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Author: Subject: TNA's Dying days?
MichiyoYoshiku
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:11 AM Edit Post
TNA's Dying days?

TNA is falling on some tough times.

1. No TV
2. No real Standout stars beyond AJ, Michael Shane and The Fallen Angel
3. Small fanbase
4. losing money at a feverish pace.

I prediect come September, There won't BE A TNA.

Comments?

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Katie Vick killer
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:15 AM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by MichiyoYoshiku
2. No real Standout stars beyond AJ, Michael Shane and The Fallen Angel



Chris Sabin, Petey Williams, AMW, Elix Skipper, Raven. to name a few.

[Edited on 10/6/2005 by Katie Vick killer]






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LuckyLopez
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:19 AM Edit Post
Micheal Shane's a standout star?

Damn I've been missing alot.

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The Bad Guy
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:53 AM Edit Post
I never expected TNA to make it three months, let alone three years, so while things look pretty grim, I'm not quite ready to count them out yet.






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Stormtrooper
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 05:11 AM Edit Post
POOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUNCE





THE CHAMP

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 10:03 AM Edit Post
Meh. I'm bored and can't sleep.
quote:
1. No TV

True. To be fair a LOT of companies exist without TV. The true problem is No TV + No Touring = No Promotion. Then again, who the hell knows what their TV status is? Noone, apparently. Apparently them popping up on a national TV station in 2 weeks isn't that far fetched. So who knows?

Personally I think TNA are complete morons for not just adopting the ECW format of programming. Find a few spots within driving distance of each other that you can build a fanbase in. Hit them up over the course of a weekend, take 1-2 months off filling your shows with the footage and hype up another big event. Pull your guys together somewhere in the middle to record some new stuff and keep things fresh. If you're not going live and you're not touring regularly what's the point of hosting all your shows in one spot that you can't really build much of a fanbase in? Are the lasers THAT important to you? Is the 6 sided ring THAT hard to put together? But that's just me.

quote:
2. No real Standout stars beyond AJ, Michael Shane and The Fallen Angel

I honestly have no damn clue what your qualifiers are for "standout star." How the hell does Shane make that list if Killings, Sabin, Monty Brown, or AMW don't? I'm not saying I think they're all "standout stars" because again, I have no idea what you mean by that. I wouldn't call them all names that the average wrestling fan knows and gets excited about. I would call them all wrestlers with genuine appeal and some hype that are stars within their own world that could translate it further.

And I presume you meant "homegrown" guys because TNA's got at least a few known guys who people that the average fan gets a kick out of. If nothing else I'm continuilly amazed by how much the fans seem to love Konnan.

quote:
3. Small fanbase

Again, kind of a relative term, no? A lot of promotions are running with a much smaller fanbase. And the fanbase certainly hasn't lessed much in the last year or so (nevertheless the last month). See point 1.

quote:
4. losing money at a feverish pace.

Well that really is mostly speculation. But speculation I'll believe. Of course speculation also seems to be that they're being financed by a corporation using them as a tax writeoff and being rather ok with them losing money, so what's the point? Don't get me wrong, obviouslly noone is happy losing money but it doesn't seem like the worst problem at the moment (as opposed to saw an ECW situation of losing money hand over foot).

quote:
I prediect come September, There won't BE A TNA.

Well thank you for your prediection. Might we ask the details of it? How did it come to pass? The TV situation is the only one of these points that has developed in the last month or so. The rest of them really haven't changed in years. Is TV the sole reason why the company will die in a matter of months? Shouldn't we at least wait to see how their first non-TV supported monthly PPV does in comparison to the norm before we deem there a great change? Some have speculated that this wouldn't much affect the company either way. No idea if they're right. Doesn't it make all logical sense to wait out for at least the first try to see the results? And if it fails shouldn't we perhaps see if TNA is able to aquire TV time or adapts its format to fit with their new situation (since they have changed their format a few times since existing)? Or at least wonder if these things might occur?

