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Author: Subject: The New 52 or DCnU...or what happened to my comics?
MrJustinB
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 04:22 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The New 52 or DCnU...or what happened to my comics?

Ok, I know there are some fellow geeks on here.

Just wondering what you guys think of the massive renumbering ( it's NOT A REBOOT, damnit!)

Just looking through the 52 new titles, I can see a few that will probably not make it out of the year.



First of all, I have a hard time believing that the WildStorm stuff have a chance of really surviving. Was anyone craving a Grifter comic? Also, how many more times are we going to give it a go with Firestorm? Oh, now there are multiple Firestorms? Oh joy.

What do you guys think will stay or go when they start making cuts?

[Edited on 7-30-2011 by MrJustinB]





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whyme
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 04:33 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Blue Beetle MUST stay this time!

And Booster Gold better not be affected by this.

How long till the next reboot? Final Crisis was only like a year or two ago.

Heck they are not even changing anything GL or Batman so what is the point of this.

MY BRAIN HURTS!!!!





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MrJustinB
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 04:39 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So, Booster lost his own title though, right? But, he gets to lead JLI now, which is kinda cool. I'll miss the time jumping stuff.

As far as Beetle goes, the Jamie stuff has been fun. But, someone on another forum pointed out that if you're going to bring a bunch of people back, or change some back stories, why can't we have Ted Kord back?





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salmonjunkie
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 05:00 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
So is this how they bring back Bruce Wayne or do Dick and Damian stay Batman and Robin?






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posted on 7-30-2011 at 05:10 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
So is this how they bring back Bruce Wayne or do Dick and Damian stay Batman and Robin?


I'm pretty far out of the comics loop (but was way into them in the 90's), but the last Batman graphic novel I was able to get my hands on had Bruce Wayne returning and starting a "Batman Inc." deal that was going to have people fighting crime in various cities across the world. It seemed like it was leaving the door open to have both Bruce and Dick as Batman, but just in different cities. I have no idea what happened after that though.

quote:
Originally posted by MrJustinB
Just wondering what you guys think of the massive renumbering ( it's NOT A REBOOT, damnit!)


So are they keeping the old continuity but just starting fresh? And when I heard about this, I was surprised that they're doing 52 titles, as it seems like a vast majority of those aren't going to last.

Also, as an old school Image fanboy, it's kind of interesting to see the Wildstorm stuff integrated into the DC universe. Though I don't know if I'd have gone with Stormwatch, Grifter, and Voodoo as relaunch titles.





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MrJustinB
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 05:12 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
They brought back Bruce a while ago. He started up Batman Inc, a worldwide batman force publicly funded by Wayne Enterprises. The new Batman/Robin will be Bruce/Damian. Then we have Knightwing, Reb Robin (Drake) and Red Hood (Todd). And then there's apparently a character in Africa called Batwing, coming out of the Batman Inc. series.





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MrJustinB
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 05:19 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the goon


So are they keeping the old continuity but just starting fresh? And when I heard about this, I was surprised that they're doing 52 titles, as it seems like a vast majority of those aren't going to last.

Also, as an old school Image fanboy, it's kind of interesting to see the Wildstorm stuff integrated into the DC universe. Though I don't know if I'd have gone with Stormwatch, Grifter, and Voodoo as relaunch titles.


So, here's what I understand from what I've read coming out of ComiCon. I may have misunderstood, so if someone can shed light, that'd be great. Action Comics and JLA will pull back 5 years, explaining the differences in this new continuity. But, at the same time, a lot of comics, such as Green Lantern, where Hal had his ring taken away and Sinestro is now a Green Lantern, will have no changes. It's a "have their cake and eat it too" system.

Apparently, Clark will be the first recognizable superhero, and Bruce has been working as an urban legend. JLA #1 will be Hal meeting Bruce for the first time, and immediately screwing up Bruce's secrecy (is he real or not?) by shining a big green construct near him while the police are chasing him.





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posted on 7-30-2011 at 02:42 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
What DC is doing is that everything that they like about a character's history still exists but it exists in a small 5 year window. So Blackest Night happened, and Brightest Day happened, and the Crisis's happened, but they all happened within the last 5 years to de-age the characters.

It's a stupid idea and having been at comic-con and going to a lot of the DC panels, I don't even think the writers/editors know why/what they're doing. They think this will boost sales, but it won't. They had a good idea with a 2.99 price point and with same-day digital, but this renumbering reboot restarting is a horrendous idea and nothing I heard from anyone makes me think they really put a lot of thought into it.

They're basically shuffling a lot of characters that were doing great the last few years aside and focusing on characters that have been struggling the last few years in the comics. Let's cancel Power Girl and Zatanna and change Batgirl again and "fix" Oracle and instead we'll make Harley Quinn a hooker leading the Suicide Squad and give Firestorm their 800th chance to make a book work.

