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Author: Subject: EVENT DISCUSSION: WWE Dirrrty Money in the Desert (November 2, 2018)
Planet Starbucks
And I am AWESOME






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posted on 11-3-2018 at 01:05 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
God damn some of you guys take this nonsense too seriously. I watched it last night, laughed at how awkward a lot of it was and enjoyed a few hours of TV. Iím glad Shane won. It was unexpected, funny, and clearly pissed off enough of you who act like cunts about how other people chose to be entertained. I hope Shane wins 10 pay per view matches in a row now just to piss off this group of fan cunts.

TLDR: take a few hours to stop jerking off on your Kenny Omega action figure and jam it in your own ass if youíre going to shit on what other people find fun just to be a cunt. I liked it. I donít give a fuck. Get bent.


Yeah, it's not your behaviour that's loud and obnoxious, it's everybody else.

CUNT!!!!! CUNT!!!!! Look at me Ma, I can shout swear words!





quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
If you want a vision of the WWE's future, imagine an overpushed Samoan stamping on a human face - forever. George Orwell, 2016 (sequel to 1984)

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SpiNNeR72
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posted on 11-3-2018 at 01:36 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
God damn some of you guys take this nonsense too seriously. I watched it last night, laughed at how awkward a lot of it was and enjoyed a few hours of TV. Iím glad Shane won. It was unexpected, funny, and clearly pissed off enough of you who act like cunts about how other people chose to be entertained. I hope Shane wins 10 pay per view matches in a row now just to piss off this group of fan cunts.

TLDR: take a few hours to stop jerking off on your Kenny Omega action figure and jam it in your own ass if youíre going to shit on what other people find fun just to be a cunt. I liked it. I donít give a fuck. Get bent.


AMEN!

Once again I agree 100% - sure, the beer and fireball help but thats been a damn fun start to my saturday.

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denverpunk
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posted on 11-3-2018 at 03:26 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So the proper response to people taking wrestling too seriously is to take their responses too seriously. Got it.
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punkerhardcore
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posted on 11-3-2018 at 06:04 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Looks like those cunts at OO did it again. What a bunch of cunts.





Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.

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Wickedfrost
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posted on 11-3-2018 at 07:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Iím glad Shane won. It was unexpected, funny, and clearly pissed off enough of you who act like cunts about how other people chose to be entertained.


Except that the moment he came out it wasn't unexpected and shitting on Ziggler like that isn't particularly funny. I mean if this and brony porn are what you choose to be entertained by perhaps you ought rethink your life choices.

This was objectively stupid beyond wrestling stupid. Unless this leads to Omega and the Elite invading, or Jericho or Punk vs Shane then there's no compelling story reason for the disrespect.





And my father said
When I was younger
Hard times breed better men

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CamstunPWG187
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posted on 11-3-2018 at 11:44 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Hey guys, remember this classic?

By Rick Scaia


So, in the week leading up to WrestleMania, Carlito was called into duty as Randy Orton's designated replacement for a bunch of interviews and media appearances. This was because Orton's name had recently been widely circulated as part of the on-going steroid scandal being investigated by Sports Illustrated, and WWE didn't want a noted dimwit like Orton having to try to answer questions about that controversy.

So, they sent Carlito out to hype WM23. Despite the fact that Carlito was not scheduled to perform at WM23.

In what should be a shock to no one, some more intelligent reporters decided that'd make a good question: "Hey, Carlito, how's it feel to be out hyping WrestleMania when you're not even wrestling on it?"... and the answer was that Carlito thought it sucked, that he considered it "disrespectful" on the part of WWE to leave him off the card while -- and he called these matches out specifically -- the Great Khali and Diva Search Ashley got spots on the show. He made it clear that his anecdotal evidence was that fans didn't really care to see either of those two, but always seem to enjoy watching Carlito.

In the same interview, he also said it was stupid for WWE to be booking him as a babyface and that he hates working that style.

Needless to say, this got Carlito in some pretty big trouble. He was already dealing with some political heat because of a perceived lack of dedication and work ethic, and now, he's bad mouthing WWE in the media in the week leading up to the biggest show of the year. Granted, in that interview, he also tried once or twice to smooth things over and backtrack, going so far as to say "I don't want to get fired, or anything." But you wouldn't know it from some of the things he let slip out....

