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Author: Subject: "All Elite Wrestling" news and speculation
DKBroiler
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 02:16 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
I wish I understood the theory that size automatically meant better from a "fighting" standpoint. I've seen many a 5'6 150 pound looks like nothing take down the biggest guys at a club. Brock's a different animal because he has the actual trained background but if you build up any guy the right way, size does not matter when it comes to "fighting."


I have as well, but this isnít a club. Itís supposed to be a fighting league that attracts the baddest fighters in the world. In boxing, for example, Mayweather is the best of this generation but would get destroyed by Wilder (who is a far less refined fighter) simply due to the size difference. How do you think McGregor versus a top UFC heavyweight would go? Not some dude at the club but a legit top 10 heavyweight? Maybe he gets an armbar win, sure. More likely heíd get his head hammer fisted off the mat repeatedly.

Size does matter. Being big and unskilled is one thing, but Lesnar and Strowman arenít unskilled and neither are any of the heavyweights at the top of Raw.





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DKBroiler
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 02:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Accipiter
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
I wish I understood the theory that size automatically meant better from a "fighting" standpoint. I've seen many a 5'6 150 pound looks like nothing take down the biggest guys at a club. Brock's a different animal because he has the actual trained background but if you build up any guy the right way, size does not matter when it comes to "fighting."


A smaller guy can take down a larger guy in the club in one minute, but can he hang in there and take a pounding for 15-20 minutes, because that's how wrestling stories are told. So someone like Balor could make Braun submit in a few seconds, but it's hard to believe he's getting up after being slammed for 20 minutes.

For me there's a threshold, guys like AJ and Bryan are big enough that you can see them holding up long enough for their skill to overtake the larger opponent.


100% exactly this.





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DKBroiler
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 02:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
First, AJ and Bryan are barely bigger than Finn.
Second, if WWE knew how to tell the story of a smaller wrestler, they absolutely could handle dealing with the aspect of "taking a beating" in a wrestling match.


AJ, Bryan, Finn and Seth may very well be the 4 most skilled wrestlers in WWE. The first 3 all had a match with Brock in the last year where they took a serious beating and came on back for more. I donít recall the specifics of the AJ match more than it was very good, but Bryan and Finn both told great stories. Bryan took an ass beating and taunted Brock into almost fucking up. Finn, meanwhile, capitalized on a very believable nut shot.

The problem was, and continues to be, Brock was able to equal thier skill either by raw power (Bryan) or with skill (Finn) for the win. Like Brock or not, he is both extremely large and extremely skilled. Thatís why he is the attraction he is and why he has been rightfully booked as the strongest overall male wrestler in the world.

So yeah, nice narrative but your number 2 is what they have actually done already. The problem is not that. The problem is how on earth would you book one of these guys to keep the Univeral Title for more than a month. Telling the story of overcoming the odds once is great, but doing it every PPV is just unrealistic no matter how much you want it to be. Size matters, skill matters, size and skill matter the most.





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First 9
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 02:40 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Undertaker vs Mysterio had a series of matches which I think show how a little guy can believably hold on for 15 to 20 minutes. Basically Taker just couldn't hit any of his heavy offense like Chokeslams or Tombstones because Mysterio was too nimble, so he had to stick to basic strikes and slams to try and ground him. But once Taker caught him with 1 big move, the match was over.

Balor vs Brock/Braun in close quarters should always end with Balor getting decimated in minutes but the little flippy guy being just quick enough to always keep a distance and hitting calculated strikes works just fine. If Balor had a finisher like the RKO, this wouldn't even a conversation because if WWE wanted Balor to have a six month title reign facing nothing but monsters, they'd just have him hit his ''OUTTA NOWHERE'' super move to put down the Heavyweights everytime.

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DKBroiler
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 03:47 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Undertaker vs Mysterio had a series of matches which I think show how a little guy can believably hold on for 15 to 20 minutes. Basically Taker just couldn't hit any of his heavy offense like Chokeslams or Tombstones because Mysterio was too nimble, so he had to stick to basic strikes and slams to try and ground him. But once Taker caught him with 1 big move, the match was over.

Balor vs Brock/Braun in close quarters should always end with Balor getting decimated in minutes but the little flippy guy being just quick enough to always keep a distance and hitting calculated strikes works just fine. If Balor had a finisher like the RKO, this wouldn't even a conversation because if WWE wanted Balor to have a six month title reign facing nothing but monsters, they'd just have him hit his ''OUTTA NOWHERE'' super move to put down the Heavyweights everytime.



Good points for sure. It worked for HBK. To go back to Ziggler for a second, if they just switched up and made his super kick his finish, and the zig zag just a 2 count signature move, I think heíd be taken significantly more seriously as a Universal Championship competitor. Finnís finish is actually pretty good in this regard, but he needs a submission to round him out as a finished product as does Ziggler ... and, now that I think about it Seth.

The components of a modern day main eventer in the ring (discounting stuff like merchandise, talking and presence for a second) are strong, skilled, fast, crowd popping set up moves, a finish that can be done on anyone and a submission. Brock is the only person in WWE since Taker about 7 or 8 years ago who checks all of these boxes. Cena certainly did as well itís just that Brock is faster, stronger and more skilled than Cena ... and Cena is supposed to be the WWE GOAT.





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posted on 2-15-2019 at 05:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Ziggler, without the name Dolph Ziggler and that lame-ass ZigZag finisher would have gone alot further.
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 08:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Eh. I mean, it's a gathering of super-smart marks who will pay homage and bow to him. Reportedly he's getting like 25K an hour to be there.

I do find it hilarious how a lot of the indie marks will shit on WWE all the time, but the second a big WWE star even looks in the direction of another company, they lose their minds with happiness.

"I find it hilarious how a lot of the WCW marks will shit on WWF all the time, but the second a big WWF star like Nash or Hall or even looks in the direction of Atlanta, they lose their minds with happiness."


Hard to win a ratings war when you don't even have a TV show.





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CCharger
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posted on 2-15-2019 at 08:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Hard to fight a war when you don't have generals and soldiers.





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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 2-16-2019 at 02:20 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Good points for sure. It worked for HBK. To go back to Ziggler for a second, if they just switched up and made his super kick his finish, and the zig zag just a 2 count signature move, I think heíd be taken significantly more seriously as a Universal Championship competitor. Finnís finish is actually pretty good in this regard, but he needs a submission to round him out as a finished product as does Ziggler ... and, now that I think about it Seth.



"Superkick as finisher, Zig Zag as two-count" is absolutely the arrangement Dolph Ziggler has now. He only wins with the Zig Zag when there's a compelling reason for him not to win with the superkick (works better for the finish, as at Clash of Champions 2017, or he needs to score a pin with the superkick again later, as at Crown Jewel). I always read this complaint about Ziggler, and it was reasonable once, but the superkick has been his real finisher for years.

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