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Author: Subject: RAW - August 9th, 2004
Slade
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 02:28 PM Edit Post
RAW - August 9th, 2004

I liked the show. My comments on it:

- Thank God for Randy Orton. He put an end to the stupid Diva Search crap at the beginning of the show. However, I am disappointed that there was more Diva Search crap later. I was even more disappointed when the current RAW Divas did not beat the snot out of the Diva Search contestants during the weekly "Bikini Elimination Showdown." That is what I thought Trish had planned from the moment she was able to round up the troops earlier in the show.

- Kane fuckin' rules! Kane is going to make a great husband and father. I would have been in Matt Hardy's corner half a year ago, but he has lost his Mattitude, and that I do not like. Losing his Mattitude also explains why he is going to lose at Summerslam.

- Jericho versus Edge was the match of the night.

- I hope that after last night all of the Benoit fanboys that keep complaining about how much of a wussy champion he has been will quit their complaining. He owned Evolution last night, all by himself. If that does not tell you that the WWE stands behind the current World Champion, then nothing will (even though he is going to lose at Summerslam because Randy Orton is awesome and Chris Benoit is not).





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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outback jack
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 04:13 PM Edit Post
"This guy isn't much of a wrestler. He's not much of a wrestler at all. What a loser!"

My kid's comments about the Randullard. No coaching from me, I swear.






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Endo
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 04:19 PM Edit Post
There was diva search stuff? and a Matt-Kane-Lita segment? I must have skipped channels for that part

The Edge-Jericho match ruled all sorts of ass. Great match, fairly clean finish, and just enough asshole from Jericho to keep him and edge from going on either side of the face-heel line before Summerslam.

I loved JR trying his best to sell the Orton Chinlock of Hideous Discomfort. "Benoit's face is turning bright red!" It was a nice little one-man show for Benoit, and to Orton's credit he did kill the first diva segment early and was pretty coherent in his "date with destiny." Moment.

Oh, and HHH, next time try to take only about 15 to 20 seconds to catch up with the rest of the world, K?





"Why do you watch that? It's fake! IT'S FAKE!!" - My mother
"I know." - Me

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masterofpigeons
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 04:25 PM Edit Post
Way to kill off whatever credibility was left in the women's division. Oh yes, all of their blood-rivalries and head shavings can be put aside for one thing... and one thing only...

DODGEBALL! YEAH!!!!

Morons.

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ConcreteTG
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 05:04 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slade
I am disappointed that there was more Diva Search crap later. I was even more disappointed when the current RAW Divas did not beat the snot out of the Diva Search contestants during the weekly "Bikini Elimination Showdown." That is what I thought Trish had planned from the moment she was able to round up the troops earlier in the show.


I was there, and saving up my Joey Styles "CATFIGHT" screech for it. The REAL Divas could have kicked the holy hell out of the wannabes and leave as faces in MY book.

I did dig in the opening segment Benoit's thing about "the footage of Orton tapping out". Who says the Wolverine can't be clever?

quote:

- Kane fuckin' rules! Kane is going to make a great husband and father. I would have been in Matt Hardy's corner half a year ago, but he has lost his Mattitude, and that I do not like.


So Much for Lita's claims about Matt being more of a man than Kane.... can we get Bischoff to be the Justice of the Peace? Or Undertaker as the Best (dead)man?

quote:

- Jericho versus Edge was the match of the night.


Easily - tho I wonder what they were trying to do when Batista clobbered Edge and Jericho just....left. Jericho's not going heel already, Edge is tweener, so did Jericho leave cause he doesn't want DAVE to SMASH him? Or does he really think the extracurriculars are gonna tire Batista out?

It could be that they're trying to do a Rock/Y2J vibe from a couple of years ago. Anyone?

quote:

- I hope that after last night all of the Benoit fanboys that keep complaining about how much of a wussy champion he has been will quit their complaining. He owned Evolution last night, all by himself. If that does not tell you that the WWE stands behind the current World Champion, then nothing will (even though he is going to lose at Summerslam because Randy Orton is awesome and Chris Benoit is not).


The mere fact that WWE is going to stand behind their world champion is why Orton is going to LOSE at summerslam.

Randy Orton may have all the potential in the world, but "Potential" puts him with A-train and Test. He is NOT ready for being a World Champion and there is a minority that honestly believe that putting the belt on Orton is going to be a good thing.