But thank you for your indepth and thought proviking post and questions. I for one appreciate you bringing these new and otherwise unexplored issues to the surface for us to explore. Your presentation of them put the general issue in a light that allowed me to ponder it from a perspective I truly never have before. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

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GeeW
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 12:56 PM Edit Post
IMO Universal Studios cannot sustain the promotion. Tourists rather than wrestling fans show up for the free show. This was a mistake to go there. They need to go back to Nashville. They need to work on a TV deal. They need to get rid of the big $ wrestlers who have outlived their usefullness - Kevin Nash. But, in the end I too believe they fail. Panda Energy can't keep absorbing the kind of losses they do. Now if the group Jim Duggan is with buys out Panda then the end is nearer.
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MichiyoYoshiku
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 01:07 PM Edit Post
I admit I'm not the best debater but I'll try my best to explain my point of view.

first off I ment Homegrown TNA Guys.

I don't think AMW are as great as they are made out to be. Anybody can have a good spotfest cage match.

I also think alot of these "TNA" guys do their best work outside of TNA.

Compare AJ Styles VS Christopher Daniels in
ROH to TNA's AJ VS Daneils. Their ROH Matches were soooooooo much better.

As the poster above said How do we know the people at Impact and PPV are wrestling Fans? They sure are a pretty boring crowd.

If TNA wants to compete with WWE something needs to change. Going back to Nashville would help.

Think about this TNA has higher production values than most if not all indies. they had to pay for their spot on FSN. They weren't getting good sponsors. Their PPVS probably don't pull in huge buyrates. They have a pretty big roster. The people in the impact zone go in for free so nobody is paid based off Gate. Plus you have other expenses like merchendise manufacturing too.

I have a few TNA DVDs and the atmosphere at the Asylum was alot better than in the Impact Zone. They were making money off Gate and weekly PPV..

The Match Quality isn't there either. Jeff Jarrett as much as people would hate to say it really is their top teir guy. Then they have washed up stars going in and out who demand a lot of money per apperence.

From a pure booking stand point name a Hell besides Jarrett to put the world title on.

Abyss- maybe
Christopher Daniels- Definatly but he's an "X divison star"
Monty Brown-I don't like him AT ALL.

TNA is doing a better job pissing on the NWA title legacy than Shane Douglas did when he threw down the Belt to help usher in ECW.

Now about money. You have all these expenses. and probably maybe 3 million a month in revenue from PPV and merchandise (including dvds) how are you going to pay the wrestlers and staff on that?

It's not the ECW Question of where did the money go. It's TNA's own question of Where is the money coming from?

Basically with out a TV deal or real fanbase TNA either needs to head back to Nashville or take it on the road.

But can they afford to?

They've made it clear they want to compete with WWE. But they're getting WWE's Sloppy seconds and with the mistakes they're making.......they're just a 2nd rate indy with high Production Values.

That said, BUY AJ'S DVD SET it's awesome.
Track down the bloody brawls DVD too.

TNA has had some good shit but lately they've just been shit.

[Edited on 6-10-2005 by MichiyoYoshiku]

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angstboy
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 02:04 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by GeeW
IMO Universal Studios cannot sustain the promotion. Tourists rather than wrestling fans show up for the free show. This was a mistake to go there. They need to go back to Nashville.


Sigh. Okay, here we go. The deal that TNA/Panda Energy has with Universal Studios is a good one. They get a regular venue that they currently don't have to worry about filling because they are constantly having to turn away people for the shows. They aren't making money off of these people, but I don't believe that that is their current concern. The deal with Universal allows them to expose a number of people (many of which probably aren't from around Florida at all) to the TNA brand. Eventually, yes, TNA should try a light touring schedule, but the promotion is ONLY 3 years old. I think people keep forgetting how far this fed had come in the last three years, but on the same hand, forget that TNA cannot be expected to run things as efficiently as a company that's been doing the wrestling thing for well over 20 years, i.e. WWE. Universal Studios isn't a place to "sustain" TNA, it's a place to jump off from.

quote:
They need to work on a TV deal.


They are. They haven't announced it yet. Look for something this weekend or at Slammiversary. TNA isn't retarded, and more specifically, Panda Energy isn't retarded. Let me make something clear here, Panda Energy just didn't throw TNA a bunch of money and then sit back and let the Jarretts and Rhodes do whatever the hell they want with it. Panda Energy is in direct control of TNA's financial dealings and I'm positive that they have a specific business plan in place for TNA. I'm sure that a national TV deal is part of that plan. I'm also pretty sure, based on how they've run things so far, that losing a lot of money for the first few years of Panda's interest in TNA was part of the plan as well. Chill out. TNA will be back on TV with in a month. It may be back on FSN, but it's better than having nothing.

quote:
They need to get rid of the big $ wrestlers who have outlived their usefullness - Kevin Nash.


