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Author: Subject: 2018 Mass Shooting Thread of Suck
CCharger
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 02:12 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
2018 Mass Shooting Thread of Suck

Another school shooting. This time Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, FL. - an upper class suburb of Fort Lauderdale.

17 are confirmed dead with two in critical condition. It is the third worst school shooting in American history, and the worst shooting at a high school ever.

The suspect was identified as 19 year old Nicolas Cruz. He was a former student who reportedly had been expelled earlier due to threatening behavior. His social media indicates that he was obsessed with guns. He is also pictured wearing a MAGA hat and calling Muslims "sand durkas".

He was apprehended alive and taken to a local hospital for minor injuries.

ETA: Moved from 2017 thread.





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anglefan85
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 02:28 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Its pretty sad that I look at this and I already know how this will be treated, as cynical as it may appear.

Thoughts and prayers will be offered, bickering will occur on both sides, and nothing of substance will happen. Just like every other time. If having a bunch of first-graders being mowed down in cold blood 11 days before Christmas did nothing, if seeing parents having to bury their children during the holidays did nothing, this will be no different. And we shouldn't kid ourselves otherwise.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 02:46 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Here's where the incoming thoughts & prayers belong:


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bopol
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 02:58 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
You know, I was thinking earlier this week we were due for a mass shooting. Every two months now. The new normal.

Thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and prayers.

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janerd75
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 03:52 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Right before I became a teacher my contractor buddy and I replaced and rebuilt a large section of the concrete walkway at that school. The guy running the concrete truck to fill it was my best friend's dad I've known since middle school. I submitted my resume to work at the middle school next door and have worked at the elementary school down the street. I dated a chick that attended there many years ago. Today I had to wait to hear if my best friend's nephew, who I've spent time with before, was still alive because they hadn't heard from him long after the shooting stopped. South Florida classrooms, especially the Broward County ones, pretty much all look like the ones where the news showed video of the shooting. The style of dress the kids were wearing because of the February heat, the way they carried themselves...all SoFla fingerprints. So this one was pretty vivid to say the least. Especially when I was on the interstate headed to a doctor's appointment for my mom at the exact time a shit ton of police vehicles start heading towards the school. Once I saw it was an multiple agency response I knew something had just gone down somewhere.

Who knows how this could have been prevented. Ban guns? More mental health care? Someone pulling a Byron Hadley-on-Boggs in Shawshank on the fucker before he had the chance to go full demonic? Who knows other than it will be endlessly debated and argued about and probably fuck all will be done to fix it. And an R or D in front of a President's name seems to do fuck all either since administrations come and go and this shit still happens.

I had a poor impulse control kid in class once that set off all my alarm bells for this kind of behavior. Asked others in class, including me, very pointed questions about our sex lives. At one point he casually blurted out that he was going to shoot everybody up and I couldn't call security fast enough. I did precisely what I was legally required to do in matters like that and wrote him up and notified the principal and his administrator. As soon as I hit "send" his admin couldn't have burst through my classroom door fast enough. He was quite frantic and aggressive in telling me that I needed to rescind the email to the principal and from the system itself. It was some type of intra-school system that wasn't exactly like regular mail so you could actually take back a message you sent if the recipient hadn't opened it yet.

Regardless, this shitbird admin had vouched for this kid and had him on some normalization/re-integration track at the school because he was eligible somehow to do so after doing his time at the correctional school he went to after stabbing a kid. Go ahead and read that sentence again. In short, the admin didn't want his record sullied if the kid went batshit. Another time a saw a kid, who eerily looked a lot like the shooter, closed fist punch a girl in the face unprovoked in a class I was subbing in before bolting out the door. He got suspended but was back the next week. I relayed this story to other teachers and they all near universally said, "Oh, yeah, that fucking kid" before telling similar stories of their own.

I'll be quite frank here since I'm long since out of doing the school thing. You might find fault with my reasoning and that's fine. But there were several long and agonizing moments where I thought it would be appropriate to bring my own concealed weapon to school when I was teaching for this these very reasons. Certainly, were I to be discovered with a handgun I probably be writing this to you from the jail I'd still be under had I done that. But seeing what I've seen about how well schools are NOT protected from this type of horror always always always gave me the heebie jeebies about what I have to do should that shit ever go down. And believe you me, I encountered some sinister assholes in my time that would make you reconsider whether or not I was justified in doing so. And no, I never had delusions of being a Clint Eastwood type or yelling "Yippie-Kai-Ay" motherfucker after gunning the bad guy down to much fanfare from the kids with a key to the city ceremony soon to follow. Again, these were kids that I was charged with the duty of keeping safe from harm so the idea of what to do in an active shooter situation did cross my mind a time or two. And no, I never ever did carry on campus.

