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Author: Subject: The 2014 NFL Draft/Michael Sam thread
Chris Is Good517
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posted on 5-11-2014 at 11:42 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The 2014 NFL Draft/Michael Sam thread

Just throwing this up in case anyone wants to talk about it.

- I know Johnny Manziel is a polarizing guy who people have very strong and different opinions about, but he's got a really decent little offense to play with in Cleveland and I think he's going to do pretty well there. I don't think they're immediate Super Bowl contenders but I can see them competing for a wild card spot this year and I'm not happy at all to play them twice a year anymore. If the draft had "a winner", Cleveland is certainly a candidate for that role.

- Even if Teddy Bridgewater didn't have the kind of question marks around him that caused him to fall to the bottom of the first round in the first place, Minnesota is where QB careers go to die.

- Houston also had a nice little draft and just like that, I think they're contending to win their division again.

- Boy, for all the smoke that gets blown about how even the lowliest third stringer in the SEC is an NFL-ready player, it sure is interesting that last years' SEC Defensive Player of the year Michael Sam fell all the way to the seventh round. I wonder why that could be...?

But seriously, good for the Rams for picking him up. I hope the fans are good to him (Cardinals fans are notoriously horrible people, and I imagine it's a largely overlapping fanbase), I hope he has a good career, and I hope his sexuality is a complete non-issue from here on it, because it shouldn't be one. But the usual gang of dumbfucks are already at it after he kissed his boyfriend on TV after being drafted, with the typical handwringing and cries of "BUT THE CHILDREN SAW THAT!" as if the seventh round of the fucking NFL draft is a real TV hotspot for the kids.





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Columbo
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 12:02 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
Just throwing this up in case anyone wants to talk about it.

- I know Johnny Manziel is a polarizing guy who people have very strong and different opinions about, but he's got a really decent little offense to play with in Cleveland and I think he's going to do pretty well there. I don't think they're immediate Super Bowl contenders but I can see them competing for a wild card spot this year and I'm not happy at all to play them twice a year anymore. If the draft had "a winner", Cleveland is certainly a candidate for that role.

I think not drafting a WR with Josh Gordons impending suspension is pretty damn retarded. That being said I'm glad my Giants don't have to chase Johnny football around twice a year.

- Even if Teddy Bridgewater didn't have the kind of question marks around him that caused him to fall to the bottom of the first round in the first place, Minnesota is where QB careers go to die.

Teddy is gonna do fine I think a couple years from now some of these scouts are going to feel pretty silly for dropping him for a lousy pro day.

- Houston also had a nice little draft and just like that, I think they're contending to win their division again.

Not with Ryan Fitzpatrick as QB.

- Boy, for all the smoke that gets blown about how even the lowliest third stringer in the SEC is an NFL-ready player, it sure is interesting that last years' SEC Defensive Player of the year Michael Sam fell all the way to the seventh round. I wonder why that could be...?

teh gay?

But seriously, good for the Rams for picking him up. I hope the fans are good to him (Cardinals fans are notoriously horrible people, and I imagine it's a largely overlapping fanbase), I hope he has a good career, and I hope his sexuality is a complete non-issue from here on it, because it shouldn't be one. But the usual gang of dumbfucks are already at it after he kissed his boyfriend on TV after being drafted, with the typical handwringing and cries of "BUT THE CHILDREN SAW THAT!" as if the seventh round of the fucking NFL draft is a real TV hotspot for the kids.

Sam seems like a good hardworking dude, but he better show something on special teams cause St. Louis front 7 is probably the best in the NFL.


[Edited on 5-11-2014 by Columbo]





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nOOb
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 12:14 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I get why Michael Sam lasted as long as he did: he had a below average combine followed by a below average pro day. Even before all this gay stuff, his being SEC Player of the Year still only lead to him being projected as a late 3rd/mid 4th round pick. Then he had a below average Combine. Gay or straight, bad combines have knocked guys from the first to the third and fourth rounds in the past.