We're putting the belt on a man who sells his own headlock? The man whose holds are merely that - him holding you?

I saw Benoit/Orton at a house show Sunday night. When Benoit put you in an armbar, he looked ready to twist it off. When Orton did it, there was no tensing in his muscles to even suggest he was exerting effort.

I've already said it multiple times, and I will say it again. Randy Orton is not World Champion material.... but at least now I will say "not yet" instead of "never".

He HAS improved, but the belt on Orton is still the wrong call at this juncture.






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promoter2003
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 05:15 PM Edit Post
I know from last night's raw I got no inkling whatsoever that Orton has a chance of winning which in itself could mean he IS winning. I don't know I was kind of digging Orton going over just for the surprise and taking of a chance, but he isn't ready. It could be anti-climactic and it shouldn't be if it's his first world title. It really isn't built up well to see Orton carrying the strap around. Hell, the focus was on HHH/Eugene. If anything, hopefully whatever they go with it works out for the best.
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Froggie
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 05:27 PM Edit Post
Pretty good show last night...best matches were Edge v Jericho, and the main event handicap match. Also, I gotta commend WWE for their usage of Benoit last night...it was brilliant! He didn't speak for very long, but when he did, he looked very intense and really came across looking like a million bucks.

Although I don't want Benoit to lose the title, I don't mind of Orton takes it. Unlike Bradshaw, Orton is very young and has a strong upside, and they actually have some long term plans for him as the big rumoured match for him is his vs. Hunter at WrestleMania 21 for Evolution supremecy.

However, no matter what happens, the match between Orton and Benoit should be excellent. Can't wait for Sunday!!

Thumbs up

-Froggie





"...Best There Ever Will Be!!"
-When WWE jobbed first time WWE World Heavyweight Champion Christian out to Randy Orton and turned him heel when he (Christian) was arguably the most over babyface on the roster and having great matches with everyone on the card, it was at that exact moment that WWE jumped the shark!!

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 06:13 PM Edit Post
Jericho left because he's a dick, that's why his character is great. He can be a face and still do shit like that.





THE CHAMP

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 06:15 PM Edit Post
You know what the best part of last night was? Benoit cutting his 2nd REALLY good promo of the same freaking RAW. He just looked like gold all around.

Say what you will about Benoit losing this Sunday...the man has cemented his place as not only this year's wrestler of the year...but has joined the Main Event Club (ie, guys Triple H will lose to).






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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 06:30 PM Edit Post
....although not cleanly one on one.





THE CHAMP

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blackdragon
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 07:25 PM Edit Post
Call me goofy, but I couldn't help but laugh at how HHH manhandled the guy sitting in the "steel chair of doom" last night. Most people push him down, or fling him to the side, but not HHH. That wonderful bastard literally heaved that unfortunate bastard into the fuckin' crowd. That, my friends, is true physical comedy.

Jericho's a dick, and a smart one at that. It wasn't so much that Batista was exerting himself this close to a pay-per-view, rather than Batista not exerting the "clothesline of instant concussion" on Jericho.





http://blogjob.com/geeksmarksandnerds/

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 09:56 PM Edit Post
There is something really incredibly insanely stupid about Trish gathering up all the divas, uniting them and then leaving us to sit back and contemplate things like a strike or a beatdown or even some kind of multi (wo)man tag match... and then have her reveal that her master plan was dodgeball. I think the only thing as stupid as that was the image of Jazz lightely pegging the Divas with a dodgeball.

Is the WWE REALLY that desperate to get in on mainstream fads that they decided they NEEDED to have a dodgeball match?





He smiled.

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doublee
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 10:37 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez

Is the WWE REALLY that desperate to get in on mainstream fads that they decided they NEEDED to have a dodgeball match?


Yes, yes they are. Nothing says PPV buyrates like a good old fashioned dodgeball game. The only thing that could make this remotely entertaining is if some of the Divas get beaned in the head and start bleeding profusely. I have to say that I was gravely disappointed when the contestants did not get a beat down.

I read the snippet in Rick's column about a reader who emailed him about a Hogan interview the reader had the opportunity to do. Hogan was quoted as saying that Vince has turned the product into a really bad reality show. You know I can't help but agree somewhat that RAW seems to be headed in that direction. Between the Diva search and the whole Kane/Matt/Lita melodrama. I fear that the Diva Search could be the tip of the iceberg in terms of moving more towards reality programming.





