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Author: Subject: The newest marijuana commercial
bigfatgoalie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:01 PM Edit Post
Here's a question for you...does anybody think that beer or cigarettes would be made legal today???

assume that they were not legal...do you think the government in Canada or the US would make them legal???

So why should pot be made legal???

Pot is bad for you...admit it...






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2HoT
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:10 PM Edit Post
So is wasting your life watching wrestling and bitching on message boards but that doesnt stop us.





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:22 PM Edit Post
No one here has said pot isn't bad for you you big fat goon.

But so is drinking alcohol (which was illegal for a few years in the US, since you wanted to ask those asinine hypothetical questions on legality what-ifs), smoking cigarettes, eating at McDonalds, drinking milkshakes, and masturbating every day. And guess, what? All of us know that.

So what's your fucking point?






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OO Kyle
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:22 PM Edit Post
Day One: Invent Bread.
Day Two: Drink the malty froth left over from Day One.

Anyway, back on topic- to each their own, but I don't drink for the same reason I don't smoke pot. I don't like the feeling anymore. Futher, I once attended a huge pot party while absolutely sober, and let me tell you, watching your friends sit around stoned while you yourself are sober is the fastest method known to man for ridding yourself of any urge to EVER smoke pot again.

I mean seriously, do the Tokers in the group KNOW how stupid they look whilst stoned? I know I didn't. Damn. "Oh, man, I just figured out the X-Files! It's like, all a fantasy of the Smoking Man! It's like, a book he's writing- you know what I mean? It's like his fantasy or something!"

Not that booze is an intelligence enhancer EITHER.

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Michrome
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:26 PM Edit Post
Lots of things are bad for you, if we outlawed everything that did any harm, we'd have almost nothing. Basically, when the government regulates behavior, it's like saying "You are incapable of deciding what is good for you, so we'll do it for you." I don't accept that, and the power of the U.S. federal government to do it is sure not listed in article 1, section 8.
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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:29 PM Edit Post
My point is this...most people who do smoke pot tend to fit in with the pot-head image...sure there are some who don't, but then there are always exceptions to general statements like that...

What is shocking is that people here tend to blow off smoking pot as something that is no big deal. I know that drinking is stupid, but it is a vice of mine. I know it is something I shouldn't do.

You want to say that eating McDonald's is bad for you...yeah...ok, you got me there.

But why is it that you will let a kid eat a Happy Meal but would likely get freaked out if a 4 year old was getting stoned every weekend...






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Eli
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:31 PM Edit Post
Life is bad for you. If you aint busy living, then get busy dying.





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:33 PM Edit Post
Honestly, I just don't like smoking pot as much as I used to because it makes me lazy and a little antisocial. Pretty much the only time I smoke now is either: at a mellow concert, in Vegas, or a night at home (or a buddy's home) watching DVDs. And even then, it's not a necessary thing to do when I do those activities.

I still like getting a nice high here and there, but I don't like smoking to the point that I'm stoned stupid. Just like I don't like drinking to the point where I'm drunken stupid throwing up.

And I suck at video games when I'm high.

"You want to say that eating McDonald's is bad for you...yeah...ok, you got me there.

But why is it that you will let a kid eat a Happy Meal but would likely get freaked out if a 4 year old was getting stoned every weekend..."

See, that's you once again trying to sound smart, but sounding really stupid. Nobody here said kids should get stoned. And quite frankly, I wouldn't want my 4 year old eating a Happy Meal every weekend, either. I don't want fat kids with high cholesterol.






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salmonjunkie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:35 PM Edit Post
quote:

most people who do smoke pot tend to fit in with the pot-head image



WRONG AGAIN.

If you amend that to: "most people who do smoke pot every day tend to fit in with the pot-head image" then you'd be correct.

Most people who smoke pot do it on occasion, not on a regular basis.






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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:41 PM Edit Post
salmon...here's the thing...MOST people who do smoke pot tend to smoke it VERY often...YOU ARE NOT MOST PEOPLE...and once again, the are bound to be exceptions...it's a general statement...

As for the McDonald's thing...I'm pointing out there is many things that are bad for you...some or more bad then others. Saying that smoking pot is ok because everything is bad for you is a rather silly comment.

I just don't see why people have a problem with me thinking people should not smoke pot....






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chretienbabacool
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:41 PM Edit Post
I'm fine with the issue of let people do what they want up to a point.

That point is when my taxes go to bailing out the healthcare system because some overweight slob can't step away from the cheeseburger. That point is when I say either the overweight slob or the place which provides the cheeseburger should bail the healthcare system out.

