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Author: Subject: Wrestlemania Survivor: Round 17
borntorun
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posted on 3-12-2004 at 11:56 PM Edit Post
Wrestlemania Survivor: Round 17

In a surprising upset, Wrestlemania XIV narrowly lost the voting to stay out of the top 3. Down go Austin and Michaels! Or, do they?

The final three feature legendary matches involving Austin, The Rock, HBK, Razor Ramon, Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Randy Savage, and Ricky Steamboat. Which of the three WWE fanboy fantasy cards will make it to number one?

There are only three WMs and Mabey left, and we are down to one poll per round Here we go now; the real fun begins!

Here's round 17: Same rules. Vote for the remaining Wrestlemania you like least.

If voting gets close, discuss and try to swing votes one way or another!

The top Wrestlemanias thus far, selected by the OO posters:

1.
2.
3.
4. Wrestlemania XIV
5. Wrestlemania XIX
6. Wrestlemania XII
7. Wrestlemania V
8. Wrestlemania X8
9. Wrestlemania VIII
10. Wrestlemania VI
11. Wrestlemania 2000
12. Wrestlemania VII
13. Wrestlemania IV
14. Wrestlemania
15. Wrestlemania XV
16. Wrestlemania XI
17. Wrestlemania 13
18. Wrestlemania II
19. Wrestlemania IX





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FusionFistCutter
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 12:02 AM Edit Post
I'm voting WMX off, because it's the only one out of the three remaining I haven't seen. So on you WMX!!!





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promoter2003
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 12:11 AM Edit Post
I have to say X gets the boot. It only had the two five star matches and Savage/Crush street fight along with Bret's second title victory. Damn, that's some good stuff, but it has to come down to X-7 and III imo. The two big dome shows are the epitome of Mania at its finest. Top to bottom I think III and X-7 own it. I know some will vote III and think only Steamboat/Savage and Hogan/Andre are good on the show.

I think honourable mention has to go to the six man tag, Honky upsetting Jake the snake(starting his fluke streak), Bundy smashing a midget(sportz entertainment), pay off of Santana ripping Slick's clothes, and even the opening tag team match. There just seems to be more significant moments on that show than X. Stuff like Piper and Adonis that led way to Beefcake as "The Barber". The show has a lot of Mania moments. The large crowd also didn't hurt when seeing Aretha Franklin sing America "The Beautiful". Notice this show overall had better impact than X-7 which led to nothing.

[Edited on 3-13-2004 by promoter2003]

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fsolomon75
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 12:19 AM Edit Post
This is tough but not as tough as picking between III and X-7.....X is done.

I might have to pick X-7 as the best ever....Austin-Rock, TLC, a great Taker-HHH match, Shane doing the Van Terminator on Vince, Angle-Benoit....

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promoter2003
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 12:31 AM Edit Post
You see this is where it gets hard. I think WM III will get shafted because people will remember X-7 more because of the "now" factor. I seriously remember III blowing it away in terms of media exposure. For the hype it had it definitely delivered. The day after Hogan lifting Andre was on newspaper covers here. It was sports shows and I remember it on Entertainment Tonight. Sure, X-7 may have its moments, but III imo felt more like once in a lifetime event. X-7 felt more like a blown up raw or smackdown show. I don't know I think the silly RTC match, Jericho/Regal pissing feud, useless hardcore title match, go nowhere Test/Eddie match bring it down below III. III's positives outwiegh X-7's positives. Shane and Vince is really nothing in long term significance. Angle/Benoit, Taker/HHH, TLC II and Rock/Austin is really the show.

I don't think it topped the blow off matches from III. The matches actually ended a rivalry or began something. The TLC II was just another match in the series with Edge and Christian coming out on top. Taker just continued his streak. Benoit and Angle did start their classic rivalry. Austin/Rock is the true saviour with Austin closing the Attitude era. This Mania did not garner the same kind of press as III. It did however perfectly represent the best of the second boom, while III represented the best of the first boom.

