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Author: Subject: OO Universe's homage to the next President of the USoA
merc
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posted on 11-26-2015 at 01:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
OO Universe's homage to the next President of the USoA

Seems like we should start intelligent discussions around candidates who can change the world. Here's my long shot favorite.






http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-25/vermin-supreme-us-presidential-candidate-promises-free-ponies/6972628

He filed today.





[Edited on 11-26-2015 by merc]

[Edited on 11-22-2016 by merc]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 11-26-2015 at 02:18 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
From a Canadian perspective NYC Pizza Rat and Deeze Nuts would make the best POTUS. The actual real candidates are all such uniform pieces of shit that a win by any of them would be a disappointment. Or, in the case of Carson or Trump, something that would move the hands on the nuclear war doomsday clock to about 30 seconds from eternal midnight.





They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I won't allow them.
- David-8

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merc
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posted on 1-27-2016 at 02:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Ok, I vote primary in less than a month. THE RICK ranted in today's Raw recap about the evil right wing.

Here's who's leading the lying former First Lady in my State on the other side.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511

Radicalism on either side is problematic. Sadly, the left has offered no centrists and the right's offerings are being out yelled by extremists.

EDIT: To clarify "lying First Lady". Simply put Hillary used a visit to the Middle East to claim bravery...taking a lesson from John Kerry. While I'm not an NRA supported and thinks this gentleman leans a little towards crazy his point is spot on and documented. I struggle to understand why anyone could see her as Leader of the free world...if the United States can still lay claim to that title.

https://youtu.be/kmClWHVU82g


[Edited on 1-27-2016 by merc]

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OOMike
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posted on 1-27-2016 at 01:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
Ok, I vote primary in less than a month. THE RICK ranted in today's Raw recap about the evil right wing.

Here's who's leading the lying former First Lady in my State on the other side.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/price-tag-of-bernie-sanders-proposals-18-trillion-1442271511

Radicalism on either side is problematic. Sadly, the left has offered no centrists and the right's offerings are being out yelled by extremists.

EDIT: To clarify "lying First Lady". Simply put Hillary used a visit to the Middle East to claim bravery...taking a lesson from John Kerry. While I'm not an NRA supported and thinks this gentleman leans a little towards crazy his point is spot on and documented. I struggle to understand why anyone could see her as Leader of the free world...if the United States can still lay claim to that title.

https://youtu.be/kmClWHVU82g


[Edited on 1-27-2016 by merc]


Hillary is the most centrist candidate of the top four. That says so much about the state of current politics





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic – Tryon Edwards

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denverpunk
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posted on 1-27-2016 at 05:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Bernie's the only one who has talked mainly about the economy rather than other issues to rile up people, so that attracts me. At the same time, I have trouble imagining him as president.

Hillary probably has the best chance to win, but has a LOT of skeletons in that closet. Already has huge opposition from Republicans, so I question if she could actually get anything done as president.

Trump just wants to win, at anything. I don't think he believes half the things he says - riling up the far right is his chance to win, so that's what he's doing shamelessly (and in my opinion, harmfully). If he actually won, I'm not sure he would really want to be president.

Ted Cruz can go die.

[Edited on 1-27-2016 by denverpunk]

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Cherokee Jack
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posted on 1-27-2016 at 07:48 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Yeah, the only way Hillary could POSSIBLY be considered "radical left" is relative to the right wing of the Republican Party and the clown car they've sent up to the stage this year. Over the last several decades the American political spectrum has been dragged so far to the right that what was once liberal is now centrist, and what was once centrist is now "moderately conservative."

Hell, just look at the patron saint of the Republicans, Ronald Reagan. GOP candidates love to talk about how great he was and how they're just like him. If Ronald Reagan was running for president right now, and ran on a platform of the things he actually did as president, he'd be polling at 0.2% and getting laughed/booed off the stage.





I'm Cherokee Jack!

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 1-27-2016 at 07:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
Bernie's the only one who has talked mainly about the economy rather than other issues to rile up people, so that attracts me. At the same time, I have trouble imagining him as president.

Hillary probably has the best chance to win, but has a LOT of skeletons in that closet. Already has huge opposition from Republicans, so I question if she could actually get anything done as president.




