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Author: Subject: Is there a major Raw thread?
Clint Johnson
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posted on 7-8-2003 at 11:03 PM Edit Post
Is there a major Raw thread?

I didn't see one, but I did see indivdual posts about the show. So I'll post it here.

The Good:

- No Triple H, and I don't watch Heat.
- Booker T finally gets a WWE belt.
- Kevin Nash showing his old Big Daddy Cool self.
- Midcarders getting laid out by a mysterious force.
- Y2J's face pop during the first half of the HBK/Y2J interview.
- Victoria still semi-over with her Sycho Sid gimmick.
- Molly winning!

The Bad:

- Kevin Nash jobbed to a Big Boot, and might be canned soon. I know Nash sucks now, but if they'd book him like Diesel and kept him as a strong midcarder, he could be worth something. Instead the WWE considers him "crying like a bitch" and jobs him to Test. I think Nash is unemployed after this. I know the Nash haters will be happy, but they guy can still be marketable in the midcard as a strong force with a few wins in the midcard and then jobs to a up-coming star. This did nothing for Test, and it seemed more like a jobbing out for Nash. Damn.
- Is Kane Private Pyle from Full Metal Jacket now? or The Emperor from Return of the Jedi? I mean the scene with Austin, in the chair, looked right out of Star Wars and when he was in the ring and going "You making fun of me?" I thought he was going to then say "I am . . . in a world . . . of shit." I don't mind them making Kane a monster heel, but is he a retard now too?
- Ric Flair jobbing to RVD. I'd think having Randy Orton beat Bubba Ray would have been more productive, but at least it gives RVD some rub. However, Flair will almost job to a real broomstick now-a-days, so how much of a rub can it be. Must be a token win, for carrying Triple H to his best match in years.
- Gail Kim getting too much too quick. Victoria has been busting her a$$ for months, and she still jobs to Trish, Ivory, and now a green rookie that was not over. Victoria was over, Molly was over, and Trish was semi-over being it was Canada. Kim might be "the future," but she shouldn't be the Women's champion. Major snafu by WWE!
- Kane being the force that beat up Tommy Dreamer and Rico. They really should of had it be Evolution, or some other group that smarks and WWE says is dead. If they had booked Hall, Hogan, and Nash with "mysterious beatdowns" for two months and then show up and take over the program, then they'd been over when they debuted instead of becoming stale in a few weeks. But that's the WWE for ya. At least Kane is doing something different, so it wasn't a total wash.

The Ugly:

-Rosey joining Teddy Long, squashing the SugarCane, and then turning on Long and getting beat up by Mac. Why are they jobbing the SugarKane so much? Demote him as cruiserweight, or give him something new to in the Upper Midcard. As for this whole race angle crap. It is dead folks, get Mack and Rosey off my Tee-Vee. Well move Rosey to Smackdown, he'd fit better on that show.
- The second half of the Y2J/HBK interview. Why do a double turn? HBK was a face in the states, and Y2J is a heel. I doubt that Y2J could be a face inside the US right now. Why not have a face y2j vs. a heel hbk in Canada. I can only guess why, but its okay for Hogan to quit and not get his way, but some guy happens to be friends with the World Champ and we don't get a match until two weeks later, where Shawn will be the (in theory) babyface and Y2J will be the heel and have Y2J turn heel on the fans that gave him a monster pop. Damn that writing team, and damn Triple H -- and Triple H hasn't liked Jericho from day one -- so I know there has to be some influence there.

That is all.

