The Online Onslaught Forums


By contributing to Online Onslaught, you'll help make sure we're around for years to come. Toss us as little as a few bucks, or as much as your generosity allows. Thanks!

Last active: Never Not logged in [Login ]

Printable Version |
Subscribe | Add to Favorites
<<  1    2    3  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: PPV DISCUSSION: WWE Survivor Series (November 24, 2019)
OORick
Monkey on a Rock






Posts 4405
Registered 12-27-2001
Location - The Birthplace of Aviation
Member Is Offline

Mood: See You in Hell ;)

posted on 11-25-2019 at 03:43 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Just a terrible idea to end on that match. Zero stakes, and even less of a compelling climax. No wonder it was so thudtastic.

There's literally a dozen better ways to lay out the show, which just makes it that much more inexcusable that somebody in power signed off on the worst option.

It's extra disappointing because of how good the rest of the show was.

Re: the red light..... on my TV, with very limited hue/tint/contrast/brightness options, I actually did do a glorified brightened black-and-white rather than watch the red light.

TV options suck, but it was an improvement and led me to wonder what you could do if you had full featured image processing/filtering, like you can do with VLC or whatever. I might have to download a clip or two and fiddle. If the stupid red light can be salvaged, I'll look for PC software that can do that image processing in real time and only watch Bray's matches on computer.

That's how dumb and annoying the red light is.

View User's Profile E-Mail User Visit User's Homepage View All Posts By User U2U Member
G-Spot
"El Diablo"






Posts 735
Registered 8-31-2008
Location J-Town Pa.
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 03:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Vince gonna Vince.







"G-Spot rocks the g-spot!!!
**Ghandi (Clone High)**

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DevilSoprano
Pee Wee's Plaything






Posts 8007
Registered 11-16-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 03:54 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the goon
I don't really get the Ronda talk...I feel like there was zero chance of her showing up tonight and I wouldn't expect her to come back until closer to WrestleMania, if she's even coming back at all.




Because there was no other reason for that match to main event. Except I forgot the old standby reason...WWE gonna WWE. It felt like HHH chloroformed Vince to allow NXT to have such a dominating show but then Vince woke up and screamed loud enough psychically that Becky stood tall at the end to make it seem like Raw won or something. I dunno. I can't WWEthink.

Also, the woman's team match really annoyed me near the end because there Charlotte was getting misted and then pinned all while Nattie stood on the apron like a moron making no move to save her and I could normally just blame that on Nattie being super bad at being a wrestler, but then moments later Belair or Storm is in the Sharpshooter/Bank Statement and Rhea just stands on the apron making no move to save her which means I need to place the blame on that to whoever the producer/agent for that match was. Thats not how you tag team.

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   DevilSoprano 's Aim   DevilSoprano 's Yahoo
First 9
The Immortal One






Posts 4111
Registered 1-22-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Doing the Emma Dance

posted on 11-25-2019 at 05:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
With the benefit of hindsight, I hope they change a few things in the future if 3-Way Brand Wars become a yearly thing. Make the SS matches 4 vs 4 vs 4 to minimize the clutter and throw the midcard Champions and Women's Champions into the SS matches. So many Triple Threats was kind of overwhelming.

[Edited on 11-25-2019 by First 9]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni






Posts 10865
Registered 1-19-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: child molesting robot

posted on 11-25-2019 at 06:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Despite the loss Becky remains the most gif-friendly on the entire roster.







Well you know, just because these young men have little education and live in squalor, it doesn't entitle them to commit antisocial behaviour and get away with it.

it's a child molesting robot

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
CVD39
Showstopper






Posts 809
Registered 1-16-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 09:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by G-Spot
Why is Rey Mysterio is channeling Doink the Clown tonite?


When I saw him I immediately said out loud ď°Itís Doink the Payaso!Ē


Iím watching this alone.


Great show. No big surprises so Iím not sure about the match placements.

I hate (hate hate hate) how mortal enemies come together for this brand superiority thing. Asuka saying fuck this and Roman just costing Corbin his spot made sense. Io and LaRae being fine together along with Bianca Belaire also being on a team with Rhea Ripley just doesnít make sense.

