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Author: Subject: PPV DISCUSSION: RAW presents Elimination Chamber 2018
First 9
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 08:41 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not really sure how Braun is any more relatable than Roman if the logic is that fans won't get behind somebody that's not like them.

It's like people forget about Nash, Orton or the other rejected super faces of year's past. They don't have to outrightly suck to be boring and uninteresting. Hell, I don't think there's a Roman match that's as good as the masterpiece that Diesel vs Bret was at Survivor Series and that did shit for turning the tide on the 90s version of Roman.

I don't hate Roman, hell I think he's a lot better than Super Cena 08, but he's just kind of dull and blaming the audience for his lukewarm reactions is asinine.

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GodEatGod
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 08:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
All I care about is that they get the damn belt off Lesnar's huffing, puffing red lobster part-time ass. They could put it on Dana Brooke for all I care, I'm just sick of him. Go, Team Roman, as far as I'm concerned.





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DKBroiler
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 09:21 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Not really sure how Braun is any more relatable than Roman if the logic is that fans won't get behind somebody that's not like them.

It's like people forget about Nash, Orton or the other rejected super faces of year's past. They don't have to outrightly suck to be boring and uninteresting. Hell, I don't think there's a Roman match that's as good as the masterpiece that Diesel vs Bret was at Survivor Series and that did shit for turning the tide on the 90s version of Roman.

I don't hate Roman, hell I think he's a lot better than Super Cena 08, but he's just kind of dull and blaming the audience for his lukewarm reactions is asinine.


Fair point. The only real difference - and I say this as a guy who instantly latched onto Braun - is that Braun isn’t Roman. Anyone who was gonna come along and make a career out of mangling Roman’s face was gonna be cheered. The fact that he is awesome only helps that.

Weird side note: don’t forget about Jason Jordan’s roll in all of this. He only became a heel by default. That shit was obviously not the plan at first. Jordan was sooooooo close to being the next non-face face to get booed for being too perfect, but unlike Cena and Reigns they called an audible. Jordan absorbing the “I hate your face” jeers was helping Roman a lot. Now he’s out and we’re back into RoBOOOO ReBOOOOOO mode.





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DKBroiler
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 09:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
All I care about is that they get the damn belt off Lesnar's huffing, puffing red lobster part-time ass. They could put it on Dana Brooke for all I care, I'm just sick of him. Go, Team Roman, as far as I'm concerned.


I love Brock Smash matches but even I agree at this point. The Title needs to be back on TV.





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royberto
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 09:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Perfectly fine, if predictable, show. I'm fine with Roman winning and don't have the interest to argue about it with people anymore.


Yup, this is me at this point. It's clear that the WWE is charging ahead with Reigns as raising the belt at the end of Mania. No amount of bitching and complaining is going to stop it. Have at it, Vince.

You win.
Unless Cena-Taker closes mania with a Taker victory.

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royberto
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 09:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Punk Munkee
Why does Alexa HAVE to be a chickenshit heel? Why do people hate the Yankees? Tom Brady? Steph/LeBron? Because they WIN in your face. I think of Alexa as the same way. Brady's not winning any 100 yard dashes, but he can throw. She's not the best technical wrestler, but she has big time moves and convincingly wins, then trolls the whole crowd perfectly. Just incredible. And she's smokin'. No complaints here. Also, if she's really going to face Asuka, I like her looking like she can beat anyone else on any night, even when the odds are not in her favor or she doesn't like the circumstances.
Because being a chickenshit is how she got over in the first place. That is what got her over in the feud with Becky.

It's also because of her size. She shouldn't be dominiating people much larger than her. That is why the booking of her match with Charlotte was complete shit. You would never book Rey Mysterio to dominate Big Show, so you should never book Bliss to dominate a woman in Charlotte who is twice her size.

