10.Andre the Giant with Bobby Heenan
9.The Goodwins with Hillbilly Jim
8.Terry Taylor, with Bobby Heenan
7.Zack Gowen, with Mr. America
5.The Hardy's with Micheal Hayes
4.The York Foundation
3.Hulk Hogan with the NwO
2.HHH with DX
1.Yokozuna, with Jim Cornette
The list above features the most beneficial wrestlers when given a new manager/partner. Stone Cold. Rock. What about them! they did not get new partners or managers, instead they dumped bad gimmicks, partners, and managers to achieve their greatness. This list is for the men who were going nowhere, or had stalled in their career and with new direction went main event status. This list is to support the idea of a New Varsity Club!
Now the old Varsity Club of Rotunda(o),Steiner, and Williams managed by Kevin Sullivan was a great revival in heel factions during a time when the Horseman ran the sport. It took a simple idea (as the entire list does) take a few talented guys and put them with a talented mouth and watch the magic happen. An old school formula that is easily applied today, especially in a weak tag team division. The best possible candidates: Jindrak and Cade.
The names alone Cade and Jindrak do nothing for me, in fact they do not even sound good together. So the idea is to keep the names but add a team name. Morton and Gibson, Eaton and Condrey, or Micheals and Janetty, do they sound appealing? Add Rock'N'Roll, Midnight to the word Express or Midnight Rockers and you have a new exciting team. The problem with Cade and Jindrak are they do not have an exciting style (not to say they cannot develop one), but they are limited. That is why the comparison to the Varsity Club is so perfect.
I do not knock the members of the original Varsity Club, the men involved all get respect as mat wrestlers or genuine tough guys. Cade and Jindrak,give them Sullivan to help build the legitimacy of the name as their mouth piece or avoid his backstage antics and give them Steiner! Rick Steiner the odd ball talking to his hand, wearing his headgear, and barking! The perfect manager. Risk can still mix it up in the ring, but as fans that is not what is needed, I feel back story coming on....
Rick Steiner comes to WWE looking to team with his brother to be tag champions again. Scott says no and along with Test beats the hell out of Rick. Now Cade and Jindrack are sitting on the sidelines losing every week to the Dudleys, LIGHTBULB! Rick says Scott if you will not help me I will get those belts some other way, reintroduce Alex (Rick's hand with a face on it) and the idea of making the new Varsity Club! Go out and buy the two guys some letterman jackets and boom! New team with a current goal become champs, they have heels waiting to challenge them in Steiner and Test, and a natural new member in Chris Nowinski upon his return. Now also with the Nowinski's return natural designation and dumping of Steiner in a power struggle.
So in turn the fans and wrestlers get a new hot team from guys that are already there (Vince does not have to spend much cash) a tag team legend gets a send off, and an outcast MTV show loser gets instant heat after a short face run. Biggest winner is tag divison.
Eh... I'm not in to it. I mean, WCW tried to bring back the Varsity Club in 1999 and you know how it did? Terrible - it flopped. Why? Because
unlike the Horsemen the Varsity Club didn't really go down as a legendary stable. I loved them, and it sounds like you did as well, but they
were not big enough to be still known by many who were not NWA fans in the late 80s, and that's not too many these days.
Having Steiner out there ranting and raving (I'm not sure where you're "Rick's good on the stick" theory comes from) will only serve to totally confuse fans, not elevate Jindrak/Cade. I think the key to these sorts of things is to rekindle the *spirit* of the original, not the letter. If J/C need to be elevated, have them copy Rotundo's dickish heelishness and his mat style. Have them copy Dr. Death's intensity. But don't have them wear singlets because then how are they different from TWGTT or Nowinski (who I don't think needs them to be over - he does just fine with his gimmick on his own)? Sure they could use a mouthpiece, so bring in a good talker like Mike Sanders, who may not get the crowd pop that Rick will, but will be a better talker and will accomplish what the goal is here (the elevation of J/C).
PS - I have to take much exception to a few on your list. Andre was a HUGE star before and after Heenan. Taylor went nowhere with Heenan, Hardys went nowhere with Hayes (if anything I'd say Lita for them), and Zach would have been just as effective without Hogan. If anything, I think Hogan rode Zach's tails as he used interest in Zach to stay at the top.
