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Author: Subject: Getting Over In the Modern Day
DKBroiler
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posted on 9-18-2019 at 07:16 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk

I wonder about Andre, because I think Yokozuna would be a big star today. Being big and slow doesnít mean you wonít make it.


Viscera/Big Daddy V bombed, and he was wildly more mobile than Yoko ever was. I think in terms of big fat guys that someone like Dozer would be the limit of how far WWE would be willing to go. There's just too many of the Rollins/Balor type of guys now who go non-stop at full speed to make the huge fatties look credible as opponents.


This is where we will never agree. I find it less likely that BŠlor is a credible opponent for a 500 pound man than vice versa. BŠlor is amazing but he could literally be killed by one move against someone like Yokozuna. Winning every now and again on a fluke or a submission is one thing but if you were to book 100 Yokozuna vs BŠlor matches Yoko should go over in about 95 of them.

And heíd be a big star because of it.


Edit - Holy shit, thats 3000 posts! If one of you bastards doesnít nominate for Lifetime Unachievement this year Iím gonna find you and hunt ... wait thatís someone elseís line. You get the point.

[Edited on 9-18-2019 by DKBroiler]





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 9-18-2019 at 07:28 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I have my doubts simply because I can't believe the majority of the fans today would fall for the gimmicks of the Cartoon Age. Especially not when the really big stars of the current era are remarkably healthier in appearance and incredibly faster than the ones from twenty to thirty years ago were. Vince is really the only one left in the business, as shown by the example of Nia Jax, that someone overweight and in terrible shape deserves to be pushed. The rest of the industry, as shown by the absence of the fat monsters on their rosters, have left that idea far behind them.

Braun Strowman? I'm with you in that I saw the potential in this guy three years ago when most others were deriding him. But I didn't see it just because he's gigantic. I noticed it the first time I saw him run and nail someone with a shoulder tackle. He's that great because he's fast and in terrific shape. If he were another lumbering guy like Andre, Khali, or Yoko he wouldn't make it today, even if Vince blew out another pack of brain synapses and gave him a push.





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DKBroiler
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posted on 9-18-2019 at 07:49 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I have my doubts simply because I can't believe the majority of the fans today would fall for the gimmicks of the Cartoon Age. Especially not when the really big stars of the current era are remarkably healthier in appearance and incredibly faster than the ones from twenty to thirty years ago were. Vince is really the only one left in the business, as shown by the example of Nia Jax, that someone overweight and in terrible shape deserves to be pushed. The rest of the industry, as shown by the absence of the fat monsters on their rosters, have left that idea far behind them.

Braun Strowman? I'm with you in that I saw the potential in this guy three years ago when most others were deriding him. But I didn't see it just because he's gigantic. I noticed it the first time I saw him run and nail someone with a shoulder tackle. He's that great because he's fast and in terrific shape. If he were another lumbering guy like Andre, Khali, or Yoko he wouldn't make it today, even if Vince blew out another pack of brain synapses and gave him a push.


Fair. Strowmanís speed is what hooked me as well. Hell, Corbinís speed is a lot of the reason I like him.

That said, I donít believe the reason why there are so many smaller wrestlers nowadays is because big guys donít sell. I believe itís just really hard to find people in general who are 6í10Ē or 400 pounds. Many people of that size are either half crippled by injuries or are making millions of dollars in the NBA or NFL. We talked last week about how weird it was that Enes Kanter wants to become a pro wrestler because he has 100 million in the bank.

My guess is that if an NBA washout standing 7 feet tall wanted to become a pro wrestler there would be a line of companies waiting to push them to the moon. NFL players rarely get that tall and would never be allowed to get near 500 pounds so less so with them.

Ultimately there are ... googling ... just 2800 7 foot tall people on earth and those people have ... googling ... a 17% chance of playing in the NBA. Thatís 1 out of 6 who would instantly be athletic enough but have too much money. Got to assume that at least half of the 2800 would never consider pro wrestling as well. Ultimately there just arenít that many insanely large people.

And because of this, guys like Andre The Giant will always be a spectacle that many people will pay to see.

BŠlor is an amazing talent who is in the top 1% of most well conditioned people on the planet but ultimately he just looks like the guy from Mr Robot. No one is paying to gawk at Mr Robot.





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DKBroiler
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posted on 9-18-2019 at 08:39 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Iíd like to thank Pads for the tallest people rabbit hole Iíve been Googling. By my count there appear to only be 46 living people who would be taller than Andre The Giantís billed height of 7í4Ē.

Of that Iíll assume anyone born before 1980 would have no interest in becoming a pro wrestler at this point. Thatís 13 people off the list. 33 left. You can cross reference that with the 17 professional basketball players on the list (4 are still alive and born after 1980 with a 5th in Yao Ming who can be lumped in too since he probably has 200 million dollars in the bank). Weíre down to 21.

Thatís it. The entire list of people on Earth who are taller than Andre The Giant assuming his billed height was accurate. Many of which live in 3rd world countries and have massive debilitating injuries. My guess is that MAYBE there are 5 people on Earth healthy enough and poor enough to want to attempt a career as a pro wrestler when other options like basketball, volleyball and acting are available to them.