Bad kids, bad parents, bad admins, bad gun laws, poor mental health care, gun free zones, people not reading the tea leaves and acting when all the signs pointed towards the perp being a demented fuckhead...it's more of a shitshow than you'd imagine I guess. I'm not a thoughts and prayers kinda guy because I'm not telepathic and those things won't do fuck all for the bereaved at this point. All I would ask is that if you have them you hug your kids tight and let them know you love them because it is one crazy world they're stepping out in to.

More info on the dickless wonder. http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/breaking-instagram-account-fl-shooter-nicholas-cruz/





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anglefan85
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 03:54 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not even every 2 months, this is the 18th one this year, including those where an attempt was made and stopped in time. Its February. It averages out to a school shooting or attempted school shooting every 2.5 days.





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Count Zero
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 04:56 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I don't have too much to add, unfortuately, but thoughts & prayers. Don't worry, that's work-safe and suits the tone of the discussion.
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anglefan85
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 03:52 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
And of course, the argument online has already gone to people saying we need to arm teachers.

Giving a teacher a gun, ammo, gun training and most likely hazard pay. Where do they think that money will have to come from? A lot of teachers have to buy their own books and school supplies because the schools can't afford them.

And to bring it back to Columbine, there were two armed guards there at the time. one was a guard who was a 15-year police veteran and the other was actually a cop who happened to be within earshot of the gunfire. Probably the two best people you'd want in the scene, and the reality of the situation meant neither could do more than irritate one of the shooters without putting further innocent lives at risk.

[Edited on 2-15-2018 by anglefan85]





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CCharger
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 03:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I just found out that I know the football coach who was shot shielding students from gun fire.

Really, really friendly guy who really loved that school.





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anglefan85
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 03:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I just found out that I know the football coach who was shot shielding students from gun fire.

Really, really friendly guy who really loved that school.


Dude....I'm sorry, man.

That guy is a hero.





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CCharger
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 04:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anglefan85
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I just found out that I know the football coach who was shot shielding students from gun fire.

Really, really friendly guy who really loved that school.


Dude....I'm sorry, man.

That guy is a hero.

Thanks, bro.. There's really not much to say. The images and stories speak for themselves.

But it takes something like this hitting so close to home to make you really think. It really can happen anywhere to anyone at any time.

Like janerd, I interviewed at that school too. I know it well. It's not too much of a stretch to think that I could have been there, in that building, when that all went down.

Complete mind fuck...





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Thom
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 04:15 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
...

I'll be quite frank here since I'm long since out of doing the school thing. You might find fault with my reasoning and that's fine. But there were several long and agonizing moments where I thought it would be appropriate to bring my own concealed weapon to school when I was teaching for this these very reasons. Certainly, were I to be discovered with a handgun I probably be writing this to you from the jail I'd still be under had I done that. But seeing what I've seen about how well schools are NOT protected from this type of horror always always always gave me the heebie jeebies about what I have to do should that shit ever go down. And believe you me, I encountered some sinister assholes in my time that would make you reconsider whether or not I was justified in doing so. And no, I never had delusions of being a Clint Eastwood type or yelling "Yippie-Kai-Ay" motherfucker after gunning the bad guy down to much fanfare from the kids with a key to the city ceremony soon to follow. Again, these were kids that I was charged with the duty of keeping safe from harm so the idea of what to do in an active shooter situation did cross my mind a time or two. And no, I never ever did carry on campus.

...



My HS Bio teacher got fired because he had a gun in his car on campus back in the 90s, well after I had graduated. I get it, especially since it wasn't under his complete control at all times. My HS wasn't particularly dangerous, but that's likely how the vast majority of schools where this happens think. It's times like this that I'm somewhat glad I ended up not going into teaching, like I originally planned. I don't think I could deal with it.

"Thoughts and Prayers" is really a mixed bag, for me. I mean, yeah - it's good to offer those to the victims and their families - even the families of the shooter(s), as they have a shitstorm to deal with. But something needs to be done - or at least tried - in order to help prevent these things from happening again. It can't be just "thoughts and prayers."

Tighter gun control isn't the only answer, but it's part of the answer, IMO. Additionally, while we can't always see it, in cases of what janerd described above - and much like some of the training I go through at work - if you see/hear something, report it. It may be nothing, but I'd rather someone report some out-of-context remark I made so I get asked about it, rather than keeping his/her mouth shut when someone else something and then ends up acting on it. I don't have all the answers. I just want those in power - those that can do something about it - to do something.

I don't know - I'm kinda rambling. Like anglefan, I'm basically frustrated by the fact that jack shit is gonna happen other than both "sides" pointing fingers and not actually talking about what they/we can do help prevent this. Sure, you're not going to completely stop these, but fuck - make it so it we (as a society aren't constantly dealing with this shit.





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Thom
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 04:16 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I just found out that I know the football coach who was shot shielding students from gun fire.

Really, really friendly guy who really loved that school.