So the whole gay/straight thing seems to be secondary. He lasted until the seventh round, which is an expected fall for a guy projected in the mid rounds to have after a poor combine. And that's when all this "homophobic coaches/staff" talk started up, because all these defensive ends and tackles went ahead of Sam, hell, a guy from Marist went ahead of Sam. But so what? Very rarely do coaches use the seventh round to grab pieces for the team's future. The seventh round basically exists for either Special Teams coaches to get a guy they think would be a really great Gunner, or for the coaching staff to look at their list of guys they'll be calling to sign as undrafted free agents and say to themselves "Yeah, all these guys seem like they'd be nice value pickups, but THIS guy? This guy is going to have a lot of suitors, and we don't like our chances of getting him. So let's just draft him so we don't have to worry about not getting picked."

Basically, Michael Sam should, and probably does, feel honored that the Rams drafted him. The position he was picked at in the seventh round is irrelevant because it's the seventh round. Getting picked in the seventh round basically means a team didn't want to lose out on signing you as an undrafted free agent. It just sucks for him because you know the media is going to hound Jeff Fisher and his coaching staff from the time Rookie OTA's start up to the end of the preseason, because Sam seems like he's going to start his career as a very average Defensive End. And that will suck for him because he's going to be fighting for a roster spot, and when it comes down to it, a coach is going to take the guy of equal talent as the other guy who has a 24/7 media circus following him around.

And yeah, Teddy Bridgewater is kinda screwed. No one wants to be a Viking. I know: we signed the last face of their defense to a nice little deal a while ago to get our D-Line back up and running.

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williamssl
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 01:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Did anyone get drafted besides Manziel and Sam? Those were the only two.





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denverpunk
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 05:34 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Not that I care about Jacksonville, but drafting Blake Bortles at #3 is pure insanity.
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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 06:04 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
Not that I care about Jacksonville, but drafting Blake Bortles at #3 is pure insanity.


Agree to disagree. Worst case scenario, he's a lateral move from Gabbert. And that's worst case. Best case? He's a significant upgrade, and people start actually buying tickets to the games.





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OOMike
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 12:20 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
Not that I care about Jacksonville, but drafting Blake Bortles at #3 is pure insanity.


Agree to disagree. Worst case scenario, he's a lateral move from Gabbert. And that's worst case. Best case? He's a significant upgrade, and people start actually buying tickets to the games.


Worst case is that it is a lateral move that costs more and takes up a pick that could have been an improvement in other areas.

ETA: Good job by Jerry Jones to rip on his first round draft pick... Stating in an interview that they were trying for the entire 10 minutes to trade back but could not get a match... so in other words we were stuck and had to make a pick.

[Edited on 5-12-2014 by OOMike]





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chretienbabacool
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 03:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
We still talk about Jackie Robinson and think that's a big deal so not sure the problem with Sam being a big deal. It IS and should be celebrated just as much as Jackie.





Go Cubs!

And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?

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OOMike
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 05:26 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by chretienbabacool
We still talk about Jackie Robinson and think that's a big deal so not sure the problem with Sam being a big deal. It IS and should be celebrated just as much as Jackie.


Sorry but I disagree. Is it a big deal? Yes. As big as Jackie? No not even close.

I am positive that there have been gay NFL players before Sam, I am sure there are current players that are gay. I would even be willing to wager that there has even been a pro bowl player that has been gay. Sam has couragiously openly admitted to being gay, which is brave and fantastic, but it is not the level of being the first black baseball player during a time where the country was split on whether blacks allowed to vote or even second class humans. Are there those today that feel that way about gays? Yes but it is no where near as open or as widespread as it was in the 40's.





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chretienbabacool
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posted on 5-12-2014 at 06:44 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by OOMike
quote:
Originally posted by chretienbabacool
We still talk about Jackie Robinson and think that's a big deal so not sure the problem with Sam being a big deal. It IS and should be celebrated just as much as Jackie.


Sorry but I disagree. Is it a big deal? Yes. As big as Jackie? No not even close.

I am positive that there have been gay NFL players before Sam, I am sure there are current players that are gay. I would even be willing to wager that there has even been a pro bowl player that has been gay. Sam has couragiously openly admitted to being gay, which is brave and fantastic, but it is not the level of being the first black baseball player during a time where the country was split on whether blacks allowed to vote or even second class humans. Are there those today that feel that way about gays? Yes but it is no where near as open or as widespread as it was in the 40's.


