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Author: Subject: Avengers: Endgame (Full Spoilers Edition)
the goon
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posted on 4-26-2019 at 07:22 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Avengers: Endgame (Full Spoilers Edition)

Saw it earlier tonight and am still processing the movie, but holy shit...that was quite the emotional ride. I was thinking while watching it that Endgame is almost like The Return of the King of the MCU or something; it's just so big and epic (not to mention the three-hour run time). And going into it knowing only the bare minimum, I was kind of surprised by the first hour or so of the movie. It was really like The Avengers: A Character Study, where it shows how everyone was dealing with the aftermath of Infinity War and hardly any action happens. But then once they go back in time to retrieve the Infinity Stones, it really became like the ultimate payoff and fan service for those of us who have watched every MCU movie multiple times, and then the final battle was just insanely crowd-pleasing and filled with markout moments.

A whole shitload of random thoughts:

-Wow, who the fuck thought that Thanos would get legit killed in the first 15 minutes of the movie? I thought that it was going to be some kind of illusion or something (like when Gamora had thought she'd killed him in Infinity War), but nope...Thor straight up decapitated his ass right at the beginning. The five year jump into the future was pretty damn surprising as well.

-Speaking of Thanos, a minor cosmetic nitpick that I had with him in Infinity War as well: I wish they'd kept the bright blue eyes that he had in Guardians of the Galaxy. I thought they made him look more alien and menacing, whereas his appearance in Infinity War/Endgame was more human-like (though the CGI on him is fucking amazing).

-Captain Marvel ended up playing way less of a role in the movie than I would have expected. I know there was the fear that she was going to serve as a deus ex machina, and she kind of did a little bit, but her return at the end was pretty damn effective. Also, it's kind of interesting that the end credits scene from Captain Marvel where she shows up at the Avengers' headquarters wasn't actually in the movie.

-Okay, I'm pretty shocked that Captain America lived and Tony Stark died, because I thought it was going to be the other way around; I figured Cap would get the heroic death and that Stark would live, but retire from being a superhero (and still pop up occasionally in MCU movies). But the way they did it though was pretty fitting, with the first MCU hero saving the day and making the ultimate sacrifice, while Steve Rogers got to make up for lost time and finally get that dance with Peggy Carter.

-So...Black Widow is dead? I could swear I read that a Black Widow movie was officially being made, but unless it's a prequel, I don't really see how she comes back (not to mention a prequel would be kind of anti-climatic, let alone the fact that Scarlett Johansson is ten years older now than when she started playing the role). And damn, even though they had no way of knowing it, whoever got sent to retrieve the Soul Stone got a pretty bum deal.

-So we see 2012 Loki vanish with the Tesseract and then he's never seen again after that. Hmmm...

-Captain America wielding Mjolnir was fucking AWESOME and everyone in the theater completely lost their minds at that part. I loved Thor's "I knew it" line too, which I guess answers the question about whether Cap was only pretending not to be able to pick it up in Age of Ultron.

-I loved the "okay, this is it" look that Doctor Strange gave Tony right before he got the Stones from Thanos. So cool to see their discussion from Infinity War come to fruition. And I guess we should assume that from the moment Strange peered into all the possible futures in Infinity War that he knew Tony was a dead man?

-Okay, my only main nitpick is that time travel can make things unnecessarily complicated in movies and it's something we've never had to deal with in the MCU up till now. And I think I get the way that time travel in the MCU works based on how Banner explained it, but as I sit here I'm still trying to grasp the idea of them creating a bunch of alternate timelines by going back in time (like is the 2012 Loki who vanished with the Tesseract now existing in a completely separate timeline than the Loki we saw get taken back to Asgard in the first Avengers movie?). With that said, I thought all of the journeys back to events of the past were fun as hell and and almost played like a "MCU's Greatest Hits" type of thing.

-Thor appears to be a lock for Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and fuck yes, sign me up for that.

-I was fairly disappointed by there being no traditional end credits scenes (especially because I thought maybe they'd tease something huge, like mutants being a part of the MCU, Dr. Doom, etc) but at the same time, it was kind of fitting.

-Not to derail this into Star Wars talk, but as someone who didn't like The Last Jedi, it seems the common response is "aw, you're just mad that you didn't get what you wanted...stop complaining." But the thing is, with genre movies like this, yeah, there's just some awesome fan service type of shit that I want (or hope) to see . And I thought Endgame delivered that in spades...the markout moment of the Big Three approaching Thanos? Check. Captain America wielding Mjolinr? Check. Tony Stark wielding the motherfucking Infinity Stones and snapping Thanos out of existence (after saying "I am Iron Man")? Check. An insanely satisfying final battle that legit featured every living MCU superhero? Check. Lots of unexpected cameos, like the Ancient One, Alexander Pierce, Howard Stark, etc? Check. I have literally never been in a theater where people where clapping and cheering like they were during the final battle of Endgame and that's a response that The Last Jedi didn't even come close to reaching with grumpy old man Luke sitting on an island for two hours and then having a two-minute duel in hologram form.

