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Author: Subject: Philosophical question
Operation Retard
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:06 PM Edit Post
everyone knows the hidden meaning behind brad smoley's avatar.

jeff jarrett represents brad smoley, and the tequiza represents king of hart's friend's cock.






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Operation Retard
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:06 PM Edit Post
WOO!!!! DOUBLE POST!!!!

[Edited on 4-25-2006 by Operation Retard]






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angstboy
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:09 PM Edit Post
Only HOBO GAY FAGS double post. Yeah, I called you homeless. Oh, here's a philosophical question for you now, Tard... "If your boyfriend said he wasn't gay, would you still have sex with his butt, even if that meant that you'd be bi now?"






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borntorun
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:15 PM Edit Post
My post count is one higher.

Well, actually it's three higher. Let me go ahead and fix that myself...





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Operation Retard
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:16 PM Edit Post
well i have to asnwer your philosophical question with a philosophical question:

if a tree falls in the woods and no one's there to hear it, would you still dress in leather chaps and bend over?






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angstboy
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:20 PM Edit Post
I'll answer that with a question of my own: does the Pope shit in your mouth?






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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:24 PM Edit Post


Well done





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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:34 PM Edit Post
The giving of grades hurts self esteem. Transcripts should have comments like "tried really hard" and "is a good worker" instead of this elitist A, B, C stuff!






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Operation Retard
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:36 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by angstboy
I'll answer that with a question of my own: does the Pope shit in your mouth?


i'll answer that with an answer...


YES!!






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GoVols
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:40 PM Edit Post
So what's the decision here, can I change my transcipt to read GPA: 4.0 or what. I need all your approvals before I make the change, errr, my buddy needs your approval to make the change. I feel like George O'Leary as I contemplate whether to mark over the 2.9 with White-Out.






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King of Harts
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:43 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by Operation Retard
it's just like Y2G said and i reiterated. whether it's a bad professor or a typo. you show the transcript as is, stated it's an error in the process of being fixed and you'd be happy to show the correct transcript when the process is done. period. this conversation is over. anything else would be wrong.


Agreed - that is the ideal way to show it - full disclosure. Ultimately, it is just a more conservative way to display the "truth", however. Rather than outright change the grade, you're just telling them that the grade is wrong. It's still based on the premise that the employer should know the "true" grade. Marking the transcript up and saying "this grade is wrong" is just a less aggressive approach (but the way I would do it myself).

Edit - I had written something derogatory about Smoley and his use of "F++" but removed it, since I was being unreasonable. He likely saw it before I did removed it and thus the F++ below.

[Edited on 4-25-2006 by King of Harts]

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posted on 4-25-2006 at 06:52 PM Edit Post
F++!!!

[Edited on 4-25-2006 by angstboy]






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Operation Retard
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:09 PM Edit Post
smoley gets an F++ on his use of BB code.






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mooseheadjack







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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:14 PM Edit Post
But then again, usually an employer wants an official transcript from the school, whcih means it should come from the school directly to the employer. Once you mark it up, it is not official.

And changing the grade from what it is to what you think it is going to be before the school does it, is just dishonest. Just tell your employer that there was an error and you will have the official correction sent.

Until the grade is changed by the school, the grade is a D, saying anything else until then, is a lie.





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King of Harts
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:14 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by mooseheadjack
Until the grade is changed by the school, the grade is a D, saying anything else until then, is a lie.

So what would you, as an applicant, do? With the understanding that leaving the transcript as is could unfairly disqualify you from the job, you would just leave it as is, and call them later? Or would you at least make some sort of marking on the transcript to say "no, this is wrong"? In the former case, you could be kicked out of the process without having a chance to explain yourself (unfairly).

And speaking of D's and A's and the philosophy idea... Smoley may have come up with something. Is F++ better or worse than regular F? It's like in cup sizes - double D is the biggest, but why is double A the smallest? Shouldn't double A be bigger than single A?

[Edited on 4-25-2006 by King of Harts]

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SpaceMountainFatBoy
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:18 PM Edit Post
Look, the only way your friend can do something about this without looking like a tool to the guy interviewing him is to contact the school and see what can be done about the situation. Marking out the grade with a little note looks childish and negates the legitimacy of the transcript. Explaining the situation to the interviewer sounds like you're making an excuse for poor work, which is not a good idea. If your friend doesn't have the time to procure a corrected transcript in time for the interview, he needs to either present the one he has, explain that there was an error, and provide contact information for someone at the university who can confirm that there was an error; or he needs to call the interviewer, explain that there was an error with the transcript, and inquire as to whether or not he can continue with the interview and submit a valid transcript as soon as it is available. No matter what, the sickness excuse will sound weak and changing the grade yourself would be totally unethical.

To summarize: Your fucking slacker friend needs to get off his ass and get that fixed at the university level, or accept that unless he had Parvo or fucking Face AIDS, there's no excuse for missing a final.

quote:
Originally posted by maclen
Have your friend change the grade to a "C+" and let's call it even.


Man, everyone knows that it's way easier to change a "D" to a "B"...





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punkerhardcore
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:24 PM Edit Post
I signed up for a class last quarter, then ditched every session and never took a test..... and the professor dared to give me an F. What an asshole, because I totally deserved an A+.





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Of course they are, and you are too... otherwise, you wouldn't have come here.

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SpaceMountainFatBoy
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:26 PM Edit Post
Totally.





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borntorun
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:28 PM Edit Post
But what is truth? Dd your friend really take the class? Did he really even go to college? Have any of us really gone to college? DO ANY OF US REALLY EXIST?????

He should just change his transcript to binary code and tell his employer to look inside himself for the true meaning of Christmas.