That's the huge issue facing America at the moment. It's hard for ANY president on the left to get anything done. A lot of power lies with congress, which is historically controlled by the right. And they made it their goal, and stated clearly, that their main goal was to cause trouble for Obama. And these people STILL have lots of support.

As for Bernie vs Hillary...one is a known liar, one is a liar in a friendly grandpa costume. And the idea of "if Bernie doesn't get nominated, I'm not voting" that is coming up a lot is...absurd. But as pointed out many times, this election cycle is fully embracing the radicals, focusing on a few things, and ignoring things that don't help your cause.

It'd be super funny if it wasn't important.

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merc
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posted on 1-27-2016 at 11:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Bernie talking economy is like an arsonist talking fires. He wants it bigger in a bad way.

There was an interesting article on Walmart this week and the impact of their VOLUNTARY increase of their entry wage. I was shocked to see the net profit margin is 3.3%. If I were a shareholder, I would sell. Labor is a retailers second biggest cost. The increase will likely eat up .75-1.2% of expense, or cut earnings by 30%.

OOMike, my Ohio friend, you present a tallest midget statement for comfort? Is it that bad...

I'm a Libertarion at heart. Smaller government, more personal freedom. The big 4 ( and Rubio) all scare me.

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OORick
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 04:00 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
Ok, I vote primary in less than a month. THE RICK ranted in today's Raw recap about the evil right wing.


I actually tried to avoid any overt vitriol towards reasonably mainstream republicanism. I was trying to do my best to decimate the very stupid, not the right.

It's not my fault if the very stupid just tend to lean that way. ZING~!

Kidding. More seriously, I did try to limit my focus for a reason: in addition to brain-bending fact that some horrible human beings actually saw those endorsement by Duck Dynasty and Palin, AND THOUGHT THEY WERE GOOD THINGS, I saw something else happen in the previous week that caught me by surprise.... the fact that, out of nowhere, Trump and Cruz started getting lambasted by their own. Not just the behind-the-scenes grumbling that I know has existed since late last summer, but full on smear pieces by the carefully orchestrated conservative media outlets.

I thought that if I framed my (legitimate) outrage the way I did, I might tease out some kind of response from the non-Tea-Party crowd who now seem to share much of my confusion and terror over what the hell is happening. I was genuinely curious to see what might come of some debate and discourse, because I'd like to know just how far "centrist" this might actually push "mainstream republicans," or if it's just an intellectually dishonest ploy to say, "Hey, look at us, we're TOTALLY normal and like you, because we're not racist and don't want to commit murder on the streets of New York City just to prove we can get away with it. See: JUST LIKE YOU, it's OK to vote for us," (when, in reality, they're still pretty much stuck on all the same policies that have driven the entire party so far to the right of center that they'll always have a hard time winning a national election).

Unfortunately, even my carefully framed rant only got me about 3 emails about the non-wrestling parts of the recap. One in full support, one telling me to shut the hell up because I'm just part of the liberal intellectual elite, and one that just claimed to feel sorry for me and promised to pray for my eternal soul since I'm clearly a hate-filled godless heathen. Whee.

FWIW, I actually consider libertarianism and what Bernie Sanders is bringing to the table to be the opposite sides of the same coin. In a perfect world, where all else is equal and there are no other concerns or considerations that require our attention, they are two noble ideals to which government could aspire. If everybody is truly equal and comfortably well-to-do, with no outside/international forces at work, no biases with regards to gender/race/lifestyle, and all that..... then hell, yeah, you can have the debate over libertarianism (everything's fair and great, so everybody should just get to take care of themselves) or a modified democratic/western socialism (everything's great, but if we all pay equally into the system, then we can all have even nicer things).

Sadly, all things are not equal and our society is far from ideal, so we have tons of real-life concerns and considerations that make both those extremes untenable if they were put into practice.