And finally she is now hitting Stephanie McMahon loves of not getting comeuppance. Every single person she goes up against ends up either looking like a chump or completely buried because Bliss tells them they are losers and then proves it while her opponent looks like an idiot in the process. Proper booking would be that Bliss talks a big game, but has to cheat and take every way out because we would absolutely get destroyed by those that are much bigger than her.

There is absolutely no reason to invest in any feud Bliss has because she never loses and her opponents are never allowed to get the best of her. She has now beaten every single member of the Raw womens division decisively save Nia and Auska and that is because they are saving that for later.

Alexa Reigns is the worst of Roman Reigns, John Cena, and Stephanie all rolled into one Yet people defend her booking like sheep while bitching about the same booking of the other 3. The hypocrisy is deafening.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 10:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
All I care about is that they get the damn belt off Lesnar's huffing, puffing red lobster part-time ass. They could put it on Dana Brooke for all I care, I'm just sick of him. Go, Team Roman, as far as I'm concerned.


Agree 100%. You complete me. Plus Roman had one of the best years over the last twelve odd months of any performer in a long time. This shitty hate for him is long since past being tedious.

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Count Zero
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 10:20 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Perfectly fine, if predictable, show. I'm fine with Roman winning and don't have the interest to argue about it with people anymore.


Yup, this is me at this point. It's clear that the WWE is charging ahead with Reigns as raising the belt at the end of Mania. No amount of bitching and complaining is going to stop it. Have at it, Vince.

You win.


It really does feel like we’ve reached full on Stockholm Syndrome at this point.
Bro(-iler), it's called the "John Cena Plan", and we've been on it for awhile now. Cena was edgy and popular, so they overpushed him. That backfired, and "we" hated Cena until we finally gave up hating him. Then he started trying harder and somehow won the respect of "most of the WWEUniverse" (if not most of the so-called IWC). In a year or two, Roman is going to bust out hurricanranas and tope con hilos and 450 splashes, and "we" are going to begrudgingly credit him for expanding his moveset.

[Edited on 2-26-2018 by Count Zero]





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williamssl
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 10:28 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by royberto
Because being a chickenshit is how she got over in the first place. That is what got her over in the feud with Becky.




Nah - her feud with Becky convinced her that she didn't really need to be a chickenshit since Becky was so easily beatable.

If anything, Becky is to blame for what you're seeing that you don't like in Alexa.

[Edited on 2-26-2018 by williamssl]





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 10:40 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'd like to know how Alexa "dominated" anyone, considering she pinned a Bayley that had already been softened up by Sasha, and then pinned Sasha after kicking her legs out from under her, causing her to hit her face on the chamber glass, and then doing some kind of DDT off the top-rope. There were skills there on display, mostly dirty chickenshitty ones, but it wasn't a domination on the level of what Braun did to four or five guys in a row in the Men's EC.

Some people are simply letting their emotions get the better of them. Not a lot of this criticism is making much, if any, sense at all anymore.

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Frank Lloyd Wright
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 10:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I'd like to know how Alexa "dominated" anyone, considering she pinned a Bayley that had already been softened up by Sasha, and then pinned Sasha after kicking her legs out from under her, causing her to hit her face on the chamber glass, and then doing some kind of DDT off the top-rope. There were skills there on display, mostly dirty chickenshitty ones, but it wasn't a domination on the level of what Braun did to four or five guys in a row in the Men's EC.

Some people are simply letting their emotions get the better of them. Not a lot of this criticism is making much, if any, sense at all anymore.


You took the words right out of my mouth. People are making it sound like Alexa took out a bazooka and blasted her competition away. Personally, I think Alexa has improved quite a bit in the ring and she can talk circles around most women on the roster. Also, you can't argue that she is way over with the live audience. That's something hard for a heel to achieve.

