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Author: Subject: Ted DiBiase, his de-push and hello to the forum.
Firebreaker Chip
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posted on 5-2-2004 at 06:48 PM Edit Post
I think Bad News Brown was a heel at WM IV. So when Hart destroyed the trophy, he turned face by the fact that he was facing off against a heel. The Hart Foundation then turned face because of it I would guess and go onto face Demolition.

Towards the end of the Million Dollar Corporation, DiBiasie was able to get Sid and 1-2-3 Kid and those two were on the fast track onto the Tag Titles until Sid bailed on the promotion. The Million Dollar Corporation spent most of its time feuding w/ The Undertaker from SS '94 through I think SS '95.





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promoter2003
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posted on 5-2-2004 at 09:59 PM Edit Post
Speaking of Bad News Brown, I read Bad News Brown was promised a wwf title win in 1988 as well according to him. Would Bad News have worked as a champ? He had a good character imo. At another website there was discussion about how over Ultimate Warrior was and it's said that Warrior's reign as world champ was puzzling that he didn't succeed to the level expected. It's ironic as Dibase claims Vince reated a monster in Warrior that he ended up unable to control backstage.

The third biggest rating of all-time for wrestling is actually Hogan/Warrior teaming to go against Perfect/Genius with an 11.1 rating. The only other ratings that topped it were Hogan/Andre 2(15.1) and the pre-WM III snme where Andre and Hogan were billed in a battle royal. The conclusion with Ultimate Warrior was that he was very over anytime he was put into chasing the titles, but once he got the strap he wasn't as over. This seems to be true as if you watch Warrior defending against Rude at WM V compared to challenging Rude for the title at SummerSlam he has way more heat. I guess in some ways he was like Austin who many say was always better with the chase than with the belt.

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TarheelMike
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posted on 5-3-2004 at 09:46 PM Edit Post
I always liked Bad News. He made the best faces back in the day. He should've been brought back to be the hired muscle in the Nation of Domination rather than Godfather and Mark Henry.

As far as Bad News as champ...I don't think so. Of course, like I said, hindsight is 20/20, and you could've booked it a certain way, but I don't think he was WWF Title material. I think he could've made a badass, money-drawing, upper-midcard, IC Champ though. Perhaps Bad News shold've gotten Rude's title reign. Warrior chasing Bad News could've been pretty good.





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posted on 5-4-2004 at 12:27 AM Edit Post
Yeah, but imagine the matchesIt might have been horrendous. Bad News Brown as WWF World Champ I can't see either. Intercontinental Champion? Yes!
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posted on 5-6-2004 at 09:18 PM Edit Post
You're in the neighborhood for the Harts face turn. It's true, that at the WMIV Battle Royal, you didn't really know WHO the badguy was supposed to be. I remember my mom watching that and saying "Aww...why's he smashing his trophy? that's mean!"

A few weeks later, Bret was wrestling solo on Superstars and Jimmy Hart came down. Bret shoo'ed him away and that was sort of the official notice of "okay, he's a GOOD guy, now". Plus, Bret started wrestling the "evil" jobbers...like Horowitz, Lombardi and the like. Bret was on the cover of WWF Magazine around May/June , another indicator of being a good guy.

Funny thing about this was Anvil. Anvil was still wrestling as a heel as late as July 88. In fact, I think he wrestled heel at the big Milwaukee WrestleFest (against Lanny Poffo?). First live card I ever saw had Anvil pinning fav favorite HillBilly Jim in May 88. In mid-July, Anvil became a face by osmosis. There's an MSG match where he faces Bad News Brown around this time. When SummerSlam was announced, Anvil was a good guy. Basically, he became a face by association.

Jimmy Hart still had their contracts...but didn't hook-up with the Rougeaus until after SummerSlam. Yeah, Jimmy was in Demolition's corner at SummerSlam.

Hope that helps....a little....

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posted on 5-6-2004 at 11:18 PM Edit Post
Just a few things to add here:

On an edition of Superstars in May of 1988, I believe Bret Hart had just finished a match, when Jimmy Hart came down the aisle, and confronted Bret Hart.

