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Author: Subject: Matches that could have happened, but never did
the goon
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 03:44 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Matches that could have happened, but never did

I got to thinking about this topic recently because over in the Fantasy forum, I did a "Fantasy Book WrestleMania XXX" thread and a few people (myself included) penciled in Taker/Cena, mainly due to the fact that it's one of the last dream matches the WWE has never done but could still put on. Okay, so technically they have run the match once, but that was ten years ago, when Cena was still an up and coming heel just emerging from the midcard. Otherwise, when you think that Cena won his first WWE title in 2005, it's hard to believe that in the eight years since then, we've never gotten a proper Taker/Cena feud.

Another one that comes to mind is the Rock and Shawn Michaels. They've wrestled on the same PPV at least five times (WrestleMania XIV, SummerSlam 2002, WrestleMania XIX, Backlash 2003, and WrestleMania XX) and have crossed paths a couple of times on TV, but otherwise the stars never aligned for them to have a proper match or feud against each other. Probably the best time it could have happened was in 2003, which was before Rock had completely bolted for Hollywood and he was a heel, while Shawn was a face.

And the third one I can think of is Taker/Goldberg. What would look like a big money match on paper never came close to happening (did those two ever even cross paths while Goldberg was in the WWE?), I'd say for three main reasons: Goldberg didn't stick around long enough, both guys were faces at the time, and Taker was off TV for a chunk of Goldberg's time in the WWE selling the "buried alive by Kane and Vince" storyline. Otherwise, it's interesting to think that the WWE had both guys at the same time for a year, but never did a match with them.

So those would be the main three I can think of off the top of my head. Any other potential big matches where two guys were in the same company at the same time, but various circumstances prevented them from ever working together?





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 04:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
While it happened in WCW almost immediately upon his arrival, Hogan/Flair for the WWF Championship should've happened when Flair was in the company as the "real world champion".

I think the only circumstance was Hogan's a piece of crap.






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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 06:09 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
While it happened in WCW almost immediately upon his arrival, Hogan/Flair for the WWF Championship should've happened when Flair was in the company as the "real world champion".

I think the only circumstance was Hogan's a piece of crap.


I've always heard it told that Hogan/Flair was actually the intended WrestleMania VIII main event when Flair signed back in '91. Then they did a test run on the house show circuit late in the year and the matches were allegedly awful, and Vince panicked and re-wrote everything. So we ended up with the awesome Flair-Savage stuff, instead. Though yeah, Hogan-Flair at the time seemed like it would have been huge.

On topic, I think they really missed out on Brock-Triple H back in Brock's original run when people would have actually given a hot damn about it. I don't think they ever did Brock-Kane, either.

And Bret-Foley had some overlapping tenure in the mid-90s and I can't remember them ever getting a program.





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posted on 11-4-2013 at 06:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Similar to Taker-Cena, Hogan-Bret Hart did happen but never on a big stage. (On an episode of Thunder, IIRC). It seems this match should have happened; ideally at SummerSlam 1993 to give Bret "the rub" but even sometime in 1998-1999 WCW.

The controversial Austin-Brock planned matchup that sent Austin into exile in 2002 never came to fruition. While that was not the right time, the match should have happened sometime shortly after SummerSlam 2002 during Brock's first title reign.

Former tag partners-come-simultaneous World Champs could have faced each other, albeit eight years after the fact. That would have been a meeting between the former Blade Runners, Sting vs Ultimate Warrior. Probably not a great match but still an event that may have been worth seeing.

And I would like to see my two recent favorites meet in a one-on-one PPV match at least once, so WWE, please book Alberto Del Rio vs Chris Jericho while you can! I can guarantee at least one buy!

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salmonjunkie
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 07:07 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Sting vs The Ultimate Warrior was definitely on my dream matches list, but that couldn't happen since they were both in seperate companies.

WCW Warrior doesn't count. Fuck that guy.






