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Author: Subject: RAW thoughts 8/11/03
Slade
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:33 PM Edit Post
quote:
Lesner is still valuable because a) he's BROCK b) he main evented many PPV's including WM after his streak ended and c) he's BROCK.


Absolutely brilliant! You've persuaded me with your flawless argument. What really won me over was how you used the same premise twice. I still had doubts after I saw the first time, but you really hit it home for me by repeating it as premise number three. Not only that, but by proclaiming that Brock Lesnar is valuabe because he is Brock Lesnar, I sincerely doubt that anybody could ever question what his worth is ever again. Brock Lesnar is valuable because he is Brock Lesnar is the single greatest line of reason that I have ever encounter in my entire life. You've opened my eyes to a whole new world of intellectualism, one in which I can be a much wiser man because of the examples which you've set. And for that I can only thank you, Stormtrooper. Thank you, so very, very much.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:37 PM Edit Post
Jericho and Nash were both entertaining on RAW...so was Orton, Goldust, Storm, and a slew of others. In Goldberg's limited mic time last night, he came off as...ummm...there. By the same token, a guy like Jericho can lose to everyone on the WWE roster and use the same mic time to stay hugely over.

Also, look at RVD...he stayed over and popular even after he was beaten by Triple H for the Raw title last year...staying popular is a little bit of having stuff to do, and a whole lot of having an established character. If you persona iss so much so that you can't lose to stay over...then there are issues.

Oddly enough RAW and Smackdown both have a lot of guys who can stay popular or hated without being in major feuds...it's part of having an established character or gimmick.

Hey, if Lance hadn't gone through the "boring" stuff and have a history of being serious, would him reading "ass" a bunch of times off a cue card be 1/4 as funny as it was on RAW???

And actually, the one thing about this RAW that I liked (and Rick made note of) was that everything had some sort of story. Not everyone used there time to be entertaining while telling a story...but at least the effort was there.






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MrJustinB
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 09:32 PM Edit Post
Two things...

I think, personally, that Brock brings more to the table, wrestling wise, and is as good on the mic. Perhaps a tad behind charisma wise. But, Brock does seem to be closer to a full package than Goldberg was. Hence, when his streak ended, he had something more to fall back on. Of course, the point is made earlier, WCW made the mistake of basically doing nothing with Goldberg after his "big loss" and then lost all momentum with him. Whereas, WWE has done more to continue Brock's character past "the guy who used to have a streak".

And two, awesome flame, Slade. As many times in the past, you are my hero.





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nilesanderson
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posted on 8-14-2003 at 02:09 AM Edit Post
Yeah, Stormtrooper. You really have to learn how to back up your arguements a bit better. Saying "because he's BROCK" twice or saying the Undertaker is fat when he's not makes you sound like a massive boob. But what do I know, I had tried to kidnap a monkey over the internet.






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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-14-2003 at 04:01 AM Edit Post
Well, thank you Oscar Wilde.

I thought that from my "he's Brock" statement that it wiould be obvious that I was refering to his amatuer background, agility, mat skill, etc(the things that make him 'Brock' which Goldberg has none of, well the superkick is pretty agile for a guy his size I suppose. Yes Goldberg does look cool doing his 5-6 moves(the Gorilla press/Powerslam being a personal favourite) and he does have the total badass charisma to him when put in the right matches but he's really not in the same league as Lesner talent wise.

Thom: Fair point that it was WCW's(or more specifically Nash's) fault Goldberg lost so much of his draw/mystique after his loss, they did totally drop the ball completely while he just kept doing what he'd been doing before he bacame the victum of politics. Although him punching through that limo window was his fault and almost killed the character in my opionion, yes he still got big pops but as buyrates and ticket sales proove it was more of a "hey, it's Goldberg" than "we'd pay to see you" variety - but that's just my take.





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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-14-2003 at 04:03 AM Edit Post
how the hell did that smiley get there?, aw crap.





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Slade
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posted on 8-14-2003 at 08:52 PM Edit Post
I'm sorry. I had no idea that the saying "He's BROCK" could stand as a blanket statement for having a background as a successful amateur wrestling, for being very agile and for having impeccable mat wrestling skills. Now that I have been made aware of that, you're stating that Brock Lesnar is a valuable asset to professional wrestling because he's BROCK is an acceptable defense of Brock Lesnar is superior to Bill Goldberg.

Therefore in the future, when somebody like Mr. Justin B. or Niles Anderson asks me, "Why do you think Shelton Benjamin is a valuable member of the WWE roster?" I will reply, "Shelton Benjamin is a valuable member of the WWE roster because he's BROCK."