There was a verbal confrontation going on at this time regarding contract negotiations between the two, when all of a sudden Jim Neidhart makes his presence coming down the aisle, only to help Bret confront and tell off Jimmy Hart.

Hart bails, and both Bret and Anvil officially come to the agreement that they were through with Jimmy Hart as their manager.

This I believe was the official face turn of the Hart Foundation, and it took place in May of 1988.





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posted on 5-8-2004 at 03:45 PM Edit Post
Just been looking at Estragand’s Awesome Website and noticed that at one main event against Hogan (with Andre as Ted’s partner and someone else, Beefcake no doubt, as Hogan’s) Dibiase entered with the belt around his waist and was announced as “The New WWF Heavyweight Champion” – does this mean that he was actually stripped of the title by Jack Tunney? If so then surely history should record he was the champ, but then maybe not. Just surprised and interested to know that he actually made an appearance as the champ.

On a side-note – Who was Jack Tunney? And when did the fed stop having an on-air president? And why was he SUCH a face? (mainly the decisions he made at WM IX are absolutely Hogan dick-sucking bad). I’d like to see President Bret Hart, Bret can be a real asshole you know and would be great as a heel president or as the default babyface he always was, they could really build a power-struggle between him and Vince too – but of course, it would never happen.





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posted on 5-9-2004 at 04:38 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Parvini
Just been looking at Estragand’s Awesome Website and noticed that at one main event against Hogan (with Andre as Ted’s partner and someone else, Beefcake no doubt, as Hogan’s) Dibiase entered with the belt around his waist and was announced as “The New WWF Heavyweight Champion” – does this mean that he was actually stripped of the title by Jack Tunney? If so then surely history should record he was the champ, but then maybe not. Just surprised and interested to know that he actually made an appearance as the champ.


Well, he was "unofficially" the champ. After the Feb 88 Main Event, Andre surrendered his newly-won title to DiBiase. This was on a Friday night. DiBiase and Andre then made a few houseshow appearances over the next week. In those, DiBiase was announced as champ and had the strap around his tummy. I think the matches were either DiBiase/Andre vs. Hogan/Bigelow or DiBiase vs. Bigelow.

The next weekend arrived (about 8 days after the Main Event) and Jack Tunney made his official announcement. Biggest announcement was that the decision of the ref was final...so Hogan was no longer the champ. The rules stated that the only way to win a title was via pinfall or submission... DiBiase didn't do that, so he wasn't the champ. Tunney then went on to state that Andre foreited his right to the title when he surrendered it. Thus, the WM4 tourney.

WWF also ran a "gag order" about the Main Event on their brodcasts during that week. Whenever Jesse Ventura or Bobby Heenan started talking about who the champ was, it was bleeped out.

For my money, the whole Hogan title swindle was the best angle of the time. In effect, it was a long, drawn-out "Dusty finish"... but it was perhaps the most memorable WWF Title change until the Montreal incident with Bret Hart.

Jack Tunney, himself, was a Canadian promoter from... Toronto (?). Think he ran out of Maple Leaf Gardens and was on good terms with the WWF. When the WWF bought out Tunney's promotion, they kept him on the payroll as their figurehead president. I stopped folllowing the WWF in 1992, but I think he continued in that role until 1994 or so. I think either Roddy Piper or Gorilla Monsoon replaced him in the on-screen "president" role.





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posted on 5-11-2004 at 10:43 AM Edit Post
This is not that related to the main topic but this thread has more side roads and twists than a Kevin Spacey flick.

I’ve been watching all the old PPVs again recently (well I haven’t got that far to be honest) and, after watching Summerslam ’88 (well Ted was in the main event after all), a few questions arose:

1. Who or what was The Baron, as seen managing The Powers of Pain when they were faces?
2. This has intrigued me since I was a kid: why was the UK edition of this video released with a “15” age certificate when all the other classic WWF tapes weren’t? Surely the sight of Miss Elizabeth’s legs isn’t enough to warrant a 15 cert. Or was it the genuinely hilarious CENSORED sequence with Brutus Beefcake and “The Outlaw” Ron Bass? It seems very odd to me and always has – the blood on Flair’s face in WM VIII didn’t have a “15” cert and neither did Sensational Sherri’s costumes from that time – a puzzler.
3. Why oh why did they go with Billy Graham as the colour man, I know Jesse was in the main event but he sort of ruined things for me… “Brother”, “Gorilla, my main man” etc. I hate face colour commentators at the best of times but Graham took the biscuit. And, as an ex-wrestler, he surely knows the difference between a SLAM and a SPLASH – and yet he got the two mixed up all night (check out his call on the Warrior-Honkey squash or on the British Bulldog’s match).

