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Author: Subject: around the hOOrn -- Week 1 -- Round 1
G-B Classic

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posted on 3-20-2005 at 07:07 PM Edit Post
around the hOOrn -- Week 1 -- Round 1

This is the re-inaugural ATH thread.

Here are the rounds...

Round 1 -- Posted: Sunday afternoon, 24-hour deadline
500 words max, one response per contestant
4 winners advance

Round 2 -- Posted: Monday afternoon, 24-hour deadline, gimmicky round
750 words max, one response per contestant
3 winners advance

Round 3 -- Posted: Tuesday afternoon, 48-hour deadline, gimmicky round
No word max, unlimited responses, discussion oriented
2 winners advance

Round 4 -- Posted: Thursday afternoon, 48-hour deadline, open round
No word max, unlimited responses, discussion oriented
1 winner crowned

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Round 1 Question (open for all to answer) -- one response only, 500 word maximum.

Looking at the "Top 5" matches for WrestleMania 21 (Batista-HHH, Cena-JBL, Orton-Taker, HBK-Angle, RAW Ladder Match), how does year's WM stack-up against past events, and does it deserve to be called "The Granddaddy of Them All?"

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Man of a Thousand Holds

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posted on 3-20-2005 at 08:37 PM Edit Post
This Wrestlemania will DEFINITELY not live up to past Wrestlemanias. That being said, it has most of the key elements that most have used in the past. It won't be the worst because 13 was just God awful.

You have the potentially 'holy shit' match with the ladder match. These guys are gonna pull out all the stops and put on one hell of a show. I sort of actually mess Jeff Hardy for these matches. He always had a hell of a spot somewhere.

You have the 'legends' match with HBK & Angle. There have been some great versions of these matches, such as Hogan/Rock. While both are in decline, they were at one time perhaps the greatest wrestlers the company had at their time and here's hoping they can both pull out one great last match before hanging it up.

You have the very popular faces gping for the titles, which almost always happen at Wrestlemania. Usually the faces win, but the HHH ego may not allow that this year, like in the past.

You have Taker looking to continue his streak against Orton. There is always interest to see if Taker's streak continues.

All in all, not great, but the elements are there. It will always be the 'Grandaddy of them all' and the way things have been lately, it;s probably one of the better cards you could hope for.

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Katie Vick killer
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posted on 3-20-2005 at 09:34 PM Edit Post
I’m going to say not very well, I’ll use WM’s 17 and 19 as my example.

WrestleMania 17 had Austin/Rock 2, TLC 2, Taker/Trips and Shane/Vince. That’s 4 matches and one-featured non-wrestlers, which was running off the steam of WCW folding.

And things were built up nice the TLC 2, had the history of TLC 1, WM16’s triangle ladder match, Dudz and Hadryz RR table match and the EC and Hardyz ladder match. 4 years ago a small but extremely competitive tag Division was enough to cause excitement at WM.

Trips and Taker offered us an exciting fresh new legendary encounter (19 had HBK/Jericho and 21 has HBK/angle)

The Main event, Austin/Rock two of the biggest names in the history of pro-wrestling for the WWE championship/

Christ just with those 3 matches WM17 has already got my knickers wet.

WM 21 has got a rush job ladder match, an Orton Match, a Rookie in the ME and Bradshaw Defending the WWE Championship.

Only Angle/HBK has got me excited so far.

4 years ago the tag scene was big and important enough to be at the ME level, Household names were battling it out for the WWE title and the Undertaker had an credible threat to his streak in Triple H.

In 4 years no real progress has been made to create new stars, Project Lesnar walked, Cena gets pops but has questionable talent and Batista is a step in the right direction.

So far on the road to WM we’ve had Jake Roberts and Marty Janetty and the Promise of Austin, Piper and Hogan on the night and much speculation about the Rock. A reliance on the old the guard. Cause the new guys can’t cut it.

Hey G-b can we edit?

Edit done grammar mostly.

[Edited on 21/3/2005 by Katie Vick killer]

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G-B Classic

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posted on 3-20-2005 at 09:49 PM Edit Post
Originally posted by Katie Vick killer

Hey G-b can we edit?

Yeah, you can edit. You just can't change the overall meaning of your content. But you can add to reinforce, as long as it isn't in response to someone else's posting (which yours obviously wouldn't be). We save responding for rounds 3 & 4.

EDIT -- see, I edited!

