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Flash
The Immortal One






Posts 4552
Registered 4-22-2005
Location Ontario, Canada
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posted on 1-18-2018 at 05:42 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
On a unrelated post-

We're mostly men here, and I would hope this is a safe space where stuff like context and benefit of the doubt are given here... how does everyone feel about this current climate... more importantly has anyone here kind of made a mental list of their own behaviours and thought about them again... reached out to make amends, flogged yourself out back?

I'm not talking about a rapist or so lurking among us, but I would imagine even in just being a human being we are bound to have crashed into one another at some point or another... I know I have, and more importantly I've thought about stuff from a new perspective... now when I write that I mean I've given thought to stuff like having been out on a date once and suggested that we make plans to go see a movie that was playing 20 minutes up the road... no big deal in my mind, but as she didn't know me (it was a dating website meeting) she didn't feel comfortable going out of town with me... I apologized, said of course I never thought of it that way being a man... and I on some level did completely understand, but there was also a maybe selfish part of me that was a touch offended.... because I KNOW I'M A GOOD GUY and would NEVER do anything untoward, so why didn't she? I have since rethought not even my actions (I think I acted rightly in accepting her explanation) but my thoughts... I would like to think I'm a better person for that now.

On my worst scale I still beat myself up because when I was maybe 10 I "accidentally" brushed up against a female friends developing breasts... part of me, and my psychologist, say that "yeah... you were ten, ten year olds do dumb stuff", but the currently climate has me thinking OMG I'm terrible, how can I track this person down from nearly 30 years ago and apologize... I did actually write a few words to a close friend from university days whose bra I snapped a few times at a party one night... not in a sexual way, but because I thought it would be funny and a joke to ACT LIKE some jock douchebag because that was probably the furthest thing from what I'm actually like... it doesn't matter in my mind that I've genuinely rescued this same friend from full on forceful touching by guys in bars... the current climate has rightfully or wrongly made me equate my behaviour as being on the same level as men who thrust their crotches out as women try to walk by so they have to brush up against their junk (funny side note, my autocorrect keeps wanting to change crotches to crutches, which just makes the story bizarre).

I can't remember if I have any other "sins" to my name... an I'm not asking anyone else to share; just curious about how we as men are taking stock of our own lives... are the bad rapists so far off the spectrum of our own behaviour that we don't equate what they do with how we have conducted ourselves... have others taken stock and said in hindsight I've learned something new... that maybe that age old guys should go in for a kiss bit is wrong, or hell... maybe that is right, you just take no as no if that's the response but there's nothing wrong with the trying... ugh... I feel like I'm lost down a rabbit hole sometimes where I'm torn between over analyzing my own life and actions because I think that's the right thing to do, but I also feel like I'm caught up in the current climate and that I shouldn't feel bad for being a man.... Then I also think why the hell did I just write the above... don't hit "post reply" everyone will think your horrible all while simultaneously thinking I'm over reacting....

Anyone else? Is this thing on?.... hellooooooo?

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OOMike
The Great One






Posts 3941
Registered 1-3-2002
Location Columbus, OH
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Mood: same ol same ol

posted on 1-18-2018 at 02:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
On a unrelated post-

We're mostly men here, and I would hope this is a safe space where stuff like context and benefit of the doubt are given here... how does everyone feel about this current climate... more importantly has anyone here kind of made a mental list of their own behaviours and thought about them again... reached out to make amends, flogged yourself out back?



Funny you should ask, when all the different accusations of lewd behavior started coming out, I did try to think back to my actions over the years. I never whipped my dick out and masturbated in front of a woman, so that was an easy one to throw out. But I was thinking about all the interactions I had with different women, I don't remember doing anything improper, but I wonder if they remember things differently.

I have done/said things that made me uncomfortable in situations, but yes, I did try to reflect and think about anything I might have done and wondered... But I haven't reached out to any the women, partially because I lost touch with them all, partially because I don't want to hear that I was an asshole.





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic – Tryon Edwards

Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.

The only OO columnist that has never written a column.

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Stone Cold Steve Autism
I did eat all the macaroni. I don't know how he knows.






Posts 2287
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posted on 1-18-2018 at 08:15 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
It's like watching the Stalinists wipe out the Old Bolsheviks during the purges & show trials in pre-WW2 Russia all over again. No mass murders of course by the SJW's, just figurative annihilations of the "errant" individuals who offended the new orthodoxy.

To be fair, I don't think "don't rape people, touch them without consent or put them in a position to feel they are nonconsensually being physically or emotionally exploited for your gratification" is a new orthodoxy. It just feels new because more people than a handful of lefty male activists and a sea of women victims are actually taking it seriously.

Barging into someone's private digital space and saying unwelcome things to them might be a new medium, but I doubt that even twenty years ago anyone would have said it was "ok" to box a random woman out of a party and against a wall and start telling her in graphic detail how you want to use her body. That's more or less how most online harassment goes.