For me, this issue encompesses many other walks of life. The automakers and people who buy cars should pay for the asthma costs. Coal companies and people who support having cheap power should pay for mercury cleanup and cancer cases. Cigeratte companies and people who smoke should pay for the cancer and other lung disease cases.

These are all personal choices people make, and personal choices the companies make causing these problems. I think therefore they should pay for their personal choices.

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salmonjunkie
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 06:55 PM Edit Post
I don't have an issue with you not wanting people to smoke pot. I have an issue of the your line of reasoning that causes you to make dumb comments such as:

"Saying that smoking pot is ok because everything is bad for you is a rather silly comment."

Dude, NO ONE here has said smoking pot is ok. Stop putting words in our mouths.

No, I am not most people, and yeah, I've been using myself as an example, but I think that out of the people that I currently know (and I actually do know a lot of people. I'm an extrovert like that.), about 95% have tried pot. Of those, maybe 20% still do it today. So roughly 25-30 people I currently know still smoke pot at least occasionally. Out of those, I only know of 3 people in my life that smoke in such a regularity (more then twice a week) that I can call a pothead. That's not most pot smokers, is it?

Granted, that's a sample of only the people I know, not of everyone in this country, but I think it's a pretty good guesstimate.

I know you never said it, but it's just like saying "most people who drink are alcoholics." It's an untrue statement.






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Denethor
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 07:44 PM Edit Post
so does this mean my 3-time a day heroin habit is a bad thing?

i can't speak for canada, but goalie sounds like the typical american (my age) who has been raised on 'just say no' campaigns. they yell and scream that drugs are bad, and sometimes they are... but drugs are not the devil, or the devils tool. and as stated above, pretty much everything is bad for you. hell, love can be a fatal addiction.

if you're going to get indignant about an issue like this, then alcohol should really be about 300 places higher on the list. it kills more people than pot (pot kills nobody, as is well recorded, although i'm not saying its good for you), and not only is booze legal, but its plastered all over our society as a sociable thing to engage in.

i've been a pothead on and off since college, and there was a time when my roommates and i were going through an oz a week (on top of a pack a butts a day). obviously i don't do that anymore, but i still smoke, probably enough to fit into the standards of a "pothead", although i don't categorize myself as such.

one reason for partaking (smokers love that word, for some reason) is that i really don't enjoy drinking a lot. i like drinking socially, but getting drunk is often too much work. i feel like when i'm drinking, i have to constantly monitor my stomach to make sure everything is status quo. like i said, i don't do it that much. at a bar, excessive drinking leads to endless bathroom trips. and then you have to worry about the last bathroom trip where it may or may not all come back up. not only does pot not make you sick, but it makes you feel better.

but heres the best advantage of pot over alcohol that i can think of:

-number of times i've come home drunk, almost gotten laid, only to be forced to end the evening early due to excessive vomiting: more than once. what is it about vomit that turns a girl off?

-number of times I've smoked pot and gotten too sick to have sex: none. hell, i knew a girl in school who didn't really smoke, because when she did she HAD to have sex with someone. now how can anyone have anything bad to say about pot after hearing that??






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Eli
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 07:49 PM Edit Post
I'll come right out and say I think smoking pot is ok. Myself and my friends do it and we are healthy-minded contributors to society. We don't hurt people. We don't rob people. We like to have barbecues. We drink. We smoke. It's fine. It should be legal. People who think otherwise are unaware. Probably because they have either have never tried it. People who have tried it, know it's as harmless as anything else. Now, I know there are a lot of people who have hang-ups about it. That's fine. But don't push you're hang-ups on me 'cause I'm gonna fire up a fat spliff and give a you nice cup of shut-the-fuck-up.

Amen.

How's that for a long answer Maxwell?





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Denethor
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 08:00 PM Edit Post
another extremely important point is that pot affects everybody differently. some people smoke, and watch tv all day long. some people get more outgoing when they smoke. i've read testimonials and stuff where people said they couldn't get through a normal work day (being productive) without smoking.






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2HoT
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 09:13 PM Edit Post
I agree with Eli 100%.

And just because we happen to enjoy the pleasures of a full bong or a nice fat 2x2 doesnt mean we are saying that POT IS GOOD AND YOU SHOULD SMOKE IT. None of us has said that. As far as I am concerned, If you don't want to smoke weed GREAT! More for me.

I am a fully competant and productive member of society who smokes weed. There was a period of about 4 years where I smoked weed every goddam day. I still held a job. I was not a burden to society. Aside from the occasional venture over the speed limit, that was the only law breaking I did.

I don't believe one should sit on their mountain top and pass judgement and point fingers when they dont really know what the fuck they are talking about.

Unless you speak from experience, then let me top up that glass Eli gave you.





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OO Kyle
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 09:31 PM Edit Post
This thread is funny.

