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Author: Subject: 2016 Mass Shooting Thread
williamssl
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 06:09 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chretienbabacool
but I see you criticizing the anti-Christianity post while ignoring Paddlefoot's anti-Muslim idiotic post and that just made me more angry. I dislike hypocrisy.


And yet I see you getting into it with folks over the Muslim comment but saying nothing about the Christian comment.

Welcome to team Hypocrisy, then. We can be co-captains.




(I don't know how this worked out for the Sabres but it certainly didn't win them a Cup)



Back to reality,
Fuck mass shootings
Fuck anyone making any argument about why people still need to be able to buy assault rifles
Fuck terrorism, including the extremist Islamic variety
Fuck hate crimes
Fuck politicizing this stuff


I'm sure I've missed a few, but that mostly sums things up I hope.





Don't Mess With Texas

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Big Bank Hank
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 06:52 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Paddlefoot,

I want you to know a few things. I am a writer as well as an instructor at a prominent university. I enjoy professional wrestling, long walks on the beach, and making fun of Willamssl's dead mother. I was born in Detroit. I love my city AND my country. Oh, and I'm a Muslim.


With that said, I have a couple questions for you if you would be willing to indulge me. Can you give us specific examples of the equivocation you refer to? Secondly, can you clarify exactly why you believe CBBC made/is making a straw man argument?

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 07:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm pretty upset here today, which explains the ranting, in a way I haven't been since 9/11, and then Sandy Hook. I'm not sure if I'm up to addressing any of this again in the next little while. Maybe after I calm down some more I'll be able to do it. Sorry, but not right away. In short though, yes, I hold the religion responsible and will continue to do so. Exactly the same if it were done by a bible-thumper. If organized atheism encouraged people to act this way, and some atheist took them up on it, then I'd feel exactly the same about organized atheism. That doesn't mean I hate every single Muslim, but you can take it to the bank that I have zero respect for any religion, or politics, that influences anyone to behave this way.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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the goon
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 08:09 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Dearest Goon:

The thing about your post that set me off was you, based on my perception, using this as an attempt to unnecessarily slam Christians. Hey let me just throw this out there and let it hang. No simple follow through like Flash easily did of "gosh I hope it wouldn't be that" or the like.

Maybe I reacted strongly to the "Christian" part and downplayed your "conservative" modifier. Maybe I have a vastly different definition of conservative Christians that doesn't extend to them being WBC-esque in their beliefs and thus even remotely pondering that this tragedy was "made less bad" by the notion of who it was targeted against.

What I will apologize for is that I, as a Christian, responded in a non-Christian-y way which I regret having done because HYPOCRISY!


Love,
me


Hey, no worries. My intent wasn't to offend or set anyone off with that comment and when I say "conservative Christians," I'm thinking of like the anti-LGBT Pat Robertsons of the world, so I didn't mean it to be a blanket statement about all Christians (and I definitely wasn't trying to make light of what happened in Orlando, but was just trying to make light of the horrible fact that there actually are people who aren't going to really care about this particular incident because homosexuals were the victims).

But regardless, I do apologize for pissing you off, I accept your apology for getting pissed off, and now we can go back to being friends again. Or at the very least, casual acquaintances on a pro wrestling message board. Either one.

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merc
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 01:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Flash,
Well said.

I'm of the opinion that terrorist strikes for radicalized Islam are easy to ID when there is coordinated planing; 9/11 for simplicity. The degree of planning takes out the crazy and lies blame at the interpretation of the religion; I'm not well enough versed on the minutia of Islam to figure out when killing infidels is accepted verbiage.

The sole gunperson that kills people for a religion slides to the crazy needing an excuse side. Hell Son of Sam heard God thru his neighbor's dog. I'm less likely to condemn a religion for these acts.

It would however be nice if the heads of Islam consistently and loudly condemned these events when their religions reputation was sullied. Perhaps that's a function of structure? Is there a Islamic equivelent of the Pope or a bishop? A local dude (dudette) isn't cutting it. Although for this tragedy, I haven't even seen one of them. Or is mainstream media ignoring the press conferences?





"I wish sarcasm was available as a font." John Stuart Mill

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Matte
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 02:43 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
It would however be nice if the heads of Islam consistently and loudly condemned these events when their religions reputation was sullied. Perhaps that's a function of structure? Is there a Islamic equivelent of the Pope or a bishop? A local dude (dudette) isn't cutting it. Although for this tragedy, I haven't even seen one of them. Or is mainstream media ignoring the press conferences?

One of multiple sources: http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Muslim-leaders-condemn-Orlando-nightclub-shooting-382627421.html

quote:
Among the religious leaders who spoke at Sunday's news conference was Nihad Awad, National Executive Director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR).