I was also a big fan of the original unit. They had talent, Sullivan, and a theme of amateur sports excellence.
Not sure if J&C have amateur backgrounds to justify using them in this angle. And agree with Antelope on Rick's limitations, although he could work into a Varsity Club somewhere. I'd rather see Sanders come in for a version of NBT.
Of course if they got Kristina Laum jumping on a trampoline again I would not complain
Let me defend the list first.
Andre big star, where was he Wrestlemania one and two? Not in the main event. Heenan talked, the Giant looked scary, without Bobby there would have been no Wrestlemania 3 main event. The Giant was not able to get the match over orally, and even back in 1987 you had to talk the talk before you could walk the walk.
Zack Gowen, the one legged wrestler. This is easy to defend, where is he now that Hogan is gone? thank you.
Hardy Brothers, total jobbers before Hayes. During Hayes they lost a few and won a few more. The point is they won a few more, hello, they won! That is a benefit. By the time miss Lita came about they were already over, the fact is Lita could be on the list somewhere for using them.
Now for the Varsity Club thing. J and C could use this in a lot of ways that you are not opening your eyes wide enough to see. Whether they wrestled in college or played football in Pee Wee leagues is not (that is why it is a storyline) relevant. The entire part of the story is "Varsity Club" is not the Horseman, which avoids most comparisons as they develop as a team. It is like I would never call them the Freebirds, but maybe the Mulkey's; the name is established where the old-schoolers get a feel for what they are trying to do, and the new schoolers sit with their heads in the clouds, or up their. nevermind.
Why change the style to become old school guys? Everyone knows Williams and Rotunda are not guys who got way over (IRS is a big maybe) I am not suggesting that. I am saying let them ride into the future with a visit from the past.
Instant credibility with today's fan because they know Rick Steiner and his brother. So right away you set up a fan base supporting Rick's team Then when they win the belts you set up the immediate feud with Test and Scott, without even trying to set up a major story, it is already there!
Now the Nowinski thing is an easy way out of it, he is a dickish heel who joins the new champs in wearing the jackets, but is able to make Rick seem stupid and boom, another feud with heat. They are way over in either staying with Rick, or turning heel.
Rick on the microphone, the beauty is he is not great on the stick. He talks to his hand, he barks without warning. The stutters and goofiness is what makes his character so easy to love and be over.
Smarts stop over doing it, look at the simple story. Brother against brother, it works, look at the civil war.
I'm just not going to blindly let you say "brother v. brother" works. Yes it can work, but it can also fail. A few examples - hey the Edge v.
Christian feud was OK, but it didn't set the world on fire. Stevie Ray and Booker T feuded in WCW and it absolutely sucked. And, lest you think
I favor fake brothers, when the Hradys first broke up and tried to feud in late 01 it sucked so bad that they were all 3 removed from screen for a
month to recover.
Yes Bret v. Owen was good, Kane v. UT was good at times, but I don't think you can just say that bro v. bro will work. You have to have good workers to back it up. When Rick and Scott feuded in WCW it sucked - why should it be different now when Scott is LESS over then he was in WCW and Rick is LESS ring ready then he was (not saying he sucks - just syaing he has not been in any high profile matches for AGES now)?
And serisously, the hand-talking, barking, happy-go-lucky DFG Rick Steiner is LOOOONG dead. Rick's character hasn't been anything like that for years and years - I don't see him realistically pulling it off.
As for not having any amateur experience - then why would they be called the Varsity Club? The name implies some connection to collegiate athletics - not because that's what Rotundo and WIlliams and Steiner did, but because ithas the word "Varsity" in it. You can't just suddenly start calling Big SHow and A-Train the Varsity Club because it amkes no sense, nor does iut for them, even if they get a manager who was once in the Club.
As for Andre - in WMI he was in the semi-main, in WM2 he was in the semi-main (and in fact they promoted WM2 as having 3 mains - oine in each city, so you could even argue that he WON the main event there if you wanted). I'd say that's pretty over. Rock wasn't in the Main event at either WM18 or 19, but I think we can all see that it doesn't mean Rock's LESS of a star then Jericho or Angle - smae deal with Andre compared to Bundy or Mr. T.
