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Author: Subject: Marvel Comics or How Is Wolverine Everywhere?
MrJustinB
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posted on 10-20-2011 at 12:56 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Marvel Comics or How Is Wolverine Everywhere?

In the interest of not crossing streams, here's a little spot for those who want to discuss all things Marvel.

So, what's the deal with Cable showing up to shoot up the Avengers? I thought we all got sick of that guy in the '90s.

Also, is there anything worth reading other than the Punisher MAX series?

And, btw, Deadpool MAX is horrid.

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DevilSoprano
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posted on 10-20-2011 at 07:12 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I've really enjoyed Schism, but its gonna suck if people side with Wolverine just because he's the so called cash cow of Marvel. Cyclops is the better leader and is shockingly way more interesting than almost anyone else in the X Universe.

On an individual comic level X-Factor is always good and Avengers Academy is awesome.

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Stu
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posted on 10-20-2011 at 09:56 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Fear Itself finished this week. Overall, I'd say this was one of the worser Marvel events of recent years, but still better than Secret Invasion. Problem is while most of the other ones had a theme or a point to make, or were coming from a lot of setup, Fear Itself has just sorta happened, with a villain who's come out of nowhere, barely had his backstory explained, and gets suddenly defeated in a rather straightforward fight after 6 issues of handing everyone thier ass. The theme of "Fear" is really underdeveloped throughout and nothing is really said about it that's that original or inspiring, and just comes across like a poor man's Sinestro Corps War, but a bunch of moments are written in that are supposedly big and dramatic, but fall flat from being totally unearned. Yeah, Cap picking up Mjolnir is cool, but...getting to that point was rather perfunctory. Iron Man crafting weapons from Uru for the Avengers to use is cool too, but it just raises the question why didn't you all just do that from the beginning rather than have Odin mope about and talk about how doomed they all where for most of the series? Just equipping his OWN soldiers with those weapons should have been enough since they're GODS and all. Too many plot points are brought up in the main mini only to be dropped to go fill up a tie-in, particularly annoying regarding the first 2 issues setting up so many of these things and showing who the Worthy are. The whole purpose of this really seemed to just doing a couple of high profile deaths, and then tagging on a bunch of tenuous prologues at the end to not only jack the page count up to warrant some extra price but also advertise a whole new set of books. Real shame, as I like Fraction and Immomen. There were some nice fight scenes and moments, but it's all just strung together so carelessly and not really a nice whole.

Plus I only committed to buying it because they said Iron Fist would get something significant to do in the main mini and I got gypped on that!

I might buy the Defenders book though.

I read Future Foundation(FF) and I enjoy it, though I am a little lost sometimes as they refer to the previous series and other Marvel events a bit that I'm not that familiar with. And they did a 2 issue diversion about Black Bolt and the origins of the Inhumans that didn't even feature any of the FF.

[Edited on 20-10-11 by Stu]





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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 10-20-2011 at 10:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
I've really enjoyed Schism, but its gonna suck if people side with Wolverine just because he's the so called cash cow of Marvel. Cyclops is the better leader and is shockingly way more interesting than almost anyone else in the X Universe.



I KNEW I WASN'T THE ONLY CYCLOPS FAN OUT THERE!

BTW, I'm thinking about getting back into collecting again after about fifteen years of only keeping up by hearsay, so Dev, if you get a chance, can you U2U me and fill me in on Schism?





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CreativeInternetAliass
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posted on 10-21-2011 at 01:20 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Make it three at least Chris. I can't imagine the X-men without Cyclops. I have also realized in recent years, that it was not that Cyclops was a lame character, but that Jean Grey was so lame, that Cyclops ended up lame by association. once they killed her and kept her dead, he really developed into a great character.





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Stu
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posted on 10-21-2011 at 01:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Plus Morrison and Whedon did some good stuff with him to bring that out.





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Flash
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posted on 10-21-2011 at 01:41 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm actually a pretty big fan of both the Cyclops and Wolverine camps because, at least in Schism, they seemed to be playing against their character types all while still behaving in a fairly logical way.