[Edited on 3-20-2005 by G-B]

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posted on 3-20-2005 at 10:45 PM Edit Post
I think this Wrestlemania has the potential to stack up well with most Wrestlemanias. It may not be the blow away event that we have seen in the past, there is little chance that all five of the top matches will be outstanding, but I also think there is enough there to save it from mediocrity.
Batista – HHH may not be the five star work rate classic that we have seen in the past from Benoit and Angle, but it is what the fans want, so you know it is going to get a huge pop. In some ways it is similar to the Wrestlemania 6 Hogan-Warrior match, you knew the match was not going to be a work rate classic, but the fans were screaming with anticipation.
The ladder match has the potential to be a Hardyz-Dudleys-E&C type match. You have five guys who we know can go balls out in this type of match, and another guy whose size could be an asset to the match.
HBK-Angle could be spectacular. In a lot of ways it is similar to the Hogan-Rock match, but the key difference is that both of these guys are still viable parts of the product. When Hogan and Rock faced off, Hogan was obviously in the twilight of his career, and Rock was already casting his eyes toward Hollywood. Even with Angle’s health and HBK’s age, this one should be a spectacular match between two of the best workers the WWE has seen over the years.
The two wild cards in the top five matches is the JBL-Cena match, and the Orton-Taker match. It is hard to get a real feel for either match. JBL retaining the title, and UT keeping his streak alive seem like the most obvious conclusion, so it will be interesting to see if and how the WWE tweaks the matches. Will they give another untested star a run with the title? It didn’t work so well with Eddie, it has worked well with JBL, are they willing to do it again with Cena? And with UT, are they going to sacrifice his streak in a final attempt to justify the Orton push? In the long scope of things, if they are going to give Cena the title, it seems to make sense that Orton goes over. Down the line a Cena-Orton feud seems natural.
And finally, as for Wrestlemania being called the Grandaddy of them All, of course it should be called that. It was the first, or at least longest lasting PPV. It is the pinnacle of the wrestling year. If you ask any performer, they see Wrestlemania as the biggest stage of all. In past Wrestlemanias you may not have had the greatest matches, but you had the spectacle. Compare it to the Superbowl, there have been years when the games were not that good, but you wouldn’t call it the So-soBowl, it is still the biggest stage of the year in football.

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posted on 3-20-2005 at 10:49 PM Edit Post
Well, Wrestlemania is the “Granddaddy of ‘Em All” because everything else in PPV spawned from it, so the second part of the question is essentially unimportant. Now, whether or not WM XXI gives birth to anything as fun or even as remotely comparable to the past half decade of WMs is a tougher question, although the quick answer is, “Probably not.”

No matter what anyone says, Batista v. Triple H is the main event of the show, and therefore Evolution’s Animal will walk out of the show as new champ. Unlike WM XX or X-7, though, the ending “moment” won’t be as memorable or emotional; Batista taking the strap off his mentor, while entertaining, won’t have the luster that Benoit and Guerrero embracing or Austin uniting with Vince have. It’ll rank up there with HHH beating Jericho at X8: a necessary and decent match that will be overshadowed by other things on the card.

JBL/Cena basically sits where Booker T/HHH sat two years ago. This is a match with only a month of sloppy buildup, and a second-tier feel because of the hype for other things on the card. While Cena might win at Mania, I’m sure his first championship is going to be a “moment” reserved for the next SD! PPV, so this WWE Championship match will rank below the ones from XX and XIX.

While I agree with Orton’s heel turn, his match with the Undertaker has little appeal: it’s what they do with Orton the weeks and months after WM that intrigue me. This match isn’t really comparable to any in recent WM memory, although in the long run I think it’s a better use of Taker than anything else could be. I’m thinking that this match will have one or two neat spots but really won’t put “good” or “bad” dents in the overall “enjoyment” scale.

RAW’s “Money in the Bank” concept has a unique draw to it, since it seems as if everyone in the match is deserving of and can win it. With Benoit, Jericho, Benjamin, and Edge in the mix, there’s a lot of potential here. This was a good move for WM, since there hasn’t been a spotfest since 2001, and it’s a refreshing change from the fatal fourway tag matches that past WMs have used. Will it be as memorable as any of the Dudz/Hardys/E&C matches, or the Razor/HBK bout from WM X? No, but this will be as “fun” as the show gets. And that’s not a bad thing.

Finally, there’s Angle/HBK, the likely show stealer. Like Michaels’ match with Jericho at XIX, this will be the one we’ll be talking about months later, mostly because the buildup isn’t as necessary because the match will probably live to its billing we’re all giving it. Sadly, though, this is the only match that really has the “Wrestlemania Feel” to it.

To pull a Batista, I’m giving the prospect of this show matching anything in recent memory a double thumbs down.