Fuck. Sorry to hear it, man.





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TownOfDalem
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 06:01 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I just can't get passed the part where nothing is going to happen as a result of this. I'm a crazy gun hating liberal, but I recognize I'm on the extreme side of the gun control debate.

If you don't think guns are the problem, then what is the problem? Mental health you say? Okay fine. What is your plan for addressing mental health then? Attempting to cut health care doesn't seem like a great start on that front.

Seems to me it's not unreasonable to expect politicians to be working towards solutions for the frequent mass murder of children. It's not a new problem.





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Matte
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 06:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I know firsthand that a lot of people's instant reaction to hearing about one of these shootings or seeing it on the news isn't "what a tragedy, how terrible" but is instead "there they go pushing gun control again." I've seen it happen.





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 07:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I just found out that I know the football coach who was shot shielding students from gun fire.

Really, really friendly guy who really loved that school.


As other's have said, that just sucks.

Why anyone can legally obtain an AR-15 is beyond me.

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CCharger
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 07:09 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I just can't get passed the part where nothing is going to happen as a result of this. I'm a crazy gun hating liberal, but I recognize I'm on the extreme side of the gun control debate.

If you don't think guns are the problem, then what is the problem? Mental health you say? Okay fine. What is your plan for addressing mental health then? Attempting to cut health care doesn't seem like a great start on that front.

Seems to me it's not unreasonable to expect politicians to be working towards solutions for the frequent mass murder of children. It's not a new problem.


This is the most reasonable list of things I've seen on the internet so far:

quote:
Originally posted by OOMike

Here are my suggestions:
1) update the ATF Center in West Virginia that tracks guns. A law from 1986(?) denies them the ability to computerize their records, so there are people in a building flipping through pages in boxes or on microfiche looking for the serial numbers on those guns in Vegas to see where they were bought from. Something in 2017 that should take about ten minutes for all the guns will take a few days.
2) Universal background checks/three day waiting period
3) Mental Illness/domestic violence/No Fly List history denies you the right to own a gun



I'd add that anyone wanting to purchase an assault rifle needs to apply first and then go through a rigorous background check/mental health assessment before being allowed to purchase one.

And FFS, ban bump stocks outright.

This is a good, reasonable approach that should make things better while also not going all BAN GUNZ.





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"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

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anglefan85
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 07:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Now news is coming out that the shooter was recruited and trained by some white nationalist group called the Republic of Florida with the intent of creating a white ethnostate. This shit is not getting any better.

EDIT: That's a nice list that Mike made. I wish I could believe that it would be implemented, but those would be good steps to take.

[Edited on 2-15-2018 by anglefan85]





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-15-2018 at 10:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If this is the third or fourth loser white/biracial kid to become a mass shooter (since Eliot Rogers) then it's clear evidence that they're being either goaded on by the likes of 4Chan or actively radicalized by even worse elements on the internet. They've clearly reached a level of lethality that isn't much different from any loser Muslim kid that's gotten radicalized over the internet by ISIS. "Alt" is eventually going to have to be seen as criminal and terrorist and dealt with appropriately. It's not going to happen under Trump but there's no way to deny anymore that this is a far more dangerous situation than anyone realized, and it's no longer just a bunch of freaks goofing around with tasteless shock humour and a stupid frog mascot.
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Cherokee Jack
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posted on 2-16-2018 at 03:23 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
""Thoughts and Prayers" is really a mixed bag, for me. I mean, yeah - it's good to offer those to the victims and their families - even the families of the shooter(s), as they have a shitstorm to deal with. But something needs to be done - or at least tried - in order to help prevent these things from happening again. It can't be just "thoughts and prayers."
Right, and the reason that "thoughts and prayers" has become a subject of mockery is just because that is all that's ever really offered up from the people in a position to try and do something about this. I agree that it's good and appropriate to send condolences and such, but at a certain point they become worthless when they're not accompanied by action.

Rick Scott was on Fox News (of course) this morning and when he was asked if any ideas had been suggested or proposed to him on how to stop things like this from happening and his response amounted to "nope!" Motherfucker just had 50 people get shot in a nightclub in his state what, two years ago? And he wants to go on record saying that no one has ever brought suggestions to him on how to curb gun violence? He's either lying or he genuinely does not care and does not want to make any effort to do anything about it.

"Malice or incompetence?" is a question that I find myself asking...myself about people on a variety of topics, but when it comes to this subject and you compound the thoughts and prayers nonsense with the inaction, and then the additional shit like refusing to allow computerization of records, forbidding the CDC from researching gun violence, etc and the answer is clear. These are evil motherfuckers who don't want anything to be done and are absolutely willing to abide these tragedies as long as that sweet sweet NRA money keeps pouring in.





