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Author: Subject: Eddie and Title shot
mcian
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 02:52 PM Edit Post
Eddie and Title shot

After last nights SD I think that this would be the ideal situation.

Eddie goes over at NWO due to outside interference from Goldberg.

This leads to two matches at WMXX. Goldberg vs. Lesnar - they do not have to be fighting for the title and if it is true that Goldberg is gone after WM then everyone will know who is gonna go over. And two Eddie vs. Kurt (who wins the 3 way match at NWO) for the title. This is a way to get the title back onto Kurt (who knows how much longer he might be around withhis neck problems), have a wicked match between two guys and a feud that could go on for a couple more months.





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 03:23 PM Edit Post
It certainly seems like Eddie v. Angle for the title at WM is the direction we're going, but I'm torn on it. On the one hand, every smarky fiber of my body is thrilled at the prospect of Eddie being the champ - Eddie headlining WMXX - Eddie headlining against Angle. It doesn't get much better then that in a smarky world. Only downfall is that, if Angle wins the 3 way at NWO then you just KNOW Eddie's going to win becauise they sure as hell are not going to do Angle v. Brock again at WM.

BUT, despite that, there's a little markish part of me that's kind of sad. I think they're *insane* to not make Goldberg v. Lesnar THE money match at WM. It's one of the very few true dream matches still remaining and will be a huge HUGE match. That said, it should be THE match at WM, the title match, the last match, the match that they hype over all others. In the past two weeks I actually got quite excited about this match, and while I still am, I think making it an undercard match to Eddie/Angle is crazy.

Now I know the chief argument is "the match is so big that it doesn't need the title" but I think that's crap. Look at Hogan v. Warrior at WM6. Huge match that didn't "need" the title - but the fact that it was for the title gave it that extra oomph to really become legendary. Had it not been for the title it still would have been cool, but would we feel the same if Warrior v. Hogan came before the world title match of Savage v. Perfect (or something like that)? For a PERFECT example look at WMX8. Clearly THE money match there was Rock v. Hogan, which didn't "need" the title and which did just fine without it, but the result was a really, really flat title match which lead to a pretty flat feeling for the card in the end. I just don't think hyping one match over your title match is a good idea, but it seems like that's the direction they're going this year.

OK, very early to judge, I know, so we'll wait and see, but I do think it's absolutely nuts not to have Lesnar v. Goldberg for the title.

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mcian
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 03:29 PM Edit Post
The Hogan vs. Rock match at WM was the biggest match on the card and there was no title there. The title match was flat cause after the biggest match on the card turned out to be Hogan vs. Rock and that took everything out of the crowd. I was at WM18 and after that match everyone knew that HHH vs. Jericho could not beat it.

I think that they can make Lesnar vs. Goldberg work without the title. If Lesnar losses the title and they already have a #1 contender from the three way match - so by the rules he can not get a rematch until after WMXX. So they can have him be all pissed at Goldberg for him costing him the title and this could fill his time.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by mcian]





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 03:40 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by mcian
The Hogan vs. Rock match at WM was the biggest match on the card and there was no title there. The title match was flat cause after the biggest match on the card turned out to be Hogan vs. Rock and that took everything out of the crowd. I was at WM18 and after that match everyone knew that HHH vs. Jericho could not beat it.


That's exactly my point. I think Lesnar v. Goldberg has a good chance to be the biggest match on the card, which will make Eddie v. Angle somewhat flat. Eddie's riding high right now, and he's very over, but he's not NEARLY as over as Goldberg is. I know why HHH v. Jericho flopped and it seems like they're setting up to potentially cause Angle v. Eddie to flop for the EXACT same reason.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 03:43 PM Edit Post
I've had the pleasure of actually working with Eddie Guerrero in the past (his final North American Indy appearance prior to re-signing, actually) and I will say that he is the most derserving guy of this push. What a class act.

