The Online Onslaught Forums


By contributing to Online Onslaught, you'll help make sure we're around for years to come. Toss us as little as a few bucks, or as much as your generosity allows. Thanks!

Last active: Never Not logged in [Login ]

Printable Version |
Subscribe | Add to Favorites
<<  1    2  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: GOP Tax Plan
CCharger
The Immortal One






Posts 4990
Registered 7-21-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sick of hokey shit

posted on 12-21-2017 at 04:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
GOP Tax Plan

Yesterday, the GOP-controlled Congress passed the tax cut that they had desired so much. President Trump will most assuredly sign it. '

It appears on it's surface to be a pretty blatant attempt to move massive amounts of wealth back into the hands of the rich and super-rich while offering the middle class and poor virtually nothing by comparison. Independent groups have said that this loss of tax revenue could blow a 1 to 2 TRILLION dollar hole in the deficit which Paul Ryan says will have to be made up by cuts in Medicare, Medicaid and other "entitlements".

It's also very unpopular with various polls putting the support for the bill at just around 35%.

This is all being done because of a lingering belief in the now debunked economic philosophy of supply-side or "trickle down" economics.

Now, clearly my opinion is that this tax bill is bad at best and immoral at worst. But, I'm curious to see what you guys think.





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
bopol
Showstopper






Posts 981
Registered 1-18-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 12-21-2017 at 04:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I can't figure out how it will only raise the deficit $1-$2T given the extent of the cuts.

Honestly, it isn't playing well because most of the cuts are going to the rich and I think most people now believe that trickle down is BS and all these cuts do is make the rich richer and does not help the economy or generate larger tax revenues. It also pokes holes in the Republicans are fiscally conservative and finally, most people don't believe that anymore.

So, I think this will continue to energize the Democratic base while not exciting the Republican base. The only benefit for the Republicans is that they will get the nice donations to say Democrats are evil, which may not be enough to get Republicans to show up at the mid-terms.

Frankly, it just is more evidence that the Republicans on a national level can't govern.





I only signed up so I can read the forum.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Cherokee Jack
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1935
Registered 2-24-2009
Location New Orleans, LA
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 12-21-2017 at 06:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Pretty accurate sum-up. The wealthiest Americans get enormous handouts (don’t have the numbers handy, but remember reading an analysis that estimated that something like 80% of the total benefits would go to the top 1%, with 60% going to the top 0.1%), while the rest of us get very small cuts that for many will become increases after a couple of years.

Meanwhile they can’t (won’t) fund CHIP, eliminated the mechanism that makes the ACA work, and have already come right out and said that their next targets will be Medicare/Medicaid/social security if/when (spoiler alert: when) this blows up the deficit.

But hey, maybe this’ll be the time trickle-down actually works. /sarcasm

Also, it’s fun how they’ve timed it so that the lower-end will see their increases after the midterms, and much like the Bush tax cuts, the whole package is set to expire at a point where they’re probably presuming Democrats will be back in power. So look forward to the GOP crying “class warfare” again in the not-too-distant future.





I'm Cherokee Jack!

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
bopol
Showstopper






Posts 981
Registered 1-18-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 12-21-2017 at 07:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
But Jack, I think the whole 'expires when Dems are in charge' is a story that has worn thin. Republicans haven't been fiscally conservative for the last 40 years and now people are getting it. I think the whole class warfare thing is also getting out of people's minds.

I figure most people are pretty slow in getting things, but millennials are deciding right now that Republicans are full of shit. In ten years, they'll be in their thirties. In the meantime, older fucks like me (I'm 47) and my elders are the ones raised on that shit will start hitting SS and Medicare age and start bellyaching that we paid into it our whole lives. Now, I've already given up on Republicans, but most of my old fuck whitey friends haven't. Fuck with their retirement and they will though.

It's a bomb and I fear that the Republicans will have to blow this up to regain power in the future (talking like in the late 20s), which may make them a reasonable party again (or alternatively and even possible now, something steps up in their place).





I only signed up so I can read the forum.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni






Posts 10529
Registered 1-19-2008
Location Mordor of the soul
Member Is Online

Mood: ShitBird McShitHeel

posted on 12-22-2017 at 06:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It would be a massive error to assume that they care at all in the slightest as to whether or not the math works out. These are creatures that happily took away the usual deductions for teachers who pay out of pocket for school supplies because the state is too busy playing Austerity Hero to fund education properly. Do you really think that anyone who would do something like gives a shit about a trillion-dollar "rounding error" when these cuts result in the collapse of the federal system of government?





"Let's go give these Canuckleheads a good ol red-white-and-blue fist-fucking!" - Janerd75

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
anglefan85
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1582
Registered 12-6-2005
Location Long Island, New York
Member Is Offline

Mood: Relaxed

posted on 12-22-2017 at 05:28 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not to mention the fact that this entire idea is based upon the idea that those corporations will will use that money and invest it back into the economy, thus creating more jobs and higher wages.

