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Author: Subject: RAW thoughts 8/11/03
Krydor
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:17 AM Edit Post
Good Stuff, that Raw. The Main Even was well executed. People havea hard time booing Flair. Stupid no DQ stipulation! The Nature Boy was robbed! Damn you Micheals!

Molly could be the best person in the chick division. Screws everyone over to retain! I wound the tape back to see how close Kim came to breaking her neck, and it was damn close. Are the ropes lower in OVW? She didn't even clear 'em.

The Highlight Reel was fantastic, until Nash opened his mouth. The crowd wanted to cheer Y2J, you could sense it. After all, Nash was making fun of a hairstyle he shares with Chris.

The force tells me that there is a coach heel turn in the works. When it does happen, it may well be the funniest moment on Raw. Speaking of which, I enjoyed Goldstorm.

Nothing really crappy. Watchable show, all around.






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Thom
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 05:45 PM Edit Post
Dammit, I keep missing StormDust… I can’t believe nobody has complained about Coach stating that Booker T was already injured prior to his match against Christian. Sure, many of us on the net already knew, but it just kinda killed it for me when he contradicted Christian’s claim of injuring Booker. I guess kayfabe really is dead.

For Gail, yeah, that pescado was UGLY. As I put in the Gail Kim = Terrible thread, I want to like her – she’s got a unique look, and is (for the most part) able to put a little zest on some basic moves. However, I believe she really does need some more work in OVW or wherever. When she landed on the pescado, my reaction was, “Oh, shit- she just killed herself.” Not really killed, but still… I was glad to see that she was able to continue.

And yes, Molly is, IMO, the best female wrestler on the roster. I’d probably actually put her as one of the top 5 on the entire RAW roster. While she may not have the strength of most of the male wrestlers, she actually can put on a better match than most of them, IMO. And Pez was spot on – when Molly clotheslined Gail, I was like, “Oh, yeah, baby!”

Call me crazy, and I know you will, but I actually dig the Rosie’s da SHIT stuff. Sure, it’s only filler really, but you need some filler, and I’ve found myself laughing with the bits, and looking forward to see what they’ll come up next with the SHIT. Ya know, though – at the end of him helping the lady cross the street, and Hurricane stating that “No good deed goes unpunished,” I was actually anticipating Rosie saying, “Whasupwitdat?” That would have TOTALLY made that segment for me.

As far as the highlight reel goes, I have to agree with the general feeling on this one – Jericho was the man (yet again), but Nashole was almost putting me to sleep. Yes, X, I like it when guys don’t just yell all the time, but ugh, that promo was horrible. Perhaps it’s because the E scripts the promos, as opposed to just letting him cut loose? Maybe they’re trying too hard to push him as a face? Please, WWE, let Nash have his “Outsider” personality again.

Again, Pez got another of the little things right – Goldberg sells a leg injury well, and we hear jack shit about it (actually- Dudley even complained about it). For everyone who likes to complain about Goldberg, you now owe the man a little slack.

That’s about it for me!





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OO Kyle
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 05:55 PM Edit Post
Eh. I must be missing all this "Goldberg bashing" that folks keep talking about. Doesn't really seem like people are Hating on him the way they do on other wrestlers.

I myself hate the bastard because he copped out of House Show main event that I drove 350 bloody miles to see.

But he CAN have good matches. I thought his match against Christian was awesome. Sadly, his first match vs the Rock was one of the worst PPV matches in recent history.

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:04 PM Edit Post
"I myself hate the bastard because he copped out of House Show main event that I drove 350 bloody miles to see"

that's more than one mile for every second the match would probably have gone for.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:11 PM Edit Post
Goldberg has good matches with good workers...but that doesn't make him good. The prroblem I always had is that his value was around a streaak you could give to ANY big guy. Other then the streak he has been in crappy angles, and in matches where the quality is determined by the other guy.

On RAW, Orton made the match...not Goldberg. You could have had the match be HBK vs Flair and have RVD, Hurricane, or even Lance Storm do the forced 3 count thing and the match would have been just as good.