And more than a few within the WWE power structure would have been happy to oblige Carlito, and fire him on the spot for his seemingly on-going attitude problem. But then that didn't happen. Carlito even got to wrestle a pre-show dark match at WM23, and won (though I gather that tag match was more done as a gesture to Carlito's partner, Ric Flair, who was also upset about being left off the show).

Why the lenience? Well, in my heart of hearts, I'd like to think it means that the less-vocal, less-sycophantic minority within WWE's power structure is speaking up and trying to point out that maybe Carlito's right about most of the things he said.

But more likely, it's just a simple matter of dollars and cents (the same thing that does NOT exist when TNA decides it can easily discipline curtain jerker Austin Starr). No matter what personality clashes exist, Carlito's still scary-good at what he does, he still has stronger fan reactions than the vast majority of the WWE roster, and firing him would be gift-wrapping another top star for TNA. Carlito's probably still got his job just for those selfish reasons; afterall, WWE can always try sticking him on Heat for 3 months, and see if he still gets fan reactions after that! And if not, THEN they can fire Attitude Boy and feel a little bit better about it.

Sadly, that thought process is yet another case of WWE's Institutional Retardation. But after I pondered it for a while, I decided it's also a symptom of WWE's Institutional Mandate For Mediocrity (which we talked about over a year ago in one of my more favorite columns).

To summarize for those who don't want to go back and get up to speed on a true Rick Classic, the short version is that WWE has created a culture in which -- through horribly over-writing their shows to rob intelligent and charismatic performers of the chance to shine, and through limited movesets and making even the most proficient in-ring workers use the generic "WWE style" -- all performers are seen as equal in the eyes of many fans. The problem is, they're only creating an environment in which they are all equally mediocre and forgettable.

To bring that thesis up to the present issue, I opine that a guy like Carlito intimidates the hell out of a lot of people in WWE. He's ultra-good at what he does, and he does it effortlessly. All while WWE retains more than a few people (be it in management, creative, and of course, on the active roster) who have to bust their ass and work their hardest to to approximate mere competence. To somebody who finds it really, really hard to turn out work that is barely acceptable, there is nothing scarier than being confronted by somebody who does his job, does it great, and doesn't appear to be having to try very hard to do it.

In "WWE Think," the solution isn't to change the culture and to start stockpiling Excellence. It's to browbeat your few truly excellent employees until they stop being excellent and showing up everybody else. It's to get them to do it "The WWE Way," so that they no longer show off any of that unique spark that gets them noticed and which makes performing such fun. Or, failing that, it's to make showing up for work enough of a chore that they get pissy and just decide to leave the company.

So far, WWE has tried to tell Carlito that he's lazy, that he doesn't work hard enough, and that he shouldn't be loitering around catering shmoozing when he OUGHT to be glued to a monitor watching the latest Chris F. Masters match or Vince McMahon cock-related skit. They even turned it into a brief TV angle between Ric Flair and Carlito in the hopes that somehow the "ritual humiliation" of being outted on national TV would cow him into being more humble and subservient. Apparently, this didn't really work, and Carlito still doesn't quite understand what he's going to learn about ringwork from watching Chris Masters or what he'll learn about storytelling by staying glued to whatever C-grade tripe is churned out by WWE's c-grade fine arts school graduates.

I, for one, don't blame the guy. WWE's attempts to "motivate" Carlito to "show more respect" and do things the "WWE way" or whatever is pretty much the same thing as somebody asking me to religiously read every precious word coming out of Dave Meltzer's keyboard so that I can learn more about how to really write the correct way. Objectively, it's just a stupid and pointless thing to ask me to do. And on a personal level, I'd probably feel annoyed and insulted that you'd even ask, and start acting like an even bigger asshole than usual, simply out of spite.

