The Online Onslaught Forums


By contributing to Online Onslaught, you'll help make sure we're around for years to come. Toss us as little as a few bucks, or as much as your generosity allows. Thanks!

Last active: Never Not logged in [Login ]

Printable Version |
Subscribe | Add to Favorites
New Topic New Poll New Reply
Author: Subject: 15 Years since the WCW Invasion.
Flash
The Immortal One






Posts 4552
Registered 4-22-2005
Location Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 10-25-2016 at 03:52 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
15 Years since the WCW Invasion.

Been binging through some 2001 Raw's lately, and holy shit, it's been 15 years since the WWE bought WCW and we got the Invasion.

Firstly, it's mind boggling to me just how much time has gone by, and secondly it's just baffling how badly the WWE messed this up. I know there's been a number of __________ re-books the Invasion- but I found those more often than not kind of veered into pure fantasy booking and included many WCW alumni that they didn't legit have access to (Nash, Hall, Hogan, Goldberg... etch)

Anyway, I'm at the Raw where they do the big ECW reveal (which I remember being cool), but here are some of my own observations:

*DDP was gold... he was such a creepy heel, but making him a bit too much of a cowardly heel that outside of some hit and run attacks on the Undertaker he was beaten down far too much. DDP could have, and should have been the top heel in the group.

*Booker T was a solid face, and it's clear that they knew they had something good with him... I don't know that he would have fit well as a heel in WCW (although King Booker years later would prove that he did have some heel chops), but they should have found a more prominent role for him... maybe brought him in on his own, and teased him as the WCW mole for a bit or something.

*They fast played everything... The WCW attacks should have been spaced out a bit more, rushing into an Invasion PPV a month in was weak... Hell Undertaker's then wife Sarah was more over than most of WCW talent was.. which is a shame as there was talent there, they just needed to develop it a bit more. Even the whole "mole" in the WWE thing was rushed over an episode or two, and could have been something that would have turned into a bigger shock.

*Benoit getting hurt probably hurt the angle... Benoit was in the WWE for a year and a bit by this time, but was crazy over... he would have made a great #2 or #1-B heel if you revealed him as the mole.

*Trying to present a WCW match was a mistake... Buff vs Booker wasn't a great match, but it just kind of confused the whole thing.... they were trying to take over part of Vince's show, but Vince was still going to put on the show...? Shame, because the Invasion could have been a great way to do the brand split that came about a year later, and if the Invasion was played out a bit slower they could have added bigger names down the line (The NWO was in the WWE less than a year later), and made the Brand split a bigger deal.

*The Heel-Face alignment was all messed up... Angle and Austin dominated the top of the WWE and were both heels, Rock was off filming a movie, Edge was in the midst of breaking up with Christian, and Jericho was really your only top face (well there was Taker, but between his more solo feud with DDP and tagging with Kane he was kind of off on his own)... and Y2J was teasing winning the title and taking it to WCW! Meanwhile Shane was crazy over and they kept teasing a face turn for him, and Booker was getting face pops... the rest were pretty nameless.... and yet the tone of the show was that WWF talent were faces, and WCW heels. What also made it worse that was half the WWE roster that were the "WWF loyalists" had wrestled in WCW at some point... hell Farooq was a former WCW champion!

*McMahon's dominated too much... they made sense to be there to an extent, but they were far too front and centre and took the spotlight off of developing other heels.

It's a shame as the WWF was firing on all cylinders at this point and the shows had a great mix of comedy (Regal and Tajiri were awesome) and weekly action... that HHH/Austin vs Y2J/Benoit match was just awesome, one of the few Benoit matches that I didn't fast forward through... plenty of other great main events in this stretch, maybe one of the strongest tag divisions in forever, lower card guys getting plenty of TV time... but for whatever reason... call it Vince's ego, long term plans going off the tracks when WCW dropped in their laps, or some of the WCW guys they landed not being up to snuff the Invasion will go down as maybe one of the biggest could have been moments in wrestling history.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
nOOb
The Man






Posts 7333
Registered 5-24-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: Hot Dog!

posted on 10-29-2016 at 03:05 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The Invasion never had a real shot at being good because Vince's only reason for buying them was ego. I remember it's and pieces of it but all anyone needs to remember is the culmination of the entire Invasion was a showdown between the WWF's Rock vs Team WCW's Stone Cold Steve Austin that WWF won, followed by Lillian Garcia announcing that the winner of the Invasion was the WWF, at which point Vince came out to celebrate by himself.

