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Rumor Crap 2018: Part III
CCharger - 7-23-2018 at 08:53 PM

Since the latest Rumor Crap thread has devolved into multiple royberto-incited flame wars and a vapid and repetitive discussion on THINGS WE HATE, I decided to simply re-boot the thread to try and refocus on actual news and rumors.

If you want to argue with royberto or discuss which wrestler or fan groups just REALLY piss you off, please refer to the older thread.

With that said:

* It is looking more and more like Lashley/Reigns will not have a clean finish and the match at SummerSlam could be a Three Way match until Vince makes up his mind about who will win.

* WWE recently filed for a federal trademark for the name Starrcade which could be the name for the rumored women's PPV

* The Rock recently made some comments in an interview about John Cena, mentioning he hoped he could help Cena with is transition from wrestling to Hollywood. That seems to suggest that Cena will be leaving the WWE for a full time movie career.


denverpunk - 7-23-2018 at 09:24 PM

I kind of think Cena is in that realm already, being in some successful movies already and having his Special Attraction schedule. The question is if he cuts the lifeline and goes to Hollywood for good, or stays the course with what he's already doing - I could see either, but he has nothing more to prove in wrestling.


CCharger - 7-23-2018 at 09:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
I kind of think Cena is in that realm already, being in some successful movies already and having his Special Attraction schedule. The question is if he cuts the lifeline and goes to Hollywood for good, or stays the course with what he's already doing - I could see either, but he has nothing more to prove in wrestling.

I think Cena will always be involved with the WWE as a special attraction. Maybe a couple times a year, filming schedule permitting.

But with the success of Blockers and his starring role in the new Bumblebee movie, I think Cena could be wrestling's next breakout movie star.


phansett - 7-23-2018 at 11:14 PM

I think Cena’s 4th of July, what it means to be American, was one of the better PSA type social media videos I have seen in a while. I’ll try to find and link...

Here it is - looks like it’s a couple years old. Regardless, I hadn’t seen it until my better half showed me this year. I think he comes across more starlike than the meathead schtik you often see. Just my opinion.

https://youtu.be/0MdK8hBkR3s



[Edited on 7-23-2018 by phansett]


williamssl - 7-24-2018 at 12:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
If they do a women's only PPV, you can bet that Ronda will either be champion going into it or will be winning the title in the main event. Alexa's not meant to be a draw, she's meant to be someone for the draw to smack down on her way to the top. That's how heels are supposed to work (NWA Ric Flair being the biggest exception to that rule, but, y'know, he's fucking Ric Flair).

It's also worth noting that, while they're not known for long term planning, Ronda is clearly a) Stephanie's pet project and b) been in the works for quite a while even before she showed up at the Rumble. They definitely have a booking plan for her, more so than maybe anyone else in the whole damn company, because they've wholly invested in having Ronda work and be a crossover star. She changes the game because she's a person who got famous in something else going to WWE instead of using WWE as a springboard to something else. It makes them a destination and not a stop.




People like the chase...the challenger face coming after and finally beating the champion heel.

We have Summer Slam, Hell in a Cell, and then the likely women's only PPV.

I can easily see:
Alexa retaining at SS. Key word = retaining. She gets DQ'd via Mickie interference or the like and ends with Rhonda beating the snot out of Mickie. Ronda gets the win and looks good at the end of this match/show. Alexa keeps the belt.

They face off in a cell at HIAC and Ronda wins and captures the belt.

Mandatory rematch happens at the women's only with Ronda headlining against Bliss, winning and retaining.


Flash - 7-24-2018 at 12:57 AM

Cena's actually done quite a great job of picking the right projects in his quest to transition over to the big screen... Lot's of supporting comedy roles (trainwreck, sisters, Daddy's home.. ect) slowly moving towards a leading but still part of an ensemble roles (blockers, Bumblebee) where he doesn't have to carry the full weight of the movie's potential failure, but still big enough that he breaks out, and even doing some smaller scale dramatic stuff like The Wall to beef up his resume, and a slew of voice acting roles (Ferdinand, TMNT) to keep his name out there.

Next year-ish The Janson Directive produced by The Rock's production company will be his first, full on lead I do believe... but really, by that point I think he's got more than enough stuff behind him that succeed or fail he'll still be in demand more than likely. He's currently in China filming a movie tentatively called Project X with Jackie Chan.

You know the one role that I would have thought he could have killed it in was next years Shazam... Zach Levy looks like he's done a great job, but back when it was announced I thought his combination of being a giant of a man and naturally funny would have made him a great fit for the part... Oh well.

I think Cena continues to put in the odd mini-WWE run when and where he can; film insurance entanglements dependent.. What will probably go is stuff like him being on Total Bellas (he and Nikki got back together in June per People magazine)... maybe the odd cameo, but being off shooting on location or in other cities, plus the odd WWE match as part of that travelling sideshow will likely make his ability to commit to it harder (conversely his American Grit is usually shot over a week or two, so less of a commitment). The Rock had to go away to be successful... hell, it wasn't really until he started doing the Disney movies that he was able to fully shed the Rock moniker and become bankable... Cena's in a better spot because the Rock did it first so there's less of a gamble or stereotype on wrestlers being lunk heads.... Besides, he's got to stick around... How could the WWE possibly not give the guy the "record" breaking title reign to surpass Flair (I put record in quotes because it is likely that Flair had more reigns than the 16 he's "officially" credited with by the WWE.)


CamstunPWG187 - 7-24-2018 at 04:12 AM

Thanks for that, Charger. Also, anytime that trog posts news here, just copy, paste, then repost, that way we don’t have to directly respond to him ever again.

And if you’re part of the problem, fuck you.

Addressing Cena, well...All I can say is I’m so happy about the work he did in 2015 to put that final stamp on his career and say fuck you to the haters, including myself.

I wish him the best lf luck in Hollywood, too. No one deserves it more than he.

[Edited on 7-24-2018 by CamstunPWG187]


williamssl - 7-24-2018 at 05:26 AM

Rick was successfully able to block royberto from posting in this thread. It's only in this thread, but he did it!

if you see people quoting him or mentioning him....really at this point it's on them. They miss him and can't do without him. That and/or they have Tyler Durden issues. Best to just ignore those people too since they're perpetuating fiction and make-believe.


Count Zero - 7-24-2018 at 06:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl

if you see people quoting him or mentioning him....really at this point it's on them.
I would like to emphasize this point. So I have. Count Obvious, signing off.


Paddlefoot - 7-24-2018 at 07:07 AM

I agree to co-operate.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-24-2018 at 08:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Rick was successfully able to block royberto from posting in this thread. It's only in this thread, but he did it!


Wait, is this for real? Rick can do that? Crossing my fingers hard.


AmericanNightmare - 7-24-2018 at 12:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Rick was successfully able to block royberto from posting in this thread. It's only in this thread, but he did it!


I am delighted. This thread FTW.

Back to lurking now.


CCharger - 7-24-2018 at 12:59 PM

* In the rumored battle of wills between HHH (Reigns) and Kevin Dunn (Lashley) over who should face Lesnar at SummerSlam, HHH won out. The question now is who will win the title at the show? Make no mistake, Reigns is still viewed as the WWE's top guy for the foreseeable future by most of the top brass, and efforts are ceaseless to get the fans to agree.

* Becky Lynch is expected to beat Carmella at SummerSlam and take the title to Evolution.


First 9 - 7-24-2018 at 01:53 PM

Unless she's keeping it warm for Charlotte(even though she already got her rematch), Carmella has burned through the rest of women's division so I think the odds are good Becky actually wins.

Say Carmella wins, then what? The only ones left would be the IIconics or maybe Sonya Deville.


PB-13 - 7-24-2018 at 02:51 PM

Who are you to doubt Mandy Rose?


royberto - 7-24-2018 at 05:58 PM

*Mickie James wants a match with Trish Stratus at Evolution


CCharger - 7-24-2018 at 06:04 PM

quote:

*Mickie James wants a match with Trish Stratus at Evolution


Paddlefoot - 7-24-2018 at 06:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Rick was successfully able to block royberto from posting in this thread. It's only in this thread, but he did it!


It was beautiful while it lasted.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-24-2018 at 06:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:

*Mickie James wants a match with Trish Stratus at Evolution



Haha, that won’t happen. Why would she want it, l anyways? She had what was, at the time, the greatest women’s match in WWE history AT Wrestlemania. Then they had a lame match at Backlash no one remembered because someone dislocated their shoulder.


First 9 - 7-24-2018 at 07:00 PM

Not sure who you meant but it makes sense both would want it. It would give Mickie a big match and Trish might want it to wrestle a familiar opponent. It might not be any good but Trish vs any of the current women probably won't be a technical showcase, revisiting her history with Mickie could atleast provide a few fun character moments.


DKBroiler - 7-24-2018 at 09:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Not sure who you meant but it makes sense both would want it. It would give Mickie a big match and Trish might want it to wrestle a familiar opponent. It might not be any good but Trish vs any of the current women probably won't be a technical showcase, revisiting her history with Mickie could atleast provide a few fun character moments.


I like it when wrestlers can’t get over in-character decade old beefs. It could be fun ... but ... if we’re getting Trish and Lita out of mothballs let’s use them to put someone over that needs it. Naomi is a really good hand that’s often overlooked and might make for a great opponent to Lita while Charlotte over Trish kind of needs to happen.


williamssl - 7-24-2018 at 10:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Rick was successfully able to block royberto from posting in this thread. It's only in this thread, but he did it!


It was beautiful while it lasted.



via GIPHY


lz4005 - 7-25-2018 at 12:36 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler....decade old beefs....


Do NOT talk about Mickie that way.


Paddlefoot - 7-25-2018 at 02:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by lz4005
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler....decade old beefs....


Do NOT talk about Mickie that way.


Well played. That one deserves a free Arby's sammich.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-25-2018 at 03:28 AM

I was talking about Mickie. It’s silly that she’d want to drag Trish out of retirement when that original feud was as good as the women’s division has ever had (there still hasn’t been such weight in a modern-day women’s feud, yet). She had one of the best matches at Mania, too.

Make magic happen with others.


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 03:39 AM

Rumor: Matt Riddle may have signed with WWE after being given offers from both WWE and NJPW.

[Edited on 7-25-2018 by Matte]


GodEatGod - 7-25-2018 at 03:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by PB-13
Who are you to doubt Mandy Rose?


Honest truth? I think Mandy's got a ton of potential. She's gorgeous, she's built, and while she's not an elite worker by any stretch, she doesn't suck and has years to improve. She's got a good entrance and decent charisma.


williamssl - 7-25-2018 at 03:56 AM

Matte - not sure why you chose to PM a bunch of pOOsters here about this inquiry instead of simply googling it yourself and keeping us out of it, but here you go

[Edited on 7-25-2018 by williamssl]


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 04:07 AM

Seems legit. Solid advice. Thanks, Tex!


williamssl - 7-25-2018 at 04:22 AM

No worries. I know we have our differences, like your tranny porn thing and, well, that, but this bOOard is about community andhaving each other's back....even if we wouldn't turn our backs towards each other out of fear of surprise buttsecks.


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 04:40 AM

Speak for yourself, some of us like surprises!


janerd75 - 7-25-2018 at 07:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Matte - not sure why you chose to PM a bunch of pOOsters here about this inquiry instead of simply googling it yourself and keeping us out of it, but here you go




Rumour has it I've got some Googling to do. Lol j/k, like I don't already know how. Only one problem though...


Paddlefoot - 7-25-2018 at 01:23 PM

Set the Safe Search to Off and the Bing images for that particular question are tons more fun that what prudish old Google gives you.


CCharger - 7-25-2018 at 02:31 PM

* It is almost a certainty that Stephanie will wrestle in one of the top matches at Evolution - possibly against the RAW women's champion for the title.

* It is also being reported that the Bella Twins are also certain to be involved in some capacity and possibly "one or more" Hall of Famers

* Apparently there is heat between Vince McMahon and Chris Jericho. Jericho said recently he would not wrestle on American soil other than for the WWE out of respect for McMahon, however Vince was unhappy about Jericho wrestling Naito for the IC title, believing it diminished his own company's IC title. Vince expressed his displeasure to Jericho and Jericho was dismissive. Since then, Jericho has said he has changed his mind and is open to wrestling on American soil for NJPW or even Impact Wrestling. He has even floated the idea of appearing at All In.


DKBroiler - 7-25-2018 at 03:48 PM

With Jericho more than everyone else I always assume it’s a work. The heat between he and Vince could be real ... or it’s a long con where the Japan IC champ fights the US IC champ at Wrestlemania.


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 03:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* It is also being reported that the Bella Twins are also certain to be involved in some capacity and possibly "one or more" Hall of Famers

Haven’t Trish and Lita already been confirmed? If so, that’s your “one or more” Hall of Famers.


PB-13 - 7-25-2018 at 05:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by PB-13
Who are you to doubt Mandy Rose?


Honest truth? I think Mandy's got a ton of potential. She's gorgeous, she's built, and while she's not an elite worker by any stretch, she doesn't suck and has years to improve. She's got a good entrance and decent charisma.


I get a good laugh out of how Corey gives her the same "OH MY GOD SHE'S SO UNBELIEVABLY HOT" treatment as he gave Eva Marie, except Mandy's improved past that point.

[Edited on 7-25-2018 by PB-13]


CamstunPWG187 - 7-25-2018 at 05:47 PM

Well, if true, Vince spent more than a decade (2005-2016) devaluing his very own IC title.


Flash - 7-25-2018 at 07:07 PM

Meh... IF this whole hoopla with Jericho and Vince is real Vince probably did more damage by making a stink out of it knowing that Jericho has a podcast and likes to talk in general... I mean until this "news" came out I had never heard of this other NJPW IC title, or Naito for that matter...Not for nothing it's a Japanese title that might be big in Japan, but outside of a few indie fans in the USA who probably routinely shit on the WWE anyway this doesn't really move the meter.... and double not for nothing; The WWE does quite well when it tours to Japan, and if TNA was seen is "whatever, not in the same league as my WWE machine" then I would imagine he see's NJPW as even less of a threat.

Jericho's also 47, has been part time for the better part of the last decade, sure he's a first ballot HOF... probably even the headliner if there's any justice, but this isn't Angle showing up in TNA right away, or even Hogan going to WCW... I would bet more people care more about the news of Vince and Jericho fighting because it's gossip than comparing the NJPW IC belt and the WWE IC belt.


First 9 - 7-25-2018 at 08:10 PM

It's probably more negotiation tactics than real heat. Vince just might be annoyed that he can't bring Jericho back and give him wins without making another promotion's Champion look strong and you know Jericho isn't just coming back to do jobs.

Jericho's last hurrahs involved beating AJ at WM, making Kevin Owens(at the time RAW's 2nd top heel) tap out and even with shenanigans he swon a Title off their top guy in Roman Reigns. Imagine doing any of that while still being NJPW's IC Champion.


Paddlefoot - 7-25-2018 at 08:10 PM

Could be that it's all a work because they've also got Elias yapping away at Jericho on Twitter about being a part-timer, etc, etc.


First 9 - 7-25-2018 at 08:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Rumor: Matt Riddle may have signed with WWE after being given offers from both WWE and NJPW.

[Edited on 7-25-2018 by Matte]


BTW this might turn into a huge deal.As far as the hottest names in the independents go, Riddle has to be the most WWE-flavored guy that was working outside of WWE. Over six feet tall, UFC background and a fun talker(although his Bro act might not appeal to everybody).

He just might take NXT by storm. Also he's a pothead so that might cause issues.


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 09:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
He just might take NXT by storm. Also he's a pothead so that might cause issues.

Not sure how true it is, but some have said that weed might have lead to his preference of WWE over NJPW. Weed is a big-time no-no in Japan. In WWE, it's just a fine.


Paddlefoot - 7-25-2018 at 09:26 PM

Well, to be more accurate in WWE it's a fine and a de-push and a probable release after getting caught twice.


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 09:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Well, to be more accurate in WWE it's a fine and a de-push and a probable release after getting caught twice.

Is there a source on this? I'm assuming it happened to someone and that's how you're able to be so specific.


Paddlefoot - 7-25-2018 at 09:36 PM

RVD ring a bell? Evan Bourne? The only other one who ever got away with it was golden-boy Orton.


Matte - 7-25-2018 at 09:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
RVD ring a bell? Evan Bourne?

No, RVD's situation was different. He was arrested. That's an automatic suspension. He was never busted in a wellness test. And Evan Bourne's violations were back in 2011-2012, when getting busted for weed in a wellness test would earn you a suspension. The rules have been totally revised. Busted for weed or alcohol in a wellness test now is a $2500 fine and no suspension.


CCharger - 7-25-2018 at 09:45 PM

Jack Swagger was busted for pot posession and DUI in February 2013 and wrestled for the World Championship at Wrestlemania six weeks later, and then went on and feuded with ADR and Ziggler over that title for months after that.


Paddlefoot - 7-25-2018 at 11:27 PM

So it was all in the luck of the timing, and someone finally getting through to Vince that Reefer Madness really wasn't an actual medical documentary he should base his testing policy on? Good news if true.


First 9 - 7-25-2018 at 11:36 PM

Kendrick is the only guy who seemed to be flat out fucked just for smoking pot. The rumors were that management was annoyed that instead of seeing a fine as a reason to quit, he treated it as a pot tax.


bigfatgoalie - 7-26-2018 at 01:15 AM

On the subject of Jericho...he's doing everything to make sure his cruise makes money. WWE said no on having NXT perform on the cruise, so Jericho looked to ROH and Impact to supply wrestlers. So yeah, Jericho's been very pro-Impact and ROH lately. But it's very easy to see that as cruise related, with a side of Impact being run by a friend. Could Jericho work for either company? Sure. But from everything he has said, he is likely out of their price range.

And honestly , I really don't think Vince cares. I mean Vince had a) no issue with the Omega match b) he let Jericho wear an Alpha Club shirt on RAW.

Hell, I'd think it's more likely that Vince or Triple H has suggested to Jericho to pump WWE's tires to folks like Omega and the Young Bucks.


Flash - 7-26-2018 at 01:17 AM

It's also a bit of a new world... Yeah federally pot is still treated stupidly (and I say this as a non drug user), but 9 states have legalized it with another 13 decriminalizing it... In October it will be entirely legal up here in Canada... So the writing is probably on the wall... Well, in any rational country anyway... I'm guessing some minority hardliners will still whine think of the children and see legalizing something that most people smoke anyway as the end of the world which will in turn mean that federal draconian pot laws will continue to screw over plenty of people for the rest of their lives as they now have to check that criminal box on applications...

But I digress... I'm sure the WWE will just tell the guy to keep out of trouble with it, and get a doctors not or something... I mean really, Vince has covered up far worse than pot use amongst his talent en route to making his billion.


janerd75 - 7-26-2018 at 01:18 AM

I wonder where WWE stands with stuff like medical Mary Jane or CBD oil. Considering all the studies and evidence (anecdotal and otherwise) coming out that it helps with issues like chronic pain I figured they'd be all over approving it as opposed to any given wrassler having to tangle with opioid related painkillers.


Paddlefoot - 7-26-2018 at 01:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
I wonder where WWE stands with stuff like medical Mary Jane or CBD oil. Considering all the studies and evidence (anecdotal and otherwise) coming out that it helps with issues like chronic pain I figured they'd be all over approving it as opposed to any given wrassler having to tangle with opioid related painkillers.


Given the number of pain-killer related suicides and accidental deaths by overdosing by former wrestlers during the industry-wide epidemic a few years back they probably don't have a choice anymore except to close their eyes to medicinal pot use. Even an endless number of recreational RVD/Sabu caught-by-the-cops incidents wouldn't cause WWE even a fraction of the public relations troubles that another couple of oxy or fentanyl-caused deaths of former talent would.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-26-2018 at 08:42 AM

Yet, WWE is ran by a bunch of right-wing conservatives. The reason I brong up the political spectrum of it is that those types tend to treat marijuana as some sort of drug that’s in the same tier as steroids and opiates (yet, from my experience, seem to partake in it’s use whenever possible, while still voting for people who seek to demonize it.), so I’m never surprised to hear about them really punishing dudes for using it.

If it’s use is having a blind eye turned to it, hey, that’s cool. I support it.


Flash - 7-26-2018 at 10:11 PM

Some company opposition to it probably comes from the fact that Vince HATES smoking... which probably extends to marijuana as well. There's a story from way back when (I think Prichard told it) that Vince once paid a guy on a flight $500 to put out his cigarette.

It's funny when you look at what the federally scheduled class 1 drugs are in the USA as they all seem to have some kind of other political, racial, or attack on cultural reason behind them whereas you've got something like coke being schedule 2, which in the 80's was the rich white guy drug of choice.


CCharger - 7-26-2018 at 10:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash

It's funny when you look at what the federally scheduled class 1 drugs are in the USA as they all seem to have some kind of other political, racial, or attack on cultural reason behind them whereas you've got something like coke being schedule 2, which in the 80's was the rich white guy drug of choice.

That's not quite accurate. Cocaine is also a Schedule 1 drug along with weed, LSD, and heroine.

Schedule 2 drugs include most opioids like Fentanyl, and Oxycodone as well as Methamphetamine and the Barbiturates, opium, and morphine.

So the government think weed is a worse drug than Fentanyl which is the #1 killer for people under the age of 50 in this country.


ejspoon - 7-27-2018 at 12:41 AM

That's not quite accurate. Cocaine is also a Schedule 1 drug along with weed, LSD, and heroine.

Schedule 2 drugs include most opioids like Fentanyl, and Oxycodone as well as Methamphetamine and the Barbiturates, opium, and morphine.

So the government think weed is a worse drug than Fentanyl which is the #1 killer for people under the age of 50 in this country.




Cocaine is schedule II, serious risk of abuse, but does have a medicinal value, for treating eye burns as I recall.

Second to the reefer madness scare in craziness is that the Fed's push to demonize legitimate pain killers such as hydrocodone is what truly set off the heroin and synthetic fentanyl epidemic that is killing people. And our boys in DC decided that was worth it.


Flash - 7-27-2018 at 01:52 AM

I double checked this one before I posted it charger, because I'd heard it but hadn't looked into it for a fact so before I posted I found the list here on the DEA website:

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/ds.shtml

I appreciate you trying to set me straight though, but it really is one of those crazy hard to believe things where you can do more time for pot than you can for doing a few lines of coke off your favourite hookers tits... Or Goons ass if you're Matte, whatever floats your boat.


GodEatGod - 7-27-2018 at 02:20 AM

Not to mention that the penalties for crack tend to be significantly worse than the penalties for powder cocaine, because crack is a drug primarily used by people of color in the "inner cities" and powder cocaine tends to be more of a white collar white person party drug.


Count Zero - 7-27-2018 at 02:55 AM

If "Vince hates smoking" is true, does anybody else find it funny that the guy started a bodybuilding fed, when that whole subworld is purportedly using lots of chemicals so people can "look healthy"? Okay, smoking is a disgusting habit, but it's perfectly fine to stab your ass with needles full of things we can't even pronounce.

eta: And so I read the drug schedule thing linked to above, and.... Wow. It stuns me how many of the things with " low potential for abuse and low risk of dependence" are some of the MOST FREQUENTLY ABUSED PRESCRIPTION DRUGS. Ativan. Xanax. Valium.

Apparently marijuana is also more dangerous than ketamine (a thing they used/use to put animals "to sleep") and ANABOLIC STEROIDS. So, like, pot munchies are bad, but roid rage and falling into the K-hole are just part of the cost of doin' biz, man.

Jesus Hopped-Up Christ.

[Edited on 7-27-2018 by Count Zero]


Paddlefoot - 7-27-2018 at 03:25 AM

As per what GEG said powder cocaine is (or used to be) primarily a rich person's drug, and those folks tend to have better lawyers that get them off the hook whereas the ones caught with a dime-bag of horse or a handful of vials of cheap crack cocaine get the public defender at trial, someone who even if they're competent at their job are usually too overwhelmed with too many case to be able to spend too much time helping some poor schlub. Hence far too many of these kinds of people being sent off to prison on a fifteen-to-life stretch due to the "third strike out" and zero tolerance mentality that the local prosecutors/sheriffs/police chiefs have.

Wonder if anyone ever will do an un-authorized biography of, say, Ric Flair and Tully Blanchard just to make an accurate list of their cocaine arrests that got quashed just because guys with money like Jim Crockett or Bill Watts were looking out for them, or Randy Savage, Hogan, Piper, Snuka, and a lot of others if Vince McMahon hadn't been around to bail them out. The secret stories of 80's wrestlers would probably fill up as many volumes as an encyclopedia if so many of them weren't dead by now.


Paddlefoot - 7-27-2018 at 04:25 AM

* WWE allegedly made $40 to 50 millions dollars off of the GRR in Saudi Arabia

* fan-fav Toni Storm has been confirmed to participate in the upcoming second Mae Young Classic

* rumours earlier also said that there was a "possibility" that Madison Rayne would be offered a spot in the MYC 2

* a fan poll earlier today of former female WWE talent that people want to see return at the MYC 2 had AJ Lee with an overwhelming double-digit 59% lead over others like Beth Phoenix and Kelly Kelly

* when asked Gail Kim said she'd only come out of retirement for Impact, not for WWE's all-women PPV because she still has too many lingering bad memories of how badly booked she was during her two runs there

* TNA and ROH great Alex Shelley has retired at age 35



[Edited on 7/27/2018 by Paddlefoot]


the goon - 7-27-2018 at 05:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Or Goons ass if you're Matte, whatever floats your boat.


Hey, why'd I get dragged into this?


Flash - 7-27-2018 at 05:57 AM

I just assumed you were sleeping when he broke in and did drugs off your butt.... I think the fact that you are sleeping is part of the high for him.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-27-2018 at 08:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot

* TNA and ROH great Alex Shelley has retired at age 35



[Edited on 7/27/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Somewhere, probably in a dark alley, Folby is weeping.


Paddlefoot - 7-27-2018 at 08:29 AM

All I can remember about Folby is the fish-head avatar he used. That and he was kind of a grouch.

quote:
Originally posted by the goon
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Or Goons ass if you're Matte, whatever floats your boat.


Hey, why'd I get dragged into this?




[Edited on 7/27/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 7-27-2018 at 02:29 PM

* The Rock is looking to wrestle again soon - possibly at Wrestlemania 35. Expect him to make some WWE related appearances between now and then. WWE officials are interested in using The Rock to help Roman Reigns get over as a babyface.

* Speaking of Reigns, HHH apparently has convinced Vince to put the title back on him. Right now, Reigns is scheduled to beat Lesnar for the belt at SummerSlam.

* Randy Orton and Vince apparently had a "come to Jesus meeting" recently in which Randy expressed his anger and frustration at his recent booking. Randy pushed for his heel turn and will apparently have much greater creative control over his character including his promos.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-27-2018 at 02:51 PM

I’m eager to see if Randall can fly on his own when not needing to follow a script.


First 9 - 7-27-2018 at 02:53 PM

They should do the opposite, use Roman Reigns to turn The Rock heel and gives us the return of Hollywood Rock.


bigfatgoalie - 7-27-2018 at 07:05 PM

Hollywood Rock was great. So great that Elias is getting by doing a poor man’s version of it.


DKBroiler - 7-27-2018 at 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
They should do the opposite, use Roman Reigns to turn The Rock heel and gives us the return of Hollywood Rock.


The Rock vs Roman is a MONEY match.
The Rock with Roman is a terrible idea.


DKBroiler - 7-27-2018 at 07:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
They should do the opposite, use Roman Reigns to turn The Rock heel and gives us the return of Hollywood Rock.


Or ... just embrace what’s going to happen anyway and have face Rock lose to heel Roman further cementing his current place as the best heel of this generation ... which they won’t admit.

Listen, I love guys like KO. He’s amazing. But like it or not Roman has a ridiculous amount of star power that guys like KO do not, but that doesn’t make him a fan favorite. Donald fucking Trump has a ridiculous amount of star power but he’s a heel to a good 5/6ths of the country (only about 1/3rd of people vote). Just because someone has star power it does not mean they are a face. Maybe one day the WWE will figure this out.

If not it will smack them in the face when the most universally liked person in America in Dwayne Johnson is once again booed for being on Roman’s side.

[Edited on 7-27-2018 by DKBroiler]

[Edited on 7-27-2018 by DKBroiler]


First 9 - 7-27-2018 at 10:00 PM

Lesnar's dominance along with HHH's Reign of Terror in 2002-05 shows they are willing to build the show around the heel and don't need the no.1 guy to be a face all the time.

But that just seems t be a no-go for Reigns. He will not only be the top guy, but he'll doit as a face everything else be damned.


Flash - 7-28-2018 at 03:16 AM

He's probably still pulling in the huge bucks for the company amongst the kids, and as such will never turn.

We know what we have to do IWC... Next time you see a kid picking up a Roman Reigns action figure tell him Roman raped Santa and molested the elves.


Paddlefoot - 7-28-2018 at 03:46 AM

After ten years straight of face SuperCena there's no reason to believe they'd ever have tweeners like Austin & Rock or a majority-of-the-time pure heel like HHH ever be the face of the company again. If Roman ever turns heel it will be a Hogan-joins-Outsiders level of shock. It's not just that they couldn't book their way out of a wet paper bag these days, it's that the corporate sponsors and public relations gimmicks they get involved in (like the anti-bullying stuff) probably have a seat at the table to give their input when it comes to deciding what image they want their main star to project. And, going by what happened with Snickers and the Moolah allegations, the outside money isn't going to be too interested in associating with a product where the bad guy or the controversial guy is on top all of the time.

Roman's a face for life. The closest we'll see him to ever being genuine dick was his feud the last couple of days over Twitter with Tama Tonga and that's only because the yapping between the two of them got personal.

[Edited on 7/28/2018 by Paddlefoot]


PB-13 - 7-28-2018 at 03:51 AM

Or, I don't know, watch other wrestling and don't give your money to the company that keeps pushing the person you don't want to see.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-28-2018 at 06:03 AM

That made a shocking amount of sense, PB!


Paddlefoot - 7-28-2018 at 06:29 AM

What's the Mad Hatter Cam Ferguson doing in a Smackdown ring, Saxton?!?!?!?

I don't know, Graves, but I wouldn't want to be James Ellsworth right now!


CamstunPWG187 - 7-28-2018 at 08:59 AM

A month-long excursion to America for Smackdown would lead me right through the gates of Valhalla.

So Shiny. So Chrome.


CCharger - 7-28-2018 at 12:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PB-13
Or, I don't know, watch other wrestling and don't give your money to the company that keeps pushing the person you don't want to see.

POTY nominee


Fifth Horseman - 7-28-2018 at 06:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PB-13
Or, I don't know, watch other wrestling and don't give your money to the company that keeps pushing the person you don't want to see.


If only it was that easy. In my case, I feel like the roster - from an athletic perspective - has never been better. Turning off the channel altogether to send a message about Reigns (or whoever else), and in the process not watching Bryan, Owens, McIntyre, Cesaro, Rollins, Strowman, etc., is like cutting one's nose to spite one's face. And let's be honest - Vince is a stubborn SOB, he has no competition in sight, and he has our money now (thanks, Fox!), so my solution is changing the channel for 15 minutes at a time.


bigfatgoalie - 7-28-2018 at 06:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PB-13
Or, I don't know, watch other wrestling and don't give your money to the company that keeps pushing the person you don't want to see.


So...people should skip Moustache Mountain vs Undisputed Era? No Black vs Tomasso Ciampa?

People should skip SmackDown and miss out on Bryan vs Miz?

In 2018, not watching WWE means you are missing out on some great stuff.

Maybe stop watching RAW. I know I’missed most of last week, and that will likely stay the same through the Summer. But WWE is bigger than Roman.


DKBroiler - 7-28-2018 at 07:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by PB-13
Or, I don't know, watch other wrestling and don't give your money to the company that keeps pushing the person you don't want to see.


The thing is that at this point RoBOOOO is really one of the best parts of the show. I just fucking hate his face. The guy is amazing in many ways, yet, fuck RoBOOOOO and all that. There is no force on earth stronger than the reflexive need to boo RoBOOOO. So I tune in. I watch. And I boo.

God damn you Stockholm Syndrome!


nOOb - 7-28-2018 at 08:36 PM

WWE screwed him up. WWE can fix him by turning him heel for a bit, letting the boo's turn to cheers on their own, and them make him a face again. It's how they fixed the Rock, and he turned out pretty good. It's not even like Roman is as big a hit with the women and kids as Cena was. I don't watch Raw anymore but my job has me around a larger amount of wrestling fans than I've ever been around before. And it turns out the casuals don't care for the character of Roman Reigns either: they all like Braun Strowman.

It boggles my mind, really. Vince finally over-pushed a large, muscle guy with no previous hype and it worked. That should be your main guy. Roman should be his adversary. And because Roman has that "it" factor, when the time comes they could either switch them or put them on different shows and have two made guys with an endless supply of talented adversaries. That they don't go that route...it's a big part of the reason I only really watch around the Rumble now.


CCharger - 7-30-2018 at 02:54 PM

* Meltzer is reporting that ROH tried to book CM Punk for the MSG show, but Punk told them in no uncertain terms that he "has no interest in doing pro wrestling".

* Nakamura's contract expires January, 2019 and NJPW is interested in offering him a big money contract to return to Japan. Reportedly, Nakamura would be amenable to that as he has not been happy how he is being used in WWE.

* AJ Styles contract is up around that same time, and it is possible he ends up being the highest paid full time wrestler in the company. Imagine that...


GodEatGod - 7-30-2018 at 03:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Nakamura's contract expires January, 2019 and NJPW is interested in offering him a big money contract to return to Japan. Reportedly, Nakamura would be amenable to that as he has not been happy how he is being used in WWE.



That's probably the right play for Nakamura. If they were going to invest in him as a main even talent, this year was the chance and they didn't pull the trigger. He has limited time left and should definitely get one more glory run in NJPW before he hangs 'em up.


First 9 - 7-30-2018 at 04:01 PM

So a little theoretical situation spinned by Meltzer, if any other wrestling company got a fifth of WWE's tv deal with USA or especially the one with FOX they'd be set for years without taking into account merchsales, live attendance gate and ppv sales and would have enough money to really invest into marketing to grow and become a formidable player.

A reddit user said that TNA's old deal with Spike TV and ECW's with TNN were above a fifth of WWE's old deal with the USA Network(althought this could be bullshit since no numbers were given) so asusming it's true, it's not completely unrealistic to say a wrestling company could get a sweet $30 million deal if the cream of the crop is making $200 million.

Now my question is who the fuck is left to really hunt for a good tv deal? ROH is owned by Sinclair and they don't seem to show interest in shopping for a better deal, NJPW might not seem accesible enough, LU is owned by it's current network, is TNA/Impact the only player that could really capitalize?


anglefan85 - 7-30-2018 at 06:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Nakamura's contract expires January, 2019 and NJPW is interested in offering him a big money contract to return to Japan. Reportedly, Nakamura would be amenable to that as he has not been happy how he is being used in WWE.



That's probably the right play for Nakamura. If they were going to invest in him as a main even talent, this year was the chance and they didn't pull the trigger. He has limited time left and should definitely get one more glory run in NJPW before he hangs 'em up.


That is true, although I'm not sure how long his body could withstand a return to the land of Strong Style.


Paddlefoot - 7-30-2018 at 07:31 PM

* Madison Rayne has officially been added to the roster for the 2nd Mae Young Classic

* with the happy spirit of "gentlemen, start your boners" clearly in mind, Zelina Vega and Lana have been booked in a singles match against each other on this week's Smackdown


GodEatGod - 7-30-2018 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by anglefan85
That is true, although I'm not sure how long his body could withstand a return to the land of Strong Style.


I imagine he would be signed on more as a special attraction. I don't see them putting him back in working six man tags in the undercard. If they leave the Intercontinental title on Jericho for a while, though, that's gotta be a match they'd be looking at if Nakamura comes home.


CamstunPWG187 - 7-31-2018 at 05:27 AM

That’s probbly in nakamura’s best interest. How many Rumble winners fail as spectacularly as he did? Didn’t he get like 3-4 title matches?


First 9 - 7-31-2018 at 02:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
How many Rumble winners fail as spectacularly as he did? Didn’t he get like 3-4 title matches?


Well, there's Asuka.


Slade - 7-31-2018 at 04:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
That’s probbly in nakamura’s best interest. How many Rumble winners fail as spectacularly as he did? Didn’t he get like 3-4 title matches?


One might view the ability to parlay a Royal Rumble victory into 4 title matches as a major victory.


Flash - 7-31-2018 at 05:30 PM

I'd argue that there's few guys who've had the "rookie" year that Nakamura has ever had... I mean if you know his Japanese work and watch NXT then yeah he's been around forever, but there are probably more who do not...

*He debuts in April of 2017; by June he's in a high profile MITB match.

*August and October he's facing Jinder for the title.

*November he's in the high profile Survivor series match, and also get's a US title shot in December.

*January 2018 he wins the Royal Rumble

*Within 1 year of debuting on the main roster he's wrestling in a WrestleMania main event for the title as well as in the next two PPV's.

*On the June PPV he wins the US title

Honestly for a guy who is pretty much a big entrance and a lot of hype* that's an incredible year... I don't think he's been left off of a PPV, and what's more outside of maybe one or two PPV's generally been in the PPV theme match, or wrestling for a title. I think him not winning the title actually makes him more interesting... let him be nefarious with the US title for a bit, then he can win the WWE title.

Yeah he didn't win the WWE title during any of his bouts, but you'd be hard pressed to say that he wasn't the one who came out of each of those matches bigger for it.

*By hype I mean I know he's a Japanese legend, but unless you knew that he's by and large been someone that everyone has just told you that about him as opposed to having seen it... I think for a lot of us he was a weird, unique, cool entrance and then.... ? He's definitely developed further with the heel turn into being a more complete package and far more interesting.


First 9 - 7-31-2018 at 05:46 PM

Do rookie years mean the same thing now with how much a factor NTX plays into their development? Balor, Owens, and Joe also had big first years if you don't take into acocunt their NXT years.

It's not like Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle who were blank slates when called up to the main roster.

Which is not to say Nakamura hasn't had a good year. He's easily in the top 10(Da Big Dog,AJ, and Strowman are easy top 3) which for an older vet is not bad at all.


DKBroiler - 7-31-2018 at 08:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I'd argue that there's few guys who've had the "rookie" year that Nakamura has ever had... I mean if you know his Japanese work and watch NXT then yeah he's been around forever, but there are probably more who do not...

*He debuts in April of 2017; by June he's in a high profile MITB match.

*August and October he's facing Jinder for the title.

*November he's in the high profile Survivor series match, and also get's a US title shot in December.

*January 2018 he wins the Royal Rumble

*Within 1 year of debuting on the main roster he's wrestling in a WrestleMania main event for the title as well as in the next two PPV's.

*On the June PPV he wins the US title

Honestly for a guy who is pretty much a big entrance and a lot of hype* that's an incredible year... I don't think he's been left off of a PPV, and what's more outside of maybe one or two PPV's generally been in the PPV theme match, or wrestling for a title. I think him not winning the title actually makes him more interesting... let him be nefarious with the US title for a bit, then he can win the WWE title.

Yeah he didn't win the WWE title during any of his bouts, but you'd be hard pressed to say that he wasn't the one who came out of each of those matches bigger for it.

*By hype I mean I know he's a Japanese legend, but unless you knew that he's by and large been someone that everyone has just told you that about him as opposed to having seen it... I think for a lot of us he was a weird, unique, cool entrance and then.... ? He's definitely developed further with the heel turn into being a more complete package and far more interesting.



100% all of this.


DKBroiler - 7-31-2018 at 09:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Do rookie years mean the same thing now with how much a factor NTX plays into their development? Balor, Owens, and Joe also had big first years if you don't take into acocunt their NXT years.

It's not like Brock Lesnar or Kurt Angle who were blank slates when called up to the main roster.

Which is not to say Nakamura hasn't had a good year. He's easily in the top 10(Da Big Dog,AJ, and Strowman are easy top 3) which for an older vet is not bad at all.


I think it’s pretty clear that the WWE views SD and Raw at the major leagues and debuting on one of those is your rookie debut.


Flash - 7-31-2018 at 09:47 PM

I put rookie in quotes for a reason because I do think it's a bit of a grey area... NXT is probably part of the diet that the WWE hopes you consume but as I said there is probably more of the WWE's audience that doesn't watch it than does watch it... So yeah Nakamura has history there if you want to look for it, but year one in the bigs where he's being packaged and pushed for their wider audience has been a crazy sustained push.


bigfatgoalie - 7-31-2018 at 10:38 PM

I’d imagine Nakamura going back to Japan depends on if he hates living in the US. I’d imagine WWE is less taxing physically, with a higher upside as far as income goes.

And honestly, NJPW probably would benefit more from OG Bullet Club member Karl Anderson going back to Japan. Imagine Anderson siding with the Firing Squad? That’d be a spicy meatball.


Paddlefoot - 7-31-2018 at 11:01 PM

No can really say Nakamura got "screwed" by WWE after three high-profile years like that. Even losing to Jinder is not a black mark against him considering that WWE did that with Jinder because of their important activities in India at the time. Also, it has to be factored in that Nak kind of got a bit of a break too that others might not have considering that night on SD when he dropped Cena on his neck. Purely accidental of course and Cena didn't freak out and hold it against him, but in this age of hyper-safety no one would have been surprised if Nak had gotten de-pushed because of it.

I hope he stays for another couple of years because he's hit a good groove as a nut-punching heel, plus he's got some comedy chops as well (as seen especially in his interviews with Renee) that I'd like to see more of. Going home has it's appeal of course but then again the high level of money and exposure working for WWE is incredible so as far as decision factors go everything really does even out.


