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Author: Subject: AEW 3 months in ...
DKBroiler
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posted on 12-6-2019 at 04:39 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
AEW 3 months in ...

Let me start this off by saying that I actually like AEW and enjoy it almost every week. This is not a troll attempt at all.

With that said ... in many parts of the Internet you’ll see the standard comments like “so and so would be so much better in AEW” no matter who it is. John Morrison was the latest WWE signing who triggered that response from many in places like Reddit or Bleacher Report.

My question is, do you actually believe that AEW has lived up to its reputation of being so very much different than WWE? Personally AEW repeatedly seems to be an attempt at R rated WWE, or WWE with 10% more swear words and meta references.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve enjoyed it quite a bit, and I’m happy that I’ve found some great wrestlers I didn’t know about (Rey Phoenix is a STAR for example), but I’ve yet to see any of the supposed creative and artist freedom translate into anything truly special aside from a few moves/spots/words that WWE wouldn’t allow for legal reasons.

Also, I’m wondering if the consistent exposure of guys like Kenny Omega have taken the shine off of the proverbial rose. 2 years ago he was “the guy” for the Internet, and now he seems discarded to an extent, which is ironic since I think he’s proven that he’s one of the handful of best performers athletically around. Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate how quickly us fans label someone as the best in the word?

Just kind of spit balling AEW thoughts here. Do you guys have any idea how they could make their show go from “good” to what the over the top expectations seemed to be over the summer?





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 12-6-2019 at 04:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
AEW’s highlights on TV have been Jericho, and Lucha Bros. Jericho has always been awesome. Lucha Bros have been awesome in most places they’ve wrestled.

But yeah, Omega’s line about wanting to tell stories as only he can, in a way that WWE wouldn’t allow? Outside of the brawl with Moxley, it was just more carny hype.

The difference between Dynamite and RAW is an extra hour, AEW having a women’s division just to have one, and RAW featuring wrestlers with years of over exposure. Oh and WWE in general having more guys who could hold a world title.

For as much as we all shat on Corbin vs Rollins, Jericho has had to use his mic skills to sell matches against guys who have less of case for being a world champ than Corbin. I think with a guy like Morrison, the case for AEW is that the roster is thin on main event guys. And this is being amplified by Jericho vs Moxley being done a bunch in WWE, and Omega vs Jericho being done all ready in AEW.

Also...AEW has a lot of guys who are faces (Cody, Bucks, SCU) who’d be better off as heels. Thankfully they made MJF a heel, so hopefully there is more changes to come.

Really, the big winner has been NXT. Lee, Dom, Archer, a bunch of the ladies, have all gotten to show just how much upside they have. Adam Cole has proven himself. Ciampa looks like a star. Balor has new life in him. And this is with Gargano and Dream mostly being mia.

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posted on 12-6-2019 at 05:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie

Really, the big winner has been NXT. Lee, Dom, Archer, a bunch of the ladies, have all gotten to show just how much upside they have. Adam Cole has proven himself. Ciampa looks like a star. Balor has new life in him. And this is with Gargano and Dream mostly being mia.



I don't watch AEW (there's too much TV) so can't comment on that...but fully agree with above.

I, like many I suspect, had a lot of concerns about what would happen with NXT now that it was 2 hours and live and network -> Vince getting his dirty hands all over everything and ruining "my precious".



This has not happened.

And in fact, the opposite.

Getting exposure to more people with the 2 hours vs. former 1 hour.

Folks are making the most of the new / increased exposure.

And they've delivered a consistent "B or higher" average grade every single week.

Yay, competition.





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First 9
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posted on 12-6-2019 at 06:04 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Also, I’m wondering if the consistent exposure of guys like Kenny Omega have taken the shine off of the proverbial rose. 2 years ago he was “the guy” for the Internet, and now he seems discarded to an extent, which is ironic since I think he’s proven that he’s one of the handful of best performers athletically around. Maybe it’s time to re-evaluate how quickly us fans label someone as the best in the word?




It's not so much the overexposure as the guy is starting from zero in AEW and it'll take time to climb back up to the BITW status he had in NJPW. Omega became a sensation when he won a multi-day tournament with great performances every single night, and when he went 45 minutes against Okada in the main event of NJPW's biggest show and did it while referencing years worth of continuity. Busting out the finishers of his old stable mates, referencing exchanges and holds from previous matches. The kind of stuff he just can't do in AEW, because AEW is a blank canvas and AEW isn't in the position to showcase him like that just yet. The closest comparison I could think off is Balor going from Mr. NXT to sort of lost in the shuffle on RAW. It's not that Balor was overrated, it's just that he was adapting to being on a very different type of show.

