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Author: Subject: APC's cover of "Imagine"
bigfatgoalie
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posted on 10-31-2004 at 04:33 AM Edit Post
APC's cover of "Imagine"

A Perfect Circle for some reason covered one of the best songs of all time, John Lennon's "Imagine" on their new cd eMOTIVe. What's more they made a video for it. Here's a quote from their website "The video features chilling visual images that give relevance to this great classic." The website then goes on to ask people to spead the word about this music video.

Two things...first, why cover a song that was done perfectly and NEVER required a cover song. Also, the video doesn't add relevance to the song...the song's full of relevance as is.

To really learn what a fucking ass clown Maynard is in his own self-indulgence you really need to hear the interview with Maynard on the creative meaning of the video. It's one thing to be fucking artsy fartsy when it's harmless...but thinking your adding anything to one of the fucking best songs EVER, and then saying it's funny that it won't get played is just being a pretentious prick.

Oh and the number one reason why APC's version of Imagine won't get played....IT SUCKS!!!






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salmonjunkie
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posted on 10-31-2004 at 09:44 AM Edit Post
I love APC. I like most of what Maynard does. Saying that, though, I agree, their version of Imagine is atrocious.






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Slade
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posted on 10-31-2004 at 03:34 PM Edit Post
I have not heard it, but I am willing to believe both of you that it sucks. Afterall, it is a cover of a song that was pretty mediocre to begin with. I cannot imagine anybody being able to find a way to turn a boring song into an interesting one.





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masterofpigeons
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posted on 10-31-2004 at 09:42 PM Edit Post
Maynard said the CLIP wouldnt get played because of the content of the clip - current events images of the atrocities of war is likely too "edgy" for mainstream media like MTV. Radio has been playing the song with no problems. Also, the video isn't trying to add relevance to the SONG, its trying to make issues relevant to a mass of people who normally couldn't care less about what's going on more than a few miles away from their homes.
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Eli
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posted on 11-2-2004 at 05:39 PM Edit Post
Can we get a link? Bueller? Bueller?





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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 11-2-2004 at 05:42 PM Edit Post
http://boss.streamos.com/real/virg001/a_perfect_circle/video/emotive/imagine_w_interview_hi.ram?siteid=artistsite

EDIT: you should be warned that the above link requires the crap-tastic Real One player.


[Edited on 11-2-2004 by bigfatgoalie]






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nilesanderson
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posted on 11-8-2004 at 01:07 PM Edit Post
Honestly, I gotta stand up for this song. Because it offers a different perspective on the original. John Lennon's version is so full of hope. It just screams of hopefulness in it's tone, lyrics and everything else. APC's version just sucks all the hope out and makes it devestating, in a sense making it their own, but not stealing it from Lennon at all. I have yet to see the video, but I'd like too. I think everybody should check it out and make their own judgement. We all know BFG usually overreacts to these sorts of things and tries to shove his opinions down our throats.






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Slade
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posted on 11-9-2004 at 04:04 AM Edit Post
I heard the song today. I must agree with Niles that it offers a different perspective...


... a different perspective that sucks!


What a waste of audio tape!





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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 11-17-2004 at 01:58 AM Edit Post
Might I point out that, while I think the song is crappy, BFG forfeited his right to an opinion on cover songs by being all JOSS STONE OMG SHE'S SO AWESOME AND IT TOTALLY ISN'T STUPID THAT SHE COVERED A THREE YEAR OLD SONG!!!!!!!!

And, by the way, that cover was about ten times worse than the Imagine cover, even factoring in that Imagine is a classic.





I raise six glasses every night, just to get drunk enough to love this country like I did as a kid: without feeling like it's using me.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 11-17-2004 at 07:29 AM Edit Post
Really? I seem to remember other people who agree with my view on Joss...including Slade, Laner, and LuckyLopez. Also, I'd like to point out that it's SLADE and not me who has gushed about that cover in multiple threads. So I'd say you give up your opinion on anything I post due to you petty dickness.

