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Author: Subject: Who to vote for and why?
Pistol Pez
I am a pathetic troll






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 02:18 AM Edit Post
quote:
He didn't get the popular vote, whatever other vote he got. So it's basically that he became president despite a lack of popularity.

What did happen is a lot of people questioning whether LSU should have gotten the trophy at all.


the trophy resides in Louisiana, and the Bushes reside in the White House. All the debate in the world will change neither of the two facts, no matter how blue your face becomes. He was elected and thus, by definition, he is electable. This discussion is dumb. Move on. Really.

quote:
Iraq didn't declare war on us, just to remind you. You can argue other reasons for or against the attack, but there is still no evidence Hussein was supporting terrorist actions against us.


And whatever armed soldiers may be roaming the streets aren't necessarily looking for Iraqis, so that works out rather well, doesn't it?

quote:

That is the Government's problem, Constitution or no. You can't just keep looking at need and poverty and dismiss it with a "Oh, sorry, can't help, it's not in the Constitution."

Individual people are obviously not doing enough, and therefore the Government needs to do more.


And that attitude, my friend, is exactly what's wrong with America. Congress ain't your mommy.

quote:

When they change the color and tell us "Vague threats of evil destruction. No idea where, but be alert, and carry duct tape," every few weeks, that does nothing to increase alertness and does do alot to increase terror. Vaguely specified threats increase hatred, increase terror, but don't do much to let us know what to watch out for. Other then evil Muslims with silly turbans.


That's fun. I've missed the panic, but then, I live in a little meaningless corner of the world unlikely to be hit until everyone's moved here because their city has already been nuked. No doubt, the folks where you live have been scared silly. Do you have some facts here anywhere, or did you think up this theory in your spare time?

quote:
quote:

because we all know that, no matter what, Bush doesn't want to live in a PLEASANT country.


Let's see:

Unspecified threats that keep us all scared and more willing to bend to Bush's will? Check.


well, it obviously hasn't worked on you. He'll have to think of something else.

quote:
Several ongoing, badly planned occupations doing nothing to help peace and a lot to breed new terrorists? Check.


Yep, the skyscrapers are falling like rain, aren't they? This just hasn't worked at all.

quote:
The Patriot Act, the biggest destroyer of personal liberties in this country, all brought about because Bush makes sure we are constantly scared? Check.

Hmmm, you might be right. The campaign finance reform act was pretty repressive too, though. And that thing where they didn't give a lot unborn babies the chance to be born, that sure killed a lot of personal freedom (but just for them, of course). Shoot, the income tax rate required to finace this is as repressive as anything I've ever encountered.

Seriously, I think you're probably right. But also, our freedoms have been slowly been infringed upon for years.

Incidentally, when did you become a big Constitutionalist? Earlier in this post, it wasn't that big of a deal. I applaud your change of heart.

quote:
A 6 pack of Guiness and Adult Swim? Priceless.


I'm a youth minister and wouldn't know, but I'm glad you had fun.

Now repent.

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benoitbrokemyneck
John Edwards is a faggot.






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 02:26 AM Edit Post
I regress Krydor, it was not your first decent comment here, maybe it was your 2nd, the rest though man..... I guess I get worked up when I see somebody attacking someone for such a trivial mistake, while they preach the virtues of a man that has filled books (2 and counting) with stupid comments, most of which aren't just little grammer errors, but just plain out ignorance. Sorry if I rubbed ya the wrong way man but seriously, everything you posted between your 1st and last comments was just nothing more than a distraction from what was shaping up to be one of the rare threads in the CE that doesn't devolve into partisan bickering. I felt a lil cheated in that you seemed pretty keen on drudging up as many links/quotes/examples as humanly possible to in essence create an arguement. I apologize.
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ArmyofOne
Man of a Thousand Holds






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 02:51 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by chretienbabacool
He didn't get the popular vote, whatever other vote he got. So it's basically that he became president despite a lack of popularity.

President Bush won the ELECTORAL VOTE. The United States is a Republic. Its in our Constitution. He won fair and square. The Electoral Vote is the only thing that matters. It has happened before where a President didn't win the popular vote and still won and I would bet it will happen again and that's fine, I like our constitution. If you want to talk popularity, I guess it should be said that President Bush won 37 or 38 states in the 2000 election. That's pretty damn impressive.

