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Author: Subject: Rise and Fall of WCW
ThePunisher
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 03:31 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Rise and Fall of WCW

Official trailer is out:



And another:



[Edited on 8-20-2009 by ThePunisher]

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the goon
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 04:35 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I can't wait for this. I thought the Rise And Fall Of ECW DVD was extremely well done and I hope this one is as good (though I expect the WCW one to have a little more of the WWE bias than the ECW one did).
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nOOb
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 04:53 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I have to wonder how long the WWE has been waiting to throw Sting into one of their DVDs as a main highlight.





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MayhemNX
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 04:55 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I know everyone has access to this magical "interwebs" so you can probably find this, but for those too lazy to search for it, here's the match listing...

Personally I've been wanting a disc set to come out with the Steiner/Sting Luger SUperbrawl match for a long time. I remember it as being very good and have wanted to rewatch it for a while. I Could be wrong though...I remembered Vader/Flair Starcade as good and...wow....wrong...

$1,000 Challenge Match
Ric Flair vs. Magnum T.A.
NWA World Championship Wrestling June 15, 1985

Sting, Lex Luger & Barry Windham vs. Ric Flair, Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard (w/ JJ Dillon)
The Main Event April 3, 1988

United States Championship Match
Dusty Rhodes vs. Barry Windham
Great American Bash July 10, 1988

NWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Ricky The Dragon Steamboat
Chi-Town Rumble February 20, 1989

The Rock n Roll Express vs. The Midnight Express
Wrestle War February 25, 1990

NWA United States Tag Team Championship Match
The Midnight Express vs. The Southern Boys
Great American Bash July 7, 1990

WCW World Tag Team Championship Match
The Steiner Brothers vs. Sting & Lex Luger
SuperBrawl May 19, 1991

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Sting vs. Big Van Vader
Great American Bash July 12, 1992

WCW International World Heavyweight Championship Match
Rick Rude vs. Sting
Spring Stampede April 17, 1994

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan
Bash at the Beach July 17, 1994

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Ric Flair vs. The Giant
Nitro April 29, 1996

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko
Clash of the Champions XXXIII August 15, 1996

War Games Match
Team WCW- Sting, Lex Luger, Ric Fair & Arn Anderson vs. Team n.W.o.- Hollywood Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall & a Mystery Partner
Fall Brawl September 15, 1996

United States Championship Ladder Match
Syxx vs. Eddie Guerrero
Souled Out January 25, 1997

United States Championship No Disqualification Match
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko
Uncensored March 16, 1997

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Title vs. Mask Match
Chris Jericho vs. Juventud Guerrera
SuperBrawl VIII February 22, 1998

WCW Unified World Tag Team Championship Match
The Steiner Brothers vs. The Outsiders
SuperBrawl VIII February 22, 1998

Diamond Dallas Page & Karl Malone vs. Hollywood Hulk Hogan & Dennis Rodman
Bash at the Beach July 12, 1998

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Goldberg vs. Diamond Dallas Page
Halloween Havoc October 25, 1998

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Booker T vs. Lance Storm
Nitro August 7, 2000





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Joeldacat
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 05:22 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I suppose we'll find out in due time, but for this disc set in particular, I'm really curious how revisionist Benoit history will affect their telling of the WCW story. He was a big part of the "glass ceiling" atmosphere that so many decried.





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montecarl
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 05:47 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
There's plenty of other guys they can focus on for the "glass ceiling" effect, such as Jericho, Eddie, and Malenko
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CheMateo
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 07:27 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
I'm really excited about this DVD set. Naturally I do have some fears that this documentary will have some bias and revisionist history.

I believe this is from PWInsider.

quote:
World Wrestling Entertainment is currently looking at the following potential DVDs for future releases:

Talent Profiles:
*Chris Jericho
*CM Punk
*Ricky Steamboat
*Randy Orton
*Goldberg
*Sting
*Brock Lesnar
*John Morrison

Compilation Titles
*Clash of the Champions.
*Best of the Elimination Chamber
*Compilation of Giants and Monsters.
*Wargames
*Best of Monday Night Raw: 1993
*In Your House
*"Craziest" WWE Moments

Special thanks to Jim for his help. Jim sent word as well as that WWE sent out a survey regarding fans' DVD buying habits and gauge how fans might be interested in WWE bouts and product for download via online systems, such as PS3S.


I think it is way too early for a CM Punk or John Morrison release. I would like to see a Jericho, Clash of the Champions, Wargames, Best of Monday Night Raw: 1993, and Sting set. I wish WWE would run another weekly show at the Manhattan Center.