Carlito's controversial interview only strengthens my opinion that he's probably a more naturally perceptive student of Sports Entertainment than the vast majority of people making decisions for WWE. Shitting on the Khali and Ashley matches may have been kind of a dick thing to do, but it doesn't change the fact that he's right. I'm not saying there's anything inherently noble about acting like a dick if it can be avoided, but I'm always ready to grant leeway to the rare dickhead who is a capable dickhead who happens to be right. And going back to the example above: I also totally understand if Carlito just feels kind of insulted by the whole ordeal, and is acting this way out of kneejerk spite.

WWE doesn't see it that way, though. Instead of valuing Carlito's input, instead of giving him the freedom to contribute more, and instead of creating an environment where he's surrounded by other excellence and actually might feel motivated to do something other than act like an asshole, what's WWE do? They get all defensive, and make sure the handcuffs stay firmly in place so that Carlito (and guys like him, as there are more) don't really get to shine, and don't get to make boobs such as Khali look any less coordinated or less charismatic than they already do.

It amounts to WWE using phrases like "respecting the business" and "doing things the right way" to hide behind the fact that all they really want out of today's talent is "don't show me up by being noticeably better than everybody else." It's an easy way for the borderline-competent to feel better about themselves -- no matter which part of the business they are in -- to create their own decision heuristics that have nothing to do with isolating and nurturing talent and ability. Among wrestlers, this manifests itself in guys like Bob Holly, who are convinced that by sheer nature of tenure, he should somehow be a main eventer, despite said tenure being spent with fans not giving a shit bout him. In the creative department, it means hiring a phalanx of writers so unremarkable that they can't even get work on a shitty sitcom, and lamenting how it takes 12 people working 80 hours a week to do a job that should be relatively fun and easy for somebody who isn't trying to trick the world into thinking the job has mystical and complex elements above and beyond "giving fans stuff they can care about." In the front office, it means being Johnny F. Ace, and basing all your decision on what you think Vince McMahon wants to hear, because you figure if you do that, it doesn't matter who notices you are incompetent, because Vince will like you.

It's not just something that frustrates me as a fan, it's something that is ultimately irresponsible if these people view themselves as guardians of a business that they'd like to leave stronger than it was when they joined it. This culture in which anybody can rise up to reach his or her level of incompetence, and is then permitted to enforce a rule that states "Nobody may be better than me," is simply not healthy.

I realize WWE is far from the only entity around that has this sort of insecure/defensive mentality... and I'd warn that if you ever bump into it elsewhere in your life, you instantly consider it a red flag there, too. Anytime you see the higher-ups talking about "breaking somebody down, and then building them back up OUR way," or "respecting our way of doing things," or anything else that amounts to them trying to make their jobs seem more mysterious and complicated by insinuating that you could never do the job properly without checking your brain at the door and doing what you're told, it's a danger sign. It's not just an indicator of Institutional Insecurity, it's a sign of an institution that -- by definition -- will stagnate, because it becomes impossible to ever churn out a next generation of employees who are anything other than "exactly as good as what we got now." Maybe that's fine for the military, where there are literally life and death implications for a soldier in the field doing EXACTLY what he's been taught and ordered to do, but this isn't a matter of life and death. It's a matter of entertainment and expertise; if Mark Henry gets snuffed out by metaphorical sniper fire because somebody happens to outflank him and beat him to the target, instead of holding back and patiently covering for him like the assclowns in HQ says, trust me, nobody's gonna be too upset.

The chances for an institution to evolve and improve disappear the second that the inherently more-gifted are "broken down" and "remade" (or if they are just scared off to find another, more satisfying, place to ply their trade) to meet the low standards of the least common denominators who are already entrenched.

WWE, in the past, has had periods where they've been an evolving institution. In the early 80s, Vince McMahon broke just about every standing rule of promoting wrestling, and had his elders terrified that he'd ruin the business forever. Of course, it turned out that Vince was right, and the business moved forward and grew. Of course, it also turned out that from this point on, Vince was pretty much convinced that his way of doing things was the only right way of doing things, and in less than a decade, the company was stagnating badly, and by 1997 was taking out large loans to avoid bankruptcy.