There's probably a bunch of shit I'm forgetting, but I don't want this post to be 10 million words long. And I'm not completely sure what my final thoughts are on Endgame, as I'm still wrapping my head around it (and it's a big movie to wrap your head around), but you know what? Fuck it, I'm going full 10/10 here. It was just a hugely emotional and satisfying conclusion to 11 years and 22 movies and it's been a while since a movie really hit me right in the feels like this. Knowing that I more than likely won't ever see Iron Man and Captain America (at least played by Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans) onscreen again feels like a true end of an era, but I can't think of a more epic sendoff for those two.

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posted on 4-26-2019 at 01:41 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
A couple of thoughts above what the goon had to say:

Pissed off, psycho Scarlet Witch was awesome.

I think they did a very good job of using Captain Marvel. She made a difference in the fight, but not THE difference. She is too powerful and almost the Superman of the MCU.

I thought the movie dragged for the first hour. I know they needed to establish what a mess the world is now and catch up on the character development, but I have a feeling I'll be skipping most of it on re-watches in the future.

I'll ignore it because it was so much fun, but the time travel thing was still fucked (Thor took his hammer from the past; Thanos and his whole gang left the past and got killed). They needed to have a final boss battle and it was worth it, but that was massive 'check your brains at the door' continuity problems.





I only signed up so I can read the forum.

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the goon
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posted on 4-26-2019 at 07:05 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
Pissed off, psycho Scarlet Witch was awesome.


Forgot to mention that, but yeah, that was indeed awesome. For a minute I thought she was actually going to be the one to off Thanos.

quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I thought the movie dragged for the first hour. I know they needed to establish what a mess the world is now and catch up on the character development, but I have a feeling I'll be skipping most of it on re-watches in the future.


I get what you mean. I personally didn't really have a problem with it, but I was surprised by how the first hour almost felt like a drama and not a traditional MCU movie.

quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I'll ignore it because it was so much fun, but the time travel thing was still fucked (Thor took his hammer from the past; Thanos and his whole gang left the past and got killed). They needed to have a final boss battle and it was worth it, but that was massive 'check your brains at the door' continuity problems.


Yeah, using time travel wouldn't have been my first choice for how they got the Infinity Stones, just because it always leads to headache-inducing questions. My understanding of how they explained it (and I'd really need to give the movie another viewing to try and get a better grasp) is that meddling with the past won't change our present, but rather create an alternate timeline. Like when Rhodes asked why they can't just go back and kill Thanos when he's a baby, it's because that won't change anything in our present timeline, but would just create an alternate timeline where Thanos was killed as a baby.

But like you mentioned, those time travelling scenes were just so much fun that I was willing to go along with it and thought it was awesome to see them revisit past events from the other movies.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 4-26-2019 at 07:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Thanos time travelling and getting killed before the snap makes me worried that the MCU going forward will be a different time line. People returning five years later and not having aged is also very weird. Although this could be a way to bring up multiple demensions and bring in some characters not yet seen in the MCU. Not just the X-Men and FF, but Miles, and other Ultimate characters.

Black Widow will be a prequel movie. IMDBís summary makes that clear, but how much time the movie will cover has been unclear.

Loki is getting a series on the new Disney streaming service that will also feature Scarlet Witch. So it appears at least one death pre-snap has been done.

Spider-Man Far From Home is being called the last movie of Phase 3. Either they lied about it taking place right after End Game...or it will confirm that End Game creates a new Timeline/Reality.

They gave a lot of time to Scott Lang. Iím not sure if we will get an Ant-Man 3, but I got to imagine he will be a big part of the next Avengers movie.

Thor with the Guardians is great for more Thor/Rocket interactions.

RDJ and Evans being done with the MCU has been rumoured for so long, but Iím still surprised in how they did it. Tony making the ultimate sacrifice Steve thought heíd never do. Steve pulling a Tony and being ďselfishĒ and taking the opportunity to have a life outside of being Captain America.

Oh and I liked that they got the short haired version of Captain Marvel in there. Thatís one of those little fan service things Marvel nails.

Bucky not being the next Cap feels odd. Yes they both have been Cap, but it still feels odd.

I have a lot of questions about how the MCU goes from here, but itís been a fun run. I just hope the next batch of movies doesnít just feel like fillers while we wait for the X-Men in the MCU.

