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Author: Subject: Nu-Metal and Rap Rock
TownOfDalem
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posted on 8-24-2018 at 09:41 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Nu-Metal and Rap Rock

https://www.avclub.com/in-1998-rap-rock-and-nu-metal-really-did-seem-like-the-1828367971

I read this fun/interesting article this week called “In 1998, rap-rock and nu-metal really did seem like the future” mostly about the Korn and Kid Rock albums that came out that year and became huge hits. As someone who was 12 and really just starting to get into music that year this was a fun look back. I never owned or particularly liked either of those albums, but the singles from them were freaking inescapable in middle school. I instantly hated Kid Rock and time has surely reflected well on that opinion. Korn I didn’t particularly care for, but didn’t hate them. I even enjoy Freak on a Leash. In general, I enjoyed Nu-metal as a genre though it hasn’t aged well. I’ll still ride for Orgy’s first album Candyass as a fun one. Early Linkin Park, some System of a Down are others that hold up pretty well. Does Alien Ant Farm count? If so I might put them number one.

The late 90s was a tough time to be a kid just discovering music who preferred rock. In general, I think some of the Alternative Rock of that time has aged better.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 8-24-2018 at 10:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Both genres created a lot of good singles but the worth of them both is debatable beyond that. They kind of deserve a lot of mockery that they get, mostly because of the overwhelming swinging-dick obnoxiousness and deliberate stupidity that too many of the performers (e.g., Kid Rock, Fred Durst, ICP) put on display as their primary public image. Rap-rock especially took a huge hit at Woodstock 99, thanks to that ridiculous fucking riot at the end of the festival by the white-boy shitheads in the audience that Durst & Limp Bizkit had triggered. It unfortunately kind of summed up the whole end of the 1990's perfectly, that the heights achieved by grunge were over & done with. Rock kind of stood for nothing anymore and had basically been wrecked by a pack of chaotic & moronic vandals. They tried to grab and exploit what punk had done twenty years previously but their completely lacking any point at all for why they were doing it, thanks to their "rage" being completely pre-packaged and thus totally insincere, turned most of what they made into something worthless.

Like I said, they did have a lot of great singles, even from Kid Rock and Bizkit. Great albums though? Nah, not really. An hour-long CD of that kind of mentality was just too much to put one's self through. Overall if both rap-rock and nu-metal had never happened then nothing would really be missed today.



[Edited on 8/24/2018 by Paddlefoot]





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williamssl
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posted on 8-24-2018 at 10:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Overall if both rap-rock and nu-metal had never happened then nothing would really be missed today.





Biker 'Taker was my favorite incarnation of the Undertaker, and his Kid Rock entrance theme played a big part of that. I would miss that.

[Edited on 8-24-2018 by williamssl]





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 8-24-2018 at 11:29 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I own a P.O.D. CD because I like Youth Of The Nation and (Here Come The) Boom! What can I say?





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CamstunPWG187
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posted on 8-25-2018 at 07:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I liked a lot if nu-metal and rap-rock.

That music is the sound of 99-2003. It’s extremely nostalgic for me and where I was during that time.

Felt invincible back in those days. Not to say these days don’t rock for their own reasons, but back then, it was just different.

Unloco’s ‘Crashing’, Linkin Park’s ‘Runaway’, and POD’s ‘Youth of a Nation’ really stand out, for me.

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bopol
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posted on 8-25-2018 at 09:52 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
With few exceptions, the rap-rock and thing broke little new ground, hence making it a derivative depending on good feelings about other work. I'm not surprised it hasn't stood up well with time (especially the Kid Rock 2nd rate rap with the background of great 70s rock copied).

Other great musical sounds usually were started by actually breaking new ground with great bands putting out fabulous albums (CDs, whatever).

Similarly, but I will at least give some testament to these bands having reasonable musical talent, the nu-metal sound wasn't all that innovative at the time either. There was a steady progression towards more grinding sound in metal and less speed. Pantera was pushing that way; Godsmack was putting out some fine work. Korn was an evolution of that, but not a revolution, a band with a fine sound that complemented a group of fine musicians, but I am hardpressed to think they are somehow massively different than a typical good 80s rock band (say Night Ranger) that had some good chops and created some fine songs, but they never were a Van Halen, Bee Gees or Nirvana that defined a whole new sound.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 8-25-2018 at 10:14 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
Other great musical sounds usually were started by actually breaking new ground with great bands putting out fabulous albums (CDs, whatever).