Rick

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janerd75
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 07:23 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If we "all" pay "equally" into "the system". What mean "we" KimOOsabe? Lulz. I ain't takin' no CommieNazi advice from that shifty hardcore leftist The Rick for one very explicit reason he mentioned in his profile. How some of you sheeplemmings missed his Bill Ayers worship/Saul Alinsky Rules For Radicalz/toss all Tea Partiers-Repubs-Conservatives into FEMA camps and then torch the fuckers morsel of hatred I shall never guess. Perhaps some of you mooks can pick out the relevant error in the Monday RAW recap exposing his subversive leanings that I, as clearly the most reasonable member of this bOOard, have provided for your perusal before he memory holes the damn thing deeper than Hillary's server or Bill's cigar. Behold, The Rick's undoing!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------
OO RAW RECAP January 25, 2016

Backstage: Joey Jo Jo Shabadoo Jr. catches up to Roman Reigns, and actually recites some of Vince's "WHAT?"-induced drivel from earlier (it was bad and stilted the first time, it was no better the second time around), and asks for Roman's thoughts about how he's supposedly "broken." Predictably, Roman disagrees with Vince's theory, and says he'll be proving his point later tonight. Whee.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------

Tell me you all see that, right? Hiding in plain sight, for all the wOOrld to see amongst his Patriot-bashing hate speech, is a slight of hand ever so subtly and artfully obscured within a reference to the wrecked angle with Roman Reigns and yet is so diabolical it boggles the mind as to why none of you have yet called him out on it to answer for his crimes. And now, the damning evidence:



Do you know what subversive means, The Rick? Well, I still don't but I'm almost certain it has to do with dudes that are sexually attracted to submarines, though I did hear it in reference to 'The Simpsons' a bunch of times. Ultimately, I think it has to do with Homer either misunderstanding a situation or mispronouncing something and that usually contrasts with what is normally heard, understood, or expected by others, thus causing what I like to call "Comedic Friction Subverting Expected Social Norms For The Sake of High Comedy". Now, in the video yOOu all can clearly hear Homer say, "Joey Joe Joe Junior....Shabadoo, which is absolutely critical in the execution of the joke, moreso than the billions-to-one chance that the actual Joey is sitting across from him. The humor clearly lies in Homer's attempt at a made up name that is all the more ridiculous given that in his attempt to pass a fake name off to Moe, he disregards the standard order in which Western names are generally assigned. In willfully and maliciously changing the naming order, Mr. The Rick subtly attempts to interject his own form of submarine lovin' and foist his own distorted views on the rest of us. What's next, Scaia? A black Gunslinger?

Ahhhh, threadshitting. One of my favorite hobbies of everyone's. Okay all you "No, it's that side what done it.", "No, it's THAT side what done it!", listen up. This is why we can't have nice things. Shit's hitting and it's aboot to rain really hard on the just and unjust alike. Decades upon decades of social engineering and the brilliance of "our" education system have left large swaths of the greedy stupid roaming the earth. Ain't just here, but since we're the Awesomest, we get the stink eye from the rest of the envious herd because we banged the cheerleader, her hot slightly underage sister, their Mom, all while eating the fattiest foods available and we just won't shut up about it. Fine, comeuppance is upon us soon world, so don't worry. Until you need someone to bail you out, that is.

Regardless, my recommendation to y'alls is to quit bitchin' and get in the kitchen. No, seriously, that's where you can learn to can food or talk to your family about emergency preparedness. Even if I'm wrong (which I am not) it won't hurt to be "ready". So get yourself some books on dollar hyperinflation and home gardening. Maybe buy some cheap (for now) long term storage food, maybe some cheap (for now) metals, maybe just maybe don't fixate or rely on some fuckstick politician magically healing the earth once they're in office. And for Christ's Holy sake, will the lot of you stop being a bunch of pearl clutching dandies about ZOMG! guns and at least go pick yourself up a shotgun or do I need to risk me and mine to shout it from the rooftops from a megaphone where the black helicopters will have me scoped and dialed in? Unless, of course, you actually believe "it'll never happen to me" or a politician has yours and society's best interests at heart when it comes to "gun control". Just go do it and you'll thank Janerd later...provided the grid is still up, of course. Self-sufficiency is the name of the game, kiddos. And no, you're not allowed to get in stand-offs at your compound with local and state P.D. or the Feds. Bonus Advice: You ever hear one of them yell, "STOP RESISTING!" in your general direction, immediately locate the section of ass on your person near your butthole you'd like to give a farewell kiss to.