Ok. First let me say, I would find it shocking if WWE actually put the strap on Eddie. In some ways, his size does work against him, though I'd mention the WWE historically has gone with smaller guys when they were so good, it warrented it. For example, Randy Savage back in 88. While Savage was in the Hart, Flair range with size, he was much, much smaller then the vast amount of contenders at the time (Hogan, Andre, Bossman etc - only Dibase reversed this trend and he WAS slated to win the title at WM IV before Honky threw a wrench into the plan). Michaels was also quite small when he won the title, but the fed, at the time, realised the error of their ways as far as going with size over skill.

Anyway, I believe a possibility exists that the fed is actually considering putting the strap on Eddie. Let's look at it.

If we make an educated guess that the fed wants the following for WM:

Lesnar/Goldberg
Guerrero/Angle
HHH/Benoit (or HHH/Benoit/Michaels)
Show Vs Cena for the US title

On SD, if I read correctly, Heyman announces a number one contender's match at No Way Out - Show Vs Cena Vs Angle. Assuming the fed runs with Cena Vs Show at WM, it would seem that Angle is a lock to win the number one contender's match.

Angle Vs Lesnar would be a great main event at WM, but it's been done, several times. Plus, we have that pesky little Lesnar/Goldberg match to get out of the way. Unless they plan on having a triple threat of Lesnar/Goldy/Angle, it would seem to suggest that Lesnar will not be the champion at WM.

Add to this, the impending Angle/Guerrero feud (we can assume Eddie's attacker from last week was Angle, not Chavo) and the fact that Goldy is being heavily hyped as appearing in the audience of No Way Out (he must be there for a reason), and I'd say that it seems likely that Goldy interfers, costing Lesnar the title.

At WM, we get a money match in Lesnar/Goldy that doesn't need a title.
HHH gets the main event spot you know he wants.
And Angle/Guerrero gets a little more interesting (and probably steals the show too).

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mcian
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 03:53 PM Edit Post
Also at WMXX you get to flush the card out with a few more matches that could be very good.

Orton / Foley
Tag matches (both brands - maybe one of them would get pushed to Heat)
Mysterio vs. Noble (?)





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 04:13 PM Edit Post
I hope this is not what they have in mind. Kurt does not really need the title anymore. He is like Jericho in the sense he can still be a main player on the show without holding the strap. Kurt's health would be a chief reason not to give him the belt. Besides, this is not Eddie's first barbecue either as Tazz likes to say. He has been around as long as Benoit has and may not be around that much longer either. Eddie has arguably been the top face on SD! the past year or so and deserves more than a token transitional title reign. Since Eddie is so adept at doing the tweener role we could have some good feuds with him, Kurt, Cena, and Lesnar through the summer.
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 04:18 PM Edit Post
I tend to agree.

The fed won't swap both titles at WM, but probably at least one. With RAW going to Edmonton a month later, I almost suspect Benoit will lose at WM (HHH pins Michaels, not Benoit), setting up the one on one. Benoit wins it in Edmonton.

Therefor, Eddie would drop to Angle. But I'd love Eddie to keep it through-out the summer. He is mega-over.

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mcian
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 04:39 PM Edit Post
I said that it would be Angle vs. Eddie at WMXX - I am not sure if they would switch the belt. With this feud we are bound to get a free - per - view rematch when RAW has its PPV after WMXX and then maybe the blow off match at the SD only PPV a couple of months after WMXX.

I would personally think that Eddie should retain the title and drop it on a FPV match then get it back at the PPV and start to feud with someone else, Cena perhaps.





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 04:50 PM Edit Post
I think you'll see Cena win the US strap at WM and have a long run with it.

Not sure who is next challenger would be - maybe Billy Gun or Holly. But if Eddie and Angle feud for awhile, Lesnar will be left with nothing with Goldy leaving. Perhaps Angle loses to Eddie in a month long feud and moves over to a program with Edge, leaving Eddie and Lesanr to continue (since their feud will really be a one and done deal with Lesnar immediately moving over to work Goldy).

