DevilSoprano
The Great One  
Posts 3342
Registered 11-16-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 05:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by metallikid
My point exactly.
And this post along with Grover's is my point exactly. I'm tired of getting patted on the head by the Yankees and their fans and being
told that we just don't matter to them in the grand scheme. I've never said Boston shouldn't be enemy #1, but the Mets should be #2.
It's the nature of the sport and city, but Yankees fans can't even give us that courtesy. They have to placate us by even mentioning our
existence.
I hope JOBA blows out his arm.
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Sweet Lou
Fella 
Posts 443
Registered 8-25-2006 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 06:06 PM |
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I'll hate the Mets if you want.
HAHA Mets! Chokin' ass mother fuckers!
Better?
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metallikid
The Immortal One 
Posts 4899
Registered 12-17-2002 Location Orlando, Florida Member Is Offline Mood: Super
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 06:06 PM |
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You matter as much as any other NL team. Why should I get worked up over what you do during the season? We aren't competing. We compete in
the offseason sometimes. You guys landed Beltran when many thought the Yankees would. I can see a little rivalry there. But we should't have
to hate each other. I don't see this dynamic in Jets/Giants fans. Giants fans hate Philly, Washington, and Dallas and Jets fans hate NE,
Miami, and Buffalo. I never hear shit from Jets fans if I'm wearing a Giants jersey.
It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
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chretienbabacool
The Great One 
Posts 3141
Registered 3-5-2003 Location Columbia, MO Member Is Offline Mood: Go Cubs!
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 06:13 PM |
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Bah, just go the Cubs/White Sox route and hate each other. It's more fun that way!
Go Cubs!
And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at
their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of
"the dysfunction in the black community"?
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mooseheadjack
Posts 8779
Registered 5-13-2002 Location Looking in your window Member Is Offline Mood: Bearataur
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 06:15 PM |
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wait, am I still supposed to hate the A's?
DAMN YOU PHILADEL....errr KANSAS CI......errrr OAKLAND ATHLETICS!!!
- The History of the OOWF: Archives at: www.oowfwrestling.com
- And Moose, seriously, shut the fuck up. - DSop
- Fuck you Moose. The worst part about it is that you are right. I fucking hate when you're right. - Metallikid
- 2008 World Series Champions Philadelphia Phillies
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metallikid
The Immortal One
Posts 4899
Registered 12-17-2002 Location Orlando, Florida Member Is Offline Mood: Super
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 06:16 PM |
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It's Great to be a Florida Gator!
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chretienbabacool
The Great One
Posts 3141
Registered 3-5-2003 Location Columbia, MO Member Is Offline Mood: Go Cubs!
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 06:22 PM |
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That video is why I want Barrett back:-( Hitting AJ is about the best thing anyone could do ever, and I imagine every single player on every single
other team but the Sox were cheering Barrett on (and probably some guys ON the Sox).
Go Cubs!
And just imagine if, instead of the Palins, the Obama family had a pregnant, underage daughter on display at
their convention, flanked by her black boyfriend who "intends" to marry her. Who among conservatives would have resisted the temptation to speak of
"the dysfunction in the black community"?
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outback jack
The Great One 
Posts 3684
Registered 3-10-2003 Location not Australia Member Is Offline Mood: old
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 07:16 PM |
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I remember at the beginning of the season some baseball analyst touting Omar Minaya's strategy of building up a really deep bullpen. The gist of
it was that stud starters are rare and really expensive, so stock up on good middle innings guys to bridge the gap to the set-up men and closer.
Problem is, most RP's beneath the closer or top set-up man levels are inconsistent at best. It's the flaw in the closer by committee
concept and, I think, the flaw in the deep bullpen compensates for a lack of inning-eating starters. There's a reason why so many of these
veteran journeyman relievers bounce from team to team - there aren't enough really good RP's to fill out the staffs, so retreads keep
getting more chances.
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW 
Posts 12565
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Grieving
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 07:52 PM |
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Omar has to take shit for his roster construction. I think you can put the offensive struggles on Reyes, Beltran, and Delgado. I think you can put
the general malaise on Willie. The pitching goes on Omar. Say what you want about Glavine but he never should have been in the position to be the
Mets' ace. I think most people expected that rotation to eventually hurt the Mets and it did. And 6 months ago I didn't get the bullpen
hype.