<-- If 'ya ain't down with that Bart's got two words for 'ya...

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gobbledygooker
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posted on 8-10-2004 at 11:47 PM Edit Post
I think the buy rate may have dropped by a couple hundred thousand with the announcement of the dodgeball game. I know it killed my already mild interest in the PPV. What drugs are the creative team on and can I have some?
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Lorraine
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 12:26 AM Edit Post
If, at Summerslam, Jazz goes Great Santini on the Diva Hopefuls, it make having endured the ice cream segment almost worth it.
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SuperRob
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 01:58 AM Edit Post
Well, I didn't think Benoit's promo was all that solid. I'm for the man saying as little as possible, because when he stumbles over saying his own nickname (Wolverine), he loses some credibility.

Also, when Trish rounded up the rest of the Divas, I figured that they were going to stage a walkout. The "Diva Dodgeball" idea just sunk the whole thing even lower.

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DMMsuperstarsalazar
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 04:36 AM Edit Post
[Edited on 8-11-2004 by ModSquad]






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ModSquad
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 04:58 AM Edit Post
Why is that post edited?

BECAUSE IT'S EXACT TWIN IS ON WRESTLELINE.

UNLESS YOUR NAME IS MADIQ, DO NOT POST THE SAME COMMENTS ON MULTIPLE MESSAGE BOARDS. PICK ONE.





"The moment that The Rick tells me that I am in the wrong then I will stop. And since I have 10 years of reading his work under my belt I feel fairly confident that he won't since he is a proponent of thinking differently. Save the threats."

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promoter2003
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 05:18 AM Edit Post
In what has to be a scary sign for the company leading into this weekend’s PPV, last night's edition of Raw did a 3.2 cable rating, with a 5 share, off of hours of 3.1 and 3.2. That is the lowest non-major holiday rating for the show since November 11, 2002 (which was Veterans Day). It’s the lowest non-holiday number since February 23, 1998, when the show did a 3.2. The number is so low part of me wonders if there was an error at Nielsen Media Research.

In other ratings news, Heat did a 0.9 cable rating, with a 1.8 share.

The WWE Experience did a 0.4 cable rating, with a 1.3 share.

Velocity also did a 0.4 cable rating, but with a 1.0 share.

There is no other way to say it other than these numbers are not pretty, especially leading into the company's biggest PPV of the summer.

Credit: pwinsider.com

Maybe The Rick was right all along Vinman. People do not want to watch crap

Kane/Lita/Hardy and the Diva Search is taking its toll I think. Don't forget the overkill of Eugene.

[Edited on 8-11-2004 by promoter2003]

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Slade
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 05:12 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by ConcreteTG
We're putting the belt on a man who sells his own headlock? The man whose holds are merely that - him holding you?

I saw Benoit/Orton at a house show Sunday night. When Benoit put you in an armbar, he looked ready to twist it off. When Orton did it, there was no tensing in his muscles to even suggest he was exerting effort.


Talk about your double standards!

So first you criticize Randy Orton for 'selling his own headlocks' and then you criticize him for not selling his own armbars. What do you want from him? I must ask you, why is it perfectly fine for Chris Benoit to tense his muscles and try to sell you on the fact that he wants to rip a guy's arm off, but yet it is the worst atrocity in wrestling history when Randy Orton tenses his muscles and tries to sell us on the fact that he wants to pop somebody's head right off of their shoulders? As far as I am concerned, neither act is better than the other. Either they both suck for selling their own moves or they are both phenomenal for making you believe that they really want to destroy their opponent.

Moreover, according to you, Orton's holds are 'merely holds,' yet you would give us the impression that Benoit's holds are 'something more than just a hold'. I am sorry, but it does not work that way. Holds are holds: a headlock is a hold just as much as an armbar is a hold. Both wrestlers use holds. Orton's holds are all directed towards the neck. His moveset includes various headlocks, chinlocks, neckbreakers, and a pretty dropkick meant to do damage to the neck and head, all of which set up his opponent for the RKO, which is a faceplant that exerts does damage to the face and neck. Benoit's holds may be more varied, but they include several holds directed at the arms and shoulders. His moveset includes various armbars, a German suplex, shoulderbreaker and swandive headbutt, all of which do damage to the shoulder to set up his opponent for the Crossface Crippler, which is meant to tear the shoulder apart. As far as I can tell neither man is more of a technical wizard than the other in this regard. They pick their bodypart and go to town, doing damage to it throughout the course of their matches.

