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Author: Subject: Raw 7/5 in Winnipeg
crossface99
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 04:20 AM Edit Post
Raw 7/5 in Winnipeg

Thoughts?

It pisses me off that Benoit only appears at the end and hasn't been developed as a character since he became champ. That aside, this was a pretty entertaining show. I love the HHH-Eugene relationship even if the retarded crowd couldn't resist "Eugene sucks" chants. Nice to see they're also planting the seeds of dissent in Evolution with the other three quite dubious of HHH's decision to take Eugene on board.

Edge has to seriously pick up his mic work. He sounded as forced and scripted as any first-year callup from OVW.

Very nice touch with scheming Trish using the cast to pin defenceless Nidia. By gosh, the women's champ gets mic time! This must be our yearly quota. Sick-looking kick by Victoria to Nidia while she was on the top rope. Man, can Vickishi ever get it done in the ring.

Thankfully, Kane-Batista was short and purely storyline-development fodder.

The amount of minutes wasted on this fucking diva search is unreal. Not to mention demeaning to all the Raw women (besides Stacy) who work their asses off in the ring. I think some of the contestants got more time to talk than Victoria's had in the past six months.

Jericho-Orton was nice, but boo to WWE for teasing Winnipeg with this. I understand that they couldn't have Orton drop the IC title going into Vengeance, but then why not book Jericho against someone else for a feelgood win? Is so fucking crazy to make the live crowd happy by letting their hometown boy score a win?

Speaking as a native Montrealer, I'm glad to see the anti-Quebec sentiment is alive and well in Manitoba. Classy crowd. Boo, that's right, they're French and evil, boo!

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promoter2003
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 05:02 AM Edit Post
Did anyone else know there was a ppv this weekend? I sure didn't. I didn't even know there were matches announced. For some reason that is all that really got my attention this week except for Orton/Jericho. I don't know about this Eugene stuff. It's okay, but I worry I will get very upset with Eugene all over the place soon. I found myself not really caring much about the matches to be honest. Stuff like Eugene announcing Kane/Batista made me just think the wwe brass probably does book this way without any real reason for matches. Not a bad week, but maybe that the wwe actually is selling a ppv this weekend is reall bothering me. I don't know why, but it is. Horrible job in making me want to see it. I hope Benoit doesn't lose the strap just because it comes off like a real nothing ppv. Leave it for SummerSlam at least which I gather they will, but would the wwe book two world title changes? The other rumour is actually Taker/JBL for the wwe title. Sheesh!
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SuperRob
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 05:59 AM Edit Post
The "Eugene Sucks" chants were clearly piped in. I couldn't see a single person chanting that on several reviews of the match.

As much as I hate the Kane/Lita/Matt storyline, Matt has shown a LOT of intensity, and it looks good on him.

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AKS
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 06:14 AM Edit Post
The Eugene Sucks chants were absolutely not piped in.

Benoit has been left out in the cold by WWE since they gave himthe strap. If HHH was left out in the same way, he would never have gotten over. And Benoit was not very over in Wpg, surprisingly. Edge was, though, but I agree, his promos are weak!

No problem with Orton/Jericho. Good win for Orton and heel heat as well. Would have rather seen Benoit/Jericho in the main to really light it up. But oh well...always nice to see Ric work as you never know how many more chances you'll get to see him live.

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promoter2003
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 11:47 AM Edit Post
I think the vibe of Triple H defending against Edge for SummerSlam from that promo kind of worried me. I think Benoit might job this sunday. Maybe that is what bothering me. I thought I would at least see Benoit head to Toronto as the WWE Champ. I hope I'm wrong.
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madiq
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 12:32 PM Edit Post
- It doesn't look promising in that regard; they seem to be laying foundation down for Edge-HHH and Benoit/Jericho vs. Orton/Batista.

- And I really HATE when announcers downplay the fact that Jericho is a former World Champion. That exchange over whether him winning the IC title for the umpteenth time is as prestigious as him winning that Winnipeg award was laughable.

- The Rhyno vs. La Resistance storyline could've been more effectively conveyed with the addition of a backstage skit. Not enough time for a backstage skit, you say? Pare down the Diva Search segments then.

- Admittedly, the wannabes were hot this week. I had to laugh at the California Love ripoff, though...

- Extra points to Trish for been hot, heelish, and giving a shout-out to her baby Christian.

- I gotta give it to RAW for entertaining me with MUSICAL CHAIRS. I laughed out loud twice. And there was psychology...