Personally I think it would be silly to fire Willie or Omar. 2 months of shittiness or even 1 year shouldn't over power 3. Give them another
year, let them save their jobs. If they fail again you can cut bait at the same time you do with Delgado, Wagner, Pedro, and Glavine (presuming he
exercises his player option in '08). But Omar needs to realize it was HIS staff that lost and fix that. And if he tries to make Willie the
scapegoat the media will never let the Mets' hear the end of it.
quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
And this post along with Grover's is my point exactly. I'm tired of getting patted on the head by the Yankees and their fans and being
told that we just don't matter to them in the grand scheme. I've never said Boston shouldn't be enemy #1, but the Mets should be #2.
It's the nature of the sport and city, but Yankees fans can't even give us that courtesy. They have to placate us by even mentioning our
existence.
I hope JOBA blows out his arm.
I hate to be a dick, Dev, but your post could kind of be Exhibit A in Grover's "little brother syndrome" case.
And Orioles fans should naturally hate Nationals fans. And D-Rays and Marlins should despise each other. Yankee fans have had a lot more contact and
struggle with the Angels of late than the Mets. They hate them more. In my lifetime the Yanks have had a lot more contact and struggle with the
Indians, Mariners, and Orioles. So we can't just HATE the Mets because they live near us.
Yanks fans who do hate the Mets hate their fans. Sometimes for irrational reason but often because they were insufferable or because they go crazy at
ANY chance to draw parallels between the clubs or raise the Mets above the Yanks. But if you want a RIVALRY? With an NL team? Mets are going to
have to be consistently strong, become an equal in the city, and take the Yanks down once or twice. Remember this is the same fanbase that was joking
a few years back that NY/Boston wasn't a rivalry because the Yanks were just winning too much.
Personally I'm pissed the Mets lost because I wanted a crazy playoff picture. Need a Padres loss and Mets, Phils, and Rockies wins to score a 3
way tie in the WC with a tie in the East. But NOOOOOO. Mets can't do that. So now all we get is Colorado/Padres. Bastards. No use to me,
Mets.
[Edited on 10-1-2007 by LuckyLopez]
He smiled.
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fsolomon75
American Dream 
Posts 8482
Registered 1-25-2002 Location SoCal Member Is Offline Mood: WILLIE~!
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 08:16 PM |
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Fine... if Omar is going to keep Willie, then let him run the team. Let him pick the coaches. Let him decide who starts when and where... because
from what I've heard Omar made all of those decisions. There's no way Willie was on board bringing Rickey in, no way. Let Omar get the
players, let Willie run the players. It shouldn't be that hard. That being said, SOMEONE has to get through to Reyes and wake him up. Willie
obviously can't since he benched him in the summer for not hustling and what happened on Saturday? Reyes was loafing AGAIN, Milledge the same
thing a day later in Game 162. They either take on the traits of the lifeless manager or the manager can't get through to the players. Either
way changes need to be made and while they're not going to fire Willie or trade Reyes, I could easily see Milledge moved to another team for
some pitching help.
Now I really hope I don't jinx anything but I'd like to congratulate the Cubs on winning the pennant.
Teh wisdom of MooseheadJack: "tpyos are not going to ruin my day today" and "the only thing carved in stone for the Mets is the look on
willie's face"
The 2007 Post Of The Year
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DevilSoprano
The Great One
Posts 3342
Registered 11-16-2002 Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 09:12 PM |
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Lucky, I mentioned that I feel like a red-headed step child when it comes to the Yankees. And someone mentioned it...if the White Sox and Cubs fans
can hate each other, why can't the Mets and Yankees? And the Nationals have been in Washington for 3 years, give em time to build a rivalry with
the Orioles. And no one cares about baseball at all in Florida, so that's a moot point.
I'm not saying the Mets need to be public enemy #1 to the Yankees and their fans, I'm even willing to take a lower # if you really feel
like the Angels have built up a large rivalry with the Yankees. But it's the fact that the Mets and their fans are treated like little gnats
when it comes to the Yankees that push us to boast louder and with more obnoxiousness just to get noticed and for people to even realize we're
there.
I'm not saying it's right on Mets fans part, but that's where the bitterness at least in some part comes from. It's partly a
bitterness that the Yankees are always so good and even with the Mets spending money on a somewhat comparable level that we can't guarantee
ourselves the playoffs like the Yankees can. It's partly a bitterness that we feel we're always on the cusp and just can't get over
it while we see the Yankees get over that hump. And then, at least for me, it's a bitterness where I just feel like I'm being treated as a
second-class citizen...and I know for a fact that the Yankees haven't always owned New York...The 80's are a great reminder that Yankees
fans can hate the Mets, but now that the Yankees are good they feel above the Mets and that gets to me.