When I hear 6 people in a job setting last week talking about how they'd beat their kids if they came out as gay gonna have to disagree with you (not to mention liberal use of words like fairies and queers). We still have a long way to go from courts forcing marriage equality onto people vs people actually being accepting of homosexuality. Players hiding they're gay for fear of backlash doesn't count either.

I've been working a lot of construction type jobs recently and people aren't nearly as accepting as you think. Almost all the conversation I've heard about Sam has been negative from coworkers.





Go Cubs!

And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?

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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 5-13-2014 at 01:49 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think that comparing Jackie to Sam is kind of an apples to oranges. This is a difficult topic to properly articulate, but I'm going to try.

Here's the thing: Jackie was never going to be able to hide that he was black. Sam could have hidden being gay. Neither of them should ever have had to worry about either of those things being something to be held against them, but this isn't a perfect world. Sam is a courageous motherfucker for being open and honest about his sexuality, and he deserves all the accolades in the world for coming out instead of taking the easy path like every other current and former gay player has done. Both guys are trailblazers, both broke/are breaking incredibly sad barriers that needed to be broken, both are amazing individuals, but I just think that we're comparing two completely different types of struggles, I guess?

The good news for Sam is that I don't think he's going to have to endure HALF of what Jackie had to. Yes, there will be a few death threats, there will be vicious cat calls from the fans (and thanks to the magic of social media, Sam may get it worse than Jackie did in that department), there will probably even be some initial resentment from teammates. But I think Sam is also going to have a lot of support and acceptance right away that Jackie took years to get.

At any rate, I can't speak for Michael Sam or what he wants or anything, but IF I were him, I'd prefer to be known as "Pro Bowl defensive end Michael Sam" and not "openly gay Michael Sam", and that's what I was trying to get at in my initial post. I guess it'll all depend on if and when other players follow suit and come out.





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chretienbabacool
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posted on 5-13-2014 at 02:15 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
For sure its easier to hide you are gay but its not as easy as that. The African-American community was much more unified and Jackie would have had a larger support network. The hypocritical hatred for homosexuals African-Americans display is shown among all cultures. Since you couldn't hide you were black, you went ahead and openly showed support for others while many in the LGBT community are still afraid to come out and support their own.

I'm not trying to argue the situations are exactly the same, I AM arguing the over the top coverage of Sam is appropriate considering the uniqueness of the situation and the backlash is indicative of how far we have to go.





Go Cubs!

And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of "the dysfunction in the black community"?

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posted on 5-13-2014 at 02:36 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
I think that comparing Jackie to Sam is kind of an apples to oranges. This is a difficult topic to properly articulate, but I'm going to try.



If it is any consolation, I wanted to make the exact same argument, but I got hung up here because I was going with "apples to mangoes", but then I asked myself "Are mangoes the gayest fruit? Or is that kiwis?"

So there's that working for your way of stating the argument.

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janerd75
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posted on 5-13-2014 at 05:32 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb


the gayest fruit?


I think that honor goes to Johnny Weir.

Anywho, I'm just glad the societal double word score bonus of a black gay dude makes it easier for when Aaron Rodgers finally comes out and my back-up team lives up to their name. Plus, I get the added bonus of all my relatives in rural Hooterville, Wis schvitzing and fizzing because ghey. Down here in Dolphinville this would not be an issue. In fact, I'm surprised they don't have tranny cheerleaders yet. SORRY SORRY!!! This is 2014, goodness, where are my manners, I meant shapeshifter, not tranny.

What was I annoying you guys with...oh, right Sam the Ram. To what chretienbabacool was saying, I've actually had the gay experience on construction sites before. My location being the Ft. Lauderdale area, it was far more in the not-giving-a-shit who did what to whom arena when it came to my fellow constructionists. The only caveat being if they were relatively young and not particularly religious. My friends and I would sling shit in each others faces, as well as some of the cool gay dudes we worked for, that would make Richie Incognito blush. Funny, but the older, leather skinned blue collar white guys AND the black dudes near unanimously did not approve of teh ghey. A skewed sample size, for sure, so make of that what you will. And the near unanimous excuse for their disgust? I don't want my kid seeing that/how am I going to explain that to my kid? I don't know, maybe watch more Louis CK and not worry so much about dicks?