But at the same time WWF/E was getting that influx of cash, there was also an influx of desperation from another source: from WCW, which had clearly overtaken WWF/E as the #1 wrestling company in the US. This created a new culture in which Vince had to accept the input of others, since what they were already doing was obviously not working.... from that desperation and openness to good ideas came another massive overhaul and an evolution that led to wrestling's most successful years ever, and the creation of the vast majority of stars who would carry the industry for the next decade.

Then all of a sudden, it's 2001, and WWE buys WCW, and has spent six years without a single real competitor. It was OK for a while; sure Vince fumbled the WCW Invasion story out of sheer dunderheadedness, but business was still good, and TV was still consistently watchable for a couple of years. But as the sheer necessity to be a nimble, agile, open-to-change company faded into the past, the lack of competition resulted in the company's top figures fortifying their positions and reverting back to the "my ways are the only ways, and please, nobody smarter or more talented than me is going to be welcome here" philosophy. By 2004, you had a completely remade creative team, you had top lieutenants like Jim Ross and Pat Patterson being phased out for being ornery sumbitches with opinions of their own, and you started to see the outflux of bankable talents (like Jericho, Christian, etc.) who simply stopped getting gratification from performing in an environment that had suddenly started this radical new Mediocrity Fetish.

And that's where we stand today. With WWE hiding behind all sorts of cliches and defensive insistence on everybody having to do things "the WWE Way" if they're ever going to be any good... which simply isn't the case when you have a roster full of guys with talent levels that vary wildly between where Carlito is at, and where Gene Snitsky is at.

However, instead of trying to seek out, hire, and encourage that effortless kind of talent while shedding the deadweight, WWE gets upset with those who dare to be more capable than average, and tries to embarrass them with pointlessly petty storylines on TV, and even toys with firing them.

But ultimately, they can't do that. They'll keep trying to browbeat him into mediocrity, and he might willingly leave the next time he has a contractual opportunity to do so. But they won't fire him. Nope, they'll keep running him out there to milk every easily-milked penny they can out of him, all while telling him that he sucks and that he's doing it all wrong.

Obviously, Carlito's recent Civil Disobedience and the trouble it stirred up backstage at WWE is the main inspiration for this piece, but he's far from the only one who is kind of in the same boat. Although most of WWE's more talented performers are willing to suffer silently, we cannot dismiss the Case of Rob Van Dam, who's star power and bankability is undeniable, but who has also done things like pretty much call Johnny Ace an inept buffoon in front of anybody who wants to listen. So with RVD's contract expiring this summer, guess why RVD has yet to be negotiated with in good faith by WWE? Not because there's any question about his talent and ability, but because he happens to know he's talented and able in a company where he's surrounded by retards.

In RVD's case, Ace's sandbagging is being offset by a concerted effort from an increasingly-vocal Shane McMahon, who thinks it'd be stupid to let a top star leave for something that petty... and maybe some day, Carlito will be the beneficiary of the same sort of politicking (or maybe he already has?). But it's still gonna take a lot more than a small minority of progressively-minded and intelligent folks to change a corporate culture that has been so effectively constructed by those who are most directly involved in crafting the product we ultimately see on TV.

I don't know how much influence I could possibly have, but I know as far as WWE employees reading OO, it's not zero. So maybe my closing wish is that -- in the absence of competition from the outside -- somehow we foment controversy and competition on the INSIDE of the company. Encourage a vocal minority to speak out. Encourage guys like Carlito to not buy into the "doing things our way" bullshit. The whole nine.

The goal, obviously, is not to create a sort of corporate bloodbath that ends in massive firings because the Fortified Regime of Mediocrity has the power to do so; that'd be counter-productive.... the goal is to take things just far enough to at least force a Genuine Debate, and to get new ideas out there on the table (quite possibly for the first time in 3 years or longer) and discussed in a meaningful way.

Long live ability, intelligence, and effortless displays of genuine talent! Down with mediocrity, insecurity, and trying to make yourself look better by convincing people your job is more difficult and complex than it actually is.