And really, time doesn't mean jack shit. A good cover is a good cover, and Joss' version of "Fell In Love With a Boy" is a good cover.

APC's version of Imagine is not. really, does it hurt that much to admit I was right?






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masterofpigeons
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posted on 11-17-2004 at 12:24 PM Edit Post
I'm going to have to agree with what Niles said earlier here and sort of expand on what he said. Think of the original release of the Lennon song... about 30 years ago. Vietnam was coming to a close, and you could make a case for a hopeful spirit in terms of revolution, and Lennon's song kind of conveyed that. It's not as if Lennon's Imagine is the cheeriest song in the world, but you do get a feeling of hope from it that one day everything will be alright.

Fast-forward to thirty years later, and APC makes a deliberately-uncomfortable version of the John Lennon classic. It's pretty much all in minor, which is something that usually gets on people's nerves... it's the kind of sound that doesn't offer much comfort. But think about the implications: thirty years later, the revolution has never happened. It never will. Maybe hope has stopped, maybe APC's cover of Imagine represents their feeling that now, we're not imagining a better future, but only some kind of fantasy dream world, and the fact that the "better future" dream is gone is really embittering.

The fact that the song was transposed over to minor might alienate a large part of the listening audience, I won't disagree with that. The song definitely doesn't offer much in terms of what we're used to getting out of songs - there is no resolution whatsoever. And especially that it gives no resolution to a song that has been a source of inspiration to people for about 30 years now... that's a brutal thing to do. It really massacres the message of the original and turns it on its head, and I'd say that's the reason why this cover is so good - the fact that it carries so much unspoken meaning just by changing a few elements of the song.

Give the song just a bit of thought, and you'll find there's a lot to like about it - or at least it gives something to think about. And if not, well, I suppose we can go back to our regular daily programming.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 11-17-2004 at 06:30 PM Edit Post
quote:
Originally posted by masterofpigeons
Fast-forward to thirty years later, and APC makes a deliberately-uncomfortable version of the John Lennon classic. It's pretty much all in minor, which is something that usually gets on people's nerves... it's the kind of sound that doesn't offer much comfort. But think about the implications: thirty years later, the revolution has never happened. It never will. Maybe hope has stopped, maybe APC's cover of Imagine represents their feeling that now, we're not imagining a better future, but only some kind of fantasy dream world, and the fact that the "better future" dream is gone is really embittering.



"You may say I'm a dreamer"

Imagine isn't a song that promises a better tomorrow. Lennon's version gives us a look at a fantasy dream world that has peace. The fact that the world still suffers and has war for the same reason's as when Lennon wrote the song only adds to the "dream" element of HIS version. Lennon isn't saying "the world will be a better place some day" but rather is asking people to form a mental picture of how good the world could be. Lennon is asking us to join him as a dreamer. He is asking people to not give up hope. He is saying the world COULD be a better place, if we just imagine.

And I don't dislike the APC version because it offers no comfort...I dislike it because it sounds like crap. The vocals are about as enjoyable as listening to a cat have kittens, and the music sounds like computer generated gargle. And it does all this WITHOUT adding to Lennon's vision. Imagine clearly states there'slittle hope for the future if the world stays the same and the only way we can see a better tomorrow is to imagine it in our minds.

You may say "ooohhhh the song is deliberatley uncomfortable" and to that I say, why bother making a cover song bad or purpose if it doesn't even begin to add anything to the original.






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Slade
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posted on 11-18-2004 at 02:05 AM Edit Post
I just love it how every now and then I stumble into a thread where Ultra Magnus is acting like a super dick towards Big Fat Goalie by attempting to rip 'em a new one, but always ends up looking like a giant fool for it. Will he ever learn?





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Endo
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posted on 11-18-2004 at 04:47 AM Edit Post
I'm an APC fan, I picked up Emotive and enjoyed the disk. Part of it, though, is my penchant for doom and gloom songs. I sing bass-baritone, and my favorite time of year to sing is Lent because of the themes of doom and gloom and man's failing. This has always been the kind of mood APC works in, and if you don't like that kind of music the whole of Emotive will turn you off.