TL;DR Janerd: Yanking The Rick's Nutz and Giving You a Reason Not to Worry About the Election Because It's Too Far Gone. All of It.

In conclusion:



For Your Troubles and 'Nerd Bless America:





"Modified democratic/western socialism" LOLZ!!! So wait, you're a Donald Trump Guy?





Janny 11:19 says I JUST ATE YOUR ASS

Catch-As-Catch-Can: The Non-Specific Wrestling Thread

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OOMike
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 01:46 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I will repost this site www.isidewith.com

They ask you questions and match up which candidate is closest to your views.

I am a little concerned that I got a 43% match with Donald Trump, to be honest I felt a little dirty.





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic – Tryon Edwards

Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.

The only OO columnist that has never written a column.

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merc
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 05:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Bernie & Libertarians are exact opposites. Here, in language we all appreciate, BEER!, is my simple perspective on economics:

=========================
THE TAX SYSTEM EXPLAINED IN BEER
Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100...
If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7..
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.
So, that's what they decided to do..


The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from every body's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"



"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!"
The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

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merc
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 06:27 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OOMike
I will repost this site www.isidewith.com

They ask you questions and match up which candidate is closest to your views.

I am a little concerned that I got a 43% match with Donald Trump, to be honest I felt a little dirty.


Interesting site. I think there is some bias in how the questions are presented, but overall pretty thorough.
Carley Fiorina 83%
Jeb Bush 78%

Seems about right to me.

[Edited on 1-28-2016 by merc]

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Paddlefoot
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 06:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
If Bernie's domestic policy is a hodge podge of things that will never happen then his foreign policy is even worse. It mainly consists of things like trying to get Iran and Saudi Arabia to be friends because apparently America has a big magic wand that will somehow wipe away about a thousand years of sheer hatred between Shiites and Sunnis. I rightly detest the Tea Party but if Sanders ever won I'll be glad they're around to put the brakes on him in Congress.





They are a dying species, grasping for resurrection. They don't deserve to start again, and I won't allow them.
- David-8

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janerd75
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 07:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
quote:
Originally posted by OOMike
I will repost this site www.isidewith.com

They ask you questions and match up which candidate is closest to your views.

I am a little concerned that I got a 43% match with Donald Trump, to be honest I felt a little dirty.


Interesting site. I think there is some bias in how the questions are presented, but overall pretty thorough.
Carley Fiorina 83%
Jeb Bush 78%

Seems about right to me.



I got 85% Rand Paul, which seems about right in the ballpark for me given the nature of the questions and the algorithm set up to pick your guy (or gal). Though, to Canadian hubby's dismay, Ted the Head came in at 83%. Surprisingly, I was at 51% with Bernie and that was all on immigration issues. (Note for future test takers: they give a breakdown of how close you are to any particular candidate in various categories after you complete the test.)

The only concern I have regarding the accuracy to the test was my 24% for Hillary, which is an approximately Eleventy-billion X Infinity +1 greater percentage than I would have thought.





Janny 11:19 says I JUST ATE YOUR ASS

Catch-As-Catch-Can: The Non-Specific Wrestling Thread

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OOMike
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 07:44 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
See my 43% match to Trump....





2017 where Nazis are defended and being against Fascism is a bad thing.

Prejudices are rarely overcome by argument; not being founded in reason they cannot be destroyed by logic – Tryon Edwards

Never let the facts interfere with a good rant.

The only OO columnist that has never written a column.

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merc
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 09:23 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
If Bernie's domestic policy is a hodge podge of things that will never happen then his foreign policy is even worse. It mainly consists of things like trying to get Iran and Saudi Arabia to be friends because apparently America has a big magic wand that will somehow wipe away about a thousand years of sheer hatred between Shiites and Sunnis. I rightly detest the Tea Party but if Sanders ever won I'll be glad they're around to put the brakes on him in Congress.