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Count Zero
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posted on 2-16-2018 at 10:01 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Is it time to disband the NRA? It seems to be the biggest obstacle in the way of things. Let's see what happens if people start referring to it as a "sponsor of homeland terrorism". Spin can be used by all parties, and it's time to spin this motherfucker up.
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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-17-2018 at 01:33 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Doubt it's that easy because technically the NRA hasn't done anything illegal or acted as a physical accomplice in any of the shootings. Some of the op-eds were going on about the Dems in 2018 putting everything they have into defeating the GOP pols who take the most money from the NRA and other pro-gun lobbies, with the idea being that if they take down several of them that will open the floodgates for a mass defeat of them in 2020. Sounds good on paper but probably much harder in real life given the resources the GOP & NRA have combined together. That red state empire that's been built up since Reagan is strong and deeply entrenched in local politics everywhere and won't be any sort of pushover whatsoever. I doubt the Dems have the guts either to send out flyers in the mail or put up billboards with graphic uncensored photos of shooting victims to put across viscerally the point that this is what happens when a lunatic or criminal goes active with a firearm.
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Count Zero
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posted on 2-17-2018 at 04:36 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I know it's not "easy". But if people are going to start slapping the "State/National/Whatever Sponsor Of Terrorism" label on things, and in some cases with not a whit of proof or evidence, why not slap it onto the organization that promotes gun ownership above all things and despite the consequences of their beliefs?

That sounds "extremist" and "fanatical" to me, and those are the type of organizations we're trying to dismantle. Extremism is the problem, and in this case it's "Gun-Extremists" promoting their lifestyle-choices above all others, irrespective of the impact on the public good.

Yes, I realize this is a bit whimsical and hard-to-take-seriously, but the underlying point I'm making is: Let's use the tactics of "The Gun People" against them. Let's paint -them- as the problem-extremists, because they're the ones stumping for guns to remain so wildly available. They cling to the Whichever Amendment To Bear Arms like it's a religious commandment from the Founding God/Fathers of America. So if we put facts aside (and many people from the NRA like to do that when they're making their arguments) and sling names at them, it might have the same sort of impact that their fact-ignoring & name-calling has, only in the RIGHT direction for once.

All I can say for sure is: What's been tried so far hasn't done a lot of good. What they've been doing has helped us get into this mess. Let's see if we can undo what they've done by using their own tactics against them.

[Edited on 2-17-2018 by Count Zero]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 2-17-2018 at 05:28 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I was previously hoping for some kind of generation change to start moving the US away from the toxic radicalism of the baby boomers that's wrecked so much of American society, and it would by default include finally stopping some of the insanity over the availability of guns for lunatics. I thought this for a while considering how many Gen X and Millenials supported Obama and then Bernie Sanders, that there was finally going to be a break with the rancid politics that existed from the 1960's thru to the mid-00's. Then Trump got elected and the Nazis started marching again, with the significant support and participation of new radical extremists my age and younger who are behaving as turd-like (if not worse, judging by the fuckwits at places like 4Chan, Reddit, Breitbart, and all those other extremist shithole sites) than any angry or crazy baby boomer that ever existed. So that hope is dashed too.

Anyone who's still sane might just have to acknowledge that the ground, water, and air of the American social and cultural environment are now simply too irreparably toxic to produce any positive social outcomes anymore. Rancor, demonization, dehumanization, and violent disintegration are far more likely a result than is any return to a mostly peaceful and civil society. Like King Theodon depressingly said in The Two Towers, what are normal people of good will to do in the face of such reckless hatred?

[Edited on 2/17/2018 by Paddlefoot]

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OOMike
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Mood: same ol same ol

posted on 2-19-2018 at 01:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
I was previously hoping for some kind of generation change to start moving the US away from the toxic radicalism of the baby boomers that's wrecked so much of American society, and it would by default include finally stopping some of the insanity over the availability of guns for lunatics. I thought this for a while considering how many Gen X and Millenials supported Obama and then Bernie Sanders, that there was finally going to be a break with the rancid politics that existed from the 1960's thru to the mid-00's. Then Trump got elected and the Nazis started marching again, with the significant support and participation of new radical extremists my age and younger who are behaving as turd-like (if not worse, judging by the fuckwits at places like 4Chan, Reddit, Breitbart, and all those other extremist shithole sites) than any angry or crazy baby boomer that ever existed. So that hope is dashed too.




I disagree Pad, I have seen and heard my sons friends talking and they have given me hope. No granted there are a couple that have taken the Trump Kool-Aid and are going along goose stepping, but there are also several that have families that are big Trump supporters/Racist/homophobes that are openly rebelling against that way of thinking. I think that generation of Millennials will do better than we did in making this world a better place.

ETA: Also I have not seen any go the other way, where their families are liberals and the kids are going the conservative route.

[Edited on 2-19-2018 by OOMike]





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic Tryon Edwards

Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.

The only OO columnist that has never written a column.

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