Paddlefoot - 8-1-2018 at 03:26 AM

* WWE could be in line for an unwanted #MeToo moment as old tweets from Cedric Alexander and Tye Dillinger surface with them joking about rape

http://www.ringsidenews.com/2018/07/31/disturbing-offensive-tweets-cedric-alexander-tye-dillinger-resurface/


GodEatGod - 8-1-2018 at 11:05 AM

I don't think Nakamura's screwed by any stretch of the imagination. I do think he came to WWE with the intent of being WWE champion at some point and not a midcard title holder (well, and money, of course). I genuinely think he'll want one more New Japan run before his body gives out, because however over he is here, there he's a legitimate all-timer top-tier star of the last two decades.

I won't be unhappy if he stays at all - I've really enjoyed this heel run especially and really want to give him a feud with Daniel Bryan (even if Bryan taking repeated knees to the head is a little cringe-inducing). I just think he might go for the glory of an NJPW return, where he'll be welcomed as a conquering hero.


CCharger - 8-1-2018 at 02:24 PM

* All signs are pointing to a Roman Reigns victory over Brock Lesnar at SummerSlam - but not a clean one. Rumors are that Vince wants to take the belt off Lesnar, but doesn't want to make Brock look weak by eating a clean pin. So expect some kind of fucked finish - possibly where Heyman botches helping Brock and accidentally assists Roman winning the title followed by Brock destroying Heyman.

* Talks are heating up between The Rock and WWE. Rock has stated that he wants to wrestle again at Wrestlemania and Vince is open to having him back possibly to either team with or face off against Roman Reigns.


First 9 - 8-1-2018 at 03:25 PM

As somebody who didn't enjoy Rock vs Cena, I'm not thrilled with the idea but I am curious to see how they go about it.

Rock had a lot easy material to work with Cena, his young fanbase, the colorful shirts, the old wigger days with Roman it's not quite as easy. Roman is not as outwardly goofy as Cena, he just sucks.


CCharger - 8-1-2018 at 03:45 PM

Also, Cena matched The Rock on mike. Rock would eviscerate Roman in a promo and Reigns just wouldn't be able to give it back.

[Edited on 8-1-2018 by CCharger]


williamssl - 8-1-2018 at 04:38 PM

Roman will call the Rock a little bitch and a part-timer a whole bunch of times. That's pretty much the extent of his trash-talking.

If you're in the camp that those are "ooooh sick burns" then Roman will do just fine.


CCharger - 8-1-2018 at 05:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
If you're in the camp that those are "ooooh sick burns" then Roman will do just fine.


G. Jonah Jameson - 8-1-2018 at 06:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Also, Cena matched The Rock on mike. Rock would eviscerate Roman in a promo and Reigns just wouldn't be able to give it back.

[Edited on 8-1-2018 by CCharger]


I like Roman Reigns, and I don't think he's anywhere near as bad on the mic as a lot of people seem to think, but he'd look like a fool if he had to go up against the Rock. There are very few people on the roster who could hold up against the Rock on the mic; WWE was careful to only put him against guys who could take the heat (John Cena and CM Punk) during his most recent run.

Given the entire active roster, I would probably only have the confidence to send the Rock against Kevin Owens, the Miz, Braun Strowman and maybe Elias. Daniel Bryan could probably hold his own, too, but the crowd would hate the Rock for ripping on him.


GodEatGod - 8-1-2018 at 06:51 PM

Elias is probably the idea opponent. They could do entertaining segments together and there would be no quesion that Elias is the one laying down (Because no way Rock comes back to job to anybody, probably ever again - Roman might be the only exception, being family, but even beating the Rock doesn't do anything for Roman at this point and it'll only make the people who hate him hate him more).


First 9 - 8-1-2018 at 07:17 PM

Roman did okay against Cena last year so I think he'd be fine against the same Rock we got in 2011-13. Rock no longer has the viciousness of his heyday where he punked out the nWo in their first night back, thrash HHH's ''I am the Game'' character-defining promo in the same night it happened, and obliterated Billy Gunn.


CCharger - 8-1-2018 at 08:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Roman did okay against Cena last year so I think he'd be fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOk7LkNsUvc

This made me cringe so hard I now have sciatica.


DevilSoprano - 8-1-2018 at 10:19 PM

Let's stop acting like Rock has cut a good promo on anyone besides Tyrese in the last decade.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-2-2018 at 03:20 AM

Shots fired


SpiNNeR72 - 8-2-2018 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Elias is probably the idea opponent. They could do entertaining segments together and there would be no quesion that Elias is the one laying down (Because no way Rock comes back to job to anybody, probably ever again - Roman might be the only exception, being family, but even beating the Rock doesn't do anything for Roman at this point and it'll only make the people who hate him hate him more).


Absolutely this.

Elias and Rock could be absolute gold with the safety of a basic match where Rock would be both safe and not over exposed (I am gonna be slated for this but Roman is way ahead of Rock in the ring at this points and does his best work in out and out hossfests Rock would struggle to handle)


Matte - 8-2-2018 at 06:27 PM

From the Meltz man:

"This is the last word anyone had heard regarding Hiromu Takahashi and it’s based on the belief from a few weeks ago. The New Japan doctors believe it will be nine to 12 months before he can return. The belief is that he suffered a broken neck, which sounds terrible and that’s why nobody has said anything public. The good news is that they had found no evidence of nerve damage so it’s all about the healing of the bone and making sure it can absorb the type of punishment in a New Japan ring. They were thinking he could get back to training and being athletic in six months, but were looking at the extra three to six months before letting him wrestle because of the type of style he works."



Probably one of the best possible outcomes for what happened.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-2-2018 at 08:54 PM

Good.

Keep him out of the ring with Dragon Lee. As fun as those matches are, Lee’s sort of dangerous.

Takahashi should also not agree to take such insane bumps anymore. His noggin must be almost mush by now.

[Edited on 8-2-2018 by CamstunPWG187]


Count Zero - 8-2-2018 at 11:52 PM

And Daryl's future is safe. The best outcome for all parties concerned.


Flash - 8-3-2018 at 12:40 AM

Big Cass... or rather "Big Cazz" as he will now be known, has showed his face and will be appearing at a house show in September.

Given that he's kept a low profile since his release it looks like he's trying to stay in the WWE's good graces by not trashing them or doing anything to draw negative attention to himself.


bigfatgoalie - 8-3-2018 at 02:34 AM

Glenn “Kane” Jacobs has been elected the mayor of Knox County, Tennnessee.

Is it now safe for Pete Rose to attend WrestleMania?


Accipiter - 8-3-2018 at 04:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Glenn “Kane” Jacobs has been elected the mayor of Knox County, Tennnessee.



He also stated that while his full-time job will be mayor of Knox County, he will still participate in WWE special attractions.


royberto - 8-3-2018 at 01:53 PM

His victory speech. Hilarious just for coming out to his theme music:


CCharger - 8-3-2018 at 02:21 PM

* While it seems as if a multi-million dollar, international company would not feel threatened by the likes of NJPW, ROH, MLW, Impact and a multitude of small, successful local indie feds, the truth apparently is that the WWE does. According to reports, Vince and other higher ups are feeling the heat from these smaller, growing brands, and steps are taking steps to undermine them. Last year's attempts to prevent indie shows in and around New Orleans last year and preventing ROH from running at MSG were two examples. Now, the WWE is using a new tactic to undercut the thriving indie scene by signing up all the top indie stars. Offers have been made to Omega, the Young Bucks, a multitude of UK indie stars, and Moose. Matt Riddle recently signed a big money, 3 year contract with the company. The idea is to poach top indie talent and use them on NXT and remove them as possible competition.

There's two ways to look at this. One, the WWE is simply operating like a business and acquiring as much talent as possible to boost its own product. Or two, the WWE is worried about competition and is using its enormous wealth to suffocate any potential threats before they materialize.

Either way, it appears that the WWE's war on smaller companies is a real thing.

[Edited on 8-3-2018 by CCharger]


anglefan85 - 8-3-2018 at 02:22 PM

I would love to see the reactions of people who don't know anything about his wrestling past and hearing him come out to a song that says ""The wonder of the world is gone, I know for sure..."


First 9 - 8-3-2018 at 02:59 PM

Not to say WWE isn't trying tounderming the other promotions but it makes perfect sense why they keep trying to block other big wrestling events from taking place during WM week.

Every single day of the week they have shit planned, the HOF, Takerover, autograph signings,conventions, etc. The other companies can't hope to compete against WM itself but they can fuck with meet and greets and other smaller events.


GodEatGod - 8-3-2018 at 03:03 PM

Hiring top indie talent isn't some sort of paranoid plot to stop those pesky independents - it's just how the business works. Guys try to do well in the minor leagues and, if they show themselves to be good enough, maybe they get called up to the Big Dance. I'm sure there are some indie guys who have no interest in WWE (Joey Ryan, for example, has disdained the idea, probably because his gimmick would not translate), but it's probably the goal for ninety percent of guys who become full time wrestlers.


DKBroiler - 8-3-2018 at 03:41 PM

Saying that WWE signing the best available talent is an assault on independent wrestling is like saying Major League Baseball is at war with the Dominican Winter League.

Talent is talent and money is money. WWE needs the most talent and has the most money. Simple as that.


DKBroiler - 8-3-2018 at 03:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Hiring top indie talent isn't some sort of paranoid plot to stop those pesky independents - it's just how the business works. Guys try to do well in the minor leagues and, if they show themselves to be good enough, maybe they get called up to the Big Dance. I'm sure there are some indie guys who have no interest in WWE (Joey Ryan, for example, has disdained the idea, probably because his gimmick would not translate), but it's probably the goal for ninety percent of guys who become full time wrestlers.


This. Have we been agreeing an abnormally large amount lately? Did we always agree this much? Somewhere is my CTE and pot rattled brain I kinda think we didn’t a bunch in the past but ... well ... huh ... hey look, it’s a squirrel!


Cherokee Jack - 8-3-2018 at 05:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Hiring top indie talent isn't some sort of paranoid plot to stop those pesky independents - it's just how the business works. Guys try to do well in the minor leagues and, if they show themselves to be good enough, maybe they get called up to the Big Dance. I'm sure there are some indie guys who have no interest in WWE (Joey Ryan, for example, has disdained the idea, probably because his gimmick would not translate), but it's probably the goal for ninety percent of guys who become full time wrestlers.
I agree with pretty much all of this, but in the case of some of the ROH guys, particularly the ones with Bullet Club affiliation, I’d be curious if and how much their “interest” (i.e. how much money they’re willing to throw at them) has increased in the last month or so.

We know that Vince is capable of being petty and spiteful, and there’s no way that he isn’t pissed off about ROH running MSG at Mania weekend, even if he won’t say it publicly. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out that they’ve significantly increased whatever offer they might have previously made to, say, the Bucks (doubled? tripled?) on the condition that they start by the Rumble weekend and thus aren’t available for MSG.


CCharger - 8-3-2018 at 05:38 PM

I don't disagree with the notion that this is "just business" and is not some conspiracy.

However, something to consider is that for some guys, money isn't everything. Some guys are willing to take less money for a lighter travel schedule and more creative control which are two things WWE won't budge on unless you are an established mega-star.

Guys like the Bullet Club have been pretty vocal with their negative perceptions of the WWE and might be perfectly happy making what they're making with ROH and NJPW. Not saying I know what motivates these guys particularly but it's something to consider: the WWE is not the dream destination for every pro wrestler.


GodEatGod - 8-3-2018 at 06:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Guys like the Bullet Club have been pretty vocal with their negative perceptions of the WWE and might be perfectly happy making what they're making with ROH and NJPW. Not saying I know what motivates these guys particularly but it's something to consider: the WWE is not the dream destination for every pro wrestler.


Right, but WWE is still going to make OFFERS to top talents, even if those talents don't want to work there for various reasons. The Bucks seem to be doing very well, but it's clear they and Omega are being courted by WWE to a certain degree. Whatever they want to do with their careers is up to them, but WWE trying to hire good wrestlers isn't exactly newsworthy or sinister, is what I'm saying.

One thing, and I've mentioned this before in other threads, that I think people underestimate about WWE is that, for all the pain of the schedule, a lot of other work that goes into being a pro wrestler goes away. Independent wrestlers manage and design their own merch, handle all their travel arrangements, negotiate their bookings (or pay an agent to do it for them), coordinate their own schedules. They take payments from many different vendors and have far more complicated taxes. Again, all little things, but whenever fans think someone should 'leave' WWE, I wonder if they think about that wrestler sitting at a merch table for an hour or two before a show trying to sell t-shirts. Nothing wrong with doing that, Cody Rhodes has busted his ass doing it, but he WANTED to prove himself in that way, that he could be his own man. A lot of guys...they just wanna wrestle, man.


First 9 - 8-3-2018 at 06:46 PM

As talented as the UK guys are WWE only went balls deep into the UK scene because they wanted to undermine WOS and when WOS turned into a dud WWE got cold feet about a UK Division leaving a lot of the guys just hanging around. That would be a recent example of WWE just trying to undermine another company and not just looking for talent.

So the precedent is set but when it comes to NJPW it's harder to tell because NJPW's top guys are the hottest stars outisde of WWE. So it makes all the sense in the world for WWE to go after them. Sticking to NJPW is just a bonus.


GodEatGod - 8-3-2018 at 10:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
As talented as the UK guys are WWE only went balls deep into the UK scene because they wanted to undermine WOS and when WOS turned into a dud WWE got cold feet about a UK Division leaving a lot of the guys just hanging around.


They literally just announced NXT UK a month ago and just had the first tapings.


First 9 - 8-3-2018 at 11:19 PM

After WOS was confirmed to stay, but when it's underwhelming first episodes seemed to have killed it WWE paused on their project and picked it up right up again when WOS was announced to get a ten episode season for this year.

You can track the news and updates of NXT UK and it constantly moves with the ebb and flows of WOS.


Flash - 8-3-2018 at 11:21 PM

I don't think the WWE really cares about the indies; their decisions are all about their own short, and long term gains. On one of the Something to Wrestle With's Pritchard basically said that McMahon took TNA going live on Monday nights in stride.. that basically they couldn't touch the WWE machine by that point. If TNA at that size only just comes onto Vince's radar I can't see even smaller entities causing Vince to take steps to sabotage them when the WWE is even bigger now than they were then.

You could also go back to a story that came out a couple of years ago where the WWE was signing a lot of top indie guys to some kind of image rights deal where they could merchandise them if need be (I think this was spawned by something to do with either Owens or Samoa Joe) but they were pretty much free to sign whatever deal they wanted otherwise... It's investing in their future, or at least helping to clear the way for future entanglements without necessarily hindering smaller feds.

Not saying the WWE hasn't ever, or won't ever squash something an indie fed is doing, but I think it's more about how that interferes with their business plan than them trying to stop the roll of another wrestling promotion out of pettiness or fear that they would be a threat to the WWE.


Paddlefoot - 8-4-2018 at 12:27 AM

I doubt they see any of the indies as a threat but as more of an annoyance, especially when they hitch their wagon to a huge WWE weekend event like WrestleMania to try to siphon off some of the fans cash for themselves. I also doubt that the WWE sub-events on those weekends, like the meet-and-greets, lose too many customers to some indy show that got arranged for the same day. If fans, especially ones with kids, want autographs badly enough from WWE talent or a chance to talk to them in person they're not going to skip out on that just to go see whatever it is that Impact is running across town in the very same hour. "OK, I feel great about my nine-year old daughter missing the chance to meet Sasha Banks because I took her instead to a show where ADR couldn't be bothered to show up because he was too stoned and Scott Steiner swore at the audience for ten minutes straight"? I doubt that scenario happens very often at all during a big WWE event weekend.

I think though that Vince probably feels genuinely insulted by MSG running a ROH show there, especially after WWE's made it clear during promotions that the Gardens are their "home" arena. Yeah, they might do far more stuff at the Barclays these days but that has far more to do with MSG jacking up the rental prices for events there than it was anything to do with WWE. If that business relationship is now over it doesn't look like the blame for it lies with WWE, just with MSG getting too greedy for everything it can milk out of whatever show is being held there these days.

[Edited on 8/4/2018 by Paddlefoot]


First 9 - 8-4-2018 at 01:22 AM

For years they've been making arrangements to avoid too many promotions leeching off WM week. Hell, as part of their deal for Phoenix to host WM26 they had the city actively prohibit other wrestling companies from hosting shows during the week of WM26.

The MSG is the first time they've been so brazen in trying to undermine another promotion but they have been doing it for years. Yes they don't few them as competition but they have taken steps to fuck with other people's business.


Count Zero - 8-4-2018 at 01:27 AM

Vince didn't get where he is by being "nice" to other promotions, and I'm guessing there's a certain amount of Old Habits Dying Hard coming into the picture...


Matte - 8-4-2018 at 01:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
You could also go back to a story that came out a couple of years ago where the WWE was signing a lot of top indie guys to some kind of image rights deal where they could merchandise them if need be (I think this was spawned by something to do with either Owens or Samoa Joe) but they were pretty much free to sign whatever deal they wanted otherwise...

Pretty sure that was with Samoa Joe. They signed him in a way that he was free to take bookings and wrestle elsewhere while simultaneously wrestling for NXT. I remember the talk was that they wanted to use him, but didn't see him as a long-term addition to their roster until his merch sales started coming in, at which point they renegotiated the contract and locked him up for themselves.

On the topic of trying to make WrestleMania weekend a WWE-only thing: I mean, it kind of makes sense. It really is their weekend. Other companies running big shows in the same area is just them taking advantage of the crowd that WWE was able to gather. And that's smart, and there's nothing wrong with it, but they do almost owe WWE a "thanks" for the opportunity.


Paddlefoot - 8-4-2018 at 02:45 AM

If any of the others had the same size, resources, and power that WWE did they'd do the exact same thing to bedevil their competition. One, it's really just another part of the overall background play-with-the-marks show where they try to twist things to their advantage, e.g. constant deliberate rumour-making that CM Punk will show up at All In because if he does, even after saying no a thousand times he's been asked, it'll be a beyond-huge moment. There isn't a single one of them that wouldn't love to have something like that happen, or have a "DX invades WCW" or "Bischoff invites McMahon to show up for a fistfight" moment to exploit. And, two, even more importantly, they're all as much a bunch of damn carnies as Vince is and carnies by nature do anything they can to fuck industry rivals over. It's in the blood of anyone in the business and they all know it. It's like when someone brings up the territory days and makes it seem all those old guys that Vince took out of the business were a bunch of innocent victims. They weren't, they were all the same as he was/is and the only difference between them is that Vince was faster on his feet with the changing times and was much better at scheming than they were.

It is what it is. These types of conversations are essentially circular and pointless because trying to choose which wrestling promoter is less deplorable than the others is as much of a waste of time as trying to figure which banker is the worst thieving cunt. Correct answer - all of them are.

[Edited on 8/4/2018 by Paddlefoot]


First 9 - 8-4-2018 at 03:21 AM

My point wasn't about the evil WWE trying to hold down the virtuous underdogs, but arguing that despite the giant difference between WWE and other wrestling companies,they aren't below WWE's notice with dispays over the years where WWE tries to undermine or spite them.

So whenever WWE goes a hiring spree and some promotion gets their main event scene decimated, more often than not it'll just be business but CCharger isn't off base thinking that smetimes they might do it to fuck somebody else over.


Flash - 8-4-2018 at 04:17 AM

I think it's more these companies put themselves in the WWE's crosshairs from time to time (riding WWE coat tails during WWE week, going into MSG.. ect)... It's probably like people with ants... sometimes it gets into the food, or is a bother and you step on it, most of the time it's not worth your while.

Not for nothing, ROH going into MSG- the WWE's historical and celebrated home away from home is a bit of a dick move... Yeah it makes them to a very select few look like a slightly bigger deal, but it is a bit of an affront to go into MSG and put on a show. I know some will say the arena's fair game if the WWE isn't there, but it is a bit like pissing on someone else's sacred ground or at least knocking down the menorahs and throwing up a few crucifix's.


PB-13 - 8-5-2018 at 01:54 AM

Technically it's how the business SHOULD work: The top guys of the indies/territories move on to bigger and better things, the worthy contenders step up to take the spots left behind.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-5-2018 at 02:22 AM

Hate to say it, but yeah, The more WWE pilfers the Indies, the more of a chance there will be for guys to fill their spots, and thus, fill the WWE with more and more talent going into the future.

As an indy wrestler, it saddens me how little guys actually get paid. Some guys deserve to be making tons of money. Riddle is one of them.

One thing I don’t particularly agree with is how aggressive WWE is about trying to fuck the little guy. They’re never going anywhere.


DKBroiler - 8-6-2018 at 03:02 PM

For those of you who aren’t morons like me and waste $30 a year to play Madden a few days early you might not know about this little nugget of info ... Jonathan fucking Coachman is all over Madden this year. He does the pre, post and halftime show. Even if you time it perfectly it’s essentially impossible not to hear “THIS IS THE COACH WELCOMING YOU TO MADDEN 19!”

In all seriousness he actually does a much better job in Madden than on RAM but seriously ... enough with this over exposed fake ass Stu Scott. My ears are bleeding.

My word of the day is everywhere because Coach is fucking everywhere ...


CCharger - 8-6-2018 at 03:48 PM

* Matt Hardy announced on Twitter that doctors have told him that his lower back and pelvis are fusing together. Recently, he sent out a cryptic tweet suggesting he was contemplating retirement. Taken together, it would appear that the end of his career is not far away.


GodEatGod - 8-6-2018 at 05:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Matt Hardy announced on Twitter that doctors have told him that his lower back and pelvis are fusing together. Recently, he sent out a cryptic tweet suggesting he was contemplating retirement. Taken together, it would appear that the end of his career is not far away.


This can't be a surprise to anyone who's seen Matt walk in the last year. Seriously, he looks straight-up fragile.


DKBroiler - 8-6-2018 at 05:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Matt Hardy announced on Twitter that doctors have told him that his lower back and pelvis are fusing together. Recently, he sent out a cryptic tweet suggesting he was contemplating retirement. Taken together, it would appear that the end of his career is not far away.


This can't be a surprise to anyone who's seen Matt walk in the last year. Seriously, he looks straight-up fragile.


On a podcast a month or two ago - I forget which - Hardy referenced his “backwards hips” which is apparently an inside joke that has been running for sometime.


Matte - 8-6-2018 at 05:45 PM

Edge referenced Matt's "Jimmy legs" on a Hardy Boyz DVD back in 2001, so that's nothing new. The back and pelvis fusing might be a more recent revelation.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-6-2018 at 05:46 PM

His hip structure is one that almost obfuscates someone. They are quite large and, according to him, not in charge.

I just wanted a chance to use my new word of the day.


royberto - 8-6-2018 at 07:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
On the topic of trying to make WrestleMania weekend a WWE-only thing: I mean, it kind of makes sense. It really is their weekend. Other companies running big shows in the same area is just them taking advantage of the crowd that WWE was able to gather. And that's smart, and there's nothing wrong with it, but they do almost owe WWE a "thanks" for the opportunity.
Which is why it is humorous listening to ROH marks whine about it because they wouldn't be going to MSG in he first place if it wasn't for WWE having Wrestlemania in the city to begin with. Like it is OK for ROH and others to leech off of WWE, but they get all sanctimononious if WWE tries to protect it's weekend.


TownOfDalem - 8-6-2018 at 08:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
On the topic of trying to make WrestleMania weekend a WWE-only thing: I mean, it kind of makes sense. It really is their weekend. Other companies running big shows in the same area is just them taking advantage of the crowd that WWE was able to gather. And that's smart, and there's nothing wrong with it, but they do almost owe WWE a "thanks" for the opportunity.


I get that. but on the other hand, the mass amount of indy stuff happening is part of what makes it such a cool weekend. As someone who went to the past two Manias, part of the draw was getting to check out a few of the non-WWE events.

That being said, if I go next year I'd probably choose NXT over RoH/NPJW if they are at the same time.


CCharger - 8-7-2018 at 03:44 PM

* Filed under the "Holy Fuck It's So Crazy, I Almost Believe It" category, rumors are swirling that Hulk Hogan, Kevin Nash, and Scott Hall are gearing up for a WWE return in a reboot of the NWO. The three filmed some vignettes at Hogan's Tampa-area surf shop and Hulk's been teasing a "big announcement" for October 27th.

* Also, Dean Ambrose is reportedly all better and will appear at SummerSlam to help Seth Rollins even the odds against Ziggler and McIntyre.


First 9 - 8-7-2018 at 03:57 PM

There wouldn't be much to lose if they tried to reboot it with younger guys. There's already been plenty of forgettable and worthless incarnations of the nWo so it's not a sacred cow they'd be killing if it doesn't work out.


GodEatGod - 8-7-2018 at 04:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
There wouldn't be much to lose if they tried to reboot it with younger guys. There's already been plenty of forgettable and worthless incarnations of the nWo so it's not a sacred cow they'd be killing if it doesn't work out.


Much as I have no use for Hogan - yeah, that's fine. Virgil was in the nWo. Horace was in the nWo. Stevie Ray was in the nWo. No sacred cows here. And, if I'm going to have to deal with Hogan on TV, I personally prefer Hollywood Hogan.


Paddlefoot - 8-7-2018 at 08:26 PM

* Sami Zayn underwent his second rotator cuff surgery today; he's still not expected to return to WWE until sometime in 2019

* Dave Bautista has been very vocal and active in defense over the last couple of weeks of director James Gunn, who was fired from Disney/Marvel's Guardians of the Galaxy for a series of decade-old shock-joke tweets about pedophilia; Batista's basically been calling Disney a bunch of cowards for doing this, saying they caved into a pair of cyber-Nazis (Mike Cernovich & Jack Posobiec - both are conspiracy-pushing MAGAs that were involved in the Pizzagate hoax that nearly got a restaurant full of innocent people gunned down by a right-wing nutcase; Cernovich is also a rape-apologist, basically denying it multiple times that rape even exists) that were targeting Gunn over his anti-Trump political comments; Batista's also gone as far in the last couple of days of threatening to quit the GotG franchise altogether if they don't, as a minimum, use Gunn's finished script for the third movie in the franchise


DKBroiler - 8-7-2018 at 09:09 PM

Good on Bautista ... errr ... Batista ... errr ... Drax. I’m now 100% certain that Bats next run will be the best of his career. He can act like a dick but he’ll finally be almost universally embraced.

As for Hogan ... a heel run where he, Nash and Hall all essentially play tri-managers/puppet masters has some potential. The fact that they CANT wrestle makes it much more interesting.

Could you imagine if the new NWO included Cena, Batista and The Rock? A massive band of part timers rotating in and out is certainly different. Let’s throw Brock and Jericho in there for shits and giggles and maybe dust off The Big Show.

Let’s go full retard.


Flash - 8-7-2018 at 10:29 PM

The NWO stuff will probably turn out to be something for the network I'm guessing... Like DX, ECW, and the Monday night wars, the NWO seems to be one of those evergreen things that the WWE likes to revisit for a sales bump of some kind every decade or so and I don't think we've gotten an NWO release in a while.

As far as recasting the NWO in this day and age I think it's an idea that has probably come and gone... Yeah Hogan turning heel was an iconic moment, but the whole invasion/take over thing was something that worked because of the very real atmosphere that existed in the wrestling landscape at the time (the "war", talent raids, a kind of new kayfabe emerging...) . While there are other reasons why the whole WWE Invasion bit didn't work, one of the chief ones is that the suspension of disbelief was probably too hard because WCW legitimately gone by this point, to say nothing of it's last few years having grinded down the goodwill WCW once enjoyed.

I mean would anyone care if they tried to do a what... TNA invasion? NJPW? ROH? Maybe the only entity where they could pull off something like the idea of the WWE being invaded or taken over from within would be if a whole crop of UFC fighters (and really... they are probably suffering from a lack of stars right now anyway) were all secretly training to be wrestlers, and even then we've seen via stuff like Brawl For All what happens when you try to play with that line between "real WWE" and "real".

I'd just as soon they leave the NWO to nostalgia acts at this point... the HHH/Sting match was a nice end note to their live in ring stuff.

Now a NXT Nexus type internal uprising or a group of disenfranchised talent pulling a Pillman/Punk type promo with the odd Hercules-Sid in ring type spot might be a cool way to blur the lines and do something really cool.


williamssl - 8-7-2018 at 11:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Yeah Hogan turning heel was an iconic moment


I for one would love it if someone with magic bOOard powers did something like has been done with I cannot spell 'feud' (when you misspell feud) and fanboys (or at least I thought there was something that when typed resulted in a bolded sk8rbois coming back in your post) with "iconic".

This has become one of the more overused words on the bOOard, in general and especially in the showdown forums where people call out something's 'iconic' status as their reason for voting for it.

Even if it's as stupid as IIconic... something.


janerd75 - 8-7-2018 at 11:36 PM

Well, since it's OO and Hogan related can it at least be IcOOnic?


Paddlefoot - 8-8-2018 at 03:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
Well, since it's OO and Hogan related can it at least be IcOOnic?





Flash - 8-8-2018 at 04:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Yeah Hogan turning heel was an iconic moment


I for one would love it if someone with magic bOOard powers did something like has been done with I cannot spell 'feud' (when you misspell feud) and fanboys (or at least I thought there was something that when typed resulted in a bolded sk8rbois coming back in your post) with "iconic".

This has become one of the more overused words on the bOOard, in general and especially in the showdown forums where people call out something's 'iconic' status as their reason for voting for it.

Even if it's as stupid as IIconic... something.


Not following you this time...

The word looks spelled alright to me, and well yeah... calling stuff "iconic" can get bandied about a bit too much, but to my recollection I've only used that term twice in the last bit (although my iconic posts can be long winded rambling messes sometimes, so God only knows what I write half the time) and that was in regards to Hogan's heel turn, and Austin's theme music... Both of which I think are kind of at that "iconic" level... in terms of being celebrated, easily recognizable benchmarks or signatures in wrestling history.

I mean I wouldn't call say X-pac beating D'Lo Brown for the European title back in 98 "iconic", but I think many things related to Austin and Hogan would qualify.

ETA: Okay, it's late... probably not aimed at me; I just did a search and I've used the word "Iconic" 12 times since 2010.

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by Flash]


williamssl - 8-8-2018 at 05:16 AM

It's not aimed directly at you - your post was the trigger or tipping point to something I've observed as a broader trend that I too have been guilty of.

Just do the bOOard magic, people, so we can have fun with it already.


DKBroiler - 8-8-2018 at 06:27 AM

My taint is iconic.


Flash - 8-8-2018 at 06:43 AM

Jeez, we know 'Broiler, it's all Janerd ever talks about....


DKBroiler - 8-8-2018 at 01:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Jeez, we know 'Broiler, it's all Janerd ever talks about....


Rumor confirmed!


CCharger - 8-8-2018 at 02:14 PM

I've used the word "iconic" exactly 20 times since 2010 and God willing, I'll use it 20 times more before the end of 2018.


Fifth Horseman - 8-8-2018 at 04:21 PM

Looks like the Cowboy has one more run left in him. Guy is looking as lean as ever.

https://www.instagram.com/jamesstormbrand/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_loading_state_control


CCharger - 8-8-2018 at 04:30 PM

* SummerSlam is reportedly getting multiple re-writes as Vince was not happy with the previous drafts of the show. One finish that could be changed is the Brock/Roman match. Roman had been penciled in to win, but Vince and Brock had a long meeting prior to RAW this week and hashed things out. Supposedly, Vince now wants Brock to walk into his fight with Cormier with the WWE title.

* Hulk Hogan was backstage at Smackdown this past weekend fueling whispers that he will be returning to the WWE. Reportedly, Vince wants Hogan back for the switch to FOX so that it will attracted lapsed wrestling fans to the product again.

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by CCharger]


bigfatgoalie - 8-8-2018 at 04:30 PM

Add him to Raw, turn Roode heel, form a tag team...solve some issues.


Count Zero - 8-8-2018 at 07:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Hulk Hogan was backstage at Smackdown this past weekend fueling whispers that he will be returning to the WWE. Reportedly, Vince wants Hogan back for the switch to FOX so that it will attracted lapsed wrestling fans to the product again.

[Edited on 8-8-2018 by CCharger]
Hey! It looks like they really DO care about the 45-60 demographic after all! (...Really? That's the best joke I gots? Ugh. I need a funny bone transplant. )


Paddlefoot - 8-8-2018 at 07:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I've used the word "iconic" exactly 20 times since 2010 and God willing, I'll use it 20 times more before the end of 2018.




That's kind of epic, dawg.


Planet Starbucks - 8-8-2018 at 10:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* SummerSlam is reportedly getting multiple re-writes as Vince was not happy with the previous drafts of the show. One finish that could be changed is the Brock/Roman match. Roman had been penciled in to win, but Vince and Brock had a long meeting prior to RAW this week and hashed things out. Supposedly, Vince now wants Brock to walk into his fight with Cormier with the WWE title.




I know there are a fair number of Brock haters here at OO these days, but I would laugh my ass off if Roman was politicked out of his long awaited big win for a third time just so Bork can wear that red piece of shit belt in the UFC.


CheMateo - 8-9-2018 at 12:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Supposedly, Vince now wants Brock to walk into his fight with Cormier with the WWE title.


See this is what I was expecting the whole time. I was surprised when all this chatter was coming out about Vince finally giving the greenlight to a Rome title win over Brock when Brock has his impending and hyped UFC return.

quote:
I know there are a fair number of Brock haters here at OO these days, but I would laugh my ass off if Roman was politicked out of his long awaited big win for a third time just so Bork can wear that red piece of shit belt in the UFC.




#Metoo

I would laugh hysterically at all the Bork haters across the webs and social media crying and complaining. I look forward to it.


nOOb - 8-9-2018 at 12:27 AM

My question is if Brock wins the UFC Title, will he actually defend it more than he's defended the Universal Title?


CheMateo - 8-9-2018 at 12:34 AM

As much as I would relish the scene of Brock being dual UFC & WWE Champions, I believe Brock will be doing the j-o-b to Cormier.


Matte - 8-9-2018 at 01:07 AM

Either way Vince goes with the Universal title match is kind of a leap of faith. The options are:


Brock retains the Universal title and wins the UFC title. Huge moment for everybody involved. Cross-brand champion. Further cross-promotion. Brock's legend becomes that much more storied.

Brock retains the Universal title, but loses the UFC title match. Possibly bad for WWE, ego-wise. Their top champion failed in his UFC comeback. Further proves that pro wrestlers can't hang with pro fighters.

Brock loses the Universal title, but wins the UFC title. Might be seen as a missed opportunity for WWE. Potential cross-promotion coverage will now not happen. Could be seen as Brock giving up WWE in favor of UFC.

Brock loses the Universal title and loses the UFC title match. Doesn't really hurt anybody but Brock. Might be Brock's biggest fall from grace, failing to capture/secure two separate sports championships.


the goon - 8-9-2018 at 01:10 AM

If the plan is to keep the belt on Brock, I just don't see how you can have Roman come up short yet again. Like, he failed at WrestleMania, he failed again in screwy fashion at TGRR, so what happens if he fails yet again at SummerSlam? Does he come out on RAW the next night and say "welp, I'm 0-4 lifetime in taking the belt off of Brock everybody...I fucking suck!"

Of course, you could always have Braun cash in his MITB shot and win the belt, and I'd be fine with that, but I just feel like they really can't do Roman losing to Brock straight up at SummerSlam.

Also, I don't follow the UFC enough to know who's favored in Brock/Cormier, but that could also blow up in Vince's face if Brock is still Universal champion and loses the fight, because you know he'd hate to have his champion look inferior by losing to the UFC's champion.

EDIT: Looks like Matte and I were posting at the same time, but were on the same wavelength regarding it potentially looking bad for the WWE if Brock were Universal champion but lost against the UFC champion.

[Edited on 8-9-2018 by the goon]


First 9 - 8-9-2018 at 01:18 AM

Reigns failed at WM31, he failed at last year's SS(where he was the one who got pinned), got his ass kicked at this year's WM, and even their attempt at keeping him strong by having a screwy finish in the Cage match was fucked when the replay showed Reigns feet touching the floor first.


The Big Dog is already a bitch but losing to Lesnar again is reaching the point of no return.


CheMateo - 8-9-2018 at 01:42 AM

Yeah in certain eyes it can weaken Brock if he retains the WWE title but loses his UFC shot. But Vince does not seem to be concerned with jobs in UFC. Brock had a unceremonious end to his UFC stint prior to his one off UFC return against Hunt. Lesnar lost in the first round due to TKO to Velasquez and Overeem.

Despite those loses, Vince still brought Brock in. Brock came in strong initially until he lost to Cena. They later on rehabbed the character to be the monster that he is now. Just the fact that Brock participates in the UFC gives Vince a credibility boner--win, lose, or draw. Plus, you all know Vince loves those outside sports and mainstream coverage that comes with it.

If anything, the loss can sort of soften the shoot monster Brock is supposed to be. That yes, Brock is dangerous. Brock is tough. But Brock is no longer unstoppable. Maybe a loss would finally force WWE to book Brock differently. I for one want to see Brock actually work. All these new wiener fans never saw Brock vs Benoit or Angle. They have no idea Brock had a great arsenal.


Flash - 8-9-2018 at 02:26 AM

Even if Brock loses it won't matter much; I mean really the Universal title started out as something, but has largely devolved into just something for Brock to lug around with him and Reigns to bitch about... If/When the WWE folds the brand split back again at some point in the unforeseen future the Universal title, not the WWE title, will be the one that gets decommissioned.


Paddlefoot - 8-9-2018 at 03:20 AM

The fan reaction to the Universal title the night it was unveiled didn't help much either, not with all the booing and Mick Foley standing next to it with that "what do I do now?" look on his face. Kevin Owens was the only champ that was really allowed to have any fun with it. Both Goldberg and Lesnar overshadowed the title itself with the "ultimate" status they were given by booking, with the belt becoming a nice-but-sorta-irrelevant accessory to their innate dominance. And that's the problem because it's supposed to be a marker of "I'll live or die for this title, and do anything I must to win/retain it". This status of "meh" it's had with the Lesnar regime has effectively killed what a title is supposed to represent and diminished the heights/depths a wrestler will go to in order to get it for themselves.


bigfatgoalie - 8-9-2018 at 04:22 AM

Roman walking out of SummerSlam without the belt only works one way...him going heel. And I can't see them doing that.

Part of me is worried that regardless if Roman wins or loses, Vince hates the crowd shitting on the match, and tries to over correct with Bruan cashing in on RAW (Lesnar is advertised for the show). Braun winning would pop the crowd...but Roman would be pointless going forward.

All of this could have been avoided by having ANYONE else face Brock. Roman vs Drew would have been a fine undercard match. But the WWE chose Roman, and I think they have to put the strap on him...and let him run with it. Owens would be a believable heel you can feed Roman. You could even do Dolph for a month. Or Corbin.

But going with Brock hurts RAW and severely damages one of your top guys.


williamssl - 8-9-2018 at 04:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
But going with Brock hurts RAW and severely damages one of your top guys.


Good thing there's no precedent for that


bigfatgoalie - 8-9-2018 at 04:40 AM

Oh I know...and again, the WWE could have avoided this. If sticking with Brock was the goal, they could have gone with Seth vs Brock. Drew vs Brock. Finn. Corbin. They've booked themselves in a hole for no good reason.


Flash - 8-9-2018 at 06:51 AM

I actually think Roman not being able to beat Brock is a great story as it gives whoever does beat him that sticking point he can needle Reigns with for doing what he couldn't, or that Roman couldn't get the job done... The outcome is that you've got Brock back to being his part time inconsequential attraction self less the title, a bigger star in whomever beat Brock, and a pretty good ready made feud between that guy and Roman that they can keep going back to for a while.

I don't think what they've done with Reigns thus far has hurt him; he's teflon enough and dominates the roster when and where it's needed that having this hanging over his head could actually fuel some interesting character stuff.

I think you COULD still tell this story assuming Reigns loses at Summer Slam as I don't think they've positioned themselves very well to tell the story of someone else going over Brock.... Maybe punt it down the line to WrestleMania.

The thing is I think people are just tired of this... Brock wins and Roman gets to stand around twiddling his thumbs while your next few big stars kind of stand around with even less to do (or operating under the ceiling that there is no title) especially those holding the MITB case. If Reigns wins... well then it's the culmination of nothing really; Brock leaves, Reigns holds the title and gloats... and then drops it down the line and none of this meant anything outside of the moment.

I guess what gets me about this whole Brock situation outside of the fact that it's so apparent that the WWE is working so hard to have their cake and eat it too is that there are so many better options on the table than Brock versus Reigns at Summer slam (the course is set now)... the difference between telling a story, and telling a great story with consequences and stuff that pushes their characters along to new paths.

But instead... Reigns wins, yawn. Brock wins... yawn.


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 03:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
My question is if Brock wins the UFC Title, will he actually defend it more than he's defended the Universal Title?


I think there is a better chance of Cormier winning the Universal Title in 2019 than Brock winning the UFC Title. Brock has almost no chance. Cormier does everything better than Brock with the same skill set. Brock’s only advantage is his size and Cormier just dispatched the most decorated UFC HW Champ of all time like he was just some tomato can.

Learn these names as they will be main eventing Wrestlmanias soonee rather than later ... Cain Velasquez, Daniel Cormier, Connor McGregor and - hopefully - the best fighter on Earth with seriously questionable character issues - Jon Jones.


salmonjunkie - 8-9-2018 at 04:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Learn these names as they will be main eventing Wrestlmanias soonee rather than later ... Cain Velasquez, Daniel Cormier, Connor McGregor and - hopefully - the best fighter on Earth with seriously questionable character issues - Jon Jones.


