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Author: Subject: Iron Fist
nOOb
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posted on 3-16-2017 at 07:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Iron Fist

The last stop before Defenders becomes a thing in September happens tomorrow:



So far initial reviews for episode one haven't been great for episode one because it's "too soap opera-y", which means all of the reviewers are expecting awesome action sequences right away with zero character buildup, so it's a good thing for them everyone gets every episode right away. I have no worries, though, because so far Netflix Marvel shows have hit it out of the park 3 of the last 4 times (Daredevil seasons 1 & 2 and Luke Cage), while Jessica Jones was a solid double that wound up being an E8 also because the center fielder was a converted second baseman who overthrew the bag so the runner took third on the play, and then thought about going home but the overthrow rebounded off the wall right to the catcher, who simply chased the runner back to third instead of throwing to the third baseman because we all know that pitcher isn't about to cover home behind him if they get him in a rundown.

So, yeah, I can't wait to start binging another sure-to-be outstanding series that adds the fourth major piece to what is sure to be the best show in a long time in the Defenders this fall while also adding upwards of five additional supplemental pieces to that show as well (seriously, so far the cast of the Defenders is "everyone who's been on any of these shows that is still alive in some way, shape, or form).





"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL Sunday.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 3-16-2017 at 07:08 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I hope the show succeeds, given how incensed the SJW's were when they cast a white guy as Danny Rand which was exactly according to the entire history of the Iron Fist character. It might have the odds against it though as there appears to be a PC campaign in motion to first deride the show, then attack Finn Jones himself, with the aim of deliberately tanking the ratings.

[Edited on 3/16/2017 by Paddlefoot]





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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Flash
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posted on 3-19-2017 at 05:31 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm two episodes in and it's not quite the home run that the other Marvel Netflix shows have been...

Danny seems a bit disjointed... like going about things like a petulant child charging headfirst into things and just expecting things to go his way... Now given his removal from the world he is trying to re-enter for the past 15 years this might be a deliberate choice, so we'll see.

I also think in terms of putting a compelling villain, or story in place the show is missing something... our main villain appears to be a flunky/spoiled kid in a mans body, and the maybe villain is kind of rudderless. In a medium where the hero is often as defined by his arch nemesis as their own character arc, Iron fist again falls short.

Two episodes in and there is just no hook... Danny thought dead comes back 15 years later knowing kung fu (and honestly hearing the villain express "and where did her learn kung fu" was just dumb... like he's been gone for 15 years, why is THAT your question) and the story is that evil corporate guys are planning to expand their business into China.... damn that capitalism!

Daredevil set the action tone pretty quick out of the gate... the first episode had a pretty brutal dock fight, and the second (I think?) had the extended corridor fight... we've gotten a couple of fights in Iron fist and while okay, they seem to lack any kind of signature style.

Coleen Wing seems pretty interesting... for your third or fourth character down the pecking chart to be your most intriguing seems to spell some trouble.

As far as all the SJW stuff about how Danny (who's white in the comics) is another white appropriation, or white savior... honestly that stuff has just devolved to noise for me at this point... yeah an Asian guy could have played the character, but in the comics it was his outsider status to Kun'Lun and that world that played a big part in the characters arc... so, and this seems to be a foreign concept to people crying foul about such things, I'm going to watch the show first then form an opinion.

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nOOb
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posted on 3-19-2017 at 11:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
For what it's worth, by the end of episode 4 they've fleshed out the fact that the Meachums are not 100% (or really even 50%) the villain focus of the show, and they start adding in some of the action sequences that were big in Daredevil. Him being naive is also fleshed out a little bit better into "He's a guy coming back from an area where they went hardcore in instilling the 'betterment of humankind' aspects of Western philosophy into him for most of his formative years".

Things are at least tying into the Daredevil and Jessica Jones series, too, which helps. Barring a major pickup in the second half of the season, this is probably going to wind up being somewhere between Jessica Jones and Luke Cage in terms of entertainment (Cage being just a tiny bit below Daredevil). But the internet will do it what it always does and complain loudly about either the wrong thing or something that isn't even a factor in the show. Hopefully Marvel just continues to do what it does and block out those voices because they are stupid and will continue watching anyways.





"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL Sunday.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 3-20-2017 at 12:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not sure why over the years Marvel never resurrected Shang Chi, The Master Of Kung-Fu. It was a good comic back in the old days. I hate feeding anything into the silliness of modern social politics but if they brought him back and put him into this Defenders Assemble vibe they're building up to on Netflix he'd fit in perfectly. Not to stoke up the ranters anymore than they already have been with their manufactured dislike of Danny Rand/Finn Jones, adding Shang Chi would cover the diversity quota that they've decided must be the absolutely most important aspect of super-hero/comic book adaptations for film and TV.

Sorry to go on like this but I really dislike how the internet has made the SJW's the loudest and most complaining voices in the room, and how they seem to automatically get to have fiction, even characters and stories that have been around for generations, made-to-order to suit their own current world-view. A lot of these heroes had a huge influence on me when I was younger and I really hate seeing them distorted to meet the requirements of some obnoxious fad.