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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:15 PM Edit Post
You've got to be worried when i guy's best match was against DDP.





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Slade
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:22 PM Edit Post
Stormtrooper, what, exactly, should I be worried about?

Goalie, they tried to give Rodney Mack a streak and he still couldn't even get X-Pac heat. Why isn't he a mega huge star? Did they pull the plug too soon? Would Rodney Mack be as big as Goldberg if he had 110 wins in a row? Please, do tell.





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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:26 PM Edit Post
Goldberg, his best mactch imo and it's not like I'm a huge fan or anything was against DDP. Well, non-squash match i mean. Seeing he's worked with Jericho, Christian and Bret that's pretty sad.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:26 PM Edit Post
you know what...Goldberg had a lot longer of a run as "guy who wins without pops" then Mack did...

Also, at the time of the streak, Goldberg didn't have a gimmick revolving around him being held back for being Jewish...

There's other things too...the stogges in WCW hyped how awesome Goldberg was...they piped in Goldberg chants...and they gave him a pretty cool entrance...

In all honesty, Mack could have been pushed to main event status if he got a Goldberg like push...






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Blown Spot
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:31 PM Edit Post
So all the hype surrounding Goldberg is just that... hype? You mean his popularity is not undeniable? That all the pops and cheers and chants he got in WCW were manufactured?

We're all just being duped?





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"What I said was deliberately untrue. However, that does not make it a lie. It's what we call in sophisticated debate terms a "implyo-obliqué-prevariclative," which is a statement that deliberately runs counter to the truth and is not factually supported — which is totally different from a lie..."

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Slade
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:34 PM Edit Post
I guess so.





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:36 PM Edit Post
well I think the "Goooooooldberg" chant was part of the song origionally(much like the Hogan song that was used for the Superstars cartoon) and after a whil ethey toned it down when the fans started doing it, but if you watch WCW PPV's from Canada you can tell they've cranked it up to 11.





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Blown Spot
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:37 PM Edit Post
There is no way in hell Rodney Mack would be as popular as Goldberg with the same push.

That's just absurd.





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"What I said was deliberately untrue. However, that does not make it a lie. It's what we call in sophisticated debate terms a "implyo-obliqué-prevariclative," which is a statement that deliberately runs counter to the truth and is not factually supported — which is totally different from a lie..."

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Slade
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:40 PM Edit Post
Of course, he can, Blown Spot. Goldberg wasn't held down from being Jewish, and neither is Mack. That means Mack's winning streak would have made him the biggest star of all-time! OF ALL-TIME!!!

So, DDP had a better match than Goldberg than Jericho and Bret Hart did. So, he could accomplish something that neither of the wonderboys could do. There's no need to hate on him for it.

[Edited on 8-13-2003 by Slade]





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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MrJustinB
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:40 PM Edit Post
Actually, Goldberg picked up pretty fast after, say the Mongo "feud". One of the problems, actaully, was that fans were picking on him, and WCW still wanted to use the piped in sound. That's why at times you got a sort of "skipping" sound during his chants. The crowds weren't perfect with the piped chan, or vice versa.

That was how I understood it to be, anyways.

At any rate, don't you all think that part of Mack's problem is WWE's "ADD Child"-like symptoms. I'm not a huge fan of Mack (or Goldberg, for that matter), but they seem to give up on things quicker than they used to. How can the company expect a gimmick like Mack's to pick up if you give upon it after a few months?





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:51 PM Edit Post
so outside of the streak, what has Goldberg done?

seriously, outside of him winning the world title from Hogan, when did everybody have to see a Goldberg match?

And did you guys not see Brock get the Goldberg push? the streak made Goldberg, and once that was over he really had/has nothing to offer wrestling.

Unless you like his use of the word ass.






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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:54 PM Edit Post
Kurt had a streak too, but not with the monster thing of Brock/Goldberg





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Slade
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 06:58 PM Edit Post
I have never felt that I had to watch a Goldberg match. I have never felt that I had to watch a Chris Benoit match either. So what's your point?

