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Author: Subject: George Bush is a fucking piece of shit
mr_mysterious2
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posted on 3-1-2004 at 09:09 PM Edit Post
George Bush is a fucking piece of shit

Way to go you useless piece of shit, side with the death squad torturers.

From Dnow. Transcript of interview with congressmember Maxine Waters.

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman. Congressmember Waters, can you tell us about the conversation you just had with Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide?

MAXINE WATERS: I most certainly can and he’s anxious for me to get the message out so people will understand. He is in the Central Republic of Africa at a place called the Palace of the Renaissance, and he’s not sure if that’s a house or a hotel or what it is and he is surrounded by military. It’s like in jail, he said. He said that he was kidnapped; he said that he was forced to leave Haiti. He said that the American embassy sent the diplomats; he referred to them as, to his home where they was lead by Mr. Moreno. And I believe that Mr. Moreno is a deputy chief of staff at the embassy in Haiti and other diplomats, and they ordered him to leave. They said you must go NOW. He said that they said that Guy Phillipe and U.S. Marines were coming to Port Au Prince; he will be killed, many Haitians will be killed, that they would not stop until they did what they wanted to do. He was there with his wife Mildred and his brother-in-law and two of his security people, and somebody from the Steel Foundation, and they’re all, there’s five of them that are there. They took them where-- they did stop in Antigua then they stopped at a military base, then they were in the air for hours and then they arrived at this place and they were met by five ministers of government. It’s a Francophone country, they speak French. And they were then taken to this place called the Palace of the Renaissance where they are being held and they are surrounded by military people. They are not free to do whatever they want to do. Then the phone clicked off after we had talked for about five--we talked maybe fifteen minutes and then the phone clicked off. But he, some of it was muffled in the beginning, at times it was clear. But one thing that was very clear and he said it over and over again, that he was kidnapped, that the coup was completed by the Americans that they forced him out. They had also disabled his American security force that he had around him for months now; they did not allow them to extend their numbers. To begin with they wanted them to bring in more people to provide security they prevented them from doing that and then they finally forced them out of the country. So that’s where his is and I said to him that I would do everything I could to get the word out. …that I heard it directly from him I heard it directly from his wife that they were kidnapped, they were forced to leave, they did not want to leave, their lives were threatened and the lives of many Haitians were threatened. And I said that we would be in touch with the State Department, with the President today and if at all possible we would try to get to him. We don’t know whether or not he is going to be moved. We will try and find that information out today.

AMY GOODMAN: Did President Aristide say whether or not he resigned?

MAXINE WATERS: He did not resign. He said he was forced out, that the coup was completed.

AMY GOODMAN: So again to summarize, Congressmember Maxine Waters, you have just gotten off the phone with President Jean Bertrand Aristide, who said he believes he is in the Central African Republic.

MAXINE WATERS: That’s right, with French speaking officers, he’s surrounded by them and he’s in this place called the Palace of the Renaissance and he was forced to go there. They took him there.

AMY GOODMAN: What are you going to do right now?

MAXINE WATERS: I’m going to get to the State Dept to find out what do they plan on doing with him. Do they plan on leaving him there or are they planning on taking him to another country? We are going to tell them we would like to see him. We are prepared to go where he is NOW and that we are demanding that we are able to see him and go where he is. And to negotiate what will be done with him.

AMY GOODMAN: Did he describe how he was taken out? We had heard reports in Haiti that he was taken out in handcuffs. Did he…

MAXINE WATERS: No he did not say he was taken out in handcuffs. He simply said that they came led by Mr. Moreno followed by the marines and they said simply “you have to go!” You have no choice, you must go and if you don’t you will be killed and many Haitians will be killed. We are planning with Mr. De filliped to come into Puerto Rico. He will not be alone he will come with American military and you will not survive, you will be killed. You’ve got to go now!

AMY GOODMAN: How did President Aristide sound? What was the quality of his voice?

MAXINE WATERS: The quality of his voice was anxious, angry, disturbed, wanting people to know the truth.

AMY GOODMAN: Did he say why he had not made any calls since early on Sunday morning; that people had not been in touch with him for more than 36 hours. Certainly this plane was equipped with a telephone?

MAXINE WATERS: OH, I don’t think they were able to make any calls from the plane. They were only allowed to make calls once they landed. And I think the only call that they had made was to her mother who is in Florida and her brother. But they were not allowed…they had no access to telephone calls… to a telephone on the plane.

AMY GOODMAN: What is the next step…what are you going to do? What do you think the people in this country should being doing about this situation in Haiti?

MAXINE WATERS: First of all I think the people in this country should be outraged that our government led a coup de’tat against a democratically elected President. They should call, write. Fax with their outrage, not only to the State Dept. but to all of their elected officials and to the press. We have to keep the information flying in the air so people will get it and understand what is taking place. And for those of us who are elected officials we must not only get to the President, we must demand that he is returned to claim his presidency if that is what he wants. If you can recall what happened in Venezuela when Mr. Chavez was…they tried to force him out and they had someone step into the presidency and he had not resigned his presidency and he got it back. I did not have that conversation with President Aristide but we must meet with him and we must talk with him and be prepared to protect him.

AMY GOODMAN: Congressmember Maxine Waters I want to thank you for being with us again. Congress member Waters has just spoken with President Aristide who she says said he was kidnapped and is now with his wife and surrounded by security in the Central African Republic.

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mcian
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posted on 3-1-2004 at 09:16 PM Edit Post
I am not usually one to defende Dubya, but in this case I do not think that the US kidnapped anyone.