Awad said the shooting is a hate crime, "pure and simple."

"We condemn it in the strongest possible terms. It violates our principles as Americans and as Muslims," he said.

Awad said CAIR has no tolerance for extremism of any kind. He said CAIR stands with the LGBTQ community against hate crimes and discrimination and will continue to do so."

[...]

He said ISIS is an aberration to and does not speak for the Muslim community.

"They do not belong to this beautiful faith," Awad said. "They claim to, but the 1.7 billion people are united in rejecting their extremism, their interpretation , their acts and their senseless violence."






"I'm a professional. I know exactly what I'm doing." - Jeff Hardy

Ultimate Finishing Move Showdown

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merc
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 03:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Thanks Matte. But Nihad Awad is not a religious figure. He has been a paid talking head going back to 9/11 at least. His job is to help the Muslim people live in peace in the USA, and help the American people realize the value of Muslims contributions to the community at large. He is a Muslim.

If I hired...Janerd... to speak for Christians and came up with the Christian - Islam Coalition ( CIC ) would you accept his voice as leadership when the Executive Director of CIC GIF'd the world?

I wouldn't (and I hired him!)

ETA: in reading his comments there is no reason his words should resonate louder that ISIS leaders...except that political leaders want them to.

Where are the clerics and imams? Sunni or Shia?

There were ZERO on the morning shows I watched. That silence is deafening.

[Edited on 6-13-2016 by merc]





"I wish sarcasm was available as a font." John Stuart Mill

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janerd75
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 06:39 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
If I hired...Janerd... to speak for Christians and came up with the Christian - Islam Coalition ( CIC ) would you accept his voice as leadership when the Executive Director of CIC GIF'd the world?


Many thanks for your consideration to work for merCo, but I must sadly decline the offer because as a devout atheist as I don't think I would make the best advocate for Christianity.







"It will happen when it happens and not a moment before." - Me

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 10:36 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
Thanks Matte. But Nihad Awad is not a religious figure. He has been a paid talking head going back to 9/11 at least. His job is to help the Muslim people live in peace in the USA, and help the American people realize the value of Muslims contributions to the community at large. He is a Muslim.

If I hired...Janerd... to speak for Christians and came up with the Christian - Islam Coalition ( CIC ) would you accept his voice as leadership when the Executive Director of CIC GIF'd the world?

I wouldn't (and I hired him!)

ETA: in reading his comments there is no reason his words should resonate louder that ISIS leaders...except that political leaders want them to.

Where are the clerics and imams? Sunni or Shia?

There were ZERO on the morning shows I watched. That silence is deafening.

[Edited on 6-13-2016 by merc]


http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/12/colorado-muslim-leaders-denounce-orlando-shooter-condemn-hate-violence/

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/06/13/christian-muslim-hindu-buddhist-and-jewish-leaders-unite-to-condemn-orlando-shootings/

As for others....maybe they are fasting and otherwise observing Ramadan?

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BBMN
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 11:12 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I can't wait until the year 2080 when we are all light brown skinned, transgendered, pansexual atheistic egalitarians.
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Flash
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 11:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
And vegans...
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janerd75
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posted on 6-13-2016 at 11:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BBMN
I can't wait until the year 2080 when we are all light brown skinned, transgendered, pansexual atheistic egalitarians.


So you're throwing in with the Goobacks, huh? Typical.





"It will happen when it happens and not a moment before." - Me

Catch-As-Catch-Can: The Non-Specific Wrestling Thread

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BBMN
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posted on 6-14-2016 at 04:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Orlando Shooting Debate: Sky News Press - Watch this...



Thoughts withheld for now...

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salmonjunkie
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posted on 6-14-2016 at 05:15 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
This may have nothing to do with extreme Muslimism and everything to do with self-hating bigotry and yelling out ISIS as a scapegoat or something.

http://gawker.com/multiple-people-say-the-orlando-shooter-was-gay-1781932976

http://gawker.com/orlando-shooter-was-reportedly-a-regular-at-pulse-and-h-1781920316

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Flash
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posted on 6-15-2016 at 02:28 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Still a horrendous act of violence; but with this new bit of info I'm kind of curious what the reaction on this goes to...

I mean let's run with the idea that this was a self-hating gay man who committed this crime instead of an outsider to the LGBT community with a religious spin put on his actions.

I think the simply fact is that in as much as I said I don't want to blame his faith for this, his (possible) confused feelings about his sense of identity didn't happen in a vacuum either. In short I don't think you can pin this down to any one reason.

Does this act of violence coming from a gay man perpetrated onto the patrons of a gay nightclub change things? Like if a white man shot up a black church there's overtones of it being a hate crime, but if a black man shot up a black church is it just a crime. Are we talking about the same type of media coverage, and change that might come out of such chaos.