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posted on 4-27-2019 at 04:33 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
My only two questions/nitpick are:

*The soul stone set and the keeper being Red Skull just always felt like a moment between he and Csp waiting to happen... grand scheme of things oh well.

*Time in the MCU is going to need a smidge of finessing... its five years later; how will that play out for some people... we saw it with Ant mans daughter (which helps as she too becomes a hero), but what's going on with Peter and his friends... were the ALL snapped away/back? Aunt May?

Honestly just quibbles... I loved the movie, just the perfect ending and culmination of a decade of movies. Loved the happy endings.

Favourite moment might have been the ladies big "we got this" moment.

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posted on 4-27-2019 at 05:43 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Thanos time travelling and getting killed before the snap makes me worried that the MCU going forward will be a different time line.


According to MCU time travel rules though, the snap still happened, even with 2014 Thanos getting killed. But now there's an alternate 2014 universe where Thanos went forward in time and never came back, so the snap never happened there. At least I think that's how it works. Either way, I'm pretty sure the snap will still be a thing that happened in all MCU movies going forward and that we're not going to get any kind of wacky timeline alterations, outside of stuff like 2014 Gamora now being a part of the current day MCU .

And regarding the five year jump: I agree that it's kind of weird. Like, Rocket aged five years between Infinity War and Endgame, but everyone else in the Guardians didn't, since they had been snapped out of existence. And like Flash mentioned, I'm really curious to see how this is addressed in Spider-Man: Far From Home. Peter is technically still 15, but all the kids from his school who didn't get snapped are 20 now.

My wife also brought up a good point today while we were talking about the movie: when Banner snapped everyone back into existence, how exactly did that work? That's roughly 4 billion people suddenly returning to Earth after five years, so you'd think it would cause all kinds of chaos. Not to mention, do you get snapped back into reality at the same place you had been snapped out of it? What if you had been on a plane, driving a car, having sex, etc?

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Bucky not being the next Cap feels odd. Yes they both have been Cap, but it still feels odd.


Yeah, I kind of wish it were Bucky too, since he was Cap's lifelong friend and was such a big part of the Captain America movies. But as I saw someone on Reddit point out, Bucky just has a lot of extra baggage with the brainwashing and being a former killer assassin (even though I know he still became Captain America in the comics despite all that), whereas Steve Rogers might see Sam as something of a protegee and felt he had earned the chance at taking on the Captain America mantle. And let's be honest, I'm sure Marvel wanted to go with some diversity here rather than Steve handing the shield off to another white dude from the 1940s, and I'm fine with that.

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
The soul stone set and the keeper being Red Skull just always felt like a moment between he and Csp waiting to happen... grand scheme of things oh well.


I've definitely seen some online chatter about what happens when Captain America goes to return the Soul Stone and discovers it's the Red Skull who's the guardian of it, but I guess that's a moment that we're just not meant to see (even though it would have been cool).

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posted on 4-27-2019 at 06:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Holy shit that was amazing. A lot of surprises I would never have guessed, some big smiles and definitely teared up a few times.

Also, Iím very curious about the age deal and how/if theyíre going to address this in the Spider-Man movie, and who got snapped and who didnít.

I am curious about how Cap gets the stones into their old shapes and puts them back in some of the places they got them from, like putting the Ather back in Jane Foster, but Iím also ok without seeing it happen. Seeing him run into Red Skull again would be fun, and I also wonder if Cap putting the Soul Stone back at the moment it was retrieved means Black Widow comes back. And maybe itís something we see as a post credits scene in the eventual Black Widow movie (which I guess is set prior to Avengers).

I think the Loki show will be in this alternate universe where he slipped away.




[Edited on 4-27-2019 by salmonjunkie]

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posted on 4-27-2019 at 10:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I like this write up about how the time travel in the movie actually totally works given the rules the movie laid out

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/how-does-time-work-in-avengers-endgame.html

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posted on 4-28-2019 at 03:58 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
10/10 movie, yeah now the multiverse is a goddamn mess but that was expected since the next phase has so much more shit to introduce and it give the writers a golden opportunity if they want to do some retcons.I'm curious about how not having the stones in the main timeline. The Ancient One was very specific in saying how vital they are to reality and now they're gone.

Anyway, on to the highlights.

Main timeline Thanos getting ganked so quickly and so swiftly.

Professor Hulk

Antman being the only one who gave a shit about Thor recapping Thor 2.

Rocket's interactions with Tony.

Hail Hydra

The incredible all-out war scene. The best parts for me being Spider's return and the big 3 finishing Thanos.

Dr Strange giving Tony the go ahead.