I'm not sure where the Tea Party hate comes in. Here's the foundation of the movement, from Wiki, but as I have understood it

"The Tea Party movement is an American political movement known for its conservative positions and its role in the Republican Party. Members of the movement have called for a reduction of the U.S. national debt and federal budget deficit by reducing government spending, and for lower taxes. The movement opposes government-sponsored universal healthcare and has been described as a mixture of libertarian, populist, and conservative activists. It has sponsored multiple protests and supported various political candidates since 2009.
The movement began following Barack Obama's first presidential inauguration (in January 2009) when his administration announced plans to give financial aid to bankrupt homeowners. Following calls by Rick Santelli for a "tea party" by Chicago bond-dealers, conservative groups coalesced around the idea of protesting against Obama's agenda and a series of protests took place, including the 2009 Taxpayer March on Washington. Supporters of the movement subsequently had a major impact on the internal politics of the Republican Party.
The movement's name refers to the Boston Tea Party of December 16, 1773, a watershed moment in the American struggle for independence from Great Britain. The original Tea Party protesters demonstrated against taxation by the British without political representation for the American colonists, and references to the Boston Tea Party occurred in Tax Day protests held in the 1990s …
…The Tea Party has generally sought to avoid placing too much emphasis on traditional conservative social issues. National Tea Party organizations, such as the Tea Party Patriots and FreedomWorks, have expressed concern that engaging in social issues would be divisive. Instead, they have sought to have activists focus their efforts away from social issues and focus on economic and limited government issues."

emphasis added by me. Those on either side of the aisle that have been ineffective (R) in controlling spending or (D) in favor of bigger government thru regulations &/or programs or just socialists have sought to marginalize and demonize the original efforts. Also impacting the original focus are those that jumped on board and then brought forth their social agenda as part of the movement.. Fuck them. You won't find consistency in social agendas in Tea Party folks.

Those that paint with a broad brush, not knowing the true "Tea Party" goals, do unintentional damage to the effort. Hopefully, this helps those that are here refocus their animosity.

Or you just want more debt for future generations and higher taxes today.

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Quentil
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posted on 1-28-2016 at 10:15 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The Tea Party is a movement that started in an attempt to split moderate voters away from the Democrat party. Funded by billionaire Republican establishment icons, it uses fear and ignorance, coupled with a plethora of outright lies in order to scare white, middle class Americans with the threat of women and minorities taking their jobs and selling them to China. In pretending to be a third party of a sort, and with the backing of mostly high school dropouts who feel they should have to pay no taxes and who are against welfare (even though they tend to already pay no taxes and collect far more government subsidy dollars than the "blue states"), the Tea Party has brought back the racism and hatred that was mostly dormant in the Republican party.

Using gerrymandered districts, newly restrictive voting requirements that target the liberal minorities, and the threat and fear of anyone pointing out their shameless tactics and lies as simply being part of the "liberal establishment", these poor/middle-class white folks are being duped into giving the richest 1% everything they could ever want. In destroying hopes for green energy, universal health care, and diplomacy over war, they push for the rights to openly carry machine guns in church, to outlaw equal rights for people who aren't white Christians, and to roll back everything the government has done since the Civil War.

An America under the Tea Party would be dirty, polluted, and full of minorities in prison (even moreso than already exists), with the standards of education, the environment, and overall happiness and living declining for everyone who isn't a coal billionaire, or the brother of one.

In using hate, lies, and outright Hitleresque tactics, the Tea Party has become the biggest threat to American way of life in the modern era. While I've plenty of issues with the fringe left as well, at least the Bernie Sanders types seemingly mean well. The Tea Party folks are simply tools for bigots who want to bring back slavery and carpet bomb as many brown people as possible in the name of freedom.

An America under Donald Trump would created trillions in debt, shoot unemployment through the roof, roll back efforts to reduce spending, and essentially hand over national parks to big businesses to cut up and sell off as they saw fit. It would alienate our allies, created discord at home with open persecution of non-white males, and all the while those same gun-toting ignorant assholes would still be blaming the "liberal establishment" even as mountains of evidence said otherwise.

Imagine how terrible things were under the last Bush. Then multiply it by a thousand. Do you really want that America? If you say "yes" then you're part of the problem. The Tea Party should be seen as the fascist hate-mongers that they are. Hateful, rascist, intolerant middle-aged white folks who want to believe they can go back to controlling everything for the benefit of a couple rich folks.


[Edited on 1-28-2016 by Quentil]

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Columbo
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 02:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I got 96% Bernie Sanders I'm a filthy hippie.