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nilesanderson
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posted on 7-8-2003 at 11:33 PM Edit Post
Yes, the match is in two weeks because Shawn Michaels is friends with Triple H. Not at all because it gives an opportunity for them to build a mini-feud out of it with a huge payoff.
I read through your post, and while I agree with some stuff on it, and disagree with others, that last comment has to be one of the dumbest statements I have ever heard. Shawn Michaels isn't some guy who "just happens" to be friends with the current world champ. He's a guy who is paid his dues in the WWE, established himself as a legend, and is having one last run at greatness before he calls it quits (maybe). And he's doing a damn good job of it too. As cool as it would be to see that match at Montreal and as poorly executed that double-face turn was, this is a match that needs buildup, just because of the history behind it.
Also, it should've been Kane beating up those midcarders. Why? because it makes sense. Kane is, for the most part, the main focus on Raw right now, and I think he's doing a damn good job. His character is vulnerable right now because he is finally unmasked. He's insecure and unpredictable, which makes him dangerous. I find his storyline to be the most interesting one on WWE television right now, and I can't wait to see what they do with him. Maybe a win at Summerslam in a match against Triple H? Or maybe he goes on a hugely destructive run crushing everyone on the Raw roster that steps in his way before getting that chance. The cards are being laid out and played right as far as I'm concerned.






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Slade
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posted on 7-8-2003 at 11:53 PM Edit Post
I can't wait for the big pay off to the angle last night where Kane was beating up everybody. Kane vs. Tommy Dreamer at Summerslam, baby! Woo!





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doublee
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 12:07 AM Edit Post
Slade, you got it wrong. I'll eat my hat if Rosey and Rodney Mack are not headlining SummerSlam. Remember you heard it hear first.

Actually, I'm looking forward to the three way with Kane, Dreamer, and Rico.





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LuckyLopez
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 12:13 AM Edit Post
We're presuming that Kane got bad at Rico because of some kind of makeup dispute, right?

Well that's what I'm presuming. Great feud starter, I must say.





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Pistol Pez
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 02:23 AM Edit Post
Hurricane was great again. Did anybody else crack up when Rodney Mack tried to trip him and he stomped on Rodney's fingers?

I guess that, since the French gimmick wouldn't quite be over in Montreal as the WWF would like, Hurricane had to help out another storyline. The guy's entertaining, win or lose, and he gave a floundering wrestler a little boost. Good segment all around.

Molly wins! Unfortunately, I'm fear she's just cannon fodder for Gail while they save Trish for a money I cannot spell 'feud' down the line.






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doublee
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 02:28 AM Edit Post
Is La Resistance really over with anyone? They don't seem to get any sort of crowd reaction when they are on TV.





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Clint Johnson
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 03:51 AM Edit Post
Some good reponses here from everybody involved. I still think they're going to plan a Kane vs. RVD feud for SummerSlam. My major gripe is that Kane doesn't need to be a retard now that the mask is off. I wouldn't be shocked if Tommy Dreamer still wasn't beaten up by somebody else, like Evolution. I don't think they really established Dreamer was beaten up by Kane even though he didn't deny it when Austin said it. We'll wait and see on that one.

As for NilesAnderson's comments. You said "Yes, the match is in two weeks . . . because it gives an opportunity for them to build a mini-feud out of it with a huge payoff."

Listen to that crowd before they did that snow-job of a double turn. That crowd would have eaten up HBK/Y2J and it would have happened during the 1997-2000 era of WWF-TV hands-down. These two wrestled at Wrestlemania in a almost **** match. Just let them wrestle now. "This two week stuff is wierd to say the least." Unless Jericho is going on tour with the Smackdown crew next week.

You also said, "Shawn Michaels isn't some guy who 'just happens' to be friends with the current world champ. He's a guy who is paid his dues in the WWE, established himself as a legend"

As some people say about Hogan, Shawn's day is done. He has put nobody over (outside the Triple H circle -- which means Triple H and Flair and he got that job back in a tag match). If this means that Y2J gets the win that means something (ala Booker T/Christian), then disregard my ramblings.

You also said "Also, it should've been Kane beating up those midcarders. . . . Kane is, for the most part, the main focus on Raw right now, and I think he's doing a damn good job. His character is vulnerable right now because he is finally unmasked. He's insecure and unpredictable, which makes him dangerous."

There is a difference between insecure and unpredictable than being retarded. Have you ever seen Full Metal Jackett with Private Gomer Pyle/Leonard Lawarence? My opinion.