I can't wait to see Jon Jones and Connor McGregor tear it up on 205 Live.


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 04:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by the goon

Also, I don't follow the UFC enough to know who's favored in Brock/Cormier, but that could also blow up in Vince's face if Brock is still Universal champion and loses the fight, because you know he'd hate to have his champion look inferior by losing to the UFC's champion.
[Edited on 8-9-2018 by the goon]


Scouting Report

Daniel Cormier is highly likely the second baddest man on Earth behind only Jon Jones. Jon Jones is a cheater, a general scoundrel, and is currently suspended but has put a beating on Cormier in the past. Jones is the closest thing to a real life Dalsim from Street Fighter I’ve ever seen with a reach of roughly 57 feet. We have to set Jones aside for now.

Cormier is more skilled than anyone else, especially for a heavyweight. The problem for Brock is that all of the things he does well that separate him from a normal big lug, are things that Cormier does then SIGNIFICANTLY better. Cormier is a much better wrestler for example. Also the things Brock does not do well, Cormier still does well. Aside from size, Cormier is better at literally EVERYTHING in a UFC ring than Brock.

Personally until a few years ago I thought Cormier was boring and a bit overrated. Then he kept winning. He has a style that basically smothers opponents. If it goes to the mat Brock is fucked.

So that leaves Brock in a position where he will likely have to box Cormier to win, and that’s clearly not Brock’s strongsuit. His only real shot is to land a devastating punch at the exact right time, but good luck with that on Cormier’s granite jaw.

I expect it to go 2 rounds tops. Brock will try to end it in 30 seconds. More than likely Cormier will end it in a boringish way after a few minutes with Brock tapping or being TKO’d.

With all of that said ... look back at what I said in my post above and my months of posts about how Rousey is going to be an amazing pro wrestler (nailed it!). While there will always be a steady stream of Indy guys like Adam Cole or Seth Rollins that break into the WWE, the next generation of stars in WWE will come in part from the UFC of today. Some will stink and some will be amazing.

McGregor will be WWE Champion as a heel for sure one day. Cormier as a face. Velasquez doesn’t have a ton of charisma but has a ready made feud with Brock and there are plenty of lower card guys and gals who would fit right in. If Jones ever takes up WWE he will quickly become the greatest in ring performer of all time as he has unmatched athleticism, assuming he can keep from getting suspended.

This UFC/WWE thing is just the beginning. McGregor in roughly 2020 or 2022 will put Mayweather’s original Wrestlemania pay day to shame in a fight potentially against, ironically, Mayweather himself.

[Edited on 8-9-2018 by DKBroiler]


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 04:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Learn these names as they will be main eventing Wrestlmanias soonee rather than later ... Cain Velasquez, Daniel Cormier, Connor McGregor and - hopefully - the best fighter on Earth with seriously questionable character issues - Jon Jones.


I can't wait to see Jon Jones and Connor McGregor tear it up on 205 Live.


By 205 Live you mean the main event of Wrestlemania in front of 100k people I think.


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 04:27 PM

Ol’ CTE brain forgot what I came here to post in my MMAisizing.

Renee Young will be doing commentary on RAM this week in what promises to be a vast improvement over Coach.

I fully expect this to mean we get an Ambrose return where he goes heel cause Vince is funny like that.


GodEatGod - 8-9-2018 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Renee Young will be doing commentary on RAM this week in what promises to be a vast improvement over Coach.



Renee Young is sort of a miracle - maybe the most universally liked and respected on-screen interview/broadcaster they've had in years and years. Other than Mean Gene, she's probably the GOAT of backstage interviewers. I think she could really knock it out of the park.


punkerhardcore - 8-9-2018 at 05:09 PM

It also helps that she's been a constant on screen presence for a while now. It seemed like they had a long stretch there where it was a revolving door of some other interchangeable background player every few weeks. That all stopped once they finally settled on Charley Caruso, and Dasha Whatever-her-name-is. And that one other guy whose name I can't remember... is he even still around?

Come to think of it, he may actually be the one who is the Smackdown ring announcer now...


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 05:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Renee Young will be doing commentary on RAM this week in what promises to be a vast improvement over Coach.



Renee Young is sort of a miracle - maybe the most universally liked and respected on-screen interview/broadcaster they've had in years and years. Other than Mean Gene, she's probably the GOAT of backstage interviewers. I think she could really knock it out of the park.


100% all of this. If you don’t like Renee Young you’re just a bad person.


Wickedfrost - 8-9-2018 at 05:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGodRenee Young is sort of a miracle - maybe the most universally liked and respected on-screen interview/broadcaster they've had in years and years. Other than Mean Gene, she's probably the GOAT of backstage interviewers. I think she could really knock it out of the park.


Besides the obvious talent - the thing that sets her apart is that she's a genuine wrestling fan who knows the business and respects the craft. She's not a model or an actress - just a legit sportscaster who you could realistically see being in the bar with friends marking out for Raw.


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 06:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Wickedfrost
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGodRenee Young is sort of a miracle - maybe the most universally liked and respected on-screen interview/broadcaster they've had in years and years. Other than Mean Gene, she's probably the GOAT of backstage interviewers. I think she could really knock it out of the park.


Besides the obvious talent - the thing that sets her apart is that she's a genuine wrestling fan who knows the business and respects the craft. She's not a model or an actress - just a legit sportscaster who you could realistically see being in the bar with friends marking out for Raw.


Irony: “she’s not a model” yet is better looking than 99% of the world. Haha. Never underestimate the power of being adorable.


bigfatgoalie - 8-9-2018 at 07:04 PM

I think it also helps that Renee Paquette could easily work for ESPN, Fox, NBC, TSN, or Sportsnet. She was an Up and comer for The Score before joking WWE. Given Jackie Red parlayed replacing the same role in to a job with US networks, Renee would have multiple offers.

And I hope it works. If for no other reason than it could allow Graves to call one show a week. I think his flaws get magnified with the current crews. A Cole/Coach/Young team could also allow Coach to be more of a heel announcer.


anglefan85 - 8-9-2018 at 08:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Renee Young will be doing commentary on RAM this week in what promises to be a vast improvement over Coach.



Renee Young is sort of a miracle - maybe the most universally liked and respected on-screen interview/broadcaster they've had in years and years. Other than Mean Gene, she's probably the GOAT of backstage interviewers. I think she could really knock it out of the park.


100% all of this. If you don’t like Renee Young you’re just a bad person.


Can't really argue against this. Renee's one of the best that they have in that regard.


First 9 - 8-9-2018 at 08:23 PM

Punk and Cabana are back in legal drama, but this time it's against each other!!!

Only Caban's side of the story is out so far and the picture that's being painted is that Punk promised he'd cover all the legal costs and now he's telling Cabana he'll just pay his part leaving Cabana with a considerable six figure amount hanging over his head.


anglefan85 - 8-9-2018 at 08:23 PM

chicago.suntimes.com/news/colt-cabana-cm-punk-contract-legal-fees-lawsuit/

quote:
From the Chicago Sun Times:

Cabana, whose real name is Scott Colton, is suing UFC fighter CM Punk, whose real name is Phillip Jack Brooks, for breach of contract and fraud in Cook County Circuit Court. Cabana’s lawsuit contends Punk promised to help him out with the legal bills they amassed fighting the defamation lawsuit. Cabana claims Punk told him in a text that he would be “100% covered.”

Punk has failed to keep that promise, leaving him with unpaid legal bills totaling $513,736, according to the lawsuit.

Punk asked Cabana to pay half of the legal fees, which comes out to $256,868, saying “You are on your own.”

Cabana is asking for $200,000 in general damages, along with $1 million in punitive and exemplary damages, according to the lawsuit.

The lawsuit claims “Brooks acted with fraud, malice and oppression toward Colton, with the deliberate intention of causing Colton harm.”



That's a total dick move on Punk's part. If your buddy needs financial help and you can cover it, you should have your buddy's back. Colt gave him the chance to speak his side of the story, which also dragged him into this situation, and this is how he pays him back.


First 9 - 8-9-2018 at 08:48 PM

WWE even offered Colt an out by asking him to take the podcast down, but his loyalty(and the advice of a shitty lawyer) had him stay put and now he's fucked.


DKBroiler - 8-9-2018 at 08:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by anglefan85
chicago.suntimes.com/news/colt-cabana-cm-punk-contract-legal-fees-lawsuit/

quote:
From the Chicago Sun Times:

Cabana, whose real name is Scott Colton, is suing UFC fighter CM Punk, whose real name is Phillip Jack Brooks, for breach of contract and fraud in Cook County Circuit Court. Cabana’s lawsuit contends Punk promised to help him out with the legal bills they amassed fighting the defamation lawsuit. Cabana claims Punk told him in a text that he would be “100% covered.”

Punk has failed to keep that promise, leaving him with unpaid legal bills totaling $513,736, according to the lawsuit.

Punk asked Cabana to pay half of the legal fees, which comes out to $256,868, saying “You are on your own.”

Cabana is asking for $200,000 in general damages, along with $1 million in punitive and exemplary damages, according to the lawsuit.

The lawsuit claims “Brooks acted with fraud, malice and oppression toward Colton, with the deliberate intention of causing Colton harm.”



That's a total dick move on Punk's part. If your buddy needs financial help and you can cover it, you should have your buddy's back. Colt gave him the chance to speak his side of the story, which also dragged him into this situation, and this is how he pays him back.


He’s a cunt.

Not paying is one thing ... but don’t lie to your buddy about it. I’m sure there are two sides but there is a mounting pile of evidence that Punk is a ... well ... punk.


bigfatgoalie - 8-9-2018 at 08:56 PM

Punk the wrestler = awesome.

Punk the person = an irrational, disloyal cunt. I’m surprised there’s no stories of him cheating on AJ.


denverpunk - 8-9-2018 at 09:22 PM

Not just from this (because who knows the truth if an agreement wasn't in writing), but I've seen nothing to suggest that Punk isn't a sociopath or borderline. A shitty upbringing will do that to a guy, but it's still his responsibility to not act like a complete dick.

[Edited on 8-9-2018 by denverpunk]


williamssl - 8-9-2018 at 09:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
there’s no stories of him cheating on AJ.


Hey I just started my own rumor! You read it here first, Meltzer. Be sure to give credit to OO as your source.


icOOnic


janerd75 - 8-9-2018 at 09:32 PM

All too easy. I am the icOOn!



I am the icOOn!


Paddlefoot - 8-9-2018 at 09:57 PM

Guess Corey Graves was right when he went on that Twitter rant several weeks back where he said Punk was the shittiest "friend" he'd ever had, a guy who drops his pals as soon as he no longer has any use for them. Of course the CM Punk sk8rbois* went nuts on Graves for calling their hero out, like the cultist little lemmings they are. At this stage in the Punk saga it should be obligatory for anyone who meets Teddy Hart to buy him a beer just as a thank you for beating Punk up for being too much of a prick back when they were in the indies together.

*sk8rbois - another proud IcOOnic moment in OO history



[Edited on 8/9/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Count Zero - 8-9-2018 at 10:15 PM

I'm about to be That Guy, but I figure it could be my icOOnic moment.

The only thing I've ever liked about CM Punk was "Cult Of Personality".

(edited to add 100% more O to the iconicness)

[Edited on 8-9-2018 by Count Zero]


anglefan85 - 8-9-2018 at 10:35 PM

A more detailed version of the Punk-Cabana lawsuit:

quote:
The Chicago Sun-Times reported this afternoon that Ring of Honor Star Scott "Colt Cabana" Colton filed a lawsuit against former WWE Champion Phil "CM Punk" Brooks in Cook County Circuit Court in Illinois on 8/7 over alleged unpaid legal fees and breach of contract, stemming from the lawsuit that WWE physician Doctor Chris Amann filed against the two in regard to Punk's appearance on Cabana's Art of Wrestling podcast.

According to the Sun-Times article, Cabana's 15-page lawsuit alleges that "Brooks acted with fraud, malice and oppression toward Colton, with the deliberate intention of causing Colton harm."

Cabana is alleging that when Dr. Amann's attorneys contacted him with a cease and desist letter related to the podcast in December 2014, Punk told him not to respond. When Amann filed his lawsuit against them, Cabana alleged that Punk told him, via text, that his legal bills would be covered.

However, Cabana alleges that he received an April 2016 email from Punk regarding a financial billing Punk had received from his legal representatives, Loeb & Loeb, with Punk writing, "To date I have spent $513,736 dollars on this Amman lawsuit. My outstanding bill is at least 300K. Half of all this is yours. Divide the 513,736 by 2 that is what you owe me and what I expect you to pay me. Starting now, I will no longer be paying your bills. You are on your own. Whatever my bill is currently, will be cut in half and half will be yours. If you choose to make this all ugly, that's fine too. I hope you won't, but I gave up on you doing what is right a long time ago."

It had been believed for some time that there had been a personal falling out between the two over the course of the Amann lawsuit. Based on the correspondence included in the lawsuit, that certainly appears to have been the case.

Cabana claims in the lawsuit that he was later told by Punk's attorney that he would continue to represent Cabana, even if Cabana wasn't paying the fees, as long there "is no conflict between you and Phil that prevents me from morally and ethically representing you."

Cabana retained Loeb & Loeb until March 2017, when he claimed that he was forced to hire his own representation. In the lawsuit, Cabana stated he was "informed and believed" that Punk caused Loeb & Loeb to withdraw as Cabana's attorney.

After their courtroom victory over Amann's lawsuit, Cabana's attorneys approached Punk, seeking payment of $200,000, the cost of Cabana's legal fees post-Loeb & Loeb. Punk turned that overture down, leading to Cabana's claim of breach of contract.

Cabana is also claiming that had he not listened to Punk and just responded to the original cease and desist letter, he would not have dealt with any "costs, expenses or losses" in regard to the Amann case.

Cabana is asking for $1 Million in punitive and exemplary damages and $200,000 (aka the cost of his representation during the Amann lawsuit) in general damages. He is seeking a jury trial. Obviously, Punk has not yet responded to the lawsuit.

What is amazing about all this is after their long, grueling legal process against Amann, now the process will begin anew for Punk and Cabana, who at one point were the best of friends dating back to their earliest days in professional wrestling.

After having a legal case hovering over them for years, they are right back to where they started, except now, they are facing each other. It's likely the last thing either would have predicted would have happened the night they sat down to record the now infamous episode of Cabana's


"I gave up on you doing what is right a long time ago." Man, this is beyond bitter. Punk is coming off like a sociopath. Colt put his own neck out there for him.

Colt even made comments about the trial and the stress from it was hurting his health:


quote:
"My body, I don’t think I’m sick at all; but, my body has all the symptoms of sickness. There are so many flu-like symptoms and I’ve been having nausea and side cramps and I know it’s just the pressure or the stress….just everyday going to this trial waking up I just get sick to my stomach going in and then walking into that courtroom. I feel gross. I feel so gross. I’ve been popping Tylenol and I’m not saying I’m some straight edge kid; but, I never take any kind of pain medicine. I feel like I have to just to even it all out…I was the most nauseous I’ve ever been. I felt the worst I’ve ever felt….I was at an all time disgust mode, just feeling with my whole body…it was an awful feeling."


As someone that went through a lot of stress getting my degree, I can attest to the fact that stress can totally make you feel like that.

[Edited on 8-9-2018 by anglefan85]


CCharger - 8-9-2018 at 11:03 PM

Punk is the same guy who hasn't spoken to his brother in almost two decades after his brother stole some money from the backyard fed they ran together.

The guy has serious trust issues and if he feels any hint of betrayal or dishonestly, he drops that friend forever.

I really think Punk is a deeply sad guy. I almost feel bad for him.


Fifth Horseman - 8-10-2018 at 12:04 AM

I'd love to see Vince cover those costs.


First 9 - 8-10-2018 at 01:15 AM

So the best that can be concluded from that is Cabana took Punk on his word with a text the closest thing to a formal agreement, something personal happened, and because there was no firm contract Punk used that wiggle room to avoid paying Cabana's part of the legal bills. And whatever betrayals/backstabbings/slights that happened(or only exist in somoebody's head) will rear it's ugly head in court as Punk will try to justify why he went back on his word.

In other news, ROH has almost sold 12,000 tickets for their MSG show which will be set up for 15k/16k people so it's a guarantee they'll sell out. I guess they'll no longer feel the need to bang on Punk's door.


punkerhardcore - 8-10-2018 at 03:21 AM

quote:
However, Cabana alleges that he received an April 2016 email from Punk regarding a financial billing Punk had received from his legal representatives, Loeb & Loeb,It had been believed for some time that there had been a personal falling out between the two over the course of the Amann lawsuit. Based on the correspondence included in the lawsuit, that certainly appears to have been the case.

Cabana is also claiming that had he not listened to Punk and just responded to the original cease and desist letter, he would not have dealt with any "costs, expenses or losses" in regard to the Amann case.


Opening argument:

"You say..... I only hear what I want to..."


williamssl - 8-10-2018 at 03:39 AM







[Edited on 8-10-2018 by williamssl]


denverpunk - 8-10-2018 at 03:41 AM

Seconded. That's fucking terrific.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-10-2018 at 03:58 AM

I defended Punk in the last discussion about him.

Now?

Nah. That’s really lousy of him. Dude’s sounding more and more unhinged.


Flash - 8-10-2018 at 05:20 AM

The sad part is if Colt looses this lawsuit then he'd not only have the original contentious legal bill, but would definitely be further in debt to just pursue this suit AND maybe have to pay Punks legal bills that he'd rack up defending against Colt.

The law is messed up when not everyone has equal access to it.


Paddlefoot - 8-10-2018 at 05:35 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
I'd love to see Vince cover those costs.


Even better give Cabana a job. "Hey, what's Scotty Goldman doing back in a WWE ring, Saxton?!?!?".


ulsterphil - 8-10-2018 at 10:30 AM

Punk couldnt be a shittier person if he came into your house on Christmas morning, set fire on your tree and pissed on your kids.

I wish him all the misery in the world.


bigfatgoalie - 8-10-2018 at 01:53 PM

WWE has announced Cena vs Owens for the Australia super show. Good choice as the two have great chemistry. Also, any time KO gets a marquee match is a good thing.


Paddlefoot - 8-10-2018 at 01:58 PM

No doubt. That's like a PPV main event and the Aussies will be privileged if Cena debuts the new addition to his moves-o'doom set because he's been talking up a storm about it lately on his Twitter and Instagram accounts.


TownOfDalem - 8-10-2018 at 02:06 PM

If they really want it to matter it should be Cena going for his 17th world title reign against a champion Owens. Come on Summerslam result I want!

Regarding Punk, all evidence points to him being a jackass and really shitty friend. I'll still rewatch his best moments and would be excited for a return to WWE. Only Benoit has hit the level where I have a hard time watching his stuff. The pipebomb is iconic.


First 9 - 8-10-2018 at 02:17 PM

I know he's a company guy but Cena making some snarky comments about his historic 17th Title win coming from winning the shitty world title knock off would be great.


Paddlefoot - 8-10-2018 at 02:22 PM

A match doesn't have to matter in order to be great though. Sting/DDP & Lodi/Lenny Lane from WCW alone come to mind. The odds are slim now these days to have Cena in a match that matters at any event that isn't Wrestlemania, given his ongoing transition to non-wrestling work.

There's one thing I'd really like Cena to do again though before he calls it quits for good and that's to have one more diss promo battle with The Rock just so they can comment on who's been in a crappier movie, Scorpion King or Doom vs Bumblebee or The Marine.


anglefan85 - 8-10-2018 at 03:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Punk is the same guy who hasn't spoken to his brother in almost two decades after his brother stole some money from the backyard fed they ran together.

The guy has serious trust issues and if he feels any hint of betrayal or dishonestly, he drops that friend forever.

I really think Punk is a deeply sad guy. I almost feel bad for him.


I know its got nothing to do with the case, its his own personal life, and usually something I wouldn't call into question, but I was just thinking: its kinda ironic that Punk, a guy that can rival Batista in how many women he's slept with over the years, has issues in trusting people.


denverpunk - 8-10-2018 at 03:37 PM

When the women get too close, he freaks out and dumps them. It's honestly sad, and to echo Charger, in some ways I do feel sorry for him. A bitter life is not a good life.


Paddlefoot - 8-10-2018 at 03:53 PM

Hopefully AJ Lee comes out of it unscathed. Right now I doubt Punk would be the kind of guy, with what we know about him now for good or bad, that would be a physical domestic abuser. Psychologically and emotionally though, given how he's now known to treat friends that he's apparently arbitrarily decided have wronged him? If AJ "steps out of line", in Punk's view, she might end up with him doing a really bad mental number on her because if he's that touchy when it comes to an alleged betrayal by friends then a wife who's going to eventually do something that really bothers him certainly won't be immune from ending up in a really a bad situation at home.

[Edited on 8/10/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 8-10-2018 at 04:02 PM

* With the ROH/NJPW MSG show nearing a sellout, the WWE has made it a priority to sign as many big names that might be appearing on that show as possible. In response, ROH announced that it will "do everything they can" to retain Cody and the Young Bucks, but acknowledged that they cannot win a bidding war with the WWE.


First 9 - 8-10-2018 at 04:18 PM

None of his Ex have thrashed him with some like Maria still speaking nicely about him. Joey Mecury thinks the world out of him, his friendship with Kofi seems to still be intact and of course he's married to a girl who has could easily find somebody else and doesn't have to put up with his BS.

I wouldn't say he's assholish to the point of being a cold-hearted sociopath. I get the vibe that he's more of a thin-skinned, over emotional sissy. Dumping people for perceived wrongs or because they're trying to use him or whatever and letting that shit fester.

Look at his version of the story about main eventing WM. He went on a tirade months after their pay days, ranting at Vince with HHH trying to calm him down and reminding him that his match with The Undertaker was just as big as Cena vs Rock and HHH vs Lesnar. Punk slipped a comment about his WM pay day not reflecting that and kept going on about other shit. Now compare that to Jericho who had the same issue when HHH was payed a lot more for their WM18 Main Event, he went to Vince as soon as he found out and demanded an explanation. Vince was suprised(or acted suprised) and wrote Jericho another check to keep him happy. Simple and to the point compared to Punk exploding on his bosses on a random RAW.

Again, this was Punk's version of what happened. He complained about it long after it happened and he went off on different shit not giving a clear idea of what exactly he wanted leaving Vince and HHH dumfounded. It reeks of an immature guy wanting attention or wanting to be cuddled.


Paddlefoot - 8-10-2018 at 04:34 PM

After it was shown clearly in the Amman trial that Punk didn't know the difference between an inflamed cyst and a staph infection, even after the medical personnel that treated him told him right then and there when he treated it that it was "most likely" just a cyst (because Punk didn't want it biopsied to see exactly what it was), and then having him go on a shit-fit during the Cabana podcast about "it was a staph infection, I coulda died!", it's gotta be pretty clear that he plays fairly loose with the facts of how situations actually occur. With that in mind I wouldn't believe a thing he ever said about any of his interactions with Vince, Hunter, Cabana, Amman, or anyone else that's ended up on his list of personal enemies. That's not making WWE the good guys either, that's just acknowledging that Punk is an unreliable narrator. At worst he's a liar. At best he lets his anger and bitterness build up so much in his mind that the way he remembers anything that happened are so distorted from reality that his view of things can't be trusted. In the end he's really no different that any other wrestler, like the old farts with the endless clips on YouTube, who nurse grudges for far too long and with far too much intensity that's way too mentally unhealthy for them to indulge in.


First 9 - 8-10-2018 at 04:50 PM

Atleast if WWE ever wants to do an Ultimate Warrior-style unflaterring historical potrayal for him they got plenty of material.


Slick - 8-10-2018 at 06:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Atleast if WWE ever wants to do an Ultimate Warrior-style unflaterring historical potrayal for him they got plenty of material.


Haha, I was just thinking the same thing. For me, that's about the only CM Punk thing I'd be interested in seeing from here on out.


CCharger - 8-10-2018 at 07:07 PM

What would some good titles for that DVD be?

CM Punk Pipebombs His Legacy

CM Punk: The Jim Jones of the Cult of Personality

CM Punk: How to Fuck Over Your Friends and Piss Off Influential People

The CM Punk Story: From Chick Magnet to Punk

Fuck: The CM Punk Story


Matte - 8-10-2018 at 07:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Fuck: The CM Punk Story

I imagined Iron Sheik shouting "FUCK THA CM PUNK!"


First 9 - 8-10-2018 at 07:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
CM Punk Pipebombs His Legacy


This one just reeks of WWE marketing. I can already imagine the self-important somber commercial with quotes from HHH and Micael Hayes.

EDIT:Also got a chuckle remembering that Bret Hart patched things up with WWE in part because he was terrified of WWE giving him the Ultimate Warrior treatment and ''tainting his legacy''. Vince has always known to play with guys who are marks for themselves.


[Edited on 8-10-2018 by First 9]


Count Zero - 8-10-2018 at 07:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by anglefan85
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Punk is the same guy who hasn't spoken to his brother in almost two decades after his brother stole some money from the backyard fed they ran together.

The guy has serious trust issues and if he feels any hint of betrayal or dishonestly, he drops that friend forever.

I really think Punk is a deeply sad guy. I almost feel bad for him.


I know its got nothing to do with the case, its his own personal life, and usually something I wouldn't call into question, but I was just thinking: its kinda ironic that Punk, a guy that can rival Batista in how many women he's slept with over the years, has issues in trusting people.
Manipulative people often don't trust others because they think everybody is a manipulator like they are.


janerd75 - 8-10-2018 at 10:24 PM

I tried.


Paddlefoot - 8-10-2018 at 10:40 PM

Narrated by Tommy Billington.


Flash - 8-11-2018 at 08:28 AM

I'm too sleepy to think... who's the older guy in the middle of Janerd's poster?

The more I hear, or read the various backstage stories thanks to the surplus of tell all books, shoot interviews, and podcasts the more I become convinced that for all the slagging the wrestlers do of online fans being marks they themselves are more often than not the biggest marks.

In saying that... ramping CM Punk up from thin skinned asshole whose side of this whole fiasco we've yet to hear to being a prime candidate to meet some kind of Benoit like fate is probably over doing it.


Katie Vick killer - 8-11-2018 at 09:32 AM

I think it's Ole Anderson.

Ole is by all accounts a miserable old cunt and the facial hair fits.

[Edited on 11/8/2018 by Katie Vick killer]


janerd75 - 8-11-2018 at 06:20 PM

Correct on both counts!


CCharger - 8-11-2018 at 11:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
Correct on both counts!



http://www.oowrestling.com/OOForums/viewthread.php?tid=31556

Obligatory.


Paddlefoot - 8-12-2018 at 01:29 AM

Today's "newz":

* rumour went around that Rusev is/was planning on quitting after SummerSlam; this one has allegedly been quashed but it is notable that Rusev/Lana vs Andrade/Zelina has been placed on the low-status pre-show for the PPV

* same thing regarding Asuka, in that she allegedly walked out, or was going to walk out on, this week's Smackdown after getting in a heated argument with management backstage; the story goes as far to say that she's so pissed off at the current booking that she was even refusing to take their phone calls

* old harassment stories about Randy Orton being a high school grade of jackass to the writers have surfaced; apparently Orton liked a joke where he'd meet a new writer, pull his dick out of his pants for everyone to see, then act all offended if the newbie wouldn't shake the hand he just touched himself with; the story goes that he nearly got caught doing this when Stephanie arrived at a meeting earlier than expected and he had to hastily stuff his junk back under cover before she saw it


royberto - 8-12-2018 at 01:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* old harassment stories about Randy Orton being a high school grade of jackass to the writers have surfaced; apparently Orton liked a joke where he'd meet a new writer, pull his dick out of his pants for everyone to see, then act all offended if the newbie wouldn't shake the hand he just touched himself with; the story goes that he nearly got caught doing this when Stephanie arrived at a meeting earlier than expected and he had to hastily stuff his junk back under cover before she saw it
The source of said story is Court Bauer. Since he is a raging douche, he is the last guy I would take the word of.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-12-2018 at 04:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Today's "newz":


* old harassment stories about Randy Orton being a high school grade of jackass to the writers have surfaced; apparently Orton liked a joke where he'd meet a new writer, pull his dick out of his pants for everyone to see, then act all offended if the newbie wouldn't shake the hand he just touched himself with; the story goes that he nearly got caught doing this when Stephanie arrived at a meeting earlier than expected and he had to hastily stuff his junk back under cover before she saw it


I would have immediately responded by putting my hands in my own pants and saying “I have herpes. Nice to meet you” and then extend my hand.

Orton’s a known mid-30’s adolescent, so this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.


First 9 - 8-12-2018 at 06:30 AM

Orton thing will probably be a non-story(unless somebody else backs the story up) but it is impressive how WWE was forced to respond toa simple Reddit post quoting something Bauer said six years ago. Just another reminded how years old stories can one day out of blue gain momentum and cause issues.

Wether it's true or not is hard to tell because this fits so weel with the other immature, shitt stuff that's confirmed to happen around wrestling lockerooms.


the goon - 8-12-2018 at 06:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* rumour went around that Rusev is/was planning on quitting after SummerSlam; this one has allegedly been quashed but it is notable that Rusev/Lana vs Andrade/Zelina has been placed on the low-status pre-show for the PPV

* same thing regarding Asuka, in that she allegedly walked out, or was going to walk out on, this week's Smackdown after getting in a heated argument with management backstage; the story goes as far to say that she's so pissed off at the current booking that she was even refusing to take their phone calls


I was just thinking during Smackdown how Rusev went from challenging AJ for the WWE title at the last PPV to the pre-show at SummerSlam. That's gotta sting.

And if anyone in WWE has a right to be pissed, it's Asuka. They've bungled her character so much after how dominant she was in NXT and having her lose to Charlotte at WrestleMania and then go 0-2 against Carmella is fucking lame.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-12-2018 at 07:15 AM

Agreed. If anyone has felt the roller coaster more than others, it’s her.

I really don’t care for people who look at others resumes on paper and then simply say “yeah, I think she’s doing just fine”. She hasn’t won a meaningful match since the Rumble, the Wrestlemania match wasn’t long enough to have been where she lost, and her subsequent title opportunities are lamer and lamer.

Simply looking at cards featuring her isn’t an indicator of what’s really happening in terms of HOW she is booked in those programs.


Wickedfrost - 8-12-2018 at 06:10 PM

Cabana aired the podcast. Didn't edit anything potentially damaging or exposing to liability. Profits from the exposure and controversy. Take the friendship out and he's a shock jock who didn't cover asses properly. None of this would have been a thing if he'd been a responsible or educated brodcasted. Punk may be a shitty friend but Colt wasn't complaining when he was taking advantage of that friendship. Punk's naivety about legal costs and partial liability don't negate that Colt screwed Colt. Buy the I use my friends for ratings t-tshirt today.


[Edited on 8-12-2018 by Wickedfrost]


Matte - 8-12-2018 at 06:29 PM

My belief was that Punk and Colt were both gaining what they wanted from the podcast. Colt was gaining viewership, Punk was gaining an outlet to voice his grievances. I wouldn't label a mutually beneficial friendship as one side using the other, but that's just my own opinion. As for why Colt didn't edit or remove the podcast: it's because Punk said he would cover any legal costs that would stem from it. When the costs became more than he'd envisioned, he decided to back out of his promise. If that promise was never made in the first place, Colt very well may have taken the podcast down and avoided this entire mess.


Wickedfrost - 8-12-2018 at 07:17 PM

Colt Cabana the podcast is a business that should have behaved as such. Early on Punk may have not been able to tell the difference and thought he was dealing with CC the friend. Punk could have also thought that Amman would be on the hook for legal costs and, not being a lawyer passed on bad advice. Colt should have asked better questions and got his own lawyer. Again Punk is a douche but Cabana is not a victim here. Just because you're indie it doesn't mean you can be ignorant of the rules.


Paddlefoot - 8-12-2018 at 07:31 PM

Don't think anyone's said Cabana is a victim, just that he's the much lesser asshole when compared to CM Punk. Cabana's really just a victim of his own poor decision to have a crank like Phil Brooks as a friend because that "friend" has really dragged him into an unending world of shit. You're correct that his podcast being a business made him liable to be included in the Amman lawsuit. Even if he didn't lose that trial Cabana, and all the other wrestlers with their own podcasts, are hopefully more than aware now that they (or their guests) can't just fly off the handle with an accusatory rant without facing some serious consequences if one of the targets of their ire thinks they've been wronged.

That being said though, if Cabana has a text that's been verified by his own lawyers to have come from CM Punk, then Punk has clearly reneged on a verbal contractual agreement regarding payment of the legal fees. On the surface it appears Cabana has a slam-dunk case if that text message is legit. Anything can happen, of course, but if this plays out in the way it appears it will then Punk is going to be coughing up some serious skrilla when it's over. Clearly he's too belligerent to listen to anyone's advice, but if Punk's lawyers tell him to settle now and get it over with then he'd be smart to do so because it's unlikely that lightning will strike twice for him in another court victory.


First 9 - 8-12-2018 at 09:50 PM

This really doesn't sound like slam dunk a case for him unfortunately. Everything seems to be riding on fucking texts and according to Colt, Punk's lawyers agreed that they would keep representing him ''unless ethical reasons prevented them'' which sounds like just thing lawyers could spin into justifying them ditching him and then saying Punk's ''I got you covered '' text only included fees under them, so those $200k Cabana wants for his own lawyers are his problem.

And again, this is just Cabana's version and it doesn't sound completely in his favor, the real story might be even worse. That Punk quote in particular is pretty telling, ''If you choose to make this all ugly, that's fine too. I hope you won't, but I gave up on you doing what is right a long time ago.'' The motherfucker was already anticipating this and his lawyers are more than prepared.


GodEatGod - 8-12-2018 at 09:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187

I really don’t care for people who look at others resumes on paper and then simply say “yeah, I think she’s doing just fine”. She hasn’t won a meaningful match since the Rumble, the Wrestlemania match wasn’t long enough to have been where she lost, and her subsequent title opportunities are lamer and lamer.

Simply looking at cards featuring her isn’t an indicator of what’s really happening in terms of HOW she is booked in those programs.


I only object to the idea that she's ruined forever, which is a bit of hyperbole that often gets tossed around. I think she's been booked badly and her feud with Carmella might make my worst feuds list at the end of the year. But Asuka's a great performer who's still pretty over and she could be put back on the right track with decent booking (and maybe a heel turn). Smackdown women in general suffer from the fact that all the heels are jobbers, including the heel champion.


First 9 - 8-12-2018 at 10:03 PM

God knows how many times they've dug up Kane and Big Show from looking like schmucks in the midcard to terrorizing main eventers in less than a month.

[Edited on 8-12-2018 by First 9]


bigfatgoalie - 8-12-2018 at 10:30 PM

If nothing else, Asuka being off TV for a couple of weeks will get the stink off of her. She can instantly pop up on any Tuesday as a legit challenger. Or could move back to RAW after SummerSlam to setup a dream match with Rousey.

So yeah...she should be the SmackDown women’s champ...but she’s still a tippy top talent.


royberto - 8-13-2018 at 01:07 AM

I will just leave this here. Mandy Rose lifting 315lbs via pelvic thrust:

Not my best reps but always improving... 315lbs modified/using bosu ball w my bestie always motivating me @sonyadevillewwe ☺️💪🏼 pic.twitter.com/k26PF06036

— Mandy (@WWE_MandyRose) August 12, 2018


Flash - 8-13-2018 at 02:16 AM

The Asuka rumour was said to originate from Johnson with PWI, and he has since tweeted out that this is BS, and that he never said this... So probably best to take the Asuka rumour about a rumour with an extra helping of salt.

I'm sure anyone getting left off of Summer Slam would probably be a bit peeved as it probably is one of their better pay days, but the newly added Evolution PPV probably goes a long way towards making up for it for a lot of the ladies. Given how much Asuka makes off merch' and her regularly getting plenty of TV time I'm guessing one missed payday while you're still getting a heavy push isn't likely to make you throw the baby out with the bath water in terms of walking out over one payday when you're probably making far more here than you would anywhere elsewhere.


Flash - 8-13-2018 at 07:17 AM

So one rumour going around about the finish of Summer Slam is that Reigns will win only for Lesnar to immediately lay him out... This will then lead to Rollins and Ambrose making the run in for the save, and the Shield reuniting with their triple power bomb to send Lesnar packing.

You know I actually think this might work as far as sending audiences home happy-ish.. but I see three problems;

1) The ending will have to be rushed... elsewise we're just going to get Reigns being booed and Lesnar cheered for the time between pin, beat down, and Shield save... Kind of a jerky uneven finish.

2) Won't it just seem like they are playing Reigns music because he won since he never changed his music once the Shield broke up? I mean yeah once Rollins and Ambrose are seen there could be a big pop.

3) If audiences were willing to boo the Rock after having not seen him for a bit then it's really banking on the Shield getting some good will and/or audiences hating Brock.

The problem remains why is the WWE working so hard to cover up something everyone knows anyway? Like let's say this idea (or whatever they cook up) works for them and the crowd cheers... Do they cheer again the next night at Raw when the Shield comes out? When does it start to taint the Shield and just turns back to Roman-reactions?

As far as at least booking for one night and getting Reigns a cheer I'd rank it probably a bit closer to whenever Reigns is on camera a picture in picture of a woman shaking her naked breasts as part of some boob-o-vision as ways to get him over than I would Reigns beating Brock, only for Brock to raise Roman's hand in some kind of torch passing moment... But man... fans tell you what they want in wrestling... and probably with a much bigger voice than a lot of other forms of entertainment, so why make so much work for yourself by putting your flagship guy in these spots where you have to bust out all your tricks to get him a cheer for one night?


DKBroiler - 8-13-2018 at 12:21 PM

Asuka

- She was undefeated for like 2.5 years
- She lost arguably the most hyped woman’s match in WWE history to their biggest female star.
- She had two extremely questionable losses to a young star who is over as fuck as one of the best talkers in the industry.
- She can’t talk.

So ... she’s essentially been built as the 2nd most dominant female in the world who can only legitimately be beat by 1 person and happened to lose a small handful of matches in shady fashion after not losing for over 2 years. So, what’s the problem?

If she really has a problem with the booking maybe she should ask the 200 women who put her over how they feel about the booking. They’ve asked her to solidify one generational superstar in Charlotte and to make one up and comer in Carmella. We shit on Reigns every day but he makes more people in a month than Asuka has in 3 years.

I’ll assume this is internet garbage.

[Edited on 8-13-2018 by DKBroiler]


G. Jonah Jameson - 8-13-2018 at 02:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
So one rumour going around about the finish of Summer Slam is that Reigns will win only for Lesnar to immediately lay him out... This will then lead to Rollins and Ambrose making the run in for the save, and the Shield reuniting with their triple power bomb to send Lesnar packing.



I'm skeptical about this rumor because it results in Brock Lesnar being made to look bad twice in one night (first by losing to Roman Reigns cleanly, then by getting beaten up by the Shield). The WWE booking team showed no interest in making Lesnar look bad even before the upcoming UFC fight was announced, and I very much doubt they'd want to make him look bad now.

It would start to make sense if the Shield got involved mid-match, though. Lesnar can't put Reigns away, ref gets bumped, Lesnar grabs a chair, Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose run out to stop him from using it, Reigns capitalizes on the distraction and manages to put Lesnar away as a result. So the champion WWE wants to protect (Lesnar) doesn't lose completely cleanly, but the challenger WWE also wants to protect (Reigns) didn't do anything wrong; the champion only lost because he, for all intents and purposes, distracted himself. Kinda the same approach WWE took to the CM Punk-John Cena title change at Money in the Bank 2011.


DKBroiler - 8-13-2018 at 02:49 PM

I just want Ambrose to come back as a tweener who likes Rollins and hates Roman for reasons yet to be determined. How about he comes back, lays out McIntyer to help Rollins win the IC and then they both run in to help against Brock but Ambrose lays out Roman instead?

If they position Ambrose as pro-Rollins and anti-Roman we could have a Stone Cold Dean Ambrose level of popularity situation on our hands.

As for Lesnar, just have Braun beat him after that nonsense and we’re good.

[Edited on 8-13-2018 by DKBroiler]


SpiNNeR72 - 8-13-2018 at 05:03 PM

The Shield idea is plausible route to go down but I think its more likely we get a slobberknocker between Reigns and Lesnar till they're both fucked, and Owens leaves with the title.

Possibly a clean pin for Reigns first to give a reason for Lesnar to come back after his UFC stink.


nOOb - 8-13-2018 at 06:26 PM

I think the most hilarious route to take would be Reigns beats Lesnar clean and then beats whoever tries to cash in on him clean as well without any help or heel turn. That would get the people on his side *he says sneakily hoping the secret WWE writer reading this thinks it to be a good idea*.


williamssl - 8-13-2018 at 07:02 PM

I have perpetually been in the anti-Reigns camp but if that happened I would TOTALLY convert to being a fan. Book it!


Paddlefoot - 8-13-2018 at 10:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Asuka

So, what’s the problem?