Me, I give no shit as I went to a high school that was literally a block away from a notorious gay bar called 'The Ramrod'. So, an LGBT 'Hey, I'm cool with it' ribbon for me, I guess. Whatevs. Best of luck to ANY young kid that busted ass to get drafted into the NFL, especially Sam. Here's to hoping he blows the doors off any stiff resistance he may face. Because homosexuality.

So, back to stuff that matters. How excited are the Redskins for that sweet RGIII trade they made and does Jerry Jones even like football? Why isn't there an LGBT awareness ribbon for Dan Snyder and Jerry Jones? They've been successfully fucking their own teams for years.

At least the Pack picked up Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. What? No seriously, where's errbody going? Guys wait! I didn't make that up!!!!

Can comedians do halftime shows?

[Edited on 5-13-2014 by janerd75]

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ThirdCitySaints
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posted on 5-15-2014 at 02:10 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So much for Aaron Rodgers coming out...


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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 5-15-2014 at 02:26 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Fuckin' A, good for him. She's gorgeous.





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janerd75
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posted on 5-15-2014 at 06:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Good pick up, Rodgers. Long may you give her tight end the discount double check.

Love Green Bay, just not their shit Raw crowds. Or defense. Hopefully Peppers still has something left.

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posted on 5-15-2014 at 03:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
Good pick up, Rodgers. Long may you give her tight end the discount double check.





Well played, sir. Well, played, indeed.





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Kareem Ofweet
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posted on 5-16-2014 at 06:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Michael Sam has one good move (something like going under on the outside of the tackle to get to the QB), and that'll get figured out fast in the NFL. If he makes it, it'll be as a special teams guy or a situational pass rusher.

Getting drafted in the 7th round had nothing to do with him liking to get his fudge packed. Heisman trophy winners have been drafted late or gone completely undrafted before, so it shouldn't have been shocking to see Sam go so late. Sam was a mid-round prospect before coming out, and then had a crappy combine and pro day, which pushed him further down.

A big reason for the "hate" is the attention he's getting. He has practice squad talent, but is getting 1st round hype. The fact that our "objective" media is openly rooting for him makes it worse. I was hoping he would go undrafted just to see all the ivory tower hand wringing and tsk-tsking the media would have done. They've been just as disgraceful and biased as our political media in the last 10-12 years.

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janerd75
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posted on 5-16-2014 at 09:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kareem Ofweet
Michael Sam has one good move (something like going under on the outside of the tackle to get to the QB), and that'll get figured out fast in the NFL. If he makes it, it'll be as a special teams guy or a situational pass rusher.

Getting drafted in the 7th round had nothing to do with him liking to get his fudge packed. Heisman trophy winners have been drafted late or gone completely undrafted before, so it shouldn't have been shocking to see Sam go so late. Sam was a mid-round prospect before coming out, and then had a crappy combine and pro day, which pushed him further down.

A big reason for the "hate" is the attention he's getting. He has practice squad talent, but is getting 1st round hype. The fact that our "objective" media is openly rooting for him makes it worse. I was hoping he would go undrafted just to see all the ivory tower hand wringing and tsk-tsking the media would have done. They've been just as disgraceful and biased as our political media in the last 10-12 years.


I was with you in the first two paragraphs of astute analysis. The third sounds suspiciously like, "I'm not a racist/bigot, but....". Why in Cthulhu's Name would you hope this kid that's worked so hard, buthted his ass if you wheel, would go undrafted just to spite a media machine that's generally obsessed with The Ghey?

I tend to run conservative-ish, so yeah, the rah-rah gets a bit intense at times, but I grew up in Ft. Lauderdale in the 80's when heteros were all the rage slobbering all over each other on the news for spring break so maybe my Give-A-Shit-Meter is broken. But again, why give the kid the shaft because of someone else's nonsense?

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Kareem Ofweet
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posted on 5-16-2014 at 10:54 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
quote:
Originally posted by Kareem Ofweet
Michael Sam has one good move (something like going under on the outside of the tackle to get to the QB), and that'll get figured out fast in the NFL. If he makes it, it'll be as a special teams guy or a situational pass rusher.

Getting drafted in the 7th round had nothing to do with him liking to get his fudge packed. Heisman trophy winners have been drafted late or gone completely undrafted before, so it shouldn't have been shocking to see Sam go so late. Sam was a mid-round prospect before coming out, and then had a crappy combine and pro day, which pushed him further down.