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posted on 4-25-2006 at 07:30 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by King of Harts
So what would you, as an applicant, do? With the understanding that leaving the transcript as is could unfairly disqualify you from the job, you would just leave it as is, and call them later? Or would you at least make some sort of marking on the transcript to say "no, this is wrong"? In the former case, you could be kicked out of the process without having a chance to explain yourself (unfairly).


If this person was a real potential applicant, someone I was seriously considering hiring, I would follow up his claims on my own and get in touch with the school. Has the process been started to change the grade? Does anyone outside of the student and Professor have knowledge of the situation?

If they say yes, then I take the applicant's word for it, and would most likely hire them. If the school has no knowledge of any sort of a pending grade change, then that would lead me to believe that either 1. the applicant is completely making it up, or 2. while he may not be making it up, he has nothing to prove his story other than "the professor said he would change it." I would have to seriously question the applicant.

It is 100% on the person to have the grade changed officially before he tries to pass it off to the employer as something its not.





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posted on 4-25-2006 at 08:44 PM Edit Post
I've worked at 3 universities, and I can tell you that the answer is the same for all of them.

A university transcript is an official, legal document. Most have one or more of the following: a raised seal, a water mark, a signature, and/or a time and date stamp.

Altering this document on your own, after said seal/mark/signature/stamp has been afixed is considered falsification of a document, which in most jobs is immeidate grounds for termination.

Your friend's official university record shows that he got a D+ (or whatever he got). He needs to clear it up with the university. A verbal agreement means nothing to most people, except Judge Judy. Get the document fixed, and all will be well with the world. But don't fix it with a #2 Pencil.

As a hiring manager, I'd look to hire someone who identifies a problem, and follows the correct channels when fixing it. Not someone who takes shortcuts or the easy way out. I'm not saying your friend always takes shortcuts, but changing your grade on a transcript gives a potential employer a very negative perception of you.






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King of Harts
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 10:07 PM Edit Post
G-B, employers typically ask for unofficial transcripts. They don't ask for the sealed one directly from the school. Grad schools, however, do require them and make you go to the effort of getting official transcripts. Is that meaningful in some way? Perhaps.

As for SMFB's point about "the sickness excuse will sound weak" and "there's no excuse for missing a final", that's not relevant. We're not judging whether a) the professor SHOULD cut the final (actually a midterm) or b) whether he had any excuse to miss it. These are parameters on which the debate rests. That's why I brought up an alternative scenario about a typo instead of a sickness excuse.

All said, I think we all agree that the "right" way to approach the situation is to avoid forging anything, and just attempt to explain the situation as much as possible.

With regards to Jeb's points, hey, there's no question he fucked up. Whether you believe it or not, he claims he had to apply for jobs within days of getting his (incorrect) results, and his professor "didn't return his multiple calls before he had to submit his grades". I know, sounds stupid. Whatever, I don't need to spin his story nor do I care - one of my responses to him was that if you can't fix it through the school, you have to live with the consequences to some degree. But given everything that's happened before his application, it shouldn't change whether or not he has the right and/or Moral obligation (with a capital M) to disclose the True result.

Regardless of how farfetched the scenario I'm generating may sound, for this debate to have any legs (a case in many philosophical discussions), Truth with a capital T must be assumed. In which case, he has in fact an obligation to disclose the fuckup - everyone (employer and employee) is worse off without it. Seemingly, the only debate is on the approach - obviously, there's a wide range of things he can do, from changing the grade outright, to marking down "error" on the transcript with a brief explanation, to not touching the transcript and only following it up with a phone call.

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SpaceMountainFatBoy
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 10:40 PM Edit Post
I'm not debating whether the sickness excuse is the Truth (I'm assuming it is). I'm merely pointing out that your friend isn't getting the job if he tries telling an employer that he has any excuse for getting that grade. Any. Sickness, typo, dog ate his homework, whatever. Excuses are for kids, not productive adults. (I know that's not absolutely true, but it is to someone going into an interview determined to hire the best candidate for any given job.)

Your slacker friend's only recourse in this situation is to fake the grade, which is completely unethical. That was the original question, right?

Also: I've never seen a request for a transcript that could be unofficial. That just seems ludicrous. Has anyone else heard of this?





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King of Harts
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 11:19 PM Edit Post
That doesn't make sense. So you acknowledge that he didn't do anything wrong (ie you accept the Indisputable Truth that a) the professor fucked up, and b) he was physically unable to make the change before any application). Yet you pretty much suggest he's devoid of any reasonable options.

On the one hand, he looks like a moron and won't get the job if he tries to mark down the mistake, or even verbally explain his plight (which is completely unfair, as you've acknowledged, in the Truthful World, that he's done nothing wrong.) On the other, you condemn his only other option, which is just changing the grade to the Right Grade, as unethical. So what's the right answer in your mind?

Separately, to answer your other question, an unofficial transcript is just a photocopied official one, at least that's how it works in Canada. Due to the significant costs associated with getting a fresh official transcript for each application, the companies up here don't insist on an official one. Previously, they allowed people (and most will still be ok with it) a "printout" of a transcript from your school's web server. Obviously it's on these types of "transcripts" where manipulation is most likely.

[Edited on 4-25-2006 by King of Harts]

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Operation Retard
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posted on 4-25-2006 at 11:20 PM Edit Post
why does this thread continue? EVERYONE has given the same answer to KoH's question, yet somehow KoH keeps trying to rephrase the question so everyone has to answer again, still all saying the same thing.

-it's slacker friend's fault.
-it's slacker friend's responsibility.
-no, slacker friend should not forge anything if he has to take an interview before it's fixed.
-if slacker friend has to take an interview before it's fixed, he's just gotta man up and deal with it.
-slacker friend sucks, and i now think less of KoH knowing that he associates with him.

did i miss anything? no? good. now please. can we end this?






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