Another thing is that NJPW's schedule is just built to make their top guys look like the greatest wrestlers in the world. The shorter schedule encourage guys to go all out on ppv and prevents overexposure.Plus the G1 tournament is basically a workrate marathon. So now Will Ospreay is the shiny new toy and Okada keeps building up to cred to be considered the best wrestler of the decade.

[Edited on 12-6-2019 by First 9]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 12-6-2019 at 08:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Given that Balor's made an already interesting situation on NXT that much better it should be time to put an end to the silly notion that anyone going there from the main roster is somehow being demoted. That NXT has the best in-ring action and stories at the same time shows that they're the high-water mark in WWE right now. I'd rather watch a "middling" NXT show right now just for the freshness and fun instead of a "good" RAW these days.





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janerd75
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posted on 12-6-2019 at 10:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The vibe I've gotten from AEW thusfar is mostly Nitro-lite. And, as always, their Achilles heel in this era of a highly FICKLE™ fandom, is a dangerously shallow bench with no really decent draft picks on the board for future use. With wrasslin' being based on its own previous history leading up to and framing any given match/event (at least it should, lookin' at you WWE ), that particular well will be dangerously shallow for the foreseeable future.

Having Old Skool guys like Dustin, Jericho, DDP, Hager, and even Cody hisself are great for a little while, but eventually the same guys interacting will get tiresome after a while. Sheeeeiiiit, even WWE does it with endless months of stuff like Corbin/Reigns matches. Difference is, literally from one show to the next and with the talent they have on hand, WWE could put together a dream match by accident or intention, i.e. Cole vs. Bryan. AEW has no such roster or farm system to draw from in order to pull that kind of maneuver off. And Jericho can only call random dudes they're trying to get over "pieces of shit" (omg teehee, he said the bad thing on teevee!) and fight them for so long until the bubbly eventually catches up with him and Mox becomes their go-to vet with The Gravitas.

As much as I'd like to see her go to WWE just for the legacy and the video packages and amazing matches she could have there, especially with Cherlette, Tony Khan needs to back up a money truck and sign Tessa Blanchard away from Impact. Same with Jordynne Grace and damn near half the Impacts ladyroster as well or just don't even bother with a ladydivision at all. A couple frail looking Asian chicks, The Beast [REDACTED], Kris Statlander, Leva, Adam Cole's girlfriend, and sometimes Kong, just ain't gonna cut it long term.

To further some of my tremendous ideas, whoms't realistically would y'alls see making a difference in AEW right off the bat or in the near future would if they could be magically released from WWE or Impact or even NWA Powerrr? Again, realistically. No Rollins or Owens or Sasha or high-level folks like that. I'm talking Matt Hardy, EC3, Revival, Luke Harper, and Ruby Riott type folks. 'Cause, like, those are my picks.





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First 9
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posted on 12-6-2019 at 10:40 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75

To further some of my tremendous ideas, whoms't realistically would y'alls see making a difference in AEW right off the bat or in the near future would if they could be magically released from WWE or Impact or even NWA Powerrr? Again, realistically. No Rollins or Owens or Sasha or high-level folks like that. I'm talking Matt Hardy, EC3, Revival, Luke Harper, and Ruby Riott type folks. 'Cause, like, those are my picks.



Jeff Cobb and Brian Cage would make an immediate impact as AEW is lacking in power guys. Buff motherfuckers throwing people around is something they need more of.

From the women's side, you nailed it with needing to raid the suprisingly deep women's roster Impact has. Tessa, Taya or Rosemary could debut on Dynamite next week and quickly become the centerpiece of their women's division. But outside of that, there's still some great women who aren't tied down to any major players. Cheerleader Melissa and Ivelisse would be solid additions. Melissa could be a vet presence to help develop the other girls and if Ivelisse hasn't missed a step from her LU days, she could easily become the face of AEW's women's division.

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posted on 12-6-2019 at 11:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
The closest comparison I could think off is Balor going from Mr. NXT to sort of lost in the shuffle on RAW. It's not that Balor was overrated, it's just that he was adapting to being on a very different type of show.