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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Count Zero
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posted on 3-20-2017 at 01:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I thought "white males" were the loudest voices on the internet? The people screaming about how adding diversity is a bad thing, and then doxxing people because they don't like "wimmin and foreigners" to be added to stories written by white guys, for white guys, and about white guys.

I'm not trolling; I'm not defending SJWs either. I just think it's very trendy right now to throw the letters "SJW" around, and blame them for having discussions/opinions that we couldn't have 30+ years ago because some people didn't have a seat at the table. Comic books as we know them were created by predominantly white, jewish males, because they wanted paying jobs. They sold fantasies to people who could afford to buy them, and generally those people wanted to read about people like themselves. Now that people of various races & backgrounds can afford to buy and are reading comics, they want to read about people like themselves too. The world is a diverse place, and the world depicted by the comics ought to be too.

I don't, however, think we need to turn Iron Man into a teenaged african-american female. But the problem is that comic book companies (the Big Two, at least) don't want to throw away years of branding in order to make New Heroes, unless it can be demonstratably proven that it will make more money. I was =really= upset when Ted Kord was killed for a storyline (DC's Infinite Crisis, fyi).. I was =really= entertained by Jaime Reyes as the New Blue Beetle. The "brand" was passed to a new generation of hero, and new stories were told around his life. The character got its own comic for the first time in a decade, and said comic sold relatively well.

Given that the Iron Fist is a mantle that passes from Immortal Weapon to Immortal Weapon, and that the comics have even explored other holders of the title, it would've been possible for them to have THIS Iron Fist be Not-Danny Rand. Perhaps the successor to Danny, for example, but then it doesn't fit into the Defenders "brand" as neatly. Oh, wait, Danny Rand-Fist wasn't a of The Defenders until 2011, at which point Luke Cage was -NOT- a Defender anymore. The upcoming show ought to be called Heroes For Hire, but that's a whole other brand, and one that sounds more mercenary instead of street-level heroic.

To summarize: Comic books (and the movies/tvshows/videogames based on them) stick to continuity when it makes them money, and throw away continuity when it makes them money. That's pretty much the only rule they seem to adhere to.

(ETFixSpellingOf"Jaime" & clarify IF's tie to Defenders)

[Edited on 3-20-2017 by Count Zero]

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Flash
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posted on 3-20-2017 at 05:37 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Just to throw it out there Ed Brubaker (and I think Matt Fraction's) run on Iron Fist about 10 years ago give or take did very much deal with past Iron Fists, and explore the mythology a bit more.

As far as diversity in storytelling goes I'm all for it, I just think some of the outlets being targeted are in some ways the more worthless of the entities... I mean does anyone really give a shit about the Oscars? I don't know... don't get me wrong, there is a problem there, but a movie like Get out is 10x more the answer than a movie like Moonlight is... I dig Idris Elba as the Gunslinger because he's a hell of an actor first, and a black guy second in my mind...

In the comics I have a big problem with them re-imaging characters as being something different not because I have a problem with gay, or black, or Hispanic characters but because how they go about it more often than not is generally emblematic of a lack of creativity more than it is a bold step... Miles Morales is a great character, making Iceman, Colossus, or a third string green lantern on an alternate Earth gay is a short cut and I think at times a disservice to the decades that went into building those characters... I want to see non-white or gay characters, I just want them to be their own creative and exciting entities where their race, or orientation is secondary to them being great characters in interesting stories.

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First 9
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posted on 3-21-2017 at 10:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I really don't mind changing races, sexes, and orientations for character reimaginings. I mean the whole point of a character reimagining is that you hit a ceiling with everything you could do with the character so you need to start over. Why start over again with the same play set?

Do comic books pander? Well, yeah they're desperate for sales to go up again. Just look at ridiculous twists like Captain America, Secret Hydra Agent. They're taking any shortcut available and when you got a vocal group who make it sound like they'd support you if they were better represented, incompetent executives are going to trip over themselves trying to get their attention. It's not the minorities fault that some companies try to appeal to them in the most obnoxious way possible. Same with movie execs.

Anyway on Iron Fist, yeah too many bad reviews to bother checking it out. I didn't care for Luke Cage, Jessica Jones started strong but when flaccid around episode 9 so at this point I'm hoping the Daredevil crew gets full control of the Defenders series and can keep up the quality of DD the other Netflix shows haven't quite matched.

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 3-23-2017 at 03:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
New Iron Fist comic looks good:

http://viewcomic.com/iron-fist-v5-001-2017/





You know, everyone says it's not supposed to make sense, like that's the whole point, dude. And I'm just saying, you know, that's like an excuse for lazy storytelling. Just don't sell me shite and tell me it's gold, all right? I might be stoned, but I'm not high. You know what I mean?
- Cassidy from Preacher, commenting on The Big Lebowski and/or professional wrestling

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