Imagine takes the Lenon song and manages to make it sound post-apocolyptic. There's still that glimmer of hope, but it's fading fast. In a way it gets you to the uncomfortable realities that no one's comfortable talking about. We never will have the utopian society of everyone working peacefully and not fighting each other. No one wants to accept this, though. Lenon spoke of an ideal situation, which makes the title all the more appropriate. But when he wrote it, people thought they really could make the world utopian. Since then we've seen the great enemy, the USSR, collapse under it's own weight, only to see a new and far more terrifying one emerge. We can still hope for a utopian peace, but we've lost that innocense that made us believe it could actually happen.

As a whole, the entire disc is politically charged and very anti-Bush, similar to American Idiot (which I very much enjoy). The songs try to express the horrors of warfare and where a militaristic, war-happy society will ultimately lead. It's not going to be uplifting, and it wasn't designed to be that way. Is Manyard a little egotistical when he speaks about the intent and impact of the record? Of course. But he also has several thousand people pay money to listen to his words and cheer for him. That'd probably get to my already egotistical head, too.





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posted on 11-18-2004 at 05:22 AM Edit Post
besides the 'yoohooo" bit which sounded stupid on the origional as well it's a pretty good version. People just get all pissy because it's Lennon ike he's above being covered or something.

Why would you cover 'Fell in love with a girl?' it'd be like remaking The Blair Witch Project.





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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 11-18-2004 at 10:35 AM Edit Post
Edit[2]: [deleted] ...gives me no right to derail the thread. [deleted]

Even my edits need edits. I'm feeling ornery lately.

[Edited on 11-18-2004 by Ultra Magnus]

[Edited on 11-18-2004 by Ultra Magnus]





I raise six glasses every night, just to get drunk enough to love this country like I did as a kid: without feeling like it's using me.

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salmonjunkie
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posted on 11-19-2004 at 05:38 PM Edit Post
To be fair, it's the A Perfect Circle fans that have taken up to calling them "APC", not any media guy or Maynard himself.

Pink Floyd will never be "PF" because Pink Floyd is not that long of a name to type out anyway. And back then, fans weren't using acronyms to type about their bands .

"APC" is just quicker to type than "A Perfect Circle". Actually, I've never heard anyone ever verbally say "APC", but typed I see it all the time. None of their merchandise ever says "APC".

Like A Tribe Called Quest. Fans of their just call them "Tribe" and usually just type "ATCQ", even though nobody ever says "ATCQ". But if you're not a fan, you don't know what "ATCQ" means.

also Rage Against The Machine, mostly spoken as "Rage" mostly typed out as "RATM". But no one ever says "RATM". And likewise, unless you're a fan, the letters "RATM" mean nothing to you. (although, I do believe their website was RATM.com)

One more. who is even less known then APC: At The Drive In: ATDI. No one ever actually says "ATDI". Hell most people don't even know who At The Drive In is. Just something their own fans type out on message boards and e-mails.

And of course, with the age of the internet, and using acronyms for everything, it's no surprise. I don't think I've ever seen "ATCQ", "RATM", "ATDI" or "APC" outside of the internet. I don't even know if I've seen any of those acronyms on print.

Chances are if your band with a long name came out long before the internet did, then you won't have an acronym. Even then, it won't unless it's pretty unique to their band.

"PF" probably isn't that unique, and their fans don't identify those initials with the band. And that's the only reason why you don't see it. Has nothing to do with importance of a band, doesn't have any factor into how cretinous the band members are. It's just fans being lazy on the keyboard.

(and yeah, I fully acknowledge that there are people who aren't fans of those bands, but still recognize the initials. But that's not the point.)



[Edited on 11-19-2004 by salmonjunkie]






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salmonjunkie
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posted on 11-19-2004 at 05:49 PM Edit Post
I can't argue with you on the part about Maynard covering Imagine.

And I LIKE Maynard.