"The North Cafeteria, named after Admiral William North, is located in the western portion of East Hall, gateway to the western half of North Hall, which is named, not after William North, but for its position above the South Wall. It is the most contested and confusing battlefield on Greendale’s campus, next to the English Memorial Spanish Center, named after English Memorial, a Portuguese sailor that discovered Greendale while looking for a fountain that cured syphilis."

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chretienbabacool
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 04:38 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Libertarianism is a support of abdication of any personal responsibility of how our actions affect other people around us. It is only for "personal freedom" if we all lived in plastic bubbles where everything we did only affected us and in my mind it is the least intellectually honest of all the ideologies in the US. At least people like Huckabee tell you how much they hate anyone different. Libertarians will tell you they support everyone having an equal opportunity to make it because "freedom" while pointedly not telling you it's all a crock full of crap and very real barriers that are not your doing which have nothing to do with the government prevent that from happening.

Government run health care in basically every western country in the world works very well and far, far better than the capitalist crap the US conservatives have tried to push down our throats all while spending less money on health care. Libertarians don't tell you how much reduction of government actually costs people in very real ways. They don't tell you that other countries have a much more productive work force all while having more government regulations of the work day.

Single payer health care would end up saving people a crap ton of money but of course it will never get done here because intellectually dishonest people backed by a lazy media point to initial costs while refusing to focus on all the savings that happen in the long term when an organized individual entity is allowed to negotiate with all the various insurance companies as opposed to the absolute disorganized disaster that we have allowed in this country. I have actual experience with the French health care system and it is basically a beacon of light compared to the monstrosity in this country. But libertarians under the guise of personal freedom want the majority of people to have to fight on their own to get any semblance of fairness against multiple faceless organizations that could care less about the individual.





Go Cubs!

And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?

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merc
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 04:38 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quentil
The Tea Party is a movement that started in an attempt to split moderate voters away from the Democrat party. Funded by billionaire Republican establishment icons, it uses fear and ignorance, coupled with a plethora of outright lies in order to scare white, middle class Americans with the threat of women and minorities taking their jobs and selling them to China. In pretending to be a third party of a sort, and with the backing of mostly high school dropouts who feel they should have to pay no taxes and who are against welfare (even though they tend to already pay no taxes and collect far more government subsidy dollars than the "blue states"), the Tea Party has brought back the racism and hatred that was mostly dormant in the Republican party.

Using gerrymandered districts, newly restrictive voting requirements that target the liberal minorities, and the threat and fear of anyone pointing out their shameless tactics and lies as simply being part of the "liberal establishment", these poor/middle-class white folks are being duped into giving the richest 1% everything they could ever want. In destroying hopes for green energy, universal health care, and diplomacy over war, they push for the rights to openly carry machine guns in church, to outlaw equal rights for people who aren't white Christians, and to roll back everything the government has done since the Civil War.

An America under the Tea Party would be dirty, polluted, and full of minorities in prison (even moreso than already exists), with the standards of education, the environment, and overall happiness and living declining for everyone who isn't a coal billionaire, or the brother of one.

In using hate, lies, and outright Hitleresque tactics, the Tea Party has become the biggest threat to American way of life in the modern era. While I've plenty of issues with the fringe left as well, at least the Bernie Sanders types seemingly mean well. The Tea Party folks are simply tools for bigots who want to bring back slavery and carpet bomb as many brown people as possible in the name of freedom.

An America under Donald Trump would created trillions in debt, shoot unemployment through the roof, roll back efforts to reduce spending, and essentially hand over national parks to big businesses to cut up and sell off as they saw fit. It would alienate our allies, created discord at home with open persecution of non-white males, and all the while those same gun-toting ignorant assholes would still be blaming the "liberal establishment" even as mountains of evidence said otherwise.

Imagine how terrible things were under the last Bush. Then multiply it by a thousand. Do you really want that America? If you say "yes" then you're part of the problem. The Tea Party should be seen as the fascist hate-mongers that they are. Hateful, rascist, intolerant middle-aged white folks who want to believe they can go back to controlling everything for the benefit of a couple rich folks.