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fsolomon75
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 03:38 PM Edit Post
It's too bad the most entertaining part for me was the Musical Chairs opening. Gotta love Naitch stylin' and profilin' around the chairs...laugh out loud funny.

Edge's promo seemed forced and the diva search is just pointless.

It just didn't have the feel of a Raw leading up to a PPV.





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microplay_24
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 04:33 PM Edit Post
Just a few comments on the show:

I don't know, but after seeing that interview with Edge and Triple H, i immediately thought of a triple threat match for the world title at SummerSlam, between Benoit, Edge, and Triple H. The thing is, if Edge loses the Orton at Vengance for the Ic title, then how the hell should he even contend for the world title against Triple H?? He'd have to go over in some capacity, and really, it's sort of tough to figure out exactly what matches will even headline SummerSlam next month.

In terms of Benoit being left out in the cold since his title run, i'd say that's true to a certain extent, but really, there is a reason for that, i think. He hasn't done much mic work, backstage or in ring, and has just been used here and there. And though i agree he should get more time to shine, in terms of defending the championship in logical feuds, and being given time on the mic, all this is simply being taken care of by Triple H. It's obvious. Week in and week out, it's Triple H chasing Benoit, and cutting the promo. And though this doesn't help elevate Benoit or make him shine, it makes it easier for him just to do things to a minimum, by having Triple H be the one to chase his title, and do all the promos and stuff for him. But i agree, all this does not help Benoit's credibility as a world champion.

in terms of the show, i will only comment on the main event match. I thought the story of the match was told brilliantly, and really helped solidify the point they were trying to make in the first place very well, and that was having Evolution plant the seeds of dissention between Eugene and all his peers. Though the match wasn't great in terms of work rate or technicality, it was done very well in terms of telling the overall story it needed to tell.

You know, just around the time the main event tag match came on, i was thinking of the idea for RAW to just bring in all the cruiserweights from SD! and add them to th show, because Raw is just a one hour show full of complete antics, as opposed to quality wrestling. If they just brought in a few cruisers here and there like Kidman and Mysterio, i think it would have really helped the show. Who cares who these guys feud with, they would just have been great and neccessary talent on the Raw roster, to round out the show with more of a focus on wrestling, on top of the more gimmick antics seen on the show.

Overall, nothing special this week, and though the musical chairs thing was funny for a first viewing, it was fucking stupid in the long run. Mediocre show, that didn't even focus on the payperview up coming in 7 days.





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AKS
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 05:41 PM Edit Post
Edge is from Toronto. they could be going for that hometown boy thing in Summerslam. I hope not though. Edge was terrible on the mic last night. He got a great initial pop though, but his push has been all overt the map.

My feeling is HHH wins the title this week and rdrops it back to Benoit at Summerslam. But if they want Edge in the Summerlsam main event, I say make it a triple threat with Benoit retaining this week. That way the title isn't passed around. But would WWE really go from one Canadian to another so soon?

Benoit's title reign has been a failure. They have done nothign with him, other then just him the title. He wasn;t even very over last night which is shocking considering it was a white hot Canadian crowd.

A better main last night would have been Jericho/Benoit. The crowd was a little flat and exhausted by the main event, after the Jericho/Orton match and all the Diva seach BS.

It really wasn;t a great show. It was, however, saved by Ric Flair who continues to be the absolute most entertaining guy on RAW.

a side not regarding the Eugene Sucks chants - they were huge and not piped in. It was just great storytelling from all involved in the match.

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the goon
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 06:32 PM Edit Post
I thought the begining of the show was great. It had a real "What the fuck?" vibe at first, when you saw the chairs set up in the ring along with a seemingly random group of WWE personalities. And both Flair and the Coach were golden during it.

And Jericho...man, was he over with his hometown crowd (or at least, adopted hometown). They really should have stuck him in the main event. And, as usual, WWE continues their streak of having a guy job out in his hometown. Seriously, does Vince just love to see the hometown guy lose?

What was up with the dumb finish to Jericho/Orton? Orton was in the Walls of Jericho for a good while. Then Batista distracts Jericho and Orton springs right up like he's fine, plus he is able to put his legs on the ropes for the pin. Not saying this is Orton's fault (as I'm sure that's the finish that was planned), but damn, talk about a complete no-sell for the Walls of Jericho. The guy is in it for fifteen seconds and is about to tap, and two seconds later he jumps up and is fine, showing no after affects whatsoever.