I don't think Balor would have gotten lost in the shuffle had he not been injured by Seth Rollins during the very match when he became the inaugural Universal Champion. That injury certainly pushed him back into the middle of the pack. I don't think he ever really got any momentum going when he returned. The rest of the time, he was just there.

And you're absolutely right about AEW needing to get Jeff Cobb and/or Brian Cage as soon as they become available. Anyone who has ever seen these guys work knows they can really go. As a fellow Lucha Underground fan, I know you understand this better than most do.





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posted on 12-6-2019 at 11:32 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I've tried getting into AEW but I can barely do clips because I don't them cutting away to their crowd. WWE can get away with it because they actually have regular people show up to their shows: families taking their kids to see the big names and buy overpriced merchandise, a group of co-workers who won free tickets from a radio station that probably couldn't name a single person on the show, people who wanted to get out with their friends and dress up as the 90's wrestlers that they're more familiar with than Roman Reigns...those types of people. With AEW, every time they show the crowd, I just put faces to every stupid chant I've ever heard in wrestling history, because it seems like they're all IWC folks.

Also, on Janny's question in regards to "magical releases" (proud of you for not going further with that one buddy), pretty much every name listed there from WWE could do some good, but WWE seems intent on bleeding AEW dry of ready-made talent, based on the contract extensions and whatever the hell it is they're doing with Luke Harper. Sadly, though, I think AEW's biggest obstacle to success is TNA still existing. They don't need to anymore. They had their shots, they failed miserably on all of them, and now most of their former front office is working with WWE, as are their former best guys. Every person on their roster should either be in AEW, NXT, or whatever high paying indy is out there (ROH or one of the Japan ones). So the Khans should really just throw money at them until they disappear forever, and then WWE can buy up their video library so we can have some quality Samoa Joe and AJ Styles "Best Of's", and we all live happily ever after.

Also, an aside: I feel like we need to make Cam Ferguson more of a thing over the internet so AEW will hire him, too. And by we I mean you guys because the IWC hates me after I called them out on not being camera friendly earlier in this post.





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posted on 12-6-2019 at 11:47 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I can understand the complaint that the AEW crowd can be annoying. I've not seen a single episode of Dynamite. I've watched a few highlights and the occasional AEW Dark match on YouTube. From my limited exposure, and through making assumptions about the composition of the roster, I don't for a second doubt that IWC wankers are 100% of the live audience. They're also pretty much 100% of the NXT live audience, and they frequently have moments where they become super annoying.

That said, I also wouldn't be surprised if it was generally more lively a crowd than the typical WWE RAW or Smackdown crowd. There's something to be said about that. I'll take the parts of those crowds that I find annoying over the typical RAW or Smackdown crowd any day of the week because at the very least they sound like they're paying attention to and care about what is going on in and out of the ring. It's a better atmosphere than what you get on RAW and Smackdown. I swear those shows wouldn't feel so tired and boring if the fans weren't so quiet all the time. It's almost as if they don't even care that they're there.





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posted on 12-6-2019 at 11:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I've said it a lot when discussing the first few weeks of AEW vs. NXT, they just don't have enough main event talent and they aren't highlighting their one bright spot (the tag division) as much as they can. I know I have a disagreeing opinion on Jericho's worth, but you can't say Santana/Ortiz have gotten any rub from being part of his "Inner Circle." SCU/Luchas has been good, but it means the Bucks get lost a bit in the shuffle as a side act to Jericho's feud of the day since they seem to be backing up Cody/Dustin/Omega more than being their own thing. Private Party had a big win over the Bucks and I'm not sure they've been on TV since they lost in the tournament. Evans/Angelico, The Dark Order, Jurassic Era, now the new team with Allie...the depth is there in the tag division, it just doesn't seem to be a focal point.

And then that brings us to the singles acts...you just either have a bunch of old guys who are hanging on past their prime or a bunch of not quite ready acts as main eventers (Page, MJF, Guevera, Janela, Luchasaurus). And they can't run Omega/PAC/Moxley every week even if those are their three potential stars that could carry a company.

And I don't think it's TNA/Impact that needs to go out of business to help AEW though getting Callihan, Cage, Elgin and their women's division would be huge...it's actually ROH. Lethal, Cobb, Briscoe, Scurll, Bandido, Dragon Lee, Rush, Haskins, Taven, Castle...it's just a deeper roster that can flesh out a main event (Cobb/Lethal/Briscoe/Rush/Scurll) and a midcard (Bandido/Gordon/Haskins/Taven). They'd still have a pretty horrendous women's division since they can really only add Kelly Klein and Mandy Leon. I'd stay the hell away from Angelina & Velvet.