1) it's probably not good for the overall women's division to have both belts held at the same time by chickenshit heels that, as good as they are at yapping, aren't the best in the ring; they can only get away with chicanery for so long before it's no longer fun; none of this is a slight against either Alexa or Carmella, just noting that this sort of booking gives fuel to the no-mind dipshit fuckwits who can't get past the "they're only champs because they're blonde hotties and Vince/Dunn want to fuck them" sort of thinking; they're going to have to make up for this by having the faces be dominant champs for at least six months straight in order to restore some kind of balance to the implausible situation they have right now

2) the way the second loss to Carmella happened made Asuka look stupid; this was the woman who wasn't scared of anything in NXT, and even tried to get out of moving car to attack back when Nikki Cross ambushed the vehicle; having her stand there stunned like an idiot and get hit from behind when Ellsworth came out dressed as her was just dumb and didn't help her image at all, even more so when later on she whipped the piss out of Ellsworth a couple of times

It's just dumb booking as usual, no different at all really with making Becky Lynch all sorts of aw-shucks good girl Sting-levels of stupid that can't see a backstab coming from a mile away. It's bad enough when they do that to even one performer on a roster so doing it to a killer like Asuka is just unimaginative and sucky.


GodEatGod - 8-13-2018 at 10:43 PM

As long as Brock loses the belt somehow, I don't care. That's literally all I want. The means and the method are inconsequential. The only person I wouldn't want to take the title off of Brock is Hulk Hogan and...yeah, that's not going to happen.


DKBroiler - 8-13-2018 at 11:01 PM

Fair points there Sir Feet of Paddles. Fair points indeed.


CCharger - 8-14-2018 at 12:26 PM

* Roman Reigns vs. Braun Strowman is scheduled for house shows following Summerslam. This fact is leading some to believe that one of the two will be turning heel.

* There's a reported backlash against CM Punk following news that he is being sued by former friend Colt Cabana. He was booed when is name was mentioned in his hometown at an indie show, and there is concern of the reaction at his autograph signing scheduled for All In in Chicago. Cabana will also be appearing at All In, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Punk cancel his appearance.


First 9 - 8-14-2018 at 01:53 PM

I wonder if Cody will go full carny and try to capitalize. Have Cabana beat the fuck out of their team mascot, Bury the Drug Free Bear or if that's too much just have Cabana win the Battle Royal and challenger for the ROH Title right there in Chicago.


CCharger - 8-14-2018 at 03:48 PM

FWIW, Meltzer, along with guys like Cliff Compton and others are placing the blame squarely on Cabana. So while the fans may be on Team Colt, it appears that those closest to the situation are on Team Punk.


First 9 - 8-14-2018 at 05:02 PM

Cliff backing Punk up must hurt since he's one of Colt's friends and seemed to have zero relationship with Punk. If he really thinks Punk is in the right I wonder what happened.


CCharger - 8-14-2018 at 05:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Cliff backing Punk up must hurt since he's one of Colt's friends and seemed to have zero relationship with Punk. If he really thinks Punk is in the right I wonder what happened.

Compton re-tweeted this the day the news of the lawsuit broke:

Today, like never before, I see how the wrestling biz and the notion of “brothers” is changing. I’m floored by desperate moves by desperate people who have no loyalty at all. Complete POS. Complete BS. Total sellout.

— Lou DAngeli (@LDAngeli) August 9, 2018


Flash - 8-14-2018 at 08:43 PM

Any chance all of this is just some new modern meta-type work? I mean all of the ingredients are there...


First 9 - 8-14-2018 at 08:56 PM

It really is a solid story. It's just like The Shield beating Evolution just for Rollins to turn on Ambrose and Reigns the night after.

The two best friends who've had each other backs for over ten years finally overcome the lawsuit and in a sense their last tie with the villanous evil corp that has caused them so much grief just for them to turn on each other. Rigth on the eve of a major event were both might be in the same building.

But no, not even WWE has had the balls to make up real lawsuits to add heat to an angle and they have the resources to put out whatever legal fires that could cause.


Paddlefoot - 8-15-2018 at 04:10 AM

* Ken (Mr. Kennedy) Anderson & former writers Kevin Eck and Freddie Prinze Jr. have all kinda/sorta confirmed Court Bauer's claim that Randy Orton used to pull all sort of "show my dick, shake my hand" jokes on them too when they were employed by WWE

quote:
….would (you) rather shake hands with Randy Orton and risk an appearance by "the little Viper" than listen to a promo from The IIconics? Either way you're probably scarred for life, but at least Orton's naughty handshake won't cause your ears to bleed

- Kevin Eck


* Jerry Lawler is in some kind of conspiracy mode regarding Brian Christopher's death in a Tennessee jail cell, saying that he doesn't believe Brian killed himself; he hasn't accused the local sheriff's office of anything (yet) but going by scuttlebutt from messages sent to him by the other inmates that were in there at the same time as Brian, and by the pictures of the bruising on his neck from the alleged choking with the shoelaces, Jerry is hinting big-time that someone in the jail killed him; the state bureau of investigation is also apparently doing a thorough examination of all the details of Brian's arrest, incarceration, and death, and have asked Jerry to not make any details public just yet

* Jeff Jarrett has filed a large and messy lawsuit against Anthem for copyright infringement (and a whole bunch of other stuff) for using Global Force-related images on recent episodes if Impact Wrestling; apparently Anthem wasn't allowed to use any of that footage after their business relationship with Jarrett & GF came to a permanent end last year


CVD39 - 8-15-2018 at 07:33 AM

So Jerry thinks BC got D’Angelo Barksdale’d? Still wondering if that’s what actually happed to Anthony Bourdain thanks to Harvey Weinstein.


Flash - 8-15-2018 at 07:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
But no, not even WWE has had the balls to make up real lawsuits to add heat to an angle and they have the resources to put out whatever legal fires that could cause.


Has anyone seen a court filed statement of claim between Cabana and Punk though... Or has there just been talk of a lawsuit?

ETA: Okay, did some digging myself and an actual bona fide newspaper (the Chicago Sun Times) aka not a wrestling "newz" site has reported on it, and has stated they have obtained a copy of the statement of claim.

Shame... had it been a work it would have probably been a great one; a little verbal confrontation at All In that leads to a bit of a tussle... just enough to not only sell it as a DVD later but also give them a headline match for an All In II if Punk were to work it.

ETA 2: Here's the statement contained within the article about the suit... a bit mundane, but between the text and Punk's lawyers letter there may be enough there for a "reasonable" person to conclude that their legal fee's would be covered... Maybe not Cabana's own lawyer's fees from when he broke off from Punk, and probably not enough there for all the exemplary and punitive damages, but maybe enough to get him off the hook for what Punk is/was asking for... https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/colt-cabana-cm-punk-contract-legal-fees-lawsuit/

[Edited on 8-15-2018 by Flash]


Paddlefoot - 8-15-2018 at 07:59 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
So Jerry thinks BC got D’Angelo Barksdale’d? Still wondering if that’s what actually happed to Anthony Bourdain thanks to Harvey Weinstein.


Jerry's definitely not thinking straight if he's trusting what the prisoners are saying. Apparently they told him that Brian was fine and yukking it up with them just after he arrived and a few hours later he was dead. If Brian went in high though he would have crashed soon and, as seen with Chris Cornell who was also said to be acting normally the last time anyone spoke to him before he killed himself, when alone could have quite easily formed the intent to harm himself and then followed through on it.

There's probably no real reason why any of the inmates would want to harm Brian, unless he'd had a run-in with some of them elsewhere, and the sheriff certainly wouldn't want the publicity hassle caused by something happening in a cell to even a fallen celeb. I feel bad for the King but he's probably grasping at straws with this and his despair could be being egged on by the jailbirds, or by the usual irresponsibility that the internet provides, if he's doing an amateur detective attempt by himself.


Gobshite - 8-15-2018 at 04:12 PM

Wasn’t Chester Bennington also pictured laughing and joking with his family hours before his suicide?
Robin Williams was just chilling with his wife one evening, then went to a room and strangled himself.

I feel for Jerry, I really do. But claiming that Bryan wasn’t the sort to kill himself etc is the least plausible arguement here. I hope he finds peace with the situation.


Count Zero - 8-15-2018 at 07:45 PM

As somebody who struggles with depression/anxiety and has entertained suicidal thoughts on a number of occasions, I can say with relative (but not complete) confidence that if I -did- kill myself, people would say "oh, I didn't expect that. There were no signs, etc". Some of "us" are good at camouflaging what's going on beneath the surface, and do so for a wide variety of reasons ranging from "I don't want my family to feel my suffering too" to "they'll lock me up if they see how crazy I am, and I don't want that". Those aren't good reasons for hiding it, because people need to be open about the illness in order to get help with the illness, but there are lots of things that people do for not-good reasons and this is another one of those things. Most of the time I cope with the sadness by making jokes/trying to see things from a different perspective (eg. It Could Be Worse/Other People Have Managed To Get Through This). That doesn't mean I'm not depressed, but it makes other people think things that might not be accurate.


Brian Christopher was an entertainer. Maybe he's one of the many such people who kept the act up right until the very end.


Flash - 8-15-2018 at 08:13 PM

My brother in law hung himself in a hospital psych ward while under a suicide watch so I can tell you first hand watching my sister go through the aftermath that it's nothing but questions and blame that you're left with.... How could...? Why did they...? Why didn't they...? If only...? Ect.

I feel for Jerry but ultimately, barring some legitimate as of yet officially uncovered malfeasance, the answers to so many of the questions are going to rest with Brian Christopher, and sadly he isn't around to answer them, which unfortunately just leaves survivors more often than not with just the blame.


CCharger - 8-15-2018 at 08:26 PM

National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Call 1-800-273-8255

Available 24 hours everyday


DKBroiler - 8-15-2018 at 08:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
As somebody who struggles with depression/anxiety and has entertained suicidal thoughts on a number of occasions, I can say with relative (but not complete) confidence that if I -did- kill myself, people would say "oh, I didn't expect that. There were no signs, etc". Some of "us" are good at camouflaging what's going on beneath the surface, and do so for a wide variety of reasons ranging from "I don't want my family to feel my suffering too" to "they'll lock me up if they see how crazy I am, and I don't want that". Those aren't good reasons for hiding it, because people need to be open about the illness in order to get help with the illness, but there are lots of things that people do for not-good reasons and this is another one of those things. Most of the time I cope with the sadness by making jokes/trying to see things from a different perspective (eg. It Could Be Worse/Other People Have Managed To Get Through This). That doesn't mean I'm not depressed, but it makes other people think things that might not be accurate.


Brian Christopher was an entertainer. Maybe he's one of the many such people who kept the act up right until the very end.


We’ve never met but you always seemed like a genuinely good dude. Keep your head up man. It’s been said many times that the funniest people are often the saddest.

We all have low points and I also fall into the no one would ever believe it because I’m always so happy, but it can happen at any time. Just always remember that as long as you’re breathing things can always get better and people actually care about all of us. We all just have a shitty way of not showing it until it’s too late.

Side note: 99.999% of the time I’m chill as hell. 0.001% of the time I can become a raving lunatic capable of anything. The older I get that small percentage gets smaller but it’s still there somewhere. Knowing this about myself I’ve made sure to never be a gun owner. The last thing I need is for 3 seconds of insanity to ruin my or someone else’s life. One of my buddies who is in law enforcement asked me why I didn’t own a gun and I said straight out “because I’d use it”. I’d rather not have that option. If someone is dumb enough to break into my house to steal my 30 inch tv they can have it. If someone wants to test me, they better be a cage fighter. If they got a gun ... well ... they better be ready to use it.


DKBroiler - 8-15-2018 at 08:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Call 1-800-273-8255

Available 24 hours everyday


If you call from Canada they’ll ship you Poutine, a dozen Tim Horton’s K-Cups and a Wayne Gretzky jersey.


CCharger - 8-15-2018 at 09:06 PM

Our buddy David Meltzer is having his very own #MeToo moment:

So what would you have me do Dave... starve myself? 🤯🤯🤯 This is how nightmares for young women start. The females in your life must be proud. https://t.co/8MNpZNsR7m

— Peyton Royce (@PeytonRoyceWWE) August 15, 2018




I'd like to apologize to you. You are an exceedingly attractive woman. I do realize the lengths and pressures on women in the entertainment world to maintain unnatural looks at times and am glad you pointed this out. https://t.co/qkgOrpVQOX

— Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) August 15, 2018



What a true piece of sweltering hot garbage. You’re an angel too good for this earth. He’d be lucky if you gave him the time of day. Which you would, because you’re also a great person. Love ya girl. Let’s set better examples

— Renee Young (@ReneeYoungWWE) August 15, 2018




He's taking massive amounts of fire over his comments about Royce's appearance. At least he made an attempt at apologizing rather than doubling down or getting defensive.


[Edited on 8-15-2018 by CCharger]


Matte - 8-15-2018 at 09:20 PM

I've seen it mentioned that his comment on her being "lighter" in NXT was referring to her implants. Which still isn't a great talking point for him, but could be seen as "better" than meaning that she's gained weight and is less attractive because of that. He's a natural boob kinda guy, I guess.


DKBroiler - 8-15-2018 at 09:32 PM

There is a right and a wrong way to do it. I’m not gonna be bothered enough to listen but if he said, “I think she’d be a better athlete if she lost a few pounds” that’s totally fine. It’s true of many athletes. Being a woman doesn’t preclude you from criticism of you as an athlete.

If he did it like a chauvinist d bag - which sounds like the case - he’s gotta know better these days. This is a perfect example of why I would never want to be famous.


bigfatgoalie - 8-15-2018 at 09:37 PM

Saying the IIconics got boring chants (which is better than crickets) because Peyton changed her appearance disregards the booking, and the abundance of heel female tag teams (Riott Squad, Mandy & Sonya, & IIconics) that are booked mostly as jobbers to the stars.

And to each there own but...really?

Play my game or get left behind. Girl Power! ✌️ 💄@bfabulous1

A post shared by Peyton Royce (@peytonroycewwe) on



A post shared by Peyton Royce (@peytonroycewwe) on



I’m gonna be feeling this workout tomorrow! 💦 thanks @ado_fitness @mishkadawn for your support during my fitness & nutrition journey! So incredibly understanding & encouraging 🙏 time for CARBSSSS 😈😈😈 Check out my story for what i did today! 🍑🍑🍑

A post shared by Peyton Royce (@peytonroycewwe) on


Paddlefoot - 8-15-2018 at 09:42 PM

Good to see Dave finally step on a landmine with one of the talent. Long overdue.

As for the comments, he should have gone all Attitude Era/Dice Clay and replied to Peyton like "there's a misunderstanding here, I didn't say your ass got fat, I said your tits were much bigger". And everybody would be like "oh, that's OK then". Gotta stay on top of things to be taken seriously, Meltz ol' buddy ol' pal. Not gonna make it in this business if you don't.


First 9 - 8-15-2018 at 10:19 PM

Eh, I think the guy is taking too much heat for nothing. The quote was out of context and he immediately apologized. Shit he was even talking about Cena's change in physique before moving to Peyton's boob job and tan.

Also, anybody thinking this is the end for him is forgetting last year when he went fucking rabid with the Mauro story stating WWE was trying to silence him, how Vince and Lawler were indirectly calling Mauro mentally retarded, picked a fight with Coachman and was flat out trying to get JBL fired all without any proof and... nothing happened. WWE is still civil with him as he still is free to call their PR department for scoops and confirming facts, those outside WWE treat him the same, and Chris fucking Jericho was saying it's so cool that he got an ''acclaimed'' five star rating from him.


Paddlefoot - 8-15-2018 at 10:28 PM

The fan comments were even better, just as expected, with things like "Peyton's fine, it's Billy Kay that looks like a meat-faced tranny". Oh, IWC marks & smarks & shit-heart sk8rbois & lowlifes-in-general, never change who you are. You bring purpose to my life.


bigfatgoalie - 8-15-2018 at 11:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Eh, I think the guy is taking too much heat for nothing. The quote was out of context and he immediately apologized. Shit he was even talking about Cena's change in physique before moving to Peyton's boob job and tan.


In the provided audio he was talking about NXT folks having issues when called up, and transitioned to talking Iiconics, where he immediately suggests Peyton's changes to her appearance were the reason for their issues.

First...what context am I missing?

2nd...there's a bunch of examples of NXT guys and gals getting brought up, and becoming just another face. Or just another heel. Mostly just another heel. Why you'd put it out there at all that it was an appearance change and not just more of the same old shit is completely stupid.

Will he suffer from it? Probably not. Fuck, I'm sure there will be people giving him more support to counter the SJW man hating agenda.

Doesn't change how colossally stupid it was.


First 9 - 8-15-2018 at 11:39 PM

Which is my point, it was stupid and ill-thought off but not meaning to be malicious and derogative. He was trying to paint a picture about the evil management in charge of the main roster and how they force people to fit a certain mold which negatively affects the talent while NTX is less like that and he was trying to use Peyton as an example and boy oh boy did he phrase it bad.


But it was an accidental offense and he apologized asap, so it's not really a big deal imo.

[Edited on 8-15-2018 by First 9]


DevilSoprano - 8-16-2018 at 12:16 AM

Bullshit it wasn't meant to be malicious and derogatory.


Matte - 8-16-2018 at 12:28 AM

Is this an acceptable apology these days or is what he said unforgivable?


Paddlefoot - 8-16-2018 at 01:40 AM

The apology is great. Dave clearly though wildly underestimated how sensitive even incredibly fit and athletic women are to any sort of perceived body-shaming. If he'd said the same thing about any of the male performers ("Killian Dain is so big around the middle he looks like he ate an entire Hobbit village") no one would have cared. Say the same thing about a female though and it's almost as bad as being recorded using the N-word. This one will blow over because it's not like a Weinstein or Hogan situation but Meltzer will have to take his lumps for a few days or so. Or maybe even for a full month, because there's a 50/50 chance that plans might change...



[Edited on 8/16/2018 by Paddlefoot]


GodEatGod - 8-16-2018 at 02:19 AM

I think the apology is pretty good. I also think getting dragged for a couple of days on Twitter isn't exactly the death penalty so I'm not really crying for Dave either. He fucked up, he'll pay the price, everybody'll move on. I do think he's becoming less relevant, but ain't we all?


Accipiter - 8-16-2018 at 02:59 AM

He's right. Eventually, everything will be equal, but right now it's not. Peyton got boob implants which I think look like crap. Why did she get implants? Does it help her lift opponents higher? Nope, its for looks.

Remember Buff Bagwell and his calf implants....we can make fun of that because he's a man, but we can't make fun of a woman's implants??????


CamstunPWG187 - 8-16-2018 at 03:20 AM

“What’s this whole “white-knighting” thing everyones talking about, Jim?!”

-Dr. Johnson


the goon - 8-16-2018 at 03:49 AM

On a non-Meltzer note, AJ Styles has officially surpassed JBL as the longest-reigning WWE champion in Smackdown history, at 281 days. A few thoughts on that:

-Not that it will happen in a million years (especially with the current brand split), but the WWE could really build to something special in a Lesnar/AJ rematch, given the lengths of each guy's title reign. If you put both belts on the line, the guy who's held the Universal title for 500+ days vs the guy who's held the WWE title for 281+ days would be pretty huge.

-The WWE and Universal titles haven't changed hands once in 2018, which is pretty crazy given that it's August.

-There have been only two WWE champions in the past 15 months: Jinder Mahal (ugh) and AJ Styles.

-I think this makes SummerSlam all the more intriguing, as you could see one or both long-ass title reigns come to an end on Sunday.


williamssl - 8-16-2018 at 03:54 AM

....or we see a Survior Series rematch


royberto - 8-16-2018 at 04:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Is this an acceptable apology these days or is what he said unforgivable?


Wow, what an asshole. His "apology" is full of excuses. It's funny how Hogan has been making that type of "apology" and still saying it isn't a real one while Dave is being lauded. Screw him.

[Edited on 8-16-2018 by royberto]


Flash - 8-16-2018 at 06:20 AM

Meh... Meltzer's probably inked tens of thousands of pages worth of bird cage liner and has probably spewed just as many hours talking about wrestling... Along the way he's bound to have said something dumb... well, dumb of the unintentional variety anyway as opposed to his usual drivel.

He apologized. Once upon a time that was the penalty for saying something dumb and then everyone moving on... Now unless there's some kind of public self castration and banishment for a year or two there's no longer letting bygones being bygones over words.

He's not my favourite by any stretch, but sometimes it's worth giving people the same benefit of the doubt that we in turn would like to get if we were to ever step in the caca (the plank in our own eye and all that...); he misspoke, was misunderstood, or just plain said something quasi-offensive (Wrestling is a business where as much as talent and push do dictate success, so too does aesthetics at least in part... thus a delicate discussion of both men and women's looks is occasionally warranted)... He then apologized...

Case closed as far as I'm concerned.


Flash - 8-16-2018 at 06:27 AM

quote:
Originally posted by the goon
I think this makes SummerSlam all the more intriguing, as you could see one or both long-ass title reigns come to an end on Sunday.


I think given Vince-think in big match situations I doubt we'll see both titles switch hands as he seems to like having these "moments" resonate... Which may actually wind up being a bit of a tell as to what the finish might be if AJ goes on earlier and drops the title then odds are Brock retains... On the flip side I think if Styles retains then we'll definitely see Brock drop the title in a big fashion.

Of course as always, it's wrestling so anything can happen...


Paddlefoot - 8-16-2018 at 07:08 AM

It's still fun to see Meltz get egg on his face every once in a while. Seth Rollins tweeted "that's a minus-6 star match, Dave at him". Good for a harmless laff or two given how seriously Meltzer and Alvarez take themselves.


royberto - 8-16-2018 at 12:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash


He's not my favourite by any stretch, but sometimes it's worth giving people the same benefit of the doubt that we in turn would like to get if we were to ever step in the caca (the plank in our own eye and all that...); he misspoke, was misunderstood, or just plain said something quasi-offensive (Wrestling is a business where as much as talent and push do dictate success, so too does aesthetics at least in part... thus a delicate discussion of both men and women's looks is occasionally warranted)... He then apologized...
Execpt this was far from the first time he has done something like this:

https://medium.com/@jakenazar/dave-meltzers-troubling-history-with-women-in-wrestling-1e96d9e678d5

This is the guy who publicly named a rape victim,
Shit on a allegation of domestic abuse towards Japanese wrestler Tomaki Honma by saying "It's women. What can I say?",
and says this about Bayley:

Different character, can only play big sister when you look like big sister, not when you look like mom's friends. https://t.co/GFjf1qqGxd

— Dave Meltzer (@davemeltzerWON) June 23, 2016



He is a complete piece of shit. Period.


royberto - 8-16-2018 at 01:55 PM

Just posted on ESPN's front page something nobody could ever say they saw coming: an article about inter-gender wrestling:

http://www.espn.com/espnw/feature/24364018/intergender-wrestling-equality-women-violence-them?addata=espn:frontpage

Surprisingly, ESPN puts it's SJW crap aside and actually shows it in a positive light, why it isn't domestic violence, how it differs from domestic violence, and even had a director of a domestic violence womens group saying she saw no domestic violence in it. ESPN being positive about intergender wrestling? Who would have thunk it?


[Edited on 8-16-2018 by royberto]


Accipiter - 8-16-2018 at 05:28 PM

Women are equal to men.

They should be able to fight men, to beat men, and be beat by men.

The only time I really marked out in the past five years was when Rousey slamed HHH. It marked one of the first times a woman was portrayed as better than a top performing man, in any major athletic arena.


Dyn-O-Mite - 8-16-2018 at 06:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Accipiter
He's right. Eventually, everything will be equal, but right now it's not. Peyton got boob implants which I think look like crap. Why did she get implants? Does it help her lift opponents higher? Nope, its for looks.

Remember Buff Bagwell and his calf implants....we can make fun of that because he's a man, but we can't make fun of a woman's implants??????


First, and most importantly, he's several levels below "right."

And, as to your final question: no, we can't. If we go through a looooong period of time when men and women are treated equally across all levels of humanity: go for it.

Until then, I'd say men have had it pretty good compared to women over time, so yeah, for now, women can have the "benefit" of this "inequity."

No comments on Meltzer. It's all been said, and there's a reason why I've never actively consumed any of his content. Peeps are pretty good around here curating the information that's actually worth reading.


GodEatGod - 8-16-2018 at 10:09 PM

Also: there's a significant difference between a man's calves and a woman's breasts, I think we can all agree on that. Buff getting calf implants was stupid because...why? What benefit could it have? Who gives a shit what his calves look like? It was an act of petty and ill-thought vanity from a guy who radiated...petty and ill-thought vanity. It was very on-brand.

A woman wrestler getting breast implants is something that has been pretty directly tied to the way they're treated, by audience and management alike. There's less of that these days, thankfully, but I'm sure it still matters and, when your career success is almost entirely based on being noticed by the boss and getting a reaction from the crowd, a woman might feel very pressured to do whatever she can to get that attention.

And when a man with a loud voice in your industry goes out of his way to talk shit about you and your appearance, yeah, it's going to piss you off and it's likely going to piss off your friends and, if you have decent fans, probably them, too.

It's not hard. It's called context. Men and women are equal, yes, but they haven't been treated equally and the idea that we just declare sexism is over, that's that, problem solved, is silly.


CCharger - 8-16-2018 at 11:35 PM

* Brock Lesnar, Vince, and StepHHH are scheduled for a "closed door meeting" prior to the start of SummerSlam. Brock wants to work for both WWE and UFC, Vince wants more dates out of Brock. Also, the finish to the Lesnar/Reigns match will be decided in that meeting. If no agreement can be made, Brock will drop the title. If an agreement is reached, Brock will retain.


First 9 - 8-16-2018 at 11:46 PM

I might start to feel some sympathy for Roman just because he might be the worst booked ''top guy'' ever. He loses, doesn't own up to the losses, then losses again, he's a bitch. If he loses sme change has to be coming for his character.

If you're wondering who'd I put in second place for worst booked top guy it'd be Bret Hart for having what was supposed to be his defining title run as face of the company end by losing to a past his prime Bob Backlund.


bigfatgoalie - 8-17-2018 at 12:04 AM

Bret over Mr Lex Express? That’s a bold strategy cotton.


Count Zero - 8-17-2018 at 12:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline

Call 1-800-273-8255

Available 24 hours everyday


If you call from Canada they’ll ship you Poutine, a dozen Tim Horton’s K-Cups and a Wayne Gretzky jersey.
This made me chuckle.

And as a general response to the sympathy expressed (and so I don't derail things too much further), I'm doing okay most of the time, and getting the help I avoided getting for so long. I don't want anybody to think I'm going away soon (unless the doctors find a nice padded room for me); I just thought I'd (hopefully) shine some light into a very dark corner.

Believe it or not, this place actually helps keep me sane, or something quasi-resembling sanity. Except 'Berto. He could drive anybody nuts. (I couldn't help myself.)


royberto - 8-17-2018 at 03:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
sanity. Except 'Berto. He could drive anybody nuts. (I couldn't help myself.)
Pot calling the kettle black.


First 9 - 8-17-2018 at 04:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Bret over Mr Lex Express? That’s a bold strategy cotton.


I think of Lex more like 04 Orton. WWE wanted him to be a top guy but pumped the brakes when they saw it wasn't working. Only that WWE lost Lex a year later while they got something out of Orton as the #2/#3 guy.


janerd75 - 8-17-2018 at 09:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by royberto
quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
sanity. Except 'Berto. He could drive anybody nuts. (I couldn't help myself.)
Pot calling the kettle black.


BAH GAWD!!! HE KILLED' IM!!!

'BERTO THAT SONOFABITCH!!!



Also, for what it's worth, I think Peyton Royceses NuTiddies are quite nice. Wait, shit, was it her or Billie Kay that got the new bolt-ons everyone's whinging abOOt? I dunno, all these broads whut got shot in the face with Homer's makeup gun look the same to me anyways.

#icOOnic


royberto - 8-17-2018 at 01:45 PM

*According to 'Ol Davey Boy, WWE is again looking to do the Four Horsewomen vs. Four Horsewomen match at the Survivor Series pay-per-view event.


CCharger - 8-17-2018 at 02:29 PM

* Rumor is that Dean Ambrose will be turning heel very soon - perhaps at SummerSlam

* WWE is still planning a talent raid on New Japan and ROH with the idea of signing their top talent and then hiding them on NXT


SpiNNeR72 - 8-17-2018 at 02:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGodIt's not hard. It's called context. Men and women are equal, yes, but they haven't been treated equally and the idea that we just declare sexism is over, that's that, problem solved, is silly.


The problem is that true equality is based on a respectful degree of "sexism" because men and women are not the same. Thats how you tell identical twins apart. Julie paints her nails blue..

... and Fred has a cock.




Enough of that though - I stick by my thought that Owens is leaving Summerslam with the title through a cash in following a slobberknocker which ends with a sports entertainment clusterfuck.

It feeds into the advertised HIAC matches and just makes sense as a way to get the belt off Lesnar without the big negative reaction to Reigns.

Unless of course Lesnar agrees to stay. Which my be the way to actually get Reigns over, Eventually, even the smarks wil get fed up with him getting fucked over by the booking and start rooting for him.

The "talent raid news" is odd - they have been doing that for years now


DKBroiler - 8-17-2018 at 02:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by royberto
*According to 'Ol Davey Boy, WWE is again looking to do the Four Horsewomen vs. Four Horsewomen match at the Survivor Series pay-per-view event.


This has been reported by many people but it does beg the question on who the faces and heels would be.

As it stands right now ...

Charlotte (Face but leaning tweener/heel)
Becky (100% Face)
Bayley (100% annoying but 100% Face)
Sasha (As lady HBK she will always be able to instantly turn heel or face)
Ronda (100% Face, a cash cow, and at this juncture would be mind bendingly stupid to turn heel)
Shayna (I only watch takeovers but aside from Ciampa she was the biggest heel on the program so I’ll assume she’s still a heel)
MMA4HW #s 3 and 4 (Have they even debuted)

I’m starting to think that the WWE women would be better served as the heels but what to do with Shayna? We’ve had weird looking faces many times but “chick who curb stomps opponents elbows while shit talking them” isn’t really a face recipe. In fact she is one of the best opponents for Ronda long term so it’s a bit of a head scratcher.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-17-2018 at 02:59 PM

God dammit...


DKBroiler - 8-17-2018 at 02:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGodIt's not hard. It's called context. Men and women are equal, yes, but they haven't been treated equally and the idea that we just declare sexism is over, that's that, problem solved, is silly.


The problem is that true equality is based on a respectful degree of "sexism" because men and women are not the same. Thats how you tell identical twins apart. Julie paints her nails blue..

... and Fred has a cock.




Enough of that though - I stick by my thought that Owens is leaving Summerslam with the title through a cash in following a slobberknocker which ends with a sports entertainment clusterfuck.

It feeds into the advertised HIAC matches and just makes sense as a way to get the belt off Lesnar without the big negative reaction to Reigns.

Unless of course Lesnar agrees to stay. Which my be the way to actually get Reigns over, Eventually, even the smarks wil get fed up with him getting fucked over by the booking and start rooting for him.

The "talent raid news" is odd - they have been doing that for years now


I’m predicting that WWE goes full retard and keeps it on Brock. I’ll double predict that we get one more Brock match this fall at Night of Champions where AJ gets a rematch by putting his WWE Championship on the line ... and Brock wins that.

He’s fighting Cormier with ALL the titles. Cormier destroys him in about 8 minutes.

Brock will then face the winner of the Royal Rumble at Mania ... and win.

He’ll stay gone until next SummerSlam where he finally drops all the championships to the debuting Daniel Cormier.


Planet Starbucks - 8-17-2018 at 02:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
Unless of course Lesnar agrees to stay. Which my be the way to actually get Reigns over, Eventually, even the smarks wil get fed up with him getting fucked over by the booking and start rooting for him.


I wish I wasn't 37 going on 87 and knew how to embed the Dean Ambrose 'Nope' gif.


DKBroiler - 8-17-2018 at 03:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Planet Starbucks
quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
Unless of course Lesnar agrees to stay. Which my be the way to actually get Reigns over, Eventually, even the smarks wil get fed up with him getting fucked over by the booking and start rooting for him.


I wish I wasn't 37 going on 87 and knew how to embed the Dean Ambrose 'Nope' gif.


Somehow I kind of agree with you both. Roman is already past the worst of it. While he hasn’t exactly reached the John Cena US Championship Open Challenge Level of reluctance smark acceptance, he’s definitely more accepted than he was a few years ago.

The problem isn’t Roman. Hell, it really isn’t Brock either. It’s Roman AND Brock. People are tired as fuck of that. They act like this is the 4th time in 4 years but really it’s like the 7th if you include multi-man matches.

People just want to see something different and if you add in the name Undertaker to these two it’s essentially been one form or another of these 3 for years ... add in Cena ... well fuck. Add in HHH ... goddamnit. The same 5 guys have occupied this spot for the last 5 years.


SpiNNeR72 - 8-17-2018 at 07:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by royberto
*According to 'Ol Davey Boy, WWE is again looking to do the Four Horsewomen vs. Four Horsewomen match at the Survivor Series pay-per-view event.


This has been reported by many people but it does beg the question on who the faces and heels would be.




You're spot on with that, which I why I suspect that if they go for it, they just play it as a one off attraction. No need for storylines to make it all make sense. Bazler can easily be the moody dangerous one, we all know the MMA girls are linked so its not a stretch.

Less focus on heel/face and just rolling with it would work just fine.

t also increases the chances of Alexa and Carmella retaining on sunday so its all good


anglefan85 - 8-18-2018 at 12:14 AM

quote:
Hogan’s version of events, presented on the first episode of legendary wrestling reporter Bill Apter’s new show The Apter Chat, includes multiple things we’ve heard before from the 65 year old, as well as several remarks which sound addressed to O’Neil, Kingston and others who didn’t welcome him back.

When Triple H and Vince McMahon spoke to him about returning to WWE, Hogan says they wanted him to address only the black wrestlers on the roster. He says he insisted on speaking to everyone. Hulk said he had “never been that nervous before in my life talking to a group of my peers” and had two “trains of thought”:

To say he was sorry and be accountable, while repeatedly mentioning that the tape was made “12 years” ago and he “didn’t even remember they [his words] were said until three years ago, cause that’s when they came out” and that his comments were “out of character” and made in “a fit of anger”.
Emphasize that in a company like WWE, every mistake a performer makes will be amplified, no matter how small - “don’t even slip on a banana peel” because “people have cell phones and cameras and just be careful”.


“A lot of people accepted my apology. And a lot of people heard what they wanted to hear and a lot of the narrative that came out of the meeting was on point. A lot of the narrative was really different because I was surprised to hear some people interpreted what I said that I was just sorry I got caught on camera, whatever they interpreted, but I never said that.

But I guess sometimes the media and people go with the most negative narrative that can come out of there.”


“I said those words, it was totally unacceptable and I just really wanted to get in front of all the talent and apologize because I know I hurt this business and I just want to move forward.

I just hope the brotherhood can get back to the way it was. Because when you’re in the ring and somebody’s bodyslaming somebody or piledriving somebody, you protect your brother and you make sure physically they’re safe. And outside the ring, you’re supposed to protect your brother.

In this case, it’s a situation where 75, 80, 90 percent of the wrestlers are protecting me and they’re giving me another chance to move forward. There’s just a few wrestlers that kind of like don’t understand the bond and the brotherhood of wrestling, and hey, if someone makes a mistake, you need to forgive them and move on and try to let them prove themselves. I just feel that I wish I could have one-on-one conversations with people who really don’t know me and try to maybe explain myself better.”

www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2018/8/17/17720182/hulk-hogan-wwe-stars-who-didnt-accept-apology-dont-understand-the-brotherhood-of-wrestling


Alright, two things here:

1) "If someone makes a mistake, you need to forgive them and move on and try to let them prove themselves."

While this is true, he had years to do that and he has yet to actually do that. Forgiveness, like respect, is something that you earn, and not something that you're owed. And he can't exactly just expect people to just "move on" after the shit that he was saying in that video. He made perfectly clear the kinda guy that he is.

2) I love he has the nerve to talk about how wrestling is a brotherhood, but he's the same dude that told Vince that Jesse Ventura was trying to get a wrestlers' union together in the 80s.


Count Zero - 8-18-2018 at 01:36 AM

meh, it's not even worth it.

[Edited on 8-18-2018 by Count Zero]


royberto - 8-18-2018 at 03:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I’m starting to think that the WWE women would be better served as the heels but what to do with Shayna? We’ve had weird looking faces many times but “chick who curb stomps opponents elbows while shit talking them” isn’t really a face recipe. In fact she is one of the best opponents for Ronda long term so it’s a bit of a head scratcher.
Shayna could be a tweener in that you sow the seeds for a future feud with Ronda getting all the spotlight while Shayna is forced to stand in the back despite having been NXT champion and having to work for everything she is got. You could have her either walk out on the match at some point or Shanya refuses to tag Ronda in. However you do it, seeds of dissention for later.


Flash - 8-18-2018 at 06:15 AM

*Sasha Banks recently made a comment about 2019's Summer Slam being held in L.A., but apparently this was shot down by the WWE... While no announcements have been made Toronto is being said to be the odds on favourite. Toronto previously hosted Wrestlemania's VI and 18, along with some of the highest drawing Raw's in company history (46k) back in the attitude era. If true it will be curious to see if they go back to the Skydome (now the Rogers Centre) and try and fill it WrestleMania style, just run with the Air Canada Centre (about 18k for hockey) where they normally do Raw's, or maybe try something like the much newer BMO field which is expandable to about 40k for soccer, so you'd have on field seating over and above that.

*No finalist for WrestleMania 36 location yet, but Jacksonville, Atlanta, and Minneapolis are all rumoured contenders... Minnesota is said to be the front runner.

*Shinsuke Nakamura has commented on rumours about him going back to NJPW; basically he said that moving his whole family to the USA was a big decision so he's committed to staying with the WWE for the long run. While they'll look at things monetarily when the time comes he's hoping to resign for a few more years.

*Daniel Bryan and the WWE are said to be close to finalizing his contract extension; The lengthy hold up was negotiating over how many house show dates he would work as he is said to be keen on being at home for as many weekends to be closer to his daughter as he can be.

*Rey Mysterio and the WWE are said to be in talks; this is why he pulled out of a indie show recently, but is said to still be committed to All In and another indie show the next day. Given that he pulled out of a wrestling match odds are this is more than just a legends deal.

*The time table for Jason Jordan's return still seems to be up in the air as his recovery from neck surgery hasn't gone as well as expected. I seem to remember a lot of doom and gloom about his surgery several months ago as well, but then Jordan's wife weighed in and said it wasn't that bad. It's said that Jordan is shadowing WWE producers as a way to learn another part of the business in case things don't work out for him.

*Tye Dillinger took a kick to the face from Shelton Benjamin during a house show which was said to have knocked him out. He missed the next day's house show and his current status is unknown.

*Davey Boy Smith Jr. was on X-pac's podcast recently and commented on all the recent Owen going into the HOF drama lately; He said he'd be in favour of Owen going in, but with Martha's feelings being what they are he doesn't see it happening. He opined that maybe if they donated any related profits from the HOF to the Owen Hart foundation it might make her a bit more open to it, but he also said who knows...


royberto - 8-18-2018 at 12:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
It also increases the chances of Alexa and Carmella retaining on sunday so its all good
They have Hell in the Cell, THe AUstralia Supershow, and WWE Evolution in between. That proposed Survvior Series match does nothing to the chances that Alexa and Carmella retain Sunday . As it is Ronda, WILL win the belt at one of those shows. It's only a matter of which one they choose.


Katie Vick killer - 8-19-2018 at 01:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
*Sasha Banks recently made a comment about 2019's Summer Slam being held in L.A., but apparently this was shot down by the WWE... While no announcements have been made Toronto is being said to be the odds on favourite. Toronto previously hosted Wrestlemania's VI and 18, along with some of the highest drawing Raw's in company history (46k) back in the attitude era. If true it will be curious to see if they go back to the Skydome (now the Rogers Centre) and try and fill it WrestleMania style, just run with the Air Canada Centre (about 18k for hockey) where they normally do Raw's, or maybe try something like the much newer BMO field which is expandable to about 40k for soccer, so you'd have on field seating over and above that.



Will Takeover at Mania next year be called TakeOver: Brooklyn 5 (as it'll be held at Barclays)? I just associate the Takeover Brooklyn with Summerslam at this point.

Say the E do choose Toronto, will it be a residence style deal and run it there for a few years as they have done with LA prior and now Brooklyn?


royberto - 8-19-2018 at 02:06 AM

WWE has announced the first match for WWE EVolution:

JUST ANNOUNCED: #RAW #WomensChampion @AlexaBliss_WWE will go one-on-one with @trishstratuscom at #WWEEvolution on Sunday, October 28! https://t.co/QEgzozBy04

— WWE (@WWE) August 19, 2018




Alexa is definitely losing the title at some point. Have fun jobbing to the dwarf Trish!


bigfatgoalie - 8-19-2018 at 03:14 AM

WWE has announced the first match for WWE Evolution:

JUST ANNOUNCED: #RAW #WomensChampion @AlexaBliss_WWE will go one-on-one with @trishstratuscom at #WWEEvolution on Sunday, October 28! https://t.co/QEgzozBy04

— WWE (@WWE) August 19, 2018




This interests me vastly. I also think there are a lot of ways to go.

It works as a special attraction match. And both Trish or Alexa is believable winning, and neither would be hurt by a lose. Hell, Alexa beating Trish the Hall of Famer, and the woman whose record of title reigns she is chasing is a very compelling story.

If the WWE is running a Horsewoman vs Horsewoman tag match, you kinda need somebody else to compete for the RAW and SmackDown titles. Trish would work for one of those matches. And hell...maybe a mini run as champ for Trish? She's looked good whenever she's come back.

Same if the WWE is doing a women's tag tournament. Trish could do spot duty as a challenger.

One thought I had during Takeover...they may use Shayna in the role many of us thought they were giving Nattie and have Baszler cause Bliss to win at SummerSlam.