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ThePunisher
The Rowdy One 
Posts 2941
Registered 4-19-2003 Location Asheville, NC Member Is Offline Mood:
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 09:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fsolomon75
Now I really hope I don't jinx anything but I'd like to congratulate the Cubs on winning the pennant.
fucker!
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LuckyLopez
Reeks of WCW
Posts 12565
Registered 2-13-2003 Member Is Offline Mood: Grieving
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| posted on 10-1-2007 at 09:53 PM |
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Dev, I don't know how I can say this without being a dick... the Mets just don't matter to the Yanks. I'm sorry. And maybe that
was different in '86. But its 2007 and the Yanks have had a lock for more than a decade. So you can't just expect Yankee fans to hate
the Mets and view them as a rival just because. There has to be history there. And there isn't. Build history, build a rivalry. I
don't know how or why Chicago does it. Quite frankly I think that rivalry seems quite psychotic and fucked up. I mean, if CBBC can come off as
irrational and crazy to me something weird is in the water. Or maybe all White Sox fans REALLY are degenerate pieces of shit who are lower forms of
life. In which case I guess I get it. But does it make you feel better than I have friends who believe that ALL Mets fans are inherently stupider
and scummier than ALL Yankee fans? He hates you if it helps.
And don't be fooled, Dev. I spent all weekend running around parties in NY and sitting in a stadium filled with Yankee fans. The Yank fans
were PLENTY glad the Mets choked and lost. But the reality is that the Yankee fanbase KNOWS that there is no better way to push your guys'
buttons than to be condescending. Because that drives you guys insane. So as long as you keep screaming "FUCK THE YANKEES" and want more respect
the Yank fans will continue to intentionally withhold to piss you off.
And there's other stuff like the "Reyes is better than Jeter and Wright is better than A-Rod" stuff that has been spinning. And then you have
a season like this where Yankee fans can just sit back and say "Ha, yeah, that was a worthwhile claim."
Of course winning a World Series or two, developing a comparable organization, winning a few BIG and memorable series/games, all couldn't hurt.
Solly, oh something definitely has to change between Wilie and Omar. I said that if they fire Willie as the scapegoat it will go over bad. But if
they fire him on the grounds that he's not on Omar's page? I think that's different. Like I said earlier, Omar clearly is more of
the Billy Beane/Theo Epstein type of GM who'd like to pull a lot of the strings and dictate parts of the team. If Willie and he can't
work together on that then what's the point? Willie needs to become a better soldier or Omar needs to treat him as more of an equal. One way
or another, they need to figure shit out.
I know you're pissed as all hell and who can blame you? I just think that firings and trades done as a reaction to this are mistakes. Maybe
moving Milledge is a good idea. Maybe firing Willie is a good idea. Maybe shopping Reyes is a good idea. But everyone involved with the Mets needs
a 2 week vacation where they chill out and get their head's straight (jokes about how they were already too relaxed can be inserted here). Then
approach this whole thing from a calmer place. Don't force the fanbase and media to make you make changes NOW. Or now as in immediately when
you can.
I mean, if Omar can move Reyes for Johan? That might be awesome. But if he moves Milledge for D-Train in a panic move? That could turn ugly. And
even Johan could if he leaves in a year. Wilpon just needs to be smart about whether Omar's still here and then Omar needs to be smart about
whether Willie's then here. And then if both are still there all 3 need to get together on the same page and figure out where this team
goes.
If I had to put together a quick plan it would probably be something along the lines of:
1) Redo the management: Make sure Willie and Omar know they're on probation and they need to get on the same page. Let BOTH of them work out a
coaching staff and a plan they can work with.
2) Redo the Staff: Buy Glavine's player option out after convincing him he can't return. Hit the phones and figure out who's
available as a SP. See what they cost, figure it into your plans. See what Freddy Garcia wants for a reclamation project. Take a good hard look at
the new crop of Japanese pitchers. Figure out if Pelfrey and Humber are going to be in your plans and if not, move them NOW.
3) Find a setup man who can close when Wagner leaves or falls out of grace. Go after Linebrink. Cordero. If Nathan becomes available move the moon
to get him and promise him the co-closer gig until Wagner leaves.
4) Say goodbye to LoDuca and Green. Milledge gets an everyday job and if not go sign Abreu or Dunn and move Milledge. Go hard after Posada but
figure out where else you go for C when/if he re-signs. Fill out the rest.
He smiled.
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