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Author: Subject: MAGA
CCharger
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posted on 11-9-2017 at 02:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
MAGA

Hey, it's been a year since Donald Trump was elected.

I'm just checking in to see if America is great again yet.





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"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-9-2017 at 06:04 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not being dramatic but the day after the election was as personally as bad a day for me as Sept 11 was. Not being a crybaby about it but electing that thing as POTUS was a sharp reminder that no matter how bad things are they can always get worse.

Yeah, and goddamn Hillary Clinton forever for running a campaign so awful, and for being such a loathsome person/politician herself, that she effectively was the only opponent that an oozing pustule like Donald Trump could defeat.





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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 11-10-2017 at 04:28 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Not being dramatic but the day after the election was as personally as bad a day for me as Sept 11 was. Not being a crybaby about it but electing that thing as POTUS was a sharp reminder that no matter how bad things are they can always get worse.


After getting almost no sleep on election night because my heart wouldn't stop pounding in my chest, I got to work the next morning to find out we'd been robbed overnight, so that sentiment was especially true for me.

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the goon
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posted on 11-10-2017 at 05:32 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
My father-in-law passed away the morning after Trump was elected, so while on my way to work that day, processing the fact that Donald Trump was now our president and this wasn't some kind of fucked up alternate reality, my wife called me to let me know her dad had died (he had been really sick in the months leading up to his death, so it wasn't out of the blue, but talk about a double-whammy). That was one hell of a day. Luckily, my wife and her family all have good senses of humor, so the ongoing joke now is that her dad said "Donald Trump is the president? Fuck that, I'm out."

And I know Trump has three years left, but there's no wall yet, Hillary hasn't been locked up, ISIS is still a thing (and running people over in New York), there have been two huge mass shootings in the past month alone, and we're probably all going to die in a nuclear war with North Korea. And you know what? His supporters probably don't give two shits, because the evil black Muslim is out of the White House and all the liberal snowflakes lost the election.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-10-2017 at 06:18 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Pretty sure that if the dickwad nukes Pyongyang or Tehran and kills a million people in one shot (because that's the way these things work, the folks who have no control over what their own shitty dictator governments do will be the ones that get clobbered while their scummy leaders are safe in a mountain bunker somewhere), the general reaction of far too many of the MAGA's is going to be something like this:



Not trying to be insulting to anyone here. Just stating that the general vibe I get from most Trump supporters is what Goon basically said - it really doesn't matter if anything of substance gets accomplished. All that counts is that someone on the official hate list gets hurt. Like sorry old Theoden said, how the hell did it ever come to this?





They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I won't allow them.
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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 11-10-2017 at 01:21 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Not trying to be insulting to anyone here. Just stating that the general vibe I get from most Trump supporters is what Goon basically said - it really doesn't matter if anything of substance gets accomplished. All that counts is that someone on the official hate list gets hurt. Like sorry old Theoden said, how the hell did it ever come to this?


Talk radio.

You take something like half of the nation's voters and spend 25 years telling them, over and over again, day in and day out, that hurting liberals should be their No. 1 priority, and sooner or later they're going to elect someone whose only workable campaign promise is to hurt liberals.

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CCharger
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posted on 11-15-2017 at 05:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
https://www.axios.com/how-american-politics-went-batshit-crazy-2508881433.html

Here's a great article on how American politics - in particular the right wing - became so fucked up.

Here are who they blame:

Newt Gingrich, who weaponized politics in the 1990's to make it "we are good, they are evil"

Fox News, who has encouraged and monetized hard-edged political combat and fomented rage

Social media, who have made it possible for every nutjob of any stripe to find fans to cheer him or her on and say things in public you would have kept to yourself in the past and whose algorithms can detect rage in what you post and then feed you lots of articles to sustain your rage

Sarah Palin, who legitimized conservative victimhood as a lifestyle choice

Donald Trump's Twitter account, which allows and encourages real-time minute-by-minute rage and created the "fake news" epidemic

No mention of Rush Limbaugh who as Mr. Jameson mentioned, has spent 30 years brainwashing gullible Americans that the "liberal agenda" is antithetical to "American values"





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BBMN
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posted on 11-19-2017 at 05:38 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm continually pissed at the Left for mocking Trump for failing to accomplish pretty much any of his major goals. Like guys, it's been less than a year, he has plenty of time left.