I'm living proof that a person can smoke pot on a purely recreational, occasional basis. Even when I SMOKED the stuff, I never did it more than maybe twice a month.

Frankly, I do not understand people who can smoke an entire joint a day, any more than I'd understand people who drink six shots of Tequila a day. (And to me anyway, the level of intoxication is entirely equivalent, but maybe I'm a lightweight in regards to pot. Or maybe I have a high tolerance to Tequila.)

Sure, there are people who abuse pot. Or beer. Or hand lotion. But there are plenty of people who can handle their high.

If you offered me a joint right now today, I'd turn it down, because I don't like the way it makes me feel. But frankly, I see no reason why Pot is illegal, but Everclear isn't.

Here's another thought- one of the big reasons I don't do illegal drugs is the fact that I have a family. While I'm totally fine with whatever lifestyles people choose to live, I think ANYONE who has dependant children who would risk being tossed in jail over something as freakin' trivial as Pot is a SERIOUS asshole, and I have no respect for them. Yes, I smoked occasionally after becoming a dad, but I NEVER bought, and I NEVER carried, not one damn time. And frankly, I was an idiot for even smoking. I look back on it now with utter horrified embarassment.

There's a certain amount of 'growing the hell up' that goes with being a parent. Or should, at least. The only regrets of my life are the dumbass things I did when I SHOULD have been spending time with my family.

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Denethor
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posted on 4-16-2003 at 09:54 PM Edit Post
the parent thing is another aspect, and i'm sure we all agree. wait, the last thing i should do around here is speak for other people. I agree, anway.

sidenote... anyone ever smoke with your parents? i never have, but a friend from high school and i smoked with her parents. her mother is a 4th grade teacher, and i found the whole experience wrong. not to say i've got a huge morality problem with pot... but a middle aged couple should not be able to roll beautiful joints for their teenagers. it was the only time in my life i didn't get high when i smoked, i think out of fear. she was my fourth grade math teacher, for christs sake!!

although i must say, it was the safest way to smoke (cars keys collected, everone supervised, ect.)






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Eli
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 12:11 AM Edit Post
I hate to get all low-brow here but, look at this guy. What's not to love?








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Eli
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 12:33 AM Edit Post
Ok then, how about this guy?








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LuckyLopez
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 03:48 AM Edit Post
Wow... this was an interesting and long one... I feel the need to chime in...

I personally am against drugs in general. Its a personal choice that I have my reasons for. I have never touched any sort of "drug" and I can't stand to be in a room that has a faint smell of marijuana... and yet I drink pretty heavily. In fact I had 6 Bass' on a Wednesday night dinner and I'm now readying myself to go out to the bar.

So I have to agree with those here who have suggested it should be regulated but not outlawed. Unless of course you feel the need to outlaw alcohol, smoking, fast food, and anything else which may endanger others. Driving can be dangerous (to yourself and others) if you do it irresponsibly. So its regulated. Same with booze, smoking and operation of heavy machinery.

You know... there's really nothing left to contribute in this issue. But I also enjoy chiming in since I have something of a unique voice in that I am so ANTI drug personally and yet support the rights of people to fuck themselves up.

I have a whole crapload of mildly amusing but generally inconsequential anecodtes to fit here... I'll try the most recent...

I have a colleague in my field who I graduated school with. I was telling my very straight family that he just got engaged and bought a house (being the first of my general age group to be THAT "Adult"). Unfortunatelly I had once made the mistake of describing the reason he was dismissed from a job was because he was a pothead and sold some. Immediatelly my family decided the money for the house came from his lucrative and evil drug sales. No matter how I argued, I could not convince them that there was a difference in your "drug dealer" and a 22 year old who buys extra pot and sells it to half a dozen friends. I could not convince them of a real difference between pot and heroin. I only stayed on the arguement in defense of my friend, hoping he'd never find himself in the situation of being looked down on because I made some misplaced comments. If not for that I really would have just walked away, realizing that our situation seems to be broken up into those who actually see the whole spectrum of the "drug world" and understand the wide range it has and those who simply know the "Just Say No" ads and the violent and debilitating aspect of it. (I should note that the family members consisted of a right wing republican magazine writer in my sister and a mother who principals a grammar school in Washington Heights, NY... where I can identify at least 2 crack houses and an US Marshall's Office within a block)

That is my alltogether pointless but mildly interesting anecdote of the week...