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microplay_24
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 12:38 AM Edit Post
It’s a toss up between III and X…I’ve watched both, but it’s been quite a while, so I don’t know…

The thing with 3 is that it was too old-school for me, while X was ok…but they were both epic, and great shows…

You know, the reality is that X-7 is going to be #1 anyway, and deservingly so, thus it’s not gonna matter whether 3 or X go…They made it to the top3, and that’s good enough.

anyway…my final decision….3, only because the majority of the roster were old-school names I didn’t quite remember at the time…but really, it’s almost as equal to X nonetheless.





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shashwat mishra
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 02:35 AM Edit Post
Wrestlemania X was a historical event and it delivered on all counts. There were 2 of the the best wrestlemania matches of all time in Bret Versus Owen and Shawn versus Razor Ramon.

And the crowd was very involved throughout the night. Watch it erupt when Bret pins Yokozuna.

X was a fantastic experience, ahead of Wrestlemania III or X-7.





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MrJustinB
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 03:07 AM Edit Post
Bah..I'm so torn...

I love all these cards...let's try a logical look...

I've long loved 10, I'm voting for 3 given that in the end I think there's less good stuff on 3. Though, a ton of GREAT stuff on both. Perhaps the historic stuff is better on three, but in the end I think ten has a more well-rounded card.





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VanMilder
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 03:52 AM Edit Post
Defending WM III

Rick Martel and Tom Zenk defeated Bob Orton & Don Muraco-
The "Can-Am" Connection against Fuji's stable. This was the new "rock-and-roll Express" at the time, but was quickly gone with the Tom Zenk leap around federation tour, that has been his career.

Billy Jack Haynes and Hercules wrestled to a double-countout The battle of the full nelson, the most boring move next to the abdominal strech(sorry Mike Rotunda)

Hillbilly Jim, Haiti Kid & Little Beaver defeated King Kong Bundy, Little Tokyo & Lord Littlebrook via DQ The most evil fat man (and main eventer of WMII) with midgets! How do you go wrong with this!

Harley Race defeated Junk Yard Dog via pinfall. Classic NWA battle of big men here. JYD and "Grab them Cakes" is a WM icon, no one is meaner than the Junk Yard Dog (except Bad Leroy Brown)

Greg Valentine & Brutus Beefcake defeated the Rougeau Brothers via pinfall The Dream Team's last stand, until the new "Dream Team"

Roddy Piper defeated Adrian Adonis. Roddy's retirement match, I wonder what he has been up to the past 17 years.

The Hart Foundation & Danny Davis defeated the British Bulldogs and Tito Santana via pinfall. The former champions (tag and IC) screwed over by the "evil" referee and the men that benefited from his tag team turn.

Butch Reed defeated Koko B. Ware via pinfall. the "Natural" beats the "Birdman" Two WWF mid-carders always knocking on the main event's door, the winner gets a little piece of Hogan later. Two underacheivers make good.

Ricky Steamboat defeated Randy Savage to capture the Intercontinental Championship. Greatest non-gimmick match in WM history.

Honky Tonk Man defeated Jake the Snake" Roberts via pinfall. Alice Cooper, a snake, Jimmy Hart at his prime, this is what undercards should be!
Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff defeated the Killer Bees via DQ. OK the throwaway match.

WWE Champion Hulk Hogan defeated Andre the Giant via pinfall. Hogan has one version of the story, but truth or not this is the legend of WM. When people think WM old or young this is the match. Hogan at his prime, Andre still as "the Giant" the unbeatable giant, these two are WM.

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ModSquad
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 04:36 AM Edit Post
Why didn't you just make a TopTenList?





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cpdevine1
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 07:09 AM Edit Post
have to say bye to X

III is the most historical WM3 ever, biggest crowd, biggest matches, biggest hype, lots of matches on the undercard, Savage vs Steamboat, Hogan vs Andre, 2 out of 3 three 6 man tag match.