And focusing on the really big stuff completely means one is not looking at the administration is really executing - Death by a thousand cuts.

We won't see the impacts of a lot of this stuff for months if not years, but we will. He's actively seeking to strip away any consumer and environmental protections possible. He's cut the budget of the national parks. He's working on passing a truly awful tax plan designed solely to benefit the rich. He's declared we have an opiate crisis, yet set aside less than 60k to battle it. He's turned us into a laughing stock, damaged relations with Mexico, Canada, the UK, Australia, Iran, and is teasing a nuclear holocaust with North Korea.

He's butt fucked everything with breath taking speed and stupidity. We're so fucked. The only good is that some of his working class supporters are finally seeing him for the conman that he is, and we're seeing some Red areas turn Blue as a response.





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OOMike
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 02:05 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
https://www.axios.com/how-american-politics-went-batshit-crazy-2508881433.html

Here's a great article on how American politics - in particular the right wing - became so fucked up.

Here are who they blame:

Newt Gingrich, who weaponized politics in the 1990's to make it "we are good, they are evil"

Fox News, who has encouraged and monetized hard-edged political combat and fomented rage

Social media, who have made it possible for every nutjob of any stripe to find fans to cheer him or her on and say things in public you would have kept to yourself in the past and whose algorithms can detect rage in what you post and then feed you lots of articles to sustain your rage

Sarah Palin, who legitimized conservative victimhood as a lifestyle choice

Donald Trump's Twitter account, which allows and encourages real-time minute-by-minute rage and created the "fake news" epidemic

No mention of Rush Limbaugh who as Mr. Jameson mentioned, has spent 30 years brainwashing gullible Americans that the "liberal agenda" is antithetical to "American values"


I have to read the article, but not just Rush, I blame all of Talk Radio in the 90's for creating this firestorm of "we only win, if they lose" mentality. I guess you could say by extension this is partly Bill Clinton's fault. A lot of this "morally superior" outrage stems from Whitewater/Lewinsky impeachment crap.

Ah the good old days where getting a blow job got you impeached....





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

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Count Zero
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posted on 11-20-2017 at 07:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Not trying to be insulting to anyone here. Just stating that the general vibe I get from most Trump supporters is what Goon basically said - it really doesn't matter if anything of substance gets accomplished. All that counts is that someone on the official hate list gets hurt. Like sorry old Theoden said, how the hell did it ever come to this?


Talk radio.

You take something like half of the nation's voters and spend 25 years telling them, over and over again, day in and day out, that hurting liberals should be their No. 1 priority, and sooner or later they're going to elect someone whose only workable campaign promise is to hurt liberals.
Yup. Unfortunately "Freedom of Speech" extended to "quasi-hate propaganda", and too many people didn't recognize it as the extremist thinking it is while adopting shades of extremism in their daily lives.

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G. Jonah Jameson
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posted on 11-21-2017 at 01:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think the right would have gone after any Democratic president the way they went after Clinton. Yeah, they used the "lecherous hillbilly" angle against him because it's what they had, but they'd have found something to target no matter who was in that position. The first Democratic president since Reagan changed the game -- and one who unseated a sitting Republican president, no less, in an election Republicans at the time didn't think was fair because of the involvement of Ross Perot -- was never going to be able to avoid it.

quote:
Originally posted by BBMN
I'm continually pissed at the Left for mocking Trump for failing to accomplish pretty much any of his major goals. Like guys, it's been less than a year, he has plenty of time left.

And focusing on the really big stuff completely means one is not looking at the administration is really executing - Death by a thousand cuts.



Trump has definitely accomplished more than the left gives him credit for, no doubt, but I think there's some validity to discounting his accomplishments. Painting him as ineffective isn't going to get any of his voters to change sides, but it likely will affect their enthusiasm, and that's the real difference-maker when it comes election time. Republicans don't win elections just by motivating their voters, they win them by reducing the number of opposing voters, either by convincing them not to vote or by making it so they can't vote. The left probably doesn't have a mechanism for the latter, but it's seen what can happen when the former works in its favor (2006).