And yeah, that dead crowd is just over saturation.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
G. Jonah Jameson
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1670
Registered 12-28-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 12:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
Also, the woman's team match really annoyed me near the end because there Charlotte was getting misted and then pinned all while Nattie stood on the apron like a moron making no move to save her and I could normally just blame that on Nattie being super bad at being a wrestler, but then moments later Belair or Storm is in the Sharpshooter/Bank Statement and Rhea just stands on the apron making no move to save her which means I need to place the blame on that to whoever the producer/agent for that match was. Thats not how you tag team.


"Wrestler stands on apron and watches teammate get eliminated" in a necessary trope if these Survivor Series elimination matches are ever going to end. Even in a four-on-four match, at the very beginning, there's no reason why three teammates wouldn't be in a position to make the save.

I don't know that WWE has every actually said this out loud, but I tend to believe the in-universe reason is that, in theory, the referee can disqualify you for entering the ring out of turn (even though they never do). In a standard tag match, if you think your teammate is done for, that's worth the risk, because a loss is a loss whether it's a DQ or a pinfall. But in an elimination match, that might get you eliminated, and your teammate is still going to be at the mercy of the opposing team even if he or she survived the most immediate pin/submission attempt.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Cherokee Jack
The Rowdy One






Posts 2002
Registered 2-24-2009
Location New Orleans, LA
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 01:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
I don't know that WWE has every actually said this out loud, but I tend to believe the in-universe reason is that, in theory, the referee can disqualify you for entering the ring out of turn (even though they never do). In a standard tag match, if you think your teammate is done for, that's worth the risk, because a loss is a loss whether it's a DQ or a pinfall. But in an elimination match, that might get you eliminated, and your teammate is still going to be at the mercy of the opposing team even if he or she survived the most immediate pin/submission attempt.
This is actually a very good explanation and it would be cool if WWE would have their announcers take ten seconds to say something like this rather than the standard attitude of ďfuck you it is what we say it is.Ē





I'm Cherokee Jack!

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
nOOb
The Man






Posts 7441
Registered 5-24-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: Hot Dog!

posted on 11-25-2019 at 02:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I feel like the first Survivor Series I ever watched (1990 because of that fucking egg), a very younger me spent the Vipers vs Visionaries match marveling at how dumb the Rockers and the Superfly were for not breaking up pins while Rick Martel and company worked the ďfive countsĒ (because thatís WWEís ďofficialĒ rule based on their games) and swept them (in fact Iím pretty sure they eliminated Jake because Martel tried to double blind him after Roberts hit the DDT on the legal man and then chased Marte out of the arena to count out just Roberts).

You got the five count rule, itís been in existence forever, and WWE just seems to constantly go out of their way to make people look like idiots when they donít use it.





"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL Sunday.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
First 9
The Immortal One






Posts 4111
Registered 1-22-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Doing the Emma Dance

posted on 11-25-2019 at 04:21 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
According to Harry Smith jr, all WWE tag matches are wrestled under the logic that a ref will let one pinfall break slide but will dq you if you do it again. Harry asked why don't they mention that during commentary so fans don't get confused and he was told that's just how they do things.

Honestly. I get it. It'd be tiresome to book a huge-ass tag match and a make up a reason for why the tag partners didn't make the save for every single elimination.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DevilSoprano
Pee Wee's Plaything






Posts 8007
Registered 11-16-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 04:34 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
According to Harry Smith jr, all WWE tag matches are wrestled under the logic that a ref will let one pinfall break slide but will dq you if you do it again. Harry asked why don't they mention that during commentary so fans don't get confused and he was told that's just how they do things.

Honestly. I get it. It'd be tiresome to book a huge-ass tag match and a make up a reason for why the tag partners didn't make the save for every single elimination.


Except watch any big time tag match in the company, specifically NXT but I know in Usos, New Day, Shield, Wyatt matches they'd save on multiple false finishes.