All that being said, they have their moments where it's not bad but they need a bit more talent and they (Cody, specifically) need to stop taking stupid potshots at WWE. It makes them look second-class. The Britt Baker meme being the most recent example.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 12-7-2019 at 12:14 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote


And I agree that AEW hasn’t utilized the tag division properly. That includes using the Lucha Bros as a team instead of as main event singles talents.

Also agree that nobody is getting a rub from the Inner Circle. They should be beating teams asses on the regular, not just look like a bunch of people randomly teamed up with Jericho even if that’s what they are.

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posted on 12-7-2019 at 12:35 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well I see I am not alone. Huh. Seems like the everyone agrees that the 3 biggest winners of the birth of AEW are Jericho’s Mount Rushmore candidacy, recognition for the Lucha Brothers and all things Adam Cole.

Cole is wrestler of the year at this point, right?

Edit - no, it’s still Kofi. Friendly reminder to not be a prisoner of the moment during December awards season.

[Edited on 12-7-2019 by DKBroiler]





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posted on 12-7-2019 at 01:00 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Also, an aside: I feel like we need to make Cam Ferguson more of a thing over the internet so AEW will hire him, too


What's "Mr. Angryman" Cam Ferguson doing in the Dynamite Zone, JR?!?!?!? [/obligatory]



[Edited on 12/7/2019 by Paddlefoot]





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posted on 12-7-2019 at 01:14 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Well I see I am not alone. Huh. Seems like the everyone agrees that the 3 biggest winners of the birth of AEW are Jericho’s Mount Rushmore candidacy, recognition for the Lucha Brothers and all things Adam Cole.

Cole is wrestler of the year at this point, right?

Edit - no, it’s still Kofi. Friendly reminder to not be a prisoner of the moment during December awards season.

[Edited on 12-7-2019 by DKBroiler]


3 Biggest winners since AEW got a TV show?

Adam Cole, Rhea Ripley, and Keith Lee. I don't know how that's even a question. The Lucha Brothers were already big and Pentagon specifically was already recognized as a great talent. Again, I think Jericho is bad for AEW but I seem to be in the minority on that. As for wrestler of the year...I still think you can give it to Cole, the last month just pushed him more in the forefront. Kofi had a great first 8 months, but the way he lost and the way he hasn't cared about it since really hurts him in my eyes. If he cared about being world champ, it'd matter more.

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posted on 12-7-2019 at 01:29 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
What was the calendar date of Wrestlemania this year? Whatever it is was is the last day Kofi was great this year.





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posted on 12-7-2019 at 02:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I guess midcarder of the year would be what's appropiate but R Truth deserves a shout out in terms of guys who stood out this year. From the US Champion who had always looked up to John Cena to making the 24/7 Title the most entertaining on RAW for months, the guy has had the midas touch. It's a shame the USA Network execs were apparently pricks and pushed for the 24/7 to be RAW exclusive which made WWE stop caring about it.


Kofi reached the highest peaks out of anybody with Kofimania this year but in terms of consistency and overall performance Adam Cole is the clear cut winner. It's sort of similar to last year's argument about wether Becky Lynch or Tomasso Ciampa were the wrestler of the year.

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posted on 12-7-2019 at 07:05 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
What's different about AEW? Not a hell of a lot, other than individuals being given more free reign to be themselves, something WWE ought to do more of. NXT has better wrestling and mostly better personalities - you can't argue with Adam Cole, Keith Lee, Finn Balor, Matt Riddle, etc. Moxley has been better in AEW, but I agree with any above statement about Omega underwhelming, although you have to think he'll get the strap eventually, and then maybe things change.

But Jericho? Holy shit has he been amazing. This is the Jericho we all hoped we would have seen for the past twenty years in his rock-star douche alpha-heel glory. I enjoyed all of Jericho's work in WWE other than when he was Steph's bitch, but who can argue that he couldn't have been the absolute man in WWE if allowed to be this guy? He combined all of the great bits of the past twenty years, made them new again, and made himself the most entertaining wrestler in the world AGAYN. If this run doesn't make him a top 10 ever lock, what would? Seth Rollins would dump his fiance to be able to ever work a crowd like AEW Jericho.