I’ve also viewed the first half of the long but very clipped Second Annual Survivor Series, only one issue here for me:

After the double-turn from Demolition and The Powers of Pain I’m sure the crowd were still cheering the Powers and booing Demolition. How did they succeed in fully turning both teams because clearly the Fuji switch didn’t work as thoroughly as was planned?





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posted on 5-11-2004 at 06:18 PM Edit Post
1- The Baron was Baron Von Raschke! He was only in the WWF for about a month...then returned to the AWA. I always suspected that, had he stuck around, they would have ran some Demos/Fuji vs. Powers/baron matches. More on the Baron at www.baronvonraschke.com
(and don't forget to visit the SHOP section for your BVR fishing lure!)

2- Total guess here..but I'm guessing they gave it a "15" rating because Liz REMOVED her skirt. Earlier in the card, Rude removed his trunks to reveal another set underneath (of Cheryl Roberts). I'm guessing the clothing removal issue could have been ruled as "stripping" and thus, the higher rating. So, if Liz had come out in a skimpier outfit and kept it on the whole time, they may have given it a milder rating.

3- Billy Graham had been doing color over the summer. I'd guess that since both Jesse and Heenan were involved in the main event, they went with Superstar. Superstar was still somewhat popular at the time... but it turned out to be his last WWF show.

[Edited on 5-11-2004 by estragand]





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posted on 5-12-2004 at 02:24 AM Edit Post
As I continue to plough my way through the WWF’s back catalogue, I noticed that I failed to mention another missed opportunity regards Dibiase – Royal Rumble ’89.

If they were going to make such a fuss over him drawing #30 and all that why not just have him win the whole thing, I mean let’s be honest it did nothing for Big John Studd.

To quote Adam’s re-revue “the crowd clap politely”.

Here’s how I would have booked it: Final four are Martel, Akeem, Dibiase and Studd… Martel gets eliminated just as it was booked, then Akeem and Dibiase eliminate Studd and Akeem eliminates himself after a big pay off… both heels get major heat and Studd finishes an honourable third.

Oh well… I guess in 1989 the faces ALWAYS had to win, no matter who they were.

PS. As a side issue, why did Hogan repeatedly do heelish things like eliminate Big Boss Man after being eliminated? As Jesse said he’s “just a bad sport”. He always got away with doing sh*t like that, I hated him then and I hate him now. Boo to you Hogan, you big yellow cheat.





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posted on 5-15-2004 at 04:32 AM Edit Post
Sorry for the double-post but I didn’t want to start a new thread for such a minor question…

How did they write Dibiase out of stories in 1993? I know his last match as vs. Ramon at the awful SS 93 but what happened after that?

The 1-2-3-Kid angle by the by must be one of the worst EVER. Didn’t they do a similar one with the jobber Barry Horowitz around that time as well. The 1-2-3 Kid/ Marty Jannety tag-team sucked so much that is was one of the (many) things that made me lose interest in wrestling in 1993.

Other minor points: Was Greg Valentine’s appearance as the “Blue Knight” at 1993 Survivor Series his last ever WWF PPV match?

What is the deal with Vader: Does he suck or is he cool? He was big in WCW and went to WWF in 1995 as far as I can tell, what happened?