Wolverine is interesting, but I think in a lot of ways we're just getting something already explored in the Wolverine and the X-men cartoon that only lasted a season (excellent stuff for anyone who hasn't seen it), so they're not exactly breaking new ground. The other thing with Wolverine, outside of his over exposure, is that he's not the feral and violent character we first encountered years ago and has grown into enough of a fatherly character over the years with the likes of Kitty Pryde, Jubilee, X-23... ect. So the Wolverine stuff is interesting and all, but its really just what we've already seen befor on a somewhat bigger scale.

I'm far more intrigued by Cyclops as this seems like such a fresh path for him, even though you could kind of point to things like booting Xavier out of the X-men, the creation of X-force (ironically headed by Wolverine) and the establishment of Utopia as sign posts that he's finally just become what he's always been destined to become. In saying that though, this is a character who despite being hunted and targetted since he was a young boy has always fought against what could be said to be his nature, and yet here we are.... Not a man who has given up on his beliefs, but at least someone who has had to comprimise and accept some hard realities.... that's the kind of character I'm interested in seeing explored as I read their exploits.

So yeah, Cyke is the far more interesting, and I hope given that Magneto has thrown his lot in with him that they take some time early on to keep Scott's X-men from falling into the former Magneto school of thought, but instead push his beliefs to new areas. Still though, it could be intersting to see them explore Logan fight against his own instincts and to have them really run with a story that was previously cut down too soon when Wolverine and the X-men got cancelled.

My only fear is that with the Cable and Hope stuff that's looming, the two teams might find themselves at odds with one another sooner rather than later. I think a nice year or two would be a good amount of time before you start adding some friction between the two camps.

As for other Marvel stuff, it looks like The Hulk is poised to be the big attention getter in the next little while as they are relaunching him with a new creative team which includes the return of Mark Silvestri in a story that will feature Bruce and the Hulk being seperated...

I tend to buy my DC books as weekly comics and the Marvel stuff in trades, but after having checked out Schism and some of the Hulk previews I'm pretty tempted to start buying Marvel weekly again... back to the poor house.

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MrJustinB
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posted on 10-21-2011 at 11:30 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm a pretty big Hulk guy, but doesn't it feel like they've done the whole separating Hulk and Bruce thing a bunch of times already?
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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 10-23-2011 at 04:13 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Was it just me or was all the Red Hulk and Red She Hulk stuff pretty lame?

Also, what happened with Cyke and almost becoming a Horseman? When was that and is it in a TPB?





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Biff_Manly
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posted on 10-24-2011 at 11:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
When does Rainbow Hulk come out...of the closet. It's a double issue so this "must mean something."





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posted on 10-25-2011 at 01:03 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think the whole Red Hulk thing was a case of;

A) They kept the secret too long

B) The big reveal wasn't really anything special much like all the speculation over who Mr. Blue was (the Bruce Jones run).

I had thought that introducing the villain in the hero's book would be a cool way to kick off a new book, and was under the impression that this is what the Red Hulk's initial storylines were going to kinda be about, but then I think they went on way too long before ultimately revealing the character to be one of Hulk's constant re-occuring characters. Maybe the dangers of a character becoming too popular too soon, and thus forcing them to drag things out? (then again, IMO Loeb's endings are sometimes a little choppy, so maybe that was how it was planned all along)

I'm hoping with the new series they will try and take the time to introduce some new supporting characters, and use the split between Hulk and Banner to take a long term look at the two sides of the personality. The big rumour is that their retconning the Hulk's history to say that he's never killed anyone... which may or may not be reality already as I think they've kinda played fast and loose with the idea of their being victims from one of his rampages (I think the Jones run said that the Chicago stuff was a set up by the end). I'd also be curious to see what they do with Bruce having a normal life, since I've always seen him as at least in part not a good guy in that he was creating a bomb before getting caught in his own blast.

