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Author: Subject: Well, Fuck, time to move
OOMike
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posted on 6-27-2018 at 09:16 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well, Fuck, time to move

If you haven't heard, Justice Kennedy, has announced his retirement effective July 31st. Which means the moderate swing-vote SC Justice is going to be replaced by a strong right-wing Justice, that will probably be in his 50's so he can serve for 20-30 years and keep the court on the right for a generation.

I am sure the GOP will rush to hold hearings and a vote before the mid-terms and remove any possibility of the Dems from having a say in the matter.

This shit right here was my biggest fear come true. A right leaning court for 20 years that will roll back abortion, gay rights, civil rights, business responsibility, etc.

Trump/Pence presidency was bad, but I thought it would only be 4 years bad, (looks like 2 with the Dems poised to take at least one chamber of Congress) but this shit is going to set this country back 60 years.

I am thinking I really need to look at emigrating to Canada.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 6-27-2018 at 09:41 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I imagine it could be lessened in awfulness somewhat by the Dems refusing any co-operation whatsoever and filibustering the committee vote. Or just make the basic demand that no appointment be made until after the November elections. But what am I say, these are Dems so of course they're going to completely cave in and approve another Scalia/Alito/Gorsuch being appointed. Gotta take the high road, be civil, all that other meaningless crap, etc, etc, etc.





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Flash
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posted on 6-27-2018 at 10:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think because of the Democrats attempts to hold up the last appointment new senate rules mean that the Republicans only need 51 votes now... So yeah; can't see them getting this appointment punted down until post-November.
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bopol
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posted on 6-28-2018 at 08:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The last twenty years have exposed some failures in the Constitution and our judicial branch.

1) I believe that, in creating a system that put the slave states on par with the free states to get everyone together ended up creating an electoral system that gives the states with weak economies too much power. The end result is that Wyoming gets 3 electoral votes and 2 senators and California gets 56 electoral votes and 2 senators despite have 60 times the population. So, you end with Democrats getting 59% of the popular vote for the Senate but being in the minority.

2) We have ignored white collar crime in this country and now we just accept criminal behavior from our leadership. Look at the financial crisis. Remember anyone going to jail? Nope. Look at how companies break the law and end up with fines that are smaller than the amount gained by the wrongdoing and no one being held personally responsible.

These two have been basically combined into a perfect storm where the Republicans now hold all 3 branches of the government despite getting the minority of the votes and now freely push forward candidates that have are criminal.





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Flash
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posted on 6-29-2018 at 08:21 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Do you guys think that building your justice system on a 300-ish year old document and what a bunch of guys from that era thought about things is maybe the underlying fault in the American POV at this point in time?

Don't get me wrong; lot's of good ideas in there, but as Jim Jeffries pointed out in one of his specials lot's of countries have a constitution and don't run around banging their drum about it constantly.

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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 6-29-2018 at 12:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I don't know how it is in other countries, but unhealthy reverence for inanimate objects is a crucial part of our culture here in the U.S. Flags, guns, cars, 200-year-old pieces of paper...

For a lot of folks, those things are way more important than other people. Or, at least, other people who fall within unapproved categories (black, gay, Muslim, etc.).

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Thom
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posted on 6-29-2018 at 03:01 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Do you guys think that building your justice system on a 300-ish year old document and what a bunch of guys from that era thought about things is maybe the underlying fault in the American POV at this point in time?

Don't get me wrong; lot's of good ideas in there, but as Jim Jeffries pointed out in one of his specials lot's of countries have a constitution and don't run around banging their drum about it constantly.



I think that Jefferson et al understood that times changed. As such, they made it such that the Constitution could be amended as needed. Unfortunately, we - as a whole - haven't done a good enough job adjusting our Constitution to the ever-changing world we live in. And now - with the insane us-vs-them mentality much of the nation seems to have, as well as the pathological need to keep office/power by the politicians - I don't see it getting better anytime soon.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 6-29-2018 at 06:39 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Look into who these days most wants the constitution re-opened for revision. It's some of the worst right-wingers you can find behind the biggest push for a new constitutional convention. Not only would you not get the 2nd Amendment revised or abolish, but across the entire foundational documents everything would become markedly worse. Things like abolishing all labour unions forever or enshrining corporate rights as equal or greater than individual rights would be the least worst things they would do. Want to see an official state religion along the lines of what the Christian Talibaptists are longing for? Well, go re-open the American constitution and see what happens to anyone who doesn't belong to the proper church or political party.





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bopol
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posted on 6-29-2018 at 11:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I don't know how you fix it. The problem is representation, where the Republican party has drifted into racist crazy because the votes it gains you are worth in economically shitty areas are worth far more than those they lose in places that are economically strong. This really never has happened before where one party has given up representing the majority of the country for the sake of keeping power.





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CCharger
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posted on 7-2-2018 at 06:30 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I don't know how you fix it. The problem is representation, where the Republican party has drifted into racist crazy because the votes it gains you are worth in economically shitty areas are worth far more than those they lose in places that are economically strong. This really never has happened before where one party has given up representing the majority of the country for the sake of keeping power.

But America has ALWAYS been about keeping elites in control. That's the whole reason the Electoral College exists - to keep the rowdy masses from electing someone who might dismantle the power structure. That's the reason the Senate and not the House is the more powerful half of Congress.

The rich and powerful control both parties and all of mainstream media and therefore all of government. They will stop at nothing to keep any populist rebellion from happening - including funding and co-opting it (see Tea Party Movement) or remaining silent while it is crushed (Occupy Wall Street).

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anglefan85
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posted on 7-2-2018 at 07:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I don't know how you fix it. The problem is representation, where the Republican party has drifted into racist crazy because the votes it gains you are worth in economically shitty areas are worth far more than those they lose in places that are economically strong. This really never has happened before where one party has given up representing the majority of the country for the sake of keeping power.

