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Author: Subject: Game of Thrones: The Only Show That Matters in 2019
the goon
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posted on 5-4-2019 at 05:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
Any video summing up what was wrong with the Battle of Winterfell should be 5 seconds long and just be a still picture of Bran. Everything else was great.


Sorry, but stuff like Jaime, Brienne, etc all being on the front line and surviving a literal tidal wave of the undead required too much suspension of disbelief for me. Like I said in one of my previous posts, there were times where you'd have a main character get swarmed by undead soldiers and then it just cuts away to something else, only to come back and show that character somehow still fighting.

I dunno, I didn't hate the episode but it just didn't live up to the "battle to end all battles" hype for me. Battle of the Bastards and Hardhome rocked my shit way harder.

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Yeah, that video picked up halfway through and started with the Night King survived his fall to the ground somehow.


Hmm not sure why that link starts halfway into the video (I found it over on Reddit), but it does cover the entire episode if you skip back to the beginning.

And I know there are a ton of YouTube videos out there that are overly nitpicky and critical of movies/TV shows, but I thought the guy who did this one did a good job of addressing some of the problems I had with the episode.

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posted on 5-4-2019 at 10:05 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Just to comment on a few points that others have brought up:

* Bran. I was disappointed that he didn't warg into anything useful. Personally, I feel like it was a lost opportunity to introduce Nimeria's SuperPack from the books (and briefly introduced into the show last year). Like, the front lines are getting overrun, but the superpack comes in and evens the odds for long enough for some of the main characters to escape to within WInterfell.

* Dany. I think a few things with how she dealt with the Tarlys took it too far. One, killing Randyll (Daddy) was probably necessary, but killing Dickon was a bit much. Dickon was portrayed as a decent person whereas Randyll was a jerk. It really cut the head off of an entire house and I think she should have found a more diplomatic solution. Two, killing by dragon fire is severe. After all, Jon got brownie points with the Free Folk in the show by killing Mance by arrow instead of letting him burn to death. I think we're supposed to feel like what she did was pretty shitty and it was pretty shitty. I think she is better than many on the show (she's no Cersai), but I don't think she's 100% hero either.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 5-4-2019 at 10:48 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the goon
Sorry, but stuff like Jaime, Brienne, etc all being on the front line and surviving a literal tidal wave of the undead required too much suspension of disbelief for me. Like I said in one of my previous posts, there were times where you'd have a main character get swarmed by undead soldiers and then it just cuts away to something else, only to come back and show that character somehow still fighting.


One question I haven’t seen answered...how long was the fight?

The parts where the Night King is fighting Jon/Dany obviously takes part before he creeps up on Theon. But a lot of the cuts seem to be more a POV change than a time change. So I think a lot of the cuts involved going back 5 minutes (or more) to show what was happening with a certain character.

And yet...

There are still a bunch of times where I wonder how a person got from point a to point b in a reasonable amount of time.

Also...I think Bran simply warged in to a raven to avoid the Night King seeing things through Bran’s eyes. You know like somebody hiding and waiting to pounce on the Night King.

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the goon
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 04:23 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I liked tonight's show, even if it did feel a little bit like a filler episode between last week's big battle and the final two episodes of the series. A few random thoughts:

-I'm not quite sure what to make of Jaime's "heel turn," but I'm thinking he's actually going to King's Landing to kill Cersei. I'm not sure why he couldn't tell Brienne that though, if that's the case. Or on the flipside of that, after banging Brienne maybe he realized that he'll always love Cersei and is an evil bastard at heart, though that would kind of override his story arc for the last few years. Guess we'll find out next Sunday.

-Rhaegal getting killed was the kind of "oh shit!" from out of nowhere moment that I think has been missing from this season so far. Even if it was a bit unrealistic that all of the harpoon/arrow things that Euron was shooting all hit their target so easily, but hey, whatever. I'm kind of starting to think that Daenerys coming to Westeros with three dragons and now being down to just one is kind of the equivalent of the Falcons blowing a 28-3 lead in the Super Bowl though.

-Speaking of Daenerys, she's going to fuck up King's Landing next week isn't she, consequences be damned?

-After the death of the Night King and his army, I still can't help but feel like Cersei as the final boss is a little underwhelming.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 04:39 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I hate it when something happens to one of the big flying sky kitties. Ten bucks say that the last thing Dany ever says is "burn them, burn them all!" just like her dad did.





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posted on 5-6-2019 at 12:20 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
My new prediction on how this all ends: after a bidding war, Bronn ends up on the Iron Throne. It’s a bit half-joking, but assuming that both Daenerys dies soon and Cersei also dies, I could see Tyrion having “his bill come due”, Jon refusing the throne, Tyrion looking at it and realizing it’s either had screwed up people or has screwed up and killed the last five people to sit on the throne, and just “rewarding” Bronn with King’s Landing.





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OOMike
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 12:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
My biggest complaint was the rate of fire of those ballista. To generate the kind of power that goes into the dragon, or through a ship, would require a crap ton of cranking to build up that kind of energy, there is no way to fire them that quickly.