Conversely, when somebody like Jeb Lund or Mysterious Dr. X asks me, "Why do you think Mark Henry is not a valuable member of the WWE roster?" I will reply, "Mark Henry is not a valuable member of the WWE roster because he's not BROCK." That ought to indicate that he does not possess the qualities of the expression "he's BROCK."

I assume that from now on when I use this statement to justify my resons for thinking Shelton Benjamin is a valuable wrestler and Mark Henry is not that everybody will know what I mean when I say, "Shelton Benjamin is valuable because he's BROCK," and "Mark Henry is not valuable because he's not BROCK."

Moreover, after reading my pro-Benjamin argument and my anti-Henry I expect that some may agree and some may disagree. For example, Justin may agree with me and say, "Slade, you are right, Benjamin is BROCK. Because he is BROCK, I think he's worth staying in the WWE." However, Niles might disagree, and so he would say something like, "Slade you are a dumb wanker. Benjamin is not BROCK. He may have certain BROCK-like qualities, but those qualities aren't strong enough to be BROCK. I don't like wrestlers that aren't BROCK. They all suck and I feel like puking every time I am forced to sit through a match with one or more wrestlers that are not BROCK. Like I said, Benjamin is not BROCK, so he doesn't deserve to be in the WWE." And after I read this, Niles and I would probably get into a very heated debate over whether or not Shelton Benjamin is BROCK.

The same thing could be said for Jeb or Dr. X. One of them might agree that Mark Henry is not BROCK, but one of them may disagree with that assessment. Of course we all know that he who might disagree would be wrong, because Mark Henry is not an accomplished amateur wrestler.

In any event, Stormtrooper, I feel I should thank you for having told me what being BROCK is. Now that I know, I will not be embarassed in the future when somebody tells me that Kurt Angle is BROCK and I reply by saying something like, "No he isn't, you stupid cunt." I will now know the difference, and will also be able to use the term in the future. So, thanks, Stormtrooper. Again, you have taught me something new that is incredibly valuable. Thank you, Stormtrooper, thank you.

[Edited on 8-15-2003 by Slade]





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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OO Kyle
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posted on 8-14-2003 at 10:12 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Slade

Therefore in the future, when somebody like Mr. Justin B. or Niles Anderson asks me, "Why do you think Shelton Benjamin is a valuable member of the WWE roster?" I will reply, "Shelton Benjamin is a valuable member of the WWE roster because he's BROCK."



LOL.

Slade, despite consistantly having some of the worst .sigs in the history of the Internet, you are one funny MO-FO.

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MrJustinB
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 01:36 AM Edit Post
Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

I bow to your abilities to flame, and your BROCK-like strength in making people look foolish.





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doublee
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 02:34 AM Edit Post
Slade is a relevant, dare I say, valuable member of these boards because he is BROCK!!!!





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Bonestein
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 05:17 AM Edit Post
Slade, that was pure OWNED. I hereby pass a piece of my torch to you as the King of OO Flamers.

Maybe we should get a new name for that though.





That's racism man! I love to racism bro!

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Bonestein
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 10:56 AM Edit Post
Oh, and to add a Raw thought...

I thought Goldberg was fucking excellent in his match with Flair. He sold the figure four like no one has in years. Give him credit for at least TRYING to adjust from the unhurtable machine to wrestler guy. And as far as I can remember in my whiskey haze, he never blew any spots, nor gave anyone a career-ending concussion.





That's racism man! I love to racism bro!

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 05:08 PM Edit Post
if I wanted to talk to a pedantic asshole I'd just u2u Jeb.





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eoghann
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 05:10 PM Edit Post
Oh now thats not fair!

Jeb may be an asshole, but he's not pedantic! He's just very precise thats all.








What, you actually read this stuff?

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eoghann
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 05:12 PM Edit Post
As a matter of fact Bones, I agree with you about Goldberg. I was mildly impressed with how he kept on selling the leg injury as the match progressed.

I could mention RVD here, but we all know what would happen then.





What, you actually read this stuff?

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rasslinjunkie
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 05:29 PM Edit Post
Very good, Slade. Excellent roasting. Now, one question: what in the BLOODY HELL jumped up your ass? Jesus! Are you just honing your talents?

For the record, Stormtrooper, I understood you perfectly. Brock is valuable because he is BrockfuckingLesnar, and he walked into this company with enough amateur clout to earn respect from even the most jaded fans. He came into the company with an established reputation, both in amateur wrestling and OVW, and has since put on some truly fantastic matches.
Therefore, BROCK has earned respect.
Meanwhile, Bill Goldberg was a WCW-created fantasy, who has taken a good while doing anything of value. I give him credit for improvement, but the difference is quite simple: Brock really is a monster, while Goldberg is a fairy tale.

