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Author: Subject: PPV DISCUSSION: WWE presents Survivor Series 2017
chefb
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 03:52 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
I will say, from a strictly character perspective, HHH betraying Angle for shits and giggles is a VERY Trip thing to do and actually made me laugh.


Agree, i thought it was very much in character for HHH, and thought it made sense to move into the HHH/Angle feud. I also liked the ending with Braun beating him down, although I'm not really interested in a Braun vs Authority angle, so I hope they don't go there.

Brock/AJ was just a really good match overall. I love the flying forearm, and how he manages to make something as simple as forearm shot look completely devastating, and a totally believable finisher. I loved Brock's selling, and how AJ just kept on top of him, and I loved how AJ sold Brock's moves, really good, believable psychology IMO.

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Frank Lloyd Wright
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 04:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Pretty good night overall. Kudos to AJ for carrying Lesnar through a very good match. They both sold really well. Heyman's expressions during the match were priceless as usual.

The ME was a bit overbooked. The result didn't surprise me, but it would have been a nice twist to have Smackdown win. Cena looked rusty, HHH looked a bit out of shape, and Kurt Angle has no business being in a wrestling ring anymore. It's a shame that the match put so much focus on the old guys.





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CamstunPWG187
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 05:24 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Credit where credit is due. When the broadcast went dark a rubber-legged Hunter stayed in the ring. Steph came out to help him but every time he raised his arms up in victory he kept falling down from the Braun beating.








[Edited on 11/20/2017 by Paddlefoot]


Am I to assume you have never been to a live WWE show where Triple H loses in a dark match of in the main event of RAW? He always does that shit, and it's even lamer when he does it now.

Fuck that show.

Styles and Brock was just a hair above very good (you know, excellent until the abrupt and shitty ending brings it down to a "oh, guess I'll never watch that again, but it was very good" type of match).

Main event....Can't say I have been quite so angry with a match in a long time. Most people here have filled in whatever I want to say. Just a sham, and actually gives CM Punk's post-WWE hatred and pipebomb promo more power. That was everything that has been wrong with WWE for the past 12 years rolled into one 40-minute package.

I'll watch New Day/Shield next, but so far, NXT once again trounces the Sunday show.

[Edited on 11-20-2017 by CamstunPWG187]

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PB-13
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 05:25 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
For a guy treated as a joke against the regular roster, Enzo sure does win clean against the cruisers a lot.

Booker and Byron were not needed. Byron was better as a heel commentator in FCW.

Steph looks..."big", I'll say.

Very few qualms about the actual wrestling. Enjoyed Lesnar-Styles. It would have been hilarious to see Brock lose to Jinder and I will not be convinced that that wouldn't have been the result.





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RIP My Friend Mark, 1991-2016

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Count Zero
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 05:50 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
Was there and the HHH part after the cameras went off was weird. I'm sure he's fine but he kept falling and didn't believe Steph when she said he won. He acted like he was acting like he had a concussion. It was kinda in poor taste. I guess lol?
Yup. I've gotta second this, and though I run the risk of sounding like the "PC Police" (I'm Tyler Breeze, somebody else gotta be Fandango), the whole "I got my bell rung hyuk hyuk!" is approaching the same level of unfunny as rape jokes. Brain damage is a real serious problem, and HHH actually knew and worked with somebody who went nuts and killed himself & his family because of it. But yeah, stumble around like you've got head trauma, you arrogant, grandstanding, self-important fuckstain.

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Thom
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 06:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Eh, I guess. But this is professional wrestling, where part of the show/story is people pretending to get knocked out and/or hurt. While I don't think it would necessarily be appropriate for the average Joe to do this, it's really no different than the Flair Flop or any other sell-job. I mean, someone gets superkicked (or whatever attack to the head) and they're "out."





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Count Zero
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 06:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
During a match, yes, fine; exaggerate it for in-the-moment "selling". But playing it as "clown comedy" is passe, because the consequences of head injury are too potentially-devastating. There's a reason they don't want unprotected chairshots to the head, but it's okay to joke about the damage it causes, and run into walls on your way out of a PPV for giggles. B. A. Star strikes again.
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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 06:50 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not really because no headshots were involved, just running powerslam brutality. If we're going to complain about headshots then aim it at the women's match because Tamina alone got in at least a half-dozen well-connected superkicks by herself. Or at Lesnar for mashing the back of AJ's head into the mat during the calf crusher.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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Count Zero
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 07:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Not really because no headshots were involved, just running powerslam brutality. If we're going to complain about headshots then aim it at the women's match because Tamina alone got in at least a half-dozen well-connected superkicks by herself. Or at Lesnar for mashing the back of AJ's head into the mat during the calf crusher.
And if HHH got ZERO headshots, what the fuck is he stumbling around "concussed" for? Doesn't this kind of make it worse? He just decided to throw the old "bell-rung" gag into his routine? I get the point people are making about how it's played for laughs, but so were "blackface" and "making fun of the mentally handicapped". We realized they were bad ideas, eventually, and I think "bell-rung" is heading the same way.

If wrestling wants to add "more gravitas", let the announcers start taking head injuries semi-seriously by playing up some of the subtler aspects of concussion. People having spontaneous emotional outbreaks because 's/he got superkicked', or forgetting the name of the city they're in on live tv and the like. Oh, what? It's okay to use the funny parts of head injury, but not the scary parts? Okay, I'll stop now, I'm getting ranty.