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mcian
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 04:58 PM Edit Post
Yeah I forgot that after WMXX Goldberg will, most likely, be gone from the WWE.





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 05:40 PM Edit Post
I don't know it SEEMS like Eddie will win, but I think maybe Vince Mcmahon is playing around with the card he planned since it got out on the net. He might have something up his sleeve. We got to think how Vince operates. It's rumoured that Vince wants the product to "mature" this year. In some ways I see subtle changes. Vince Mcmahon hasn't been over the top Vince in terms of character. Even Bischoff and Austin have toned down the over the top stuff. Heyman has been gold thus far in his role. Compare this to what they were doing last year with Al Wilson and the predictable Lesnar push to Mania.

I think Vince might actually be creating a smarter(not in a smark p.o.v either) product and for one I hope that IS the direction(although stuff like Nidia/Noble will negate that theory*if they could get the whole product to be like the top of the card it would be a great step forward). The NWO set up seems too perfect.

I go back with the Chris Benoit thing. Smarks knew Benoit would win because of the storyline. Hell, even marks could figure that "one last chance" story although it did seem impossible. They put Benoit at #1 and didn't insult the fans by trying to tell us that he "coincidentally" picked the worst number to coincide with his story with Heyman.

They put Goldberg at #30 through some kind of toruney on tv as to not insult fans by having him "coincidnentally" pick the "best" number. They helped put doubt on both ends as these two were the favourites. Throw in Cena and Angle along with Jericho as possibilities because of their stories which could lead to a Mania main event. Cena vs. Brock was possible because they were testing it on house shows along with Benoit. Jericho/Trips was also a possibility with maybe Jericho/HBK(champ). This was done much better than last year's because 2003 you could see truly only one way it could go.

Benoit DID win, but the swerve was in which champion he would face. Goldberg could have easily have won and done the same angle. I think this new rule makes the Rumble less predictable. Anyways, they are teasing Goldberg/Lesnar and the rumour is that is the wwe title match.

However, they have made things unpredictable, but also predictable. I don't know if this is by design and I hope it is because I could see wrestling really improving if this is how they start writing and booking the shows. The current stiuation to us seems to be Eddie as champion. To a casual fan there will be anticipation to see Lesnar lose because of Goldberg and Eddie finally going to the top. It's how they get to Lesnar/Goldberg that is the fun.

The reason I think a swerve could be coming is that why would they move Benoit to raw if Lesnar was going to job? It could be possible that Eddie just got Benoit's push on smackdown as NWO was suppose to happen this month in Edmonton, but the build up seems out of nowhere. They could have started the main event push of Eddie around Royal Rumble and not have him face Chavo. They could have broken them up at Survivor Series and start Eddie's bid for gold from there. However, Benoit got the push because it is Benoit they want to have the "dream come true" story.

It is a possibility that he got switched because the wwe got the arena for April instead of February. I could see it truly being Angle/Benoit as an original plan where Benoit topples Angle in a title defense at Mania. However, they did not bother with this path. I think though that Brock/Goldberg was always planned to be the main event since around Survivor Series and that's why this manuevering happened.

I think there is good reason to wonder if the possible title matches will get the Antartica treatment because of the Goldberg/Lesnar and UT/Kane matches. I think the Jericho/Triple H thing had no heat for a few reasons. The storyline was garbage. Jericho got no heat because he was a dog sitter instead of being the undisputed champion of champions.Don't forget he was also Stephanie's servant.
For all the negative stuff against Tiple H in the last couple of years, I will completely admit that they BOTCHED Triple H's face return.

He came back with a mission to get the title and got monstrous pops at MSG. Slowly, they turned him into a story of a heart broken Triple H who was duped by his wife. They basically booked that entire feud for the pedigree on Stephanie to be the climax and we saw how that went in my home town. The title match was booked terribly. Oh yeah, Triple H going on national television and belittling champion Jericho as a star in a shoot(he's missing something like the top guys was mentioned) might give the impression that it's a foregone conclusion who would win, thus no heat for the match.