You know what they say about dirty deeds. They're done dirt cheap,

[Edited on 11-19-2004 by salmonjunkie]






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LillyX
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posted on 11-20-2004 at 03:02 AM Edit Post
Iíve read lots of debates over this remake, but I finally herd the cover yesterday. Maynard has done better and heís probebly done worse. I have no love for the Beatles whatsoever, so I wasnít as critqicial of the remake as most people. Matter of fact, I prefer most Beatles covers to the original songs. Just remember, if you think APCís cover of Imagine is bad, Iíll find Tracy Spencerís preschool talent show version Imagine.





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nilesanderson
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posted on 11-20-2004 at 03:41 PM Edit Post
Maybe it's just because I'm a Maynard fan, but I stand by that this is a good cover because of the fact that it takes a different perspective. It's not all techno-ized (like Madonna's horrible cover of American Pie), it's dark and depressing. It is, in a sense, inaccessable. I would think it was a shitty cover if they copied the band exactly (a la Atari's Boys of Summer) and offered nothing new to the song.

Which brings me to Goalie being an idiot. I think it's obvious that many people think that A Perfect Circle's cover of Imagine offers a new perspective to the song. Not all of these people said they liked the song, but they saw it's intent. So the part about you shoving your opinion down people's throats when you're convinced you're right about something isn't an attack on your opinion of the song, but rather on your refusal to accept that maybe it offers something different. Hell, even what you typed in your post was a summation of what MasterofPigeons had to say. Lennon's song wasn't a cheerful tune, but it was hopeful. Even 30 years from the day it was released, it is still relevant. However, just because we should be hopeful doesn't mean everybody is. Some people may find the A Perfect Circle cover will speak more to them than the original does. It's the differance between cynicism and optimism.

Personally, I consider myself neither (or both, whichever fits), it depends on the day. Regardless though, rather than get all pissy at people who disagree with you, why not quit being a bitch and acknowledge that, however shitty you might think a song is, it might have something there for some people.






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Slade
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posted on 11-20-2004 at 04:40 PM Edit Post
For those people who like this song because it speaks to them, due to its dark mood and depressing overtones, I suggest suicide as a cheap, easy, and effective way to escape their misery.

[Edited on 11-20-2004 by Slade]





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Ultra Magnus
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posted on 11-21-2004 at 06:10 AM Edit Post
Oh, fuck you, Slade, you fucking douche. You pompous fucking ass. Some people here like a song that you and I don't like, and you wish death upon them? Fuck you, and the motherfucking high horse you rode in on. In fact, climb down from that high horse, you insensitive prick, and bend over so it can tear your asshole apart as it fucks you hard.

You want to post in this thread? How about contributing something beyond, "I, Slade, am a worthless piece of shit,"--can you do that? Or would it interfere with your fucking "Holier than thou, thou, thou--fuck, I'm holier than everyone" attitude?

What exactly did Niles, Endo, masterofpigeons, or whomever else liked the song do to you that you wish death upon them? Fuck you, asshole, they did FUCK ALL to you, and you're just a fucking arrogant little cunt.

Fuck off.





I raise six glasses every night, just to get drunk enough to love this country like I did as a kid: without feeling like it's using me.

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bigfatgoalie
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posted on 11-21-2004 at 06:24 AM Edit Post
I think the point Slade was making that it's tiresome to hear the "my life sucks/the world sucks/it all sucks" crowd when talking about music. These are typically the people who bitch about Britney and the likes when forgetting that 99% of the bands they like have a set image to go with the music they play. If you really think he wants people to kill themselves then you need to stop sniffing the glue and lay of the sauce. No matter how whacked up you get, Bush will strill be President.

Oh, and Omega...man you are nuts. How is it better to use cheap muscial alterations (all in minor) then to change the style of a song? And how the hell is APC's version not techno upped? It doesn't sound organic by any mean slappy.

Also, for all the bitching about Madonna's America Pie cover, does it matter at all that the guy who wrote it likes her version?






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