Back on topic. The thing that pisses me off most about the Gang of 9 is that I rarely ever hear what they plan on doing when they get into office. I just hear about what they think Bush is doing wrong. I don't give two shits what you think he's doing wrong, tell me what you want to do and how you would change it. Alot of questions, bullshit at that, but not a whole lot of answers. Just tells me they are all running for the nomination and little more.
Bush can easily wipe the floor with any of the Demoncat nominees. It is going to be no contest. Bush didn't get a mandate last time, but he has done a good enough job to EARN a mandate now. That's more important, that he has done the work to get that swing percentage on his side. Take away the fringe drawing Dean and the joke nominees (i.e. Kucinich and Sharpton), Clark, Kerry, Edwards, Leiberman, and Gephardt and all pretty much moderates and have similar stances to Bush, Taxes and Foreign policy would be the exceptions. With them being pretty similar, is average Joe voter gonna vote for someone with words, or is that person gonna vote for someone with words and has the experience and actions to back it. Bush is gonna win, its real easy.





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OO Kyle
The Rowdy One






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 03:09 AM Edit Post
quote:


Yep, the skyscrapers are falling like rain, aren't they? This just hasn't worked at all.



Amazingly enough, prior to the events of 9/11 we didn't have the Patriot Act, soliders in the streets or troops dying in occupation of Iraq, and yet somehow we went over 200 years with no "skyscrapers falling". Let's DEFINATELY applaud our current police state, since it's managed to keep us in the blissful state of "no skyscrapers falling" that we enjoyed for the two centuries PRIOR to 9/11.

I guess it's time to drag out Benjamin Franklin again: "Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."

[Edited on 1-8-2004 by OO Kyle]





Stand back! There's a HURRICANE coming through! Several, in fact!

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FusionFistCutter
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 03:17 AM Edit Post
quote:
I guess I get worked up when I see somebody attacking someone for such a trivial mistake, while they preach the virtues of a man that has filled books (2 and counting) with stupid comments, most of which aren't just little grammer errors, but just plain out ignorance.


The problem here is that Bush is IN OFFICE, he's an incumbant, he can say all the dumb, stupid, and downright laughable things he wants and it doesn't matter, he has the job (for now). What Krydor pointed out was that in trying to OBTAIN said job, saying dumb, stupid, and downright laughable things is not going to get you into the Oval Office. Regardless of whether or not what WE think Dean said about Russia was dumb, stupid, or downright laughable, it is NOT going to be shrugged off by the majority of Americans when the ad blitz from the RNC begins. I don't believe Krydor was attacking Dean, just merely pointing out that the man is not helping his campaign out at all by saying what some people might think are dumb, stupid, and downright laughable comments.

Which makes me think, with all the books of Bush-isms published and all the retarded things he comes out and says on (what seems like) a daily basis, why hasn't the Democratic Party utilized the same tactics that the RNC most likely will when Dean wins the party nod? The whole Democratic Party seems like a bunch of deer in the headlights, frozen and unsure how to actually take some action together and win this thing, instead content to bicker amongst themselves until the 11th hour is here and Bush is declared the winner before the polls even close that night...





!

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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 03:31 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by FusionFistCutter
Which makes me think, with all the books of Bush-isms published and all the retarded things he comes out and says on (what seems like) a daily basis, why hasn't the Democratic Party utilized the same tactics that the RNC most likely will when Dean wins the party nod? The whole Democratic Party seems like a bunch of deer in the headlights, frozen and unsure how to actually take some action together and win this thing, instead content to bicker amongst themselves until the 11th hour is here and Bush is declared the winner before the polls even close that night...


Because it would come off far too petty and juvenile. As you said, there's a difference between the champion and the challenger. People like to believe that they know the President, and they probably have some sort of idea of who he is (how accurate or deep it is depends on the person and his sources, obviouslly). If you start bombarding people with silly mispronuciations and "California is the largest state" I imagine you'll offend more people than you attract. If the President is the idiot you try and paint him as people don't want to start thinking they had no idea... which means they either look past these or do exactly what Magnus suggested about the Dean stuff... they presume it was a simple mistake it would take an asshole to jump on it. The new candidate is different since the odds are you don't know him. Someone tells you that this guy is stupid and tosses in some video to prove it, what reason do you have to disagree? Its different when I tell you that the guy you just met is an idiot than when I tell you the guy you've known for 3-4 years is an idiot. Or at least that's my impression...