I thought Edge's promo was alright, but I don't know if he's the guy to be pushing into a main event at SummerSlam. He could definitely do a pretty solid match with Triple H, but he doesn't really seem to be over enough to warrant main-eventing SummerSlam. Since it's in Canada, why not Jericho vs. Benoit, which would be guranteed to rock. I guess the outcome Sunday will tell us more about where they're going (if Triple H wins, I'd say Triple H vs. Edge, if Benoit retains, I'd say either Triple H vs. Benoit rematch or Triple H vs. Benoit vs. Edge).

The women's title match...boring, and it showed with the crowd reaction. And is it me, or did Trish's soft spoken commentary make the match even more boring?

La Resistance needs legitimate contenders for the tag titles, oh how about...NOW.

And on to Eugene...I think WWE could be in danger of making the crowd turn on the guy, ESPECIALLY now that they've got him doing heelish things. I could almost see it being like how the crowd turned on one Rocky Maivia. They're almost at the point now where he's being focused on TOO much, and they could shoot themselves in the foot doing that. With him running around with Evolution and attacking RAW's top faces, I could easily foresee more "Eugene Sucks" chants in the coming weeks.

And seriously, what the FUCK is up with Benoit's title run? Has the guy cut a single promo since he's had the belt? Has he wrestled more than two main event world title matches on RAW since he won the belt (the only ones I can think of are against Michaels and Kane)? When your IC champion is getting more air/mic/wrestling time time than your world champ, something is wrong.

And finally, WWE has done a great job of no hype or build-up for Benoit/Triple H. Thank God they got on the right track last night and had Benoit come out and confront Triple H, say he was going to end Evolution, and...oh wait, that was Edge. Nevermind.

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AKS
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 07:29 PM Edit Post
Good points.

I truly believe HHH gets the belt back. he has to.

And Flair and Eugene seem poised to win the tag titles. There is no point to them doing the match and losing.

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microplay_24
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 07:46 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by the goon

And seriously, what the FUCK is up with Benoit's title run? Has the guy cut a single promo since he's had the belt? Has he wrestled more than two main event world title matches on RAW since he won the belt (the only ones I can think of are against Michaels and Kane)? When your IC champion is getting more air/mic/wrestling time time than your world champ, something is wrong.




That's a good point. Benoit deserves to be treated better than he has been so far, especially as a world champion. He's only been making brief appearances almost every week by the end of RAW, either to do a run in, or wrestle in a tag match main event, and /or seldomly defend his world championship. I only hope Benoit holds on to the title until SummerSlam, because that's when i feel he should lose the title, not any time before that.

As for Eugene, the thing the fed is doing right with him i think is that they are re-refreshing his character before it got too late. They took into consideration the possiblity that Eugene's character/ gimmick may grow stale soon, and they sort of modified it already, although his face run could have lasted another month before the inevitible heel turn. But in this way, the fed is keeping Eugene's gimmick fresh by teasing him as a heel, even though it may even be a tad early in doing so, but it still keeps things interesting.

They can even have Eugene play along as the confused / Triple H supporter, then have him screw Triple H's title match at SummerSlam, and finally mantain as a babyface by the end of this Evolution / Eugene angle. Then, his gimmick as a face would be re-freshed and last a little longer, until his eventual heel turn.

It will be interesting to see what will happen until SummerSlam, especially in regards to the world title picture.


[Edited on 7-6-2004 by microplay_24]





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the goon
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 08:45 PM Edit Post
Yes, I would think the bottom line with Eugene and Evolution is that SOMETHING'S got to give. Either Eugene finally realizes Triple H is a bastard or he turns fully heel, there's got to be some payoff with the angle. I would assume that payoff will probably happen at SummerSlam. I could also see him maybe accidentally screwing up Triple H, and costing him the world title. This could lead to more dissention in Evolution, as they could all say "I told ya so..." to Triple H the next night on RAW.
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promoter2003
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 09:06 PM Edit Post
Microplay's observation hit the nail on the head. I know the traditional thing about the person who gets the win on the show prior to the ppv usually loses, but the wwe has mixed things up. In February, Guerrero went over Brock in the tag match and still won at the ppv. Triple H has been getting the focus in the last few weeks of getting his title back and Benoit has just been there since the night Triple H helped him retain the title against HBK. Right now, Benoit is just there placeholding although we are forgetting that he has a new DVD coming out and maybe they will want to pimp that with him as world champion. Anyone think that the company may do Eugene/Triple H at SummerSlam? Their reasoning may be that Eugene is the hot face on the roster.
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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 10:32 PM Edit Post
Does nobody remember Benoit's "you tapped out" promo that he cut on Triple H right after Mania? Really, folks, the Benoit push doesn't need more mic time...it needs the fans to remember to chant "you tapped out" at Triple H over and oiver again.