X had the ladder match that made history, Bret vs Owen (which OWEN WON!!!), Bret winning the title back. ON the downside, it also had Earthquake vs Adam bomb squash, Men on a mission in the tag title match and Alundra Blayze.

The only thing I can find against X-7 was the gimmick battle royal, and even that was fun with Bobby Heenan returning. Angle vs Benoit, Austin vs Rock in a GREAT match with a shocking finish, Shane mcMahon doing the Van-terminator was a killer holy shit moment, TLC 2, Even Eddie vs Test was fun. X-7 was the closest PPV to WM3 IMO.

considering all that, X gets my vote this time.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 07:23 AM Edit Post
III is so over rated!!! It had the size factor, but histroy tends to make us think things are better then they were. Fact is, Owen vs Bret and Shawn vs Razor were better matches then Ricky vs Savage on a workrate, and the angles for the X matches were top notch.

X has the better main event, plus it has Bret vs Owen and HBK vs Razor

Plus, Crush vs Savage is highly under-rated...a great brawl by all accounts with one of the cooler endings in WM history.

As for that tag match....Quebecers + Johnny Polo = pure gold!

But besides debating X and III...have we all agreed that 17 was the best?

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TarheelMike
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 12:49 PM Edit Post
Yeah, III was signifigant, but so was X. Where III was the peak of the mid-80's WWF, X turned the page, and was the beginning of what will culminate tomorrow night at MSG.

I think X-7 is a lock for #1, but picking between these two is tough. So, it's Savage/Steamboat, Hogan/Andre, & a shitload of people in the Silverdome vs. Shawn/Razor, Bret/Owen, a HOT crowd at MSG, and Bret's big win.

III, we sincerely appreciate what you have done for wrestling... now get the hell outta here. Sorry. Nothin but love for ya, though.

Edit: Thinking again about this, I think that Mabey may have been the best choice here... oh well.

[Edited on 3-13-2004 by TarheelMike]





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cpdevine1
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 01:29 PM Edit Post
I can't believe III wont make it. Everything about it screams best ever. No it wasn';t the best production value, but it was 14 years prior to X-7, lighting and things change.

X was good, but I don't think it compares. Sorry, but Hogan/Andre FAR surpasses Bret/Yoko. Savage/Steamboat on it's own was great, and there is nothin over rated about it.

The only good things about X was the ladder match, the title match and the opening match with Bret and Owen.

III is the best WM, debateably better than X-7, but DEFINITELY better than X.

come on people, show III the love.





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promoter2003
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 04:42 PM Edit Post
I will try to bat for WM III again to stay over X(over X-7 as well). Okay, I would like to ask what match in history is remembered the most? I mean on the streets? I can bet its Hogan/Andre. Tell me which match can come close to the anticipation of this match in 1987? The closest I think was Rock/Austin at WM XV during their peak in popularity. In the annals of time Hogan/Andre have it beat. I can't see how this can be disputed. Andre and Hogan are bigger than Rock and Austin(with stats to back it up). The closest in drawing power for this match is Rock/Austin in terms of the new era. There is a reason why Vince booked Hogan/Andre for the silverdome and hasn't gone back. Austin and Rock drew in Austin's hiomestate.

What storyline of the 80's do most people remember til this day? Savage crushing the larynx of Steamboat or Orndorff turning on Hogan. I think there is no storyline that tops Steamboat/Savage going into WM X or WM X-7. Someone try to top this storyline from either X-7 or X.

X had Owen/Bret heading into the Garden, but let's not kid ourselves Steamboat/Savage had way more heat. How could the match be over rated when it's still the top non-gimmick match in WM history(no ironman stip, no ladder, no "I quit", no heel turn for shock like X-7)*These are its competitors, but they are not straight up matches).