Finally you said, "Maybe (Kane will) a win at Summerslam in a match against Triple H? Or maybe he goes on a hugely destructive run crushing everyone on the Raw roster that steps in his way before getting that chance."

I doubt they'll do Triple H/Kane for SummerSlam. They should really try to do Goldberg/Triple H even if it is the final nail in Goldberg's coffin. Besides, Kane seems to doing a heel turn, so I expect RVD/Kane for SummerSlam.

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nilesanderson
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 09:21 AM Edit Post
Alright, IT'S ON Clint! You are the MFer's first target.
I too once forsaw Tiple H / Goldberg at Summerslam. And if it still happened, it wouldn't be a final nail of any sorts. No no no, my friends, you see the E is trying to PUSH Goldberg. And if they gave him that feud, he would win. But due things I've read recently (mainly regarding JR's comments on Off the Record), I'm under the impression they are holding off on putting Goldberg in a title feud.
Yes, I have seen Full Metal Jacket. No, Private Pile was not a retard. He was someone who had a hard time grasping military training and when he was forced to in the face of soap-beatings-a-many every night, he snapped and became dangerous. Maybe it's because he was insecure and vulnerable at the beginning of the movie. So you're comparison between him and Kane is valid, just not how you thought.
As for Shawn Michaels time past, I'd say he's not in his prime, but he's still shown that he can hold his own in the ring and put on a good match. He was forced to change his style of wrestling for the sake of his back and has been keeping up beautifully as far as I'm concerned. Now I must clothe myself and head to work as I have spent to much time on this post already, but I will be back Clint, oh yes, I will be back.






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doublee
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 12:31 PM Edit Post
"I wouldn't be shocked if Tommy Dreamer still wasn't beaten up by somebody else, like Evolution."

Umm, what exactly does Evolution have to gain by beating down Tommy Dreamer? I will tell you nothing. They are already established as the top heel faction on RAW and beating up a never was in the WWE does nothing for their status.

On the flip side of that the WWE is trying to build the indestructible Kane persona who is pissed off at the world right now and is going to beat up anyone who looks at him. I am not so sure they are building a Kane heel turn as of yet. I think Kane may be a tweener for a while. Austin is probably going to give him a huge rub next week on RAW when he comes out and pats Kane on the back for choke slamming him as that is exactly what he has been trying to get Kane to do for the past month.





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2HoT
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 01:09 PM Edit Post
Something about that post is eerily familiar...


http://www.OnlineOnslaught.com/OOForums/viewthread.php?tid=1673


Oh yeah... Hi ya #tcb





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Drunknow
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 10:57 PM Edit Post
This week, RAW added another good show to its bevy of them these past few weeks, and I think we can owe the recent string of quality to the split PPV system. After all, it gives the writers a lot of room to work around in, which allows characters to develop better. Kane, the star of the show these days, is the greatest beneficiary of this.

Shoot, in the old 4-week format, the E could never afford to:
--utilize all of the possibilities of Kane's new character (chokeslam Bischoff, choke slam Austin...)
--keep the World Champ off the show (I would have liked to at least hear the guy's name, though, just so new viewers would know that there IS a champ)
--give a Rosey v. Mack feud the time of day
--keep The Hurricane (he of the awesome leapfrog shining wizard off of Rosey!) on tv with his tag partner quest (which I'm sure they'll get back to once they're out of Bizarro World--get it, cuz he's a superhero? ehhhhh...)
--set up and build to a non-PPV match such as HBK/Y2J, which leads to a bigger benefit for the E, and that is that, given these properly-pushed feuds, Triple H doesn't have to main event every single week, like in the old days of combined rosters when you never knew if Austin or 'Taker or Rocky or Angle etc. would be in the main event
--give guys like Rico and and Randy Orton, whose faces are fresh, enough time to properly build up their characters into hate-worthy heels

However, the coolest thing of all is that we STILL aren't sure what RAW's main event for SummerSlam is going to be, and at this point, everyone is guessing, which means everyone is interested. That's more than we can say for the old format when, in Week 1, we learn that, say, Scott Steiner would be feuding with Triple H for the next month, and having the show be saturated by that feud due to time constraints.