Just as an FYI for any Hulk fans I'd recommend Planet Hulk and World War Hulk... it's basically one big story available in two TP's and has been one of the better takes on Hulk in a long time. Basically some of the bigger name heroes of Earth (Mr. Fantastic, Doctor Strange, Black Bolt... the illuminati) decide to launch Hulk into space as he's seen as too destructive and he lands on a planet caught up in a bit of a civil war. Hulk winds up being enslaved and forced to become a gladiator with a whole bunch of other stuff happening. By the time he makes it back to Earth he's pissed and looking for revenge against many of Earth's heroes... so if you've ever wanted to see Hulk beat the shit out of Iron man, this one's worth the read.

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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 10-25-2011 at 01:26 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I think at some point during the World War Hulk storyline (or maybe right after), they said something idiotic like "Even when he was destroying whole cities, he was always subconsciously calculating how to do it without any casualties." Dumb, just like in the Hulk movie where they had to always show soldiers safely exiting destroyed tanks and choppers.

I much prefer the Ultimate version where he is a killer (and eats people) because it makes him more dangerous and more nuanced character.





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Stu
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posted on 10-25-2011 at 04:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Something from the Fear Itself prologue about Hulk confused me. Can someone explain why when he's been seperated from Banner, Hulk is SMARTER? He practically sneaks back into New York, and has eloquent inner narration, using pronouns and everything.





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Flash
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posted on 10-26-2011 at 09:51 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The Hulk has probably suffered from inconsistent writing moreso than any other character out there, and a lot of that probably stems from A) the whole stereotype that big and strong must always go hand in hand with dumb, and that B) popular representations like the old Bixby/Ferrigno(sp?) show just depicted him as a mindless beast, so the comics followed suit.

I haven't read any of the original Hulk stuff in a long time, but I think way back in the beginning he was treated as not being just a dumb brute; maybe not "Banner" smart, but certainly smart enough to go sneaking around and not get caught provided he wasn't giving into one of his temper tantrums or child like snits. I think it was Joe Casey who did a recent Avengers origins/year one type story where he sewed in some older stories and updated them a bit, and part of that story featured the Hulk joining a circus and posing for a time as some kind of clown robot (I have to believe this was a redo on a 1960's idea because I just can't believe an idea that bad would fly in this day and age....

You could also look at the Joe Fixit grey Hulk period where the Hulk was written to be pretty smart, and I think that was supposed to be a throw back to when the character first appeared and was grey skinned, so there is other prescedent for a "smart" Hulk.

In saying all of this, the idea that the Hulk is somehow able to topple entire buildings and yet somehow calculate a way to do so that allows for no human casualties is kinda dumb. Marvel has been retconning characters a lot more than DC has in recent years, so I would expect that most mentions of the Hulk and Banner splitting or merging in the past are going to be down played, as will most mentions of some of his bigger urban smash-a- thons.

I love comic books, but I'm becoming more and more convinced the best way to read them is to almost exclusively do so via trade paperbacks as most publishers seem to be taking a pick up and read it approach in order to sell to the casual or new fans.

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MrJustinB
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posted on 11-10-2011 at 03:26 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Anyone else read Point One? That Ultron story looks the most interesting to me. Kinda curious how it's all coming about. Didn't really give a crap about the other story bits.

Is it just me, or does this idea of showing glimpses of future stories seem real DCish? I'm thinking of all the hints written on Rip Hunter's chalkboard during the Booster stories.

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posted on 11-12-2011 at 05:40 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I've jumped back on board and picked up most of this month's X books. I also grabbed Avenging Spidey #1, but I haven't read it yet.

I saw a preview for the upcoming season one stuff and that seems like it might be really fun.





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posted on 11-24-2011 at 04:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Fantastic Four #600
Hickman's Future Foundation has been a mostly enjoyable read so far, hindered only by the fact he was writing it really as a continuation of whatever he did in Fantastic Four, and the newer series comes across like he assumes everyone knows all that stuff beforehand, so there's a few things brought up that I don't feel properly clued in on the way I should. I really enjoyed #600 though as it's basically a bumper sized issue and is virtually all new content, which is sadly not something you can always count on from milestone issues(I remember Ultimate Spidey #100 had a longer story, but padded out the rest of its extra page count with slapped together recap of the saga so far and I think some alternate covers. JUST GIVE US MORE STORY! I don't want behind the scenes stuff, sketches or creator interviews. That's what CBR, Newsarama and the like are meant to be for!). Anyway, like I said, Hickman writes all the content of the issue, which does actually advance the story and helped fill me in a bit on stuff I didn't know so much about, and features several stories with a different artist on each that was cool to see. I don't know though about the fact they're going back to doing Fantastic Four while keeping FF going too with the shifted focus to the kids, because I get the feeling I'm going to need to buy both titles to be properly clued into what's going on in either.