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Firebreaker Chip
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posted on 5-16-2004 at 11:46 PM Edit Post
On the Vader topic it really depends on who you talk to because Vader in the WWF for the most part sucked, but WCW Vader was wicked cool. I recommend you track down anything Vader/Sting. They had a great feud that never really ended they picked up right where they left off. Vince can book big men well, but for some reasons he couldn't book Vader well at all. Plus w/ politics where Michaels didn't want to drop the strap to Vader at SS '96 instead he wanted to drop to Sid at Survivor Series '96, which made Vader look like a Luger in WWF fans eyes.
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posted on 5-22-2004 at 04:43 PM Edit Post
When Vader was rising to the top in WCW, he was downright scary. The man had a NASTY powerbomb, one that literally paralyzed a guy. That, in itself, gave his finisher instant notoriety. And he competely DESTROYED Sting to win his first title at Great American Bash '92. Classic match that featured Sting MAYBE getting five moves of offense in. Unless I'm forgetting someone, Vader was the last monster heel to have a signifigant title reign in either of the big two.

From early-92 thru his departure in late-95, he was the #1 heel in WCW. And if maybe not for the Hogan match SuperBrawl V, Vader may have never left at all. It didn't seem that he left the company on good terms. They seemed to have a face turn brewing for him but he just slipped out the back door mid-angle.

He just never caught on in the WWF. It may have been his debut feud with Yokozuna which was lame and the Shawn politics hurt him big. If I recall properly, he and Taker had a pretty good big man match at Canadian Stampede in 97, which was probably his last chance at a major title in North America.





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Parvini
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posted on 6-16-2004 at 05:46 AM Edit Post
On the subject of Vader remember he was in a team called "The Masters of the Power Bomb".

Who was his partner?

I'm guessing Sid... I could be wrong

Wasn't this angle repeated in the WWF with two similar big men forming a monster tagteam? Either Diesel and Big Show/ Taker or Taker and Kane but they also used the powerbomb a great deal and that other generic big-man move The Chokeslam.

Also, rewinding a bit to the Hart Foundation's face turn: whatever made them heel in the first place? Did they ever do any heelish acts? Or was it purely the fact that they were managed by Jimmy? I love old school wrestling logic at times. Take that Bad News Brown incident at the WM IV Battle Royal... going into that match Bad News was a heel and Bret Hart was (supposedly) a heel. So with one man smashing the other man's trophy, you'd assume that the victim would get the face turn and sympathy of the crowd no vice versa. What did they figure, that Bad News was the bigger heel so Bret turns face there? It makes little to no sense. Say if it had been the other way round: Bret wins and Bad News smashes the trophy - surely that would turn Bret face and not vice versa wouldn't it.

I've brought it up before but there are real instances where this spurious logic doesn't work and the fans show it. One such is the Powers of Pain/ Demolition doulbe turn which hinging purely on alignment with Mr. Fuji was meant to turn the Powers heel and Demolition face. But in that encounter Fuji ends up seeming like a victim (albeit a rather guily man but still, that's an old man!) and the Powers like his saviour. The face pop for the Powers is HUGE when they save Fuji, in real terms, on the night, they succeeded in turning Fuji face if anything. Obviously the fed cemented both turns in the ensueing weeks but its there to see and hear on the Second Survivor Series. Incidentally a year later you can see the full extent of both turns when at the Third Survivor Series Demolition tag up with Hogan's team and the Powers are paid off by our friend Ted (this is his thread afterall).

Another poor move was Hogan's eliminations from both the 1989 and 1992 Rumbles. He took it so badly and really comes off as a egotistical jerk. He also comes off like that when he poses for about half an hour after DQ losses or double countouts - two such instances come vs. Earthquake & Dino Bravo (90) and at WM IX after him and Brutus "The Jobber" Beefcake get themselves DQed against Money Inc. Hogan got alot of heel heat at the 1992 Rumble and again for his shitty feud with Sid that year at WMVIII.

I tend to overload sometimes so I think I'll leave it there...

Ok, just one more thing: Does anyone know why the WWF brought in Jerry Lawler and Bob Backland in 1993? It seems like a weird move to me given that they were trying to push newer stars like Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart.





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posted on 6-16-2004 at 02:08 PM Edit Post
Well, I can answer the Bob Backlund question. Vince was trying to gain back fans he lost during the Hulkamania era by bringing back the 'purity" of Backlund(All American good boy who wasn't a steroid freak). They were trying to go back to the roots of the company with stuff like raw in the Manhattan Center which was similar to holding events in small arenas for tapings before the big boom.