Of course the reality would then mean that when Dany avoids the volley, she burns the ships to ash before they can reload.

Also, I was so expecting Cersi to push Missandei off the wall herself, but the good news is if Missandei survived the beheading, the fall probably killed her.





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the goon
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 06:04 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OOMike
Also, I was so expecting Cersi to push Missandei off the wall herself, but the good news is if Missandei survived the beheading, the fall probably killed her.


For a split second, I actually thought Missandei was going to grab Cersei and throw them both over the wall (which would have been badass), but then I remembered there's still two episodes left and there's no way in fuck they'd kill off Cersei that early.

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williamssl
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 07:41 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OOMike
My biggest complaint was the rate of fire of those ballista. To generate the kind of power that goes into the dragon, or through a ship, would require a crap ton of cranking to build up that kind of energy, there is no way to fire them that quickly.

Of course the reality would then mean that when Dany avoids the volley, she burns the ships to ash before they can reload.





All the ships were facing the same direction and I don't think the ballista were on rotating things, so all she had to do was come up from behind them and burn the fuckers all up.





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nOOb
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 11:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Any time you feel the urge to ponder physics, here's your answer: Dragonglass. It's responsible for everything. Can it kill White Walkers? Yep. Allow for rotating weaponry on a ship when there are clearly construction issues? Uh huh. Make for rapid fire, high velocity, quick reloading firepower ahead of the technology of the time? You bet! It's all Dragonglass. Everything that irritates or makes you question stuff can all be answered by that one material.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 5-6-2019 at 11:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Why does Jon blindly follow Danny? Dragonass...oh wait, you said Dragon GLASS. My bad.
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 02:14 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by williamsslAll the ships were facing the same direction and I don't think the ballista were on rotating things, so all she had to do was come up from behind them and burn the fuckers all up.



Yeah, a quick flank and they’re done. Or fly higher and come in straight down.

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the goon
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 07:41 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
One thing I forgot to mention in my previous post: how the fuck did Bronn waltz into Winterfell brandishing a crossbow and know exactly where to find Jaime and Tyrion (when they just so happened to be alone together)?





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 08:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
quote:
Originally posted by williamsslAll the ships were facing the same direction and I don't think the ballista were on rotating things, so all she had to do was come up from behind them and burn the fuckers all up.



Yeah, a quick flank and they’re done. Or fly higher and come in straight down.


You all are talking like Dany is Maverick from Top Gun or something. Sure, she can ride a dragon, but it’s pretty clear she’s not a battle tactician.

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CVD39
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 08:41 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
quote:
Originally posted by williamsslAll the ships were facing the same direction and I don't think the ballista were on rotating things, so all she had to do was come up from behind them and burn the fuckers all up.



Yeah, a quick flank and they’re done. Or fly higher and come in straight down.


You all are talking like Dany is Maverick from Top Gun or something. Sure, she can ride a dragon, but it’s pretty clear she’s not a battle tactician.


I’m not either and that’s the first thing I thought of. Crossbows only pointing in one direction and you’re on a flying beast. If she can’t figure that out, maybe she needs to stay off the battlefield.

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williamssl
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 05:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
She did stuff in those big rooms with the table maps and the rocks and chess piece things where they move the pieces around and/or knock them down...and sometimes use the thing that dealers in Vegas use to take all the money to remove the pieces from the big table map.

If that's not being a battle tactician on a fictional show where they drink Starbucks, I don't know what is.



EDIT: I lol'd

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Why does Jon blindly follow Danny? Dragonass...oh wait, you said Dragon GLASS. My bad.


[Edited on 5-7-2019 by williamssl]





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 08:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If Dany had stayed off the battlefield at Winterfell then the castle would have fallen in about twenty minutes.





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 09:49 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If Dany hadn't flown her dragon high enough where she was above the fog cover, she could've done a lot more damage to the Night King's army then she actually did, and possibly have saved more Dolthraki and Unsullied lives

Plus, I don't see where the sound strategy of sending the Dolthraki into the dark was any good. That's not a criticism of the show or the writers, I'm actually perfectly ok with our heroes making tactical errors. It's war. Mistakes are bound to happen.

Ok, fine, Dany is Maverick on the dragon. She was still emotionally compromised by seeing her child die, and wasn't in X's and O's mode at that very moment.

[Edited on 5-7-2019 by salmonjunkie]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 5-7-2019 at 10:09 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It wasn't fog, it was a major blizzard caused by the Night King's magic. And the storm was several thousand feet high, eliminating any chance of loosing dragonfire at the dead on the ground. If anyone had done something really stupid at that moment it was Jon by aiming Rhaegal at the White Walkers that were hanging at the rear of the battle, even though he knew they were lethal to dragons due to their ice javelins. He then got swamped by the storm and effectively took himself out of the battle, and then made himself double-useless by buggering off immediately afterwards to watch over Bran who wasn't even under threat yet. Meanwhile, at the same time, Dany had the sense of mind to keep doing strafing runs on the dead, further reducing their numbers and giving the defenders at the castle more time to fire the trench and then retreat inside.