They brought in the nWo, but the nWo didn't even bother the wwf champ. They went after Rock and Austin which gave the impression that those two were the real top guys. Jericho's push dead in the water. Triple H's run at the title dead in the water. Not to mention Triple H and Jericho put on a friggin boring match.

I think they have built up Angle/Eddie much better and if that is the title match it will work in New York's crowd. Eddie has the demographics and New York loves Angle(going by past recent events like Series 2002). They are also building up Goldberg/Lesnar better than Rock and Hogan in someways(the stupid stuff aren't showing yet). These two matches won't get the Trips/Jericho treatment.

It's funny, the top match that I'm worried about getting an average response has to do with Triple H and Benoit and HBK. What they did with Jericho in 2002 is what they are doing with Chris Benoit now. They have to stop it. At least he is coming off a strong Rumble victory, but they are not playing that up. They aren't making him look like a deserving champion when they got Austin and HBK saying that HBK should do something about getting a title shot. They are makig him seem inferior when he clearly is not in terms of ring work. Go and add HBK and see how it comes off in New York. Trips and HBK may get booed. HBK may get cheered more than Benoit(doubt it). Either way the focus is not on Benoit just like the focus was not on Jericho in 2002. Thus, you will get a flat crowd. Benoit wins and it will feel empty because he never wins anyways and thus it comes like a fluke(Jericho's title reign anyone). This should be the main, but Goldberg/Lesnar really is and they should learn from WM 18. Undertaker/Kane couldn't even main event WM 14 when it was new how do they expect it to main event WM XX? They probably want that show ending theatrics that Hogan gave with his posing(get Hogan then to main event Lesnar/Goldberg). I think they have screwed the world title match because they should know Lesnar/Goldberg will have more heat(NEW YORK chose Lesnar over Rock what do they think will happen with Goldberg?).

You know Hogan/Andre would not have been the same if the title wasn't on the line which is why I disagree with the theory of matches like this not needing the title. Lesnar in my mind still is not mainstream enough to warrant this "doesn't need the title" theory. They HELP give the title its meaning. You might as well put the title on Mark Henry and open up the show with him defending against Spike.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 05:51 PM Edit Post
I meant Hogan to ref Goldberg and Lesnar and have Hogan pose down with Lesnar or Goldberg to end the show if they want to end in theatrics. Taker/Kane is a bad idea as they haven't been real main eventers in a couple of years. Benoit with Bret Hart doing his good bye speech is the only way I see the rumoured triple threat ending the show with heat.
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mcian
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posted on 2-6-2004 at 06:02 PM Edit Post
I see the point about Lesnar vs. Goldberg needind the title to be the huge match that the WWE wants but the problem is how to get there.

You have Lesnar vs. Eddie at NWO. Even if Lesnar retains the title he will have to face one of Cena, Angle or Show.

Even if Goldberg interfers in the match at NWO - which he will - Lesnar still has to remain the champ.

So what do you do have Goldberg, who will be leaving the company, beat one of the top guys in the company for the #1 contender spot. That is stupid to put more heat on goldberg if he is not sticking around.





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 06:26 PM Edit Post
I agree with mcian on this one:

First of all, if the Lesnar/Eddie match will be interfered by Goldberg, then there will be a no-decision in the end, and Eddie would need a re-match to end the feud.

Second, for the Goldberg interference to work, Eddie would have to be the new WWE champion. But he doesn’t deserve it. I mean for godsake, to think that both Eddie and Benoit being world title holders by wrestlemania is ridiculous. I can’t imagine BOTH being world title holders at any point by the end of wrestlemania. One of them only, I could see, this being Benoit. But no way should Eddie get the WWE title. No freakin way.