In regards to Roman, I don't hate the guy. Just don't think he's good enough to be the new face of the company and constantly receive the Superman push. I've come to grips that he will win the championship at Mania. Where they go from there should be interesting, because there are guys on that roster that can run circles around him, both in the ring and on the mic.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 11:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'd also like to know exactly why I'm supposed to boo someone like Alexa like I'm some kind of Pavlov's dog just because she's a heel. When Austin was a heel half the crowd was still cheering for him. Same with The Rock. I absolutely loved Heel Angle over Face Angle. Same with guys and gals ranging from Batista, Flair, Christian, Jericho, and Trish Stratus. Anyone miss the quite part for four years in WCW where more than half the audience was cheering for the NWO as they lay waste to the nerd faces? Fuck, you can go back to Savage vs. Hogan and hear a large part of the crowd cheering for Macho. Watch WM3 again and you can see people openly cheering for Andre over Hogan. Saying that one must absolutely cheer faces only and boo heels only is creating a bogus dividing line that hasn't existed in this business since the days of old hairy fat guy matches broadcast in black-and-white on weekend TV from the early 1970's.

This isn't about WWE booking wrong or the performers fucking things up. This is now entirely about certain fans constantly moving the goalposts of what's good or acceptable for specious reasons of their own, based on little more than who they hate or don't hate at the moment. I'll cheer for who I want if I'm having fun doing so. I'm under no obligation to follow some other fucking guy's interpretation of how to be a proper fan of this silly spectacle.





[Edited on 2/26/2018 by Paddlefoot]

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royberto
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 11:43 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Frank Lloyd Wright
You took the words right out of my mouth. People are making it sound like Alexa took out a bazooka and blasted her competition away. Personally, I think Alexa has improved quite a bit in the ring and she can talk circles around most women on the roster. Also, you can't argue that she is way over with the live audience. That's something hard for a heel to achieve.
Not really. When you are the only one allowed to have a character and everyone else has to look like an idiot when going up against her, it isn't hard at all. If everyone else was booked like Alexa is, Alexa would be exposed for just how terrible she is.

Also, she is absolute shit at taking bumps. There is as much air between her and her opponent's offensive move as there is between Shane McMahon's punches and his opponent. She absolutely recoils from contact and falls away before she even comes close. It looks beyond ridiculous.

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Nah - her feud with Becky convinced her that she didn't really need to be a chickenshit since Becky was so easily beatable.

If anything, Becky is to blame for what you're seeing that you don't like in Alexa.

[Edited on 2-26-2018 by williamssl]
But she was a chickenshit and that is what got her over. She knew she couldn't win a fair fight, so she cheated every which way she could.

So, no, Bceky isn't to blame for anything. That is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at trolling.

[Edited on 2-26-2018 by royberto]

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royberto
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posted on 2-26-2018 at 11:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I'd like to know how Alexa "dominated" anyone, considering she pinned a Bayley that had already been softened up by Sasha, and then pinned Sasha after kicking her legs out from under her, causing her to hit her face on the chamber glass, and then doing some kind of DDT off the top-rope. There were skills there on display, mostly dirty chickenshitty ones, but it wasn't a domination on the level of what Braun did to four or five guys in a row in the Men's EC.

Some people are simply letting their emotions get the better of them. Not a lot of this criticism is making much, if any, sense at all anymore.
Because she got all the offense while barely even being touched in response. It is an elimination chamber and she set the record for taking least amount of abuse taken. Every one took a significant beating except her. When Roman Reigns does that, everyone here bitches.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 12:01 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If you're going to play the face/heel dynamic like it's some kind of religious orthodoxy that can never ever be questioned then you could at least acknowledge that it's the face, not the heel, that's typically obligated to do the overcome-all-odds routine and make a miracle happen after taking an amount of abuse that would kill a normal person.

The last ten minutes of the Women's EC with Alexa, Bayley, and Sasha was actually a pretty decent modern-era wrestling match. I really don't see why it has to be made into something more by people who were obviously going to whine and complain about it no matter what the outcome was. Which also puts their complaints into question because when in the hell has anything major really happened on ANY PPV going into Wrestlemania. Elimination Chamber was just an advancement of stories towards the Big Event. It wasn't ever going to be anything else.