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 07:59 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The "Best of Monday Night RAW: 1993" is a nice idea that I've been wanting WWE to do for years now. Although I'm less interested in them doing it with their OWN stuff and more interested in seeing yearly recaps of places like ECW, WCCW, AWA, WCW, FCW, and whatever else they have. A GREAT way to sell the history of wrestling and you can all but guarantee if I buy and enjoy one "season" I'll buy the rest.

quote:
Originally posted by montecarl
There's plenty of other guys they can focus on for the "glass ceiling" effect, such as Jericho, Eddie, and Malenko

While in general you're correct there is one fairly major point Benoit is necessary for. When the world champion of your company walks out because he doesn't trust the new bookers that's impactful. They can still tell the story with Malenko, Eddie, and Saturn (I assume Douglass is still blackballed) and Rey can speak on his role in that and how he almost walked with them. But that is missing a fairly big piece of the puzzle. Still, otherwise Benoit's a fairly minor footnote in the WCW story that can be easily glossed over.

I would rush out to buy this DVD if I wasn't afraid that (a) the WWE bias would ruin it completely or (b) WWE's recent laziness as far as DVDs wouldn't sneak in. As it is I'm worried I'll be disappointed so I'm going to wait and see how others feel about it first.

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nOOb
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 08:09 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
WWE would be very smart to throw out a Brock Lesnar DVD right now, since it would capitalize on his huge popularity. And if Sting is on his way out of TNA, they might as well throw as much money at him as they need to to get him under contract until at least Wrestlemania so they can have even one WWE match on a Sting DVD.





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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 08:43 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CheMateo
I think it is way too early for a CM Punk or John Morrison release.


On the one hand, Morrison hasn't gone far enough in his career for a career-retrospective DVD. On the other hand, he has more than enough awesome matches. Just this year alone it seems like people are praising his weekly matches to the moon. But he also has a ladder match with Hardy, that 4-way tag ladder match where Mercury got destroyed, a 3-way with Benjamin and Carlito for IC (at some Vengeance), multiple MITB matches, and probably some good ones from ECW and his team with Miz.

Punk is definitely too early. Even though he's already champ, I can't think of that many great matches that he's been in. However, if they can use any of his indie stuff, it might be worth it.

Brock would be awesome. Goldberg and Sting are surprising because they really did nothing in WWE. I know it's money in the bank but it's still heavily pushing someone else's star.

Has Big Show not gotten his own DVD yet?

EDIT:

Also, maybe the fact that his DVD is in the works means that they're already planning to give Morrison a championship run later this year. That would give them a nice capper for the DVD which could be released shortly thereafter.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by theflammablemanimal]

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 08:49 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Its just cheap and opportunistic is what it is. Can you put together an hour or 2 of Morrison or Punk matches worth buying and owning? Yeah, probably. But the reality is that then 5 years down the line when there's actually enough of a career to do a proper retrospective and DVD many of those matches are already on a DVD. So its just a lot of unnecessary repetition.

I don't blame WWE because it makes sense for them to market DVDs for popular guys RIGHT NOW to sell to people who might not be interested in old shit. And if you can make your consumers pay twice for the same thing its good for business. Its just sad to see because there's so much stuff they have from wrestling's history that it seems like a waste to put out "meh" DVDs like that which will probably be outdated in a few years.

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blackdragon
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 08:57 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by theflammablemanimal

Goldberg[...]surprising because [t]he[y] really did nothing in WWE.




Well, it wasn't the greatest run ever, but he did manage to win the World Title during a time where HHH buried every other challenger. He also beat the first and last Undisputed Champs on PPV and got to wear one of Gold Dust's wigs. It's a hell of a lot better than any other former WCW champion not named Booker or Hogan got.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by blackdragon]





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Matte
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 09:00 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
*Randy Orton

Could be a 3 disc set. Disc 1, Randy walking to the ring. Disc 2, Randy applying a chinlock. Disc 3, Randy trying to say words.
quote:
*Compilation of Giants and Monsters.

Not looking forward to 2 hours of Viscera, Kane, and Khali exchanging punches.
quote:
*"Craziest" WWE Moments

One can only imagine what would be put on this DVD.

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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 09:38 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
Its just cheap and opportunistic is what it is. Can you put together an hour or 2 of Morrison or Punk matches worth buying and owning? Yeah, probably. But the reality is that then 5 years down the line when there's actually enough of a career to do a proper retrospective and DVD many of those matches are already on a DVD. So its just a lot of unnecessary repetition.