However, there are no incentives in the bill to make them want to hire or retrain workers. There are instead incentives that favor investing in automated workers, which will obviously result in a loss of American jobs.

On the negative side, this is gonna absolutely devastate the economy. On the positive side, my prediction of a coal miner assassinating Trump might come true.





The WWE: Where no one wins, unless you like Cena, in which case you are a sad little fanboy who will never get laid, but we are happy to take your money away-Moosehead Jack

"She is an estrogen molotov cocktail. It'd be in your best interest not to piss her off."- My thoughts on Firewoman

"Kurt Angle is like a living vortex of the surreal. On the off chance he's not doing, saying or thinking crazy things, people connected to him act crazy by association, caught in the gravitational pull of his insanity."- Ringout from FAN Forums

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
CCharger
The Immortal One






Posts 4990
Registered 7-21-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sick of hokey shit

posted on 12-22-2017 at 06:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anglefan85

On the negative side, this is gonna absolutely devastate the economy. On the positive side, my prediction of a coal miner assassinating Trump might come true.

Yes. But Trump and the GOPer's will find some way to blame Obama. And of course the only way to fix that broken economy? More corporate tax cuts!

FDR is spinning in his grave.





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
BBMN
HAVES A CROOKED DICK!! !






Posts 2507
Registered 6-27-2007
Location tumblr
Member Is Offline

Mood: SJW

posted on 12-22-2017 at 07:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
But AT&T is giving out extra bonuses! Clearly trickle-down is just too far advanced of a concept for you guys to get.



All I want for Christmas is for Trump, Pence, Ryan, and McConnell to all have heart attacks. That and an Xbox One S.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
CCharger
The Immortal One






Posts 4990
Registered 7-21-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sick of hokey shit

posted on 12-22-2017 at 07:40 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
GOP: "Look, don't worry about the rich getting most of the benefits, you guys. Remember what's important...baking cakes for the gays and black guys kneeling for the national anthem."





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
bopol
Showstopper






Posts 981
Registered 1-18-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 12-23-2017 at 12:55 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
GOP: "Look, don't worry about the rich getting most of the benefits, you guys. Remember what's important...baking cakes for the gays and black guys kneeling for the national anthem."


You know, I bet there is an opportunity for someone to make a professional football league for conservatives right now.

said one crazy old nut from the Connecticut.





I only signed up so I can read the forum.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni






Posts 10529
Registered 1-19-2008
Location Mordor of the soul
Member Is Online

Mood: ShitBird McShitHeel

posted on 12-23-2017 at 01:00 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
GOP: "Look, don't worry about the rich getting most of the benefits, you guys. Remember what's important...baking cakes for the gays and black guys kneeling for the national anthem."


You know, I bet there is an opportunity for someone to make a professional football league for conservatives right now.

said one crazy old nut from the Connecticut.


Hopefully FOX Sports gets to televise the games. Ought to fit into the wheelhouse of an all-around piece of shit like Joe Buck quite well.

Think of the meta of it all when it comes to the NFL versus Trump. To a man the NFL owners are among the greediest and evilest of misanthropes anyone could ever find. Yet even they for the most part can't get along with someone as horrid as Donald Trump. Like, fuck, man.





"Let's go give these Canuckleheads a good ol red-white-and-blue fist-fucking!" - Janerd75

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Katie Vick killer
The Rowdy One






Posts 2257
Registered 8-25-2003
Location w/ Randall
Member Is Offline

Mood: Chin locked

posted on 12-25-2017 at 01:26 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So what time do you think the ghosts starting visiting Trump last night?
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
BBMN
HAVES A CROOKED DICK!! !






Posts 2507
Registered 6-27-2007
Location tumblr
Member Is Offline

Mood: SJW

posted on 1-10-2018 at 01:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Quick Questions Go!

When does the tax plan take effect?

What would be the benefits, and negatives, for a married man with two kids, and a wife that does not work, that earns roughly $55k?

One of my good good friends from forever ago voted for Trump and pretty much did so based purely on economic/tax reasoning. I haven't kept too close to this story because ultimately I just expect to become angry. My friend brought up "We'll see how much Trump's plan helps me starting with this pay period..." Wasn't sure if it would help him at all, and if it has any impact, when said impact would happen.

He seems to be thinking he will get more money on his check starting right now. He also mentioned that under Obama care he was due to have a massive increase in health plan rates and was pretty happy that it wasn't going to happen due to signing up with his employer's plan...

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
CCharger
The Immortal One






Posts 4990
Registered 7-21-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sick of hokey shit

posted on 1-10-2018 at 03:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BBMN
When does the tax plan take effect?