And I agree with you that the DNC is largely a mess and has no real unity. They don't seem to play the game nearly as well as the RNC and seem like they're waiting for the next Bill Clinton to emerge from this crop and woo America so they can then get behind him. I am ALSO in the party of people who believes that the entire party is in turmoil and will remain so until Hillary decides she wants to run in 2008 and organize things a bit.

But I'm really not a political mind. I'm gonna wait around with Chris is Good for the smarter people to talk.





He smiled.

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olfuzzybastard
Waaaallllllllllllt!!!!!






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 03:49 AM Edit Post
Actually - the Supreme Court stopped the counting of votes in Florida before they had final results. Bush may have won the electoral vote. He may not. We'll never know.

quote:
Originally posted by OO Kyle
quote:


Yep, the skyscrapers are falling like rain, aren't they? This just hasn't worked at all.



Amazingly enough, prior to the events of 9/11 we didn't have the Patriot Act, soliders in the streets or troops dying in occupation of Iraq, and yet somehow we went over 200 years with no "skyscrapers falling". Let's DEFINATELY applaud our current police state, since it's managed to keep us in the blissful state of "no skyscrapers falling" that we enjoyed for the two centuries PRIOR to 9/11.

I guess it's time to drag out Benjamin Franklin again: "Those who would sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."

[Edited on 1-8-2004 by OO Kyle]


All the answers in the universe can be found in The Simpsons. From the episode "Much Apu About Nothing":

HOMER: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.

LISA: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.

HOMER: Thank you, dear.

LISA: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.

HOMER: Really? How does it work?

LISA: It doesn't work.

HOMER: Uh-huh.

LISA: It's just a stupid rock.

HOMER: Uh-huh.

LISA: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?

HOMER: ..., ...Lisa, I want to buy your rock.

[Edited on 1-8-2004 by olfuzzybastard]

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Krydor
The Man






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 03:55 AM Edit Post
Eli,

What seems glaringly obvious is that Dean has a tendency to say stupid things. I know, by years of observation, what the Republicans will do with it. The Democrats did the same thing to Bush I and Bab Dooole. The RNC smells the blood in the water.

I keep track (naturally) of what the political commercials are. There was one airing in Iowa (I think) that simply took the words of the front runners, video and all, added a voiceover at the end and it made the Democrats look like dumbasses. There was some whining by the Democrats featured that it made them look unpatriotic, but the words were theirs.

Are you laboring under the false impression that this won't be the dirtiest election on record? Wake up and smell the coffee, dude. It's high stakes stuff. Willie Horton Ad+ Stupid Hat+ Impassive about hypothetical rape of wife=Bush Landslide in 1988. Any of that relevant? Nope. Does it matter? Yep, perception is the key.

Is there some mental block that disallows the possibility that the RNC/Bush Team will not use whatever comes their way? Dean opens his mouth, and his poll numbers in the mainstream drop while his core support solidifies. That's bad news. He's got 20% of the vote no matter what. As it sits he has 37%, which means the 13% that would vote Democrat over Bush will not vote for Dean over Bush.

It has disaster written all over it. He's not a savior, here to save the Democrats from the wilderness. "Anger" is not a campaign platform. If he gets the nod, he'll go center (or try to), but there are hours of hilarious spittle flying moments from the primaries that will work their way into RNC ads.

The RNC hasn't even started going after anyone, and won't until the nominee is picked. If they do nothing, and Dean looks like a dumbasss based soley on his personal appearances and media coverage, then he's in a world of hurt come November.

So, Dean, on issues, is the anti Bush. That's mainstream poison (he also has a crappy personality, and can barely manage a smile). Certain folks on this board (I'm not sure if I can include you or not) are inhabitants of the political fringe. There's a, dare I say, elitism and total misread of the political climate amongst those on the fringes.

For every Pat Robertson certain that America wants to follow God with him as God's mouthpeice there's a Kuchinich positive that America is demanding socialized medicine and "green power". They sit in their insular societies getting feedback from people with no perceptable ideological difference and think it's a valid representation of the mainstream.

Chretienbabacol, for instance, is convinced that there is a deep resentment for Bush because of the 2000 election, and it will sweep away the sitting president in a wave of righteous indignation. That may have had legs if the midterms showed a backlash, but the opposite is true. However, the theory is reinforced simply because of the social circle he inhabits.