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salmonjunkie
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 07:08 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Another one to add to the list. Chris Benoit vs CM Punk for the ECW Title.

But we all know why that never happened.






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gobbledygooker
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 09:14 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Rock-HBK is an interesting one since they were both around a decent bit post-Shawn's resurgence in 2002. I guess they were both just busy with other feuds (Shawn w/ HHH, Rock w/ Brock before leaving for Hollywood) and the stars never properly aligned.

There's a chunk of awesome matches between older guys and younger guys (at the time) that could've happened in late-90's WCW if things hadn't been run as they were (and assuming the older guys still could've performed at a decent level). Benoit vs. Macho would've been cool. Jericho vs. any of the upper-level guys would've been awesome if they had given him the chance (starting with the aborted feud with Goldberg). But that might've negated the GREATEST DEBUT OF ALL-TIME in 1999 and robbed us of the awesomeness Jericho provided in WWF/E.





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 11-4-2013 at 09:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Benoit vs. Macho, Jericho vs. Macho, Eddie Guerrero vs Macho, Flyin Brian vs. Macho. Hot damn those all would've been awesome.

Did we ever see Jericho vs Brian Pillman?

Matches I would love to see today:
Daniel Bryan vs. Kurt Angle
CM Punk vs Kurt Angle
CM Punk vs AJ Styles
Daniel Bryan vs AJ Styles
Samoa Joe vs Brock Lesnar
Samoa Joe vs. Antonio Cesaro






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posted on 11-4-2013 at 09:47 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I wanna see Joe against pretty much the entire WWE roster, but I'm 90% sure he's never going to get into a WWE ring.





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posted on 11-4-2013 at 10:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels in like, 2004, would've been fucking awesome.





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posted on 11-4-2013 at 10:34 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
Samoa Joe vs Brock Lesnar
Samoa Joe vs. Antonio Cesaro

Combining these, I'd like to see Brock Lesnar vs. Antonio Cesaro.





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the goon
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posted on 11-5-2013 at 05:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The Hogan/Flair one is always odd to me, because even if the house show matches weren't good, it still seems like that was the obvious money main event for WrestleMania VIII either way. It would be like if in 2012 Vince said "Hmm, I don't think Rock/Cena is going to be a good match, so let's do Rock/Big Show and Cena/Orton instead." And there's an interview on YouTube with Hogan where he claims that him and Flair were selling out house shows across the country and assuming they were locked in for WrestleMania, but then Vince suddenly changed his mind for reasons unknown. Of course, this is coming from Hogan, so take it with a large grain of salt.

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels in like, 2004, would've been fucking awesome.


That's a big one that I completely blanked on. And the sad thing is, they were going to be on opposing teams at the 2005 Survivor Series but Eddie died two weeks before the PPV (I even remember posting in that year's Survivor Series thread about being excited that we could potentially see Shawn and Eddie lock up for the first time ever in the match). Definitely one of the great missed opportunities of wrestling.





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CamstunPWG187
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posted on 11-5-2013 at 12:27 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Rock vs hBK never happened because they never wanted to work with each other. Read that in an interview.
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gobbledygooker
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posted on 11-5-2013 at 03:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The other weird thing about the Hogan-Flair failure is that I've seen a match on, I think, the Ric Flair retrospective DVD set of Hogan vs. Flair from a Madison Square Garden house show around that timeframe and it is a really fun match! Flair playing the chickenshit heel, Hogan chasing him around...how in the hell could that dynamic have ever sucked enough to not be used?!





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blazeofglory
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posted on 11-5-2013 at 04:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gobbledygooker
The other weird thing about the Hogan-Flair failure is that I've seen a match on, I think, the Ric Flair retrospective DVD set of Hogan vs. Flair from a Madison Square Garden house show around that timeframe and it is a really fun match! Flair playing the chickenshit heel, Hogan chasing him around...how in the hell could that dynamic have ever sucked enough to not be used?!