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angstboy
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 03:41 PM Edit Post
About 4 billion years ago, this thread was started because of one of those anti-marijuana ads. Since then, we've covered issues ranging from responsibility, to legality, to BFG's ignorance, to the quality of some pot smoker's shirts. Since I work for the National Institute on Drug Abuse, I thought I'd lay some info down on the table, there really hasn't been any presented. Now, yes, NIDA is a government agency but all the information that comes across my desk is scientific in nature. Various forms of drug testing happen right on the very floors above and below me all day long (and no, I can't get anyone some of the "good shit"). Sometimes the data is all pretty raw but none of it has been processed in the governmental spin machine, yet. The point of the institute is to inform, not preach.

With all that said, marijuana isn't harmless. Then again, niether is alcohol. We all know this. This thread was started because of a car accident commercial which implied that smoking marijuana and getting behind the wheel of a car is dangerous. It is. Marijuana effects the same parts of the brain that alcohol does. It stimulates pleasure resceptors that release dopamine into our system that get us "high." The THC that is released into our bloodstream eventually works it's way to our brains and binds itself to receptors in the parts of the brain (cerebellum and basal ganglia) that regulate balance, reaction time and coordination.

Now, of course the issue of "handling your high" comes into play. I understand, although I've never touched an illegal drug in my life, that althought the biological effects of drug use are relatively the same for every individual, how that translates behaviorally can vary greatly. The same goes for alcohol. By most accounts, I'm a boyscout. I don't smoke or drink coffee or kick small woodland creatures. I didn't start drinking alcohol until I was 23 (i'm 27 now). I'm guilty of getting behind the wheel after a few beers, but only if I've felt I can handle it. If you're willing to take the risks, then sure, drinking or smoking pot is "ok."

Speaking of risks, marijuana smoke "puff for puff" contains about 50-70% more carcinogenic hydrocarbons than tobacco smoke does. That's taking into account differences in smoking techniques, general averages and different types of weed. THC has also been shown to impair the immune system. Also, based on what occurs when the drug enters your system your chances for heart attack increase, simply based on the biology of what happens durring cardiac arrest and what happens when you smoke anything, including pot and tobacco.

So, if you're fine with all this, great. Smoke away. If not, fine, don't touch the stuff. We all know that pot isn't good for you, but it also most definately IS bad for you.






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OO Kyle
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 04:18 PM Edit Post
Great post, angstboy.

The problem that I have with pro-Pot crusaders like the "Doonsebury" guy whos name I've forgotten is that they try to portray Pot as completely harmless, which is just plain stupid. You're still drawing the fumes and ash of a burning plant into your body.

I saw an article recently that claimed that the fines for smoking cigarettes indoors in NYC are higher than the fines for lighting up a joint. This strikes me as plain old fashioned crazy. I'm not getting in anyones face about smoking pot- it's your call. But damn, it's at least as bad as any other vice, be it booze or alcohol.

I haven't said this yet, so now maybe this is the time: I personally would legalize nearly ALL drugs. Then I'd put a HUGE penalty on any crime committed while under the influence. Get drunk or high and then harm somebody in your car? MANDATORY DEATH PENALTY. Within a week of conviction. No appeals, straight to the Chamber.

That might sound a little harsh, but I'm a harsh guy. I don't see why responsible people who can handle their high should be penalized for a bunch of idiots who over-indulge. Cull out the losers, and then the rest of won't NEED a bunch of laws governing our behavior.

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2HoT
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 05:03 PM Edit Post
Damn Kyle, correct me if I am rong but haven't you, in the past, claimed to be a liberal insofar as your ideological alignment? If I am wrong on this, forgive me. I must have been thinking of someone else. If I am right, then you are probably the single most right-wing liberal I have ever encountered. I know people who claim to be Conservative (re. Republican) whos right-wing views are not as extreme as yours. Again, if I am confusing you with someone else I apologise. I have smoked a lot of weed in my life and the memory is not as sharp as it once was.


I am fully aware that marijuana is bad for me. I am also fully aware that alcohol is bad for me. I know from purely anecdotal evidence that alcohol tends to make people far more violent than weed does. I feel that the social costs of alcohol are far greater than that of weed. That could partly be a function of base rate statistics (there are far more drinkers than pot smokers) but I think you would find that if pot was legal, the social cost would still be less. I am not talking about impaired driving here. I am talking about costs to the health care system. I am talking about spousal and child abuse. I am talking about violent crime of any sort, ie assult. And that does not even begin to consider the havoc that alcohol wreaks on our (Canada) aboriginal communities.

To my mind, yes, they are both bad. No one should drive impared under any circumstance be it alcohol, weed, coccaine, twinkies, dandelions or lack of sleep.

The point I am trying to get at in my meandering pot-head way is that pot is bad but alcohol is, in general, worse.





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Eli
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posted on 4-17-2003 at 05:48 PM Edit Post
Ya know, it may have been said before but, it's all in the parenting...








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