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-when-new-tax-plan-take-effect-2017-12

"the new tax plan will take effect on January 1, 2018. Americans won't see the change to their tax returns until spring 2019 — when they file taxes for 2018."

quote:
What would be the benefits, and negatives, for a married man with two kids, and a wife that does not work, that earns roughly $55k?

Estimated Tax Analysis
Gross income
(subject to personal rates) $55,000
Taxable Pass-Through Income + $0
Qualified plan contributions - $0
Adjusted gross income = $55,000
Standard/Itemized deductions - $24,000
Taxable income = $31,000
Tax liability before credits
(includes taxes on pass-through income) $3,339
Child tax credits - $0
Family tax credits - $1,000
Estimated tax liability = $2,339

Without knowing all the details of his income and various deductions, my best guess this guy is going to get back around $2,000.

quote:
One of my good good friends from forever ago voted for Trump and pretty much did so based purely on economic/tax reasoning. I haven't kept too close to this story because ultimately I just expect to become angry. My friend brought up "We'll see how much Trump's plan helps me starting with this pay period..." Wasn't sure if it would help him at all, and if it has any impact, when said impact would happen.

It's also important to remember and remind him that it isn't Trump's tax plan at all. Tax policy is set by Congress, not the president. So while Trump may have supported it and signed it into law, it was the GOP-led Congress who did the dirty work.

[/quote





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
DKBroiler
SpeciASSl CUMedian






Posts 3004
Registered 1-25-2008
Location One Inch Right of Philly on a Map
Member Is Offline

Mood: Old

posted on 1-10-2018 at 10:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I’m one of the few middle class people it stands to benefit (I should get a few extra grand out of it each year) but it’s still an awful plan. In roughly 4 to 6 years we’re gonna have a massive recession. And it will happen just in time for the conservatives to blame liberals who had nothing to do with it.

Best advice I can give, find a good job and keep it as long as you can. Save every penny.





Reigning, Defending, Undisputed, 0 Time Award Winner

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
CCharger
The Immortal One






Posts 4990
Registered 7-21-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sick of hokey shit

posted on 1-10-2018 at 11:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The deceit in this plan is poor and middle class people WILL see money back. $500 to $4000 in some cases. That seems like a good deal, right?

But then you see folks (and corporations) who are already filthy, stinking rich could see returns in the millions of dollars. The Waltons (of Walmart fame) could see a savings of $46 BILLION.

Essentially, they are giving MASSIVE tax cuts to millionaires and billionaires while tossing relative crumbs to the poor and working class and expecting us to be OK with it.

It is a reverse redistribution of money.





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
OOMike
The Great One






Posts 3942
Registered 1-3-2002
Location Columbus, OH
Member Is Offline

Mood: same ol same ol

posted on 1-11-2018 at 02:08 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by BBMN
When does the tax plan take effect?

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-when-new-tax-plan-take-effect-2017-12

"the new tax plan will take effect on January 1, 2018. Americans won't see the change to their tax returns until spring 2019 — when they file taxes for 2018."




I believe that you should start seeing the difference in your pay check in February.





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic – Tryon Edwards

Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.

The only OO columnist that has never written a column.

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
anglefan85
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1582
Registered 12-6-2005
Location Long Island, New York
Member Is Offline

Mood: Relaxed

posted on 1-11-2018 at 06:02 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OOMike
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by BBMN
When does the tax plan take effect?

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-when-new-tax-plan-take-effect-2017-12

"the new tax plan will take effect on January 1, 2018. Americans won't see the change to their tax returns until spring 2019 — when they file taxes for 2018."




I believe that you should start seeing the difference in your pay check in February.


I know a guy that works in clinical psychology who got his first paycheck in direct deposit today. He found out that he's set to make $200 less per paycheck.





The WWE: Where no one wins, unless you like Cena, in which case you are a sad little fanboy who will never get laid, but we are happy to take your money away-Moosehead Jack

"She is an estrogen molotov cocktail. It'd be in your best interest not to piss her off."- My thoughts on Firewoman

"Kurt Angle is like a living vortex of the surreal. On the off chance he's not doing, saying or thinking crazy things, people connected to him act crazy by association, caught in the gravitational pull of his insanity."- Ringout from FAN Forums

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
williamssl
Steers and Queers






Posts 8842
Registered 1-11-2004
Location La La Land
Member Is Offline

Mood: Fuck USC

posted on 1-11-2018 at 08:28 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I don't disbelieve that people will begin seeing the impacts of tax reform in their paychecks as early as February.

I don't disbelieve that a large chunk of people are going to be surprised by what they see - negative instead of positive, smaller positive instead of bigger positive, etc.

I don't disbelieve that your friend's first net paycheck is different from what he saw at the end of the year.

I do disbelieve, however, that the net difference he is seeing is directly attributable to tax reform impacts coming into play so quickly.