I've been branded a right wing ideologue on this board, which may well show how far left the political climate round these parts is. I lean right on economic issues and left on social issues. I believe in self determination and limited government involvement. Freedom of speech and association and all kinds of thingamajiggers and such. I don't care if gays marry or pot is legal, I think the war on drugs is just dumb. The Patriot Act isn't a good thing and high taxes are bad.

In spite of all this, simply because I think GWB is the best man for the job right now, I'm a few degrees left of Nazi Gay Bashing KKK member. If the Democrats put a credible candidate in the race, I'll be the first one to cheer. Dean isn't it. Why isn't Dean it? The RNC wants him to be the nominee and the DNC powerbrokers don't.






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Krydor
The Man






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 04:18 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by benoitbrokemyneck
I regress Krydor, it was not your first decent comment here, maybe it was your 2nd, the rest though man..... I guess I get worked up when I see somebody attacking someone for such a trivial mistake, while they preach the virtues of a man that has filled books (2 and counting) with stupid comments, most of which aren't just little grammer errors, but just plain out ignorance. Sorry if I rubbed ya the wrong way man but seriously, everything you posted between your 1st and last comments was just nothing more than a distraction from what was shaping up to be one of the rare threads in the CE that doesn't devolve into partisan bickering. I felt a lil cheated in that you seemed pretty keen on drudging up as many links/quotes/examples as humanly possible to in essence create an arguement. I apologize.


The person not being partisan is me. I'm laying out for you the problems that Dean will face should he get the nod. As a supposed right winger, I should be estatic that that twit is the frontrunner, because he's dead before he starts.

However, I've been saying throughout this thread that giving Dean the nomination is a freaking bad idea. Is that the sound of a partisan idealogue? No, it's the sound of common sense.

There seems to be a misconception that Dean is made of Teflon and Bush is just on the edge of losing all 50 states.

As for trivial mistake pointing outedishness... There's a huge goddamn beam in your eye, so don't worry about the mote in mine.






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Pistol Pez
I am a pathetic troll






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 04:22 AM Edit Post
Oh, so . . . since 9/11 was only a single day in history that's already over, extra security is a bad idea? We should just continue our pleasant lives and persuade the president to shoot an olive branch into Osama's cave instead of missiles? Is that your solution?

I mean, I'm sorry if the mean soldiers and their big guns scare you, but your emotional distress isn't a good foundation upon which to formulate a plan for national security.

I've already tentatively agreed with you about the Patriot Act. I'm roughly familiar with it, and it certainly doesn't sound kosher to me.

Well fuzzy, Kyle threw out a bunch of sensationalist propoganda (the name of a governmental department name SOUNDS like something out of Nazi Germany? I'm still laughing.) and I wasn't exactly looking to write a college textbook reply to a post that didn't warrant it. But, a small bit of substance then:

You don't know whether any attacks have been averted or not. Well, there was that truck driver from Columbus who was going to blow up the Brooklyn Bridge, but let us not quibble with facts. Terrorist cells have been arrested, funds have been frozen, and existing cells have to keep low to the ground to keep from being found. Neither you or I knows how many lives, if any, that activity has saved. The absence of successful terrorist activity in the US (And Canada, of course. We made it a point to make this thread bi-national, so I'd hate for my Canuck brothers to feel left out) would seem to me to be a good thing. What kind of proof do you want that it's working?

And while I'm on the subject, the "war on terror" has been going on for, what? Has it been two years yet? Microwaves and McDonalds have cut the time it takes to get dinner to a fraction of what it took in 1915, but nobody's developed a microwave for war and reconstruction yet.






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Pistol Pez
I am a pathetic troll






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 04:28 AM Edit Post
Since I think that, if the Bush presidency is to implode it will not be until well into his second term, and he will win this election in a walk: I'm pulling for the most entertaining Democrat out there - Al Sharpton