Tony's funeral

Only one thing dissapointed me and it's that Hulk didn't get to fight Thanos again and now, he probably never will.

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posted on 4-28-2019 at 04:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Though there were a few moments I could piss and moan about, most of them connected to the time travel mechanics, I'd have to be some cold-hearted son of a bitch to let them ruin the movie for me. The sheer amount of work that must have gone into creating that movie -- from tying all the plot threads together, to giving all the characters something to do, to hitting all the right emotional beats -- is impressive enough that I can overlook the occasional potential misstep (many of which probably weren't really missteps to begin with).

I was in a pretty enthusiastic theater, and there were a lot of moments when they tend to applaud or react loudly to moments that, while impressive, I didn't feel were worth interrupting the movie for. And despite that, I marked out Matt Striker style for Captain America wielding Thor's hammer. That may have been the biggest cheer I've ever heard out of a movie theater, barely eclipsing Stan Lee's cameo. I was also pretty impressed, given the sheer number of heroes in the movie, that it managed to be so emotionally resonant despite the fact that only two of the heroes didn't survive it.

During the endless funeral scene for Iron Man, I remember there being one character in the crowd of mourners who I didn't recognize. Having looked it up afterward, all indications seem to be that he was the kid Iron Man befriended in Iron Man 3. That is some serious fucking commitment to continuity. As if the inclusions of Crossbones and Frigga weren't enough, you know?

Incidentally, I was convinced for the entirety of Frigga's appearance that she was Loki in disguise, and I was swiftly proved wrong -- but I did predict the exact moment of Captain Marvel's return, so I had that going for me.

ETA: Since some of the other posters have mentioned such, I feel compelled to add that I'm 10/10 all the way. I admit I'm pretty easy to please, but still, dang. Never thought I'd go to see a damn superhero movie that brought so many people to tears on so many occasions.

[Edited on 4/28/2019 by G. Jonah Jameson]

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the goon
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posted on 4-28-2019 at 04:53 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
I like this write up about how the time travel in the movie actually totally works given the rules the movie laid out

https://www.vulture.com/2019/04/how-does-time-work-in-avengers-endgame.html


Nice article, though I'm still not totally clear on how old Steve Rogers ends up in the main MCU timeline. Wouldn't him going back to the 1940s and staying there create an alternate timeline that he's basically "stuck" in for the rest of his life? Or am I missing something?

quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
I was in a pretty enthusiastic theater, and there were a lot of moments when they tend to applaud or react loudly to moments that, while impressive, I didn't feel were worth interrupting the movie for. And despite that, I marked out Matt Striker style for Captain America wielding Thor's hammer. That may have been the biggest cheer I've ever heard out of a movie theater, barely eclipsing Stan Lee's cameo.


My theater was quiet for the most part until it got to the final battle scene and then people started losing their shit. And while I would normally prefer a quiet movie-going experience, holy shit was it fun to be in a theater full of people clapping and cheering during the last half hour. I kind of doubt I'll ever have that type of experience again at the movies.

And what were the biggest audience pops (to steal a wrestling term) that everyone experienced while watching Endgame? These are what got the biggest reactions from the theater I went to:

1. Cap wielding Mjolnir
2. Spider-Man's appearance
3. The initial appearance of all the heroes to back up Cap
4. All the ladies of the MCU backing up Captain Marvel
5. Captain Marvel no-selling Thanos' headbutt

quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
During the endless funeral scene for Iron Man, I remember there being one character in the crowd of mourners who I didn't recognize. Having looked it up afterward, all indications seem to be that he was the kid Iron Man befriended in Iron Man 3. That is some serious fucking commitment to continuity. As if the inclusions of Crossbones and Frigga weren't enough, you know?


Yeah, I noticed the camera pausing on some random teenager during that scene and thought "who the hell is that?" and didn't know it was the kid from Iron Man 3 until I read it online later that night. Serious fucking commitment to continuity indeed.

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the goon
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posted on 4-29-2019 at 12:00 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So Endgame pulled in $350 million at the box office this weekend and shattered a ton of records. Also, Captain Marvel made it's way back up to number two, so this is the first time ever that two Marvel movies occupy the top two spots at the box office. Crazy shit.
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posted on 4-29-2019 at 12:43 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So a breakdown of how crazy the box office was for End game, from boxofficemojo.com :

quote:

Largest Thursday Previews: $60 million
Previous Record: $57 million (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
Widest Opening: 4,662 theaters
Previous Record: 4,529 theaters (Despicable Me 3)
Largest Friday, Opening Day and Single Day: $156.7 million
Previous Record: $119.1 million (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
Largest Saturday: $109 million
Previous Record: $82.1 million (Avengers: Infinity War)
Largest Sunday: $84.3 million
Previous Record: $69.2 million (Avengers: Infinity War)
Domestic Opening Weekend: $350 million
Previous Record: $257.69 million (Avengers: Infinity War)
#1 Movie Market Share: 90%
Previous Record: 84.5% (Avengers: Age of Ultron)
Highest Per Theater Average (Wide Opening): $75,075 / 4,662 theaters
Previous Record: $59,982 / 4,134 theaters ()
Largest April Opening, Spring Opening, PG-13 Opening and 3-Day Gross: $350 million
Previous Record: $257.69 million (Avengers: Infinity War)
Biggest Weekend Overall (Top 12 Gross): $389 million
Previous Record: $305.55 million (Dec. 18Ė20, 2015)
Fastest to $100 Million: 1 Day
Previous Record: 1 Day (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
Fastest to $150 Million: 1 Day
Previous Record: 2 Days (Avengers: Infinity War)
Fastest to $200 Million: 2 Days
Previous Record: 3 Days (Avengers: Infinity War)
Fastest to $250 Million: 3 Days
Previous Record: 3 Days (Avengers: Infinity War)
Fastest to $300 Million: 3 Days
Previous Record: 5 Days (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
Fastest to $350 Million: 3 Days
Previous Record: 6 Days (Star Wars: The Force Awakens)
International Opening Weekend: $859 million
Previous Record: $443.15 million (The Fate of the Furious)
Worldwide Opening Weekend: $1.2 billion
Previous Record: $640.5 million (Avengers: Infinity War)
Global 3D Opening Record: ~$540 million
Previous Record: ~$366 million (Avengers: Infinity War)
Global IMAX Opening Record: $91.5 million
Previous Record: $47.6 million (Star War: The Force Awakens)

...

Endgame's $859 million international opening is over $400 million more than the previous record set by The Fate of the Furious and the $1.2 billion in global ticket sales is nearly double the previous record of $640.5 million set by Avengers: Infinity War just last year.



Not noted is the budget for this movie which has to be huge. Still, the running tally for Disney/Marvel movies for the year is over 2 BILLION, and 3 billion seems a forgone conclusion.

Remember back in the day when Disney and Marvel almost went bankrupt?

Part of me wonders if the X-Men will carry too much baggage from the Fox films, but fuck...the MCU kind of runs the entertainment world.

It still bothers me that DC has flubbed things so fucking badly. Oh well, the Dark Knight is still great on repeat viewings. And the comics are still mostly fun.

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posted on 4-29-2019 at 01:49 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
It still bothers me that DC has flubbed things so fucking badly. Oh well, the Dark Knight is still great on repeat viewings. And the comics are still mostly fun.


I saw this in stark contrast last night, because after my wife and I got back from Endgame, we were in a superhero movie mood and decided to watch Aquaman on demand, and holy shit was it not good.

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posted on 4-29-2019 at 01:56 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It's nuts how a lot of those previous record holders are either still Marvel or Star Wars. Disney runs Hollywood.

While it's a shame the DCCU was a dud, hopefully it just convinces Warner to be the more artsy Super Hero studio and go back to the Nolan-method of just letting the directors do their thing. It's why I'm rooting for Joker to be a success even if it looks kind of eh in some parts.

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posted on 4-29-2019 at 04:10 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Goon has done a great job summarizing his reactions which mine mostly fall in line with.

I give it a B+ with dings only coming from the length, the first hour, and me wrestling with bladder in the final hour. My pants and I won but took away from some of the enjoyment

I briefly thought in the end we were gonna get Tony Stark back from Steveís time travel...that he went back and put himself in that position. A little silly on my part but also some wishful in the moment thinking because I liked Tony so much more than Steve.

Hail Hydra was amazeballs.



Edit: spellz

[Edited on 4-29-2019 by williamssl]





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posted on 4-29-2019 at 04:23 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I thought you were one of the good guys, Tex.



LET THE MAN GET SOME PEACE AND QUIET AND ASS FOR HECK'S SAKE!!!





Janny 11:19 says I JUST ATE YOUR ASS

Catch-As-Catch-Can: The Non-Specific Wrestling Thread

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posted on 4-29-2019 at 06:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Part of me wonders if the X-Men will carry too much baggage from the Fox films, but fuck...the MCU kind of runs the entertainment world.


I still kind of feel like the X-Men shouldn't be introduced into the MCU, even if Marvel/Disney technically has the rights to do so now. Because you either have to go the "mutants have been here the whole time, but we never knew it" route, which is lame, or the "mutants are a new thing to the MCU" route, which kind of ruins the origins/backstories of characters like Wolverine, Magneto, Apocalypse, etc. And I definitely don't want to see them bring over the existing Fox X-Men characters in some kind of universe-melding storyline.