Thinking about it just makes me sad. WCW barely won and, when they did, it was usually Austin or Angle. Or Test. I remember watching the late night show a bit after ECW showed up and, in the only match I actually remember Tommy Dreamer having, he lost to Hardcore Holly. Hardcore Holly. A week after showing up. On the throwaway show.

Even RVD seemed wasted. His arrival was a surprise, everyone seemed to be super-hyped for him, he had opportunities to break away from the Alliance and become one of the top guys in the entire organization, but nope: at the end of the day he was just a henchman.

I guess, if anything, at least Vince got his ego boost out of the way before the important people showed up. I just dread more than anything how that would have looked if Triple H were healthy since he was just starting to bury guys about then.

[Edited on 10-29-2016 by nOOb]





"The Seahawks are cool. Me and Tubby here hung out with them once at a Bruno Mars concert."-Jay and Silent Bob representing the Broncos on FOX NFL Sunday.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
Flash
The Immortal One






Posts 4552
Registered 4-22-2005
Location Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 10-29-2016 at 08:19 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm further along in things now... just about to watch Unforgiven 2001; and the more that I watch the more I realize that WCW dropped into Vince's lap and he didn't know what to do with it.

Probably the single biggest problem was that the Invasion was ill defined... even when it stopped being a WCW thing and became The Alliance it was kind of a mess of our guys are better than your guys, and then just a bunch of matches where they tried their best to pigeon hole guys into roles that they just weren't suited to... RVD is probably the best example of this, and the flip flopping of certain guys kind of hurt as well.

The thing of it is though; the last several weeks of TV have been pretty good... plenty of big moments, some great feuds, and the quality of TV matches was off the charts... it's just that it was all thrown under this invasion banner that kind of adds an unneeded burden to everything.

I'd encourage people to re-watch this stretch... from maybe WM 17 onwards, as the quality is definitely there, and maybe it's time to judge that era for what it was, instead of what it probably never was going to be.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be






Posts 12618
Registered 6-25-2002
Location Sunny Seattle, WA
Member Is Offline

Mood: FICKLE!

posted on 10-31-2016 at 02:05 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I'm further along in things now... just about to watch Unforgiven 2001; and the more that I watch the more I realize that WCW dropped into Vince's lap and he didn't know what to do with it.



I very much agree with this. Also they should have not made most of the ECW guys look like ass.

[Edited on 10-31-2016 by salmonjunkie]

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   salmonjunkie 's Aim   salmonjunkie 's Yahoo
Flash
The Immortal One






Posts 4552
Registered 4-22-2005
Location Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-1-2016 at 01:22 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
ECW- who?

Honestly; outside of that first week or two, and the big moment when ECW turned ECW really wasn't anything in this story... the exceptions being:

*The Dudley's were already 2 years into the WWE by this point give or take; they started as part of the Alliance, but kind of like DDP by the end they were just kind of shunted over to the side... not so much forgotten, but more forgotten as part of the whole Alliance story arc.

*Tajiri was just awesome, but once they decided to flip Regal over to the Alliance his push kind of stalled.

*RVD was a mega star... honestly I can't remember someone getting such a quick ride to a title shot before or since.

*Tazz was definitely the poster child for ECW being buried and forgotten... maybe 3 times now he's been just completely punked out by Austin, but still comes off like the loyal lap dog. Don't get me wrong, Austin vs Angle was definitely the bigger feud, but a Raw match between Austin and Tazz where even if Tazz had of lost could have spring boarded him into a lower-mid card push of some kind... instead he wound up pulling Maven duty by the end.

Otherwise I think Tommy Dreamer was the only other pure ECW guy, but I can't remember him getting one line or match through the whole Invasion arc thus far.

Really though; ECW might just be fairing better than WCW did... as DDP was phased out via a Taker beat down only to come back a week or two later with the positively Page self help guru bit. Lance Storm got a decent start, but seemed to get shifted over, and eventually eclipsed by the Hurricane and Mighty Molly's push. Booker got a sustained push, and was probably the #3 guy behind Austin and RVD... but I think we are maybe 3 PPV in and Kidman just got his first line?

Still... RVD vs Angle, RVD vs Rock, Jericho vs Booker T, Y2J vs Austin, Shane vs Jericho... there was a lot of really good free TV matches through this stretch, so for as disappointing as WCW's last stand was, there were quite a few gems for feuds and free matches throughout the whole angle.