Therefore, Eddie will have un-finished business against Lesnar after NWO if Goldberg interferes, if the outcome involves Lesnar retaining his title, which I totally agree to.

I don’t know…Unless we get a big swerve by the fed, or maybe exactly the opposite, some things might make sense. But where we’re at now, I wonder what they’re going to do.

[Edited on 2-6-2004 by microplay_24]

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 06:28 PM Edit Post
mcian, I think you hit the nail on the head. Goldberg enters the #1 contenders match and there will be an uproar from fans. Some will love it and some will hate it. The ones who love it probably don't know he is leaving. The ones that do will be extremely pissed. Goldberg beats a gimp Cena and trust me the man would be public enemy #1. Forcing yourself into the #1 contenders match and screwing Eddie out of the title will make Goldberg have SERIOUS heat for his match against Lesnar.

Of course, Goldberg won't turn heel even for one match and if he does he won't put his all into it. So, he enters the contender's match and defeats Angle. BTW, he turned heel on smackdown imo it's just that Holly was a weak face. He called out Cena and will probably be known to be the one to take out Eddie. Angle will be pissed that Goldberg took his spot, but I think the fans won't be THAT against Goldberg since they want Goldberg/Brock. That sets up your title match of Goldberg/Lesnar. I'm not saying they WON'T do Angle/Eddie, but this would not surprise me to see Goldberg become the #1 contender.

You see why is it that it happens AT NWO and not on television as always? Goldberg is there live in the arena and allows him to become top contender immediately. I could see the board of directors allowing this since Goldberg was robbed at the Rumble of getting a title shot.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 06:43 PM Edit Post
Yeah but if Goldberg manages to beat three top stars of SD it makes them look like crap when it raises his profile before he is leaving.

I do not see the WWE giving Goldberg thids big push, there is no point in getting him over.

I guess that the WMXX match could be considered big enough that this scenario would be willing to take place but I am personally not a fan of Goldberg and would hope that this would not happen.

Another problem is that you have Eddie and Angle not doing anything for WMXX - you cna put them in a match against each other but there is no real reason for it and with them being in seperate matches at the PPV I can not see them building a feud.



[Edited on 2-6-2004 by mcian]





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:01 PM Edit Post
That's the thing. This is GOLDBERG we're talking about here. You think he's going to just leave the company without getting something in return? If he agreed to job to Lesnar you know what that means? That Lesnar is no longer the Goldberg rip-off. That is who the company is pushing in the big picture. I could see them jobbing Big Show or Angle to get this done. Angle has the best cred in the triple threat and won't really lose his heat anyways. He's the gold medalist. He can just say Goldberg cheated and he lost because of the element of surprise. He's turning heel and heel Angle finds excuses(just like the time he lost his win streak against Tazz). It will also fit his current storyline of losing important matches. He lost for the troops at Royal Rumble. He failed in his attempts to patch Eddie and Chavo(he could have also set it up). He lost the smackdown rumble. Now the true turning point would be to lose another important match which would be the impetus to turn heel. It will make him more determined to win at Mania and say to hell with the fans. No one really loses their heat in triple threat matches which is why they do it. If it turns out to be a four way it's even a bigger excuse. One on one is a different story.

Another thing is that Goldberg doesn't have ANY big wins since losing the title. I don't think beating up Coach, Henry, and Hardy(who's gimmick is now a big losing streak). Goldberg has to beat someone strong, so he seems strong going into Mania. He has jobbed in his last two ppv outings.

Goldberg winning the contenders match won't really make Cena/Show/Angle look bad. The destination here is Goldberg/Lesnar. Goldberg going to TNA? Could happen, but they don't even have a television deal, so the masses aint seeing him weekly for MONTHS. He doesn't like Russo, but he likes money so who knows. He most likely will go to Japan. Who knows maybe the guy re-signs.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:07 PM Edit Post
How anyone can say Eddie does not deserve the push or the strap is beyond me.