Gonna toss this one out just to cause trouble. Dany is the new Skylar White/Lori Grimes. No matter how much any of the other characters fuck things up or show how incredibly stupid they are, she's still going to take at least twice the blame and vitriol any of the male characters ever will. Ned Stark wrecked everything by giving Cersei a head's up as to what he was going to do. Robb Stark got himself, his mom, and his entire army destroyed by violating the terms of his alliance with his most powerful ally. Hey, the feminists were right all along about that impossible double-standard shit.

[Edited on 5/7/2019 by Paddlefoot]





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posted on 5-8-2019 at 01:45 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
^^^^And they died for their mistakes. I think we all knew that breaking an alliance and then just assuming they laughed it off over some pork chops was pretty much an idiot thing to do. And Ned just assuming everyone played by the rules after seeing/knowing what Cersi, Jaime and Joffrey were about was dumb.

And Sal, I can buy that she panicked by seeing one of her dragons die, so with only revenge in her head she tried to rush in, Euron reloaded quickly (somehow) and took more shots and she realized getting her last dragon (and probably herself) killed wasn’t going to help anyone so she hightailed it. I can’t buy her sitting on the shitter later thinking “Oh yeah, I coulda just went around, duh! I feel like an idiot.”

[Edited on 5-8-2019 by CVD39]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 5-8-2019 at 02:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
All of the Ironborn ships had the scorpions installed. And they were also on some kind of turntable/rotator too.

I'm correct about the way women who end up on the wrong side of the internet fandom end up being treated. They inevitably become the "worst character on the show", even when they're objectively not, just because the geek/nerd IWC has decided so.





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CVD39
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posted on 5-8-2019 at 03:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
All of the Ironborn ships had the scorpions installed. And they were also on some kind of turntable/rotator too.

I'm correct about the way women who end up on the wrong side of the internet fandom end up being treated. They inevitably become the "worst character on the show", even when they're objectively not, just because the geek/nerd IWC has decided so.


How would it be on a rotator if the ship’s sails were in the way? I didn’t see that and I’m not sure how’d that’d work. Plus, didn’t she remember that the Lannister army had these scorpions? Shouldn’t she have been on guard, especially after the Night King threw a bunch of ice spears her way? Dragons aren’t unbeatable anymore.

I’m not against women in movies/shows/whatever if the characters are done right. In Dany’s case, it was so important for her to be Queen because she thought that she is the true, rightful heir but as soon as Jon tells her what he’s been told, she doesn’t believe it and doesn’t want him to take it from her (although he’s said repeatedly he doesn’t want it but if the truth gets out, no one will accept her). She doesn’t seem to want the rightful heir to be the King/Queen after all.


Plus, sitting there at the table watching everyone congratulate Jon, she seemed jealous and a bit betrayed. She came off heelish and Varys noticed and now he’s plotting against her......and I think Tyrion knows it too even if he doesn’t want to believe that it’s the right thing to do. And....now she just wants to destroy King’s Landing because she can’t have it and revenge. That’s kind of heelish.


Can’t speak for anyone else but she seems to be slowly turning heel to me. Now that she knows what it takes to rule, she seems to realize that these hard truths are getting easier to swallow.



[Edited on 5-8-2019 by CVD39]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 5-8-2019 at 04:32 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think most characters having their prize, especially if it's been the main focus of their entire lives, seeing slip away from them would react the same. And she hasn't done anything heel-ish yet. Just typical ruler things. And if there's anyone who has a right to pissed off it's Dany, considering that she lost most of her forces to save the North, nearly got killed herself, and the people there are still acting like ingrates, especially Sansa.

Had a great convo elsewhere about this. It's my contention, as shown by the time in Mereen, that when Dany doesn't act like a Targaryen with a full display of fire & blood things end up multiple times worse for her. By following Tyrion & Varys' advice she's seen Cersei end up in prime advantage over everyone. If she'd destroyed the Red Keep right after she arrived at Dragonstone every one of her current foes (Cersei, Ser Gregor, Qyburn) would all be dead. Dorne and the Tyrells wouldn't have been lost. And the city and the navy wouldn't be bristling with dragon-killing anti-air artillery. Yeah, some of the wretched population of King's Landing would die as a result of her attacking but more of them probably got killed when Cersei blew up the Sept of Baelor than would get killed by Dany. Plus, just like Aegon the Conqueror did to Harrenhal 300 years prior by unleashing his dragons on it until the stone literally melted, it would have sent a message to the rest of the country - get in line and don't fuck with the Queen.

Now, instead, she's on the verge of losing everything, all thanks to being a face.





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posted on 5-8-2019 at 05:20 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I get it, but Jon Snow seems to be the baby face now, Cersei the uber heel and Dany seems to be about to make a heel turn. I have a hard time believing Jon and Dany attack, somehow win and all is well with them ruling together. And I don’t see Jon doing anything off the cuff.


Then again, maybe they’re just getting it over to get it over. We’ll see, though.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 5-8-2019 at 05:27 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Unless they do a real swerve I'd say Dany is dead, maybe even by the end of the next episode. Jon will most likely be the ultimate winner with Sandor & Arya on the way to KL to wrap up their unfinished business.





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