It just makes the wrestlers look bad to stand there and watch a teammate lose.

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   DevilSoprano 's Aim   DevilSoprano 's Yahoo
G. Jonah Jameson
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1670
Registered 12-28-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 04:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
This is actually a very good explanation and it would be cool if WWE would have their announcers take ten seconds to say something like this rather than the standard attitude of ďfuck you it is what we say it is.Ē


Yes, that would be better. WWE has a lot of such rules that are presumably on the books, but are never spelled out by the commentary team. Rope breaks counting in no-DQ matches is another one (pinfalls and submissions don't count when there's contact with the ropes, irrespective of the presence of DQs).

I can picture a scenario in which AEW holds an elimination tag match, and decides to differentiate itself from WWE by having the commentators elaborate on this rule, only for Jim Ross to badly fumble the explanation.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Cherokee Jack
The Rowdy One






Posts 2002
Registered 2-24-2009
Location New Orleans, LA
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 05:33 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
You got the five count rule, itís been in existence forever, and WWE just seems to constantly go out of their way to make people look like idiots when they donít use it.
Maybe Iím wrong, but doesnít the five count rule only apply to the partner getting out following a tag? Like, Dawson tags out to Wilder, now Dawson has a five count to leave the ring. It doesnít mean that the non-tagged partner can constantly enter and have a five count to do whatever. See also: the oft-used spot where the heel team does some sort of cheating double team in the corner, the face partner attempts to enter the ring to stop it and the referee immediately restrains the face partner, turning their back to the heels and thereby allowing the cheating to continue.

And AEW has their own issues where these things are considered. ďThe rules are going to matter here!Ē *Very first show on TNT, Ambrose runs in during the main event and starts beating the shit out of Omega while the referee just stands there watching*

Rope breaks in No-DQ are a tricky one. Rope breaks during pinfalls should obviously count, but what about submissions? The referee canít DQ someone for not breaking a hold, so if they keep it on while the victim is in the ropes, and said victim eventually taps anyway, does the referee refuse to honor the submission?

Iíve said it before, I get that itís pro wrestling and cheating, rule breaking and shenanigans are part of the game, but for the sake of shit making the slightest bit of sense to the viewer there needs to be some baseline set of rules that are adhered to, and if you want to get around those then thatís on the writers/wrestlers to figure out a way to do it.

[Edited on 11-25-2019 by Cherokee Jack]





I'm Cherokee Jack!

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian






Posts 3209
Registered 1-25-2008
Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map
Member Is Offline

Mood: Old

posted on 11-25-2019 at 05:50 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I believe the 5 count rule is basically that you have 5 seconds to stop doing your mildly illegal thing after the ref warns you to stop. It could be to leave the ring after a tag, a rope break or anything else deemed against the rules but not outwardly egregious. Itís sort of like a yellow card where as a chair to someoneís back in a standard match would be a red card (instant DQ).

Anyway, I agree that the show was good but the last match really seemed out of place. It probably should have been the menís 5x5x5.

The one thing Iím fine with is NXT winning in a blowout. We canít have every SS come down to the last match or it makes the whole show way more predictable than it already is. Itís from the same school of thought where every now and then a 2 out of 3 falls match should be a sweep or once every few years ending a match during the commercial break.





Reigning, Defending, Undisputed, Half of an Award One Time Winner

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
G. Jonah Jameson
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1670
Registered 12-28-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-25-2019 at 05:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
The one thing Iím fine with is NXT winning in a blowout. We canít have every SS come down to the last match or it makes the whole show way more predictable than it already is. Itís from the same school of thought where every now and then a 2 out of 3 falls match should be a sweep or once every few years ending a match during the commercial break.