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CCharger
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posted on 11-21-2017 at 04:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson

Trump has definitely accomplished more than the left gives him credit for, no doubt,

What exactly?

Not being snarky. I legit want to know what he has accomplished since he was inaugurated.





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-21-2017 at 05:45 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
He's certainly wrecked things at an accelerated pace a lot faster than most assumed he would back on inauguration day. That's an accomplishment of a sort, if you go by the logic of sociopaths.





They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I won't allow them.
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Quentil
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posted on 11-21-2017 at 09:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson

Trump has definitely accomplished more than the left gives him credit for, no doubt,

What exactly?

Not being snarky. I legit want to know what he has accomplished since he was inaugurated.


He has rolled back a lot of environmental stuff, removed the US from the TPP and Paris Agreements, removed a bunch of Obama regulations protecting LGBT folks and also students, put a supreme court justice in place, and has assigned a huge amount of lower judges to positions all over the landscape. His policies have also hastened an already slacking of border crossings.

Whether you like him or not, those are all accomplishments.

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bopol
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posted on 11-22-2017 at 05:03 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
He's certainly wrecked things at an accelerated pace a lot faster than most assumed he would back on inauguration day. That's an accomplishment of a sort, if you go by the logic of sociopaths.


Fuck, I figured he would have us in a devastating war by now, so I think he's actually doing better than I expected.





I only signed up so I can read the forum.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-22-2017 at 06:07 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Maybe for the twelfth day of Christmas, as going by the MAGA Advent calendar.





They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I won't allow them.
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CCharger
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posted on 11-22-2017 at 04:34 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quentil
quote:

He has rolled back a lot of environmental stuff,

Using executive orders to reverse a previous administration's policies is not an "accomplishment" in my opinion. Also, not protecting the environment is bad, so also not an accomplishment.
quote:
removed the US from the TPP

This is a good thing. Even Hillary Clinton and much of Congress (including Democrats) would agree. I still wouldn't call it an accomplishment. All it requires is a stroke of the pen.

quote:
and Paris Agreements,

Regardless, the earliest effective withdrawal date for the treaty is one day after the 2020 election, so if a Dem wins, Trump's move is moot. Also, not an accomplishment, just a pen stroke.
quote:
removed a bunch of Obama regulations protecting LGBT folks and also students,

This is not an accomplishment. This rolls back civil rights protections and is bad.
quote:
put a supreme court justice in place,

MAYBE an accomplishment, but this is after the GOP in Congress flouted the rules and held out on voting for Obama's nominee. So still a dick move.
quote:
and has assigned a huge amount of lower judges to positions all over the landscape.

I'm not familiar enough with this to have an opinion. If true, then this would be an accomplishment.

quote:
His policies have also hastened an already slacking of border crossings.

What policies?

Look, Q, I get your point. I guess from a certain POV you could view these as accomplishments, but by any other standard measure Trump's first year will be looked upon as an abject failure. But like most other things Trump, we hold him to a lower standard than we do past presidents.

[Edited on 11-22-2017 by CCharger]





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posted on 11-22-2017 at 06:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
{Snip a whole lot}

Look, Q, I get your point. I guess from a certain POV you could view these as accomplishments, but by any other standard measure Trump's first year will be looked upon as an abject failure. But like most other things Trump, we hold him to a lower standard than we do past presidents.

[Edited on 11-22-2017 by CCharger]


Whether they are good or bad, they are accomplishments. Whether they are morally ambiguous or not, they are accomplishments. Whether you agree with them or not, they are still accomplishments. I don't agree with any of them, but I still see them as accomplishments.

And you still don't understand the true intent of the TPP. Which all the same countries are now signing with China, btw. Which will cost tens of thousands of American jobs down the road. And weaken American security and influence in the whole East Asian region.

But yeah, I get it. You hate Trump. I hate Trump as well. But to not understand that he's doing exactly what his support base wants him to do is underestimating him. And you shouldn't do that.