I still want to hear TOP TEN defend Terry Taylor & Bobby Heenan.
Originally posted by Dynamicjt
I still want to hear TOP TEN defend Terry Taylor & Bobby Heenan.
Rick Steiner was the Billy Gunn of WCW. A good tag wrestler and a decent singles wrestler who could never quite get himself over with the fans as a legimate singles wrestler. Why bring in a guy who was only ever over as a member of a team or stable?
First off Terry Taylor. I did not say long lasting with the manager, I said a benefit in the career of the person. Terry Taylor, an over achiever in
WCW and UWF, I am not sure how he ever got where he was nationally, but two times in his career he was well known, the York Foundation and as the Red
Terrence got a much needed lift in WCW with Miss Alex York, the "computer of Doom" helped him win many a match. There is no arguing there, correct? The one I am being asked to defend is the Red Rooster, Bobby Heenan comment. Survivor Series, main event, that is a nice touch. I wanna dwell a little deeper. Let's look at who came into the WWE/F at that time. Sam Houston, Ron Bass, Dusty Rhodes and Terry Taylor. Now Dusty was obviously the biggest (no fat jokes)! of the four. Bass had a rep but not much of a run except against the Barber that was short lived. Sam Houston and Terry Taylor were coming in pretty much even. Both had below average WWE/F bodies, personalties and reputations, but Terry had Heenan. Follow me here because this is going to answer the other question of "why Rick Steiner" (again)
Bobby Heenan, natural heel with lots of enemies, so in turn Taylor inherits lots of enemies thus giving him a good spot on the roster. He goes from lower mid carder to high mid carder and chances of lower main eventer, just because of this Heenan family alliance. Now in turn when he breaks off the alliance he has a natural enemy in the same man who lead him to this spot, Bobby Heenan. Did you follow that, Bobby Heenan is to Terry Taylor as Rick Steiner is to J/C.
Rick has the natural enemies his brother and Test, along with whom ever the tag champs are at the time. J/C then inherit the natural enemies and fight Rick's battles for him. Introduce Nowinski as the man to break up the new Varsity Club alliance or turn Rick into the heel setting up his brother's next run at the tag titles it all works out. Hell you could have Rick and Scott join together after Test steals the Varsity Club. The ideas are endless and I believe them to have teeth. Worse thing that happens is big Pappa Pump and Rick Steiner retire together.
By the way to the person talking about they are not real college athletes why give them that name. I will tell you a few rumors I heard to be untrue:
Tito Santana was not a Matador.
Ricky Steamboat, never even saw a dragon!
Harley Race, no kingdom in site.
Undertaker, never really died.
There are more, but I do not want to put you in total shock, these are what we called "storylines"
Why is it that whomever the current tag champs are would automatically be natural enemies to Rick Steiner? If Scott is to be a natural enemy to Rick
for turning his back on him and if Test/Big Poppa are fighting the Dudz for the titles would it not stand to reason that Rick might be interested in
helping the Dudz keep the belts away from Scott.
I mean seriously, who other than Scott Steiner does Rick really have an extensive history with on RAW that they would automatically be an enemy to Rick? Booker T and that is about it, and Booker is rumored to be hanging them up in a few months anyway. Taylor inherits the enemies of Heenan because the Brain is already an established heel in the WWE with a long list of face wrestlers out to get him. Which is why you need an established entity in the WWE to take a team like Jindrak and Cade under its wing, a-la Evolution with Orton and Batista. Rick Steiner has no real established roots in the WWE and his rub would likely fade quickly once fans realize there really is nothing that compelling about him as the leader of a team. If they are willing to turn Jindrak and Cade heel I would suggest they become the newest members of Team Mattitude. He at least has the chops and the ability to get Cade and Jindrak a decent rub.
Honestly, if not for the Stacie Keibler factor I don't know that fans would care that much about what Test and Big Poppa do.
Listen carefully, Princess. Why would you call guys the Varsity Club for no reason what-so-f'n-ever? The whole point of that group was that they were elite jocks (in a fed with a lot of fans who did not go to college or belong to frats, etc.) Why not call some luchadores the Varsity Club? Why not call them the Minnesota Wrecking Crew or the Killer B's or the British Bulldogs or the Bushwackers or the Natural Disasters or the Texas Hangmen or the Godwinns or the Amazing Fucking French Canadians? Those were story lines too, junior!