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Chris Is Good517
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 04:38 AM Edit Post
Well, at the risk of drawing a lot of ire from some of the He-Man Bush Haters that seem to be lurking around here, I'll go ahead and fess up: I don't think Bush is doing such a terrible job. Is he as good as Clinton was? Well, no, I don't really think so. Better than I think Gore would have been? Absolutely. I don't know much about Ralph Nadir, so I can't say with any conviction whether Bush is a better man for the job than him, but what chance did he really have, anyway? Like I said earlier in this thread, I don't know very much about politics, but I don't see anyone not running in the two major parties winning the presidency anytime in at least twenty or thirty years. I'm getting off-track, here, though. I don't hate Bush. Yes, he's said some incredibly stupid (but mostly harmless) stuff, but that hasn't affected me any outside of giving me something to howl at when Letterman makes a joke out of it. Of course, I'm not so closed-minded that I won't listen to Magnus, BBMN, or whoever else to tell me their reasoning behind why Bush is a terrible man/president, but as probably the poster child for the uninformed American voter, I don't see why Bush Is Bad (copyright Ultra Magnus 2004)





Monday Night Flaw, a podcast about professional wrestling starring OO's own Figure Foreskin as Andy the Smarmy Host and Chris Is Good517 as Cousin Balki.

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benoitbrokemyneck
John Edwards is a faggot.






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 04:56 AM Edit Post
If you want to know why some people are saying he is so bad Chris, go look at the two videos I linked directly to in the "Bush in 30 Seconds" thread. They are more than damaging, they are true. I couldn't back anyone Rep/Dem/Green/3rd that had videos like these made about them.
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OO Kyle
The Rowdy One






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 05:23 AM Edit Post
Would "Ralph Nadir" be the lowest point of all possible Ralphs?





Stand back! There's a HURRICANE coming through! Several, in fact!

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ArmyofOne
Man of a Thousand Holds






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 07:43 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
Well, at the risk of drawing a lot of ire from some of the He-Man Bush Haters that seem to be lurking around here, I'll go ahead and fess up: I don't think Bush is doing such a terrible job. Is he as good as Clinton was? Well, no, I don't really think so.

Eh Chris, I agree with you, I think Bush is doing a good job, however comparing him to Clinton is impossible and shouldn't be done. Let's face it, and you have to be honest, he is steering us through some of the most tumultuous times we have ever seen. 9/11 was awfully tough to get through, and he had to make some tough, tough decisions in the aftermath. Clinton never had anything even closely resembling that and further there is no way we can try to fantasy book it about how he would have handled things post 9/11. Clinton was good, as was Bush, despite both admins dropping the ball a bit with 9/11, however they are being proactive now.

'Actually - the Supreme Court stopped the counting of votes in Florida before they had final results. Bush may have won the electoral vote. He may not. We'll never know.'
OFB, how many times did you want them to recount? Lemme guess, until you found the result you wanted. They had already had the original count and 1 or 2 other counts. Shit even the US Census of 2000 says that Bush won Florida by 1,000 votes. SOOOOO.... YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT. Let it go. Your favorite President is gonna be around for another 4 years too. Its driving you mad and I love it.





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Ultra Magnus
Man of a Thousand Holds






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posted on 1-8-2004 at 07:56 AM Edit Post
quote:
I've seen alot of other arguments around here turn into Krydor bashing, but why the extreme hatred on this one?


The anger stems from Krydor deciding to participate in spouting a sleazy sleazy sleazy argument about Dean's brother being a political liability. Anyone that would be so disrespectful to someone who was murdered for no reason by foreign millitants gets me pissed off.

Had Krydor suggested, perhaps, that the Republicans would attempt to exploit some "scandal" surrounding Dean's brother, that would be one thing. I'd argue that no one would even consider mentioning Dean's brother, because it's sympathetic to Dean in the first place, and a complete campaign killer if the public decided Bush was slandering a murder victim. He'd probably get about 4% of the vote. But I wouldn't get angry.

However, Krydor chose to slander a murder victim himself. No reason to be at all respectful of such an argument.

quote:
If you honestly can't wrap your head around what he's said about Dean and his gaffes being used as fodder for the RNC, then what country have you lived in for the past 10 years? Like he said, the majority of people are going to see a 30 second ad saying "Dean doesn't even know the Soviet Union doesn't exist" and make up their mind right there. You all know too well there are too many redneck idiots in this country getting a hard-on seeing Arabs blown up for Bush NOT to be elected.


Look, I wish it was possible to run polls in the middle of a thread, because I don't think you, Krydor, Eli, Kyle, or anyone else thinks that anyone that actually votes would be swayed by a commercial that says "Dean doesn't even know the Soviet Union doesn't exist." It doesn't even come close to passing the smell test. OBVIOUSLY, 99.99999% of the voting public and the vast majority of the public at large is going to see that ad and say, "I smell bullshit."