Either way, title or no title, I'm sold on this match.


Paddlefoot - 8-19-2018 at 03:29 AM

How about instead they have Trish Stratus in the JJ Dillon role guiding the WWE Horsewomen to cheaty victory? Yassssss……

Gotta piss Sasha Banks off though with Alexa getting the opportunity considering Sasha said today in an interview that her dream match for Evolution would be one against Trish. Like she didn't legit dislike Alexa enough already.

[Edited on 8/19/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Flash - 8-19-2018 at 07:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Katie Vick killer
Will Takeover at Mania next year be called TakeOver: Brooklyn 5 (as it'll be held at Barclays)? I just associate the Takeover Brooklyn with Summerslam at this point.

Say the E do choose Toronto, will it be a residence style deal and run it there for a few years as they have done with LA prior and now Brooklyn?


I doubt it; The WWE doesn't really seem to like Canada for PPV's, and doesn't tour here anywhere near the amount that they did in the 90's... For example since 1995 when they moved to monthly PPV's they've only done 12 PPV's from Canada in total, sometimes with several years in between appearances.

Doing the Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal corridor was a favourite for the WWE once upon a time with house shows in neighbouring cities like Hamilton and London along the way... While they still do that sometimes the last time they were around for an extended stretch they just posted up in Toronto at the Air Canada Centre for an NXT show, followed by Raw and Smackdown the last time through. While a popular attraction and generally a good crowd (I don't think sell outs though... I got a floor seat five rows from the ring the day of for Raw) there's probably a chance for burn out if they hit this area too often... The greater Toronto area is about 6.5 million, with another million plus within an hour or so's drive, so you've got a pretty intense base there that if they don't show up you're going to miss out big.

Throw in the poor Canadian dollar right now (about $0.73 US) and they've gotta charge more just to make the same... So probably good for the odd guest attraction spot or doing Raw here, but unlikely in my opinion to be a multi-year stop for Summer Slam.

For what it's worth when I was looking up the PPV's from Canada someone has already updated wikipedia as Toronto hosting the 2019 Summer Slam... Yeah it's Wikipedia, but interesting that the story is out there beyond just wrestling rumour websites.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-19-2018 at 07:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
WWE has announced the first match for WWE Evolution:

JUST ANNOUNCED: #RAW #WomensChampion @AlexaBliss_WWE will go one-on-one with @trishstratuscom at #WWEEvolution on Sunday, October 28! https://t.co/QEgzozBy04

— WWE (@WWE) August 19, 2018




.


Huge match. Will watch this show strictly because of this.

Thanks for reporting, BFG


bigfatgoalie - 8-19-2018 at 09:56 PM

More Evolution rumours....

The main event will be Ronda vs Nikki Bella.


Paddlefoot - 8-19-2018 at 10:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
Thanks for reporting, BFG


Well played.


Count Zero - 8-20-2018 at 06:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187

Huge match. Will watch this show strictly because of this.

Thanks for reporting, BFG
Took me a minute to get..... IT.

Can this get nominated for POTY without context? Or is that too subtle/meta? Regardless, it's icOOnic.


Paddlefoot - 8-21-2018 at 06:11 AM

* looks like perpetually-unlucky Erick Rowan won the "which Bludgeon Bro will get long-term injured again first contest?" because reports today are saying he injured his arm at Summerslam on Sunday; looks like some kind of bicep problem and he wasn't able to compete at a Smackdown live event on Monday; there's a re-match against New Day for the tag titles scheduled for SD tonight which could indicate that the BB's are going to be dropping the straps as a result of the injury


nOOb - 8-21-2018 at 09:23 AM

Man, I can’t wait for them to not use Luke Harper properly again. It’s been, what, a year since the last time?


Flash - 8-21-2018 at 11:04 AM

They should give Harper a nice little push (maybe a filler spot against Styles for a month); just enough to level him up a bit so that he's seen as more of a singles threat... With Kane down to probably making just guest appearances by this point I think he could settle really nice into that Kane spot... The gateway guy up the card, or that first feud after a title win.

Either that, if they wanted to form a new faction of some kind you could do a lot worse for your lieutenant/mid-card title guy.


CCharger - 8-21-2018 at 01:01 PM

* The awkward and abrupt ending to the Strowman/Owens match was due to Owens suffering a concussion mid-match and them having to finish the match sooner than planned

* Expect a monster push for the re-united SHIELD. After winning their feud against Ziggler/McIntyre, Rollins and Ambrose are in line to win the RAW tag titles. That would put the SHIELD in control of the Universal, IC, and Tag Titles.

*There is apparently a bit of heat on Velveteen Dream for puting "Call Me Up, Vince" on his tights. Because having fun is verboden in WWE apparently.

ETA:

* Apparently the closed door meeting with Brock and Vince and StepHHH went "poorly". Lesnar refused to give Vince any more dates, and Vince refused to allow Brock to fight regularly for the UFC. So, Vince told Brock he was dropping the belt to Reigns. There were words exchanged after the main event because Brock had his shoulder up during the final 3 count which Vince believed was intentional to make the loss look less clean. Brock, despite being scheduled for RAW, immediately boarded a plane and flew home. It appears unlikely that we will see Lesnar in a WWE any time soon.



[Edited on 8-21-2018 by CCharger]


First 9 - 8-21-2018 at 01:58 PM

The Dream rumors seem to be BS as it came from the same guy who said Asuka wanted to leave.


anglefan85 - 8-21-2018 at 03:54 PM

Not shocked in the slightest about Owens having a concussion. He splatted on the ramp and you could clearly see his head snap back on the landing.


Matte - 8-21-2018 at 05:52 PM

Not entirely sure where to put this. Is the NXT UK division being included in general NXT talk even though it's kind of a separate entity? I'll just throw it into this thread for now...


https://www.wwe.com/shows/wwenxt/article/first-nxt-uk-womens-to-be-crowned-at-birmingham-live-event

The first NXT UK Women's Champion to be crowned at NXT UK tapings this weekend in Birmingham

A two-day tournament will determine the first-ever NXT UK Women’s Champion this Saturday and Sunday at the NXT UK tapings at Insomnia, the U.K.’s biggest gaming festival, at NEC Birmingham. The combatants battling to become the inaugural champion will include Toni Storm, Jinny, Isla Dawn, Millie McKenzie, Nina Samuels, Dakota Kai, Rhea Ripley and Xia Brookside.


DKBroiler - 8-21-2018 at 06:54 PM

Is this going to be how things line up in 5 years?

Major Leagues: Raw and SD
AAA: NXT Florida
AA: NXT UK, NXT Japan, NXT India, NXT Mexico
A: Top Independents like ROH, New Japan


TownOfDalem - 8-21-2018 at 07:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Is this going to be how things line up in 5 years?

Major Leagues: Raw and SD
AAA: NXT Florida
AA: NXT UK, NXT Japan, NXT India, NXT Mexico
A: Top Independents like ROH, New Japan


I hope so.


Cherokee Jack - 8-21-2018 at 07:45 PM

I think New Japan and ROH (and their top guys) would likely disagree with that assessment. Maybe put the indies that have working relationships with WWE like Evolve, Progress etc in that spot. ROH and NJPW would be closer to AAA level than anything else


DKBroiler - 8-21-2018 at 08:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
I think New Japan and ROH (and their top guys) would likely disagree with that assessment. Maybe put the indies that have working relationships with WWE like Evolve, Progress etc in that spot. ROH and NJPW would be closer to AAA level than anything else


I was waiting for that. I think the quick answer to that is that despite some “top guys” having issue, recent history has shown that 99% of people still start out no higher than NXT Florida. From what I’ve heard Shinsuke and Balor were huge stars and they did their tour. Adam Cole is great and he’s doing one too.

Only AJ got to avoid NXT ... not even Samoa Joe avoided it. Of all of the outside stars I think the only one with a plausible shot of avoiding NXT Florida entirely would be Kenny Omega. Cody doesn’t count.

The “top guys” might view themselves as higher than NXT, but if they accept the WWE money chances are significantly higher that they will do a year or two in NXT then simply debut on Raw or Smackdown.

Edit: Off the top of my head is there any person out there other than Omega who is both a main event level prospect and speaks English fluently? I know the guys Omega has worked with are all hailed as amazing, but Nakamura and Asuka had to do significant stretches in NXT obviously to help get them acclimated to a totally different culture.

I just doubt that - other than Omega - there are any WWE prospects out there who don’t need a bit of seasoning. Hell, McIntyer is already main eventing Raw every other week, was a previous employee, and they still made him do it.

[Edited on 8-21-2018 by DKBroiler]


DKBroiler - 8-21-2018 at 08:36 PM

One more thing ... there is a serious roster crunch in WWE right now. They have done such a remarkable job of developing (stolen) talent the last 5 years that unless you’re a 10 year WWE jobber, you’re just not getting on Raw or Smackdown without a ton of talent or upside.

Sure there have been misses but most of them were at the No Way Jose level. Even guys like Nakamura - who might never achieve what many thought he would - are still no worse than good. Even the guys people hate, like Corbin, have obvious upside. There are just way fewer Chris Masters running around in 2018 then ever before in WWE.

I point this out because NXT currently has 10 different guys with either the charisma of a young Jericho or the in ring skills of a young Benoit (hopefully minus the murdering) and it’s going to get harder every year to even make WWE’s AAA, let alone skip it entirely.

How many Indy guys can you say today should leap frog Adam Cole, Ricochet, Roddy, O’Reilly, Brate, Gargano, Ciampa, Black, Dream and a few others who couldn’t even make Takeover? Weren’t most of those guys main eventing the ROH’s and such 2 years ago?

Anyway, all of this is why I do not view ROH (the top American Indy from what I’ve read on here) as above NXT Florida.


CCharger - 8-21-2018 at 10:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Is this going to be how things line up in 5 years?

Major Leagues: Raw and SD
AAA: NXT Florida
AA: NXT UK, NXT Japan, NXT India, NXT Mexico
A: Top Independents like ROH, New Japan


So what you are actually wishing for in five years is this:

1. WWE
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Independent and Japanese wrestling

I mean, ok...I guess.

Personally, I'd prefer a scenario where NJPW has a strong presence on American TV and tours here regularly and several thriving, large independent promotions like Impact, ROH, and MLW rattling WWE's golden cage a little bit.

I'm not naive enough to think that any of the promotions I mentioned could threaten WWE's position as #1 like a WCW could - especially not in five years. But I'd like to think that pro wrestling will be stronger and more diverse outside of the WWE and it's various NXT contrivances.

I would think that as a WWE fan, you would want a bit of competition to force WWE to up it's game. WWE has always been at it's best when it faced some headwinds.


bopol - 8-21-2018 at 10:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Is this going to be how things line up in 5 years?

Major Leagues: Raw and SD
AAA: NXT Florida
AA: NXT UK, NXT Japan, NXT India, NXT Mexico
A: Top Independents like ROH, New Japan


Nah, it's more like:

Major Leagues: Raw and SD
Very foreign league: NJPW
Not quite as good but we'll pretend: Mexican wrestling (see Mexican League in baseball which is rated AAA and isn't).
AAA: Nxt
Atlantic League: ROH


DKBroiler - 8-21-2018 at 11:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Is this going to be how things line up in 5 years?

Major Leagues: Raw and SD
AAA: NXT Florida
AA: NXT UK, NXT Japan, NXT India, NXT Mexico
A: Top Independents like ROH, New Japan


So what you are actually wishing for in five years is this:

1. WWE
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Independent and Japanese wrestling

I mean, ok...I guess.

Personally, I'd prefer a scenario where NJPW has a strong presence on American TV and tours here regularly and several thriving, large independent promotions like Impact, ROH, and MLW rattling WWE's golden cage a little bit.

I'm not naive enough to think that any of the promotions I mentioned could threaten WWE's position as #1 like a WCW could - especially not in five years. But I'd like to think that pro wrestling will be stronger and more diverse outside of the WWE and it's various NXT contrivances.

I would think that as a WWE fan, you would want a bit of competition to force WWE to up it's game. WWE has always been at it's best when it faced some headwinds.


It’s not that I’m rooting for it. I’m more just projecting it. It seems like that’s the path that WWE is going down and Fox gave them a billion reasons to try.

If New Japan were to achieve mainstream attention in the USA in 5 years I’d be thrilled. I just don’t expect it cause WWE has reached a corporate level unheard of in the industry.


Cherokee Jack - 8-21-2018 at 11:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Anyway, all of this is why I do not view ROH (the top American Indy from what I’ve read on here) as above NXT Florida.
Not saying it’s above NXT Florida, just more on that level (and certainly above international NXTs). Tough to categorize it at all in terms of being a WWE farm system anyway when it’s not affiliated at all. The comparison someone made to being a top international league is probably better.

As far as ROH’s talent goes, yeah it’s true that probably Cody, Omega and perhaps the Bucks are the only ones that would debut directly on the main roster. But most anyone who’s achieved any kind of prominence in ROH (I’m thinking guys like the Briscoes, Lethal, Scurll, King, Taylor, Castle, etc) would likely start with NXT Florida, and that would be seen as more of a lateral move, albeit one with more upward mobility. Being sent off to the UK or Mexico or wherever would end up feeling like a step back.

But anyway, yeah that’s my point. It’s tough to really rate ROH on a scale of WWE developmental when they aren’t that at all. But they’d definitely rate higher than “lower than literally any WWE affiliated company.”


Flash - 8-22-2018 at 06:06 AM

Nothing official announced yet, but there seems to be some rumours that Daniel Bryan has now signed a contract extension. Word came out a few days ago, including comments from Bryan himself, that the two sides were close and were just working stuff out over house show dates and a lighter schedule for Bryan, but otherwise all the broad strokes were said to be there.

Considering the WWE just wanted Bryan in a non-wrestling on screen role while he was still injured you'd have to figure getting him in the ring is probably gravy. I know Bryan doesn't put up Roman Reigns type merch numbers, but I really doubt he's only getting his downside either; so you'd have to figure getting him for all your TV and PPV, along with probably your big market house shows and international tours you'd have to figure it's gravy for them.


Paddlefoot - 8-22-2018 at 06:12 AM

* Rowan will be going for surgery on his injured biceps this week and is expected to miss four to six months from work to recover


williamssl - 8-22-2018 at 11:21 AM

I thought that said Roman and got excited.


punkerhardcore - 8-22-2018 at 12:34 PM

Bray and Harper are both now without their partners, while Braun could use some backup against the Shield? What a nice coincidence.


TownOfDalem - 8-22-2018 at 01:21 PM

I personally just like the idea of mini-regional NXT brands that act as feeders into the big NXT that is then leads into Raw and Smackdown. I'm surprised people took DK's ranking of NJPW and RoH literally. I thought that was just a solid troll job by him.


TownOfDalem - 8-22-2018 at 01:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Bray and Harper are both now without their partners, while Braun could use some backup against the Shield? What a nice coincidence.


Yes please.


First 9 - 8-22-2018 at 02:06 PM

Bryan vs Miz for a shot at the WWE Title has been announced for the Australia show. The standard guess here is that Miz wins, wins the Title then Bryan chases him for it. Maybe all the way to Bryan winning the Rumble and challenging Miz at WM.

But AJ, Joe, and even Orton as compelling options to keep or win the Title I feel they'll be a few curveballs.


CCharger - 8-22-2018 at 02:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I'm surprised people took DK's ranking of NJPW and RoH literally. I thought that was just a solid troll job by him.

DK can't get his chapped lips off from around the stubbled base of Vince's turgid penis long enough to form a coherent-enough thought to troll.


First 9 - 8-22-2018 at 03:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I was waiting for that. I think the quick answer to that is that despite some “top guys” having issue, recent history has shown that 99% of people still start out no higher than NXT Florida. From what I’ve heard Shinsuke and Balor were huge stars and they did their tour. Adam Cole is great and he’s doing one too.

Only AJ got to avoid NXT ... not even Samoa Joe avoided it. Of all of the outside stars I think the only one with a plausible shot of avoiding NXT Florida entirely would be Kenny Omega. Cody doesn’t count.




That's an interesting argument, besides Omega, who else could get the AJ Styles treatment? The Bucks could go either way and Daniels and others could get the Gallows and Anderson treatment and sneak in via their connection to established stars. Can't think of anybody else.

Another thing to ponder, is it coincidence that the two guys who've come the closest to match Roman's status as the top guy in WWE are two guys(AJ and Strowman) who skipped NXT? Yeah I know Braun was a extra in Adam Rose's menagerie and did house shows but he was never an NXT star.


DKBroiler - 8-22-2018 at 03:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I personally just like the idea of mini-regional NXT brands that act as feeders into the big NXT that is then leads into Raw and Smackdown. I'm surprised people took DK's ranking of NJPW and RoH literally. I thought that was just a solid troll job by him.


It was definitely not a troll job. Haha. It was quite literal. After reviewing the responses I have no issue putting it at the level of (or a hair below) NXT Florida. From WWE’s perspective - which defacto becomes the mainstream American perspective - getting an NXT contract is a step up.

Too many ROH all stars left and instantly became NXT regulars for it to be anything less than a lateral move, but with the greater exposure I’m not sure it can’t be considered a step up.

I have no issue removing New Japan from this entirely because they sell out stadiums in their home territory. All-In is big news because it sold out a basketball arena once. NXT does that regularly.


DKBroiler - 8-22-2018 at 03:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I'm surprised people took DK's ranking of NJPW and RoH literally. I thought that was just a solid troll job by him.

DK can't get his chapped lips off from around the stubbled base of Vince's turgid penis long enough to form a coherent-enough thought to troll.





Accurate. It’s VASCULAR!!!!!


Matte - 8-22-2018 at 04:58 PM

The regional NXT brands seem like a stepping stone to NXT Florida. Don't the wrestlers signed to NXT UK also work European independents? They're basically being seasoned for WWE while still being able to work locally in their own territory, so they don't have to uproot themselves to go work for WWE's "independent" brand. Once they're deemed ready, they'll move over to NXT Florida where they'll get more exposure and build a larger fanbase of the American audience before moving up again to WWE's main roster.

If that's accurate, the system looks like this:
Independents > WWE-Sanctioned Independents (Evolve, Progress) and Regional NXT (UK) > NXT Florida > WWE

ROH and Impact probably fall somewhere within the second step there, maybe a little higher. Not yet in WWE's little feeder system they've created, but big enough for WWE to be interested in their top stars and sign them straight to NXT Florida. NJPW is a whole different thing because it's not an independent company; it's the top company in another country. A top star transitioning from NJPW to WWE will still need to pass through NXT to become accustomed to the style change, but that process doesn't necessarily place the company into the same bracket as Evolve and Progress. Just my own opinion: I might put NJPW right above NXT Florida. Now, a top star in NJPW might be a bigger name than a top star in NXT, but will have to take a small step back by going to NXT before taking the larger step forward and ending up in WWE.


DKBroiler - 8-22-2018 at 06:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
The regional NXT brands seem like a stepping stone to NXT Florida. Don't the wrestlers signed to NXT UK also work European independents? They're basically being seasoned for WWE while still being able to work locally in their own territory, so they don't have to uproot themselves to go work for WWE's "independent" brand. Once they're deemed ready, they'll move over to NXT Florida where they'll get more exposure and build a larger fanbase of the American audience before moving up again to WWE's main roster.

If that's accurate, the system looks like this:
Independents > WWE-Sanctioned Independents (Evolve, Progress) and Regional NXT (UK) > NXT Florida > WWE

ROH and Impact probably fall somewhere within the second step there, maybe a little higher. Not yet in WWE's little feeder system they've created, but big enough for WWE to be interested in their top stars and sign them straight to NXT Florida. NJPW is a whole different thing because it's not an independent company; it's the top company in another country. A top star transitioning from NJPW to WWE will still need to pass through NXT to become accustomed to the style change, but that process doesn't necessarily place the company into the same bracket as Evolve and Progress. Just my own opinion: I might put NJPW right above NXT Florida. Now, a top star in NJPW might be a bigger name than a top star in NXT, but will have to take a small step back by going to NXT before taking the larger step forward and ending up in WWE.


Well said. Definitely close to what I was trying to convey. I should not have lumped New Japan in. Error on my part. Much like the Japanese baseball league, while it might not be the exact equal to the MLB, the track record of Japanese baseball players succeeded instantly in MLB is very good. At worst the Japanese league in baseball would be like AAA++, with only a few cultural differences. Seems to be the same case here in wrestling.


Paddlefoot - 8-22-2018 at 08:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Bray and Harper are both now without their partners, while Braun could use some backup against the Shield? What a nice coincidence.


This is a great idea on paper. The roadblock to it is that Braun is now too hugely popular to ever be taking orders from Bray again. It's kind of an identical conundrum of how The Rock grew past Farooq in the NOD way back when.


TownOfDalem - 8-22-2018 at 08:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
This is a great idea on paper. The roadblock to it is that Braun is now too hugely popular to ever be taking orders from Bray again. It's kind of an identical conundrum of how The Rock grew past Farooq in the NOD way back when.


With Bray being a face the past few months this wouldn't be too much of a problem. Braun can be the defacto leader and you have the potential Bray heel turn on Braun just sitting there as a break glass in case of emergency.


salmonjunkie - 8-22-2018 at 08:34 PM

The only backup Braun needs is his former partner, Nicholas.


TownOfDalem - 8-22-2018 at 08:41 PM

If the Dudley's can powerbomb Mae Young off the stage what's the big deal in Nicholas taking a triple powerbomb through an announce table?


Dyn-O-Mite - 8-22-2018 at 08:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Bray and Harper are both now without their partners, while Braun could use some backup against the Shield? What a nice coincidence.


Yes please.


Bray Wyatt did post this to his Twitter account just under 24 hours ago:

https://twitter.com/WWEBrayWyatt/status/1032043057561186304

Obviously could be working us or at least 1 person on the inside is thinking the same thing...


G. Jonah Jameson - 8-23-2018 at 01:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Another thing to ponder, is it coincidence that the two guys who've come the closest to match Roman's status as the top guy in WWE are two guys(AJ and Strowman) who skipped NXT? Yeah I know Braun was a extra in Adam Rose's menagerie and did house shows but he was never an NXT star.


This is an interesting point. Maybe it helps to not have to translate an NXT persona to main-roster WWE, seeing as they're different audiences and what appeals to one doesn't necessarily appeal to the other. Or maybe live crowds are willing to afford a little more leeway, rather than immediately rending their garments and gnashing their teeth because such-and-such character was "ruined" upon moving up to the main roster.

Though, of course, it's not a guarantee of success, as Karl Anderson and (especially!) Mike Kanellis can attest.


Paddlefoot - 8-23-2018 at 09:35 PM

* Bill Goldberg is allegedly co-operating with the Secret Service after his Twitter account was hacked and used to send threats to POSPOTUS David Dennison

* Becky Lynch goes full-meta, blasts lack of push on not being blonde, lacking enhancements, etc.

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018/0822/645106/becky-lynch-on-her-lack-of-push-in-wwe-is-it-because-i-dont-have/

quote:
"Why is that? Is it because I'm not blonde enough? Is that it? Is it because I don't have enough enhancements? Is that it? I'm treated like the red-headed stepchild of the entire Women's Division. Yet I have proved time and time again that I am the moneymaker -- that I am the person that people will tune in to see that they will care about -- that they want to see me win. Yet it's being stolen from me every single time."


Well played, Irish, well played indeed.


First 9 - 8-23-2018 at 10:45 PM

Good to see Becky and WWE are just omitting that unsinspired promo from last Tuesday. WWE.com even has a poll asking if you were supporting Becky.


salmonjunkie - 8-23-2018 at 11:42 PM

Yeah, the promo works a lot better with them editing out her shitting on the fans.

And that poll - for those who haven't seen it, the question is:

Did you support Becky Lynch the entire time she was trying to win the SmackDown Women's Title?


- Yes, I was rooting for her the whole way.

- Yes, but only until Charlotte Flair got involved.

The first choice has 95% of the votes.


bigfatgoalie - 8-24-2018 at 12:41 AM

Wait...is Becky suggesting she’s not pushed because she dyes her hair the wrong colour? Or that she is “real” or “authentic” while bottle blondes are not?

That’s....an odd choice.


DKBroiler - 8-24-2018 at 01:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Wait...is Becky suggesting she’s not pushed because she dyes her hair the wrong colour? Or that she is “real” or “authentic” while bottle blondes are not?

That’s....an odd choice.


It’s still real to me ...


G. Jonah Jameson - 8-24-2018 at 01:43 AM

Becky Lynch may have manufactured aspects of her appearance, just like the people she derides, but those aspects are less conventionally attractive, so they don't benefit the way they do others. At least that's my read of her comments.

I tend to suspect that commitment to unique, but not conventionally attractive, appearance is part of the reason she's so popular with smaller, but very vocal, elements of the fan base. But then, Ruby Riott has basically the same thing going on without a quarter of the support, so who knows.


First 9 - 8-24-2018 at 03:46 AM

In the best news of the month La Parka(going under LA Park due to bullshit) is killing it in Mexico, almost doubling attendance from 5k to 9k for weekly shows.The Chairman of WCW has been forcing CMLL and AAA to cut their shit(they don't like to share) and settle with him working for both.

MLW has apparently already booked him for some matches in Australia and Ol' Dave is specualting that American promotions won't be far behind.

Since Impact is thinking of running some shows in Mexico they'll probably try to grab him but it'd be awesome if WWE reached out to him for a one-off deal like they did with Liger.


[Edited on 8-24-2018 by First 9]


SpiNNeR72 - 8-24-2018 at 08:49 AM

I posted this to the NXT thread but as it hasn't cropped up here yet :

HHH media call following Takeover - "Clearly I wasn't planning on Gargano injuring himself in the last sequence of that match. Did it play into it? Yeah. Technically it was supposed to go slightly differently than it all did. We kinda had to make a call on the fly and change a few things in the actual moment. So it ends up being different because only the people putting it together know what they were doing and that's the beauty of what we do and they get there."


CCharger - 8-24-2018 at 01:56 PM

* Multiple sources are reporting that the WWE has reached out to AJ Lee about returning at Evolution, and that she is receptive to the idea. No word on when CM Punk will file for divorce.

* Kurt Angle's departure from TV is reportedly to get ready for an in-ring return, and it's possible there are plans for him to wrestle Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania.

* The penciled in plan is keeping the title on Rousey until Wrestlemania where she will drop it clean to Charlotte.


Paddlefoot - 8-24-2018 at 07:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
She's Paddlefoot.


Good lord, that evokes a grim image.

If I was that good looking I'd be down at the dock waiting for the fleet to come in.

* ever the decent and gracious guy, Daniel Bryan says he enjoyed working with the since-endeavoured Big Cass, saying that he saw a lot of improvement in Cass's performance during their feud and that he also thinks Cass is an OK guy



[Edited on 8/24/2018 by Paddlefoot]


williamssl - 8-24-2018 at 08:02 PM

Translation: I made him better


Paddlefoot - 8-24-2018 at 08:17 PM

Yup. Cass still has a lot of potential; I'm one of the few that think his first couple of promos (especially the Miz interview) just after his return from injury showed a lot of improvement, that he could hold his own on the mic without defaulting the talking part to someone like Enzo. All he really needs is to lose the current shitty attitude he apparently has and get his act together. He probably can't be a huge solo star like they thought but there's always room for a dirty big man to play the role of a hammer. What's at question will be if that alleged backstage incident where he was bothering Carmella was bad enough that there's no way that WWE would ever allow him to come back at all.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-25-2018 at 01:27 AM

Well, considering that running burning hammer was THE most interesting thing Cass ever did in his entire wrestling career (including being Daniel Bryan’s idea, reportedly)....haha don’t even know how to finish it.

Guarantee Cass was super professional with Bryan given how he probably knew his days in the company were numbered. Probably wanted to really impress to keep his spot on the roster, and Bryan likes working with bigger guys if they are capable.

I liked their matches.


First 9 - 8-25-2018 at 03:52 PM

Neville's contract has expired so we'll soon see him again. More than likely he'll bounce around NJPW, MLW, the American indys and the British promotions without really making any of them his ''home'' sot speak.

But if he were to commit to one company as a flag bearer, I think he'd be a big boost for ROH.


Paddlefoot - 8-25-2018 at 09:55 PM

* Neville is no longer under contract to WWE and is free to resume his career anywhere he pleases

* Eric Bischoff said in a recent interview that the corporate owners of WCW at the near-end days of the company put a premature end to the West Texas Outlaws and their very fine "Rap Is Crap" song because of fears of being accused of racism

* Davey Boy Smith Jr said in an interview that his dad would on occasion side with HBK and the Kliq during booking decisions because he thought what they had planned was generally interesting and that he also felt Bret Hart's incessant criticizing and enmity with HBK was going too far; apparently Davey Sr. also had no problem at all with losing the European title to DX in a humiliating way on the One Night Only PPV broadcast from Birmingham, UK, because he thought that occasionally jobbing out like that was just part of the business

* this Monday's RAW will open with a match between Strowman and Reigns for the Universal Title after Braun issued a challenge; Roman accepted it and on his Twitter account today mocked Braun as a "meat shack"


anglefan85 - 8-26-2018 at 12:49 AM

If Neville went to New Japan, he'd be a perfect fit in Suzuki-Gun.


Matte - 8-26-2018 at 12:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Neville's contract has expired so we'll soon see him again. More than likely he'll bounce around NJPW, MLW, the American indys and the British promotions without really making any of them his ''home'' sot speak.

Sounds like a Kota Ibushi situation. Neville vs. Kota Ibushi...book it!


bopol - 8-26-2018 at 01:07 AM

I hope that Neville goes back to PAC, the man that gravity forgot, because as indyrific as that was, I loved it.


Count Zero - 8-26-2018 at 02:05 AM

I have possibly-mabey asked this before and don't remember if I ever got an answer (or have forgotten said answer): What does "PAC" stand for/represent/whatever?


Flash - 8-26-2018 at 04:50 AM

The only thing I could find was a reference to his dad calling him six pack (due to his abs) when he was a kid, so when he started out he figured Pac would make for an interesting name. The same reference I came across said he discussed it on Cabana's Art of Wrestling.

I'm curious though, and I didn't listen to the podcast for myself, but why is it often spelled PAC in all capitals instead of just the first letter being capitalized like any other name?


Paddlefoot - 8-26-2018 at 05:57 AM

I'm assuming it's because of the high-flying shit he "has moves like Pac-Man!", unless it's some sort of tribute to X-Pac or Tupac.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-26-2018 at 06:08 AM

Neville would be perfect for Switch!!


CamstunPWG187 - 8-26-2018 at 06:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
The only thing I could find was a reference to his dad calling him six pack (due to his abs) when he was a kid, so when he started out he figured Pac would make for an interesting name. The same reference I came across said he discussed it on Cabana's Art of Wrestling.

I'm curious though, and I didn't listen to the podcast for myself, but why is it often spelled PAC in all capitals instead of just the first letter being capitalized like any other name?


Marketing. Having a capitalized name is unique and stands out on the marquee.


Slade - 8-26-2018 at 12:56 PM

Why anyone would willfully choose PAC as their ring name in spite of how easily it evokes memories of X-Pac - whether deliberately or not - is a mystery to me. The only rational explanation is that he's a Sean Waltman superfan.


CCharger - 8-26-2018 at 07:54 PM

Here's an interesting tidbit:

The top five merchandise sellers for the 2nd quarter of WWE's financial earnings report (April 1 to June 30) are:

1. Samoa Joe
2. Becky Lynch
3. AJ Styles
4. Roman Reigns
5. John Cena


Paddlefoot - 8-26-2018 at 08:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Here's an interesting tidbit:

The top five merchandise sellers for the 2nd quarter of WWE's financial earnings report (April 1 to June 30) are:

2. Becky Lynch



Clearly that's because a lot of people just want to fuck her.

Now sports entertain, ya heavenly sk8rboi gobs!





[Edited on 8/27/2018 by Paddlefoot]


bigfatgoalie - 8-26-2018 at 08:43 PM

Got a source on that? Forbes posted 2 days ago Reigns was #1.


nOOb - 8-27-2018 at 11:02 AM

I Googled it and the sites I saw at the top all had it the same: Reigns-Cena-Styles-Balor-Rollins (the last two could be flipped but I don’t care either way). That other list seems like it’s there to try and give the IWC a win or something.


First 9 - 8-27-2018 at 01:05 PM

Wasn't Bryan dominating merch sales like a month and a half ago?

That lost to the Bludgeon Brothers must have really hurt him.

[Edited on 8-27-2018 by First 9]


CCharger - 8-27-2018 at 01:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Got a source on that? Forbes posted 2 days ago Reigns was #1.

Totally my fault.

This is an old list. Sorry.


williamssl - 8-27-2018 at 03:56 PM

Old list or old made-up list ?

Super curious now as to what period in time Joe and Becky were #1 and #2 for the quarter if that's an accurate-but-aged list.


CCharger - 8-27-2018 at 04:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Old list or old made-up list ?

Super curious now as to what period in time Joe and Becky were #1 and #2 for the quarter if that's an accurate-but-aged list.

LOL
Yeah, I made up a fucking list. Jesus...


Katie Vick killer - 8-27-2018 at 04:52 PM

If Berto won the lottery, I could see Becky breaking the top 5 merch sellers! "Lass Kicker Ts for everyone!"


williamssl - 8-27-2018 at 05:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Old list or old made-up list ?

Super curious now as to what period in time Joe and Becky were #1 and #2 for the quarter if that's an accurate-but-aged list.

LOL
Yeah, I made up a fucking list. Jesus...



Let me rephrase this as questions and in a way that wasn't intended to be accusing you of doing it but glad you interpreted it as such:

What time period was this list from? And is there a source that attributes it directly to WWE?


Paddlefoot - 8-27-2018 at 07:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Katie Vick killer
If Berto won the lottery, I could see Becky breaking the top 5 merch sellers! "Lass Kicker Ts for everyone!"


If I won the lottery I'd give a couple of million to Becky for (a) a dinner date with her, and (b) so she could hire more security to keep her safe from guys like Roy.


punkerhardcore - 8-27-2018 at 07:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot

If I won the lottery I'd give a couple of million to Becky for (a) a dinner date with her



That would be depressing. I'd be sitting there eating like a fatso, and she looks like the type that eats nothing but chicken breasts, kale and almond butter three meals a day.


G. Jonah Jameson - 8-27-2018 at 07:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Old list or old made-up list ?

Super curious now as to what period in time Joe and Becky were #1 and #2 for the quarter if that's an accurate-but-aged list.

LOL
Yeah, I made up a fucking list. Jesus...



Let me rephrase this as questions and in a way that wasn't intended to be accusing you of doing it but glad you interpreted it as such:

What time period was this list from? And is there a source that attributes it directly to WWE?


Forget this "IcOOnic" nonsense, we need a macro that automatically adds "I'm not saying that you, personally, made this up" every time someone questions the veracity of a rumor.


Paddlefoot - 8-27-2018 at 08:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot

If I won the lottery I'd give a couple of million to Becky for (a) a dinner date with her


That would be depressing. I'd be sitting there eating like a fatso, and she looks like the type that eats nothing but chicken breasts, kale and almond butter three meals a day.


I'd be less worried about my eating routine and much more that I'd go all mush-mouthed retard around her, or any of the others too, and just me muttering "huhhhh, buhhhh, gleep…" because I'd be so damn nervous around them. That would freak them out way worse than eating like Mr. Creosote.


salmonjunkie - 8-27-2018 at 08:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore

That would be depressing. I'd be sitting there eating like a fatso, and she looks like the type that eats nothing but chicken breasts, kale and almond butter three meals a day.


The girl loves her quinoa.



[Edited on 8-27-2018 by salmonjunkie]

[Edited on 8-27-2018 by salmonjunkie]


coxito - 8-28-2018 at 01:19 AM

[Edited on 8-28-2018 by coxito]


CCharger - 8-28-2018 at 01:17 PM

* Neville was spotted in Pittsburgh this week, leading to speculation that he could be signing a new deal with the WWE.

* WWE officials are "gobsmacked" by the reaction that the Charlotte/Lynch feud has had. They are reportedly scrambling, trying to figure out how they misjudged the crowd reactions so badly.

* The Kevin Owens "I Quit" angle is to take him off TV so he can recover from various injuries including lingering effects of a concussion. There is currently no timetable for his return.


ulsterphil - 8-28-2018 at 01:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* WWE officials are "gobsmacked" by the reaction that the Charlotte/Lynch feud has had. They are reportedly scrambling, trying to figure out how they misjudged the crowd reactions so badly.



Its pretty fucking easy to figure out that you didn't listen to the crowd.


CCharger - 8-28-2018 at 01:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ulsterphil
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* WWE officials are "gobsmacked" by the reaction that the Charlotte/Lynch feud has had. They are reportedly scrambling, trying to figure out how they misjudged the crowd reactions so badly.



Its pretty fucking easy to figure out that you didn't listen to the crowd.

Are you referring to me? Specifically?


williamssl - 8-28-2018 at 02:30 PM

Of course he is. Because anytime anyone posts anything in follow-up to a rumor it is specifically and solely about the person who posted the rumor to begin with. Always. Never just about the rumor. Always about the person who posted it.

We firmly established that over the past couple days.

Wait...

quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
we need a macro that automatically adds "I'm not saying that you, personally, made this up" every time someone questions the veracity of a rumor.


royberto - 8-28-2018 at 06:31 PM

quote:
* WWE officials are "gobsmacked" by the reaction that the Charlotte/Lynch feud has had. They are reportedly scrambling, trying to figure out how they misjudged the crowd reactions so badly.
Boy, they really are a bunch of dumbasses.


*Jason Sensation, who used to impersonate Owen Hart, tweeted out before Raw that he was going to walk into Raw with a loaded gun and commit suicide. He wasn't at the arena however, and is now being investigated by the Toronto police.

[Edited on 8-28-2018 by royberto]


DKBroiler - 8-28-2018 at 08:25 PM

Here’s a link to a really cool article on “calling it in the ring”.

http://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/24494507/wwe-shelton-benjamin-dying-art-improvisation-world-pro-wrestling


Paddlefoot - 8-28-2018 at 08:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* WWE officials are "gobsmacked" by the reaction that the Charlotte/Lynch feud has had. They are reportedly scrambling, trying to figure out how they misjudged the crowd reactions so badly.


1) that's because practically everyone likes or outright loves Becky
2) all they're going to do is succeed in giving Charlotte some kind of permanent X-Pac heat from the smarks, turning her into a female version of the rabidly hated Cena or Reigns, which she doesn't fucking deserve in the slightest

Jesus fucking Christ, just let them brawl like banshees for the next few months going into Survivor Series and knock it off with the overly convoluted booking they use to get a Pavlovian-dog reaction from the audience. There is nothing wrong at all with having a grand feud with two tweeners/hybrids beating the shit out of each other. Anyone telling anyone else who to cheer for or how to cheer/boo the "right" way can go fuck themselves, and that applies equally to smart-ass know-it-alls on the fucking internet, and to the smark cunts in the audiences that keep hijacking shows, as much as it does to the goddamn deaf/blind/dumb clogs doing the booking for WWE.


GodEatGod - 8-28-2018 at 09:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Jesus fucking Christ, just let them brawl like banshees for the next few months going into Survivor Series and knock it off with the overly convoluted booking they use to get a Pavlovian-dog reaction from the audience. There is nothing wrong at all with having a grand feud with two tweeners/hybrids beating the shit out of each other. Anyone telling anyone else who to cheer for or how to cheer/boo the "right" way can go fuck themselves, and that applies equally to smart-ass know-it-alls on the fucking internet, and to the smark cunts in the audiences that keep hijacking shows, as much as it does to the goddamn deaf/blind/dumb clogs doing the booking for WWE.




That said, I do think WWE themselves would see value in picking one as a face and one as a heel in terms of who they're partnered with in multi-man and backstage segments. It's a question of who gets to hang out with Lana/Asuka/Naomi and who gets to hang out with Carmella or the IIConics.

[Edited on 8-28-2018 by GodEatGod]


CCharger - 8-28-2018 at 09:12 PM

* In another sign that the WWE apparently doesn't understand it's own fanbase, Meltzer has confirmed that Braun Strowman is a heel. If people are confused about whether one guy is a heel or a babyface, you probably aren't doing a very good job of writing their character.


CVD39 - 8-28-2018 at 09:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* In another sign that the WWE apparently doesn't understand it's own fanbase, Meltzer has confirmed that Braun Strowman is a heel. If people are confused about whether one guy is a heel or a babyface, you probably aren't doing a very good job of writing their character.


That makes zero sense other than Strawman needed 2 dudes to help him out against the Shield and they didn’t want to turn the Shield heel, although last week they were acting like heels. So now Strowman forgoes a spur of the moment title shot for the baby face “announce it for the future” and then immediately turns heel?

Fans are booing Reigns, they’ve been cheering Strowman like crazy and then you switch them? What if they woulda had Reigns turn on Ambrose/Rollins and Strowman join them to get even with a new faction of Roman/Ziggler/Drew?


CCharger - 8-28-2018 at 09:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* In another sign that the WWE apparently doesn't understand it's own fanbase, Meltzer has confirmed that Braun Strowman is a heel. If people are confused about whether one guy is a heel or a babyface, you probably aren't doing a very good job of writing their character.


That makes zero sense other than Strawman needed 2 dudes to help him out against the Shield and they didn’t want to turn the Shield heel, although last week they were acting like heels. So now Strowman forgoes a spur of the moment title shot for the baby face “announce it for the future” and then immediately turns heel?