And I think the show trial analogy breaks down when you add the fact that none of the men listed have been beaten or put it prison or had their wealth stripped from them by any government or private entity. Most if not all are still employed in the jobs they had when the list came out, including some of the ones with really severe accusations against them. Their archives still exist. The record of their works hasn't been erased from society.

If those guys represent anything, it's not new victims of a new mania but rather just how powerful the status quo always is. It turns out that men's whisper networks of "difficult" women (which pathologize the effects of male-created trauma on these women by traumatizing a woman psychologically and then saying, "Don't hire her, she's crazy," even though the man in question MADE her "crazy") can keep women out of careers, while women's whisper networks of horrifying accusations against them can't even budge men from theirs.

Seems the right thing to do would be to make Moira Donegan pay through the nose via a slander/libel charge and not let her slide with some kind of "hey, I'm just providing a platform for anonymous victims" dodge.
Moira Donegan hasn't done anything wrong. She created a private list not intended for publication. That was kinda dumb, and what happened to it sucks, but it's not wrong. It wasn't billed as sourced, verified and authoritative. Most of its content was not written by her. And access to the list and ability to alter it got out of her control. Little to none of that is actionable. (The only person worth suing would be whomever contributed an individual entry, which could have been done with burner accounts and would probably not be discoverable without suing Google.) Lastly, I don't think anyone sees much value in suing a twentysomething freelancer paying New York rent out of existence.

Also, not for nothing, after having JUST settled a lawsuit brought against me by a right-winger for what I (and every lawyer I talked to) believed to be savings-draining retributive purposes, I can't endorse that against anyone anywhere near a similar position.


Originally posted by BBMN
Wait. Did he lose his job because of this?

No.

[Edited on 1-18-2018 by Stone Cold Steve Autism]

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bigfatgoalie
American Dream






Posts 7723
Registered 1-16-2002
Location Stratusphere
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Mood: Stratusfied

posted on 1-27-2018 at 08:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
One thing I find odd about these situations...people always chime in with "he was always nice" or "yeah I could see him doing that." Type of comments. I've had many interactions on these boards with SCSA, but none of those mean anything. How he acted towards others is separate. And how he acted, vs how others felt or interpreted his actions are also separate.

The due process thing is also odd. Because there are some who think "guilty" no matter what, and there are others who scream that due process has been ignored. Often though people leap to one of the two extremes without considering all the information provided.

In Ontario, the leader of the Progressive Conservatives Patrick Brown, stepped down after accusations of sexual misconduct. Almost immediately social media and comment sections on places like CBC.ca were filled up with the two extremes I mentioned above. One thing that seemed lost was why/how things come out. Multiple news outlets were conducting investigations on Brown. And when provided information, his staf, the people who work closest to him, resigned in mass. Given the information, siding on the "he's being falsely ruined" side seems a bit wrong. While due process is still ongoing, suggesting that there has been no vetting of information is entirely incorrect.

In SCSA's case, like most cases, I tend to think like this: Believe the victim. Because in the best case scenario, they feel like something was wrong. This doesn't mean that the accused is guilty, but in the best case scenario something was taken out of context, or the accused could have said/did things in a better manner. So in the case of SCSA, I believe that SCSA acted or said things that were not taken as intended. Or as noted previously, the best case scenario. I'd like to think most people given the vague accusations, no additional fall out, and SCSA's post here on the topic would conclude the same thing.

I'd also like to say....how the hell did nobody post "I never liked the guy anyway" here? Are all of are traditions gone?

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Columbo
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1011
Registered 11-2-2004
Location @columbo527
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Mood: GodDamnWOOO

posted on 1-27-2018 at 09:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie

I'd also like to say....how the hell did nobody post "I never liked the guy anyway" here? Are all of are traditions gone?


Mabey?





"The North Cafeteria, named after Admiral William North, is located in the western portion of East Hall, gateway to the western half of North Hall, which is named, not after William North, but for its position above the South Wall. It is the most contested and confusing battlefield on Greendale’s campus, next to the English Memorial Spanish Center, named after English Memorial, a Portuguese sailor that discovered Greendale while looking for a fountain that cured syphilis."

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Count Zero
The Great One






Posts 3235
Registered 1-29-2013
Location Canada East
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Mood: Can't Even

posted on 1-28-2018 at 05:36 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Columbo
quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie

I'd also like to say....how the hell did nobody post "I never liked the guy anyway" here? Are all of are traditions gone?


Mabey?


BANK ON IT~!

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salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be






Posts 12618
Registered 6-25-2002
Location Sunny Seattle, WA
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Mood: FICKLE!

posted on 1-28-2018 at 09:37 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote

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