Maybe off the radar a bit given that the harder European sound of the same era deliberately avoided the faux-attitude given off by the contemporary American bands, but if you emphasise on unique new sounds then Rammstein has to be added to the list. Their first four (maybe five) albums completely blew away most new metal and pretty much all of the lesser bands that were trying to exploit what was left of grunge. Definitely one of the better and wildly inventive groups to come out of that period from, say, 1996 thru to the mid-00's.





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denverpunk
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posted on 8-26-2018 at 04:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I found nu- metal generally repugnant and unfun, but the genesis of the genre remains one of my favorite bands of all time: Faith No More, who were more interested in being weird and arty than being misogynistic gay-hating creeps.

I really liked System of a Down (who had more than a little Mr. Bungle in them, go figure), and I kind of dug Korn’s low end grooves, especially on songs like “Here to Stay”. The rest of the genre can fuck off and stay in the angry white boy dustbin that it now resides in.

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posted on 8-26-2018 at 04:40 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
Does Alien Ant Farm count? If so I might put them number one.


As a big Alien Ant Farm fan, I wouldn't really lump them into the nu-metal/rap rock genre. I mean, they did kind of get that label due to their "Smooth Criminal" cover, but if you listen to their catalog beyond that, they really didn't have a ton in common with most of their peers from that era.



quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
I found nu- metal generally repugnant and unfun, but the genesis of the genre remains one of my favorite bands of all time: Faith No More, who were more interested in being weird and arty than being misogynistic gay-hating creeps.


Faith No More is my favorite band of all time and I do think it's funny that so many nu-metal/rap rock bands cited them as a big influence, considering most of the music they were making bore little resemblance to what Faith No More did. And I'm pretty sure Mike Patton once apologized in an interview for being an influence on that whole scene.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 12-31-2018 at 02:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Bump, just to ask a question - did anyone here really fall for Marilyn Manson's stupid spooky shit from the mid-90's to 2000's? The were playing one of his idiot songs on the car radio earlier and I shut it off as quickly as I could. I do give Manson credit for a couple of really good songs like Fight and The Dope Show but pretty much all the rest of his stuff, especially that cover of the Eurythmics song, just irritates me. I just had no time for the pseudo-"edginess" of naming the guys in the band after serial killers or the whole ridiculous Anne Rice-esque way they'd dress with all the pathetic vampire/movie-monster vibe. Things like that really aren't "shock", as much as they're merely tedious low-imagination shlock.

Just wondering what you guys think. I always considered it a surprise that Manson even ended up with such long-lasting popularity because to me that kind of pop-culture horror stuff is just a silly joke, just like with Alice Cooper back in the 1970's, or how Insane Clown Posse somehow still remains a thing to this very day by milking their own pseudo-transgressive gimmick to it's end limit. I have a hard time believing anyone with some remaining brain cells to rub together would get attracted to any of these things because IMO it's as much of a total crock as Fred Durst pushing himself as some kind of a genuine tough guy. Hell, I'd have more respect for Marilyn Manson if he really did have some ribs surgically removed just so he could fold up in half like a shrimp in order to suck his own dick than for anything he's ever done musically or culturally.

[Edited on 12-31-2018 by Paddlefoot]





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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 12-31-2018 at 02:32 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I wouldn't call him one of the my all-time favorites or anything, but I've long had a certain amount of appreciation for Marilyn Manson. I never thought he was, like, speaking to my tortured soul or whatever, but he could put together a pretty enjoyable little nu-metal song with reasonable reliability. When I had only a passing familiarity with him, I suppose I might have believed he was actually a big fan of ol' Satan, but as soon as I started paying even a modicum of attention to his music, it was pretty immediately obvious it was all an act, and a pretty transparent one at that. Though I certainly respect how good a job he did of creating that persona, both in terms of suckering in true believers and in terms of scaring the pants off moral guardians.