It's just bad ideas all around.

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posted on 7-30-2011 at 03:10 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
^

Word. This is why I really only read horror comics now. The superhero scene has gotten so stupid with all the ret-conning and re-imaginings that it's pointless to even bother trying to keep up with it anymore. I can't complain about the movie versions pissing all over established character canon and history anymore when the main titles keep doing it all the time too.

How to make comics better? How about a five-year moratorium on all crossovers, yearly "crisis" events, any and all ret-conning, or killing off any major characters just to bring them back a year later with another overpriced "1st Issue Spectacular!". And make it punishable by firing squad for any editor or writer at DC and Marvel who even thinks about doing it.





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posted on 7-30-2011 at 03:42 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The thing that sucks even more about this re-whatever it is by DC is that I think their comics the last year or 2 have been really strong. The Green Lantern books have been really good. The Bat books with Dick as Batman, Stephanie as Batgirl, Tim as Red Robin, and Damien as Robin with Bruce as an overseer world-version of Batman have been great. Even Superman (A comic I normally loathe) was really good with his "Grounded" storyline. Plus all the side and secondary characters that I was enjoying like Power Girl, Zatanna, Green Arrow. And with regards to the team books, the current version of the JLA is just a great team and the recent Generation Lost comic was one of DC's best comics in a long time as the JLI is a great team. And I know they're coming back, but it's not going to be the same.

I just think DC is making a monumental mistake here.

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MrJustinB
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posted on 7-30-2011 at 11:38 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
You know, the first thing I thought when they announced all this was "Oh, maybe they'll retcon out the whole Cry For Justice" crap". Nope. Let's keep Red Arrow a cokehead with one arm, and keep Ollie a killer.

Plus, no JSA. Fuck. That.





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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 7-31-2011 at 01:26 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Voodoo gets her own comic? This might work as a Marvel Max comic (do they still have those?) but otherwise I don't remember her being very interesting. Does she even have any useful powers?





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MrJustinB
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posted on 7-31-2011 at 01:33 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Priscilla Kitaen was an exotic dancer before being rescued by the WildC.A.T.s from the Daemonites. Voodoo had a gift called the "Sight", allowing her to perceive if a person was possessed by a Daemonite, and being able to separate daemonites from the bodies they were possessing which made her very important to both the WildC.A.T.s and the Daemonites. Voodoo joined the WildC.A.T.S and revealed even greater powers, such as telepathy and the ability to develop animal-like traits, such as sprouting claws from her fingertips. She was later trained by Zealot in the martial arts of The Coda and developed an attraction towards Spartan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voodoo_%28Wildstorm%29

So, in other words, no.

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Stu
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posted on 7-31-2011 at 01:36 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrJustinB
You know, the first thing I thought when they announced all this was "Oh, maybe they'll retcon out the whole Cry For Justice" crap". Nope. Let's keep Red Arrow a cokehead with one arm, and keep Ollie a killer.

Plus, no JSA. Fuck. That.

I've heard the opposite on Ollie and Arsenal actually. That Arsenal has both arms now, and probably never had a daughter. Meanwhile, the way he's drawn, Ollie looks a lot younger now, so who knows what his history is now/
JSA aren't necessarilly gone, just not getting mentioned. I think the guy who's writing Mr. Terrific says there'll be addressed, and while Superman is the first "Superhero", in explaining that, they've said before him there have been people with superpowers who the public haven't trusted, so what a "Superhero" is seems to be how they're regarded by the public at large. JSA could be reimagined as a secret society of superheroes who operated without the public's knowledge, and still have most of their history intact. In fact, James Robinson is writing a Shade Miniseries which he says will fit in with the relaunch and begins with an attack on the Starman Museum, which means THAT lineage still happened. Also Batman was apparently active a few years before Superman was. And Stormwatch have been working behind the scenes in the DC Universe for a long time and considered the "Superheroes" to be amateurs compared to themselves.
Anyway, there's a fair few things I'm looking forward to such as Batwoman's ongoing, Mr. Terrific, Demon Knights, All-Star Western, Justice League, Action Comics, Snyder's Batman, and Batwing, however on that one, I feel Nightrunner, the french algerian muslim Batman Inc. operative would have been a better choice to give a spinoff as he's already gotten a lot of work put into him and his area(including his own equivalent of Arkham), while Batwing's not been fleshed out really.
Of course there's things that suck to lose, but I'm also kinda relieved in a way as my pull list will be made a lot smaller and more affordable by this new lineup.