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royberto
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 12:23 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
If you're going to play the face/heel dynamic like it's some kind of religious orthodoxy that can never ever be questioned then you could at least acknowledge that it's the face, not the heel, that's typically obligated to do the overcome-all-odds routine and make a miracle happen after taking an amount of abuse that would kill a normal person.

The last ten minutes of the Women's EC with Alexa, Bayley, and Sasha was actually a pretty decent modern-era wrestling match. I really don't see why it has to be made into something more by people who were obviously going to whine and complain about it no matter what the outcome was. Which also puts their complaints into question because when in the hell has anything major really happened on ANY PPV going into Wrestlemania. Elimination Chamber was just an advancement of stories towards the Big Event. It wasn't ever going to be anything else.
Go watch Honky Tonk Man matches from the late 80's. That is what Alexa should be. Taking beatings and getting fluke pins. Constantly going ove everyone and never getting comeuppance or any sort of beatings kills interest in the division because you don't give anyone a reason to believe Alexa Reigns will lose. Hell, Roman himself has lost a TON more than Than Alexa has the past year and everyone bitches about how Reigns wins too much.

aAnd just because major things haven't historically happened in any PPV going into the Big Even doesn't mean it never should happen. Building to Sasha vs.Auska at Mania instead of blowing it off right away after the Royal Rumble would have been far better than this idiotic Alexa Reigns bullshit push.

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CCharger
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 03:33 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The problem with Roman was NEVER Roman.

Roman is a slightly above average WWE performer. His moveset is adequate for a guy his size. His look is great. His promo skills are...OK.

He's fine. Roman is...fine.

The problem with Roman was Vince and HHH. They looked at the guy and immediately saw dollar signs, and immediately gave him a forced, artificial push. The fans recognized this orchestrated bullshit and pushed back. Daniel Bryan's simultaneous organic groundswell only highlighted these shenanigans. Roman's immature, douchey responses to the negative reaction only heightened things.

When fans boo Roman, they aren't booing Roman. They are booing Vince's notion that the fans have to like whoever he wants them to like. It is a rebellion against the protected, corporate, manufactured superstar.

[Edited on 2-27-2018 by CCharger]





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posted on 2-27-2018 at 04:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
First, I think chickenshit heel is played out. My own preference, I'm sure, but I find it refreshing that Alexa found her confidence and looks and acts like a legit champion. Also - last night on RAW was a prime example - she gets beat up but then WALLOPS her opponent one time with a punch or DDT kind of move. Five feet of fury? I think that's a great name because she takes a lickin' (heh) then drops her opponent out of nowhere. I consider that her "thing" more than being chickenshit per say. She's a body builder, so I can believe she's dynamite.

Conventional booking be damned! Just because you saw it once doesn't mean it has to be the same every time. I find it acceptable that Alexa has been built up at the expense of the faces over the last year, knowing that Asuka was on her way. She's the new standard and the payoff will be great. The likes of Sasha, Bayley, etc. have had their day in the sun and will again. Especially if Bayley and Sasha feud and the winner gets Asuka. I'm actually excited for this.

And again, if she's going to defend against Asuka, that match buildup could be killer based on both of their recent performances. I fully expect Alexa to lose at 'Mania, but I might be more interested in the potential of that match than Lesnar/Reigns.

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williamssl
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 04:15 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
All foreigners need to do the “I’m a foreigner / USA patooey” schtick. Sure, we hate because it’s overused But they need to do it because foreign heels.





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posted on 2-27-2018 at 06:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Not really sure how Braun is any more relatable than Roman if the logic is that fans won't get behind somebody that's not like them.




Braun is big, but not everything's been handed to him. Remember he was a Rosebud. Reigns never had to catch jobbers sucking on lollipops.

Also, Braun has the face of one of those 35 year-olds who may or may not be virgins, so there's more to relate to.