Fans are booing Reigns, they’ve been cheering Strowman like crazy and then you switch them? What if they woulda had Reigns turn on Ambrose/Rollins and Strowman join them to get even with a new faction of Roman/Ziggler/Drew?

Imagine how Kevin Owens feels. He damned neared killed himself to get Braun over as a strong babyface, only for him to turn heel a few weeks later.


CVD39 - 8-28-2018 at 09:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Imagine how Kevin Owens feels. He damned neared killed himself to get Braun over as a strong babyface, only for him to turn heel a few weeks later.


Maybe that’s why he quit.




Honestly, after he said that he wasn’t leaving Toronto without a title, I was hoping he’d lose and then later tell Corbin that he wanted another shot at a title and then Corbin would’ve just gifted the Hardcore title to him (“Really?” “Yes, really. I’m the boss this week and you do deserve a title”).
Him quitting just could’ve added some drama and forced Corbin to react, making it even better.

It could be around for a few months than retired again but maybe it could light a fire under Owens to get his juices going again. But if he’s hurt and this is giving him some time off, then cool.

[Edited on 8-28-2018 by CVD39]


williamssl - 8-28-2018 at 09:52 PM

In politics, the majority of Republicans are going to vote for their candidate no matter what.
Same re: Democrats. Or if you don't like those party labels, put conservative and liberal on there. Or whatever.

There's a sliver of folks on either side + independents who are the swing votes. That's the point.


I kinda view the Roman / Braun dynamic the same.

There are people who are going to cheer Roman no matter what.

There are people who are going to boo Roman and/or cheer Braun no matter what.

And there's this small group of fans in this case who are actually influenced by what WWE does re: these characters and will change their affiliation and cheering/booing accordingly.


Paddlefoot - 8-28-2018 at 10:00 PM

I'd like to see how long a fan sign that said "don't tell me who to cheer for" or "I'll never boo Becky/Braun/Owens/whoever" lasted for before someone in gorilla sent security out to get it off the screen.


First 9 - 8-29-2018 at 12:24 AM

Is it really any different than Punk at the height of his popularity turning heel against Cena and Rock?

You can only keep two superman-style babyfaces on top for so long before one either turns heel or one is downgraded to the midcard. I wished they had pull the trigger on the Reigns heel turn but Braun is better off going back heel and being the no.1 bad guy then battling with Ambrose, Rollins, and Balor for the no.2 good guy spot behind Reigns.


Matte - 8-29-2018 at 12:33 AM

I kind of see it as one of those gray areas between face and heel, for now at least. Roman (the hated face) siding with his Shield brethren (both loved) to triple team Braun (also loved) who now sided with Dolph and Drew (heels) to even the odds. Cheer whoever you like in the equation, boo whoever you don't. I kind of like it. I'm sure they'll do something to make me hate it next week.


bigfatgoalie - 8-29-2018 at 12:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Imagine how Kevin Owens feels. He damned neared killed himself to get Braun over as a strong babyface, only for him to turn heel a few weeks later.


Conversely, FIGHT OWENS FIGHT! works 100% better as a chant if KO turns as well. Considering Owens has been a face for a couple hours in NXT, it’d be interesting to see his ceiling as a face.


Flash - 8-29-2018 at 12:48 AM

Wasn't Braun at his heel-iest pretty much him beating up jobbers to cheers then completely beating the shit out of Reigns at random intervals to massive cheers?

Unless it turns out he ate Nicholas or something like that I see a heel Strowman going over about as well as a heel Becky at this point.

It's funny to look at Strowman; he looks like a heel but his facial mannerisms and reactions just give him an over the top-ness that probably makes him more of a natural face or at best a cartoonish heel. On the flip side Reigns has a cockiness about him (and he may be a great guy in real life) and just looks like a guy you want to see get beat up... He can work face but I really think, and it's not just because I think it would "save him", that he's more of a heel type guy than face.

If all of these crowd reactions are coming as a big surprise to the WWE maybe they need to go out into the stands and actually watch their show for once.


Flash - 8-29-2018 at 12:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Conversely, FIGHT OWENS FIGHT! works 100% better as a chant if KO turns as well. Considering Owens has been a face for a couple hours in NXT, it’d be interesting to see his ceiling as a face.


The great thing is I think they've already laid a lot of the ground work for Owens to be a face; he's said in the past he needs to be champ to earn more money for his family... We saw some of the real stuff he shouted out to his son, or that he named his son in honour of Owen Hart (and then by default his character name). All that stuff plays really well for a face Owens.... Although to do it right I think he still needs to pull some cheap stuff here and there for the win... Just have him get his ass kicked from time to time and refuse to lay down (prompting the fight Owens fight chants)


Count Zero - 8-29-2018 at 02:34 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Here’s a link to a really cool article on “calling it in the ring”.

http://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/24494507/wwe-shelton-benjamin-dying-art-improvisation-world-pro-wrestling
I would even go above "really cool" and say that article was ..... AWESOME. (Y'all thought I was going to say icOOnic, admit it.)

And I'm serious. These are the little backstage-secret type things that keep me amazed by grown men & women doing gymnastic displays for a paycheck. The part about the WGTT/Eddie&Chavo series of matches gave me goosebumps, partly because I still miss Eddie but mostly because it emphasized how it's important for guys to be able to roll with the action in a live environment. It's the wrestling version of guys in a band "just jamming", if that makes sense. They know what the other players can do, and they give & take their turns being the center of attention. Great wrestling is collaborative, as much as they want us to believe it's competitive.

Thanks for linking that DK. It put a smile on my face that I really needed.


the goon - 8-29-2018 at 02:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Here’s a link to a really cool article on “calling it in the ring”.

http://www.espn.com/wwe/story/_/id/24494507/wwe-shelton-benjamin-dying-art-improvisation-world-pro-wrestling
I would even go above "really cool" and say that article was ..... AWESOME. (Y'all thought I was going to say icOOnic, admit it.)

And I'm serious. These are the little backstage-secret type things that keep me amazed by grown men & women doing gymnastic displays for a paycheck. The part about the WGTT/Eddie&Chavo series of matches gave me goosebumps, partly because I still miss Eddie but mostly because it emphasized how it's important for guys to be able to roll with the action in a live environment. It's the wrestling version of guys in a band "just jamming", if that makes sense. They know what the other players can do, and they give & take their turns being the center of attention. Great wrestling is collaborative, as much as they want us to believe it's competitive.

Thanks for linking that DK. It put a smile on my face that I really needed.


Kind of going along with that, I always thought it would be fascinating to be able to watch a wrestling match where both guys (and the ref) were all mic'd up. I mean, I know it would ruin the illusion, but I'd love to see just how much communication is going on during your typical match.


Flash - 8-29-2018 at 03:51 AM

I always thought that would be something cool (the mic'd up talent and ref) but much like maybe a WWE 24 from inside the writers room or from Gorilla it might be kicking the door too far open.

Maybe a network show where two opponents do a directors commentary on some classic matches might be a nice compromise?

Anyway that was a cool article and it really kind of illustrates one of the many ways that much like winging it in a promo some of those old school skills that made for a great performer and performance are dying out sadly.

As an unrelated aside Benjamin name checked both Lesnar and Orton as guys who can still call it on the fly... Would Lesnar still qualify?

Guy: What move do you want to do next
Lesnar: Suplex
Guy: We just did 12 of them! Call something else.
Lesnar: Uh... Fisherman's Suplex?
Guy: That's still a suplex!
Lesnar: Suplex!

Orton's interesting as if you read almost any interview with another talent he often gets named as one of the best guys to work with... I know he's prone to using long chin locks but it kind of makes you wonder if he hadn't be over pushed early in his career causing most of the IWC apathy towards him would his body of work be viewed in a much more positive light? I'm not saying Bret Hart in terms of technical skill, but at least a better appreciation for the rest of his work beyond RKO out of nowhere...


Count Zero - 8-29-2018 at 05:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash

Guy: What move do you want to do next
Lesnar: Suplex
Guy: We just did 12 of them! Call something else.
Lesnar: Uh... Fisherman's Suplex?
Guy: That's still a suplex!
Lesnar: Suplex!

I laughed probably-too-hard at that.

MORE COWBELL!!!! (SNL reference)

TAKING CARE OF BUSINESS!!!!! (Homer J. Simpson reference)

SUPLEX!!!! (Bork Lazor now joins the !!! hall of fame)


Flash - 8-29-2018 at 05:59 AM

It's funny; I remember watching some shoot video with Nash where he was responding to Cornette bitching about how he only ever did his five moves of doom and his response was to basically mock that there was this pitcher called Nolan Ryan who has the audacity to only ever throw a fast ball; I suppose his point was that if it works why wouldn't you use your best moves; which kinda calls a lot of wrestling into question... IE yeah a guy who can work different styles and who can adapt to different stuff is great but at the same time there is a certain realism to what Brock does; Suplexes are an impact move and since you aren't supposed to punch your opponent into unconsciousness you probably should go with what works.... and yet Brock's reliance on a single move over and over makes his matches boring and predictable which is to say we as fans probably do want a high degree of unrealistic action in matches.

Maybe Vince is right when he said once upon a time that the WW(F)E isn't wrestling.... Odd that Brock probably behaving like a wrestler calls him into question.


GodEatGod - 8-29-2018 at 12:36 PM

Heel and Face are just tools used to get people to care about angles.

People already care about Braun/Roman and Becky/Charlotte. Everyone involved has a pretty well defined character and understandable motivations. The hand-wringing over who's a face and who's a heel is just muscle memory of an era in wrestling that has passed away.

I'm not saying heels and faces can't be useful, I'm just saying they're not necessary if the characters are compelling enough on their own. And, for now, I do find these characters interesting enough for that and I don't need to be told who to boo and who to cheer.


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 01:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Heel and Face are just tools used to get people to care about angles.

People already care about Braun/Roman and Becky/Charlotte. Everyone involved has a pretty well defined character and understandable motivations. The hand-wringing over who's a face and who's a heel is just muscle memory of an era in wrestling that has passed away.

I'm not saying heels and faces can't be useful, I'm just saying they're not necessary if the characters are compelling enough on their own. And, for now, I do find these characters interesting enough for that and I don't need to be told who to boo and who to cheer.

This is fine if you don't believe that pro wrestling is about storytelling anymore. If you are more into the athletic, gymnastics aspect rather than compelling characters and plot then fine, I guess.

Good guys and bad guys in conflict over something is the basis of storytelling and has been for thousands of years. It was the foundation of Greek theater, and antogonists and protagonists have been fighting over shit ever since.

Moreover, it's the heel/babyface conflict that has been the basis of pro wrestling since at least the 1940's and 50's.

My point is, it works. It's proven that it works. It's worked for centuries. To suggest that "good guy fighting bad guy over something important" is a trope that has "passed away" is daft.

Even Stone Cold Steve Austin, the one guy everyone points to as a "tweener" was ultimately a babyface and his antagonist was Mr. McMahon. Good guy vs. bad guy. Good vs. Evil. One got cheered, and the other guy got booed. Even the NWO, the "cool heels" were booed as the bad guys.

It's not hard.

When you have two guys (or girls) and the audience doesn't know who is good or who is bad or who to root for and who to root against, that's not "edgy" or "modern" or cutting edge". It's fucking bad storytelling.

[Edited on 8-29-2018 by CCharger]


GodEatGod - 8-29-2018 at 05:00 PM

I absolutely think it's about storytelling. That's why I think it should be about the characters themselves, rather than some artificial allegiance to which locker room they come out of. Characters can have conflict with each other for all kinds of reasons that don't have anything to do with one being a dastardly monster and another being a virtuous babyface sweetheart. And again, I'm not saying get rid of heels and faces altogether, I'm not saying that some feuds aren't made better by having heels be really evil and hated and faces being really good and loved. If anything, I wish we had more lawful good babyfaces, but the last one we had, Sami Zayn, got crapped on until he went darkside.

I'm just saying, if a few stories play with shades of grey, with characters that are already well-established and have their own followings, if heel/face lines aren't always clearly dilineated in EVERY feud, then...maybe that's okay? Maybe wrestling is actually a medium through which you can tell lots of different kinds of stories and not just the basic good vs. evil trope?

For example, my favorite novel is Frankenstein. The story has a very strong central conflict of the monster and Dr. Frankenstein in opposition. And the common wisdom is "oh, it inverts the trope by making the monster the hero and Frankenstein the villain". But it doesn't. Both the monster and the doctor are flawed characters. They have reasons to do the things they do, reasons that are compelling and personalities which are interesting and play into their interactions with others and one another. Reducing it to just 'monster good, Frankenstein bad' is a disservice to the story. Yes, Frankenstein is selfish and arrogant and reckless. He also sincerely loves his family, comes to regret his actions and tries to redeem himself. Yes, the monster is noble, intelligent and damned for reasons outside his control due to the negligence of his creator. But he also allows himself to become consumed with hate and hurts innocent people in the bargain.

That's a great story. And yeah ,wrestling can't always do that or even come anywhere close to it, but I don't mind if it TRIES now and again.


[Edited on 8-29-2018 by GodEatGod]

[Edited on 8-29-2018 by GodEatGod]


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 05:10 PM

I agree with you. I don't think everything needs to be perfectly good/bad. It's good when characters have nuance.

But that's not the point here. The point is that the storytelling and character development has been so bad that people are confused rather than intrigued. What the WWE had done with Braun/Roman and Charlotte/Becky isn't interesting storytelling or nuanced characterization. It's haphazard and ham-fisted, and their audience is confused and frustrated.

Babyfaces can do bad things, and heels can do good things. But everyone still knows who's the babyface and who's the heel. If you can't tell the difference, then the storytelling has failed.


CamstunPWG187 - 8-29-2018 at 05:16 PM

-Jason Sensation, who used to impersonate Owen Hart, tweeted out before Raw that he was going to walk into Raw with a loaded gun and commit suicide. He wasn't at the arena however, and is now being investigated by the Toronto police.


GodEatGod - 8-29-2018 at 05:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I agree with you. I don't think everything needs to be perfectly good/bad. It's good when characters have nuance.

But that's not the point here. The point is that the storytelling and character development has been so bad that people are confused rather than intrigued. What the WWE had done with Braun/Roman and Charlotte/Becky isn't interesting storytelling or nuanced characterization. It's haphazard and ham-fisted, and their audience is confused and frustrated.

Babyfaces can do bad things, and heels can do good things. But everyone still knows who's the babyface and who's the heel. If you can't tell the difference, then the storytelling has failed.


We're just going to disagree about this, because I think the ambiguity in the story is sort of what makes it good sometimes. I fully understand why Becky did the things she's done and why Charlotte did the things she's done (other than Becky's hamfisted fan-bashing, which was bad writing, I agree). Roman and Braun both have clear and fundamental motivations - they both want the title and Brock's year and a half stranglehold on it is making the contenders to Roman's belt impatient and willing to take shortcuts. The Shield's return is extra intimidation in the bargain and people are willing to make strange bedfellows to counteract 'the numbers game' (TM Michael Cole).


TownOfDalem - 8-29-2018 at 05:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
-Jason Sensation, who used to impersonate Owen Hart, tweeted out before Raw that he was going to walk into Raw with a loaded gun and commit suicide. He wasn't at the arena however, and is now being investigated by the Toronto police.


That's a pretty wild story. Thanks for sharing.

Loved that skit back when I was in middle school, but the black face doesn't exactly hold up well


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 05:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I agree with you. I don't think everything needs to be perfectly good/bad. It's good when characters have nuance.

But that's not the point here. The point is that the storytelling and character development has been so bad that people are confused rather than intrigued. What the WWE had done with Braun/Roman and Charlotte/Becky isn't interesting storytelling or nuanced characterization. It's haphazard and ham-fisted, and their audience is confused and frustrated.

Babyfaces can do bad things, and heels can do good things. But everyone still knows who's the babyface and who's the heel. If you can't tell the difference, then the storytelling has failed.


We're just going to disagree about this, because I think the ambiguity in the story is sort of what makes it good sometimes. I fully understand why Becky did the things she's done and why Charlotte did the things she's done (other than Becky's hamfisted fan-bashing, which was bad writing, I agree). Roman and Braun both have clear and fundamental motivations - they both want the title and Brock's year and a half stranglehold on it is making the contenders to Roman's belt impatient and willing to take shortcuts. The Shield's return is extra intimidation in the bargain and people are willing to make strange bedfellows to counteract 'the numbers game' (TM Michael Cole).

Sure, we can agree to disagree respectfully.

For my money, I expect the clear #1 promotion in the world with vast amounts of money and resources to develop clear and interesting characters and provocative storylines that connect with their fans easily. That's not happening here, and I don't think it's some 3D chess that WWE Creative is playing with the characters' story arcs.

But if it works for you as a fan, I can't bash you for what you like or don't. It just doesn't work for me or for many others.


Paddlefoot - 8-29-2018 at 05:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I agree with you. I don't think everything needs to be perfectly good/bad. It's good when characters have nuance.

But that's not the point here. The point is that the storytelling and character development has been so bad that people are confused rather than intrigued. What the WWE had done with Braun/Roman and Charlotte/Becky isn't interesting storytelling or nuanced characterization. It's haphazard and ham-fisted, and their audience is confused and frustrated.

Babyfaces can do bad things, and heels can do good things. But everyone still knows who's the babyface and who's the heel. If you can't tell the difference, then the storytelling has failed.


We're just going to disagree about this, because I think the ambiguity in the story is sort of what makes it good sometimes. I fully understand why Becky did the things she's done and why Charlotte did the things she's done (other than Becky's hamfisted fan-bashing, which was bad writing, I agree). Roman and Braun both have clear and fundamental motivations - they both want the title and Brock's year and a half stranglehold on it is making the contenders to Roman's belt impatient and willing to take shortcuts. The Shield's return is extra intimidation in the bargain and people are willing to make strange bedfellows to counteract 'the numbers game' (TM Michael Cole).


Should put in the comment that a lot of this is wild over-reaction by the perpetually impatient over a pair of story-lines that are only a couple of weeks old. It's no where near the stage to deserve total contempt, not the way (for example) feeding Daniel Bryan at the height of his underdog popularity to Randy Orton deserved to be crapped on. On RAW they've got all six of the top-level male performers squaring off in impressive factions against each other. On SD they've got the most dominant female athlete in the entire women's division under siege by arguably the most popular woman on the roster. At this stage there's far more reason to be optimistic that going into Survivor Series we're going to have two really good feuds happening on the TV shows and secondary PPV's for at least three months.

I am not by nature an optimist. In contrast I'm almost always a pessimist. This near-panic though by some of the fans and internet commenters that "they've totally fucked everything up!" really makes no sense at all. That's not a proper analysis of the current product, IMO, that's just reflexive crapping on WWE by fans holding some kind of permanent grudge against them for reasons of their own. I do not automatically give WWE an automatic thumbs-up for everything they do but, on the other side, this incessant blasting at them even when they've done nothing wrong is just thoroughly played out to the point of being tedious.


Planet Starbucks - 8-29-2018 at 05:55 PM

If the idea of face and heel was truly an outdated concept from a bygone era, then why do WWE continue to do things like lower crowd noise and confiscate signs? The way they behave doesn't correlate with the idea that face / heel is just a vehicle to get guys over.

I don't like Roman Reigns. At all. I think he's a mediocre worker, below average talker and a complete charisma vacuum. But as much as it irks me, I do think the guy is over. Every time he comes out, we get the same loud mix of boos and preteen squeals, rather than indifferent silence. His merch numbers are consistently near or at the top. His character clearly pisses a significant portion of the fan base off, but it doesn't seem to matter. So why the fuck do they persist with this stupid censorship / editing campaign in an attempt to maintain the traditional face presentation? If he's over, why does it matter?

In a lot of ways, I too think it would be better to just present well defined characters and let whatever reaction occurs happen naturally, regardless of previously held notions of face / heel alignment. It would most likely lead to better storytelling and greater emotional investment from fans. However, in spite of any official statements to the contrary, WWE clearly haven't entirely moved on from the idea of faces and heels getting the predetermined reactions that they want. There is also no logical reason to think that this will change any time soon.


GodEatGod - 8-29-2018 at 06:00 PM

Again, I will reiterate: I am not suggesting that heels and faces be abolished. I am saying that having a few shades of grey feuds here and there is not the end of the world. And I am saying you can only do that with characters people are already invested in, love or hate, and only with stories that will get attention and time to develop and not be condensed into ten minutes in the midcard. Both of these situations would seem to fit that category, to me, so far.


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 06:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Again, I will reiterate: I am not suggesting that heels and faces be abolished. I am saying that having a few shades of grey feuds here and there is not the end of the world. And I am saying you can only do that with characters people are already invested in, love or hate, and only with stories that will get attention and time to develop and not be condensed into ten minutes in the midcard. Both of these situations would seem to fit that category, to me, so far.

I'm not suggesting that you think heels and faces should be abolished.

My point is simply that I don't think this is some clever "shades of grey" storytelling re: Braun/Roman and Becky/Charlotte. I think it's shitty, half-assed, under-informed creative writing.

But if it works for you then, hey...blind squirrel and all that.

[Edited on 8-29-2018 by CCharger]


Planet Starbucks - 8-29-2018 at 06:07 PM

@ GEG - I agree with you. The WWE, however, don't seem to. Most 'shades of grey' storylines they present us with seem more like accidents than well considered character work. Why else would they be 'gobsmacked' by the crowd reaction to Becky's heel turn?

[Edited on 8-29-2018 by Planet Starbucks]


Paddlefoot - 8-29-2018 at 06:11 PM

Can't speak to piping in different crowd sounds to counter-act "wrong" cheering or booing, but I agree it's kind of sleazy to alter an honest reaction by the crowd that way. As for the signs I think it's more a case of them just not wanting the headache of dealing with a trend from the wild west of the Attitude days. In PG days they might simply not want the risk of signs with even mild profanity like "crap" or "sucks" seen on screen, or taking the risk that someone gets in with a something like "(female talent) is a ring rat" or "I'm watching ROH instead". And, most of all, blocking someone else's view of the ring with a sign all night is kind of a crappy thing to do, so if enough complaints from paying customers were made over the years maybe they decided to simply put a stop to it.

Can't recall seeing a single sign in the Toronto SD show last night so maybe, especially with more kids in the audiences these days, that it's just something that no longer appeals to the vast majority of the attendees to even bother doing anymore.


Flash - 8-29-2018 at 06:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
-Jason Sensation, who used to impersonate Owen Hart, tweeted out before Raw that he was going to walk into Raw with a loaded gun and commit suicide. He wasn't at the arena however, and is now being investigated by the Toronto police.


Hey thanks for posting that Cam

I remember Jason making some news a several years back when he made some allegations about how he was raped by someone at the WWE and other indignities while also musing about how he was going to write a book about it.

Vince Russo apparently sent some texts to Sensation after his most recent suicide threats, and Sensation himself has now tweeted out an apology for the ill advised attempts at humour and has stated that he has since been hospitalized.

So not for nothing Toronto just suffered it's own spree shooter not so long ago and a separate van rampage that resulted in multiple deaths within the calendar year to say nothing of seeing a record number of gun related homicides this year to date... I know he threatened suicide but still; making any jokes about a gun in a public place is so far beyond being able to justify it as an attempt at humour... So shame on him.

On the flip side; if the rape comments he's made in the past are true I can see how that could mess him up, so for as tasteless as his comments were I do hope that he gets whatever help he needs... Can't say I've ever missed his presence in the WWF but his Owen and HBK impressions were entertaining.


GodEatGod - 8-29-2018 at 06:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Planet Starbucks
@ GEG - I agree with you. The WWE, however, don't seem to. Most 'shades of grey' storylines they present us with seem more like accidents than well considered character work. Why else would they be 'gobsmacked' by the crowd reaction to Becky's heel turn?

[Edited on 8-29-2018 by Planet Starbucks]


Oh, I'm not entirely sure they intended them to be that way. I have an English degree - I can enjoy narrative on my own terms regardless of authorial intent.

Because yes, they were stupid if they actually thought the crowd was going to boo Becky turning on Charlotte. It would've been so much easier to do the other way around. But just because it isn't perfect or ideal doesn't mean I can't get enjoyment out of it and both women are still probably the best thing going in their division on either roster.


DKBroiler - 8-29-2018 at 08:04 PM

1) Happy to help Count!
2) Regarding Faces and Heels ...

How about you’re both right?

Good vs Evil is, was and always will be a strong basis for story telling. As stated previously essentially every important piece of literature in human history had some element of this. It will be, and should be, around forever.

That said, it’s an inarguable fact that some consumers require more layers than that. I too have an English degree and have studied so many pages of literature ranging from amazing (Shakespeare still holds up) to awful (fuck you Jane Austin), so I for one can handle nuance. Some can, some cannot. The WWE audience is not only first level thinking mouth breathers but it has the educated, the young, the old, males and females, and people of all different races as well.

For most people The New Day are super faces. I’d imagine that’s not the case for Cleatus in West Texas. For most people Jinder Mahal is a heel, but my brothers Indian boss was thrilled to hear they had a champion of Indian heritage. Personally I can’t stand Bayley BECAUSE she is so nice; I’ve always been naturally mistrustful of overly nice people.

I say all this because people’s definitions of good and evil can be vastly different. The Miz is a super heel but if wrestling were real you would never hear me booing him for doing what he needs to do to win. I identify with most heels more ... not in that I’d shit on people’s hometowns or kick babies ... but that most of them are simply heels because they bend the rules. Oh well, a win is a win in my book.

So yeah, I get that good versus evil is old, but we still need it. The part we need to re-evaluate is what makes someone good or evil because THAT is what most people seem to be disagreeing with.

Finally in regards to Beckie and Charlotte, I think the only person who is “gobsmacked” is Vince. His definition of evil appears to be “person who talks shit on the fans” but he failed to notice that many of his most popular wrestlers shit on the fans every week. Elias and KO first and foremost. In 2018 it seems that most people just want to root for those who entertain them the most or those who are viewed as they paid their dues. No one really cares if you talk shit to them if it’s entertaining. Do you hate your friends in real life who say a perfectly timed joke at your expense? I don’t. I love them more cause it was funny and I know that I’ll have a chance to get them back down the road.

Also ...


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 08:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler


Beckie





You spelled Becky wrong.


DKBroiler - 8-29-2018 at 08:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler


Beckie





You spelled Becky wrong.


Haha ... and you stuttered while naming yourself Charger!


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 08:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler


Beckie





You spelled Becky wrong.


Haha ... and you stuttered while naming yourself Charger!

Ffuckk offf


DKBroiler - 8-29-2018 at 08:38 PM


GodEatGod - 8-29-2018 at 08:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Finally in regards to Beckie and Charlotte, I think the only person who is “gobsmacked” is Vince. His definition of evil appears to be “person who talks shit on the fans” but he failed to notice that many of his most popular wrestlers shit on the fans every week. Elias and KO first and foremost. In 2018 it seems that most people just want to root for those who entertain them the most or those who are viewed as they paid their dues. No one really cares if you talk shit to them if it’s entertaining. Do you hate your friends in real life who say a perfectly timed joke at your expense? I don’t. I love them more cause it was funny and I know that I’ll have a chance to get them back down the road.

Also ...


It's almost like he's a thin-skinned narcissist who can't stand to be personally affronted and thinks everyone thinks like he does because he has no sense of empathy or understanding of anyone other than himself.

So basically every billionaire.


CCharger - 8-29-2018 at 08:50 PM


Count Zero - 8-29-2018 at 09:24 PM

And even though Good vs Evil is a pretty strong traditional storytelling mechanism, let's not forget the recent (or maybe not-so-recent, taking into account things like Hamlet & Othello) popularity of the Every Character Is Flawed At Heart motif. Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul, Game of Thrones, etc etc etc.

Sometimes we like Heroes and Villains, and sometimes we like Hey That Guy's Just Responding The Way I Would/Wish I Could.

~Count Obvious~

P.S. Definitely sending a big Fuck You out to Jane Austen. Jesus Lord.


Planet Starbucks - 8-30-2018 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
I have an English degree dammit!


quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Me too!


Me three. What say we all slap our degrees on the table and measure whose is biggest?


Kobolos - 8-30-2018 at 05:01 PM

When asked for comment the author replied simply:


First 9 - 8-30-2018 at 05:16 PM

In Vince's defense, the motherfucker has made sympathetic babyfaces turn heel and forced the audience to deal with it and gets his way plenty of times. Punk after getting overshadowed so much over them turned on Cena and Rock and while the smarks stuck with him, Cena's fans and Punk's masterful mic work got him enough heat to declare the idea a success. Plus the heel turn revitalized him so everybody was eventually cool with it. Remember poor Christian, wins the World Title, accomplishes his dream and two days later Randy Orton rips it away. The rivalry continued with Orton as the face and Christian as the heel.

They might still not consider Becky's heel turn a mistake but instead think they just pulled the trigger too quickly.


bigfatgoalie - 8-30-2018 at 05:30 PM

It’s funny people bring up KO and Elias when talking heel/face dynamics. Those guys get huge reactions, but can work a crowd. And maybe more importantly, they are allowed to do so.

So far it’s something they haven’t allowed Becky to try. And we know Becky CAN work as a heel from her time in NXT. Her “Were you ever really with me?” line wasn’t the best way to get boos. And saying “bitch” is more edgy than all out heel. Not saying she needs to resort to cheap heat tactics like the icOOnic IIconics (did I do that right?) but if the announcers are going to present her as a heel, she should act the part. And the WWE can help her, starting with new entrance music. Unless she channels Sami Zayn and embraces her inner douche during her entrance, she needs new music.

Same with Braun. There’s simple things he can do, like not say “Get these hands!”, but if he’s going to be a heel he will have to work the crowd. And again, like Becky, part of that is on him and part on WWE.

The other alternative is to have the announcers, recaps, and video packages stay neutral. I’m not sure the WWE can handle something as nuanced as that.


williamssl - 8-30-2018 at 06:07 PM

Becky calling someone a bitch > Roman calling someone a bitch.


Count Zero - 8-30-2018 at 07:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Planet Starbucks
quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
I have an English degree dammit!


quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Me too!


Me three. What say we all slap our degrees on the table and measure whose is biggest?
Me four!

The hell so many English majors dOOing here? It's like a book club or some thing...


denverpunk - 8-30-2018 at 08:35 PM

Me five! Should the glut of English majors on here be enough of a warning to not major in English?

[Edited on 8-30-2018 by denverpunk]


G. Jonah Jameson - 8-30-2018 at 09:19 PM

I think there's value in turning a popular but stagnating babyface like Becky Lynch. A change of attitude could have positive effects for her character development, even if a substantial section of the audience refuses to boo her. I mean, aside from that brief, awkward audience-bashing, has anyone *not* found her more interesting since Summerslam?

quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
Me five! Should the glut of English majors on here be enough of a warning to not major in English?

[Edited on 8-30-2018 by denverpunk]


I almost majored in English, but chose journalism instead. Is that close enough?


denverpunk - 8-30-2018 at 09:44 PM

You have to use the English language in a very specific, advanced way as a journalism major, no matter what Fox News does to bastardize the profession. You six!


CCharger - 8-30-2018 at 11:21 PM

Me six. This is scary...


williamssl - 8-30-2018 at 11:54 PM

I knew there had to be a reason why I hated you all! Thanks for surfacing what otherwise would have left me wondering why forever.


janerd75 - 8-31-2018 at 12:10 AM

I started out as an English major, but then I smartened up and decided to be even more useless by getting a Natrual Resource Managment major, because #ICare about the environment. Learn from me kids, because this is how you reach IcOOnic status.

#WISCO4LIFE!



In non-degree dick-swinging news, DDP is gonna be on Joe Rogan's podcast sometime next week.


CVD39 - 8-31-2018 at 02:08 AM

Maybe you failed as an English major because you couldn’t spell natural?


Count Zero - 8-31-2018 at 02:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
I almost majored in English, but chose journalism instead. Is that close enough?
To unrail the thread J-Nards tried to re-rail (or do rails?), I started out in journalism and chose English instead! We're like Bizarro twins or ...something... not ... even remotely close to that.


janerd75 - 8-31-2018 at 04:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
Maybe you failed as an English major because you couldn’t spell natural?


Corngrats! You have discovered the secret of the Jannerdoo!!!


Paddlefoot - 8-31-2018 at 05:13 AM

Nice work, Fluffermann.


Flash - 8-31-2018 at 05:42 AM

Me seven....

I found out a girl I liked was doing an English class during the summer session so I signed up for that thinking hey... small classes, summer school, maybe I can get to know her better (I also needed the credit but would have otherwise done it during the normal school year); I have a degree in contemporary studies but after the summer ended I looked over my credits and realized that stuff like film also counted towards an English degree, so I might as well take a few more classes and get the full English degree.... Didn't get the girl but did get a double major in English and Contemporary studies.


Paddlefoot - 8-31-2018 at 05:46 AM

"He has a degree in something that isn't finance or STEM. For the love of God, will someone have some pity and help him?!?!?".


punkerhardcore - 8-31-2018 at 08:09 AM

I minored in English. So... half a point for me, I guess?


nOOb - 8-31-2018 at 09:55 AM

I have a heaping amount of student loan debt that doesn’t have a matching degree to go along with it...are we still cool?


CamstunPWG187 - 8-31-2018 at 01:04 PM

I’m an English teacher, which means I am next on Marlo Stanfield’s list.


TownOfDalem - 8-31-2018 at 01:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
I have a heaping amount of student loan debt that doesn’t have a matching degree to go along with it...are we still cool?


Isn't what you just said basically a synonym for English Degree? I think your good.


DKBroiler - 8-31-2018 at 01:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
I almost majored in English, but chose journalism instead. Is that close enough?
To unrail the thread J-Nards tried to re-rail (or do rails?), I started out in journalism and chose English instead! We're like Bizarro twins or ...something... not ... even remotely close to that.


That’s what I did. Hahaha. This is great. Funny enough there were only 3 other guys in my 25 person senior seminar and one of them was a super hardcore indy wrestling fan.

I’m also the shittiest English major ever. I chose it because I write well and I’m way too lazy to do real homework. Now I mostly just use what I learned to craft IT related emails and make shit posts on here.


denverpunk - 8-31-2018 at 01:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
I’m an English teacher, which means I am next on Marlo Stanfield’s list.


You should incorporate some of the snootier grammar rules into your wrestling character!


CCharger - 8-31-2018 at 01:56 PM

* WWE is planning on a "lengthy" title reign for Roman probably past Wrestlemania.

* Meanwhile, WWE is planning on pushing Drew McIntyre as Roman's next feud after Braun Strowman

* Kurt Angle is reportedly "training hard" for an in-ring return, probably against Baron Corbin, possilby at the Royal Rumble

* The Rock is expected to be a major part of the Smackdown 1000 show


Flash - 8-31-2018 at 09:48 PM

Not that I particularly like seeing the title get hot-shotted around a bunch, we just suffered through Brock holding the Universal title hostage for a long time, and Styles has admirably held down the WWE title for a long stretch... Maybe one or two short reigns for some established guys on the Raw show might not be the worst thing for a bit....

I get that Reigns is full time so it would be different, but I think there's also something to be said about how it might be better for an unsympathetic baby face to not be the one holding the title and beating everyone.


GodEatGod - 9-1-2018 at 11:30 AM

Per social media, it appears that Aleister Black and Zelina Vega are dating.


First 9 - 9-1-2018 at 01:27 PM

If Punk was worried about his brand, those worries have probably been put to rest. His meet and greet had a ridiculously long line(for $200 bucks) and everybody is walking out with warm and fuzzy stories about how personable and nice he was.


Accipiter - 9-1-2018 at 05:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Per social media, it appears that Aleister Black and Zelina Vega are dating.


If they started dating a month ago, it would explain his injury #testiculartorsion


SpiNNeR72 - 9-1-2018 at 11:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
If Punk was worried about his brand, those worries have probably been put to rest. His meet and greet had a ridiculously long line(for $200 bucks) and everybody is walking out with warm and fuzzy stories about how personable and nice he was.


The dirt sheets are going wild with Punks appearances today and the relativity of All In. Now obviously he lives in Chicago, so it's logical, but what a fucking coup it would be if Cody & Co can actually get him to make an appearance.

And just imagine the buzz and sales if he won the "Zero Hour" battle royal (against Cabana)

Rumour. But a fucking good one!


Flash - 9-2-2018 at 10:41 AM

Gotta love Cena; after weeks of hyping that he's added a new move to his five moves of doom he finally unveiled the "lightning fist".... Basically he went to the corner, screamed, and then proceeded to just punch Elias in the face at a Shanghai show for the win.


the goon - 9-2-2018 at 07:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* WWE is planning on a "lengthy" title reign for Roman probably past Wrestlemania.


I take this with a pretty big grain of salt, because wasn't the last rumor that the WWE had no intentions of taking the belt off of Brock and he was going keep it until his UFC fight next year?

With that said, if anyone needs a lengthy title run, it's Roman. Because I think his previous three WWE title reigns lasted for what, like a few months total?


Paddlefoot - 9-2-2018 at 09:10 PM

* Booker T interviewed Big Cass recently, and the big guy seems pretty embarrassed and contrite about the way he was behaving during his last few months with WWE:

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018/0902/645441/big-cass-on-his-wwe-release-i-made-a-lot-of-mistakes-in-a-very/

Seems like a positive attitude improvement if nothing else, which is more than anyone can say about Enzo who's still running around making excuses for ruining his own spot with the big company. Add in Daniel Bryan's positive comments about Cass from their feud before the firing, and I highly doubt someone as honest and respected as DB would have said those things about him if he didn't mean them, and I can easily see Cass being back in WWE within a couple of years.


Flash - 9-2-2018 at 10:35 PM

Wait, an interview from a recently released guy where he doesn't blame HHH for everything and actually owns up hi s mistakes.... shocking!

In unrelated news and I'm not really sure what to say about this info but I just got home from Fan Expo in Toronto (think like San Diego or Chicago comic con)... anyway in the program I noticed that HHH, Styles, Miz, and Charlotte were all there along with the accompanying prices for autographs and pics..

HHH was $110, Styles and Miz were $60, and Charlotte was $50... Okay I get why a major legend like HHH might be so much and hey you could even argue that since he's worth a buttload already maybe he priced himself up there so more people might go to the current talent... But why is the lone woman there the cheapest... and really by a nominal difference.

I get that the convention sets the prices likely based around the expected popularity and the guests cost for coming, but kinda one of those things that just looks out of place.


First 9 - 9-2-2018 at 10:38 PM

Just might be working off previous numbers. They looked at the last 3 autograph signings, saw HHH always had endless lines while Charlotte had a small crowd compared to the rest, so HHH gets priced up while Charlotee is the cheapest option to even everything out.


Paddlefoot - 9-2-2018 at 10:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Wait, an interview from a recently released guy where he doesn't blame HHH for everything and actually owns up hi s mistakes.... shocking!


Yeah, that's almost like some kind of a first, or something so rare that no one can remember the last time it happened. Someone who was future-endeavoured owning up to their own fuck-ups instead of doing some rambling drunk/stoned diatribe full of "goddamn Stephanie, fucking asshole Triple-H", just like a million half-assed interview clips on YouTube featuring a former talent who looks like they fell asleep for a week in a farm culvert. Kind of refreshing to actually see, especially from Cass who was getting tagged with near-universal contempt because of his antics.

* also, this week in history:

#OnThisDay 18 years ago: #RAW @RealKurtAngle gave #MaeYoung an Angle Slam pic.twitter.com/4EfzzbfvFa

— Italo Santana 🇧🇷 (@BulletClubItal) February 7, 2018



goddamn, she was a tough ol' granny

[Edited on 9/3/2018 by Paddlefoot]


lz4005 - 9-3-2018 at 02:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I get that the convention sets the prices likely based around the expected popularity and the guests cost for coming, but kinda one of those things that just looks out of place.


I have friends who work at cons, including ones that feature wrestlers, and the celebrity always sets their own signing price.

Sometimes the con will set a maximum they can charge, but they don't set the price.


CamstunPWG187 - 9-3-2018 at 04:55 AM

According to PWInsider, the production team for the All In show tried to get Marty Scurll and Kazuchika Okada to finish their match. The site reports that the team was “losing their mind” trying to get signals to the two to end the match, which went twelve minutes over and nearly caused the PPV to be shut off before it ended. It was said to be “painfully obvious” that signals were being sent to Scurll and Okada to wrap it up.


Paddlefoot - 9-3-2018 at 06:08 AM

* Joey Mercury, who was working as a producer at All In, was arrested the morning of the event; apparently someone called the police because Joey was seen sleeping in his car, and when the cops ran his ID they found that he had an outstanding warrant back in Florida; he's in the lock-up in Cook County waiting for bail to be arranged


Flash - 9-3-2018 at 07:24 AM

quote:
Originally posted by lz4005
quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I get that the convention sets the prices likely based around the expected popularity and the guests cost for coming, but kinda one of those things that just looks out of place.


I have friends who work at cons, including ones that feature wrestlers, and the celebrity always sets their own signing price.

Sometimes the con will set a maximum they can charge, but they don't set the price.


Oh; I was always told that basically they get paid whatever amount to be there and then the fee's for the autographs and pics are basically the Con recouping (profiting) their investment... Which is why they (Con staff) go so nuts if you even try and grab a pic from a distance of the celeb. Maybe that's just the way they do it at the Toronto Con?


anglefan85 - 9-3-2018 at 12:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* Booker T interviewed Big Cass recently, and the big guy seems pretty embarrassed and contrite about the way he was behaving during his last few months with WWE:

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2018/0902/645441/big-cass-on-his-wwe-release-i-made-a-lot-of-mistakes-in-a-very/

Seems like a positive attitude improvement if nothing else, which is more than anyone can say about Enzo who's still running around making excuses for ruining his own spot with the big company. Add in Daniel Bryan's positive comments about Cass from their feud before the firing, and I highly doubt someone as honest and respected as DB would have said those things about him if he didn't mean them, and I can easily see Cass being back in WWE within a couple of years.