[Edited on 31-7-11 by Stu]





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MrJustinB
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posted on 7-31-2011 at 03:08 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stu

I've heard the opposite on Ollie and Arsenal actually. That Arsenal has both arms now, and probably never had a daughter. Meanwhile, the way he's drawn, Ollie looks a lot younger now, so who knows what his history is now/
JSA aren't necessarilly gone, just not getting mentioned. I think the guy who's writing Mr. Terrific says there'll be addressed, and while Superman is the first "Superhero", in explaining that, they've said before him there have been people with superpowers who the public haven't trusted, so what a "Superhero" is seems to be how they're regarded by the public at large. JSA could be reimagined as a secret society of superheroes who operated without the public's knowledge, and still have most of their history intact. In fact, James Robinson is writing a Shade Miniseries which he says will fit in with the relaunch and begins with an attack on the Starman Museum, which means THAT lineage still happened. Also Batman was apparently active a few years before Superman was. And Stormwatch have been working behind the scenes in the DC Universe for a long time and considered the "Superheroes" to be amateurs compared to themselves.


[Edited on 31-7-11 by Stu]


Huh. That's actually a relief. But, I read in DC's advert/magazine dealie that Arsenal is going to be an outcast, in a group of outcasts, lead by Jason Todd. Unless they peel back to Arsenal being just a recovering junkie, or something, I don't think he'd otherwise fit.

The Shade mini sounds interesting. Thanks for the head's up.





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posted on 7-31-2011 at 04:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
According to Didio at comic-con, JSA never existed.
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posted on 7-31-2011 at 10:36 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm not a fan of this at all. I'm largely a DC guy and I'm pretty much thinking this will be a good time to jump off of several books as I've been increasingly unhappy with a lot of DC's offerings of late.

I think what chaps my ass the most is that I think Detective comics #900 was slated for just over a year from now, so I have no doubt that we're going to be going right back to that original number on most of the books soon enough.

I think my biggest problem with DC is that they are almost afraid to tell new stories. Dick coming into his own as Batman is new ground. Bruce Wayne as a father is new ground. Clark and Lois's marriage maybe being in big time trouble after he took off to New Krypton and wandered around America would be a great story to tell. Instead we're getting reboot number 4 or 5 so that the characters never change or evolve.

I know the whole "Ultimate" universe is a bad word to DC, but considering the sales figures that line does for Marvel, to say nothing of the fact that they're keeping long time readers happy by not consantly rebooting the main universe (BND Spidey not withstanding), you'd think DC would look at something like that...

Imagine actual Clark Kent Superboy stories from day one, and Action comics stories that would've featured Clark and Lois having problems and trying to raise Christopher Kent.

To continue my rant, Morrison's desire to re-incorporate pre-crisis weird stories into the present DC mythos was a headache enough as he dealth with Batman, I'm kind of dreading Superman in his hands as we get more hypertime crap... it worked excellently on All Star Superman, but not in the present continuity. In saying that I will probably continue to buy the two superman titles, the two batman titles that matter, GL, JLA, and because I like Johns Aquaman, and because I'm loving Snyder Swampthing.

If I ever see Dan Didio on the street I will round house him.

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Operation Retard
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posted on 7-31-2011 at 11:32 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
the teen titans stuff irks me. first of all the costumes are ATROCIOUS. seriously holy shit. the greatest concept in the world can't make up for those costumes.

i'm happy to see GL is continuing as is, i'm NOT happy to see JLI isn't.

i hope blue beetle is canceled by issue 4. fuck jaime reyes

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MrJustinB
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posted on 8-1-2011 at 04:42 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Out of all this negativity, I do want to say that this might be the most I've ever been interested in Aquaman. What's the chances Johns does for Arthur what he did for GL and (your mileage may vary) Flash, and make him exciting and fun?





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Operation Retard
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posted on 8-1-2011 at 02:18 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
i've hated the flash since barry came back. barry stinks. i loved johns' original run on the flash, but flash rebirth was a huge disappointment and i had to force myself through the first issue of the regular series and couldn't bring myself to finish the 2nd.

i enjoyed peter david's run on aquaman, but this post-reboot run doesn't interest me.

for the record, this is my intended post-reboot DC read:

JLA
JLI
batman and robin
GL
GLC
GL new gardians
red lanterns

and the following are getting a one-arc trial run:

action comics
nightwing
teen titans

nothing else comes even close to interesting me.

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Operation Retard
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posted on 8-1-2011 at 06:03 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
i'd just like to add (OMG double post!) that i actually didn't realize how not diverse my DC plans were until today when i made that post and had it written down in front of me. i didn't realize how little i was interested in. of half of what i'm reading is a GL book.

if it wasn't for the fact that batman and robin was being done by tomasi and gleason i wouldn't be reading any bat books. i'm tired of morrisons shit and david finch should stick to drawing.