They pretty much already have. Nash, Hall, Savage, DDP... they're all gone right now. Way to keep up on current events. They may pop up from time to time in the future, but there's been some changes in the booking staff that would seem to be WAY more open to building up TNA's young stars while keeping mid card veterans like Billy Gunn and Ron Killings around to glue things together. This isn't WCW lite. They're overcoming a lot of the problems WCW had a lot faster and more efficiently than WCW ever did.

quote:
But, in the end I too believe they fail. Panda Energy can't keep absorbing the kind of losses they do.


Well, they aren't gonna end things if they are successful, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with your first sentence. By the way, I'd LOVE to see the financial reports you managed to get your hands on regarding what Panda energy was or was not willing to, or has or has not alread, lost due to their investment in TNA. Panda Energy, along with many other facets of their company, is in the acquisition business. I'm sure they know a whole hell of a lot more about what they need to do to make a glorified indie promotion like TNA a successful business venture than a bunch of intraweb geeks do. They also probably realize that it isn't going to happen over night.

Right now, I think a lot of those internet geeks are looking at TNA and hoping that a new Monday Night War will be sparked. They see the possibilities of legit competition and they get a little excited. But then they look at TNA and think, wow, the production levels are crappy compared to WWE, and they don't tour like WWE, and they don't have the star power or sweet TV deal like WWE... they're gonna get CRUSHED! Fortunately for TNA, I don't think the suits at Panda give two shits about a Monday Night War, at least at the moment. All they care about at this point is slowly and carefully building up their business to a profitable level. If they were making omelets, they'd be in the egg-breaking stage.

quote:
Now if the group Jim Duggan is with buys out Panda then the end is nearer.


Again, way to keep up on current events. Dave Nelson, the owner/booker/wrestler from NWAOhio has already dropped his $10 million "offer" to buy TNA form Panda. TNA didn't even blink at the offer. If Panda was losing money in buckets, why WOULDN'T they have just said, "you know what, we're millions of dollars in the hole and stand to lose more and more money in the next few years. We should take the $10 mil and wash our hands of this debacle." Why wouldn't they? Because they have a plan for TNA.

All this "TNA is dead" stuff is retarded, and people are comparing TNA to WWE waaaay too much. TNA isn't, and probably won't be for a number of years, anywhere near WWE's level, in many aspects. What would you have TNA do? Seriously. If they leave tv and adopt a touring schedule, like a normal indie promotion, they're dead, right? If they get a tv deal and go up against WWE, they're dead, right? If they settle back into their FSN deal and don't move forward, they're dead, right?

The very fact that there is discussion about this means that TNA's been at least a moderate success. Their name is out there. People are aware that they are gone, but people also need to be aware that they won't be gone forever. TNA is fine, they're just going trough the growing pains of running a wrestling company in a WWE dominant industry.






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MichiyoYoshiku
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 02:39 PM Edit Post
Seeing as how alot of talent is underused or just outright wasted, Can you really blame anybody for wanting TNA Gone for good?

I haven't really seen too many people given a chance to shine outside AJ Styles or The Fallen Angel.

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Trickstar
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 02:55 PM Edit Post
Yes anybody could be blamed for wanting TNA Gone for good. Pretty much every wrestler that has been put on TV or on a PPV has been given a chance to shine. Ask these wrestlers whether they'd prefer to to wrestle in front of no TV cameras and with they regret their PPV opportunities.

Not that you have the power to influence things but wishing for TNA to be gone would be a disservice to hard working wrestlers.

What good would TNA being gone accomplish?

Seriously man.





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angstboy
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 03:02 PM Edit Post
That depends. What do you mean by "chance to shine?" I know that by watching TNA, I am much more aware, and enjoy the talents of A.J., Daniels, Petey Williams, Elix Skipper, Chris Sabin, Michael Shane, Abyss, AMW, The Naturals, Sonjay Dutt, and up until recently, Frank Kazarian and the late Chris Candido. In TNA, all of these guys have had a "chance to shine" in and of the fact that I now know who they are at a glance, and to a degree, what they can do in the ring.

