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Author: Subject: OOfficial Discussion Thread for: SmackDown (September 12, 2017)
Paddlefoot
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 12:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caesar guy
Paddlefoot, not sure if KO would have been able to pop up power bomb Steph in that outfit. The only thing that could pop up was already in my shorts doing so.


That much is certain. Poor in fashion taste but very effective in emphasizing her tig ol' bitties.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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Matte
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 12:34 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
FFS, it's pro wrestling. Guys in wheel chairs get rolled off the stage. Guys in neck braces get piledriven. Women get powerbombed through tables. Guys get crucified.

As 80 year old Mae Young once told Bob Holly, "Bring it, motherfucker."

You're comparing fake injuries and standard bumps with blunt force to the skull. A powerbomb is different from a shoot headbutt in the same way a table bump is different from an unprotected chair to the head.





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GodEatGod
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 02:16 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Plus, someone can be like "I don't wanna see that" and not be OFFENDED or clutching pearls. "I don't like seeing old people taking beatings" is a pretty low standard for decency (although I admit, the segment didn't particularly bother me, but I can understand how it would).





"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey

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janerd75
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 02:22 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Plus, someone can be like "I don't wanna see that" and not be OFFENDED or clutching pearls. "I don't like seeing old people taking beatings" is a pretty low standard for decency (although I admit, the segment didn't particularly bother me, but I can understand how it would).








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GodEatGod
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 02:44 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75










"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 02:44 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Worked once with a crazy (yet oddly logical) pipefitter who said "what's wrong with beating up old people? who do you think all the shitty young people learned being shitty from in the first place?".





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 03:43 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Reading this thread...is the issue an old guy took a direct shot...or that anybody took a direct shot?

I can understand not enjoying seeing a guy get his brains scrambled. Regardless of age. But if the issue is that the guy is old? WTF?

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 04:15 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It's WWE, not some insane Japanese promotion where they keep trying to kill each other for real.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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janerd75
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 05:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I understand the "cringe seeing the elderly go down hardway" crowd, of which I am a member. However, it's fucking Vince of the Grapefruit Clan. Motherfucker is 72 years old and is taking bloody headshots from the no chance in hell pudgy indy guy. Celebrate it for what it is while we have it. We won't get many more of these.





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rranddm
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 05:44 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Man, that headbutt was brutal. Almost uncomfortably so.
My thoughts, in live-time.

Like, that was just an ugly ending. I 'get' it, but I'm past the point where I like seeing somebody's grandpa eat a Zinedine Frenchguy Headbutt. Then the extra beatings after that were even more disconcerting. I don't even like Vince that much! I just don't like seeing old people get beat up.


Hey Zidane headbutted that guy in the sternum. The Italian flopped like a gunshot. The best part was that it was allegedly over Zidane taking exception to the flopper calling his mother "terrorist whore". Later on momma supposedly replied, "If he said that I want his balls on a stick". Talk about promo worthy





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Paddlefoot
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 05:55 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
That Italian flopping when Zidane hit him was the greatest bit of over-acting by a gutless person since Kramer & Newman got spat on by Roger McDowell.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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GodEatGod
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 01:49 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
I understand the "cringe seeing the elderly go down hardway" crowd, of which I am a member. However, it's fucking Vince of the Grapefruit Clan. Motherfucker is 72 years old and is taking bloody headshots from the no chance in hell pudgy indy guy. Celebrate it for what it is while we have it. We won't get many more of these.


Pretty much this. If it were some random old man or even most legends, I might have a problem with it. But it's Vince so I feel more free to enjoy it. He probably asked for an extra giant steak afterwards and then made Owens amateur wrestle him on the carpet or some shit.





"It is an impressively arrogant move to conclude that just because you don't like something, it is empirically not good. I don't like Chinese food, but I don't write articles trying to prove it doesn't exist." - Tina Fey

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CCharger
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 02:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Meltzer is reporting that Vince bladed prior to the segment and covered it in Nu-skin. Owens headbutt was only strong enough to open the cut, not concuss Vince.
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janerd75
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 04:32 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I choose to believe it was totally a shoot and now Owens will sit the next week or so out going through the concussion protocols after smashing his head into the brick fucking solid coconut that is Vince's skull.





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Count Zero
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 06:33 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So if Meltzer is right, that takes a lot of the "Vince can take it!!!" factor out of the equation. Even -he- knew that taking a full-on headbutt is stupid and stupid and stupid.

So I get back to the Lazy Booking. Kevin Owens is a heel. He makes Vince say that if "A McMahon raises a hand to him, he can fight back" (spirit of the quote, if not the letter). Then Vince raises zero hands, and gets shitkicked. Somehow beating up Grandpa Vince was necessary for... what? Making him "Shane-worthy"? Did KO really need any more stank on it? He told Shane that it would've been better for his kids if he (Shane) were dead. That pretty much sets the bar. Next week, are we bringing out Shane's Wife, Marissa, for a ritual pop-up powerbomb? Just, y'know, in case the WWEUniverse haven't grasped the subtleties of KEVIN OWENS IS A DASTARDLY HEEL?

I am obviously in the minority, and I won't try prolonging the misery or anything. I just don't see what point there is to it other than SHOCK AND DISGUST!!!! and that's pretty carny. Sometimes I am reminded of the roots of wrassling and I am not fond of those times. I stay because of the flippy-floppy acrobats, not the dog-faced snake-eating geek-boy.

etpunctuatemoar.