I think both doublee and outback put it nicely but I'll add a few quick things:
Your are conveniently ignoring the rest of Taylor's WWF career - where was he after he left Heenan? He tanked and was a jobber. Heenan gave him a very, very brief run near the top, I'll give you that, but in doing so he killed Taylor's long-term prospects. Jindrak/Cade are young guys with the potential to one day be Main Eventers - why sacrifice that to get them a quick run at the top, which could result in fan apathy after that run, as it did with Taylor?
Heenan is so much of a better talker then Steiner it's not even funny. That's what a manager needs to be in order to get guys over. Refer back to the last two points to elaborate on why Rick would not do as well, but I'll add that Heenan had the mic skills to make people care a tiny bit about a match between the Red Rooster and the Brooklyn Brawler. Rick does not.
You're examples of the Matador, Dragon etc are all from the mid-90s, which is a style NOT employed in the WWE anymore. There's a reason that in the past few years we've lost gimmicks like The Godfather - they don't work anymore. Almost no one in the WWE is far removed from what they actually are.
To title your reply "I'll talk slower" was a pretty dickhead thing to do. It won't make you any friends around here.
Ok Chuckles, I've had enough of your posts. You're trying to come off like you have any clue whatsoever about what you're talking
about, and your Terry Taylor analysis just showed me what a knob you are.
First of all, I am in disbelief that you compared Terry Taylor to Sam Houston as far as where they were when they came into the WWF. Sam Houston was a jobber with a bit of a profile, and that's about it. He may have had a few matches before the WWF, yes, but he was nowhere near as highly regarded as Taylor was.
You forgot one other guy that came into the WWF at that time, someone who was very camparable to Taylor... Ted DiBiase. They were on pretty close to the same level in the UWF at the time, both high on the card, not quite where Dr. Death was, but with Terry Gordy, One Man Gang, and Jim Duggan formed a pretty good group of guys that could justifiably main event a tv show at that time.
When Taylor and DiBiase came to the WWF, it was a big deal. They were both seen as guys who could make a big impact on the company. They were both not overwhelming physically, but had the intangibles to be successful. DiBiase was fortunate enough to end up with one of, if not THE greatest heel gimmicks in WWF history. Taylor, for whatever reason, got stuck with one of the worst. That is where the separation between their percieved value took place. Pre-WWF, they were both seen as big players.
And then of course you suggest that there is a possibility for Rick Steiner to come in and do something. Have you seen Rick in the last 3 years? Is the solution to the WWE's tag team division suckiness a bloated guy with shitty mic skills talking to his hand? Get a tape of his promo on Chucky.
Please, do me a huge favour. Take your keyboard and unhook it from your computer. Get on your tricycle. Put the keyboard in the little basket on your tricycle. Peddle it as fast as your little legs will go, until you reach a large body of water. Throw the keyboard into the water. Never, ever type another word again. If you do not follow these directions to the letter, you WILL make Jesus cry.
I don't think that being a dick is something this guy is really worried about.
Point from your D-Fence (omg u k-rack me up lol!!!!!11!): something to the effect of "the hardys won more with hayes"
Hate to break it to you, but no one is keeping track of wins and losses. HHH (excepting ppv's) probably has a losing record (I am not going to take the time to verify this, it just seems he loses an awful lot in non ppv matches). It's not like wins in wrestling mean the same as wins to say Lennox Lewis or the Yankees.
I would much rather see Mike Sanders come in and redo the Thrillers with J&C (and even Nowinski and/or Maven if necessary) rather than see a once great talent embarass himself by showing off how past-his-prime he is.
There, ya happy Eoghann. I flamed AND added something constructive. Here's hoping I am lucky enough to have at least begun to approach your lofty standards.
Mike Sanders and the rebirth of the Thrillers is a good idea, but it gives no instant story. Admit it, most WWE fans need things spoon fed to them, and the return of Sanders would offer no crowd pop. We have to remember that were not Joe-Average fan in the crowd. No matter how much we know someone has talent most people at the tv tapings just reconise a face. That is where Rick Steiner or even a Road Warrior Animal become potential rubs for tag teams.