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posted on 12-7-2019 at 08:17 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk

But Jericho? Holy shit has he been amazing. This is the Jericho we all hoped we would have seen for the past twenty years in his rock-star douche alpha-heel glory. I enjoyed all of Jericho's work in WWE other than when he was Steph's bitch, but who can argue that he couldn't have been the absolute man in WWE if allowed to be this guy? He combined all of the great bits of the past twenty years, made them new again, and made himself the most entertaining wrestler in the world AGAYN. If this run doesn't make him a top 10 ever lock, what would? Seth Rollins would dump his fiance to be able to ever work a crowd like AEW Jericho.


Agreed, Jericho has been my favorite thing in wrestling since October. The hype package before Full Gear still cracks me up. “I remember when Christopher was just a young boy, I knew he was going to grow up to be AEW champion”.

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posted on 12-8-2019 at 09:49 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
AEW just didn't hold my attention. I watched for the first few weeks, but, while I liked some guys, it was kind of the same for me as Impact (in fact, I think Impact might quietly be better sometimes without nearly the hype). A lot of it got repetitive really fast. And nothing I've seen or heard about in the weeks since I mostly stopped watching have really tempted me to go back. I sought out the Mox/Omega match online, but that's about it.

The women's division being SO shallow and underutilized is really a negative for me.

Jericho's great, of course, but he can only do so much.

And, it can't be stated often enough, I just really don't like the Young Bucks.





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posted on 12-9-2019 at 01:07 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod

And, it can't be stated often enough, I just really don't like the Young Bucks.


Samesies. Sure they're talented with the flippity-dippity, superkick parties, and overly-choreographed moves, but in addition to their distracting and weirdly round baby heads I can't get the similar yet much better Hardyz or even The Rock & Roll Express outta my head while watching them. Sheeeeiiiit, I'd take the current R & R Express over the Bucks now.

Also, I genuinely think the newly unleashed Luke Harper, likely soon to be Brodie Lee, would have a career revival along the lines of Jon Moxley if he went to AEW.





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posted on 12-11-2019 at 02:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well count me in as someone who has really "got" the Bucks since seeing them in AEW. Thier understanding and use of psychology is fantastic.

The bit I don't get is that many here dislike them, yet rave about Omega, when they wrestle the exact same style! I still don't feel it works as well for Omega in singles but I appreciate it and it is genuinely evolutionary which is exactly what a new company needs.

I still feel the future is bright. We are now in the "growth phase" - just solid matches and basic storylines to build up interest and let us get to know people. The ratings thing, I still believe, is a great idea, but it takes time.

I really hope they resist the urge to stunt book for fear of dropping ratings etc. A little is fine but what can set them apart are long arcing storylines played out over years instead of weeks.

Brodie Lee will no doubt show up, but can he keep up? Give me a Darby Allen match any day..

[Edited on 12-11-2019 by SpiNNeR72]

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posted on 12-11-2019 at 02:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
DP

[Edited on 12-11-2019 by SpiNNeR72]

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DKBroiler
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posted on 12-11-2019 at 04:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Pretty sure the issue with the Bucks is in their appearance not their ability. Omega has next level athleticism on a higher level than the Bucks but the Bucks have plenty of it too. The difference really comes down to packaging. Omega looks just as athletic as he is. Aside from his odd haircut he doesn’t really have a gimmick aside from “I’m really fucking good at professional wrestling”.

The Bucks, conversely, do not look nearly as athletic as they are. Sometimes that can work in your favor - Kevin Owens - but other times, like with the Bucks, it works against them. They really do look like out of shape, 40 year old, Rockers cosplayers. That is a look that won’t work on big time cable TV pro wrestling, or at least has a limited upside.

I think the Bucks have 2 choices ... stay together and just be a long term upper mid-card tag team or break up. Both are great workers but in my limited viewing the dark haired Buck seems to have much more upside. A haircut and modernization of his gimmick could have him in main events quickly. The other Buck - who might actually be the better worker - simply does not look the part.

I know it’s internet blasphemy to talk about the look of a pro wrestler like it matters but it really does. Size for size sake does nothing, but visually when you have guys like Omega and PAC who have 16 abs between them it’s hard to look at a team of two skinny fat balding guys as credible.





Reigning, Defending, Undisputed, Half of an Award One Time Winner

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 12-11-2019 at 05:38 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
DP


Nice.





Well you know, just because these young men have little education and live in squalor, it doesn't entitle them to commit antisocial behaviour and get away with it.

it's a child molesting robot

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