It just seems like you could have gotten away with it maybe five years into the MCU, but after 11 years and 22 movies? Nah, that ship has probably sailed.





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posted on 4-29-2019 at 03:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
With X-Men already having 2 main trilogies, a Wolverine trilogy, the upcoming Phoenix movies changing the backstories of the main mutants may not be a bad idea. Start with a fresh setting to keep distance from Fox movies.
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salmonjunkie
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posted on 4-29-2019 at 04:48 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
3 days later and I'm still thinking about this movie and how much I loved it. If I get the chance, I may skip out on work early this week to catch it again.

A lot of you mentioned certain points in the movie you (or the audience loved) and I'll do the same, likely repeating a lot of what you guys all said.

I was already really touched when Clint goes back in time and sees his family. and when Natasha sacrificed herself, but the first time my stone cold eyes finally teared up was when the Avengers theme music plays as Dr. Strange opens up the portals to bring every one to the fight - and it starts with T'Challa, Okoye, and Shuri walking through the portal. Holy shit, I didn't imagine seeing Black Panther walk back in again would do that, but there it is. Then the tears really flowed when my beloved Spider-Man walks through. I realize after binging a couple of the Marvel movies before watching this that that theme song has become a powerful number for me (and that solemn piano version at the end of Infinity War still gets to me).

Seeing the top 3 walk up to Thanos and start the fight. Fuck yes. Cap lifting up Mjolnir - Fuckity fuck yes. (I've heard some say he was always worthy, I've heard some say he finally became worthy after letting go of the secret of Bucky killing Tony's parents). Captain Marvel coming down and laying waster to Thanos' ship. The women backing her up after she gets up from a Thanos punch.

Going back to the old scenes - lots of great humor and emotional beats - both from nostalgia and from the things they added, like Thor and his mom, Thor reaching for Mjolnir, Tony hugging Howard, Cap fighting Cap (which I especially loved for how it established that yes - you can interact with yourself without fucking things up), and showing Wong and Ancient One as a part of the Battle of New York.

HAIL HYDRA - absolutely fantastic.

How they were able to put in so much humor and fun and have all of these great emotional beats that really worked - I mean holy shit, they really did a great job in pulling that off - and they did by truly earning it through this crazy journey over 22 movies in 11 years. Endgame really did exceed the expectations I had - which were already high. And thinking all the way as a whole, the Infinity Saga as a whole just blew away whatever expectations I had way back then. I mean, when Iron Man came out, and when the end-credits scene cameo with Fury coming out to let us know how much bigger everything was going to be - it's so hard to believe that they ere going to do this really daunting thing of creating this universe - and so goddamn satisfying that it got so big, so grand, and that they really truly nailed it.

I really think that not only was it emotional to see these beloved characters come back to fight and win, it was also the impact of seeing something that I never thought I'd see all the way back as a kid reading these comics up there on the screen like that.

Here's something fun: Jim Starlin (writer of Infinity Gauntlet, creator of Thanos, Drax, and Gamora) had a cameo in the movie, in Cap's support group.

As far as the future of the MCU - I think you can bring in the X-Men in to the MCU. But you can't do it by just starting it with an X-Men movie. You start planting the seeds over time through the movies - whether they be small events during the movie or use the mid/end credits scenes to do this. I think you do could do "mutants have been here the whole time and we never knew it". They just don't necessarily have to have been heroes and villains in the way we know them. They could have been around the whole time and only now is the world starting to become aware. Maybe the 5 year Decimation or the destruction of the Inifinity Stones plays in to this. Maybe something in the upcoming Eternals movie starts this mutant thing off.

Wolverine could have existed this entire time, but because he's not a hero any of this time (either he's drifting around, or he's feral, or he's just been locked up in a secret Canadian base that SHIELD either doesn't know about or hasn't made enough noise for SHIELD to really investigate). Either way, what they can't do is just plop them on the screen and expect us to just accept it. They've gotta do it the way they did the Avengers, Wakanda, and the Infinity Stones. Piece by piece so that by the time they do give it to us, they've earned it.

And yeah, either change the backstory of Magneto or just don't do him at all. While we've all attached the holocaust survivor story to Magneto and it's hard to imagine him without it, I think there are ways to make it work. - I don't remember - but did they still keep that part of him in the Ultimate X-Men canon?

All that said, I can totally see them planting the seeds for mutants early, but not actually doing the X-Men for 5 or 6 years. And during that time, I think we'll see them introduce some of the mutant characters before they do a full fledged X-Men movie.