I know this is a fake sport with bad booking, but head injuries -really- happen to the independent contractors involved, and they don't have much in the way of retirement security. I don't like that big-nosed egomaniac thinking it's okay to mock the fate he'll be protected from because he'll have the money to afford nursing staff when he starts drooling all over himself. These are human beings, despite the cartoonish violence they subject themselves to, and (despite my generally low-esteem for him as a performer) I hoped HHH-the-person might be more in tune with, and compassionate towards, his fellow wrasslers than it seems he is.

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DKBroiler
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 07:27 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Count ... you’re certainly more right than wrong but I’m gonna give this a pass. It was, after all, done off the air.

Now if they talk about it today like it’s breaking news then yeah, they are out of touch. I doubt it will ever be brought up again.





Braun Strowman guy.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 07:32 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Everybody being critical of Triple H for flopping is either:

A) unaware of the “Flair Flop” and Hunter’s mancrush for Ric

B) hates Triple H and wants a reason to bash him


I honestly can not accept anybody who has seen the Flair Flop not knowing exactly what The Game was doing.

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CVD39
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 08:04 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The Flair flop happened after a move to sell that move (and usually late in the match after a lot of damage had occurred). I didn't think anything of the first flop to the ground by HHH but by the end when he had fallen multiple times, looked like he was high/punch drunk when Steph said he won and slapped hands with (I think) children at ring side and then ran into the wall, it was a bit much. it made me legit think that he was trying to sell that he had a concussion.

One flop? It was funny. Multiple flops plus that goofy "Whaaaaaat? You mean, we like, won and stuff? Coooool, maaan"? Too much.

And someone brought up AJ getting his head slammed to the mat multiple times; if he would've sold that as the same HHH did, I would've thought the same thing I thought about the way HHH sold it.

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royberto
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 08:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Credit where credit is due. When the broadcast went dark a rubber-legged Hunter stayed in the ring. Steph came out to help him but every time he raised his arms up in victory he kept falling down from the Braun beating.




[Edited on 11-20-2017 by CamstunPWG187]
Yeah, he's totally filming HHH and not Steph's ass. Yep.

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Nobledictator1278
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 09:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I read some of the comments on here and not just here but NFL and a grrzillion other things where things get politicized. Im about to hit the big 40 ...yep Im old but I guess IM hitting that age where I just don't get it anymore...... some of this stuff seems soooo PCish and sensitive ....to me. I of course don't pretend I am right buttttt sheesh...sometimes I think we take the PC route so that we can justify our positions. IN this case I think some folks just hate HHH and want to shit all over him....didn't like how the main event was booked...and thus this became more justification why HHH was bullshit.

For the record for those that hate HHH....justly or not....everytime he comes out he gets a reaction....He looks the part, fans want him there, and he is eventually going to give a huge rub to someone. I think folks need to lay off the HHH hate and appreciate that he is just good for business.

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First 9
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 10:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Yeah, the acusation of making fun of concusiions is a bit much but still, HHH sucks.

He's a nostalgia act that's not as beloved as Taker or Shawn and refuses to change it up. When the Authority was fresh and new, they made for good foils against Daniel Bryan and The Shield but they've overstayed their welcome. Yeah, he still gets a reaction but so did Hogan and the other old farts in WCW 2000 or Mr. McMahon when he was still trying to recreate the magic against Stone Cold via feuding with super face #81 in 2007. The results are generallyy ok but it's coming at the expense of giving new guys time to experiment and do something fresh.

[Edited on 11-20-2017 by First 9]

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CCharger
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 11:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nobledictator1278
I read some of the comments on here and not just here but NFL and a grrzillion other things where things get politicized. Im about to hit the big 40 ...yep Im old but I guess IM hitting that age where I just don't get it anymore...... some of this stuff seems soooo PCish and sensitive ....to me. I of course don't pretend I am right buttttt sheesh...sometimes I think we take the PC route so that we can justify our positions. IN this case I think some folks just hate HHH and want to shit all over him....didn't like how the main event was booked...and thus this became more justification why HHH was bullshit.

For the record for those that hate HHH....justly or not....everytime he comes out he gets a reaction....He looks the part, fans want him there, and he is eventually going to give a huge rub to someone. I think folks need to lay off the HHH hate and appreciate that he is just good for business.

Agreed. I hate HHH but not enough to criticize him for mocking head injuries.

Look, it's pro wrestling. The idea, for the most part, is to pin your opponent. Usually that involves hitting them with a maneuver that "stuns" them or "knocks them out" allowing you to pin them.

Should every match end in a submission or a small package/inside cradle now because anyone selling the F-5 or the Pedigree is "mocking concussions"?

FFS

[Edited on 11-20-2017 by CCharger]





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Count Zero
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posted on 11-21-2017 at 01:03 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Look, it's pro wrestling. The idea, for the most part, is to pin your opponent. Usually that involves hitting them with a maneuver that "stuns" them or "knocks them out" allowing you to pin them.
I love how you seem to ignore the fact that I said within the confines of a match, SELL THE FUCK OUT OF IT. We're supposed to believe in the moment that a wrestling match is violent, but also know that people aren't getting "really hurt" except by accident.

So when HHH takes time at the end of a show we don't even really NEED him on to shoulder the burden of "sending the crowd home happy" with stumblefuckery hijinx, it's not the same thing at all.

Christ. Go back to mourning the passing of Jake Roberts. You're getting obtuse.

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