JLA seems like a must read if you're gonna read anything at all, and JLI is my shit so of course i'm gonna read that.

and then there's my 3 "trial run" books. i call them trial runs because unlike those other books i'm not actually interested in them. they didn't peak my interests i'm just givng them a try because of what they are. i've always loved the titans, and more importantly in the last 20 years i've never not read a book starring tim drake. as bad as the costumes and concepts they've talked about pretty much disgust me, i have to give the book a try.

in the case of nightwing, i'm faily neutral. nothing i've heard has particularly turned me on to or turned me off of the book, but it's nightwing and i've always been a fan so i'll give it a try.

and then there's action. as i said, i'm tired of morrison, but it's superman. if they're telling a story about how his career started i'll read it. if it sucks i'll bail out, but i'll try it.

all that other shit they're doing and it doesn't do a thing for me. kinda surprising cuz a lot of it is stuff i'm usually a fan of.

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Stu
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posted on 8-1-2011 at 09:43 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
While I'm more um, "optimistic" than you lot, let me add my own sincere negativity to things with
FUCK ROB LIEFELD'S HAWK AND DOVE. Jesus Christ.





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MrJustinB
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posted on 8-1-2011 at 11:06 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
^ this, a million times this.





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posted on 8-2-2011 at 12:44 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
It just bugs me that in recent years DC can't seem to get their shit together while they chase the non-comic Smallville fans and the handful of people who might pick up a book after watching the Dark Knight at the expense of long time readers.

I mean outside of not being that good and making their whole "universe" more confusing to new readers WTF did "52" accomplish? I mean outside of Zero Hour fixing the Hawkman stuff the 1986 "Crisis" gave us twenty years of continuity, but we've had several changes since then as they try to tie a new jump on point into some big event for new readers. If I'd bothered to waste my money on Wolfman's (I like Wolfman, I just saw more DC crap coming) recent History of the DCU 12 parter I'd be seriously pissed as it sounds like that's gone now. Didn't Johns just finish his "Secret Origin" on Superman to make him more Smallville friendly 2 years ago and now we'll have another complete reboot?

I need to go watch Justice League unlimited again to remember why I like DC....

quote:
Originally posted by Operation Retard
if it wasn't for the fact that batman and robin was being done by tomasi and gleason i wouldn't be reading any bat books. i'm tired of morrisons shit and david finch should stick to drawing


I'm not a fan of Tomasi... I don't hate him the way I do Didio, I just never got into his GL Corps stuff, and some of the mini series I've read of his. Question, do you know why his credit is always "Plot and Words by" instead of just "Written by" like everyone else...? I know he got his start as an editor... does it fall out from him scripting other people's stuff when he started?

Otherwise I didn't hate Morrisons stuff, I just think he's lost focus on telling good stories and gets caught up in his little "experiments", like can you take 1960's Batman campy children's tales and incorporate them into the now... yeah, but why bother? He also seems obsessed with working as many of his own lame creations or abandoned characters into prominence, and they suck for the most part. DC's copyright lawyers must love him though....

Finch is still pretty new to writing a bat book so I'm prepared to give him more time as I'm impressed that he is trying to create something of his own instead of doing Joker story 20092849298 like most new writers do. Writing isn't his strong suite, but he is trying to use guys like the Penguin in different ways, so I"m prepared to give him time.

Tony Daniel isn't doing a bad job. I think he's aiming a little too big so some of his stories are kind of all over the map, but again credit for actualyl trying to create some of his own villains.

Scott Snyder is the best Batman writer I think we've gotten in a long time. I like how his current run is about Gordon, but he kind of slips batman to and from the foreground as needed, and in a way that keeps everyone involved. Also his stuff is really dark and works for Detective comics because it feels like a real crime thing... really not sure why DC is flipping him onto Batman and Daniels over to Detective....

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posted on 8-2-2011 at 01:01 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
It just bugs me that in recent years DC can't seem to get their shit together while they chase the non-comic Smallville fans and the handful of people who might pick up a book after watching the Dark Knight at the expense of long time readers.

I dunno, DC are way more subtle about how the movies and tv affect the comics. They mostly just do a tie in comic and maybe bring a character being featured in a movie into the spolight more, whereas Marvel will change their characters looks and personality to fit how they are in another medium. Stupid bald tattooed head Blade we have now, and Bullseye adopting the Colin Farrell look now and again. I enjoy Invincible Iron Man, but the amount of ways they try to play off the movies can be pretty annoying at times.

quote:
I mean outside of not being that good and making their whole "universe" more confusing to new readers WTF did "52" accomplish?

Well plenty of people liked it as a story, but if you want accomplishments, it gave us the new Question, helped turn Booster Gold back into a viable leading character, and it showed that weekly/bi-weekly series can work, and gave us stuff like Wednesday Comics(unfortunately, also Countdown).





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