Krydor accused me and whomever else of "elitism," but considering that his premise throughout the entire thread is "The American public is too stupid to see through the trickery of super-smart Republican spinsters," that accusation is just a joke. I happen to think that Americans are a resourceful, hard-working, clever, decent and honest people. I happen to think that the American people are a hell of a lot smarter than you or Krydor give them credit for. If my thinking that the average American would be pretty pissed off that Krydor thinks they're all easy marks waiting to be conned makes me an elitist, then I'm a proud elitist.

If I had the time, I'd be sending letters daily BEGGING the Bush campaign to make "Soviet Union" and Charles Dean campaign issues. Because they'll alienate American voters on a massive scale that way.

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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 08:07 AM Edit Post
Army-

9/11 was all Bush and no Clinton, as much as you can blame either of them. Clinton pursued Osama Bin Laden to the fullest extent he possibly could pre-9/11 (i.e., he couldn't exactly engage in a massive bombing campaign against Afghanistan or anything), and submitted a detailed plan to capture Bin Laden to the Bush administration. Bush tossed the plan over in the corner, cut the CIA's budget, removed CIA agents from anti-terrorism, switched FBI agents from anti-terror to anti-drugs, and went on vacation for a month (plus, I believe, several shorter vacations) before even thinking about terrorism. On 9/11, after it was too late. Yep, Clinton pursued terrorism more than any president this country had ever seen, and then Bush instituted Operation Willfully Ignore. But, of course, all's well that ends well--oh, wait...

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ArmyofOne
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 08:38 AM Edit Post
Ultra-
There is no way you can say it was all Bush and no Clinton. That is just crazy. The planning for 9/11 had to have begun in the middle of Clinton's second term. Bush was in office for what, 9 months when 9/11 hit. You can't tell me those 9 months were what did it. There was planning on Clinton's watch, and they missed it too. Sure there may have been something on catching Osama, great, but the plan still would went down, that wasn't addressed by either admin really. Both admins screwed up, and I know you lean one way, but you are smarter than this to put all blame on one party, regardless of your hatred of Bush. Further, sure, Clinton did some to track down some terrorists and dropped the hammer on Iraq when needed, but its crazy to say he has done more than anyone. Afghanistan, Phillipines, Iraq. Thousands of terrorists have been killed, captured or badly scattered. There hasn't been another major to medium attack against American interests. He's doing a good job, don't let your hatred say he isn't, cuz its wrong and you are smarter than that.

edited for grammar

[Edited on 1-8-2004 by ArmyofOne]





OO's Secretary of Defense

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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 02:55 PM Edit Post
No Bush. Why?

484 Dead, 9,000 evacuated for serious illness or injury, god knows how many minor injuries, because of the dreaded Iraqi weapons program. That program?

This (from Washington Post):

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OO Kyle
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 04:20 PM Edit Post
Dammit Ultra, now EVERYONE will be building one!





Stand back! There's a HURRICANE coming through! Several, in fact!

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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 05:10 PM Edit Post
Sure, blame me, but this guy is spreading blueprints of even deadlier stuff.

And since half of you are too lazy to click the link:

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Krydor
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 06:59 PM Edit Post
Magnus,

Yes, you still can't read, I see. I withdrew my accusation of Charles Dean's politics. You still haven't been able to counter Dean's using of his brother in an impolitic way. He was asked if he had relatives in the Armed Forces, he said he had a brother that was POW/MIA. That, you tool, is my point. His brother was not in the armed forces, Dean said he was. Read it twice, then comment.

Dean sealed his gubenatorial records for 10 years. I'm willing to grant that it means absolutely nothing. The perception is that there is something shady going on. What's Howard Hiding? Sounds like a smashing title.

Once again, I'm putting this Soviet Union thing back here. No Soviet Union in 1996. No former Soviet Union involvement. DOCTOR Howard Dean is supposed to be smarter than GWB. "I can show the President a thing or two about foreign policy", sayeth Dean.

For about 2 years, I've read on this board how dumb GWB is because he doesn't speak clearly. I said "big deal". I also said Dean's gaffe is no big deal. But there was an addendum to that, the RNC does not see this as a minor matter. Unless Dean adapts to the scrutiny, he's done.

What is with this blind spot? I say Dean is essentially unelectable and there must be a better Democratic candidate. You don't see this stuff as a liability, but it most certainly is. 60%-37%. The RNC hasn't gone after Dean yet. Those numbers are just what happens when Dean does stuff sans Republican spin. That's media coverage and DNC leaks.