That's certainly true, and in fact most of Morrison's best matches are probably on DVD already (the Hardy ladder match and that tag ladder match are both on the Ladder Match DVD). However, you would hope that 5 years from now Punk and Morrison would have a whole nother batch of awesome matches to make a DVD out of. After all, Morrison already has a DVD worth of awesome matches and he's just now getting his first main-event level push (which arguably hasn't even started since he hasn't been on PPV for a while).

Let's say nothing bad happens to Morrison, he gets pushed to the main event and it sticks. 5 years from now, he's probably got some more ladder matches, MITB matches, a rumble match, an elimination chamber match, an HITC match and some other nice title defenses. I'd buy that, just like I'd consider buying his greatest hits right now.

It's the same kind of logic as in a Ladder Match-type DVD. Sure, they just put out a nice 3-disc DVD, but 5 years from now they'll have another batch of Ladder matches (including Edge/Taker, Jeff/Edge, Jeff/Punk from this year alone) that they could release.

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 09:51 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Eh. I just rather have one DVD with 10 of his best and most important matches ever than 2 DVDs with 20 matches where those 10 are spread out and repeated and then a bunch of others that are good, just not as good or important.

Obviously your mileage varies from fan to fan and wrestler to wrestler. Like I said, I just personally wish they'd focus on the shit I've never seen before and/or the stuff they won't just churn out another DVD for in a couple of years. But I certainly understand the business strategy behind figuring there are more people interested in CM Punk than people like me who want to finally see the infamous Kevin Sullivan Florida stuff or revisit things I haven't seen in over 10 years. And to have it presented in an easily digested form.

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posted on 8-20-2009 at 11:12 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
The "Best of Monday Night RAW: 1993" is a nice idea that I've been wanting WWE to do for years now.


I'm right there with you, as it's something I too have wanted to see the WWE do for a while now. The only minor thing I'd tweak is to have it not be exclusively RAW, but more of a "WWE: 1993" type thing where it would include matches/promos from PPVS, Superstars, etc. in addition to RAW. And I'm hoping it goes in chronological order, from January to December, so you can see the various feuds and storylines unfold.

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 8-20-2009 at 11:27 PM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Well yeah, that's basically what I meant with the rest of the stuff. I want historical retrospectives of wrestling. The easiest way to do that is by saying "WWF Year in Review: 1993", "WWF Year in Review: 1994", "WCW Year in Review: 1996", "WCCW Year in Review: 1985", etc. With all the promotions they have you could do a bunch of those every year and know that most who bought "WCW: 1994" will buy "WCW: 1995" and "WCW: 1996." And I'm sure they have a fear of using up all their material but seriously, that could take them decades to do.

If they were really ambitious they could advance on the "Monday Night Wars" idea from WWE 24/7 and just do "Wrestling: 1993" with all the events from WWF, WCW, ECW, and wherever that mattered. But that's an unwieldy project. Promotion year in reviews is a plausible idea that would take some work but would be guaranteed to steal ridiculous amounts of money from me. That Best of Monday Night RAW: 1993 one seems at least a step in that direction.

Even if I personally doubt WWE's ego will ever REALLY allow them to accept that other companies produced the same level of quality or interest that WWF has.
EDIT: Plus they've clearly moved away from the huge ambitious sets and back to the old "Colisseum" simple releases.

[Edited on 8-20-2009 by LuckyLopez]

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Jheaton
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 12:24 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
Its just cheap and opportunistic is what it is. Can you put together an hour or 2 of Morrison or Punk matches worth buying and owning? Yeah, probably. But the reality is that then 5 years down the line when there's actually enough of a career to do a proper retrospective and DVD many of those matches are already on a DVD. So its just a lot of unnecessary repetition.

I don't blame WWE because it makes sense for them to market DVDs for popular guys RIGHT NOW to sell to people who might not be interested in old shit. And if you can make your consumers pay twice for the same thing its good for business. Its just sad to see because there's so much stuff they have from wrestling's history that it seems like a waste to put out "meh" DVDs like that which will probably be outdated in a few years.




Just to play devil advocate for minute.

First WWE tends to aviod repeating matches on DVD's. For instance Jerry Lynn and RVD had three memorable ECW matches. 1 of those was on the ECW DVD and the other 2 where on the RVD DVD.

So I think the one problem with the DVD's is that theres so much other stuff that gets left off. HBK for example has a ton of matches that could be put on DVD. The Action Zone match with Desiel vs 1-2-3-Kid and Razor, The match agaisnt Owen with the winner getting the WM title shot, the IC match against Jeff Jarrett at one of those IYH PPV's. Theres so much good stuff out there elspecially from TV (you can buy the PPVs them selves) that kinda lost. I'd love to see a "From The vaults:HBK The Rare matches" DVD. This could help do a CM Punk DVD now. and in 5 years do a new one with Fresh matches. Basically its more footage getting released.