[Edited on 9-14-2017 by Count Zero]

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Matte
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 06:52 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
So I get back to the Lazy Booking. Kevin Owens is a heel...Somehow beating up Grandpa Vince was necessary for... what?

I think more weight is being put on his age by some people than was intended. Yes, he's an old man and that does add a little to the gross nature of the attack, but I think the main point of the attack was Vince's job, not his age. It's not necessarily that Owens beat up old man Vince, but more so that Owens beat up owner and chairman Vince.

Back when Orton punt kicked Vince's head off, the reason it was a big deal was because it's Vincent Kennedy McMahon, dammit! Not because it's disrespectful to an elder.





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Count Zero
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 07:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I can see what you're saying, Matte. It still kind of strikes me as "stunt-casting for ratings" more than "storylogic", if looked at in that light. But if -that- is the case, it ain't the first time storylogic has fallen by the wayside & I ought to be much used to that by now. Anyway, it won't matter in a few weeks when Kevin Owens is jobbing to Becky Lynch. (I make joke!!)





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punkerhardcore
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 09:52 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Should we mention that Jinder Mahal promo? That was fucking pitiful. You could've heard a pin drop in the crowd, and rightfully so. As if it wasn't bad enough, those two nameless bozos he's stuck with made it even worse with their terrible over acting during the whole thing.

Although I thought it was funny when Jinder asked, "are you laughing?" No, mother fucker! Not a single person was making a peep!





Is everyone mad here?
Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.

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SpiNNeR72
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 09:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It was done because Shane isn't very good at the talking/promoting thing, that's the crux of it.
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GodEatGod
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 09:54 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero

So I get back to the Lazy Booking. Kevin Owens is a heel. He makes Vince say that if "A McMahon raises a hand to him, he can fight back" (spirit of the quote, if not the letter). Then Vince raises zero hands, and gets shitkicked.

[Edited on 9-14-2017 by Count Zero]


I know you said 'spirit of the quote' and all, but the precise wording is actually important. Because he didn't say 'raised a hand', he said if a McMahon provoked him. Specifically provoked after Vince had said some pretty rough shit to Owens already, meaning he had already decided he was kicking Vince's ass and just wanted to cover his ass from being punished for it. Would he have done it anyway? Eh, probably. But it makes it obviously a deliberate and vindictive act rather than a mere loss of temper.

Owens' character is actually highly consistent and one of the best things in wrestling. Max Landis rightly points out, that character is a disturbed child bully. He throws temper tantrums, disassociates with rage and lashes out blindly while constantly complaining about how nothing's fair. He constantly dishes it out and can take none of it back. He is a hypocrite and a liar and a sneak, but he can also beat the living hell out of just about anyone. He's stewing and resentful and jealous. One of the reasons I think Roman had trouble drawing heat against Owens is that Roman's character is so thin while Owens is so rich - the contrast made Roman's blandness all the more stark. Magnified immensely by having Chris Jericho in the middle of it all, because nobody's better at that stuff than CJ.

[Edited on 9-14-2017 by GodEatGod]





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First 9
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posted on 9-14-2017 at 11:29 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
He's definently one of the better written characters. When he was discussing his ideas for SD under his leadership almost every one of them had a story behind them. Firing Zayn because he'll always hate Zayn, cancelling the Fashion Files because he's previously expressed his disgust towards them, offering to do a favor to the guy whose been kicking Sami Zayn's ass, giving Byrong and Phillips shit just like he always does, etc. You can't do that with just anybody on the roster.
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the goon
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posted on 9-15-2017 at 05:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Meltzer is reporting that Vince bladed prior to the segment and covered it in Nu-skin. Owens headbutt was only strong enough to open the cut, not concuss Vince.


I was wondering if something like this was the case. The way the cut formed and looked after Vince started bleeding just kind of screamed "blade job" to me.

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Should we mention that Jinder Mahal promo? That was fucking pitiful. You could've heard a pin drop in the crowd, and rightfully so. As if it wasn't bad enough, those two nameless bozos he's stuck with made it even worse with their terrible over acting during the whole thing.


Lost in the Vince/Owens discussion, 100% this! In the four months that Mahal has been champion, there have been zero promos or matches from him that has made me think he was deserving of his "from jobber to WWE champion" push. If the WWE is making a ton of money from the India market with him as champion than more power to them, but holy shit the guy can't drop the title fast enough for me. My main fear though is that they'll continue to try and "JBL" him into a legit champion and he holds the belt until the Royal Rumble.

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Count Zero
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posted on 9-15-2017 at 09:33 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
I know you said 'spirit of the quote' and all, but the precise wording is actually important. Because he didn't say 'raised a hand', he said if a McMahon provoked him. Specifically provoked after Vince had said some pretty rough shit to Owens already, meaning he had already decided he was kicking Vince's ass and just wanted to cover his ass from being punished for it. Would he have done it anyway? Eh, probably. But it makes it obviously a deliberate and vindictive act rather than a mere loss of temper.
Is truth, what you say. I just didn't parse it that finely, I guess. I'm used to the WWE being heavy-handed with THAT sort of thing. Maybe I didn't figure Vince would get suckered into that bad a deal? Eh. Okay, I 'get' it more than I got it before. You are all very nice for being patient with me.

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