Did anyone catch Cena and Booker T on BET yesterday? When the guy was asking the music artists about wrestling they all mentioned stars from the 80's such as Steamboat. No one talks about Owen Hart or Bret Hart. I swear III blew away X in terms of mainstream longevity in creating icons of the business. Bulldogs and Hart Foundation were coming upon the climax of their feud and are arguably the best wwe tag champs of all-time interchangeably. Throw in Davis who screwed both Bulldogs and Santana within the year for storyline depth. The tag team champion scenario at X and X-7 are a joke compared to it. Piper/Adonis participated in what we would label the sports entertainment match of today. Did you see the finish of that match? That easily competes(might be stronger as well) with Shane/Vince in terms of crowd reaction.

We go to look at this as if we never saw the events before. If each card was presented tommorrow for the first time with the production of today which card do you think will be talked about more? I can't see how III can lose honestly. Hogan/Andre is still talked about today as the main for X-7 is now looked at as a box office disaster for the post Mania season. Austin even said it was a mistake to turn heel. You don't see second guessing for Hogan slamming Andre. Straight up III had more mark out moments which is what Mania is really all about.

[Edited on 3-13-2004 by promoter2003]

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sharpshooter
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posted on 3-13-2004 at 06:41 PM Edit Post
3 had to go, cause I aint seen it and by all accounts it's only Hogan - Andre, which is all about history and no match, and Savage - Steamboat, which is all match and no history.

You need both, preferably in the same match, like the ladder match, Owen-Bret and Bret's title win at X, and Rock-Austin, TLC 2, HHH-Taker and Angle-Benoit (kinda) at X-7.

How the HELL did X-8 get so high, that Mania sucked a big meat missile IMO, bar Rock-Hogan which wasnt exactly even passable in workrate terms. Hogan-Vince last year was better and was surrounded by better matches too.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 3-14-2004 at 12:10 AM Edit Post
"In the annals of time Hogan/Andre have it beat."

Maybe it's just me...but a lot of the "big" Hogan matches were awesome live...but don't stand up over time. Hogan vs Andrea was a great mark out moment...but it wasn't any bigger then Rock vs Hogan.

With that said, X has a match for the Smarks (Bret vs Owen) and a match for the Marks (Shawn vs Razor) that stand up on multiple viewings.

Sure Bret vss Yoko wasn't amazing...but it had a great story...and personally I remember the celebration for Bret (with Owen looking on) a lot more then any of the Hogan stuff.

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promoter2003
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posted on 3-14-2004 at 03:59 AM Edit Post
Hey, I started the thread by stating I was batting for WM III. So of course, my post would try to bias some to pick III. It's not a matter if anyone feels I'm wrong or not. I just tried to get III not eliminated. Simple really. That is what all of us are trying to do right? Try to get people to vote similar to us in the eliminations. How that makes me all smarky I fail to see. Giving reasons such as the average Joe in relation to WM III is just trying to sway people's opinion. I knew before this was all said and done III would not get the vote of best ever because in the net universe X and X-7 majority of the time get the accoldade of best ever. I have always thought otherwise and knew the time would come(as stated in earlier threads that I will try to illustrate why X-7 is over-rated) where this debate with these 3 mania shows would come.

Whether my diatribe works or not is besides the point. The point is this is a "game" of survival. It's all apart of the fun to throw down the gloves in this survivor game. The survivor goes to the masses on the boards, but the fun I think is seeing people's reasons for their voting.

Now with your own response you thought Hogan/Andre was actually the original Mania main event match. What does that say? It says that is the match you had associated with WrestleMania which is what I was saying why III should get the crown. You also remembered Steamboat/Savage. Regardless if you didn't remember which show it was from the third Mania is where it was staged. I think me picking III actually deconstructs what you believe which is that I am some kind of extreme smark. Most times my analysis consists of things that I feel would have people marking out more instead of getting all smarked up. You see that's the difference with me. I most times don't try to be a smarty pants who thinks who knows best. Most times I think in the vien of what will more likely make fans mark out and that is where my "going over", "increase" and "preserve" heat stuff come from.

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