I'd consider myself an "educated-casual" wrestling fan. I'm not obsessed with wrestling by any degree, but if I want information about it, I know where to get it. It's a great hobby for me, and I've even written a column or two and drawn up some hideously awful cartoons for this very site. I can't rattle off NWA titleholders dating back to 1972, nor can I tell you a damn thing about any indie feds in my area. Compared to the lengths some people go to to get their wrestling fix (tape trading, following a promotion across the country, etc.), I like my wrestling easy and accessible. That's why I think TNA is doing an excellent job, they're easy to follow and they are accessible. When TNA got their FSN tv deal, it introduced me to a group of competitors that I never would have been exposed to otherwise. It also gave me some familiar faces to latch on to, even if I've been less than impressed with their contributions to the wrestling world in the last few years.

Michiyo, you're sounding like a jaded indie wrestling fan that is somehow upset that TNA is getting a lot of attention when your Favorite Promotion X is languishing in high school gymnasiums. It sounds like you WANT TNA to fail as opposed to actually believing that it will. If this is true, why is that? Why do you believe that because A.J. and Daniels have had some stellar, strong style ROH matches, that they are being "wasted" in TNA? How is TNA mis/underusing some of its other talent?






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MichiyoYoshiku
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:06 PM Edit Post
I'm am baseing my underused argument on awesome matches seen in Indies like PWG, MLW (when it existed) and Ring of Honor
and then those same workers in TNA and their matches only being 1/3 as good as indie matches.

Only a few TNA Matches have wowed me and all of them involved AJ Styles and that was from Early TNA when they had to do something crazy to stand out.

2002 TNA>2005 TNA

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LuckyLopez
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:18 PM Edit Post
Of course you would agree that TNA is working with certain time constraints that other indies aren't, no? There are MANY legitimate criticisms of TNA that I fully support and some that I would gladly lead the charge on. The "Alex Shelley/CM Punk gets to wrestle amazing 20 minute matches in ROH" thing has always struck me as 2nd only to "filled with WWE castoffs" in terms of stupidity. (And I realize they're no longer with TNA but they were the only ROH regulars I could come up with besides Styles/Daniels.) TNA simply doesn't have the luxury of allowing talents extended time to shine except within the main event. And quite frankly, once their TV time was cut in half with the move to FSN they lost even more ability to really showcase anyone that well. I've got a LOT of problems with TNA. When it comes PPV time I've largely felt like the talents come strong and shine pretty well (depending on card placement). But when ROH is holding 4-5 hour shows with half the midcarders getting 20 minutes its hard to compete with that in the wrestling department.
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angstboy
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 04:50 PM Edit Post
Good points Lucky. With that said, I'm very interested to see what TNA does when they get their 2 hours back on tv. It'll definitely help open up the amount of time they have to showcase some matches. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view) they'll most likely use the time to squeeze in as many of their wrestlers as possible. More workers = less time for matches.






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Toffile
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 05:03 PM Edit Post
I was checking out PWInsider earlier, and the latest news from WGN is that the deal is dead.

Here's a link to the article.

http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=10839&p=1






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MichiyoYoshiku
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 06:37 PM Edit Post
this is actually good, I don't get WGN and alot of people don't so now what?

Spike?
TBS?
G4?

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benoitbrokemyneck
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 08:14 PM Edit Post
haven't really seen too many people given a chance to shine outside AJ Styles or The Fallen Angel.

I've only seen TNA a handul of times, but when I have, it seemed as if everybody was being given a chance to shine. Petey Williams is incredible and gets to show it off, as does Elix Skipper, Chris Sabin, Monty Brown, and the list just goes on. I think TNA encourages their guys to not hold anything back, unlike the WWE's handling of their talent. People complain that Jericho and Benoit don't do enough in the ring nowadays... toss them into TNA and I guarantee you would never here such talk so long as they were there. I honestly have no idea how you can say nobody save two guys get to shine in TNA... that's flat out wrong.