Far from a fan of his ringwork, but I can respect him for admitting that he messed up and understands why he was released.

Unlike Enzo, who seems to believe that the WWE betrayed him by releasing him.


Wickedfrost - 9-3-2018 at 12:38 PM

Late to the party (deep in the woods for a week). Another English major here.


SpiNNeR72 - 9-3-2018 at 06:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
According to PWInsider, the production team for the All In show tried to get Marty Scurll and Kazuchika Okada to finish their match. The site reports that the team was “losing their mind” trying to get signals to the two to end the match, which went twelve minutes over and nearly caused the PPV to be shut off before it ended. It was said to be “painfully obvious” that signals were being sent to Scurll and Okada to wrap it up.


Although I didn't notice the signals at the time, it really felt like it was dragging, and the only match of the night to do so. Its a fucking shame and very unprofessional, especially knowing it meant the main event would have to be bear all the brunt of the cut.


bigfatgoalie - 9-3-2018 at 08:14 PM

Okada seemed to be sleep walking through the match. Going over your time for that performance? Bitch please.


CCharger - 9-4-2018 at 12:31 PM

* Rumors of AJ Lee returning at Evolution have been completely squashed partly because of prior commitments on her part

* Regarding Scurll/Okada, there was so much heat backstage after the match that Marty refused to come out for the show-ending curtain call, and left the arena almost immediately after his match

* The Rock challenging Roman Reigns for the Universal title at Wrestlemania is absolutely a thing WWE wants to do, and it will all depend on Rock's schedule.


williamssl - 9-4-2018 at 03:48 PM

The bestest way to close out WM and have Roman get cheered after a triumphant title defense is for him to do so vs. The Rock. That will totally have the crowd cheering in unison for him, with maybe a super small # of detractors booing or having already left.


SpiNNeR72 - 9-4-2018 at 05:03 PM

^^ Absolutely. If they try to go down a "respect" route it could well be that Roman achieves the pinnacle of turning the people against the Rock.

Hell, it's happening with the shield now!


Count Zero - 9-4-2018 at 05:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Rumors [snip] have been completely squashed partly because [moresnip]
I get what you're trying to say, but "completely / partly" is a strange juxtaposition.

ENGLISH MORE BETTTERER *Major'd*


CCharger - 9-4-2018 at 06:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Rumors [snip] have been completely squashed partly because [moresnip]
I get what you're trying to say, but "completely / partly" is a strange juxtaposition.

ENGLISH MORE BETTTERER *Major'd*

Not really. The adverbs "completely" and "partly" aren't modifying the same thing.

It would be akin to me saying "The man was completely squashed partly because of a piece of wood [but also because of a grand piano and several tons of severed dicks falling from the sky].

[Edited on 9-4-2018 by CCharger]


royberto - 9-4-2018 at 07:51 PM

Becky vs. Charlotte inside Hell in a Cell?

.@BeckyLynchWWE So you want to settle this in a cell? I’m going to make one thing very clear. In a regular match I let go of your leg after you tap. In a cell, I let go when I want to. Either way this ends the same way... With you wondering what could have been as you limp away.

— Charlotte Flair (@MsCharlotteWWE) September 3, 2018


Count Zero - 9-4-2018 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger

It would be akin to me saying "The man was completely squashed partly because of a piece of wood [but also because of a grand piano and several tons of severed dicks falling from the sky].

[Edited on 9-4-2018 by CCharger]
True, and that's why I didn't quite go as far as sayin' you were "wrong". Just.. that particular phrase read funky. Your recent example, less so [due to the parenthetical stuff]. It's okay, I was just bored and Englishing. No harm, no foul. Your ball, side-out.


janerd75 - 9-5-2018 at 04:45 AM


CamstunPWG187 - 9-5-2018 at 05:00 AM

Whoa, did anyone check out Charlotte’s twitter?! I think you should check out Charlotte’s twitter!!

.@BeckyLynchWWE So you want to settle this in a cell? I’m going to make one thing very clear. In a regular match I let go of your leg after you tap. In a cell, I let go when I want to. Either way this ends the same way... With you wondering what could have been as you limp away.

— Charlotte Flair (@MsCharlotteWWE) September 3, 2018



Man!! Those teo in HIAC could be Match of the Night!! I ain’t kiddin!


williamssl - 9-5-2018 at 05:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
Whoa, did anyone check out Charlotte’s twitter?! I think you should check out Charlotte’s twitter!!

.@BeckyLynchWWE So you want to settle this in a cell? I’m going to make one thing very clear. In a regular match I let go of your leg after you tap. In a cell, I let go when I want to. Either way this ends the same way... With you wondering what could have been as you limp away.

— Charlotte Flair (@MsCharlotteWWE) September 3, 2018



Man!! Those teo in HIAC could be Match of the Night!! I ain’t kiddin!




But what if people cheer for Becky?


Paddlefoot - 9-5-2018 at 06:11 AM

Becky's gonna kill you
Becky's gonna kill you


CCharger - 9-5-2018 at 02:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187

Man!! Those teo in HIAC could be Match of the Night!! I ain’t kiddin!




But what if people cheer for Becky?


quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie

If a month from now in less Smark hotbeds Becky is still getting cheered? That will be the result of both the WWE AND BECKY not doing a good enough job.

[Edited on 8-22-2018 by bigfatgoalie]


Paddlefoot - 9-5-2018 at 03:53 PM

Meh. Who gives a fuck what the audience in a dumb town thinks anyway? Most of the time they sit on their hands in those places and don't even cheer for something off the hook like a four-star Rollins/Ziggler match. Don't take any cues off of towns like that because they're almost as bad as the dumbfuck show-hijackers are at creating negatively influencing the overall perception of the product. Cheer Becky. Boo Becky. Cheer Braun. Boo Braun. Cheer Roman. Boo Roman. I am NOT taking instructions from any of these other half-wits on how I'm supposed to watch what WWE is doing.

[Edited on 9/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 9-5-2018 at 04:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Meh. Who gives a fuck what the audience in a dumb town thinks anyway? Most of the time they sit on their hands in those places and don't even cheer for something off the hook like a four-star Rollins/Ziggler match. Don't take any cues off of towns like that because they're almost as bad as the dumbfuck show-hijackers are at creating negatively influencing the overall perception of the product. Cheer Becky. Boo Becky. Cheer Braun. Boo Braun. Cheer Roman. Boo Roman. I am NOT taking instructions from any of these other half-wits on how I'm supposed to watch what WWE is doing.

[Edited on 9/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those moron smart marks in Philly or Brooklyn have to say. They don't know anything!

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those morons in non-smark cities have to say. They don't know anything!

So basically wrestling fans anywhere don't know shit?

Welcome to the bOOards, Vince!


Wickedfrost - 9-5-2018 at 05:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Meh. Who gives a fuck what the audience in a dumb town thinks anyway? Most of the time they sit on their hands in those places and don't even cheer for something off the hook like a four-star Rollins/Ziggler match. Don't take any cues off of towns like that because they're almost as bad as the dumbfuck show-hijackers are at creating negatively influencing the overall perception of the product. Cheer Becky. Boo Becky. Cheer Braun. Boo Braun. Cheer Roman. Boo Roman. I am NOT taking instructions from any of these other half-wits on how I'm supposed to watch what WWE is doing.

[Edited on 9/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those moron smart marks in Philly or Brooklyn have to say. They don't know anything!

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those morons in non-smark cities have to say. They don't know anything!

So basically wrestling fans anywhere don't know shit?

Welcome to the bOOards, Vince!


Except in Canada. We know our shit.


CCharger - 9-5-2018 at 07:24 PM

* Rumor is that a secondary singles belt will be added to the Women's division in 2019

* Chris Jericho has heat on him from WWE for appearing at All In to promote his cruise. Jericho, for his part, doesn't seem to care

* There is speculation that Cody and the Young Bucks are already planning All In 2 which could take place next year in LA


Flash - 9-5-2018 at 07:30 PM

I'm actually enjoying watching more modern Raw's years after the fact for the first time... I don't think I've watched a live Raw since maybe 2015 or so, largely getting by on the bOOard, the network recap show, and all the packages they do during PPV recaps to keep up on stuff (the rest of the time I've been watching Raw from like 93-2001 or so), but recently started watching 2016 (brand split) onwards and devoid from the immediate reactions and getting caught up in all the drOOma about some guys and stuff that sometimes doesn't have anything to do with what the WWE is putting on and it's much more enjoyable.

Yeah it's great when a crowd is into a live show, and sometimes the reactions do influence the viewing of the show... but for the most part who cares.


Paddlefoot - 9-6-2018 at 12:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Meh. Who gives a fuck what the audience in a dumb town thinks anyway? Most of the time they sit on their hands in those places and don't even cheer for something off the hook like a four-star Rollins/Ziggler match. Don't take any cues off of towns like that because they're almost as bad as the dumbfuck show-hijackers are at creating negatively influencing the overall perception of the product. Cheer Becky. Boo Becky. Cheer Braun. Boo Braun. Cheer Roman. Boo Roman. I am NOT taking instructions from any of these other half-wits on how I'm supposed to watch what WWE is doing.

[Edited on 9/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those moron smart marks in Philly or Brooklyn have to say. They don't know anything!

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those morons in non-smark cities have to say. They don't know anything!

So basically wrestling fans anywhere don't know shit?

Welcome to the bOOards, Vince!


Not sure what your malfunction is these days but you're getting closer and closer to being a 'Berto-grade of dickhead with the incessant cynicism in your comments lately. Is there any point to your complaining about how everyone else but you are watching wrestling "wrong" or are you just doing this for some kind of troll-level laffs?


CCharger - 9-6-2018 at 12:55 AM

Oh, stop it.

No one’s trolling you. I’m just expressing a different opinion than you, and making a harmless, light-hearted joke.

Then again, if I insisted on watching WWE programming all the time, I’d probably be a little cranky too.


Paddlefoot - 9-6-2018 at 01:24 AM

That's cool. As you advance through life maybe you could temper your prevailing vibe that's currently screaming out "wow, everyone is stupid but me".


bigfatgoalie - 9-6-2018 at 02:17 AM

Remember cc’s break/vacay? Good times.

And in a move completely ignoring kayfabe, WWE has announced Becky vs Charlotte for the WWE Super Duper Aussie Show.

Announcing follow up title rematches before the first match is a minor thing, but an annoying thing.


CCharger - 9-6-2018 at 03:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Meh. Who gives a fuck what the audience in a dumb town thinks anyway? Most of the time they sit on their hands in those places and don't even cheer for something off the hook like a four-star Rollins/Ziggler match. Don't take any cues off of towns like that because they're almost as bad as the dumbfuck show-hijackers are at creating negatively influencing the overall perception of the product. Cheer Becky. Boo Becky. Cheer Braun. Boo Braun. Cheer Roman. Boo Roman. I am NOT taking instructions from any of these other half-wits on how I'm supposed to watch what WWE is doing.

[Edited on 9/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]

Actually, all I've done is present my argument in a calm, reasonable, respectful way.

I agreed to disagree with GEG respectfully. Denverpunk and I basically agreed on everything. Yes, I have a different opinion than you and most others here, but I have done it without being disagreeable.

You, on the other hand, with this petulant post, call people "dumb", "bad", "dumbfuck" and "half-wits" yet you claim that I AM the one making other people out to be "stupid". Do I think I'm right? Yes. That's what arguing an opinion is. If that makes you feel stupid, well, maybe you have your MAGA hat on too tight.

Oh, and BFG, you are right, my break from this place was great. You should try it sometime.


williamssl - 9-6-2018 at 04:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
Remember cc’s break/vacay? Good times.



No no no.

'Member when CCharger lost his smile and took a 'vacation'?









Oooh oooh and them 'member when he came back and said...

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
A few weeks of OO detox did me good.

I plan on contributing, but not interacting or engaging.










And then 'member when he did just that?


quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those moron smart marks in Philly or Brooklyn have to say. They don't know anything!

Paddlefoot: Don't listen to what those morons in non-smark cities have to say. They don't know anything!

So basically wrestling fans anywhere don't know shit?

Welcome to the bOOards, Vince!



quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I'm not suggesting that you think heels and faces should be abolished.

My point is simply that I don't think this is some clever "shades of grey" storytelling re: Braun/Roman and Becky/Charlotte. I think it's shitty, half-assed, under-informed creative writing.

But if it works for you then, hey...blind squirrel and all that.




quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Sure, we can agree to disagree respectfully.

For my money, I expect the clear #1 promotion in the world with vast amounts of money and resources to develop clear and interesting characters and provocative storylines that connect with their fans easily. That's not happening here, and I don't think it's some 3D chess that WWE Creative is playing with the characters' story arcs.

But if it works for you as a fan, I can't bash you for what you like or don't. It just doesn't work for me or for many others.



quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by williamssl
Old list or old made-up list ?

Super curious now as to what period in time Joe and Becky were #1 and #2 for the quarter if that's an accurate-but-aged list.

LOL
Yeah, I made up a fucking list. Jesus...


quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I'm surprised people took DK's ranking of NJPW and RoH literally. I thought that was just a solid troll job by him.

DK can't get his chapped lips off from around the stubbled base of Vince's turgid penis long enough to form a coherent-enough thought to troll.




quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Actually, all I've done is present my argument in a calm, reasonable, respectful way.

I agreed to disagree with GEG respectfully. Denverpunk and I basically agreed on everything. Yes, I have a different opinion than you and most others here, but I have done it without being disagreeable.

You, on the other hand, with this petulant post, call people "dumb", "bad", "dumbfuck" and "half-wits" yet you claim that I AM the one making other people out to be "stupid". Do I think I'm right? Yes. That's what arguing an opinion is. If that makes you feel stupid, well, maybe you have your MAGA hat on too tight.

Oh, and BFG, you are right, my break from this place was great. You should try it sometime.





Paddlefoot - 9-6-2018 at 04:31 AM



quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
You, on the other hand, with this petulant post, call people "dumb", "bad", "dumbfuck" and "half-wits" yet you claim that I AM the one making other people out to be "stupid".


I'm only pointing out that they're scum in relation to me. Yeah, now you see how they're all scum.

quote:
Do I think I'm right? Yes. That's what arguing an opinion is. If that makes you feel stupid, well, maybe you have your MAGA hat on too tight.




Oh bravo....


Count Zero - 9-6-2018 at 06:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by williamssl

Oooh oooh and them 'member when he came back and said...
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
A few weeks of OO detox did me good.

I plan on contributing, but not interacting or engaging.


And then 'member when he did just that?
I would like to say, as somebody who doesn't have a horse in this race,



Rekt by tekts. And by Tex.

[Edited on 9-6-2018 by Count Zero]


Flash - 9-6-2018 at 06:37 AM

Maybe we need some kinda Thunder Dome where two bickering OO'ers can enter and the rest of us can vote on a winner... Winner get's a chicken dinner, loser gets... herpes?


janerd75 - 9-6-2018 at 06:54 AM


Wickedfrost - 9-6-2018 at 03:17 PM



Will. Savage.


Count Zero - 9-6-2018 at 04:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero

Rekt by tekts. And by Tex.

quote:
Originally posted by Wickedfrost

Will. Savage.


Maybe I didn't mean Tex? I forget who is who around these parts sometimes... I was attempting to say that Charger got textually decimated by Williamssl. I let my attempt to be cool get in the way of the facts-checking.


Paddlefoot - 9-6-2018 at 05:06 PM

All I know today is that the titty-slapping contest got me kind of excited. And that's a good thing.


CCharger - 9-6-2018 at 11:02 PM

*phew"

Hey, guys! Sorry, I've been busy. Did I miss anyth....


First 9 - 9-7-2018 at 12:29 AM

Gonna side with CC in the last round, Pad set himself up for a joke by going after both the smarky towns and the quiet, non-smarky towns. The comparison with Berto was uncalled for.


bigfatgoalie - 9-7-2018 at 02:03 AM

I agree that Pad’s comments were ripe for mocking.

Hell I agree that it can be positive to take a break from the boards. I’ve done many times over, fuck, 17ish years.

I also agree that CC comes off as self-righteous with his “I’m smarter than you Vince loving fools” sctick.

And I think williamssl was right to mock CC....who still hasn’t linked to the fucking list that nobody else could find, and has been made more foolishish by this:

quote:


"I think after the first week, [the] main roster was already happening," Joe said. "When they got the merch and viewership numbers... I think the simplest way to describe it was that I had debuted with NXT and I had gone to the next city for tapings and Triple H had walked out of his bus and he came up and shook my hand and said to me, 'congratulations,' and I said, 'for what?' He said that I was #2 in merchandise last night. I said, 'oh, #2 in merch for NXT is pretty impressive' and he said 'no, for the entire company.' I was like, 'who was #1?' He said Kevin Owens, but that was because he had just debuted against John Cena and I said, 'okay, fine I will take those numbers'."

Joe on the Sam Robert’s Podcast.




I mean, if I was bragging about my merch sales, I’d bring up a one day ranking over topping sales for a fiscal quarter.


Paddlefoot - 9-7-2018 at 08:07 AM

1) I'll apologize if I went too far, especially with an un-necessary 'Berto comparison

2) I still maintain that a lot of the complaining about WWE these days, and not just from CC, is way out of control. It's gained a life of it's own and is happening now simply because it's now a thing to do. There is no way, despite things like the Roman push, the Sasha/Bayley on/off-again feud, or the KO "I quit" then being back a week later, that WWE is simply doing everything "wrong". It's just not possible. I say that as someone who's done plenty of complaining about WWE over the years here, so don't call me some kind of Vince fanboy when there's zero evidence that I am one.

If anything people who hate the product that much should be obligated to say exactly why they're pissed off. I'm pretty fucking tired of some pseudo-authoritative "it all sucks!" claim that has nothing to back it up. That's just smearing an entire company, including the people who are doing their damn best to put out a good & fun product, out of sheer laziness.


CCharger - 9-7-2018 at 02:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
1) I'll apologize if I went too far, especially with an un-necessary 'Berto comparison

2) I still maintain that a lot of the complaining about WWE these days, and not just from CC, is way out of control. It's gained a life of it's own and is happening now simply because it's now a thing to do. There is no way, despite things like the Roman push, the Sasha/Bayley on/off-again feud, or the KO "I quit" then being back a week later, that WWE is simply doing everything "wrong". It's just not possible. I say that as someone who's done plenty of complaining about WWE over the years here, so don't call me some kind of Vince fanboy when there's zero evidence that I am one.

If anything people who hate the product that much should be obligated to say exactly why they're pissed off. I'm pretty fucking tired of some pseudo-authoritative "it all sucks!" claim that has nothing to back it up. That's just smearing an entire company, including the people who are doing their damn best to put out a good & fun product, out of sheer laziness.

To squash this, I will also apologize if my recent criticism of the current WWE product came off as condescending or insulting. That was absolutely not my intention, but perception can become reality. I never meant to make anyone feel or imply that anyone was stupid for any reason. My bad, and I will strive to be more articulate in the future.

I also want to apologize to Pad. I made a joke at his expense, and rather than lighten the mood, it came off as troll-ish. I didn't mean to piss you off, and if I did, I'm sorry.

Still, I hope that we can all view the WWE with a discerning, critical eye. Extremes exist at both ends of the issue there. There are certainly people with an irrational hatred of the WWE and will shit upon the product no matter what they do. I've tried not to be that guy. I've tried to give reasoned, rational criticisms of aspects of WWE creative without demeaning those that don't share my feelings and without being a constant bitcher and complaining. It seems I need to work harder on that.

Also, there are those at the other extreme that will bend over backwards to defend every creative decision no matter how bad, how confusing, or how dumb, and then dismiss any criticism of those decisions as "trolling".

This place has always been a great space for an exchange of opinions and ideas. I don't want it to become a place where one side shouts down the other side. Hell, I don't even want it to be a place where there are two sides shouting.

So, again, I apologize, and I hope we can all just get along (kinda).


bigfatgoalie - 9-7-2018 at 03:26 PM

Karl Anderson Thanked 2K Games for including his abs in WWE 2K19. How this guy isn’t more over in WWE is beyond me.

If the money is equal, he really should go back to NJPW and take back the Bullet Club.


CCharger - 9-7-2018 at 04:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie


If the money is equal, he really should go back to NJPW and take back the Bullet Club.

This would be awesome. However, in BC related news, the Observer is reporting that Cody, Omega, Page, and the Bucks will be negotiating with the WWE as a group rather than individually so you could potentially see a huge Bullet Club reunion in the WWE in 2019. However, the group also said that signing was only an "option" rather than the ultimate goal.


First 9 - 9-7-2018 at 04:24 PM

Anderson would be a much more compelling opponent to feud with Kenny and Cody over the direction of Bullet Club instead of Tama Tonga.

However, he and Gallows were considering going to TNA before WWE hired them so it's not just be about the money. He might just be done with working overseas.


Kobolos - 9-7-2018 at 04:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger

the Observer is reporting that Cody, Omega, Page, and the Bucks will be negotiating with the WWE as a group rather than individually so you could potentially see a huge Bullet Club reunion in the WWE in 2019.


I'm seeing a serious lack of Marty Scurll in that list.


DKBroiler - 9-7-2018 at 06:34 PM

- I member Vince's turgid penis. You might even call it icOOnic.
- I fucking love Karl Anderson. The guy is absurdly overlooked and under explored. Why the F is his “smoking hot Asian wife” not on TV? Abs Anderson with a 20 year old Gail Kim rip off smells of midcard singles gold.
- Gallows is not good. He’s not bad but he’s the walking definition of a mediocre big man. For example ... Baron Corbin > Luke Gallows.
- CCharger needs to go back to his young Miz avatar. It made his posts seem in character. I liked that.
- I just legally bet $150 on football futures cause New Jersey is the shit. Eat it Janerd!
- And by eat it, I don’t mean literally. We have some toxic shit in our soil. The Pine Barrens are like a pupu platter of 1980s medical waste and the remains of once prominent extras from the Sopranos.


I love you all ... with my fists ... in your butts.


DKBroiler - 9-7-2018 at 06:51 PM

I think a full Bullet Club invasion could have NWO type upside ... and downside.

It’s over enough with the not-quite hardcores that are WWE only fans so it stands virtually no chance of a “who the fuck are these guys” reaction if they all debut at once, but the individual parts - not so much.

Cody would have to be the initial star with Omega as the breakout. Yes, I know Omega’s not a real rookie and may be main eventing WM within a year of debuting but Cody is familiar. He could be the Farooq to Omega’s Rock. The Bucks as tag title contenders is simple enough but once that’s past ... it gets very crowded in WWE when more than 4 people are in a stable.

Would a 8 man Bullet Club work? Are Anderson and Gallows helping? Finn? AJ? By my count there could easily be close to a dozen Bullet Club members that make sense but that’s how we got the NWO Red and NWO white.

Personally I think less is more. Keep a WWE Bullet Club to a half dozen people or less, ideally less.

Also keep in mind that not every great idea transfers and some shit gimmicks inexplicably do. There was not a person on this board who took Elias seriously in NXT and he’s a superstar now. Conversely the Styles vs Nakamura “Dream Match” wasn’t that good. We all assume that Omega will be a world champion super duper star, but it’s not a lock. Cody is probably the key to unlocking Omega’s potential to a wider audience.

[Edited on 9-7-2018 by DKBroiler]


First 9 - 9-7-2018 at 07:22 PM

Also, Bullet Club's nWo-antics got over huge in NJPW because it was new and fresh over there. The whole point of the angle was the negative elements of American wrestling and culture invading the more serious, pristine Japanse wrestling. Getting heat by numerous run-ins and intereference wouldn't work in the land of fuck finishes that is WWE.

So they would have to work with WWE and see how to tweak the act to be more than a just group of friends like the AJ/Gallows/Anderson version from two years back.

It's an interesting thought but I'm going to call BS on them negotiating as a 5-man unit. Omega must have a totally different contract situation than the Bucks and Cody being NJPW's 1b guy and the face of their expansion movement. NJPW is seriously gambling if they had him end Okada's legendary title run and not have him locked up till mid2019 atleast.


CCharger - 9-7-2018 at 07:48 PM

The other thing is that acts from other promotions don't seem to get over quite the same in WWE. Blame it on poor booking or whatever, but it seems true.

NWO and Broken Hardys are the two that spring to mind immediately.


First 9 - 9-7-2018 at 08:35 PM

The nWo did it's job setting up the big Hogan WM match, the build up to Rock vs Hollywood Hulk Hogan was amazing.

After that, how much mileage could they have really gotten out of it? Yeah, it was cool as hell for that first month but once the novelty of the nWo in the WWF wore off it would have been an unreliable Scott Hall, on the verge of tearing his quads Kevin Nash, and Hogan. Not the type of players you can run a six month invasion angle with.

[Edited on 9-7-2018 by First 9]


williamssl - 9-7-2018 at 09:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Not the type of players you can run a six month invasion angle with.




Glad they finally got it right with the able-bodied Nexus when they had the chance


bigfatgoalie - 9-7-2018 at 11:18 PM

Conversely, the WWE did get it right with the SHEILD. All of them are Grand Slam champions.

And I think AJ being a main event guy pretty much from the get go has changed some folks minds about what joining WWE means. Signing there doesn't mean a photo with Triple H and waving from the crowd at Takeover is automatic. Is it the typical route? Yes. But not automatic.

Bringing things back to Anderson, I will say skipping NXT isn't always in talents best interest. Not sure that would have solved all issues, but it might have helped. And hell, maybe if he does resign with WWE, him and Gallows can get a boost either joining with the other former club members, or feuding with them.

If the WWE does sign them that is.


Paddlefoot - 9-7-2018 at 11:40 PM

The easiest way to test the waters would be to re-unite The Good Bros with AJ Styles first, either as AJ's heel heavies or as come kind of tweener-NWO or Shield group. Whether that's first as a face group that gradually goes heel, or one that starts off full heel with a turn by AJ, it should be what they try initially to see how well Bullet Club will be received. And, as Dev said in the MMC thread, add Becky Lynch to the mix as the first female Bullet member because her going hybrid/heel would fit in perfectly with the overall faction vibe.

All the pieces are just waiting there on SD to experiment with. Nothing to lose in giving it a shot before any more club members arrive in WWE from Japan or elsewhere.

[Edited on 9/7/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Count Zero - 9-8-2018 at 02:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Kobolos
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger

the Observer is reporting that Cody, Omega, Page, and the Bucks will be negotiating with the WWE as a group rather than individually so you could potentially see a huge Bullet Club reunion in the WWE in 2019.


I'm seeing a serious lack of Marty Scurll in that list.
I =love= Marty Scurrll, but at the same time... I'm not sure how he would "work" in the WWE without some kind of gimmick-twerk. His look is brilliant, his moveset is pretty-safe, but I'm scurr(ll)ed he'd get lost in the midcard shuffle, or even shunted off to 205Live in an attempt to revive that microbrand.

I mean, I also believe that if anybody could make 205L watchable, it would be THE VILLAIN~! but I'm not always the biggest believer in the WWEriter Dnonkey Squad.


Flash - 9-8-2018 at 03:47 AM

If they are working towards a WWE contract good as I've heard how good they all are, but at the same time I think people are over counting on how well known some of these guys are... Cody because of his time in the WWE is probably the biggest name; I've seen pictures of Omega but couldn't pick the Bucks out of a line up.

Also doesn't NJPW own the wh,ole Bullet Club thing? That means that there would have to be some changes to what they do...

Now there's probably a sizeable enough part of the audience that knows who everyone not named Cody is but I think Styles was the last big white whale as far as the last great non-WWE guy that moves the needle, and that's largely due to his having been on tv for 10 years elsewhere... So probably these guys will get a big pop, but I'm thinking maybe more a Radicalz type entrance where down the line Eddie get's hot more than a come in and right to the top of the card approach for the group.

That's just my thoughts... and honestly with guys like Ambrose, Zayn, Miz, Owens, and Bryan that I do want to see at the top of the card for long runs before I see those guys shoot to the top I hope I'm right.


G. Jonah Jameson - 9-8-2018 at 11:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
I =love= Marty Scurrll, but at the same time... I'm not sure how he would "work" in the WWE without some kind of gimmick-twerk.


Hee hee.


Kobolos - 9-10-2018 at 03:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero


I mean, I also believe that if anybody could make 205L watchable, it would be THE VILLAIN~! but I'm not always the biggest believer in the WWEriter Dnonkey Squad.


At the very least he could go get his umbrella back from Jack Gallagher. (is he still around?)


Flash - 9-10-2018 at 08:57 AM

*Less rumour, and more (guilty pleasure... I like watching people fall off stuff) crap if you've been missing CM Punk and Wade Barrett you can find them both serving as the hosts of Netflix's Ultimate Beast Master game show... Punk is the US play by play guy, and Barrett, under his real name, is the UK guy.

*I mentioned this in my thread on a Foley show I recently went to, but Foley's 20 years of Hell a HITC recollection/stand up comedy show will be coming to the WWE network on September 16... Worth checking out for laughs.

*Heath Slater recently made a plea on his instagram page that "I got signed with WWE when I was 22 years old, I've been through Deep South, Florida Championship Wrestling and The Foundation of WWE NXT I've been in faction after faction and tag team after tag team, none of them actually went the way I hoped." He continued "I just hope that one day before this is all over that I can do things my way. And as a grizzled young vet in the business, I hope that time comes sooner than later."

I'd say that when I look at Slater I see a guy out there who looks like he's having fun, and I'm not sure that translates for whatever reason into being a star... I mean I could see booking him as some kind of improbable loveable loser... But that's good for what a couple months worth of TV? In saying that we've seen him in the WWE for about 8 years now and he's never really been given a shot to show what he can do outside of mostly tag matches or squash matches where he's the guy getting squashed... So who knows what he's capable of. It's kind of that shame of how the WWE is built where you've got a top guy or two, a rotating bevy of challengers or temp top guys, and then a glut in the mid card... Unless you have Vince et al behind you it's next to impossible to break out and heaven forbid you try and you'll wind up being Zack Ryder'd... Truthfully we're probably missing out on a lot of guys who if they were given a genuine and sustained chance might very well be the best part of watching Raw or SD one day... I'm not saying that's Heath Slater necessarily, but really who knows it could be.

*David Arquette is said to be in talks to do something with the WWE.... That's former world champion David Arquette!

*The WWE is currently valued at $6.79 billion dollars, with stock prices sitting at about $87/share

*Lana recently took to Twitter to complain about how the character model of her in WWE 2K19 looks more like Tanya Harding than her... She points out that she has never had the hair do they gave her nor has she ever wore the outfit they put her in. SOooooooo Rusev's going back to jobbing all the time again?

*Stephen "Arrow" Amell who was featured in a match against Christopher Daniels at the recent All In event put over his opponent saying at about 3 minutes in something that he, and everyone else knew would happen happened; He blew up... He put over the show and Daniels, and said that he's likely wrestled his last singles match but hopes there is another All In and hopes to be involved again.

Something that often gets lost that's incredible about wrestlers is just how good of shape they are in, and how legit tough they are... Not just looking good, but the amount of cardio that they must do to be able to do what they do has to be crazy... Amell is a pretty fit guy if you've ever seen him on Arrow doing the Salmon ladder or his spot on American Ninja Warrior, but it just makes you appreciate the extra gear that wrestlers have to hit in order to not look blown up out there after a 20 minute match never mind 3 minutes in.

*Former Swedish Olympian and NJPW (91) WCW (93-95) wrestler Frank Andersson passed away on the 9th of September at age 62. He recently underwent heart surgery and passed away due to related complications.

*Justin Credible was recently released from jail and has a pending court date on October 1st. He is barred from returning home due to a protective order barring him from going near his wife. This is the second stint in the last 30 days for Credible who was initially charged in mid August with felony violation of a protective order and disorderly conduct. He was released and was arrested again last Wednesday for 3rd degree assault, disorderly conduct, and another violation of his protective order. Credible was arrested twice in 2017 breaching a protective order and some misdemeanor disturbance of the peace. Where the story takes a weird turn is that Credible was bailed out by the documentary crew that has been following him around of late for a documentary about his life. In some positive news apparently the condition that the documentary crew put on bailing him out was that he enter a rehab program... So some drama for the documentary, but also here's hoping they have his best interests at heart as well and that he gets the help he needs.


CCharger - 9-10-2018 at 02:00 PM

* Shawn Michaels is penciled in to act as special guest referee in the HHH/Taker match in Saudi Arabia. However, it possible that match could become HHH/Michaels vs. Taker/Kane.


Gobshite - 9-10-2018 at 02:39 PM

DX vs Taker and Kane? Sweet!! In 1998...

Lana has had that hair do. And did wear that outfit for some photo shoots. She never had that hair and that outfit as a combo on TV, but folk on twitter have been relatively quick to point out she has had both at various points. She changes her hair and clothes so fucking much on instagram, she’s probably forgot. I’ve never known anyone in her position be such a blatant attention seeker; the daily “what colour should my hair be?” Or “what’s your favourite outfit?” Is very annoying...

Renee Young is now a permanent member of the raw announce team. Bye Coach.


GodEatGod - 9-10-2018 at 04:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gobshite
I’ve never known anyone in her position be such a blatant attention seeker; the daily “what colour should my hair be?” Or “what’s your favourite outfit?” Is very annoying...



Yeah, that's crazy, posting pictures of herself and talking to her fans on a social media platform designed for...posting pictures of herself and talking to her fans.


janerd75 - 9-10-2018 at 05:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gobshite
DX vs Taker and Kane? Sweet!! In 1998...

Renee Young is now a permanent member of the raw announce team. Bye Coach.


As to the first, sign me right the fuck up! It's wrasslin', just loosen yer bunger and let it happen. Trust me, it's easier that way. Much less tearing.

As to the second, it's gonna continue to get more and more awkward the little to no acknowledgment they allow her to give that it's her husband getting the shit kicked out of him every once in a while or she just goes silent during his matches. I guess it would maaaaybe bother me a bit less if they weren't prominently displayed by WWE on TWOODNAAVE with the obviousness of their relationship. It's like that annoying feeling I get watching the Marvel Netflix shows that vaguely kinda sorta implied that they were associated with the greater MCU like AoS and the films, but not really. And they suffered because of it as the NetMCU has some of the most popular and important heroes in it, yet they don't get to crossover with everyone else.

LOOK, I LOVE DEAN AND R-PAC JUMP OFF MY DICK ALRIGHT!!!


First 9 - 9-10-2018 at 07:03 PM

Wonder what would they do if/when Ambrose turns heel? Have Renee stay a face commentator for everybody else and make Ambrose the only heel she supports?


Flash - 9-10-2018 at 07:52 PM

I think that's where they made a mistake last week; they should have had Rene leave the announce desk... You could have had someone like Drew hold her while the beat down happened which would have put extra heat on everyone and the angle.

If/When Ambrose goes heel I guess it depends how meta they would want to go with it... a twitter post or mock statement from a fake press agent that they have separated... Yeah people would see through it but a little twitter "real" piled on to whatever on screen stuff they do could muddy the waters enough. Rene is sooooo well liked that any slight to her would put major heat on anyone... Dean could be a dick to her, she could take a week or two off TV then come back... She doesn't have to bury him during his matches just the odd comment here or there... Result: Dean's got major heat on him (in addition to whatever heat he has from the turn and who he's feuding with) and him and Rene are effectively separated on TV.


CCharger - 9-10-2018 at 07:53 PM

There is clearly only one solution: Dean and Renee must divorce.


bigfatgoalie - 9-10-2018 at 08:33 PM

I’ll take awkwardness of Dean beatdowns over Coach/Saxton/Otunga/Booker bringing nothing to the table.

Seriously, Cole and Graves not making fun of the 3rd member is a huge improvement. That alone makes Renee the best option. Besides that, she has been good to ok behind the desk. Considering she’s still just getting her feet wet, and how good she has been in her other roles, her upside is huge.


Kobolos - 9-11-2018 at 02:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Shawn Michaels is penciled in to act as special guest referee in the HHH/Taker match in Saudi Arabia. However, it possible that match could become HHH/Michaels vs. Taker/Kane.


Australia.

And Kane has other duties right now, he can't be flying halfway along the world. There is still Mayorial office furniture to assemble!


Flash - 9-11-2018 at 03:55 AM

Last comments I heard from Kane were that he'd still be with the WWE from time to time; most politicians at a local level usually keep a (day) job... Municipal offices don't generally pay that much, and after your term you still need to work if you aren't elected again... Although looking it up it looks like Kane will earn about $180k a year as mayor which pretty much completely undermines what I just said... D'Oh.


Gobshite - 9-11-2018 at 11:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod

Yeah, that's crazy, posting pictures of herself and talking to her fans on a social media platform designed for...posting pictures of herself and talking to her fans.


Maybe “attention seeking” was the wrong phrase... I do find it attention seeking, but her posts are all really fucking child like and shallow. Last five pictures have the captions:

Tell me what you do for work with emojis!
Tell me what you’re doing this weekend with emojis!
What’s your dream car?
Caption this
If you could pick a superpower, what would it be?

Compared to the other women wrestlers on IG, who you know- post grown up sentences, thank you’s, heart felt messages etc. Lana just comes off as desperate.


Matte - 9-11-2018 at 03:49 PM

To me, that just looks like an easy and fun way to interact with fans; although, I see how it could appear childish (adults using emoji?!?). A heartfelt message and thank you is perfectly acceptable, but it shows a different intention: to tell the fans something/to give a monologue. Lana's questions open up the conversation for a dialogue between her and the fans, making them feel more involved in what she's posting. Plus, it's an easy way to gain more comments, which means better social media numbers, which means WWE management will like her more.


salmonjunkie - 9-11-2018 at 04:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Gobshite
Last five pictures have the captions:

Tell me what you do for work with emojis!
Tell me what you’re doing this weekend with emojis!
What’s your dream car?
Caption this
If you could pick a superpower, what would it be?

Compared to the other women wrestlers on IG, who you know- post grown up sentences, thank you’s, heart felt messages etc.


Full sentences? The girl went to Florida State. What do you expect?


Flash - 9-11-2018 at 04:57 PM

Meh, I just see it as her playing a part... I mean we celebrate her for her beauty and not her other talents thus she's apt to play into what brought her to the dance; I don't see it as her being dim (not trying to put words in anyone's mouth), she just knows her audience and what sells.

Sometimes it's best when celebs don't venture a real opinion or a glimpse inside their genuine thoughts as more often than not we get a Gwyneth Paltrow Goop or conscious uncoupling, Jenny McCarthy vaccinations lead to autism type deal, or even a well intentioned Matt Damon stepping on a land mine weighing in on the Me Too stuff when they do try and take a stance on something beyond looking pretty and plugging their business dealings. It's the old adage about a fool opening their mout and removing all doubt... Celebs have nowhere to go but down, especially in today's gotcha and divisive environment on social media.


Paddlefoot - 9-11-2018 at 06:05 PM

Lana doesn't stay quiet when her image gets botched in merchandise. Her first Mattel figure was a joke, it looked more like Nicole Bass than her, so she rightfully yapped about it big time on her accounts. I doubt she'll get in trouble. It's a two-way street with the toys and video games people so it's on them to not make the talent look like idiots or Shrek or something else ridiculous when they create them. With the money and tech that goes into these things these days, like since McFarlane Toys (for example) showed what can be done with them for the last couple of decades now, there's no excuse for them to put out a poor product.


bigfatgoalie - 9-11-2018 at 07:05 PM

I know Omega/Cody/Bucks are getting the most attention regarding if they will sign with WWE, but 2 other names may be posing for a picture with Triple H in 2019: Pentagon and Fenix.

While Fenix is small, Pentagón being 5’11” and 207lbs seems like he’s big enough.

Given WWE’s desire for a Latino star, it’d make sense to sign both. And given Pentagón is 33, I wouldn’t blame him for wanting to get paid.


In other news...Sabu is not a fan of Renee Young’s promotion. I’ll let those interested search for his inappropriate tweet. It’s....not good.


CCharger - 9-11-2018 at 09:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie

In other news...Sabu is not a fan of Renee Young’s promotion. I’ll let those interested search for his inappropriate tweet. It’s....not good.

THE DISRESPECTFUL, HOMOPHOBIC, MISOGYNISTIC MANIAC!


Flash - 9-11-2018 at 11:32 PM

He's since deleted it, but man what an asshole...

Wrestling's a small fraternity, I'm surprised that he continues to get booked even after some of his insulting comments about the spate of wrestler deaths from last moth.


bigfatgoalie - 9-12-2018 at 12:34 AM

So there's an image going around apparently showing the rundown for the Evolution PPV. Avoid it if you are spoiler cautious.

That being said, Bayley's main roster blunders loom to continue.

[Edited on 9-12-2018 by bigfatgoalie]

[Edited on 9-12-2018 by bigfatgoalie]


DevilSoprano - 9-12-2018 at 12:42 AM

Brie vs. Maryse should almost be a given at this point.

MELINA????

Kelly Kelly & Alicia Fox in a title match?

Asuka vs. Ember is great on paper but makes no sense and neither should really be taking a loss here.

Agreed on Bayley/Sasha not being in the tag title match making no sense (if there is a tag title being introduced.) That match should probably be IIconics, Riotts, Paige's Ex Team, Bayley/Sasha, Beth/Nattie. You could use Ruby, Liv, or Logan on a more one-off match.