If Takko Fall flames out in the NBA he would be the most likely person on the entire planet earth to become the ď10th Wonder of the WorldĒ.

So yeah, I do no believe that big guys donít sell. I just donít believe they are in any way available.





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posted on 9-18-2019 at 09:48 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I probably shouldn't cast my opinion on others, thinking that they share the same view. But unless it's a Strowman or a younger & fitter Big Show I've completely lost interest in the side-show aspect of the big-guy mystique. It never really held anything for me, not even with Andre most of the time. I was always like "the guy can barely move, why not just kick him in the back of the legs until he goes down?, even during his feud with Hogan. Yeah, WM3's main event was a unique spectacle but, as opposed to say Austin, HBK, or Rock, it was difficult to go along with Andre when his mobility weak point was so glaringly obvious. Ditto with Khali, simply because the poor bastard is so damn slow and awkward.

Curse of being a mega-cynic and uber-skeptic is simply not being able to suspend disbelief to go along with the carny aspects of wrestling when they trot a sideshow freak out.





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posted on 9-19-2019 at 02:27 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think you have to consider that 70s Andre was much more mobile than the Andre of the mid-80s that is lodged in our memories. He wasn't superquick, but he was huge and could move very well for his size. That Andre would have gotten over.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 9-19-2019 at 02:35 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Could be. I've also been way too influenced over the last few years of the crowds at WWE shows just sitting there barely reacting at all when something really neat, unique, or cool happens right in front of them. It's one of the main things I miss about Attitude, where the audience would be going nuts at a mere RAW or SD whereas today too often they don't even get off their feet at a really good PPV. That's why I've got it stuck in my head that even an Andre wouldn't get much fanfare today.

[Edited on 9/19/2019 by Paddlefoot]





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posted on 9-19-2019 at 07:26 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot

Toss this one out for controversy - except for Dynamite Kid (due to his flippy-shit ability) and maybe Owen I don't think any of the other Harts would have been successful in today's wrestling. Too mechanical and often boring, not that great on promos, and far too often caught like a deer in the headlights by others who could talk way better than pretty much all of them. Toss in too that even Anvil and Davey Boy weren't all that big compared to some of the specimens around today like Reigns, Orton, Elias, Cena, etc.. What made them unique back then just doesn't exist anymore. Benoit would have been super-successful though, because the reckless way he could go in the ring would have matched up perfectly with (once again) Rollins and others like Balor


Disagree on the Harts, Bret would probably rise even faster in today's envinronment. He wasn't especially flashy but he was so good at the fundamentals that he'd still stand out. His transistions and timing are still at an elite level even when compared to today's roster. Plus, the pink and black attire with the sunglasses is a great fucking look.

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posted on 9-20-2019 at 01:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I think you have to consider that 70s Andre was much more mobile than the Andre of the mid-80s that is lodged in our memories. He wasn't superquick, but he was huge and could move very well for his size. That Andre would have gotten over.


I think this is the thing that's being overlooked. Probably for most of us WrestleMania-era Andre is what we remember and think of ...but younger, slimmer Andre was one heck of an athlete for someone his size. I mean, we're not talking about shooting star presses off the top rope or anything, but think of an oversized Luke Harper. By all accounts he was legit super-strong too - it's no stretch to see him doing the stuff Strowman has done (flipping ambulances, no-selling being squashed by a semi truck) and yet be even more believable. Yeah, the accent would limit his promo ability - but how many words has Brock Lesnar spoke in the past five years? You think an in-his-prime Paul Heyman or Bobby Heenan couldn't do all the talking for Andre? He'd just have to stand there with his arms crossed and look intimidating while his mouthpiece did his job.

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posted on 9-20-2019 at 08:52 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think Savage gets over in any era. He's like the Rock, this combination of a supernova of charisma with this amazing, over-the-top character that you can't look away from - and he could back it up in the ring. Warrior would probably still get over at first with his crazy promos, but his shit matches would keep him from ever getting above a certain level.





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posted on 9-21-2019 at 11:20 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I probably shouldn't cast my opinion on others, thinking that they share the same view. But unless it's a Strowman or a younger & fitter Big Show I've completely lost interest in the side-show aspect of the big-guy mystique.


Watch NXT next week. You'll see what gets big guys over these days...


I completely agree on Savage. He was just too intense not to get over on any TV based promotion at any time. Intense in character and ~workrate I may add.

Hogan is a very interesting one. I'm sure most of us here (middle aged die hards) think of him primarily in the 80's role, against the likes of Andre, Warrior, Zeus, Bossman (that cage match still sticks with me though) etc.

So yeah, at the time I wasn't a fan of his wrestling. Until I got a tape of him in Japan via RSPW. I can't even remember the event now but fuck the dude could wrestle! Slick, quick, some innovative holds ("sliding" figure 4 was awesome, enjiguris, urinagi backbreakers, etc etc)

These days, we would know all about that.

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