Of course, this all serves to tell me that you just like to slander Orton and try to impress upon others that he is a shitty wrestler, not because he is, rather because you just do not care for his persona. In reality, Orton is no better or worse than Benoit when judging from a pure wrestling standpoint. He does everything that a technical wrestling mastermind should. It just so happens that he attacks the head/neck rather than a limb.

And I will readily admit that Benoit, from a pure wrestling standpoint, is a good wrestler. In fact, I enjoy watching his matches. When Benoit hits my television screen I know that, more often than not, I am in for a good show. The same goes for Orton. He is a good wrestler and I know that when he hits my televisions screen that I am in for a good show. The only difference between the two is that I like Orton's persona and want him to win his matches, while Benoit's persona sucks and want him to lose his matches.

I would posit that your extremely hatred of Randy Orton is based upon the fact that you dislike the character, however unlike me, you are either unable or unwilling to separate the character from the wrestler. If I am incorrect in making this assertion, please let me know. However, if I am correct, I would ask that you give the 'Orton cannot wrestle' bullshit a rest and quit holding him to a greater standard of technical wrestling ability than you do Chris Benoit.





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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castlevania
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 06:35 PM Edit Post
Edge/Jericho had a good match but they still haven't given us a reason to care about Edge. Hopefully he drops the belt at SS and vanishes untill they can think of a good gimmick for him.





Down here it's our time!

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ConcreteTG
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posted on 8-11-2004 at 08:00 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slade

So first you criticize Randy Orton for 'selling his own headlocks' and then you criticize him for not selling his own armbars. What do you want from him? I must ask you, why is it perfectly fine for Chris Benoit to tense his muscles and try to sell you on the fact that he wants to rip a guy's arm off, but yet it is the worst atrocity in wrestling history when Randy Orton tenses his muscles and tries to sell us on the fact that he wants to pop somebody's head right off of their shoulders? As far as I am concerned, neither act is better than the other. Either they both suck for selling their own moves or they are both phenomenal for making you believe that they really want to destroy their opponent.


I'm simply pointing out that when Orton bounces around on his butt to make his headlock look more intense, it looks ridiculous and unbelieveable. When Benoit puts someone in a headlock he tenses his muscles and grits his teeth and looks intense and makes you think he's gonna pop a guy's head off. Is that more clear for you?

quote:

Of course, this all serves to tell me that you just like to slander Orton and try to impress upon others that he is a shitty wrestler, not because he is, rather because you just do not care for his persona.


Incorrect - I dislike him because he wrestles poorly. I know he's a heel, I know I'm supposed to hate him. But I will at least respect a good heel. Orton is probably the biggest bastard on the roster next to Triple H. However, when I see him not performing to the standard that has been set for him by the WWE (Main event) then I truly disapprove.

Also, his conduct toward fans may be heelish, but they borderline on sexual harassment. I have several female friends who have dealt with him in person, and he makes outlandish requests to embarass and humiliate them. This might be toeing the "JBL" line, but these "requests" are inappropriate, even off-camera and outside the arena. If that constitutes him just "staying in character" then he should be stick to being like other heels and not even bother interacting with fans at that level.

quote:

Orton is a good wrestler and I know that when he hits my televisions screen that I am in for a good show. The only difference between the two is that I like Orton's persona and want him to win his matches, while Benoit's persona sucks and want him to lose his matches.


That is your opinion, as mine is the reverse. Respect it and we'll move on.

quote:

I would posit that your extremely hatred of Randy Orton is based upon the fact that you dislike the character, however unlike me, you are either unable or unwilling to separate the character from the wrestler. If I am incorrect in making this assertion, please let me know.


See Above.

quote:

However, if I am correct, I would ask that you give the 'Orton cannot wrestle' bullshit a rest and quit holding him to a greater standard of technical wrestling ability than you do Chris Benoit.


I'm sorry you feel that way. But after seeing him make mistake after mistake, whether in promos, using a turnbuckle, or a move, I really believe the E is backing the wrong guy for top heel.