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royberto
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 07:44 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
The problem with Roman was Vince and HHH. They looked at the guy and immediately saw dollar signs, and immediately gave him a forced, artificial push. The fans recognized this orchestrated bullshit and pushed back. Daniel Bryan's simultaneous organic groundswell only highlighted these shenanigans. Roman's immature, douchey responses to the negative reaction only heightened things.

When fans boo Roman, they aren't booing Roman. They are booing Vince's notion that the fans have to like whoever he wants them to like. It is a rebellion against the protected, corporate, manufactured superstar.

[Edited on 2-27-2018 by CCharger]
But the thing is they are giving Bliss THE EXACT SAME PUSH. People bitched because he never lost and was never made to look weak at any point. Alexa is being booked the exact same way, yet people are now blindly defending it as good booking. If it is shitty booking when done for Roman, then it is shitty booking for Bliss.

Now take a look at Stephaine McMahon. People constantly bitch about the fact that she never gets comeuppance for anything she does. Well, Bliss gets that exact same booking and people defend it. So, why is it bad for Stephanie to never get comeuppance, but is perfectly acceptable for Bliss? IF it is bad for one, it is bad for the other.

YOu can also say she is booked exactly like Cena because she never loses and has buried multiple female talents. Once again, people bitched about Cena being booked that way, but blindly defend Bliss being booked that way.

quote:
Originally posted by Punk Munkee
First, I think chickenshit heel is played out. My own preference, I'm sure, but I find it refreshing that Alexa found her confidence and looks and acts like a legit champion. Also - last night on RAW was a prime example - she gets beat up but then WALLOPS her opponent one time with a punch or DDT kind of move. Five feet of fury? I think that's a great name because she takes a lickin' (heh) then drops her opponent out of nowhere. I consider that her "thing" more than being chickenshit per say. She's a body builder, so I can believe she's dynamite.
Which is the exact same booking that people shit on Roman and Cena for. The hypocrisy is mind boggling here.


[Edited on 2-27-2018 by royberto]

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williamssl
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 07:48 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm pretty sure she's going to lose at WM. I would bet $ on it. Seems like you would think that's a very safe bet to make since there is no reason to believe she would ever lose.

Has there ever actually been financial wagering on this site, where people got tired of the 'logic' and just said 'put your money where your mouth is'?





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royberto
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 07:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
I'm pretty sure she's going to lose at WM. I would bet $ on it. Seems like you would think that's a very safe bet to make since there is no reason to believe she would ever lose.

Has there ever actually been financial wagering on this site, where people got tired of the 'logic' and just said 'put your money where your mouth is'?
No, it isn't a safe bet. Why?



That's why. Bliss is his chosen one. I guarantee you he is having orgasmic thoughts of Alexa beating Auska cleanly at Wrestlemania. Remember, this is the same clown who killed Becky's title push because, in his mind, she doesn't speak good English and Becky is fluent. Auska can barely speak it at all. You can bet your bottom dollar he absolutely hates Auska's push. Then add to that his mind dancing at the thought of Alexa bragging how she ended the streak? Yeah, I ain't betting a damn thing on Alexa losing simply because of this buck toothed clown.

The only possible way she loses the title is if Nia is shoehorned into the match and eats the fall. There is no way in hell this clown will ever allow his chosen one to get destroyed and eat a pinfall against Auska. Just like her brother Roman, Alexa Reigns always has to look strong.

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williamssl
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 08:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Wait what?

I say I believe and am willing to bet on Alexa losing at WM.

I think you're saying that Alexa will not lose at WM because reasons.

I believe we are therefore on opposite sides of the "what's going to happen to Alexa at WM" equation.


Am I wrong?





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DKBroiler
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posted on 2-27-2018 at 09:01 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Wait what?

I say I believe and am willing to bet on Alexa losing at WM.

I think you're saying that Alexa will not lose at WM because reasons.

I believe we are therefore on opposite sides of the "what's going to happen to Alexa at WM" equation.


Am I wrong?


Somebody say gambling? I’m down.

Now fetch me my hookers!





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