Yes, I saw Brock Lesnar get the Golberg-push, as you refered to it. Again, what's your point? Do you mean to tell me that once he lost to The Big Show, he became a worthless talent and that he no longer has anything to offer to the world of professional wrestling?

And don't steal my bit, reekazoid. Only I may make fun of Golberg for his fixation with the word "ass".

[Edited on 8-13-2003 by Slade]





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:03 PM Edit Post
"Yes, I saw Brock Lesnar get the Golberg-push, as you refered to it. Again, what's your point? Do you mean to tell me that once he lost to The Big Show, he became a worthless talent and that he no longer has anything to offer to the world of professional wrestling?"

No, but after Nash putting himself over Goldberg he lost a LOT of his appeal.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:03 PM Edit Post
See, the difference is, once Angle and Brock had finished of streak angles, they still were valuable...Goldberg in WCW after he lost to Nash was just there.

His contributions on the mic and in the ring in WCW and the WWE post streak have been nothing of note.






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Slade
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:12 PM Edit Post
How was Lesnar still valuable? Also, how was Goldberg not valuabe and just 'there'? Please, do tell.





The award for the most laughable cringe-worthy attempt at clever colour commentary goes to:

"When you're dating The Architect, you start to get some more plans." - Renee Young, Extreme Rules 2019

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Stormtrooper
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:16 PM Edit Post
Lesner is still valuable because a) he's BROCK b) he main evented many PPV's including WM after his streak ended and c) he's BROCK.

Goldberg really never did anything of note after his loss.





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Blown Spot
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:21 PM Edit Post
We're entering Singled out or Crashing the Boards territory here.

Goldberg offered us that intangable something akin to an aura of invincibility. He looked the part and he sold it well. It was no nonsense, in your face, what you see is what you get, ass kicking. A stark contrast to what others brought to WCW at the time. WCW and WWF tried to recreate that by bringing in Shoot fighters similar in style but none of them captured that same appeal Goldberg seemed to possess, save maybe Ken Shamrock. I hate to bring this up but, I think much of the Goldberg backlash started after what happened to Bret Hart. I hated and I MEAN HATED what happened to Hart and at first laid much of the blame at the feet of Bill but have sense softened my stance.

No Bill is not a workrate god, but the sheep seem to like him. I do to, at times.

Rodney Mack does not exhibit the same qualities as Goldberg. Rodney does not play that same role. He is more akin to Bill DeMott than Goldberg. The White boy challenge is not the same streak as Goldberg's.

Now if you want to argue if Goldberg got the same push as Rodney Mack, would he be as popular - The Gentile Challenge? I don't know.

All I'm saying is Goldberg's popularity is not due entirely to his push.





"I like to drink wine more than I used to... anyway I'm drinking more."

"John Cena is poopy." - CM Punk to 6 year old kid on Jimmy Kimmel Live.

"What I said was deliberately untrue. However, that does not make it a lie. It's what we call in sophisticated debate terms a "implyo-obliqué-prevariclative," which is a statement that deliberately runs counter to the truth and is not factually supported — which is totally different from a lie..."

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Thom
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:21 PM Edit Post
Another thought… Jericho was clean shaven last night. Why should we give a rat’s ass about him making the challenge Nash’s hair vs. Y2J’s facial hair? I guess that’s the point, but it just seemed rather lame. Of course, that’s the only thing I have to question in regards to Jericho’s comments last night.





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Thom
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posted on 8-13-2003 at 07:29 PM Edit Post
Trooper and Spot had posted after I started my reply, so here’s a question. It’s more for Trooper to answer, but of course, if anyone has an intelligent answer, feel free… Actually, it’s really not for anyone to answer – it’s largely rhetoric.

Supposedly, Goldberg did nothing of note after doing the job to Nash back in WCW. Is that Bill’s fault, or WCW’s? I mean, if the company decides to do nothing with him creatively, you can’t blame him for not continuing to be HUGELY popular.





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