Ditto. I didn't mind that aspect at all. The interbrand matches are all exhibition matches, with no meaningful stakes. As long as they don't book them in a way that makes one brand look like a bunch of chumps for no good reason (cough 2018 cough), I'm not so much invested in the brand-warfare aspect as I am in the "watch people have awesome matches with people they wouldn't otherwise encounter" aspect.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian






Posts 3209
Registered 1-25-2008
Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map
Member Is Offline

Mood: Old

posted on 11-25-2019 at 06:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
The one thing Iím fine with is NXT winning in a blowout. We canít have every SS come down to the last match or it makes the whole show way more predictable than it already is. Itís from the same school of thought where every now and then a 2 out of 3 falls match should be a sweep or once every few years ending a match during the commercial break.


Ditto. I didn't mind that aspect at all. The interbrand matches are all exhibition matches, with no meaningful stakes. As long as they don't book them in a way that makes one brand look like a bunch of chumps for no good reason (cough 2018 cough), I'm not so much invested in the brand-warfare aspect as I am in the "watch people have awesome matches with people they wouldn't otherwise encounter" aspect.


Exactly.

As for stakes why not just have anyone who survives a SS match be guaranteed a final 5 spot in the Royal Rumble? It doesnít even have to be 30th, since that could hurt some suspense, but a survivor being guaranteed 26 to 30 would add great stakes. There is no reason why the big PPVs shouldnít flow into each other.





Reigning, Defending, Undisputed, Half of an Award One Time Winner

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be






Posts 12748
Registered 6-25-2002
Location Sunny Seattle, WA
Member Is Offline

Mood: FICKLE!

posted on 11-25-2019 at 06:14 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
According to Harry Smith jr, all WWE tag matches are wrestled under the logic that a ref will let one pinfall break slide but will dq you if you do it again.



I didn't know Harry had a son that he named after himself that knows that much about WWE behind the scenes. When he grows up and becomes a wrestler, he could be Davey Boy Smith III in the indies!


View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   salmonjunkie 's Aim   salmonjunkie 's Yahoo
salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be






Posts 12748
Registered 6-25-2002
Location Sunny Seattle, WA
Member Is Offline

Mood: FICKLE!

posted on 11-25-2019 at 06:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
As for stakes why not just have anyone who survives a SS match be guaranteed a final 5 spot in the Royal Rumble? It doesnít even have to be 30th, since that could hurt some suspense, but a survivor being guaranteed 26 to 30 would add great stakes. There is no reason why the big PPVs shouldnít flow into each other.


I like that idea a lot. Although, it wouldn't take much to end up with too many survivors if you have a bunch of blowouts. Plus, it potentially takes away from late surprise entries in that match. But I still like the idea a lot, it would just need some tweaking to make it work.

If anything, it would give a stronger reason for wrestlers to want to be on the SS teams where they have to align with foes, rather than just "I got picked by this captain and yay let's go fight!"

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   salmonjunkie 's Aim   salmonjunkie 's Yahoo
punkerhardcore
American Dream






Posts 8317
Registered 7-15-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lickable

posted on 11-25-2019 at 07:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
NXT winning big makes perfect sense. Their show is still very new (at least to non-streaming TV) and they're the lowest rated of the three so far as well. Booking them to look like a million bucks was probably done to draw more eyeballs to them on Wednesday nights.





Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian






Posts 3209
Registered 1-25-2008
Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map
Member Is Offline

Mood: Old

posted on 11-25-2019 at 07:40 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
As for stakes why not just have anyone who survives a SS match be guaranteed a final 5 spot in the Royal Rumble? It doesnít even have to be 30th, since that could hurt some suspense, but a survivor being guaranteed 26 to 30 would add great stakes. There is no reason why the big PPVs shouldnít flow into each other.


I like that idea a lot. Although, it wouldn't take much to end up with too many survivors if you have a bunch of blowouts. Plus, it potentially takes away from late surprise entries in that match. But I still like the idea a lot, it would just need some tweaking to make it work.

If anything, it would give a stronger reason for wrestlers to want to be on the SS teams where they have to align with foes, rather than just "I got picked by this captain and yay let's go fight!"


Exactly! Would Asuka have walked out knowing she would be hurting her RR chances and therefore her WM chances? Hell, it even gives a reason not to break up some pinfalls if a team is closing out a W but a heel wouldnít mind seeing a face not get a great RR spot.