[Edited on 1-28-2016 by Quentil]


Funny, I thought I knew the origins of the Tea Party...
I hadn't really considered myself hateful, racist or a fascist. I am disappointed to learn I'm a tool for future slave owners and carpet bombers. I'm really bummed out that I want a planet more polluted and dirty...and I have to go buy an assault rifle before Sunday morning..and I have no relatives in the coal business...and I don't even know what ...never mind.

Dude..really?

I'll give you this. I am very guilty of being a "middle aged white folk" but in my defense, I am in constant denial on aging.


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OORick
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 05:22 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by merc
Bernie & Libertarians are exact opposites.


Just to make sure we're all clear on what I said: they are philosophically opposite in terms of ideology.... but pragmatically, they inhabit the same basic space as "ideas that could really work if everything else is peachy keen, but which would be horrible here in the real world."

As recently as 8 years ago, I periodically threw myself in with libertarians... this was when I had voted for three different parties in my three elections as an adult. After turning 18, my first vote was for Perot in '96, then I went for W in 2000, and after he shat the bed, I had no choice but to go for Kerry in '04. I was a total free agent in '08, and with McCain pulling ahead, I wasn't exactly sure what I would do, since I wasn't a total lefto pinko commie, nor could I remotely defend the republicans record under Bush. "Libertarian" sounded like a nice way to say "I'm kinda in the middle."

But then McCain went hard right, and stopped being the reasonable human being he had been over the past 8 years. He became a puppet/ideologue, indistinguishable from the worst of the Bush White House. He made it worse by adding Palin to his ticket. That forced me to rethink my position before November, and as I looked into what I was, I realized that I could no longer use the label "libertarian" without feeling every bit as guilty as I would being a republican.

CBBC does a nice job of laying out why libertarianism is just not a practical system.... it may not be as outright evil as many republicans are, as they twist the legal and tax systems in their favor... but I realized libertarianism is still very much a "I got mine, Jack" philosophy, with no regard for how all the pieces of a society interact. And the reason why I spent so much time going along with a libertarian label is because I'm a white, male, upper-middle class dude. To me, OF COURSE it would be fine if you just left me alone.

In reality, this represents about 15-20% of Americans, to say nothing of the trainwreck that would happen with regard to foreign policy if a hardcore libertarian was making the choices.

Basically, I got old and wise enough to realize just how terrible libertarianism is, and why anybody over the age of 22 who still thinks Ayn Rand is A Thing should probably get a punch in the face. It's fun to think that way when you're in that bubble; but you have no excuse for choosing to live inside the bubble much past college.

The flip side of that is, after my introspection of '08, I'm also way to old and wise to bother trying to defend Sanders.... most of his wackier stuff is in the same pile as any tea party/libertarian agenda: the "that'd be interesting to talk about, if only there weren't a thousand other, more pressing matters that need to be dealt with before we got implementing your noble idealistic plans" pile.

RE: isidewith.com, I did that a while back, and wasn't a great match with anyone. I was just under 70% with Hillary. For second place, I had Bernie and Kasich in a virtual dead heat around 45%, which pretty much proves that I am truly impervious to your labels!!!

RE: modified western/democratic socialism... I honestly can't remember what it is Bernie calls himself, but I thought if I threw enough modifying adjectives in there, I'd mask the Hitler-y-ness of it. Point is, whatever Bernie is, it is NOT real socialist (although he is a guy who wants to over-apply socialist principles to a system that would remain essentially a capitalist democracy), which just makes all the fucktards who ever called Obama a socialist that much more stupider for doing so. Also, janerd, I thought OO had designated Saturday's as the proper night for Drunk Posting?

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merc
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 06:21 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Wow...

It's amazing how perspective corrupts. I'm also surprised at the under current of anger attached to thoughts.

First off, because things like facts matter. The most recent G7 report on productivity has the US at or near the top of measurements. Here's a link :
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/icp/international-comparisons-of-productivity/2014---first-estimates/rftxl-icp0915.xls

Happy to look at data showing our underperformance.

Second because apparently personal experience matters: I've spent extensive time in the UK, Ireland, France, Germany, Italy, Canada & the USA- all private sector work.- so no military health care options. Except for Germany, I'm flying home for medical care. The only reason I exempt Germany is none of my family (wife, kids) had any real medical problems whilst we were living there, so no real experience. So, US healthcare is better than everywhere else I've lived because well ME.