I could also see them dropping a mutant thing here and there and while that's going on bring in the Fantastic Four. I actually see them doing an FF movie before an X-Men movie, but not before planting the seeds of mutants in the MCU.

[Edited on 4-29-2019 by salmonjunkie]

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Flash
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posted on 4-30-2019 at 04:43 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think the MCU would probably do well to leave the Infinity stuff behind them... If they are going to introduce the X-men then as much as every movie since first class has been reintroducing them a fresh Disney start might not be the worst thing...

I mean let's keep in mind that the movies we've gotten thus far do not preclude mutants being a thing; only that the Avengers are kind of the worlds premier team... What we've gotten thus far is the Avengers story, albeit one that was at the forefront of some pretty big global stuff. There are as showcased by Captain Marvel whole decades of stuff both big and small happening in their history.

IF Marvel is building towards something big again then odds are we're years away from knowing what that is... Word is that Far from home is the last Phase IV (or is it III) movie... Which makes sense as a kind of emotional epilogue given Peter and Tony's special relationship. Otherwise Marvel has fairly deliberately kept plenty hidden as far as what projects are being announced so as to hide the outcome of what happened in Endgame.

Still; thanks to box offices and a few leaked words we can piece together a few things; like...

*We know a Shang-Chi movie has been announced.

*No way Black Panther and Captain Marvel both crossed the billion dollar mark; sequels are inevitable with a few so and so re-upped already leaking out.

*There's a couple of mini series announced for the Disney app; chiefly a Black Widow mini with David Harbour along for the ride in some unknown role as well, one suspects this will have to be set in another time. Given the ending of End Game equally intriguing might be the Falcon and Bucky mini series... This feels like it could/should be set post-Endgame.

*Guardians 3 has had a bunch of news come out about it so we can assume it's inevitable.

*Doctor Strange 2 seems like a go; Cumberbatch has a movie left on his deal, and director Scott Derickson just re-upped along with script writer Robert Cargill.

Then you can move on to the "probably" list...

*Thor was the only core Avenger to still be kicking with a future path laid in front of him and his last movie did pretty well... Hemsworth is in demand but none of his other movies to the best of my knowledge have been huge hits, so keeping his name out there on a big stage wouldn't be the worst career choice. You could probably also say the same about Ant-Man.

*Marvel seems to be developing a Blade movie having recouped his film rights not so long ago.

*Lot's of stories floating around about Marvel being intrigued by developing an Eternals/Celestials story... This would be something that's likely off on it's own I'd imagine given the scope and scale of it; the Celestial stuff could be used to do a big team up movie again, but the Celestials are kind of so big they don't have any personality and typically Marvel stuff has been very personal.

After that?

You can likely count on another Spider-man movie assuming this one does well enough, and I can't see why it wouldn't. The time jump gives you some new characters to play with... Like Cassie Lang (ant-man's daughter), Hawkeye's daughter, and if you were all wondering who that last boy was at Tony's funeral it was Harley Keener, the kid from Iron Man 3... Kind of an odd call back that likely raises more questions than oh hey nice call back. What I'm getting at is you are starting to get the beginnings of a nice youthful super squad... like maybe the Champions? Would make for a nice mini story arc teaser over a couple of movies as opposed to the universe scale they did last time around... Stuff that maybe teases out over 2-3 movies then pays off.

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posted on 4-30-2019 at 01:32 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Saw this yesterday after we got back from the Bahamas, and let me add a couple of things that haven't been mentioned:

But first, Cap wielding the hammer was the biggest mark out moment for me since probably the helicarrier from Avengers 1.

Anyway,
- I loved Falcon coming in on the radio with "On your left"
- Having all the portals opening and trying to see all the different people coming in
- The shock of Thanos being killed that quickly, then the time jump, for me really drove home the cost of the snap, and how desperate everyone was to fix it.
- Seeing all the different actors/roles from previous movies making cameos was awesome. However I thought the Stan Lee cameo was a little too quick. But I did notice that a few did not make an appearance, Odin, Coulson, Nakia, Zola, Yondu. But I did catch Jarvis from Agent Carter, which was nice.
- Professor Hulk was awesome as well

And after the Russo Brothers admitted that they CGI and tweek the trailers can we stop with the 20 minute youtube breakdowns of every trailer? And for the love of all that is holy, stop complaining that Marvel "lied" when something from the trailer was not in the movie, or changed. (not any of you, other fan boys I have seen)

Finally, while the female heroes teaming up was great, I am disappointed that the thought of how the incels are going to flip out came to mind at that moment as well.





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posted on 5-1-2019 at 05:22 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Black Widow, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Dr. Strange 2, Guardians 3, Spider-Man 3, Ant-Man and the Wasp 3, Eternals, Shang-Chi... and that's not including any of the X-Men or Fantastic Four characters they have back in the Marvel/Disney house.