The only really bad thing about RAW this week is the lack of Goldberg. I know that the Canadian fans may not like him that much, plus he may have an arm injury, but he should have been on tv. Even if they're not doing Goldberg/Triple H (I'd rather see RVD/Triple H in some gimmick match myself, and a Goldberg/Kane Battle of the Monsters!!!), they need to continue to build him up for his inevitable title shot (in November?). Being that they were in Canada, and being that he was injured, they could have had Goldberg rescue, say, Canadian hero (by way of Vegas, or vice versa : ) ) Val Venis from the clutches of jobber extraordinaire Steven Richards, setting up a match for next week. Just as an earlier poster sees a lot of midcard value left in the questionable Kevin Nash, I think Goldberg can be built into an intimidating force, even when he is injured.

All in all, good stuff this week!

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Clint Johnson
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posted on 7-9-2003 at 11:38 PM Edit Post
Going off topic a little bit, I haven't updated the Hogan site for over three years, except for the front page.

Back on topic, I think Raw was a very well done show. I didn't like seeing Nash job to Test for some reason, and I cringed when Kane beat up Austin because of Austin's legit neck problems. At least I'm kind of interested in what else they can do to Kane right now.





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doublee
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posted on 7-10-2003 at 01:30 AM Edit Post
"However, the coolest thing of all is that we STILL aren't sure what RAW's main event for SummerSlam is going to be, and at this point, everyone is guessing, which means everyone is interested."

Why would they announce the RAW SummerSlam main event now? The PPV is still seven weeks away.

"Kevin Nash showing his old Big Daddy Cool self."

How so? The old Big Daddy Cool would have decimated Test in about five minutes not job to him.

"Well move Rosey to Smackdown, he'd fit better on that show. "

Why? So he can job to A-Train instead of Rodney Mack?


The show was mediocre at best. Other than some of the stuff with Kane and Booker finally winning there was not much there to compel me to staying glued to me TV. Mack v. Rosey, who cares? Test/Nash seems like a filler match until Steiner returns to RAW next week. I just could not find anything that exciting about the show.





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Drunknow
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posted on 7-10-2003 at 05:00 AM Edit Post
<>

That's what I mean. If the PPV was three weeks away, we'd have known the main event probably last week, but it wouldn't have had proper build-up, so it wouldn't be as compelling.

As it is, we could go with Goldberg, Kane, or RVD as challengers to Triple H's title, and two of those three matches would have meaningful backstory just based on the last few weeks of television.

Basically, I like the suspense of this extended format.

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2HoT
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posted on 7-10-2003 at 06:14 AM Edit Post
Isn't SS supposed to be interpromotional?





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Clint Johnson
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posted on 7-10-2003 at 08:49 AM Edit Post
They really should have Rosie team up with Rikishi, and feud up the ladder for the tag straps. They can take on guys like the Bald-Headed Brothers and Team Olympica.





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madiq
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posted on 7-11-2003 at 12:47 PM Edit Post
I agree. A Rosie-Rikishi pairing would be about Rikishi getting his nephew to dance, which, though shitty matches would ensue, would lead to a pop at some point. A Rosie-Mack pairing, whether in a feud or tag team, leads to....

Silence. (Remember the Sprint "pin drop" commercials?)

I see potential in Harvard Soul (my nickname for Nowinski and Mack). Since the White Boy Challenge is over and done with, the Fed should devote that same amount of TV time to building chemistry to the pairing (matching black and crimson tights would be a start). With Teddy Long as a virtual catchphrase machine (Belee Dat!), keeping Mack as the strong-and-silent type while (a) hiding him in tag matches and (b) sending him to the tutors for "seasoning," would protect him from the scrap heap.

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