A big reason for the "hate" is the attention he's getting. He has practice squad talent, but is getting 1st round hype. The fact that our "objective" media is openly rooting for him makes it worse. I was hoping he would go undrafted just to see all the ivory tower hand wringing and tsk-tsking the media would have done. They've been just as disgraceful and biased as our political media in the last 10-12 years.


I was with you in the first two paragraphs of astute analysis. The third sounds suspiciously like, "I'm not a racist/bigot, but....". Why in Cthulhu's Name would you hope this kid that's worked so hard, buthted his ass if you wheel, would go undrafted just to spite a media machine that's generally obsessed with The Ghey?




I could give 2 shits about Sam the gay person. If Sam the football player is good enough, he'll make it. I don't like the fact that the media was basically creating the story instead of reporting, and guilt tripping the teams in the NFL into drafting a borderline player.

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williamssl
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posted on 5-16-2014 at 10:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
BUT SEC DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR!!! SEC!! THAT MEANS HE'S BETTER THAN EVERYONE IN ALL THE OTHER POSITIONS AND THAN MOST IN THE NFL. COME ON NOW!





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posted on 5-16-2014 at 11:50 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kareem Ofweet
I could give 2 shits about Sam the gay person. If Sam the football player is good enough, he'll make it. I don't like the fact that the media was basically creating the story instead of reporting, and guilt tripping the teams in the NFL into drafting a borderline player.


Guilt trip? Huh? The guy was drafted in the seventh round . That's like betting a dollar at the black jack table. Most guys drafted that late (or drafted earlier) just don't pan out. If he makes the team (and it's an if), it won't have anything to do with his sexuality - it will be if he can actually play NFL football. Nobody made anybody draft him.

If anything, the gay agenda probably hurt Sam. A GM was quoted anonymously by Peter King that Sam being openly gay is a problem in the locker room. Here's another stat: only one other SEC Defensive Player of the Year has been drafted outside of Round 2 in the past decade. Maybe people just don't think he's a good player, maybe teams have a problem with the gay agenda, maybe teams don't want the Tebow-ish media circus around him, but smart money says the guy would have been drafted higher had he not come out.

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Kareem Ofweet
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posted on 5-17-2014 at 12:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
quote:
Originally posted by Kareem Ofweet
I could give 2 shits about Sam the gay person. If Sam the football player is good enough, he'll make it. I don't like the fact that the media was basically creating the story instead of reporting, and guilt tripping the teams in the NFL into drafting a borderline player.


Guilt trip? Huh? The guy was drafted in the seventh round . That's like betting a dollar at the black jack table. Most guys drafted that late (or drafted earlier) just don't pan out. If he makes the team (and it's an if), it won't have anything to do with his sexuality - it will be if he can actually play NFL football. Nobody made anybody draft him.



Yes. Guilt trip. Major sports outlets were already setting up stories about the "homophobic" and insensitive nature of the NFL regarding gays once they got to the 3rd and final day of the draft and Sam hadn't gone yet. Teams were being urged by the league to draft him.

And he wouldn't have gone higher had he not come out. He was exposed as a 1 trick pony in the Senior Bowl, and his stock went even further south at the combine and pro day. Again, practice squad talent, 1st round hype.

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denverpunk
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posted on 5-17-2014 at 12:45 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Plenty of guys have had shitty pro days and it didn't totally drop them off the draft board. I don't buy that he wouldn't have drafted without coming out, and I definitely don't buy that the Rams drafted him because the media forced their hand. I don't see St. Louis' GM, with pressing needs on both sides of the ball, drafting somebody they see absolutely no future in just so the media won't call the league homophobes, low round or not.

I see the argument about drafting a 'feel good' story for PR, but the media circus around him wouldn't be worth it if they knew he had no shot in making the team. Tim Tebow is in too many people's memories.

But let's say you're right, and he was drafted mainly due to media pressure. I don't see a huge problem with that. Baseball and basketball both needed outside nudging to allow African-Americans in both respective games. It needed to happen. Perhaps it needs to happen here, too.

[Edited on 5-16-2014 by denverpunk]

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