I think it does (a bit), but if anything it reinforces the need to create safer spaces, and offer help and counselling to those who are wrestling with identity issues. To create more acceptance in our culture so that above all else people can accept themselves.

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merc
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posted on 6-15-2016 at 03:07 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
BFG Thanks for make my point more eloquently than I did. 👍🏽

It's interesting that ISIS/ISIL is taking credit according to the Nevada report, but the killers family is now downplaying the Terrorist component.

I guess the question is would you rather your kid be a homophobic mass murderer or the most effective single shooter terrorist in US History?

That British talk show ... Wow.





"I wish sarcasm was available as a font." John Stuart Mill

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BBMN
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posted on 6-17-2016 at 02:43 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Like if a white man shot up a black church there's overtones of it being a hate crime, but if a black man shot up a black church is it just a crime. Are we talking about the same type of media coverage, and change that might come out of such chaos.


A big issue with this incident is that he declared allegiance to ISIS during the attack. Yea, that's terrorism. And as you said, even if he was gay, his motives can still be based in religion. It's possible he wrestled with his sexuality for most of his life, and how that is viewed by his apparently religious father.



Also,

http://jezebel.com/marines-under-investigation-for-allegedly-threatening-t-1782133351



"Two marines are under investigation for uploading a photo to social media in which they allegedly threatened to attack gay bars�all less than a week after the shooting at the Pulse gay nightclub in Orlando, which has been deemed the worst mass shooting by a single gunman in U.S. history.

The Marine Corp members reportedly responsible for the post belong to the I Marine Expenditionary Force (I MEF), which is headquartered at Camp Pendleton in San Diego County."






"Put the chicken wings down n come to Jihad bro."

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merc
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posted on 6-18-2016 at 12:03 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Interesting that the assumption is the marine plans to do damage. The LGTG world is running wild with pro gun stuff. My nephew (he's gay) hit me up with a Facebook link that is all guns and LGBTG hug fests. - no pun coming.

This is going to be an interesting clash of two traditionally left of center worlds.

https://youtu.be/xLqkizGtFo0?t=11m59s

*needs popcorn*

[Edited on 6-17-2016 by merc]





"I wish sarcasm was available as a font." John Stuart Mill

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BBMN
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posted on 6-18-2016 at 02:54 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Assumption?

"The post also promised that �Orlando was long overdue,� and that San Diego, the city near where the suspects were based, was �next,� according to The Marine Corps Times."

That's a direct and overt threat.

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merc
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posted on 7-6-2016 at 12:31 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think this gets posted here...or maybe in the NRA Thread? Not sure...


Did you all read about the SC Nightclub shooting last week?

http://kfor.com/2016/06/30/shooter-strikes-3-in-south-carolina-nightclub-stopped-by-concealed-carrier/

There are more detailed reports, but surprisingly most are on pro gun websites.





"I wish sarcasm was available as a font." John Stuart Mill

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bopol
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posted on 7-6-2016 at 12:51 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
I think this gets posted here...or maybe in the NRA Thread? Not sure...


Did you all read about the SC Nightclub shooting last week?

http://kfor.com/2016/06/30/shooter-strikes-3-in-south-carolina-nightclub-stopped-by-concealed-carrier/

There are more detailed reports, but surprisingly most are on pro gun websites.


So, the NRA is wrong about not thinking there should be guns in bars?

�No one thinks that people should go into a nightclub drinking and carrying firearms,� said NRA lobbyist Chris Cox. �That defies common sense. It also defies the law.�





I only signed up so I can read the forum.

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BBMN
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posted on 7-8-2016 at 06:21 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
^^^

Came across a claim that only like a dozen times a year does this actually happen (good guy with gun stops bad guy with gun.) Not sure if it's true, but if it's remotely close than it's very telling.

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BBMN
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posted on 7-8-2016 at 06:29 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Officers Ambushed in Dallas

Holy shit...




Possibly two snipers working in unison...





"Put the chicken wings down n come to Jihad bro."

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BBMN
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posted on 7-8-2016 at 06:37 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Congressman Joe Walsh Weighs In

And a member of Congress just threatened to kill the president.

FOR FUCKS SAKE.

BBMN has attached this image:






"Put the chicken wings down n come to Jihad bro."

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CCharger
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posted on 7-8-2016 at 03:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
By "Real America", I assume he means white, Christian men?

The legally elected president of the United States and legal citizens exercising their legal right to free speech are not "Real Americans" or part of "Real America"?





"She was warned. She was given an explanation. Nevertheless, she persisted."

"The powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned."
--- Stephen Miller, Trump senior White House advisor, Feb. 12, 2017

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