It was like Vince wanted to pretend that January 23, 1984-April 1992 didn't exist by having Backlund appear. Ultimate Warrior was suppose to take Hogan's spot, but he disappeared as usual a few months after re-appearing at WM 8. Hogan for all intents and purposes was done until Vince brought him back for that abysmal run in the spring of 1993. Backlund's style was just too old school until Vince had no choice, but to turn him heel(a move he wanted to do with Backlund in 1984 against Hogan).

So, Backlund/Hart's feud was basically a hard on for Vince that he wanted to pull a decade before, but Backlund balked. Vince ended up getting his way. There is even folklore that what Vince did to Bret Hart in 1997 he did to Backlund on December 26, 1983. That Backlund was double-crossed. The more likely truth was that Backlund did not know Hogan would get the title off Shiek the following month. He was scheduled to face Sheik at the Garden. Vince also felt that since Backlund was instrumental in the first big boom he would be instrumental in the marketing disaster that was "the new generation".

That explains what I stated above that Vince wanted to pretend 1984-1992 didn't exist. He marketed things to seem like things went into thin air the night Backlund lost his title and he had returned with vengence to regain it, but the mighty Diesel destroyed him for the title that broke the match record of even Bruno Sammartino. In theory, it was a nice plan, but Nash blew as champion as fans wanted HBK/Hart as champ.

As for Lawler who knows. I guess with Vince creating the KOR as a ppv he came with some kind of agreement with Lawler to appear and contest the crowning. He was doing that for years anyways when Race and Savage were proclaiming to be the king of wrestling.

[Edited on 6-16-2004 by promoter2003]

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posted on 7-1-2004 at 04:03 AM Edit Post
Just looking over this, my first thread here ....

One thing that never occured to any of us was Ted's age. He was already a veteren by 1987, I mean Wrestlemania 4 was his first PPV and he was headlining! You don't get bigger pushes than that. If you look at what Vince did with Dibiase and Savage, you can see that from about 1991 onwards he was looking to develop younger stars. Santana, Valentine, Hercules, Garvin... the list goes on and on and on, just as there was a cull of Ken Patera, Don Muroco types around 1988 or so, so to did the fed cut many of the Garvin/ Valentine/ Santana generation in 1991. Savage and Dibiase survived, obviously, because they were big names, but had to suffer going on the back-burner for a bit. Actually if you assess it closely, Dibiase WAS getting RE-pushed in late 1991 when they put him with Sherri, he went over Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart and quite a few others at non-PPV matches and Virgil made him look great on the PPVs. However, Ric Flair arrival changed everything:

Hogan, for whatever reason, wouldn't feud with Flair properly. So obviously the fed needed a tried and tested face to go against Flair. Unfortunately for Dibiase that meant Savage. With Flair vs Savage (vs Warrior) and Hogan vs Sid going on at the top of the card, there was actually no space for Dibiase there - literally nobody for him to feud with in 1992. Tagging him with the struggling IRS made sense in the short term. As for the upper-mid card, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels were making their names there and it would not be feasible for Dibiase to chase the IC title after being involved with such high-profile angles in the past.

So basically Ted could have been champ any time between 1988 to 1991 but not after. It seems to me that any fed struggles with more than six main eventers at any one stage: Ted was in those six in 1988, 89, 90 and 91 but Ric Flair's arrival, and Sid's, put him out of contention in 1992.

Just for your interest here, I'll list them:

Top 6 Main Eventers, Year-by-year:

1988: Hogan (f), Savage (f), Warrior (f), Dibiase (h), Andre (h), Honky Tonk Man (h)

1989: Hogan (f), Savage (h), Warrior (f), Dibiase (h), Rude (h), Zeus (h)

1990: Hogan (f), Savage (h), Warrior (f), Dibiase (h), Perfect (h), Earthquake (h)

1991: Hogan (f), Savage (f), Warrior (f),Dibiase (h), Slaughter (h), Undertaker (h) (Flair...)