What Benoit needs is to have confrontations where he is cut off by a heelbefore he can speak. A fight brakes out resulting in Benoit making the heel tap, and then the announcers and backstage interviewers remind both the heel and the fans at home that the heel trying to beat Benoit tapped out to the Crippler Crossface.

"You Tapped Out!!!" is fun to chant and completely works for the silent killer role that Benoit is best suited at. Plus, it makes it mean more when he does cut a slow and deliberate (not to mention obviosly scripted to us "smart fans") promo.

And here's the thing...heading into the PPV you needed to have Edge, Jericho, and Benoit all face Evolution WITHOUT giving away the matches for Vengance. If anything, I think the problem is that Jericho should be used in the role the WWE has given Edge.

Last thought...Nidia has felt the power of the punch!!!

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FusionFistCutter
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 10:44 PM Edit Post
The best thing to do would have Eugene go full out heel at the PPV, costing Benoit the title to HHH, and then revealing he's not mentally challenged at all.

The next night, HHH comes out with Evo. (w/o Eugene), and Randy, Batista, and Flair all marvel at his genius as he finally introduces Eugene, who comes out totally cleaned up in a suit, hair slicked back, just looking the part of Evolution member. Then he just cuts a wicked promo about all the suckers in the WWE and how they all bit hook line and sinker his role as a simpleton. Then we get a Benoit/Eugene I cannot spell 'feud' for a while, before Benoit gets his rematch at SS.

I know everyone will groan at this scenario, but shit, Eugene CAN wrestle. I think he and Benoit could put on a better match then HHH/Benoit, just for the simple fact it's new and fresh.





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promoter2003
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 11:00 PM Edit Post
FFC, that is exactly how I think this sunday will play out. Edge/Trips and Benoit/Eugene for SummerSlam perhaps. I also think people forgot about the promos Benoit did in Calgary and so on during his reign. Those were great. It's just been the last month or so, they have cut back on Benoit and focused more on Eugene and Triple H which makes me think they are setting us up for the swerve. Anyone else thinks when Triple H says he knows what he's doing isn't talking about winning the world title?
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fsolomon75
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 11:05 PM Edit Post
Great idea...FFC...reminds me a lot of The Usual Suspects with Eugene as Keyzer Soze.





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FusionFistCutter
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 11:09 PM Edit Post
Totally Solomon, although now that I've said it, you can repeat it to your friends at the PPV and you'll look like a genius and/or ruin the swerve like I always do with my friends!

I blame Rick for being right about 90% of the time with his predictions. I also blame myself for repeating them to people that don't want to hear them.


Another thought I had to expand on that is that Eugene is being pushed to the moon, and can't you guys just see what him coming out and exposing his last 4 months of hijinx as an act to help HHH would do for his character? He'd EXPLODE in popularity with the heel-lovers, and EXPLODE in hatred with the face-lovers. He could really be the next huge star if the E would do this right, I think he's got the look and skills where people in the coming years would be like "man, remember when Eugene played a fucking retard but it turned out he was playing us all, THAT was an awesome angle". Which I think it would. The E's gotta jump on that tho, because if they wanna stick with the simpleton gimmick, it's gonna get stale REAL quick with the fans, and the talent in the back HAS to have reservations about letting him go over on them, especially the older guys.

PULL THE TRIGGER VINCE!

[Edited on 7-6-2004 by FusionFistCutter]





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promoter2003
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posted on 7-6-2004 at 11:18 PM Edit Post
I usually stay quiet such things unless my friends try to act "smarter' than me and I spoil it. I think this is the best way to go to be honest. More things to point to this theory. I hope I don't give the wwe too much credit, but this storyline has a lot of possibilites. I still believe there is a swerve here. Eugene says Trips is his favourite wrestler. Trips has taken him into Evolution, while Orton seems the most upset about the move. Eugene befriends Benoit. Eugene befriends The Rock who had words exchanged with Randy Orton. The Rock is a major rival of Triple H. It's just not too obvious which is good. The signs are there. All the other scenarios are predictable and short-sighted imo. The little problems within Evolution also point to this. Orton can be pissed that the cerebral assassin didn't let him in on the plan. It furthers the division in Evolution. Eugene would also be like his favourite wrestler as he is a cerebral assasin who fooled other wrestlers and the fans.

[Edited on 7-6-2004 by promoter2003]

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benoitbrokemyneck
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posted on 7-7-2004 at 12:57 AM Edit Post
Its a solid story FFC, and would work pretty well. But I just can't stomach the thought of Benoit losing his belt because of "retard shenanigans"... I'm getting a lil upset stomach just thinking about it. I want him to hold the belt until somebody beats him in a five star match up... like HBK or Jericho... But that would mean not dropping the ball with him, which they clearly have. So sad

But its still a good idea.