Point being, you knew EXACTLY what he meant by "he's BROCK," so don't be such a fussy cow about it, Slade. We all know you can mock and destroy; quit showing off. Or at least find a legitimate gripe.

*passes Slade a Midol*





Stop posting. Kill yourself.

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salmonjunkie
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posted on 8-15-2003 at 06:05 PM Edit Post
RJ, you're so BROCK and you don't even know it.






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Pistol Pez
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posted on 8-16-2003 at 04:42 AM Edit Post
If Chris Jericho had a huge winning streak of walking to the ring and beating jobbers in under 2 minutes, no promos, no storylines, just wrestle Meng 67 times in a year, he would be . . . a phenomenon???????????? He would be like Tatanka, but blonde. JR could talk about "the undefeated Canadian." Maybe someone could steal his hockey jersey or something.

So, because Goldberg would not be over on the strength of his interviews alone, he is a worthless wrestler? Jericho couldn't pull off the monster gimmick any more than Goldberg could pull off the cocky, smart aleck heel. There's room for both in the WWF. Learn to expand your tastes and you'll be happier.






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MrJustinB
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posted on 8-16-2003 at 05:24 AM Edit Post
I'm trying to picture Goldberg as a cocky heel. That might actually be pretty cool.





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nilesanderson
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posted on 8-16-2003 at 02:00 PM Edit Post
Hey RJ, I think Slade's point was that "He's Brock" is not a valid arguement, even if it has those undertones. What if someone who didn't know about Brock Lesnar's amateur wrestling past read that? He'd be thinking "what the fuck? what the hell is that supposed to mean?". Once Stormtrooper elaborated on what he meant, his arguement became valid. But he should have done that in the first place. "He's Brock" doesn't automatically imply an impressive wrestling background.






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rasslinjunkie
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posted on 8-17-2003 at 01:34 AM Edit Post
I know, niles, but my point was that Slade went a bit mental over the post. His burn was funny, but Stormtrooper kinda got incinerated over a post that was nowhere near deserving of such a reaction.
Slade was showing off, and went a bit too far, that's all.

Kinda reminds me of Brock's shooting star press at WrestleMania, actually........

How very BROCK of you, Slade.





Stop posting. Kill yourself.

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nilesanderson
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posted on 8-17-2003 at 04:37 AM Edit Post
But you must keep in mind that Stormtrooper has shown as of late how opinionated he can be. As a result, a major flaming was due. He needed to be set straight. Slade was just the man to do it. And he was great.






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rasslinjunkie
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posted on 8-17-2003 at 04:47 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by nilesanderson
But you must keep in mind that Stormtrooper has shown as of late how opinionated he can be. As a result, a major flaming was due. He needed to be set straight.


Uh...........okay. THAT certainly had a Stepford kind of feel to it. Wait.....I mean no it didn't. Yes, you're right. He did need to be "set straight." Opinions only cause discord and unrest.

I love OO, I love OO, I love OO.

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-17-2003 at 06:16 AM Edit Post
I am very sorry for having thoughts, it won't happen again. I love hosses, Chris Benoit has no charisma, Undertaker is a legend who deserves my respect, cruiserweight's are too small to get over, actual wrestling isn't as important as ridiculous plotlines and HHH is the 'best in the business'.





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The National Dudley
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posted on 8-17-2003 at 08:35 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stormtrooper
I am very sorry for having thoughts, it won't happen again. I love hosses, Chris Benoit has no charisma, Undertaker is a legend who deserves my respect, cruiserweight's are too small to get over, actual wrestling isn't as important as ridiculous plotlines and HHH is the 'best in the business'.


Hmm...the strange thing about this is...I actually agree with almost everything you just wrote, Trooper! Although, I would omit the word "ridiculous" and the part about the cruiserweights and that would be the summation of all my thoughts on wrestling today. I'm serious.

And it was mentioned a couple days ago, I think by Thom, that I blasted Goldberg for selling. Well, come on, I say anything too rash. I just mentioned that he looked funny just standing there taking Flair's abuse. Sure, he sold it when he was walking around and stuff, and that looked absolutely golden, but it looked goofy when he was taking it.

And that's the thing about selling: I expect it to happen. I shouldn't have to commend Goldberg on him finally selling a knee injury and selling it well. I shouldn't have to praise Benoit as a god of all things Canadian and Good and BROCK. That's one of those things that just should happen. I shouldn't have to look for it, I shouldn't have to bitch that it wasn't there. It should be there, all the time, regardless of if I'm paying attention or not.

More power to Goldberg for selling, though. He's finally doing what he needs to be doing.





Yeah, so it's fake. What's the big deal?

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