His list of accomplishments is epic, from the perspective of his base. He's showed the minorities and women their "place" in white male Christian society, he's breathed life into a stagnant white power movement and given it mainstream cover and respectability, he's put into motion what will be the biggest attack on public schooling that I can ever remember and privatize education into haves and have nots. He's completely removed American credibility everywhere in the world, making our military the only thing we're known for. Which will no doubt create countless new terrorists to continue the battle well into the mid-century.

But that is all amazing to his support base. They eat that shit up and demand more. They are literally letting him carve out their life savings from under them and to ensure their kids will likely be poor for generations to come. And they are loving....LOVING it, every step of the way. They honestly are okay with it, so long as the "libtards" are angry and raging on social media. Because that's the reality show generation in effect.

If those aren't accomplishments, then I don't know what are.

But I get what you mean, as well. And yeah, it sucks.

Edited to Add:

quote:
and has assigned a huge amount of lower judges to positions all over the landscape.

quote:

I'm not familiar enough with this to have an opinion. If true, then this would be an accomplishment.


This is the biggest thing that too few people are talking about, actually. At least in my opinion. He's literally filling state-level justice positions with hard-right and very Christian judges, which will no doubt have wide-ranging consequences over the next decade or two. Definitely look into it when you have a bit of reading time and you'll get properly outraged I'm sure.


[Edited on 11-22-2017 by Quentil]

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BBMN
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posted on 11-22-2017 at 09:54 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
not an "accomplishment" in my opinion... also not an accomplishment... wouldn't call it an accomplishment... not an accomplishment, just a pen stroke... ect...


These are tremendous accomplishments if you're insane, a sociopath, corrupt, amoral, or simply greedy as fuck. Nobody said he was trying to accomplish your vision.

I mean, Hitler's resume is filled with "accomplishments" if you're a racist shitbag.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-22-2017 at 10:17 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Creating chaos, scaring foreigners (including long-time American allies), and wrecking the system of government is exactly what a large part of his bloc wanted him to do. To them Trump is living up to what they expected from him. It's ultimate nihilism of course, that anyone would want to make the world a worse place, but when enemies are getting hurt (and that included the cultural enemies even if they too are American citizens) the fans are usually happy to see it going on no matter the consequences that will certainly bite back at them too one day.

It's a revolution of a sort, I suppose. Not like the original American revolution that actually led to a better world once a upon a time. More like what happened in France or Russia, where the revolutionary dreams got hijacked by mass-murdering sadists and the contest was on to see who could shed the most enemy blood. Not that America will turn out that way, of course, but go to a few of the Trump fan-sites and it's easy to see that there's enough cretins out there that are genuinely hoping that things will get much, much worse as soon as possible. Like Jim Morrison said, it's like being lost in a Roman wilderness of pain, and all the children have gone insane.





They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I won't allow them.
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CCharger
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posted on 11-23-2017 at 12:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quentil

And you still don't understand the true intent of the TPP. Which all the same countries are now signing with China, btw. Which will cost tens of thousands of American jobs down the road. And weaken American security and influence in the whole East Asian region.

[Edited on 11-22-2017 by Quentil]


Look, you and I have respectfully disagreed about globalization and free trade, and I don't think we are going to change each other's minds. Nevertheless, I DO understand the true intent of the TPP. It was never an economic deal. It was a diplomatic deal. It allowed the US to maintain a degree of hegemony in Asia. The deal was designed to keep Asian trading partners under America's wing to block China's growing economic influence.

The idea was that if everyone brought down taxes on exported goods, U.S. companies would pay less for imports while benefiting from cheaper labor overseas. That hurts American workers. Period. Full stop.

Yes, corporations LOVE free trade. They get to share profits with shareholders, the government gets the taxes, but workers don't get their fair share.

The TPP would have been a diplomatic victory at the expense of the American working man and woman. Call me what you will, but that is a bargain I do not believe is worthwhile.

Free trade is great for governments. Free trade is great for corporations. Capital is mobile. Labor is not. So with free trade, corporations are allowed to move capital to third world countries and exploit the cheap labor market there while blue collar people in the Rust Belt and elsewhere become poor and resentful. Does it raise the GDP? Sure! It's great on a macroeconomic sense. But it has ruined Main Street and Smalltown, USA.