I don't know if it's the same match you're referring to gooker, but I distinctly remember seeing a Hogan/Flair match on the MSG Network (Google tells me that it was aired on 11/30/91), where Flair used brass knuckles and pinned Hogan and won the title. But of course it turned out to be a Dusty finish, as the ref found the knucks and reversed the decision. If they ran that finish on multiple house shows, and that's what Vince was reacting to, I wonder if the crowd wasn't really happy with the way the finish happened because they were getting tired of Hogan by then, and that's what Vince was picking up on, but in classic Vince fashion, he decided that the fans didn't know what they really wanted...

Remember that it was only about 2 months down the road where Flair won the title at the Royal Rumble in January 1992. I was at that event, and have said on here previously, that the crowd popped huge for Flair's win, and Hogan subsequently got booed out of the building. Any later airings of said match by WWE have had the crowd noise completely reversed and they make it look like Hogan leaves to thunderous applause.

It seems clear to me that at that point they still wanted people to cheer Hogan so maybe Vince had to nix Hogan/Flair because he couldn't have Flair get cheered over Hogan at WrestleMania.





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posted on 11-5-2013 at 04:29 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Good points. And regarding MSG, with that being complete "WWF country" at that time, their reaction as pro-Hogan was probably more due to them thinking "Hogan's OUR guy, who's this outsider from the south??" It's probably valid to think that reactions were more split elsewhere in the country.

EDIT - And yes, I think that is the match I'm referring to. I haven't seen it in a while but I do believe I remember brass nucks being used.

[Edited on 11-5-2013 by gobbledygooker]





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blazeofglory
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posted on 11-5-2013 at 05:02 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I don't actually remember the crowd response for the MSG Hogan/Flair outcome to know if it was still biased towards Hogan or not. But the '92 Rumble was in Albany, NY, which is very deep in the heart of WWF land, a couple hours north of MSG. So my guess is that the reaction at the Rumble really had little to do with geography.

And I don't know if the fans were as unaware of who Flair was as WWE might have wanted to believe at that time. We all saw the Apter mags and many had cable television available to us where we were able to find NWA and even AWA wrestling on TV from far outside the home market, so I'd like to think that a majority of the fans really did know who Flair was and what his pedigree was.

We know that WWE has been notoriously behind the times as it pertains to pop culture and to the rise of the internet. Is it possible that they were behind the times even back then as it pertains to the rise of the cable TV market?





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posted on 11-6-2013 at 12:30 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
Rock vs hBK never happened because they never wanted to work with each other. Read that in an interview.


This was my understanding, too. The story -- if I remember it correctly -- goes that Shawn Michaels was very vocally opposed to the Rock main-eventing Wrestlemania 15 and was lobbying for the main event to be Mankind vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin instead, or somesuch. He may have also tried to pitch Big Show as a non-Rock main-eventer. Either way, word is Rock didn't take too kindly to that and subsequently hasn't had a lot of interest in working with Michaels.

I imagine if Michaels' in-ring return hadn't coincided with Rock going permanently part-time, Rock wouldn't have been opposed to working with him as part of a regular schedule somewhere down the road, but given how few matches Rock has had since then, there have always been plenty of other options for him.

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posted on 11-6-2013 at 06:15 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
Rock vs hBK never happened because they never wanted to work with each other. Read that in an interview.


This was my understanding, too. The story -- if I remember it correctly -- goes that Shawn Michaels was very vocally opposed to the Rock main-eventing Wrestlemania 15 and was lobbying for the main event to be Mankind vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin instead, or somesuch. He may have also tried to pitch Big Show as a non-Rock main-eventer. Either way, word is Rock didn't take too kindly to that and subsequently hasn't had a lot of interest in working with Michaels.