Then again, keep in mind that the ONLY TIME I ever got in any trouble in high school (the only "demerits" I ever got in four years, actually), was when two friends and I used a Top Ten List to take a veiled shot at our incompetent new principal during our senior year. We were all given one day suspensions for "insubordination." It was, in fact, the only real trouble ANY of us had ever gotten into, as our trio included the class valedictorian (not me) and two other smart guys, all of whom now hold at least one post-graduate degree. In fact, I'm pretty sure we were all so valued as Smart Guys that none of us had to pay for said graduate degrees, either (I know I actually got paid to get mine)..

Anyway, when our parents heard about Attitude Problems, they just thought it was funny as hell, and so the three of us got to spend our "suspension" day screwing around and going to the movies. The principal? Fired after two years.

Winner: us.

Needless to say, the lesson that Insubordination is Cool was instilled in me at a very young age. Your mileage may vary, but it's my long standing belief that if you're smart, able, and right most of the time, you really don't have to put up with any bullshit from people who tend more towards dumb, incompetent, and wrong. My own damned opinion, anyway....

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Flash
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posted on 11-4-2018 at 07:29 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Planet Starbucks
I'm dumbfounded by Braun's booking this past year....


Vince has always had a weird booking approach with some guys; Kinda push them to the moon to start, then cool them off, then rebuild... Strowman is just another victim of that approach.

I think he'll be fine in the long run, but it has been kinda deflating... you get really into a talent and want to see them have that big moment but then they deny you and go so far in the other direction that it's more why am I watching this crap kinda vibe... Then they win and your connection with them is often less.

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SpiNNeR72
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posted on 11-4-2018 at 11:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
To get back on track with what IMO is the saddest thing wrestling-wise about this whole shitty situation.

We just saw one of the best ever return to the ring after 8 years, and step up to carry a match after the relatively regular guy gets injured.

HBK wasn't his former self for sure, but he was still fucking awesome at what he did.

Michaels deserved a Wrestlemania reaction, but instead we we got a guy doing his best for a good friend on a complete wash out of an event.

Its a fucking shame an I hope he wrestles at least one more match to get the ovation he deserves.

Oh yeah, and in case you didn't watch him, he might not be Ricochet, but he could still have a fucking awesome match with AJ, Bryan, Joe, or, best of all, as a Canadian Heel against a returning Owens.

Even in America..

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Frank Lloyd Wright
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posted on 11-5-2018 at 04:16 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I enjoyed Crown Jewel based on the fact we got a heck of a lot of wrestling. It wasn't perfect, by any means, but still good. The Shane-O Mac win was a bit baffling, but I'm sure it will somehow be tied into Survivor Series.

Loved seeing Michaels in the ring again. He still has something left in the tank. It would be nice to see him in a match with a guy like AJ Styles. But even if he winds up going against Taker and retiring him at Wrestlemania, I would be good with that.

I rarely agree with Kevin Nash, him being a hardcore lefty aside, but what he said regarding this event and the WWE made sense: "Honor it's contract. It's entertainment not a UN summit."





I have two ambitions in life: one is to drink every pub dry, the other is to sleep with every woman on earth -- Oliver Reed

American architect, interior designer, writer, educator, and wrestling fan.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-5-2018 at 05:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not singling anyone out here but it's damn sad that an actual great PPV like Evolution only gets two pages worth of comments but a piece of shit drain-circler like Crown Jewel is up to three pages.





Well you know, just because these young men have little education and live in squalor, it doesn't entitle them to commit antisocial behaviour and get away with it.

it's a child molesting robot

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GodEatGod
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posted on 11-5-2018 at 06:17 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Not singling anyone out here but it's damn sad that an actual great PPV like Evolution only gets two pages worth of comments but a piece of shit drain-circler like Crown Jewel is up to three pages.


It's hard to believe the same company produced both within the same week.





"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey

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CCharger
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posted on 11-5-2018 at 07:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote


"Why? Because we can. Because you'll keep giving us your money no matter WHAT we do or HOW we do it or WHY we do it or WHO we do it with. That's because you're what we call in the business a 'mark'."





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

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Flash
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posted on 11-5-2018 at 09:25 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Talk about there literally being no better set of circumstances in which to bring back Hogan... I mean they're going to get shit on no matter what... Maybe the WWE just found a reason to continue with the Crown Jewel crap; just line up every potential bad headline and unleash them on that day and few will notice.
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