Think of it this way, suppose you and your four closest friends share and apartment. All five of you have been unemployed for a few weeks. Suddenly, you get a great paying job. From a macro standpoint, your entire household as received a windfall. But in actuality, NONE of your friends are sharing in your paycheck.

Now, if you think that those companies making BILLIONS by cutting costs and exploiting third world labor are going to take those profits and turn them into higher wages...well, if you still believe in trickledown economics in 2017, I don't know what to tell you.

Now, many centrists Dems like yourself are quick to bark that "free trade didn't hurt working Americans! Technology did! You didn't lose your job to a Mexican; you lost it to a robot!"
This is undeniably true, but is also being used as a cop out. No, we will never see the steel mills return to Pennsylvania or the auto plants return to Detroit, but to say that free trade hasn't cost American jobs or American manufacturing power? Come on...

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that free trade, globalization, neoliberalism - whatever catch words you want to describe it - has been bad for the everyday Joe Six Pack.

I'll leave you with a quote from sociologist and political economist John L. Campbell of Dartmouth College who uses the prison system as an analogy:

"On the one hand, it punishes the lower class, which populates the prisons; on the other hand, it profits the upper class, which owns the prisons, and it employs the middle class, which runs them."

ETA: I don't know why this is italicized.

[Edited on 11-22-2017 by CCharger]





"I don't watch the show, Paul. Why would I watch the show?"

"I hate it when I'm watching along at home and I'm envisioning certain common sense things, and WWE just leaves all that money on the table to do something that will have no result other than send viewers looking for something else."

-- The Rick

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Quentil
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posted on 11-23-2017 at 02:32 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Eh, you went into lots of detail drawing from pure opinion being labeled as irrefutable fact. Which you often do. And used examples that don't really fit what you are trying to say.
But it's cool. Let's stop this here, because in the past I've shown evidence that highlights flaws in your opinions, and you have always just dismissed them outright. You don't agree to the idea that the loss of secured markets coupled with increased tariffs will actually contract the workforce. You believe otherwise, despite the fact that there's five centuries of data suggesting you are more wrong than right. And I'm not sure how this is a positive thing, despite your belief in it. But whatever. Agree to disagree and all that. I'm sure I let my own personal opinion filter into my arguments too, even if it's a terrible thing to do when discussing most anything like this.

But I have to ask: If the deal was so so bad, why is China rushing into it full-bore, hmm? I'd say in my opinion it's because they understand the importance of secured markets and that economic influence is equally or more important than any military influence in a region.

Edited to soften my tone because it came out harsher than intended.

[Edited on 11-23-2017 by Quentil]

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posted on 11-23-2017 at 09:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Creating chaos...


There's an idea I've seen put forth that is equal parts insane, and plausible - Trump, is literally a long-con Russian agent. Yea, crazy conspiracy time...

But if you were Putin, what things has Trump done that you wouldn't find pleasure with? He's basically done more damage to America's image than Russia could ever do with their troll army. He's showed time and time again that he just wants to hangout with Putin.

He shows up at the G20 and flat out tells Putin he wants to chat.



He used his son in law to try to establish a hidden channel to Moscow.

He meets with Putin on camera and attacks the free-press, in a disturbing moment that surely made the former KGB officer happy.

He tells Russia on live tv to hack Hillary's emails.

He has a hotel in Panama with ties to the Russian mafia.

He has more than once showered Putin in praise.

Either he's the dumbest fuck in the world, or he legit has been in Putin's back pocket for years. Either option is bad.

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posted on 11-24-2017 at 01:49 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:

TPP discussion


Since my job has to do with imports into the US and exports to other countries for a major retailer of womens bras and panties (among other brands as well) TPP (and trade deals in general) has been a major focus at work for a long time, and let me also add that the other benefit that trade deals provide to lower class Americans are lower prices. Not to mention all the jobs associated with transportation and distribution that go along with importing goods.

Plus, labor costs are not the only reason companies move production overseas, there is the issue of capacity, and overall lower cost of manufacture. By this I mean the amount of goods we as a country consume is much more than what we can produce, and that has been going on for decades, plus the lower labor costs and fewer regulations could never be matched by production in this country, unless you want all these low priced consumer goods prices to double or triple.





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CamstunPWG187
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posted on 11-26-2017 at 07:44 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
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