[Edited on 3-21-2005 by borntorun]

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The Immortal One

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posted on 3-21-2005 at 04:37 PM Edit Post
Wrestlemania is the Grand Daddy of them all and this year I still see that title very fitting. We won’t see the greatest Wrestlemania of them all but I believe most people are exaggerating how bad this year’s event will be. This one should be much better then 9 or 13, which are my picks for worst events. We aren’t getting Benoit & Guerrero in the main events (an IWC dream come true), but the casual fans are getting Batista and Cena. Listen to the crowd response these two get and tell me they aren’t happy about the product they will be getting in two weeks. Batista’s match against Triple H has all the luster of the main event. You have a 2-year-old relationship that comes to an end and the student ready to dethrone the teacher. The way this has been handled has been almost flawless. Batista went from the muscle that got almost no response to the Raw Superstar getting early WCW Goldberg response. It may be following formula but this story is working and is the solid backbone to this year’s Wrestlemania. Cena vs JBL is weaker then HHH vs Batista but should still have a Wrestlemania feel. The one thing the WWE has done right is get the casual fans salivating for Cena’s title shots. Last year Cena could have won the US Title long before Wrestlemania. They waited and finally gave the crowd the victory at Wrestlemania in his first ever shot. Since then Cena has been the most over face on Smackdown and could have challenged for the title this summer but he again is kept away from the title, which makes this opportunity more special. JBL has done a fantastic job of character development and now stands as the longest reigning champion in 10 years. This won’t be a Wrestlemania Classic but it Wrestlemania worthy by far. Orton vs Taker still has Wrestlemania luster even though if they did this next year and built it up it would be better. Anytime you build a I cannot spell 'feud' on the streak it makes Wrestlemania itself and this upcoming match important. The IWC may not like Orton’s push but he was good as a heel the first time around and so far I already like him more again. He was the World Champion and is still main event level and the cross promotion of this adds more value. Angle v HBK is really self-explanatory. This is similar to Jericho vs HBK that was simply awesome. Angle’s tribute to HBK’s long history is also adding to this match. I thought Angle vs Jannety was an awesome match and I know Michaels can go better then Marty can so this one should be every bit as good as Jericho vs Michaels was 2 years ago. The 6 person ladder match will be the every bit as good as the TLC matches that came before it. Jericho, Benoit, Edge, and Christian have been in excellent ladder matches before and Shelton and Kane can certainly bring it as well. The title shot on the line only makes this match more interesting and this has Match of the Night written all over it.

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posted on 3-21-2005 at 08:23 PM Edit Post
Is this WrestleMania deserving of the "Grand-Daddy of them All" moniker? Hardly, by the standards of many WrestleManias of the past. By this I mean that the prestige of the upcoming card has been tainted by shoddy writing and hastily thrown-together matches. Though an argument could be made that the WWE World Championship match between Batista and HHH has been prophesied for many months, the remainder of the contests have been unconvincingly slapped together in the last 5-6 weeks. In addition, many of the performers are lacking the savoir-faire, the personality, the genuine heat of the athletes of days gone by. Today's
WM participant is a mix of limited movesets, questionable promo skills, and ambiguous crowd appeal.

By way of comparison, let me draw a parallel to WrestleMania 3, which boasts the highest live attendance of WM's 20-year history. First off, there must have been something of epic magnitude in order to draw 90,000+ fans to Michigan in March. The main event was Hogan-Andre, a colossal battle that had been in the fantasy books for what seemed like eons. The anticipation was electric. Ironically, the main event was overshadowed by the sleeper match of the night, Savage vs. Steamboat. It seemed every match was something that fans could look forward to, something that had been building up to a climactic explosion. And every participant was someone that the fans actually CARED about -- beloved or reviled, there wasn't a ho-hum player on the bill.

Of course, that was 18 years ago, and during a renaissance period for pro wrestling. But it set a standard, a benchmark by which all future WrestleManias could be measured. The PPV forthcoming falls sadly short. The matches, with a couple of exceptions, could be something main-eventing a blah night on Raw or Smackdown. What we've been given is a watered-down, decaffeinated version of what used to be a spectacle full of pomp, circumstance, and memorable, magical moments. I, for one, will mourn the loss.

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G-B Classic

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posted on 3-21-2005 at 08:29 PM Edit Post
Round 1 is over, and we got 6 great responses. Alas, we can only have four advance…

KVK – anyone who says WMX7 gets their “knickers wet” is okay in my book!
mooseheadjack – the Super Bowl analogy was right on the money
BTR – great overall
roxtar – finally, someone willing to flat out say this WM doesn’t deserve the granddaddy moniker

This question is now open for all to discuss, round 2 will be posted shortly…

Edited for BOLD screw-ups

[Edited on 3-21-2005 by G-B]

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The Great One

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posted on 3-21-2005 at 09:06 PM Edit Post
Can the non-players comment on the responses now??
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G-B Classic

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posted on 3-21-2005 at 09:53 PM Edit Post
Oh yeah, have at 'em!
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