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LuckyLopez
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 12:52 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Yeah, like I said, mileage is going to vary for the individual. Personally I don't love watching Punk or Morrison wrestle so I really am good with their best 10 matches. I don't need their best 20 and I probably don't want them (especially since half of them are probably going to be Punk vs Morrison). But that's me. Others would like as many Morrison matches as they can get.

I guess what it comes down to is if WWE is going to produce 2 Morrison DVDs in 5 years knowing that they're only going to produce a finite number of DVDs total I rather they release 1 Morrison DVD and 1 DVD for... I don't know. Anyone of interest, really. I just rather watch one Morrison DVD done right and 1 DVD of another topic than 2 Morrison DVDs. Just personal preference. I get why a bigger Morrison fan would feel different.

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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 01:15 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLopez
I would rush out to buy this DVD if I wasn't afraid that (a) the WWE bias would ruin it completely or (b) WWE's recent laziness as far as DVDs wouldn't sneak in. As it is I'm worried I'll be disappointed so I'm going to wait and see how others feel about it first.



Well yeah, I think it's pretty clear from the trailer that it's going to be a complete hatchet job of Russo, Bischoff, and Nash. As well it probably should be, considering that those three guys played a huge part in WCW's collapse. As to your comment about WWE's recent laziness on DVD sets, I don't really know. I thought it was lazy not to do the Savage set as a documentary instead of just a match compliation, but I bought the Stars of the 90s set and thought it was actually extremely good. So I've got pretty high hopes for this one even though I know going in that it's going to be a brutally one-sided piece of revisionist history.

As for upcoming sets, the Jericho, Steamboat, and Lesnar sets would be must-buys for me, and I'd pick up Punk and Morrison because I'm a fan even though I think discussing DVDs for these guys is extremely premature at this early stage of their careers. I've always hated Sting, and I never really saw a Goldberg or Orton match I walked away from wanting to watch again.

Most of the compliation sets sounded good though. Wargames and Raw:1993 I would be excited for, but I'd pick up the Clash, Chamber, and IYH DVDs.





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zombiecraig
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 02:39 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
Gee...how about a Survivor Series boxed set?
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 02:50 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MayhemNX
United States Championship No Disqualification Match
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko
Uncensored March 16, 1997

WCW Cruiserweight Championship Title vs. Mask Match
Chris Jericho vs. Juventud Guerrera
SuperBrawl VIII February 22, 1998



Wow... the Guerrero/Malenko match is something totally different than what they usually do and they knocked it out of the park, screwy finish and all. Probably one of the most underrated matches ever.

And the feud with Juvy REALLY got the ball rolling on making Jericho into the huge megastar he became.

And holy shit... a Magnum sighting in 2009!!!

[Edited on 8-21-2009 by TarheelMike]





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posted on 8-21-2009 at 03:17 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
The fun thing to do would be to watch these DVD's and then read the Death Of WCW book they're selling over on WrestleCrap. It'd be interesting to compare the two just to see what WWE ignores, whitewashed, or makes out to be worse than it actually was.





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theflammablemanimal
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 03:52 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
As far as Superstar DVD's go, it seems like there's 2 ways to go:

1) Wait until their career is over and then pick the absolute best matches of their career for a massive, blowout 3 DVD set with just the absolute best matches of their career.

2) Do it the way ROH seems to do. They have best of AJ/Joe/Punk, volumes 1,2,3 (maybe more). So you figure, these guys probably have 10 great matches every couple of years, put out a cheap DVD, and then do it again. Everyone gets their money's worth and no repetition.

Or you can do both and it's up to the fans if they'd rather have all the volumes, just the career retro, or both.

And Lucky, I agree that it sucks to have to pay for a DVD with stuff that might be repeated from an earlier one. But like Jheaton said, WWE is pretty good about avoiding repetition. Also, if they weren't, that's something that's done by the DVD industry in general which is always releasing Director's Cut, Anniversary Edition, Special Edition of every movie so you'd have to buy 3 or 4 copies of the same movie just to get all the additional footage. I'm not saying it's right (in fact, it sucks), but why throw WWE in particular under the bus for the ills of the industry?

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Chris Is Good517
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posted on 8-21-2009 at 04:06 AM Edit Post Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zombiecraig
Gee...how about a Survivor Series boxed set?


Coming in November, I believe.





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