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posted on 7-7-2004 at 01:07 AM Edit Post
I think we could all agree that such a swerve with Eugene going "straight" for the most part would warrant a Benoit title drop to further the impact of such a dramatic turn of events. A build up to a Benoit/Eugene match could whet the appetite leading up to your 5 star matchup with Benoit/HHH (which we know they could put on) with Benoit winning in grand fashion. Boom, we've got a crazy swerve that leads to a new non-retarded character and member of Evolution, and the ever popular babyface chasing heel champion story. All to play out over a few months time.





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microplay_24
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posted on 7-7-2004 at 05:37 AM Edit Post
Some great points above.

You know, if all things play out logically, then I think Eugene’s eventual turn will break up Evolution…And I didn’t specify which turn…It could be heel or face. See, if Benoit goes on to lose to Triple H at Vengance, then you can throw in the story that Eugene cost Benoit the title at the payperview, whichever way he did it. Then, the following night on RAW, Triple H brings out Evolution along with Eugene, and convinces everyone, especially and more importantly Evolution, that Eugene is the ‘real deal’ as the new member of Evolution. Then, come SummerSlam, Eugene continues to interfere in all or any of the other Evolution members’ matches, helping them win their matches. And then, by the world title match, throw in either a re-match with Benoit, or, for current storyline purposes, Edge against Triple H, and have Eugene actually cost Triple H the title here. Then, you have Triple H cause dissention in Evolution, as he turns on Eugene for his title loss, but the rest of Evolution attack Triple H for being selfish, and for attacking the guy who helped them attain all their victories.

From there, you can either have all members of Evolution turn face, or only have Triple H turn face himself. Either way, Edge wins the world title at SummerSlam, Evolution does break up as Edge promises, and current storylines unfold more logically.

If an angle like this were to have happened 15 years ago, it would have easily taken well over 6 months to unfold. But being it’s today’s product, I think a lot can happen in a short amount of time.

Have Evolution turn at SummerSlam, with one simple mistake by Eugene in the world title match, and that’s how you get the eventual break up of Evolution.


[Edited on 7-7-2004 by microplay_24]





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posted on 7-7-2004 at 01:02 PM Edit Post
Just my two cents on the show....

Benoit did some excellent mic work early in his title run, then let the wrestling do the talking for him. He has put on excellent title defenses (he got a good match out of KANE for crying out loud!) and has proven himself in the ring. He doesn't NEED the mic time, really, and the Fed realizes that this might be his only weak point.

I could rant about how t his is how a WWE title run should work for RVD, but I'll stick to Raw....

All the Eugene stuff seems to be the big focus of the writers, and Dinsmore has played it very well. Teasing the heel turn ever so slowly (but pushing it home with the "Evil Doc", aka HHH, gently pushing Eugene that way) makes for great television. Now I wish the writers would concentrate on the other feuds.....

Edge's promo was flat, but the look in his eyes told me he was nuts enough to be a loner against Evolution. His sadistic expression after he cold-cocked Orton (and I hope Orton got stiffed) gives me hope that Edge will take the IC belt away from Orton and walk into a triple-threat at Summerslam for a shot. Unfortunately, Edge has not had the fan backing he did before he got hurt, so I wonder if they've abandoned the possibility till year's end or next year.

With a PPV around the corner, some points in the show felt rushed and a little disjointed.

Opening with Musical Chairs, though, was well worth the rest of the show.

Jericho/Orton was brilliant - I thought it was the main event, but I was out of sorts from flying home after a Redneck holiday.

Interactions backstage with Eugene and Evolution were fun, too - but WTF? Who let BATISTA be the voice of reason????

I liked the women's match itself, I did NOT like what happened afterwards - Trish is a heel, true, but I would have liked her getting booked anyway and let her pull that crap at the PPV.

The "Handicap" main event was well done, too - minor confusion for me, when did we know that Edge cared about Eugene, knowing that he ran with Evolution? Benoit's concern, I could understand.

Here's hoping that the light card for Vengeance means 20-30min goodness from all participating.






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doublee
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posted on 7-7-2004 at 01:39 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by ConcreteTG

Here's hoping that the light card for Vengeance means 20-30min goodness from all participating.


I wouldn't count on it. Light card means more RAW Diva search promos. I would not be surprised if they have a segment where they cart all of the remaining participants out in their bikinis.





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