Aristide is probably making excuses for leaving the country after he said that he would stay till his death and all that crap that he said last week.

Sure say that the US abandoned him and was supporting him two weeks ago when the conflict began but changed thier tune when they saw he was going to get his ass kicked. Or blame the US for a foreign policy that is lacking in that aid dollars are misdirected.

But I do not think that they kidnapped this guy and took him to CAR. They aided him leaving to prevent further bloodshed, yes but kidnapped him, no.





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mr_mysterious2
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posted on 3-1-2004 at 10:27 PM Edit Post
It's nice to have such a sugar coated view of well intentioned American policy in Latin America, but one need look no further than Venezuela, Nicaragua, Guatamala, or Chile (among others) to get a sense of the type of policies and strategies that are typically employed there. I base my knee-jerk assumption of the validity of these claims on the history of American actions in the region, perhaps I'll be proven wrong, as Dubya was in his claims about WMD in Iraq, but I'm highly cynical of any American denial about covert action in Latin America.
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folby
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posted on 3-1-2004 at 11:17 PM Edit Post
You're venturing into tin-foil hat territory. I think Dubya is a piece of shit as much as the next fellow, but considering the only evidence to this claim is Aristede's (sp?) word, I'm not inclined to believe it right now. Seems to me it's more likely that he's trying to save face, getting kidnapped instead of...what's the phrase...running like a scalded dog.





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mr_mysterious2
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posted on 3-2-2004 at 12:06 AM Edit Post
At this stage, viewing it from a dispassionate position, you're probably right. Yes, its a knee-jerk, emotional assumption and there's every reason to believe what American officials are saying in their denial of involvement.

But I tend to trust my gut reaction on these matters. I don't think its any secret to anyone on this board that I tend to distrust the actions and motives of the Bush administration. I don't claim to have any solid evidence outside of Aristide's testimony to back this one up. I just see this as a repeat of a typical pattern of American involvement in Latin American countries, it looks too familiar to what happened in Venezuela a couple of years ago for me to quiet my sense of the matter.

Aristide is no dummy, and he probably knows that implicating the US in any transfer of power will win him broader sympathy in the international community given the general sentiment towards the US at this time. Still, we'll wait and see. I'm fairly confident that we haven't seen the last on this matter.

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Krydor
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posted on 3-2-2004 at 03:20 PM Edit Post
Bah.

Aristide was and is the posterchild for corruption. I'd say he left under his own power to avoid the public lynching. A couple hundred Canucks and Americans weren't about to make the presidential palace a new Alamo.

I'd say the Marines just went "hey, you can stay, but we aren't going to save your ass as long as you do."

Say, where was France in all this? That happy little chunk of paradise is a French protectorate.






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Thom
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posted on 3-2-2004 at 03:38 PM Edit Post
I must have missed something along the way...

Why would Aristide call Maxine Waters, of all people? Did he want her to come sing to him?





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OO Kyle
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posted on 3-2-2004 at 07:40 PM Edit Post
You know, it wasn't until I saw one of those Earthview 3d maps of Haiti on the news last night that I knew why we were even bothering with the place. I mean, it's a dump.

But it's also right off the coast of Cuba. I'd imagine that this fact explains why we were so chummy with the various Haitian dictators over the past 30 years.

But now days, with Castro a total non-issue, I have to wonder why we're STILL screwing around in Haitian politics.





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Eli
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posted on 3-2-2004 at 10:59 PM Edit Post
I'm in the gray area on this one. Did we put a hood over Aristide's head and drag him out of his headquarters? Probably not. Did we urge him to leave under the implication of force or abandonment and usher him out of office ? Probably.





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FusionFistCutter
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posted on 3-2-2004 at 11:43 PM Edit Post
I also don't understand why we give a flying fuck about these idiots down there. Let em all burn. We've got bigger fish to fry, like Martha Stewart.





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mr_mysterious2
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posted on 3-3-2004 at 12:38 AM Edit Post
Add Chirac and Paul Martin to the "fucking piece of shit" category on this one. The more I read about it, the more it seems that France and Canada were essentially following the American position on this one.

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by mr_mysterious2]

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Pistol Pez
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posted on 3-3-2004 at 12:55 AM Edit Post
I respectfully disagree with you, my good fellow. Although, I must add, that your wit and wisdom are only surpassed by your stature among men and your good manners.






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OO Kyle
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posted on 3-3-2004 at 01:29 AM Edit Post
Mr. M, you'll excuse me if I fail to see how stopping a bloodbath can be seen as a bad thing. I guess the fact that George Bush did it is supposed to immediately make any act "evil", but man, when even the Lefties of the board are tellin' ya that you're reading to much into the situation, it might be time to re-evaluate your stand.





Stand back! There's a HURRICANE coming through! Several, in fact!

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mr_mysterious2
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posted on 3-3-2004 at 01:48 AM Edit Post
As I said, at this point I'm going on a weakly backed assumption that this is a US backed coup based purely on bias formed by Latin American history. But regardless, taking out a democratically elected leader with "rebels" (or terrorist good guys, depending on what term you want to use) who include former prominent death squad members is not a good situation. I'll acknowledge that my position isn't very firmly grounded at this point, but we'll see as this story develops.

EDIT: Nice one Pez

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by mr_mysterious2]

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Pistol Pez
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posted on 3-3-2004 at 03:19 PM Edit Post
Thank you kindly, Mr. M. Bless you, and may a double portion fall upon all those who love you.






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