Finally, perspective. "Single payer healthcare" = Government healthcare be clear, don't hide it.

The reason I oppose it is simple. it is forcing consolidation of companies who provide insurance and care. Less competition means higher prices and waning quality of care. "Forcing" (my word bias) from a free enterprise perspective, merge or liquidate are the choices and liquidate is B.A.D.

A Liberatarian would suggest deregulate, let companies compete across State borders (stupid regulation) and watch what happens to prices. They will fall thru competition. Learn from history- look at the airline industry.

As niche & smaller companies get squeezed out, larger corporations set pricing without fear of competition. That is what is currently happening across the country. ( I read that the number of insurers in my State have gone from low teens to five. ) But those with a different perspective blame "corporate greed". ( btw, That greed ultimately fuels pension plans and 401ks, but I digress.)

There's nothing "personal" in that thinking. I don't want anyone to struggle and have zero desire to wish someone to fuck off and die. To suggest otherwise is further establishing the acidity of society that then becomes a class or racial rift.

So I am admittedly dismissive of both posters who assault Liiberatarian views at the individual level, and ask them to consider the philosophy at a macro level. Let the free market do what it does better than every government/politico can. Set prices that the population can bear and deliver at a level a little better than the competition. That's a Liberatarian view at a macro level that I have been unable to find a better alternative to.

Ok, That's what smaller government means. And as for personal liberties, please let Janerd buy dope, hire hookers, binge watch llama dick porn without fear of government intervention. If I want to carry an assault weapon into 10:00 Mass why can't I? (Not that I would, but someone threw that up as an example of bad. I'd think it's stupid, socially awkward and ripe for ridicule; but not inherently evil).

At the individual level there are douche bags in every political alignment. You don't have to look hard to find them. They usually yell louder, make the most outrageous statements, disregard facts and hurl insults.

Me, I'm going back to fantasy booking, much more fun.

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janerd75
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 08:10 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OORick
Also, janerd, I thought OO had designated Saturday's as the proper night for Drunk Posting?


Shabba-dabba-do, boss.

quote:
Originally posted by merc
And as for personal liberties, please let Janerd buy dope, hire hookers, binge watch llama dick porn without fear of government intervention.


Finally, someone who gets me!

We probably won't solve the world's ills here, dudes. Nor will your or my particular guy once he officially gets the nuclear launch codes. But we all do seem to like heroic archetypes and good triumphing over evil in this silly fake sport that's brought us here. Janerd's advice? Take care of you and yours, be good to you and yours, and do your best to enjoy as much as you can out of life before it's all over because Reigns is going over at Wrestlemaina and there's not a goddamned thing any of us can do about it.





Janny 11:19 says I JUST ATE YOUR ASS

Catch-As-Catch-Can: The Non-Specific Wrestling Thread

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OOMike
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posted on 1-29-2016 at 02:13 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The problem comparing Health Care to any other business (airlines) is that Health Care is not something that you can decide to do without, or most of the time choose your provider.

You want to go on a trip, you can pick your date, method of travel, and which company you want to use.

You get sick, it happens when it happens, you have to go to the hospital, and you usually go to the closest.

quote:

Back in 1970s, the United States looked a lot like other countries when it came to health care spending. In 1980, we spent $1,110 per person on health care, which worked out to about 9.2 percent of Gross Domestic Product. But in the 1980s, health-care costs in the United States began growing much faster than in other countries, rising to $8,402 per person in 2010. That amounts to a total of $2.54 billion spent on health care, or 17.9 percent of our total economy. (Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)


What happened in the 80's? Reagan deregulation.... prices quickly began to outpace inflation.

The problem that people need to understand is that Capitalism is not humane. Capitalism is similar to Libertarianism except instead of leaving the other guy alone, it is screw over the other guy so I can get ahead.

ETA: and let me add that some of those regulations are good, for example I have two sons with Cystic Fibrosis and without the state provided insurance they would have been dead, because no insurance company would cover them to the point that the insurance agent (twenty years ago) told my wife to save the money on health insurance for the funeral. Plus my wife has Type II diabetes and I would not have been able to add her to my insurance due to pre-existing conditions when she left her previous insurance.

[Edited on 1-29-2016 by OOMike]





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