Still, it's hilarious to think that Vince brought back the Rock (he was suspended post WM so he could go film Scorpion king) to fight the WCW alliance, but then brought in the NWO a few months later to ultimately fight the Rock.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
denverpunk
The Great One






Posts 3051
Registered 6-27-2007
Location Mile-Hi
Member Is Offline

Mood: Stoked

posted on 11-4-2016 at 07:11 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So much potential, so much bullshit. I was at the Atlanta RAW where ECW joined with the WCW, and the crowd was going absolutely bananas over it. The buzz was amazing, but the warning signs were already there - Steph and Shane, and nothing good ever really comes out of that. It was doomed to fail then, because the focus was then on the family dynamic. Also, I think they flipped Austin too soon. The Alliance should have stretcher jobbed him out early to make them a real threat, and he could have joined them later. Turns have happened for stupider reasons, and once he joined them, the focus was on him, the most over wrestler in history. How the hell could anyone else shine? It's a testament to Booker T (the only real star made from the angle) that he was able to break through.

This is all assuming Vince wanted it to work. When they made DDP look like an absolute bitch, I knew there was no hope.

[Edited on 11-4-2016 by denverpunk]

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
salmonjunkie
Best There Is Was or Ever Will Be






Posts 12618
Registered 6-25-2002
Location Sunny Seattle, WA
Member Is Offline

Mood: FICKLE!

posted on 11-4-2016 at 07:58 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
When they made DDP look like an absolute bitch, I knew there was no hope.



This. This. This. He should have been up there with Booker T leading the damn thing pre-Austin turn.

View User's Profile E-Mail User View All Posts By User U2U Member   salmonjunkie 's Aim   salmonjunkie 's Yahoo
Flash
The Immortal One






Posts 4552
Registered 4-22-2005
Location Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline

Mood:

posted on 11-8-2016 at 02:36 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm a bit split on how the WWE could have handled some aspects of the Invasion better.. Shane walking out on WCW TV was an epic moment, and Shane as the owner of WCW worked to an extent. When they added Steph' that's really when it tipped.

In saying that, Flair was in the WWE the night after the Invasion ended, so he would have been a better long term "boss" than Shane would have been. Heyman could have been his ECW Lieutenant, with Booker, DDP, and RVD as your top guys in WCW... RVD could have subbed out as his move set would, and was, too tough to keep him a heel with. The big 3 of the NWO were less than 6 months away that you probably could have gotten them in there sooner if need be...

Meh; repeating myself by this point; but having just watched it 15 years removed from the hype it was not as bad as I think we all remember it being... even for as much as DDP was not presented as a physical match for Taker, he did get plenty of creepy moments to shine... definitely wrestling history's biggest could have been period, but removed from the hype and expectations it was no where near as bad as I think we remember it being.

I remember reading something, and then going back and reaching Raiders of the Lost Ark, and it's fairly true that for as awesome and entertaining Indiana Jones was, his involvement in that particular story had almost no impact whatsoever. Watching this period in the WWE you had a newly heel turned Austin feud with Angle as your top feud, you had Jericho feud with Rock, and several mini-feuds in there like Angle and Shane, and some Taker involvement I'm left with the impression that the WCW Invasion made some noise, but was really just something that they didn't know what to do with and didn't want to overly change their plans that they had in place already.

Moving on from the Invasion I just passed the whole Vince vs Flair at the Royal Rumble (not a bad, in not extremely bloody, entertainment type match) and Vince has now threatened to involve the NWO in the WWF... it's funny as they really seemed to be starting to ramp up the Austin vs McMahon, and Austin allying with FLair moments... really getting the vibe that it was Austin vs Hogan that they were shooting for at Wrestlemania, but either due to some backstage politicking (ie, Hogan probably didn't want to job to Austin), or Vince deciding that Rock had the brighter future, getting the sense that Austin probably had some grounds for feeling like facing Hall in a mid-card match was a major league consolation prize.

View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member
First 9
The Great One






Posts 3958
Registered 1-22-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Doing the Emma Dance

posted on 11-10-2016 at 04:06 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So many rumors and stories about this era. Vince apparently fucking up the angle because he had planned on waiting out the contracts of the bigger WCW names but rushed it when HHH and Benoit got injured. DDP did have the writer's support but personal misunderstandings with Taker being what fucked his push. Some WWF guys legitimately not wanting to lose to the ''outsiders''.
View User's Profile View All Posts By User U2U Member

New Topic New Poll New Reply


go to top


Powered by XMB 1.8 Partagium Final SP1
Developed By Aventure Media & The XMB Group
Processed in 0.0893710 seconds, 21 queries