But since you insist on foisting your opinions of your man-love for Mr. Orton III on me, please go to Singled Out and fill me in on WHAT you like so much about him that makes him ME material.

[Edited on 8-11-2004 by ConcreteTG]






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Slade
The Immortal One






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posted on 8-12-2004 at 02:41 PM Edit Post
Jeb:

1. Thank you.
2. You make me blush.
3. Your fan mail is still appreciated after months and months and months and does not come off like the bitter, yet somewhat drôle, musings of an intensely jealous person.
4. No, it is not. In fact, my parents would be pleased to acknowledge that they have blessed me with flawless genes.
5. If you try really hard, someday you too can be as intolerable as I. Keep shooting for the stars, kiddo!

quote:
Originally posted by ConcreteTG
I'm simply pointing out that when Orton bounces around on his butt to make his headlock look more intense, it looks ridiculous and unbelieveable. When Benoit puts someone in a headlock he tenses his muscles and grits his teeth and looks intense and makes you think he's gonna pop a guy's head off. Is that more clear for you?


I disagree with you about Orton looking ridiculous and unbelievable when he puts a guy in a headlock, but I do appreciate that you took the time to clarify that for me. If I understand your position correctly, it is that unlike what you said before, you have no problem with Orton selling his moves, as long as he makes it believable a la Benoit. I do not think that Benoit is that much better (if at all) than Orton in that respect, but perhaps I am missing something that you are not.

Anyhow, I respect that you like Benoit's persona, but do not care for Orton's. I take no issue with that. People like different characters for different reasons. What I was taking issue with was the impression I got that you were slandering Orton's wrestling just because you did not like his character. However, apparently that is not the case and you actually think that he does not know how to wrestle. How anybody could come to that conclusion is beyond me. I cannot count on my fingers the number of times Orton wrestled in the "Match of the Week" so far this year. Nobody could pull that off if they suffered from gross incompetence when in the ring.

quote:
Originally posted by ConcreteTG
But since you insist on foisting your opinions of your man-love for Mr. Orton III on me, please go to Singled Out and fill me in on WHAT you like so much about him that makes him ME material.


Will do, chief.





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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Froggie
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posted on 8-12-2004 at 03:18 PM Edit Post
Wow...I guess being an Orton fan gets you honourary heel status in the OO Forums(well, at least in the eyes of people like JTL and ContreteTG)!!

Its unbelievable how much Orton gets slammed in these forums. If he screws up a grammatical phrase, it becomes an International Incident for the person who reviews RAW at the OO main page. If he doesn't do that, then he'll get ridiculed for trying to put some effort into a rest hold (i.e. a reverse chinlock) and make it seem effective. The bottom line is Orton can do no right!! He'll get slammed for the slightest thing he does wrong, and I think much of this has to do with the article Jeb wrote on him.

Now personally, I haven't read the article as I personally don't buy the story...just my opinion. However, it appears some others (i.e. ConcreteTG) have, and they're basing their entire opinion of him from that one article!

Orton isn't a bad wrestler. Is he a bit green? Yes. Will he improve?? I think he will! His promos are very strong, and he works hard in the ring. I think hes shown he has some grasp of ring psychology.

Many people are saying that Orton isn't ready to hold the big belt. However, people also said the same thing about Rocky and Hunter when they had their first title runs! Personally, I hope they let the feud with Benoit & Orton go for a month or two more, but if they put the belt on him this Sunday, it's all good...I think he'll do well with it.

In closing, I say take it easy on Young Randall. Hes may be a bit young and a bit green, but I believe he has the potential to become one of the next "breakout superstars" of the Fed

-Froggie





"...Best There Ever Will Be!!"
-When WWE jobbed first time WWE World Heavyweight Champion Christian out to Randy Orton and turned him heel when he (Christian) was arguably the most over babyface on the roster and having great matches with everyone on the card, it was at that exact moment that WWE jumped the shark!!

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-12-2004 at 03:29 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Froggie
If he screws up a grammatical phrase, it becomes an International Incident for the person who reviews RAW at the OO main page.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

I find it just amazing that the guy who owns, runs, and basically IS OnlineOnslaught seems to be nameless to you. Like seriously, how the fuck does that happen?






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