The guy is pure gold and a bonafide star all over the world.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:15 PM Edit Post
I'm not saying the guy doesn't deserve the strap(it does seem like it's going to happen). However, I'm going off how Vince operates and promotes the company. I also think if they put the strap on Eddie it will not make Benoit's quest as important a month later. Big deal, Eddie beat him to it against the man he JUMPED SHIP from. Eddie would have also done it by PINNING the reigning champion. It would be great to see Eddie as WWE Champ and Benoit winning at Mania, but Eddie would have beat him to it. It's a small thing, but it's a big thing.

Of course, the company probably doesn't realize this and will go with the plan only to say in two months Benoit is not as over as Eddie as champ and wonder why.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:17 PM Edit Post
While we may think that Eddie deserves the strap and with the current situation that looks like how one scenario might play out i doubt that they will give it to him.

One alternate scenario. Eddie wins the title. On the next SD Goldberg makes his first appearance as a SD star and for Heyman to get him to come over he had to give him a title shot for that SD. Goldberg wins the title then drops it back to Lesnar at WMXX. This could work. Eddie wins the belt, even if for a short time, Goldberg likes having gold around his waist so he is happy and Lesnar can go to WMXX as the challenger and take th title back. Also Lesnar never has to job to anyone but Eddie, and you can have Goldberg give Lesnar a spear when the ref is distracted or something to give Eddie that win.





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:21 PM Edit Post
Mcian – regarding Eddie and Angle being in separate matches at NWO. There is a way you could get the two involved in a storyline…Though the addition of Goldberg totally doesn’t help. You can have Angle interfere in the Eddie/Lesnar match as well, turning him heel on Eddie, and maybe leading up to the fact that ‘he’ attacked Eddie a few weeks back on Smackdown. This would be the only logical solution to have the both of them feud at wrestlemania.

However, I just don’t know what the fed is going to do with the WWE title. It seems like a mystery to me. I agree that there is no reason to push Goldberg due to his departure of the company after wrestlemania, but will Brock have the title by then?? In fact, I can’t agree more that Goldberg/Lesnar should not even be a title match, because it is a money match more than anything, and nothing else. The fed would be on crack to put any title on the line.

By the way, I don’t even understand why Big Show and Cena are in a triple-threat match for the WWE title…Shouldn’t they be feuding against each other to set up a US title match at wrestlemania?? That’s just screwed up…

I’m wondering what they will do with Lesnar and his title for the most part, but no way should Eddie win the title at NWO.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:24 PM Edit Post
Goldy/Lesnar needs more heat. Goldy costing Lesnar the strap ads that heat.

The SD after NWO, Angle the big babyface, can come out to contradulate Eddie and viciously turn on him ( "It's MY title!").

I just think Lesnar/Goldy needs more heat (Goldy costing Brock the strap) and Eddie/Angle needs a bigger issue (the title).

The onply problem is, Eddie's challenge is very similar to Benoits and if Eddie wins the title at NWO, he sort of scoops Benoit's heat. But if Benoit is burried in a three-way match, it won't matter anyway.

I still say the possibility exists that Benoit will not win the title until Backlash in Edmonton.

Remember, all the insider news about Benoit jumping to RAW was so HHH would have a credible opponant that would look good JOBBING to him, not taking his title.

HHH is just the kind of ass that would beat Benoit at WM, throw a ton of heat on the Backlash rematch and beatc Benoit again, this time in his hometown.

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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:26 PM Edit Post
An Angle heel turn could make that work but I am still confused about how they will get Goldberg into the title picture.

Just have to wait about another 6 weeks and see.





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posted on 2-6-2004 at 07:26 PM Edit Post
As for Cena/Show, what about the two of them doing a double countout or double DQ gimmick at NWO. It's lame, but it's just the kind of win for Angle that could add feul to his heel turn and make all three guys look good AND kickstart the big time heat between Cena and Show.
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