Letís just take last night.

- Asuka turns on Charlotte to further a semi-main event womanís feud between two stars who need something to do aside from losing to Becky, even though Asuka already has something to do (tag champs) and Charlotte doesnít have a tag partner aside from Becky who has other shit to do.

- Or ... they do all of that with the added point that it was worth it to Asuka to sacrifice her potentially cake Rumble spot just so Charlotte canít get one either.

The only ďfalloutĒ from Asukaís actions now is that she cost Charlotte some pride. Oh, the humanity.

The WWE season is easy to follow enough already.

Day after WM to Summer Slam - pre season. This is always where they experiment with things.

Summer Slam to Survivor Series - 1st half of the regular season culminating in a now stakes-free all star game. Long term stories are set in motion and stuff that isnít working is set aside.

Survivor Series to RR - 2nd half of the regular season culminating in the beginning of the playoffs which is the Royal Rumble.

RR and EC - the playoffs. Fastlane shouldnít exist.

WM - the super bowl.

Why not have Survivor Series feed into the WWE playoffs?





Reigning, Defending, Undisputed, Half of an Award One Time Winner

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
punkerhardcore
American Dream






Posts 8317
Registered 7-15-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: Lickable

posted on 11-25-2019 at 09:28 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Oh, and Re: Doink Mysterio. I also thought the same last night. But then once Dominic showed up, my brain went straight to Krusty and Bart-- "wow, a giant clown hanky!"





Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Frank Lloyd Wright
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1798
Registered 10-2-2007
Location Fallingwater
Member Is Offline

Mood: Megalomaniac

posted on 11-25-2019 at 10:48 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Solid show for the most part tonight. As mentioned by others, I didn't understand that women's match being the ME. All you heard was crickets during the entire thing. Vince has overplayed his hand with the phony baloney Stone Cold Becky Lynch. I think the live audience has started to become tiresome of her. If they are not careful, she will start getting the same mixed reactions as her boyfriend.

I really hated that they didn't take advantage of the Orton/Ricochet friction that has been building for the last couple of weeks, as well as Rollins and Owens. What was the purpose of their backstage interaction, if nothing became of it during or after the match?

Glad I wasn't the only one that thought Mysterio looked like Doink.....lol





I have two ambitions in life: one is to drink every pub dry, the other is to sleep with every woman on earth -- Oliver Reed

American architect, interior designer, writer, educator, and wrestling fan.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DevilSoprano
Pee Wee's Plaything






Posts 8007
Registered 11-16-2002
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-26-2019 at 12:00 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I've said I agree the women shouldn't have main evented unless there was a reason for it, but lets not act like Becky still isn't the most over act on the main roster. The crowd was dead for large portions of the night except for some of the NXT stuff and Becky. It might have been the only match of the night where the main roster person was still the person being cheered the most as in every other 3-way match, it was NXT getting the pops but the crowd gave Becky the pop in the main event and allowed Shayna to be the best heel she can be...when they were reacting to anything.
View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   DevilSoprano 's Aim   DevilSoprano 's Yahoo
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni






Posts 10865
Registered 1-19-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: child molesting robot

posted on 11-26-2019 at 12:49 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano

It just makes the wrestlers look bad to stand there and watch a teammate lose.


This I agree with. It's not like someone breaking up a pin on their partner is a disqualifier, unless it's done with a chair or other weapon. All it's ever been "punished" with is a warning from the ref. Except for maybe some McMahon/Authority shittery with the rules the only sanction is the ref freaking out and yelling "get back to your corner!". I can understand why in the Survivors team matches they won't break up pins - if they did the match wouldn't end. But regular tag matches? Nah. Heel or face everyone should be jumping in to save their partner at every opportunity.





Well you know, just because these young men have little education and live in squalor, it doesn't entitle them to commit antisocial behaviour and get away with it.

it's a child molesting robot

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
<<  1    2    3  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top


Powered by XMB 1.8 Partagium Final SP1
Developed By Aventure Media & The XMB Group
Processed in 0.1095939 seconds, 21 queries