The Democrats don't like their party being hijacked by what amounts to malcontents. Do you think that going after Bush for 9-11 has any play? Do you think that rehashing Florida has any play? Do you think going after Bush for the economy has any play? What about the handling of Iraq and the prosecution of the war on terror? Oh, it has play with the same breed of people who just haterized Clinton. Doesn't have play in the mainstream.

I know it, the RNC knows it, the DNC knows it. The Deaniacs didn't get the memo.






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Eli
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 08:11 PM Edit Post
You are making your points well Krydor. But the ultimate outcome of them is just weak.

Perhaps the Republicans will use them against Dean but ultimatly the public won't care. They didn't care about Bush's DUI. They don't care about draft dodging. They didn't care about Clinton smoking pot or womanizing. They didn't care about Arnold's groping. They didn't care about Marion Barry's crack smoking. They just don't care about that kind of stuff.

You are right that perception is key but wrong about thinking the two instances you referenced will effect it.





The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.

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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 1-8-2004 at 09:31 PM Edit Post
quote:
Yes, you still can't read, I see. I withdrew my accusation of Charles Dean's politics. You still haven't been able to counter Dean's using of his brother in an impolitic way. He was asked if he had relatives in the Armed Forces, he said he had a brother that was POW/MIA. That, you tool, is my point. His brother was not in the armed forces, Dean said he was. Read it twice, then comment.


Howard Dean said his brother is (was) POW/MIA. Howard Dean's brother was POW/MIA, according to, you know, the United States Government. Even mentioning his brother in an attempt to score political points is an assholish thing to do. I'm sure you understand the implication.

quote:
Dean sealed his gubenatorial records for 10 years. I'm willing to grant that it means absolutely nothing. The perception is that there is something shady going on. What's Howard Hiding? Sounds like a smashing title.


What's (Valerie Plame) Bush (9/11 commission) hid-(Energy Meetings)-ing (Sealed Millitary record explaining why he didn't go to jail for desertion in time of war)? Sounds like a smashing title.

::ignores stupid Soviet Union non-issue::

quote:
For about 2 years, I've read on this board how dumb GWB is because he doesn't speak clearly. I said "big deal". I also said Dean's gaffe is no big deal. But there was an addendum to that, the RNC does not see this as a minor matter. Unless Dean adapts to the scrutiny, he's done.


Well, Bush's gaffes cost him the election in 2000, so perhaps you have a point. (Was that sarcasm, or a "He wasn't elected" shot? Maybe it was both! You'll never know!)

quote:
What is with this blind spot? I say Dean is essentially unelectable and there must be a better Democratic candidate. You don't see this stuff as a liability, but it most certainly is. 60%-37%. The RNC hasn't gone after Dean yet. Those numbers are just what happens when Dean does stuff sans Republican spin. That's media coverage and DNC leaks.


From GOPUSA.com, discussing a Quinnipiac University poll from December:

"Clark fares best against Bush in the poll losing 50-41 percent. Dean and Lieberman are defeated by Bush 51-40 percent, and Kerry loses 53-38 percent."

Yep. Dean, Clark, Lieberman, and Kerry are all pretty much exactly the same vs. Bush. Dean is unelectable, just like every Democrat, and we might as well all smile, bend over, and grab our ankles. Bush is UNBEATABLE!!!!!!!!

quote:
The Democrats don't like their party being hijacked by what amounts to malcontents.


Funny, I don't *feel* like a malcontent.

quote:
Do you think going after Bush for the economy has any play?


Hells yes.

quote:
What about the handling of Iraq and the prosecution of the war on terror?


484 dead, 9,000 severely wounded (not counting Navy, Marines, Air Force in the wounded, BTW, so that's a total lowball), to protect us from bad sketches. Osama Bin Laden a free man. CIA says we're no safer.

quote:
Oh, it has play with the same breed of people who just haterized Clinton. Doesn't have play in the mainstream.


Baseless hatred of Clinton = opposition to Bush's policies. Obviously.

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benoitbrokemyneck
John Edwards is a faggot.






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posted on 1-9-2004 at 12:23 AM Edit Post
{drum roll}

And the winner of " Best Use of Visual Aides in a Post" is.......

Ultra Magnus!

{cheering}

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