But America has ALWAYS been about keeping elites in control. That's the whole reason the Electoral College exists - to keep the rowdy masses from electing someone who might dismantle the power structure. That's the reason the Senate and not the House is the more powerful half of Congress.

The rich and powerful control both parties and all of mainstream media and therefore all of government. They will stop at nothing to keep any populist rebellion from happening - including funding and co-opting it (see Tea Party Movement) or remaining silent while it is crushed (Occupy Wall Street).


Except in this case, where the Electoral College allowed someone to become President that seems hell-bent on dismantling the power structure.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 7-3-2018 at 03:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Occupy wasn't crushed either. It sort of fizzled out on it's own and fell to the usual in-fighting on the left that rips apart too many grass roots attempts at change. Like Obama himself said there was nothing he could legally do about the Wall Street criminals anyway because too many decades of the GOP re-writing white-collar and commercial crime laws essentially meant that there weren't any active statutes anymore that the schemers behind the 2008 collapse had violated. Just re-write it so it's not a crime anymore and no matter the damage it causes it effectively makes the perpetrator not a criminal in the technical sense of the law.





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bopol
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posted on 7-3-2018 at 03:19 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well, and Pad's comments just goes back to, we've let white collar criminals break the law for years and get away with it, so we shouldn't be surprised when a large portion of the population doesn't see the criminality of the current occupant of the White House. But I do think the Occupy Wall Street movement did cost Romney the election in 2012 and I do think in many ways, the Democrats' failure to attack this sort of crime cost them in 2016.

To CC's comment, I've heard that the Trump movement and the Resistance movement are opposite sides of the same coin - groups that are sick of the current power structure. In a lot of ways, that is true. Look at the Latina bartender taking down the long-time Congressman in NY. Both sides are sick of the people in charge. Unfortunately, you get a Trump who is a divider and uses that to get elected when we could have possibly had a true uniter (don't know if I think Bernie was the guy).





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CCharger
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posted on 7-3-2018 at 01:12 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Occupy wasn't crushed either. It sort of fizzled out on it's own and fell to the usual in-fighting on the left that rips apart too many grass roots attempts at change.

"On October 1, 2011, a large group of protesters set out to walk across the Brooklyn Bridge resulting in 700 arrests, the largest number of arrests in one day at any Occupy event. Some said the police had tricked protesters, allowing them onto the bridge, and even escorting them partway across. Jesse A. Myerson, a media coordinator for Occupy Wall Street said, "The cops watched and did nothing, indeed, seemed to guide us onto the roadway."A spokesman for the New York Police Department, Paul Browne, said that protesters were given multiple warnings to stay on the sidewalk and not block the street, and were arrested when they refused. By October 2, all but 20 of the arrestees had been released with citations for disorderly conduct and a criminal court summons.[178] On October 4, a group of protesters who were arrested on the bridge filed a lawsuit against the city, alleging that officers had violated their constitutional rights by luring them into a trap and then arresting them."

"Shortly after midnight on November 15, 2011, the New York City Police Department gave protesters notice from the park's owner (Brookfield Office Properties) to leave Zuccotti Park due to its purportedly unsanitary and hazardous conditions. The notice stated that they could return without sleeping bags, tarps or tents. About an hour later, police in riot gear began removing protesters from the park, arresting some 200 people in the process, including a number of journalists."

"On December 31, 2011, protesters started to re-occupy the park. At one point, protesters started to push police barricades into the streets. Police quickly put the barricades back up. Occupiers then started to take down barricades from all sides of the park and stored them in a pile in the middle of Zuccotti Park. Police called in reinforcements as more activists entered the park. Police tried to enter the park but were pushed back by protesters. There were reports of pepper-spray being used by the police. About 12:40 am after the group celebrated New Years in the park, they exited the park and marched down Broadway. Police in riot gear started to clear out the park around 1:30 am. Sixty-eight people were arrested in connection with the event, including one accused of stabbing a police officer in the hand with a pair of scissors."

"Gideon Oliver, who represented Occupy with the National Lawyers Guild in New York, said about 2,000 [protesters] had been arrested just in New York City alone. Most of these arrests in New York and elsewhere, are on charges of disorderly conduct, trespassing, and failure to disperse. Nationally, a little under 8,000 Occupy affiliated arrests have been documented by tallying numbers published in local newspapers."

"In a report that followed an eight-month study, researchers at the law schools of NYU and Fordham accuse the NYPD of deploying unnecessarily aggressive force, obstructing press freedoms and making arbitrary and baseless arrests."

In June 2012, a federal judge ruled that the protesters had not received sufficient warning."

SOURCE: Wikipedia. There are links to verified sources in the article. This was nothing less than a coordinated government crackdown of a left-wing populist dissident movement.

Also, I've seen this other places...that Trump is somehow a renegade seeking to overturn to the power structure. This is laughable. The man is a billionaire. His friends are all millionaires and billionaires. Most of his cabinet officials are millionaires and billionaires. His administration is busy eliminating government regulations over multiple industries including energy and the financial sector. He's not "tearing down the power structure"; he's tearing down the last vestiges of pretense that we are anything except a corporate oligarchy in which elected officials represent no one except the interests of the elites.

[Edited on 7-3-2018 by CCharger]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 7-3-2018 at 05:34 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It didn't kill the movement though. A few police interventions and mass arrests or even some jailhouse brutality generally can't stop a real protest organization. The committed Occupy-ers all became Bernie supporters and just chose an actual socialist in NYC as a candidate for November. The street protests over Wall Street criminality though? That mostly petered out altogether as the economy improved in Obama's second term.





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