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angstboy
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 08:32 PM Edit Post
I think we're really missing the BIG issue here. That issue of course, is "who in the TNA locker room is gay?" Well I want to know. I don't want to head back stage someday and get hit on by the last person I expect to get hit on. (unless it's a diva then I'm cool)

I mean, every time I head backstage, I always get hit on by at least 2 or 3 large sweaty men. I'm very hot and the gays just wanna get with me. Since I go backstage so much, I'm bound to get hit on. If someone like MichiyoYoshiku were to ever go backstage at TNA, he would just have to get used to it, because if he's as irresistible to the gays as I am, he'd be in for some trouble.

[Edited on 6-10-2005 by angstboy]






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ModSquad
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 09:01 PM Edit Post
I'd be most afraid of Monty Brown. He can't wait to poooounce.

Roar!





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MichiyoYoshiku
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 09:18 PM Edit Post
People in TNA do hold back. Not to the degree of WWE but they DO HOLD BACK ALOT.

My TNA to other indies is proof of that

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TarheelMike
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 09:41 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by MichiyoYoshiku
2002 TNA>2005 TNA


And...?

2000 WWF > 2005 WWE. I don't see everybody rallying around proclaiming, or wanting, for that matter, WWE to be dead. Have they been better? Yes. But is that alone grounds for pulling the plug? Hell no.

Personally, I think TNA was just now beginning to hit its stride, and that the TV deal falling out is just a small setback. I'm still of the opinion that when business gets tight, re-cater to your core fanbase. Go back to Nashville like Lucky said and get back to the business of putting out a quality product IN the ring. Everything else will follow if you do a good enough job.

And as far as the "holding back" argument, who gives a shit? You gotta leave something for the PPV. And then you gotta leave something for the NEXT PPV. These other indy feds don't have TV to worry about. Quite often, they don't have the luxury of saying, "Well, there's always next week." They need a quick turnaround, so the guys go out and kill themselves night in and night out. Can't blame them for that, but i can't blame anybody for being "held back" either. That goes back to the initial "2002 TNA > 2005 TNA" argument. TNA wasn't as strong then as they are now.

For angst's argument about cramming as many guys on the two hour show, I just think that would be a temp thing until the cream rises to the top. Eventually, they'd see who works for the fans and who doesn't.

Oh, and I've maybe seen 2 hours of TNA total in my life. So maybe my opinions mean absolutely nothing...





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Lorraine
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 09:48 PM Edit Post
Not to bash Indy promotions, but I've never understood the perception that Indy guys go all out and TnA/WWE wrestlers hold back.

Indy wrestlers wrestle balls out because they're trying to get noticed. They don't have more heart, a bigger love of the sport or a selfless desire to make sure the audience goes home happy. They display every flashy move they have in the hopes that a bigger (and better paying) promotion notices.

And to say that TnA hasn't created stars is bullshit. Sure, they haven't created a mainstream Hogan/Austin type star, but at the same time they've turned an entire roster into recognizable names.

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ModSquad
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 09:51 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by MichiyoYoshiku
My TNA to other indies is proof of that

That's the kind of proof that's irrefutable. I recommend the rest of you guys just back off and let this gentleman drop science. When it comes to research, he's a little bit ahead of the curve. For instance, did you know that:
quote:
PSP problems with the Square button? [He] knew about it weeks before others did


Konami buys Hudson [He] knew they did this 2 years ago when they first came together


N-gage? knew about that before most of the public did


Fellas, I'm willing to bet that he's got some pretty hard information about the collapse and suckiness of TNA and how their workers don't try at all (compared to XQWA, TWA and Pan Am). I'm sure it got leaked to him via the secret IWC on the secret internet a year before TNA debuted.

Nice blog, bemanisuperstar. I can't tell you how thrilled I am you're back.

[Edited on 6-10-2005 by ModSquad]





"The moment that The Rick tells me that I am in the wrong then I will stop. And since I have 10 years of reading his work under my belt I feel fairly confident that he won't since he is a proponent of thinking differently. Save the threats."

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benoitbrokemyneck
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posted on 6-10-2005 at 10:05 PM Edit Post
"... but they DO HOLD BACK ALOT. "


Like when Elix Skipper did a hurracanrana off of a cage... TOTALLY HOLDING BACK. Seriously if he had really been given a chance to shine, we would all be saying. "Remember when Elix lit himself on fire and did a triple 450 into an Osaka Street Cutter from the top of the Staples Center?! THAT WAS NOT HOLDING BACK!"

Get a grip man, most everyone shines in TNA.

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