I heard a new single from him called "KILL4ME" on the radio a year or so back, and found it to be pretty entertaining tune, albeit filtered through the lens of my deep and abiding love for crappy music.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 12-31-2018 at 02:57 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
To each their own I guess. I always think it should be music first and the image second. Like Judas Priest's leather gimmick is fairly cheesy in hindsight - the only really great thing about it was the way Rob Halford fooled all the straights who were completely oblivious to his enthusiastic personal involvement in the gay leather scene. At the same time though Priest always had the music as their first priority, something that always separated them or Iron Maiden or Nirvana or Soundgarden from their much, much lesser successors in the nu-metal/post-grunge scene we've been talking about here.

I'd have to say that nu-metal should be more correctly put in the same category as any other sort of easily-manufactured & easily-digested pop music. Except for a couple of good songs that these bands generate the bulk of what they make is infinitely forgettable, and that evaluation definitely applies to most of the pop that's been produced from the 1950's thru to today. There's a money-making niche for it, definitely, and if it makes their fans happy then good for them. Overall though it really has no true depth or relevance to it and shouldn't be taken at anything other than face value.





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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 12-31-2018 at 04:20 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well, hey, "music first image second" isn't by any means a bad philosophy to follow. But if you can't pull off good music -- and I would imagine a lot of nu-metal musicians couldn't, otherwise they would have pursued different genres -- it's better to be all image than go back to washing dishes at IHOP, you know? You're right that the genre is just a degree or two away from standard heavily-manufactured pop; really, during its heyday, all that separated nu-metal from pop was heavy guitar riffs, shouting and profanity. And even then, it sometimes didn't, which was how you had the likes of Kid Rock and Linkin Park slowly migrating to the pop stations.

Another thing to Marilyn Manson's credit: He really never pretended to believe the stuff he was singing about. I mean, I'm pretty sure he was giving interviews as early as the late 1990s, talking about how his whole act was all a publicity stunt. Meanwhile, it's almost 2019 and Korn is still talking about how its music is a true expression of all the rage its members feel inside, or something.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 12-31-2018 at 08:43 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Manson’s act was, much like Kiss, started as a way to sell the live show. And I can appreciate that. Musically, he peaked with Mechanical Animals. Coma White is probably my favourite song of his.
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bopol
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posted on 1-1-2019 at 12:09 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I always felt that Manson spoke to a lot of kids of fundamentalists that had a lot of bullshit crammed down their throats and pushed back (Manson was one of those kids). Rebellion in that case takes a weird form. Manson himself seems like a thoughtful decent man, but I think he is trying to shock those that would claim he is the devil incarnate because he rejects the heretical Christianity doled out by those nuts. Factor in that it makes an awesome stage show and you have the beginnings of an interesting musical act. His music was/is just ok though.

Ghost is a modern version of this - except with much, much better music.

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denverpunk
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posted on 1-4-2019 at 12:15 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I always felt that Manson spoke to a lot of kids of fundamentalists that had a lot of bullshit crammed down their throats and pushed back (Manson was one of those kids). Rebellion in that case takes a weird form. Manson himself seems like a thoughtful decent man, but I think he is trying to shock those that would claim he is the devil incarnate because he rejects the heretical Christianity doled out by those nuts. Factor in that it makes an awesome stage show and you have the beginnings of an interesting musical act. His music was/is just ok though.

Ghost is a modern version of this - except with much, much better music.


I think this is a great point, and a big reason why I never really "got" Marilyn Manson - I wasn't one of those fundamentalists' kids. I had a pretty lucky background and couldn't relate to him, similar to Juggalos and ICP. I don't get it, but I wouldn't, and I understand that.

Aesthetically, though, I think the music is pretty garbage. Lots of screamy gimmick nonsense. I always thought "Cake and Sodomy" packed a pretty nice wallop, and "The Beautiful People" is pretty inescapable at this point, but I never really liked anything else, and as I was wondering why Trent Reznor of all people was championing someone who had a talent for publicity but little else.

One thing I do completely respect about Manson, though, is how he told the fundamentalists to fuck off after trying to blame him for Colombine.

Funny story about my first exposure to Nu Metal - we were at a college party and someone was raving about this new CD that we should all listen to. It was Limp Bizkit's cover of "Faith". We were all, "What the fuck is this shit? Put Fugazi back on". Little did we know....

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bopol
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posted on 1-5-2019 at 06:29 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
I was wondering why Trent Reznor of all people was championing someone who had a talent for publicity but little else.




I've always wondered if they connected in Cleveland (Renzor was in the Cleveland rock scene for a few years) and it was more old friends supporting each other.





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