Out of curiosity, was this something stated by Shawn or the Rock specifically? The only reason I ask is because it seems a little odd that Shawn would have been that vocal about the WrestleMania XV main event (or been involved with it at all) when he had basically been retired for a year and off of TV for most of that time. Of course, I don't mean to discount the story entirely because I'm sure Shawn was still in his "massive dickhead" phase at that point, but I don't get why he'd be lobbying for Foley and/or Show over the Rock outside of some unknown personal vendetta.





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posted on 11-6-2013 at 07:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
RE: Michaels' lobbying

Even though he hadn't wrestled since WM 14, he was still hanging around, even more so towards WM 15 because Vince "valued his opinion." This also happened to be when he was at his worst addiction wise. I've heard that he was slated for a longer run as commissioner but was just too far gone on pills.

In Foley's second book he talks about Michaels' role in pushing him out of the main event. The original plan was a three way with Austin Foley and Rock. Supposedly Michaels convinced Vince that the WM main event must be one on one. According to Foley, Michaels was actually pushing for Austin v. Foley, but Vince thought that had already been overdone, so they went with the fresh match up.

Foley seems like an honest guy, so I'm sure there's an element of truth here, but I also think that Michaels' role in getting the match changed is overstated. In the end, Vince is going to do what he's going to do, and as big a Foley fan as I am, Rock Austin was the right match at the time. If my teenage mind could see it then, I'm sure Vince could as well.

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posted on 11-6-2013 at 09:21 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm sure the lobbying also had something to do with what's said to be extremely real animosity between Triple H and Rocky (especially back then) and HHH being Shawn's boy.





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posted on 11-7-2013 at 03:14 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels is probably my ultimate dream match that could've happened and didn't. Might've happened on a Raw or something that I didn't see, but a real, honest, PPV spectacle match between the two would've been mind blowing.





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posted on 11-7-2013 at 08:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Is Good517
I'm sure the lobbying also had something to do with what's said to be extremely real animosity between Triple H and Rocky (especially back then) and HHH being Shawn's boy.


I haven't heard that before but that's really interesting given how much they worked together in the late 90's into early 2000's.





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posted on 11-8-2013 at 12:04 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gobbledygooker
I haven't heard that before but that's really interesting given how much they worked together in the late 90's into early 2000's.


Yeah, I can't quite remember all the different places I've heard this, and this is all long dirt sheet rumors and hearsay and second hand info with nothing to confirm it so take it all as such, but I've always got the impression that HHH hated Rocky with the intensity that HBK and Bret hated each other, although it was fueled more by professional jealousy than any sort of serious personal animosity, even though I guess they legitimately disliked each other personally, too. I remember reading all over the place that HHH wanted to be a big movie star and was jealous as fuck of Rocky making it and him not getting anywhere with Hollywood (although supposedly he was at the top of the list of choices to play Thor a few years back), and I think Chyna said in an interview that it ate HHH alive that the Rock was so much more over than he was and that Rock didn't come to his wedding, but the source is Chyna so take that with a shaker of salt. There was also an issue where Bret and Rocky were good friends and Bret acted as a mentor to Rock when he was breaking in so Rock had a general poor impression of HBK and HHH. Still, I've learned that you can hate your co-workers for all you're worth and still be able to be professional and productive with them, and I'm sure that was the case in the late 90s/early 00s.

Also, from everything I've heard it's all water under the bridge and they're pretty cool now.





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posted on 11-8-2013 at 05:07 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Eddie Guerrero vs. Shawn Michaels is probably my ultimate dream match that could've happened and didn't. Might've happened on a Raw or something that I didn't see, but a real, honest, PPV spectacle match between the two would've been mind blowing.


I had to look up the footage on YouTube just to be sure, but during the Eddie tribute episode of RAW, Shawn himself said that they never wrestled (but that they did bond backstage over being born-again Christians). So sadly there was not one single match between those two, but I agree that if I could pick one dream match to have happen, it would probably be Shawn/Eddie.





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