My first paycheck is different from what I saw in Q4 for several reasons:

1) I had maxed out on paying social security tax sometime in late 2017 such that that withholding wasn't happening for the last few months. With the new year, its' back.

2) The cost of my health benefits went up. No surprise there. That's been a "bank on it" event for the past 10 years.

3) The max annual contribution to 401k went up $500 from $18k to $18.5k, and I adjusted my % contribution to hit the new max so a little more is coming out of my paycheck each time.

etc.


I think your friend's reaction is false attribution to the personal impacts of tax reform and, frankly, a chicken little reaction that prematurely fuels the worries people have.





Don't Mess With Texas

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Count Zero
The Great One






Posts 3235
Registered 1-29-2013
Location Canada East
Member Is Offline

Mood: Can't Even

posted on 1-12-2018 at 03:56 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Even though it may be a "sky is falling" over-reaction, those kind of reactions are seemingly exactly what drives the Voting Public?

People (writ large) tend to vote "emotionally" instead of "logically".

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
BBMN
HAVES A CROOKED DICK!! !






Posts 2507
Registered 6-27-2007
Location tumblr
Member Is Offline

Mood: SJW

posted on 1-14-2018 at 03:44 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So basically even if my friend gets a little more in take-home pay, it's just table scraps, and the big winners are the 1% as expected?





"Put the chicken wings down n come to Jihad bro."

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Cherokee Jack
Man of a Thousand Holds






Posts 1935
Registered 2-24-2009
Location New Orleans, LA
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 1-14-2018 at 05:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Basically, yeah. In terms of income, we’re a pretty middle class household with two kids, and I expect to see our tax bill decrease a bit (at least temporarily). That said, I’d gladly give back the meager savings we see if it meant that children could have healthcare, Medicare/Medicaid/SocSec could be kept intact and we weren’t happily risking the economy falling off a cliff again in the next year or two so that the richest of the rich can get billions more back.





I'm Cherokee Jack!

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
OOMike
The Great One






Posts 3942
Registered 1-3-2002
Location Columbus, OH
Member Is Offline

Mood: same ol same ol

posted on 1-15-2018 at 02:08 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
Basically, yeah. In terms of income, we’re a pretty middle class household with two kids, and I expect to see our tax bill decrease a bit (at least temporarily). That said, I’d gladly give back the meager savings we see if it meant that children could have healthcare, Medicare/Medicaid/SocSec could be kept intact and we weren’t happily risking the economy falling off a cliff again in the next year or two so that the richest of the rich can get billions more back.


^This





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic – Tryon Edwards

Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.

The only OO columnist that has never written a column.

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member
CCharger
The Immortal One






Posts 4990
Registered 7-21-2010
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sick of hokey shit

posted on 1-15-2018 at 03:42 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Yup. Jack nailed it.

Essentially, the tax plan is based on the philosophy of supply-side economics. That is, give massive tax and regulation breaks to billionaires and corporations ("job creators") so that they will have more money for capital investments. With million dollars of extra money, the thinking goes, that money will spur innovation and production resulting in brand new jobs along with raises for the existing employees.

The last 35 year of American history have essentially been an experiment in supply-side economics and neoliberalism. Both political parties adhere to this philosophy with minor deviations.

This experiment has been an abject failure. Supply-side economics simply doesn't work. Billionaires and corporations don't take this extra money and reinvest it in their employees. They pocket it. They get richer and their employees stay the same. Over time, this results in massive income and wealth inequality. You have the super-rich ("the 1%") and everyone else. Real wages (that is adjusted for inflation) have remained essentially flat for 30 years. Supply-side works in the macro (stock market, GDP), but fails in the micro (workers laid off, pensions abandoned, unions busted).

This tax plan is a massive redistribution of wealth from the poor and middle class to the super-rich, and in order to pay for it, the GOP will have to gut welfare programs like Medicare, Medicaid, CHIP, and other programs - what is called "austerity". Again, it will be the most vulnerable in our society who suffer most while the elites live like the French aristocracy circa 1780.





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Paddlefoot
Rocco Rock of Jabroni






Posts 10529
Registered 1-19-2008
Location Mordor of the soul
Member Is Online

Mood: ShitBird McShitHeel

posted on 1-15-2018 at 04:14 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Just as a matter of interest what are you guys usually paying on average for your yearly health insurance? Did Obamacare cause you to have an increase in price or a decrease? I'm guessing that whatever tax decrease you now see gets wiped out by your health care costs for anyone who doesn't have employer-provided coverage.





"Let's go give these Canuckleheads a good ol red-white-and-blue fist-fucking!" - Janerd75

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
<<  1    2  >>
New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top


Powered by XMB 1.8 Partagium Final SP1
Developed By Aventure Media & The XMB Group
Processed in 0.1055350 seconds, 20 queries