[Edited on 1/7/2004 by Parvini]





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posted on 7-1-2004 at 06:01 AM Edit Post
When did IRS and DiBiase first team-up? I'm thinking around September 91, when they may have been booked in one of those "team-up/double-up feud" matches. Maybe against the team of Big Bossman and Virgil? Virgil was feuding with DiBiase and Bossman with IRS. They didn't officially become known as "Money, Inc" until after their title victory in Feb. 92.





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posted on 7-1-2004 at 03:19 PM Edit Post
If Flair did enter the wwe in 1988 who else thinks Ted Dibase, Flair, and the BrainBusters wouldn't have made an awesome 4 horsemen group?
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posted on 7-1-2004 at 06:13 PM Edit Post
Wow, that doesn't even bare thinking about in terms of awesomeness. Dibiase would have been a natural in the horsemen.

Thinking about it if Ted had been in NWA rather than in WCW his career would have been evern more awesome. They would have defintely given him a run with the title (NWA style to have a heel champ), he would have been a shoe in to replace Ole Anderson in the Horsemen AND he'd have a ready made feud with Ric Flair waiting for him if he started being too pushy (with Flair turning face of course). Also can you IMAGINE the Dangerous Alliance with Dibiase in it: Rude, Anderson, Austin, Pillman, Dibiase - now there's a dreamteam!!

[Edited on 10/8/2004 by Parvini]





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posted on 8-13-2004 at 11:32 PM Edit Post
I think Dibiase would not have fitted into the Four Horseman and actually Parvini, his style suited the WWF more than the NWA. Just because Dibiase was a good wrestler, it doesn't mean he would automatically be more suited to the NWA. I would consider some one like Arn Anderson more suited to the NWA - a guy with no real gimmick who is just an awesome worker - same with Blanchard, same with Steamboat. Dibiase was an awesome worker but it is the "Million Dollar Man" gimmick and how well he played it that got him over. For a guy that used to have Dibiase as an avatar it seems stange that you'd suggest that Ted was more suited to the NWA. From his very poor WCW run as a manager and "benefactor" to the NWO this is clearly not the case, although it wasn't really Teddy's fault. Dibiase was always the sort of guy who needed to have a role and to know exactly what he was doing at any one time - for this reason WWF was definitely the place for him.





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I, I can't live within you

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ModSquad
Hello, future girlfriend






Posts 3472
Registered 1-30-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: Trumpy

posted on 8-13-2004 at 11:50 PM Edit Post
Are you actually ARGUING WITH YOURSELF?

I mean, you SEEM like you're two different people. And you sure gave it to that Parvini there!

And you two have the EXACT SAME IP address.

If there's one thing I hate more than people who selectively edit their posts in the middle of their argument... more than people who keep CHANGING their argument in order to be "right" all the time... more than people who start two new threads after one is closed... more than people who make threads about personal U2U issues... has gotta be the shit-for-brains who thinks he's pulling a fast one by arguing with his "banned persona."

You and TTP are practically the same person, so I'll give you the same message I give him when he emails me every other day: go anywhere else. Die there.





"The moment that The Rick tells me that I am in the wrong then I will stop. And since I have 10 years of reading his work under my belt I feel fairly confident that he won't since he is a proponent of thinking differently. Save the threats."

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2HoT
The Immortal One






Posts 4818
Registered 3-23-2002
Location Yermomsbox PA
Member Is Offline

Mood: Cock-sure

posted on 8-14-2004 at 12:01 AM Edit Post
What is it about a man that makes him so pathetic and desparate for attention that he feels the need to constantly return to a place where he will henceforth recieve nothing but hostility and ridicule.


TTP I hope you are reading this because Parvini might be the loser du jour but you are a thosand times more pathetic.

You know your computer has an off switch right?

Perhaps the both of you should take up a hobby that doesn't involve watching your ass grow while becoming the laughing stock of people world wide.

Or perhaps you should just meet. I am sure you would make fast friends. I realize that the concept of having a friend is probably something quite novel to the both of you but heck, there's a first time for everything right?

In the meantime, I'd say it's been fun but I'd be lying.

I hope you two are very happy together.





Who wants soup?

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