Count me in, I really liked it. I'll have to watch it again - I think I like Infinity War a little bit better right now, it seemed a bit tighter to me - but some of those beats were epic. Steve wielding the hammer, the portals opening at the end, Hail Hydra, the cameos, etc. It was practically impossible to wrap up that 11-year journey in one 3-hour movie, and some of it will probably fall apart under strict clinical inspection, but I was thoroughly entertained.

Prediction: mid-credits scene, Spider-Man: Far From Home. Peter is trying on the Iron Spider costume, and he hears Tony's voice in his head. At first, he thinks it's a recorded message, but it's not - he's the suit's "Jarvis", living on forever as its operating system. Many more tears, RDJ is still a viable part of the MCU.

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posted on 5-3-2019 at 07:04 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It's been exactly a week since I've seen Endgame and I've still been pondering and thinking about it here these last few days. Some additional things I want to throw out there:

-In retrospect, that was pretty much the most fun I've ever had watching a movie at the theater. I've sometimes seen people online mention that they're bummed that they can never have that experience of playing Breath of the Wild for the very first time again, and that's how I feel about seeing Endgame in the theater. Even if I go see it again this month, nothing will ever top that experience of seeing it opening night and everyone losing their shit during the final battle scene.

-I was kind of thinking that my 10/10 score last week might have been a little bit of a kneejerk reaction after having just seen the movie, but a week later I stand by it. Endgame isn't a perfect movie, but it's about as perfect of a finale as they could have done for 11 years worth of movies. When you think about how many TV or movie series have ended with fans pissed off or disappointed by the way things played out, Marvel Studios and company just fucking nailed it here. Not to mention the immense pressure to juggle a billion characters and deliver a satisfying conclusion to 21 previous movies.

-After having a week to think about it, Captain America wielding Mjolnir might be the most markout-worthy moment I've ever seen in a movie.

-It's kind of interesting that we never got a fourth Iron Man movie. They pumped out Iron Man 1, 2, and 3 within a five year span (2008 to 2013) and then nothing in the six years after that. And of course we got plenty of Tony Stark in the ensuing MCU movies, but I just wonder what the behind the scenes reasons were for never doing a fourth solo Iron Man outing (though I'm assuming part of it was RDJ not wanting to do it).

-Thinking about where things go from here, I really wonder what the roadmap is to the next Avengers movie and how that's even going to be, without Iron Man, Captain America, and Black Widow (and maybe Thor). Hell, we don't even know what the current state of the Avengers in the MCU is after Endgame, but I'm assuming it's going to be at least four or five years before we see a new movie with the word "Avengers" in the title.

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posted on 5-5-2019 at 01:20 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think the answer to the why no more Iron man movies is probably a mixed case of scheduling, over saturation, and what more could they do.

To wit; Look at RDjr's Iron man schedule: Iron man 2 (2010), Avengers (2012) Iron Man 3 (2013) , Age of Ultron (2015), Civil War (2016), Infinity War (2018), End Game (2019).. You could also throw Spider-Man into the mix (2017) where he was featured. Most of those he was either the star, or co-star, and movies like this tend to have lengthy production schedules and unending promotional tours... On top of the near movie a year Marvel pace he's also fit in 3 other movies, with another 2 in post-production.

While the Marvel movies have been trending upwards in box office (Iron Man 1 made a little less than $600m, 2 made about $700m and 3 made $1.2b) so too have Downey's paycheques as he was the only guy who didn't sign on to some ridiculous 9 picture deal; instead cashing in large on the back end... Word is he made over $50m for Avengers... So KNOWING you have big plans for him for at least 4 pictures post-Iron man 3 (Civil War, Avengers 2-4) it probably starts to be a case of how do we keep Downey interested.

Anyway...

I saw End Game for a second time and definitely agree with Goon; The Cap-Mjolnir scene was probably my mark out moment of the movie; I still loved the ladies "we got this" spot too.

One thing I noticed much more on the second go around is just how much of the movie was probably filmed piecemeal... ie when and where they probably just green screened someone into a bigger scene. Like I'm betting Michael Douglas's scenes were probably filmed while he was on set for Ant-Man 2; Doctor Strange and Black Panther were probably filmed during Infinity War, and I'd guess the Sam Jackson cameo was probably just a grab from another movie. That's not me complaining; that's me being in awe at the amount of planning and foresight the Russo's would have had to have had to pull this off.

I still loved the movie; but I'm intrigued to try and think about this movie as a movie onto itself as opposed to a culmination of a decade's worth of movies; Like trying to look at it objectively as it's own thing is probably impossible.

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