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posted on 12-23-2011 at 07:29 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Just throwing this out here top maybe open up a discussion, but I am really digging this current run on Generation Hope and it might be my favorite of a crop of really solid X books.

Uncanny X-Force is pretty good right now, too. The Dark Angel saga got pretty convoluted, but it's an enjoyable book and I really dig having Fantomex and Deadpool in one title.





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posted on 12-23-2011 at 07:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I read Schism two nights ago. I like the idea behind the split, with their conflicted ideologies, but I have to say, I found it fucking ridiculous that Cyke and Logan started fighting right as the sentinel was coming. Also, they've fought hundreds of sentinels in the past, I don't know why this one was played up as so much more of a threat than the others (sure, it was a new type of sentinel, but after all they've been through, geez).

I don't know, maybe it's because I didn't read the X-men comics leading up to it, as I stopped reading after Whedon's Astonishing run. But I was pretty aware that Scott became a general-type character with his "army" of X-Men and that Logan was his most trusted lieutentant. The two of tem all of the sudden fighting while this looming threat was on its way seemed so off to me, no matter how much tension they've had over the years.

[Edited on 12-23-2011 by salmonjunkie]






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posted on 12-24-2011 at 04:12 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
You needed to read Generation Hope 8 I think to understand why Logan really wanted to fight Scott then and there. Scott told one of Hope's Lights to do what was necessary in a conflict and Logan, of all people, thought Scott was wrong to tell a 14-year old to kill if necessary.
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MrJustinB
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posted on 12-25-2011 at 10:38 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Anyone else digging Wolverine and the X-men? Good sense of humour. That pink haired kid is kind of awesome. Looking forward to the mini upcoming.
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posted on 12-29-2011 at 01:57 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrJustinB
Anyone else digging Wolverine and the X-men? Good sense of humour. That pink haired kid is kind of awesome. Looking forward to the mini upcoming.


I enjoy the book but can't stand Chris Bachalo's art anymore. Which is weird, because when I was a kid and he drew the first several issues of Gen. X I loved it. I'm enjoying Uncanny a lot more, but that's also because a) I like Cyclops better than Wolverine and b) the first arc has featured Mr. Sinister and Mr. Sinister is to my comic books what Dolph Ziggler is to my wrestling shows. I still think Generation Hope is the best X-book atm. Great writing, great characters, and the team just encountered an amnesiac Sebastian Shaw, which has a lot of interesting possibilities. Marvel is also about to launch a monthly Age of Apocalypse, which I'm all over.

The Magneto miniseries has been pretty good so far, and I picked up Carnage U.S.A. #1 and it looks like it's also going to be a fun miniseries if you aren't completely burned out on the whole symbiote thing.

Avengers: X-Sanction #1 is out and I believe it's supposed to set in motion the events leading up to the summer's big Avengers vs. X-Men event, which is in turn supposedly a set up for the return of Phoenix. I've honestly never been a fan of either Jean Grey or the Phoenix entity, but I'm interested in seeing where that story is going to go, since Rachel Summers is a semi-major player in Wolverine & The X-Men right now, Hope seems like she could reasonably be a conduit for the Phoenix, and Cyclops has been shacking up with Emma Frost since Jean's death. Lots of potential there.





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posted on 12-30-2011 at 04:37 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
A monthly AoA book? That should be pretty cool. Still re-read that series every few years.





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posted on 1-9-2012 at 12:11 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Is the current Daredevil series worth getting before I've caught up with the stuff after Bendis' run? I heard it's good, and with a really different tone.





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posted on 1-9-2012 at 04:56 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I just started reading Brubaker's Daredevil which is right after Bendis's run. Well worth it. It's a continuation of Bendis's story, and very well done so far.






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