Paddlefoot - 9-12-2018 at 12:47 AM

Bad downgrading for Carmella too if she's getting shoved into some dumb talk-show angle after being SD champ and the first ever women's MITB winner. Hopefully this leak is just some internet/dirtsheet mischief instead of the way that WWE has this division and this PPV plotted out.


bigfatgoalie - 9-12-2018 at 12:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
Brie vs. Maryse should almost be a given at this point.

MELINA????

Kelly Kelly & Alicia Fox in a title match?

Asuka vs. Ember is great on paper but makes no sense and neither should really be taking a loss here.

Agreed on Bayley/Sasha not being in the tag title match making no sense (if there is a tag title being introduced.) That match should probably be IIconics, Riotts, Paige's Ex Team, Bayley/Sasha, Beth/Nattie. You could use Ruby, Liv, or Logan on a more one-off match.


DevilSop's post give you most of the big point while avoid spoilers my post originally contained.


Flash - 9-12-2018 at 01:21 AM

I think holding off team Bossy Hug being in the tag title match, assuming the list is true, makes sense as look at the rest of the proposed card; There are a lot of big matches on there to sell the card already and you've gotta hold something back to keep the women's division happening at the next PPV. If those two don't win the title it hurts their need to stay together... if they do they're the dominant tag team. This way they are protected in a fashion, you can have a heel group win the tat titles, and then work towards these ladies getting the titles in the near future where their winning the titles (or whatever fate becomes them) will stand out as a big deal instead of being buried amongst so many legends coming back and other big title matches.


bigfatgoalie - 9-12-2018 at 03:37 PM

There are rumblings that Vince is gaga for Almas and Vega, which could result in Andrade winning the Rumble and getting the main event spot at Mania.

So...does this mean the era of Boo-drade is upon us?


CCharger - 9-12-2018 at 03:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
There are rumblings that Vince is gaga for Almas and Vega, which could result in Andrade winning the Rumble and getting the main event spot at Mania.

So...does this mean the era of Boo-drade is upon us?

If this happens I will eat my own underwear.

There have been plenty of guys that Vince has been "gaga" for (or rumored to be) that never got hotshotted like that. I mean the guy goes from NXT to main eventing Wrestlemania in one year? I think that would be unprecedented, no?


TownOfDalem - 9-12-2018 at 03:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I mean the guy goes from NXT to main eventing Wrestlemania in one year? I think that would be unprecedented, no?


Nakamura's first Mania was a match for the title after winning the rumble.


Matte - 9-12-2018 at 04:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I mean the guy goes from NXT to main eventing Wrestlemania in one year? I think that would be unprecedented, no?

Nakamura's first Mania was a match for the title after winning the rumble.

Asuka's, also.


First 9 - 9-12-2018 at 04:29 PM

Eh, there's a difference between a world title match at WM and a world title match as the Main event of WM. I can buy Andrade getting the Nakamura treatment, not so sure about him becoming the first full timer besides Reigns to main event WM in the last 4 years.


bigfatgoalie - 9-12-2018 at 04:54 PM

So this is just me combining rumours, but let’s look at things floating around regarding Mania:

1) Vince wants Roman to have the belt going in to Mania

2) Vince wants Roman to retain at Mania

3) Vince wants to have Andrade win the Rumble and msin event Mania

1 + 2 + 3 = Roman vs Almas at Mania #lolromanwins

It’d be no different than HBK getting his first taste of Mania’s main event as a Rumble winner, without walking out with the belt.


Matte - 9-12-2018 at 04:58 PM

Agreed with First 9. I take the rumor of "Vince might give Andrade the main event spot at Mania" as meaning Andrade could be challenging for the SmackDown world title, not that Andrade could be closing out the show. We've seen that the term "main event" doesn't necessarily mean "last match" by WWE's standards. They've claimed before that shows have had multiple main events. World title matches, special stipulation matches, Undertaker matches...they're all main events in WWE's eyes.

[Edited on 9-12-2018 by Matte]


CCharger - 9-12-2018 at 05:05 PM

* There are Twitter rumors that WWE is looking at Nikki Bella challenging Rousey for the RAW title at Mania.

* There are also rumors that there will be a women's tag title that will float between brands and that the Bellas are the #1 choice to occupy them.

TL;DR: Total Bellas.


TownOfDalem - 9-12-2018 at 05:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Agreed with First 9. I take the rumor of "Vince might give Andrade the main event spot at Mania" as meaning Andrade could be challenging for the SmackDown world title, not that Andrade could be closing out the show. We've seen that the term "main event" doesn't necessarily mean "last match" by WWE's standards. They've claimed before that shows have had multiple main events. World title matches, special stipulation matches, Undertaker matches...they're all main events in WWE's eyes.


Matte is correct. Nakamura won the right to main event Wrestlemania just like Orton the year before. Main event doesn't literally mean final match anymore. Should it? I'd agrue yes, but it clearly doesn't.


CCharger - 9-13-2018 at 02:45 PM

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/dwayne-rock-johnsons-daughter-training-wwe-185314300.html

The Rock's daughter Simone is training at the Performance Center part time while she finishes high school.


Matte - 9-13-2018 at 04:40 PM

Batista says he wasn't invited to SmackDown 1000.


Surprise surprise!! I wasn’t invited! And it’s in my hometown.! 😳.. guess by now I shouldn’t be shocked anymore. https://t.co/r1NwUNlRnf

— Dave Bautista (@DaveBautista) September 13, 2018




I remember he talked with WWE management about facing Triple H at Mania 35 before they stopped responding to him. He then reached out to Triple H himself about it and said he got no response. What's the deal with WWE and Batista? You'd think they'd be all over the idea of him coming in and doing a program, especially when he's the one saying he wants to do it.


First 9 - 9-13-2018 at 05:35 PM

There has to be something weird going on, he's shat on them many times in interviews but being a genuine Hollywood star who wants to work house shows you'd think WWE would look the other way.

[Edited on 9-13-2018 by First 9]


CCharger - 9-13-2018 at 05:51 PM

I might take heat for this, buttfuck it.

This is the new WWE. This is HHH's WWE. The transition from how Vince runs things to how HHH would run things has been happening with greater speed.

Vince is a guy who doesn't usually hold a grudge. He might hate you, but if he thinks he can make money off of you, he'll bring you back.

HHH is more sensitive. If you offend him or piss him off, you're dead to him. It doesn't matter if you are a big star or might make the company money. HHH, unlike Vince, thinks, fuck this guy, we'll make money with someone else - one of OUR guys.

I think the days of Hogan, Warrior, and Cornette being welcomed back are over. Once you cross WWE, HHH is done with you forever.


bigfatgoalie - 9-13-2018 at 06:08 PM

That’s very possible, and maybe probable. In a case like Punk, I’d assume it to be 100% the case.

Although Triple H is credited with mending fences with Bruno. And there’s the Savage thing where Vince apparently hated the guy.

I think it’s mostly a wrestling thing. Guys get blacklisted, and possible unlisted for a lot of stupid reasons.

Possibly another factor: Big Dave’s political leanings, mostly regarding President Cheeto.


Matte - 9-13-2018 at 06:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
There has to be something weird going on, he's shat on them many times in interviews but being a genuine Hollywood star who wants to work house shows you'd think WWE would look the other way.

You'd think so. How many times had Mick Foley ranted on Facebook about problems with WWE and they still brought him in as GM.

RE: CCharger - Do you know what Batista did to offend Triple H? It seems like Batista assumed they were cool; he wanted to retire at Mania against Triple H.


DKBroiler - 9-13-2018 at 06:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I might take heat for this, buttfuck it.

This is the new WWE. This is HHH's WWE. The transition from how Vince runs things to how HHH would run things has been happening with greater speed.

Vince is a guy who doesn't usually hold a grudge. He might hate you, but if he thinks he can make money off of you, he'll bring you back.

HHH is more sensitive. If you offend him or piss him off, you're dead to him. It doesn't matter if you are a big star or might make the company money. HHH, unlike Vince, thinks, fuck this guy, we'll make money with someone else - one of OUR guys.

I think the days of Hogan, Warrior, and Cornette being welcomed back are over. Once you cross WWE, HHH is done with you forever.


Honestly man, I think you nailed it. There is no logical reason why Batista isn’t on the short list of celebrities they’d be tripping over. Sure, he’s not The Rock but he is an absolute action star nowadays. There is a heck of a lot more money in a Batista return now than 5 years ago.

Maybe it’s not HHH but I’d be surprised if there wasn’t some sort of grudge between either he or Steph.

Also, let’s not forget that Batista’s money is always a potential sticking point. There is a big difference between, “how about a limited schedule and Daniel Bryan money” and “I want $500,000 per appearance and a million per match”.


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2018 at 06:44 PM

Hunter got back into business with Road Dogg and Billy Gunn after the crapped all over him in interviews back when they were chronically drunk & stoned. Dogg is now a main agent and they gave Billy that gig at the Performance Center as a trainer until he botched it by doing juice for his bodybuilding career. Same with Brian Hendrick who did a few of those stoned "WWE sucks!" shoot interviews too - came back with little or no hesitation. And he or Steph make no attempt to block any Bret Hart return if Vince thinks they can use him, despite Bret inevitably blaming Trips for everything under the sun anytime anyone sticks a mic in his face to give him another chance to vent.

The only one I'd see Hunter vetoing returning would be Scott Steiner, because he's legit insane and has made it way-past-personal by calling Steph a whore and a c**t in too many interviews. I'd even seen Punk returning without interference from Trips because he seemed kind of surprised about Punk's bitterness and claimed he never had any idea about how pissed off he'd become due to Punk's habit of keeping everything to himself - Hunter effectively said that he never had a real conversation with Punk that went any further than "naw, everything's fine, I'm fine" in the entire time that Punk was with WWE.

[Edited on 9/13/2018 by Paddlefoot]


DKBroiler - 9-13-2018 at 06:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Hunter got back into business with Road Dogg and Billy Gunn after the crapped all over him in interviews back when they were chronically drunk & stoned. Dogg is now a main agent and they gave Billy that gig at the Performance Center as a trainer until he botched it by doing juice for his bodybuilding career. Same with Brian Hendrick who did a few of those stoned "WWE sucks!" shoot interviews too - came back with little or no hesitation. And he or Steph make no attempt to block any Bret Hart return if Vince thinks they can use him, despite Bret inevitably blaming Trips for everything under the sun anytime anyone sticks a mic in his face to give him another chance to vent.

The only one I'd see Hunter vetoing returning would be Scott Steiner, because he's legit insane and has made it way-past-personal by calling Steph a whore and a c**t in too many interviews. I'd even seen Punk returning without interference from Trips because he seemed kind of surprised about Punk's bitterness and claimed he never had any idea about how pissed off he'd become due to Punk's habit of keeping everything to himself - Hunter effectively said that he never had a real conversation with Punk that went any further than "naw, everything's fine, I'm fine" in the entire time that Punk was with WWE.

[Edited on 9/13/2018 by Paddlefoot]


All good points.

It’s gotta be Batista’s financial demands. I often forget how Occam’s Razor works but I’m pretty sure it’s “when something weird happens that’s unexplainable ... something, something ... it’s money.”


nOOb - 9-13-2018 at 07:12 PM

Tommaso Ciampa got left off the WWE 2K19 roster for no apparent reason. Apparently Ciampa threw out a response on Twitter to why, but it was deleted. His response:

"A lot of people are wondering why The Champ is not in the game.

Well, it’s quite simple. I’m The Champ for a reason. I don’t lose. Not in real life. Sure as hell not in your fantasy world. "

Man, he just gets it.


williamssl - 9-13-2018 at 07:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Tommaso Ciampa got left off the WWE 2K19 roster for no apparent reason. Apparently Ciampa threw out a response on Twitter to why, but it was deleted. His response:

"A lot of people are wondering why The Champ is not in the game.

Well, it’s quite simple. I’m The Champ for a reason. I don’t lose. Not in real life. Sure as hell not in your fantasy world. "

Man, he just gets it.




Flash - 9-13-2018 at 09:41 PM

Ciampa getting left off the game probably stings him a bit; I remember listening to an interview (I want to say Prichard?) where they talked about RVD being in the WWE and how Laurenaitis and all the higher ups kept pressuring him to resign with them when he'd made it clear that he just wanted a hiatus for a while... They then basically threatened that if he wasn't under contract then he couldn't be in the next WWE game... He didn't resign and was left off the game despite another guy (some other ECW guy I think) being in the same boat but he got his $75k cheque for the game and RVD did not...

Now with the game going to more than 180 different wrestlers I'm guessing that they've probably rejigged the pay schedule for video game appearances... like either lowered what everyone gets or WWE guys get so much and NXT guys get so much... but either way, to just get left off the game hurts the wallet.

Speaking of wallets... I can't see money being the big sticking point for Batista... He's threatened to walk away from the Guardians franchise over James Gunn's firing and that's gotta be worth a bit of cash for him, and there's been other stories about him picking up tabs for hotels and travel for lower card guys or paying fines from Vince for other talent... I'm sure he knows what he's worth but he also doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that's that worried about money... I mean he wants to work house shows for the WWE, generally speaking TV pays a lot more for them.

So when will the Batista stories start... will he be HHH's Macho man? Like did he dig up HHH's grandma and plough her?


G. Jonah Jameson - 9-13-2018 at 11:28 PM

I could see other reasons for leaving Batista off the show.

For one, they're almost certainly going to try to get the Rock for it, and maybe they don't think they'll have time for two separate "big Hollywood star interacts with current star(s)" segments in two hours. For another, they might not know who to program him with, since they can't be sure whether the live crowd will cheer him as a returning star and big-name actor, or boo him as a guy they associate with something bad happening to Daniel Bryan.


ejspoon - 9-13-2018 at 11:28 PM

[So when will the Batista stories start... will he be HHH's Macho man? Like did he dig up HHH's grandma and plough her?





Worse (better?) Threesome with GrammaH and Katie Vick

You're welcome


Count Zero - 9-14-2018 at 01:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
It’s gotta be Batista’s financial demands. I often forget how Occam’s Razor works but I’m pretty sure it’s “when something weird happens that’s unexplainable ... something, something ... it’s money.”
I just checked wikipedia, and that's exactly what it says.

(Fun Fact: I learned about Occam's Razor by watching House, M.D.)


CVD39 - 9-14-2018 at 09:06 AM

^^^I first heard of it from Fallout 3. It was some random bosses weapon.


nOOb - 9-14-2018 at 09:46 AM

I learned it from Scrubs. I don’t think anyone learned that term from actual learning books.


CamstunPWG187 - 9-14-2018 at 10:40 AM

Another thing, if HHH has a grudge against Batista, is that HHH might really resent him for how he left the business after putting him over clean on 3 straight PPV’s. Don’t forget, the entire first half of the year for RAW in 2005 was putting Dave Batista over as the new leader of the WWE, along with Cena.

HHH might really resent Dave for just going off to Hollywood after being, what an old-school guy like HHH might feel, made to be THE GUY.

I dunno, just spitballing here.


niles81 - 9-14-2018 at 11:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
It’s gotta be Batista’s financial demands. I often forget how Occam’s Razor works but I’m pretty sure it’s “when something weird happens that’s unexplainable ... something, something ... it’s money.”
I just checked wikipedia, and that's exactly what it says.
(Fun Fact: I learned about Occam's Razor by watching House, M.D.)

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
I learned it from Scrubs. I don’t think anyone learned that term from actual learning books.


Incidentally - while I'm not entirely certain where I originally first heard the expression - it was pro-wrestling (and specifically NXT) that had it reinforced in my memory. I'm fairly certain the individual names of the Authors of Pain (Akam and Rezar) is a nu-metalized illiteration of the the phrase "Occam's Razor". Something something the simplest explanation is ruining your shit so sayeth the book of pain type bullshit. Basically the Authors of Pain rule.


CCharger - 9-14-2018 at 01:20 PM

Batista is also good friends with Punk, which I imagine would get almost anyone blackballed at this point.

Is could be fun...

Curt Hawkins will be hosting a series on the Network that focuses on the most famous jobbers/losers in wrestling history.

[Edited on 9-14-2018 by CCharger]


denverpunk - 9-14-2018 at 01:50 PM

I think Batista is in Jericho territory, where he doesn’t need WWE. Even though he could still draw, the fed hasn’t shown tendencies to put up well with guys who do their own thing and aren’t afraid to tell them to fuck off when necessary. He just doesn’t play ball their way, which means he’s not a priority for them.


DKBroiler - 9-14-2018 at 01:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
I could see other reasons for leaving Batista off the show.

For one, they're almost certainly going to try to get the Rock for it, and maybe they don't think they'll have time for two separate "big Hollywood star interacts with current star(s)" segments in two hours. For another, they might not know who to program him with, since they can't be sure whether the live crowd will cheer him as a returning star and big-name actor, or boo him as a guy they associate with something bad happening to Daniel Bryan.


I completely believe this and yet it’s so stupid if it’s true. The only reason that BooTista became a thing is because he won the Rumble when the whole world wanted Daniel Bryan to win it (also why everyone hates Roman to this day).

Hell, here is a way to lean into that and have it go like gang busters.

1) Rumble entrant 30 ... Bryan is in the ring ... Batista is the surprise number 30 but to avoid the Pavlov’s dog booing you change the first 10 seconds of his music to “Hooked on a Feeling” before the Batista riff starts. That instantly flags Batista as a good guy. He is eliminated by Bryan who wins the Rumble.

2) The next Smackdown Batista interrupts Bryan’s celebration ... to congratulate him. “I was wrong about you 5 years ago. I’m not wrong now. You deserve it.” Everyone does the you deserve it chant, they shake hands and ...

3) The Miz interrupts saying only he deserves it, and blah blah blah Miz. We can then logically transition from the dead horse of Miz vs Bryan to Miz vs Batista at Wrestlemania in a Battle of A Listers. Bryan can move onto AJ in the wanker Dream Match.

This isn’t that hard. I want my video game check!


First 9 - 9-14-2018 at 02:19 PM

Besides the Bryan thing, he also, you know, sucked. He was rough to watch during that Rumble, with the shitty looking offense and constantly being out of breath then there was the turd of a feud with Del Rio.When Batista was talking about his 2014 run he would go on and on about his series of matches with Dolph Ziggler and the multiple matches with the Shield, all stuff that happened two months after his return. Even he doesn't think of highly of those brutal first months. Yeah, the crowd turned on him because of Bryan but he had nothing to win them over with.

If he spends some time shaking off the ring rust before his first few matches and isn't running out of breath five minutes into the ring, his chances of getting a positive reatcion drastically go up.


DKBroiler - 9-14-2018 at 02:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Besides the Bryan thing, he also, you know, sucked. He was rough to watch during that Rumble, with the shitty looking offense and constantly being out of breath then there was the turd of a feud with Del Rio.When Batista was talking about his 2014 run he would go on and on about his series of matches with Dolph Ziggler and the multiple matches with the Shield, all stuff that happened two months after his return. Even he doesn't think of highly of those brutal first months. Yeah, the crowd turned on him because of Bryan but he had nothing to win them over with.

If he spends some time shaking off the ring rust before his first few matches and isn't running out of breath five minutes into the ring, his chances of getting a positive reatcion drastically go up.


Agree to disagree. For “hardcore” fans, sure. For typical WWE fans, nope. A big part of the crowd wouldn’t even notice things like blowing up. During that time though, they absolutely would notice “my guy Daniel Bryan got screwed!”

Also, skinny pants. The skinny pants were a terrible idea.


Dyn-O-Mite - 9-14-2018 at 02:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
I learned it from Scrubs. I don’t think anyone learned that term from actual learning books.


The movie Contact (Jodie Foster/Matthew McConaughey). It's based on a book, does that count?


DKBroiler - 9-14-2018 at 02:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dyn-O-Mite
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
I learned it from Scrubs. I don’t think anyone learned that term from actual learning books.


The movie Contact (Jodie Foster/Matthew McConaughey). It's based on a book, does that count?


I believe I first heard about it in college but I was in a meeting on Tuesday and a new middle manager used it to sound smart so it was fresh in my mind.


Like Becky Lynch in nerd glasses.



First 9 - 9-14-2018 at 03:28 PM

I think we aren't that far off DK, I agree that Bryan's popularity is the reason people turned on him my point was that Batista's underwhelming performance(on the mic and the ring) gave the crowd nothing to hold on to so the boos kept coming.

Smarky crowds have given HHH(when he's a face) and Cena shit plenty of times but they always win atleast a portion of the crowd back with,meanwhile Batista just invited more boos with the forgettable mic work, boring matches and the skinny jeans.


bigfatgoalie - 9-14-2018 at 04:50 PM

Lots going on in this Ric Flair wedding pic but my focus is on Taker doublefisting whiskeys *in the same hand* pic.twitter.com/BozDUEtwZc

— Patrick Monahan (@pattymo) September 14, 2018


Paddlefoot - 9-14-2018 at 05:54 PM

* Iron Sheik makes today somewhat less horrible by participating in a Twitter hashtag game, specifically #InThe80sWe

#InThe80sWe SUPLEXED THE JABRONIS

— The Iron Sheik (@the_ironsheik) September 14, 2018



* Dean Ambrose said that he was in pretty bad condition after his second surgery on his injured triceps when he caught a *staph infection; he ended up in hospital for a week on an IV of high-powered antibiotics because of it

* a real staph infection, diagnosed by an actual doctor, not a cyst on his ass of the "I'm gonna die!" variety, or of the "it's all Triple-H's fault" type either

[Edited on 9/14/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Matte - 9-14-2018 at 07:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
not a cyst on his ass of the "I'm gonna die!" variety,

Not on the ass, but according to him, it was of the "I'm gonna die" variety.

"I ended up having two different surgeries. I had this MRSA, Staph infection. I nearly died. I was in the hospital for a week plugged up to this antibiotic drip thing, and I was on all these antibiotics for months that make you puke and crap your pants."


First 9 - 9-14-2018 at 07:32 PM

Also, a pretty amusing comment on his former title as the Ironman of the WWE.

'' I heard that, and that was nice, but that’s a title that’s worth exactly zero dollars. So I’ll let somebody else have that. I’m ready to move on.''


denverpunk - 9-14-2018 at 07:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Also, a pretty amusing comment on his former title as the Ironman of the WWE.

'' I heard that, and that was nice, but that’s a title that’s worth exactly zero dollars. So I’ll let somebody else have that. I’m ready to move on.''


That is pretty funny, but not exactly true. If being a workhorse nets him more PPV bonuses than a guy who doesn’t work as hard, then Ambrose is actually benefiting financially from it.


Paddlefoot - 9-14-2018 at 08:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
not a cyst on his ass of the "I'm gonna die!" variety,

Not on the ass, but according to him, it was of the "I'm gonna die" variety.

"I ended up having two different surgeries. I had this MRSA, Staph infection. I nearly died. I was in the hospital for a week plugged up to this antibiotic drip thing, and I was on all these antibiotics for months that make you puke and crap your pants."


I was trying more for a cheap shot on CM Punk than anything to do with Ambrose. Not that there's anything funny about staph infections, other than Punk's claim at having one becoming part of his myth despite being firmly debunked at the Amman court cast. Just one of those things now for the urban legends of wrasslin' department to try to square away.

Good to see Ambrose is OK though.


Count Zero - 9-14-2018 at 09:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Curt Hawkins will be hosting a series on the Network that focuses on the most famous jobbers/losers in wrestling history.

[Edited on 9-14-2018 by CCharger]
... Oh my god. That is actually BRILLIANT. Like... One of my "most significant wrestling memories" is when BARRY F'N HOROWITZ finally won a match on tv.

Also, "jobber winning in upset" is what gave us the 1-2-3 Kid... Okay, so at least one episode is doomed to X-Pac Heat, but the rest of the series should be pretty fantastic.

Alseaux (that's the french plural of Also... or I'm just pulling words out of my ass now, You Make The Call!), I'm enjoying the Occam's Razor conversation. It's one of those things that (it seems) a lot of people have learned about from a lot of different places. Nifty how that works out.


G. Jonah Jameson - 9-14-2018 at 10:11 PM

I'm almost sure I learned about Occam's Razor from a "Dilbert" comic, so that at least counts as reading, if not as a book per se.


Matte - 9-15-2018 at 07:07 PM

205 Live moving to Wednesday. They're going to have to change the name, aren't they?

Starting next week, @WWE205Live heads to Wednesday nights at 7pm ET on the award-winning @WWENetwork! #205Live

— 205Live (@WWE205Live) September 15, 2018


janerd75 - 9-15-2018 at 07:55 PM

205WWEdnesday. This shit just writes itself.


dxlevy72 - 9-16-2018 at 01:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
I learned it from Scrubs. I don’t think anyone learned that term from actual learning books.


I have a PhD in Philosophy. I learned it from reading books.


Paddlefoot - 9-16-2018 at 01:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by dxlevy72

...I have a PhD in Philosophy...




Just goofin'


ejspoon - 9-16-2018 at 01:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by dxlevy72
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
I learned it from Scrubs. I don’t think anyone learned that term from actual learning books.


I have a PhD in Philosophy. I learned it from reading books.


I have a (very expensive and very much unused) JD. I learned it from books, but the old Star Trek TOS novel series. What DID I pay for?


ejspoon - 9-16-2018 at 01:54 PM

(Not really clever enough to post twice)

[Edited on 9-16-2018 by ejspoon]


Flash - 9-16-2018 at 06:43 PM

Jeez; We might need to rename this thread to "Rumour Crap 2018 AND Do you have an English degree, and when did you first encounter Occam's Razor?"

What's next; things that turn you on but really shouldn't? (Let's not ask that one... Janerd posts here).

... and because you all wondered, I believe I first encountered the term Occam's Razor as like an 8 or 9 year old reading old Sherlock Holmes stories... although really, who knows?

ETA: Anyone see Gene Snitsky lately? Dude looks crazy... Like Braun Strowman's dad or something https://www.instagram.com/therealsnitsky/

[Edited on 9-16-2018 by Flash]


janerd75 - 9-16-2018 at 08:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash

What's next; things that turn you on but really shouldn't? (Let's not ask that one... Janerd posts here).





Count Zero - 9-17-2018 at 02:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Jeez; We might need to rename this thread to "Rumour Crap 2018 AND Do you have an English degree, and when did you first encounter Occam's Razor?"

What's next; things that turn you on but really shouldn't? (Let's not ask that one... Janerd posts here).

... and because you all wondered, I believe I first encountered the term Occam's Razor as like an 8 or 9 year old reading old Sherlock Holmes stories..

Let's go with "Random Conversation Via Website Which Occasionally Contains Unverifiable Or Verified Rumor Type Things". RCVWWOCUOVRTT for short. Kind of our own homegrown TWOODNAAVE.

Also, remember to plug in the Janerd. He needs recharging after all that being turned on.

Furtheralso (Ye gads I need a better transitional phrase-set....), I've read all the Holmeses, and completely derped on Occam's Razor essentially being Sherlock's M.O. "When you have eliminated everything else, whatever remains -- however improbable -- must be true." I guess what threw me is that the words "Occam" and "Razor" didn't specifically appear, but.. Yup. Good insight on your part.

ETA: Wooo! 3003 Posts!! Milestone and PALINDROOOOOOOOOOOOME!

[Edited on 9-17-2018 by Count Zero]


CVD39 - 9-17-2018 at 10:14 AM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
quote:
Originally posted by Flash

What's next; things that turn you on but really shouldn't? (Let's not ask that one... Janerd posts here).







That guy was fucking sick (well, not the actor but the real life guy he portrayed).

Fucking sick, I tell ya.


CCharger - 9-17-2018 at 03:08 PM

* Shawn Michaels could made his in-ring return at Survivor Series

* When Smackdown debuts on FOX, it expected to get a complete makeover. New colors, new graphics, new ramp, new video displays, new production style. WWE wants to re-boot the whole concept/look.

* WWE is looking to bring back managers/valets in 2019 in a big way.

* Riddle/Ohno has already been penciled in for NXT Takeover: Los Angeles

* Matt Hardy is expected to remain with WWE as a producer/agent


Matte - 9-17-2018 at 03:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* When Smackdown debuts on FOX, it expected to get a complete makeover. New colors, new graphics, new ramp, new video displays, new production style. WWE wants to re-boot the whole concept/look.

With the only color really associated with SmackDown being blue, you have to assume this means adopting an entirely new color scheme. I'm all for changing up the set design to differ it from Raw, but I'm not sure changing "the blue brand" into "the green brand" (Raw is red, NXT is yellow, 205 is purple...other options are orange, pink, or some kind of in-between color like teal) would be a smart move. I also assume this is a rumor and only a rumor and the blue will be brighter than ever on its Fox debut.


CCharger - 9-17-2018 at 04:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* When Smackdown debuts on FOX, it expected to get a complete makeover. New colors, new graphics, new ramp, new video displays, new production style. WWE wants to re-boot the whole concept/look.

With the only color really associated with SmackDown being blue, you have to assume this means adopting an entirely new color scheme. I'm all for changing up the set design to differ it from Raw, but I'm not sure changing "the blue brand" into "the green brand" (Raw is red, NXT is yellow, 205 is purple...other options are orange, pink, or some kind of in-between color like teal) would be a smart move. I also assume this is a rumor and only a rumor and the blue will be brighter than ever on its Fox debut.

With the move to Fox, I assume the dominant color will be white...


ulsterphil - 9-17-2018 at 05:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* WWE is looking to bring back managers/valets in 2019 in a big way.




Thank goodness. Hopefully it will stem the flow of people being called up from NXT only to vanish into mediocrity because they have either no mic skills or no other distinguising qualities.


gobbledygooker - 9-17-2018 at 08:16 PM

Yeah, after having missed Raw for a few weeks, I was kinda surprised to see Rockstar Spud (or whatever is WWE-ized name currently is) managing The Authors of Pain last week. But I did kinda like it in a "Hell yeah, this feels kinda old-school" kinda way. That's really the perfect sort of role for him. And I was wondering if that might be the start of some kind of shift back towards managers being a thing again.


First 9 - 9-17-2018 at 08:27 PM

WWE doesn't seem to give a shit anymore about having a wide ratio of guys and gals just sitting bak filling out the D shows or just not doing anything so it makes sense they're now willing to bring back non-wrestling roles.


Paddlefoot - 9-17-2018 at 09:19 PM

They really need to consider filling out Main Event as a proper show on it's own to create more space for those who have come up from NXT but aren't ever going to be real players on the main shows. Main Event is a waste right now, two ten-minute matches and thirty-five minutes of summaries of RAW & SD. It's the perfect place to dump the lesser stories, like Titus Worldwide, and still provide the time for the talent to get in some ring work. WWE's got this down to a science now when it comes to the basics of production so there's really no logical argument that they can't do this with Main Event, 205, and even another new hour-long show per week at minimal cost, especially when they don't need network TV contracts for any of them because they can simply use their own internet service.

NXT desperately needs a bump up to a two-hour show as well. One hour per week just isn't enough to display all that talent they've got growing down there.


CCharger - 9-17-2018 at 09:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
They really need to consider filling out Main Event as a proper show on it's own to create more space for those who have come up from NXT but aren't ever going to be real players on the main shows. Main Event is a waste right now, two ten-minute matches and thirty-five minutes of summaries of RAW & SD. It's the perfect place to dump the lesser stories, like Titus Worldwide, and still provide the time for the talent to get in some ring work. WWE's got this down to a science now when it comes to the basics of production so there's really no logical argument that they can't do this with Main Event, 205, and even another new hour-long show per week at minimal cost, especially when they don't need network TV contracts for any of them because they can simply use their own internet service.

NXT desperately needs a bump up to a two-hour show as well. One hour per week just isn't enough to display all that talent they've got growing down there.

Or they could, you know, not call up talent to the main roster until they are actually ready.


Paddlefoot - 9-17-2018 at 09:35 PM

They have to move them up eventually though, even if NXT shows that they'll never be major-event level, to make space for new developmental prospects. Either that or just release more of them after their NXT time is over. These days it's just reality that no one is going from NXT to becoming part of (for example) Breezango to competing seriously on SD and RAW. If they're happy being jobbers to the stars and getting paid great for it then good for them. The fans better start getting more realistic though because as much fun as one of the scrubs might be in NXT they're not going to get a serious sniff at a title on the big circuit. The system might need it's Crash Davis' to fill in the holes here and there but don't expect much of anything significant to happen with them.

[Edited on 9/17/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 9-17-2018 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
They have to move them up eventually though, even if NXT shows that they'll never be major-event level, to make space for new developmental prospects. Either that or just release more of them after their NXT time is over. These days it's just reality that no one is going from NXT to becoming part of (for example) Breezango to competing seriously on SD and RAW. If they're happy being jobbers to the stars and getting paid great for it then good for them. The fans better start getting more realistic though because as much fun as one of the scrubs might be in NXT they're not going to get a serious sniff at a title on the big circuit. The system might need it's Crash Davis' to fill in the holes here and there but don't expect much of anything significant to happen with them.

[Edited on 9/17/2018 by Paddlefoot]

I guess, but my feeling is that you work at NXT trying to learn the WWE style and filling out your character, then if you are good and Vince wants to make money off you, you get brought up to the main roster. If you aren't ready to move to the main roster after years down at NXT, WWE should just cut you and allow you to go to Japan or the indies. NXT should be a proving ground.


bigfatgoalie - 9-17-2018 at 10:55 PM

It’s important to remember that RAW & SmackDown are not the only product WWE produces. They still do a shit load of live events where a guy like Tye Dillinger will have a lot of value.

So yeah, if a wrestler has reached their limit in NXT, but has no potential to break out, a call up to fill out house show rosters is still worth doing.


First 9 - 9-17-2018 at 11:39 PM

Also, Main Event and Superstars still have overseas contracts, so it might not be that lucrative but guys like Breeze and Dillinger probably pay for themselves by filling out those shows.


Count Zero - 9-18-2018 at 02:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Also, Main Event and Superstars still have overseas contracts, so it might not be that lucrative but guys like Breeze and Dillinger probably pay for themselves by filling out those shows.
And there are weirdos like me who enjoy that kind of show SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE it's full of the "guys/girls you don't see all the damn time on the Two Main Shows". So it's not just the overseas market that can be tapped into.


CVD39 - 9-18-2018 at 07:56 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
They really need to consider filling out Main Event as a proper show on it's own to create more space for those who have come up from NXT but aren't ever going to be real players on the main shows. Main Event is a waste right now, two ten-minute matches and thirty-five minutes of summaries of RAW & SD. It's the perfect place to dump the lesser stories, like Titus Worldwide, and still provide the time for the talent to get in some ring work. WWE's got this down to a science now when it comes to the basics of production so there's really no logical argument that they can't do this with Main Event, 205, and even another new hour-long show per week at minimal cost, especially when they don't need network TV contracts for any of them because they can simply use their own internet service.

NXT desperately needs a bump up to a two-hour show as well. One hour per week just isn't enough to display all that talent they've got growing down there.


I was thinking not too long ago that they should have another show, whether it be a third brand of sorts or maybe a “rivals” type show where they could do some type of guys calling other guys out and it be cross branded. Like maybe Mahal wants to go back to Smackdown so he challenges Jeff Hardy for his spot or something. But I’m sure there’s something in their USA/Fox contracts where they can’t just add more shows and water down the product.

Or yeah, use their C shows to actually have entertaining storylines and hype them up a bit on Raw/SD. “Are you going to catch Superstars this week, Corey? Kevin Owens will be taking on Bobby Lashley one on one for the chance to meet Seth Rollins next week for the Intercontinental title on Raw. And the Bar will face off against Roode and Gable in another Raw versus Smackdown match. Raw is currently at 4 wins and Smackdown has 3 wins so this week the series might get evened up. Huge implications for Survivor Series in two months.” Maybe whichever brand has more wins they get something sweet at Survivor Series, I dunno.


But there’s just too many guys:/girls and not enough time. Either cut some people (by releasing or just ending their tv time) or add a show or so. I wonder how much it would cost to add another weekly taping day? Or maybe yank a few guys from the road every week and have them tape a month’s worth of matches in Orlando....”In October, Rivals at the Full Sail arena is taken over by the teams of The New Day, Ty Dillenger, Cien Almas and Jeff Hardy from Smackdown against the Raw team of The B Team, Bobby Lashley, Titus Worldwide and Bray Wyatt. Only on the WWE Network.” Tape four shows in two nights and they’d still be available for RAW/SD. Or maybe you use this for the two syndicated shows.

[Edited on 9-18-2018 by CVD39]


punkerhardcore - 9-18-2018 at 12:24 PM

What you're describing there sounds exactly like the old Shotgun Saturday Night, or Heat/Velocity days from 15-20 years ago. Or even more recently, the ECW reboot. It would just end up being the same shit as any of those shows... something that starts off unique and different, but then gets watered down and morphed into business as usual.


Paddlefoot - 9-18-2018 at 02:34 PM

The watering-down is probably a built-in feature because the C- or D-shows have always primarily been used as a vehicle for a weekly summary of what happened at RAW or SD. That's why if they wanted to use Main Event or whatever else as platforms for the lesser-used talent to get in some matches they'd have to be Network shows. If TV channels are involved they'll automatically want the shows to remain as plugs for the big shows and they probably couldn't give a damn at all about WWE's basic need to give these people something to do besides hanging around backstage on call week after endless week.

A weekly show with nothing but the best of whatever happens at house shows would be fantastic. Every time the talent is asked what they prefer in terms of less stress and just having fun almost all of them say the house shows are the best. As soon as the TV production with the second-by-second scheduling of a show is not there the general atmosphere becomes immediately more relaxed.


CCharger - 9-18-2018 at 02:47 PM

* Meltzer is reporting that "despite things not working out that way", the plan was for Charlotte to slowly turn babyface during the match only to have Becky screw her out of the title in the end. As reported elsewhere, pro-Becky and anti-Charlotte signs were confiscated at HIAC, as WWE wants to get Becky over as a heel and Charlotte as a sympathetic babyface.

* Brock Lesnar is reportedly being paid $500,000 per appearance and $7 million per match.


First 9 - 9-18-2018 at 02:57 PM

Is that the biggest downside guarantee payment WWE has ever offered(even if we count inflation)? The infamous inflated WCW contracts were like 5mil for the whole year. The Rock and Austin in their prime made a fuck ton of money with their record breaking merch sales,% of house show gates, % of ppv buyrates but I don't think their downsides came close to Brock's.

Not to throw shade at Brock or anything, good for him if he can squeeze that much out of the billions WWE makes but is anybody even close?


Paddlefoot - 9-18-2018 at 04:10 PM

* Alexa has been pulled from the MMC due to injury (kayfabe or legit is unknown at this point) and Ember Moon will replace her as Braun Strowman's partner

* noted ambulance chaser Konstantin Kyros had his class-action lawsuit over concussions thrown out by the court this week; today he announced that the inevitable appeal of the court's decision will be launched....whenever

* also, your "Golly!" moment of the day

Canadian Destroyer from the top of a balcony through tables below.

Source video shot at a deathmatch tournament over the weekend: https://t.co/UdsEWdAMTI pic.twitter.com/ThtYmtXw43

— Ryan Satin (@ryansatin) September 18, 2018



[Edited on 9/18/2018 by Paddlefoot]


bigfatgoalie - 9-18-2018 at 05:23 PM

That $7 million figure seems...inflated.

The usual places are saying Lesnar will make 7 figures for the Crown Jewel PPV/propaganda show, ie $1,000,000. It might be more, but I’m thinking a $7 million pay day for a match would be bigger news.

Here’s the Meltzer link most places are citing: https://www.mmafighting.com/2018/9/17/17868528/brock-lesnar-returns-to-wwe-but-still-eyes-ufc-heavyweight-title


Flash - 9-18-2018 at 05:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Brock Lesnar is reportedly being paid $500,000 per appearance and $7 million per match.


That doesn't really pass the smell test...

I mean look at this way; Let's say at only 1 match per year with no other appearances they would need to sell 58333 network subscriptions just to pay him meaning that they would basically be paying him about 1/43rd of their total network subscriptions for a single match* (math below). Throw in a 2nd match or a couple of TV appearances to promote said matches and the need to sell more subscriptions would go up.

Now yes the WWE has other revenue streams that bring in a lot of cash, but I haven't seen Brock's name on any of the WWE's best merch movers at any point so his worth is probably mostly derived from a couple of main stream headlines and Network subscriptions (when he's showing up the houses for PPV's and so forth are generally already sold out no thanks to him).

Paying Brock that much just feels dangerous and not worth the investment... In sports and entertainment the top dollar guy teds to pull up others beneath him... The whole high tide raises all ships bit... My guess; The numbers MAY be quasi real but there's probably a LOT that's not being accurately reported... Like maybe the $7 million represents a downside, but in lieu of that he forfeits all merch sales unless they hit certain targets or something... Who knows; those numbers just seem crazy compared to the general idea we have about other talents earnings and the bit we know about the money the WWE pulls in.

Also why is it when you fart it smells a bit, but if you accidentally fart into a fan it magnifies the smell of the fart 100 fold.


*I haven't seen any recent network subscription rates recently, the last I saw put it at just shy of 2 million, so for arguments sake I put annual subscribers at 2.5 million. To get the 58333 figure for his salary I basically assumed a full years subscript at aprox $120 and then divided 7 million by 120... I think that makes sense... math is not my strong suit.


CCharger - 9-18-2018 at 05:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Brock Lesnar is reportedly being paid $500,000 per appearance and $7 million per match.


That doesn't really pass the smell test...

I mean look at this way; Let's say at only 1 match per year with no other appearances they would need to sell 58333 network subscriptions just to pay him meaning that they would basically be paying him about 1/43rd of their total network subscriptions for a single match* (math below). Throw in a 2nd match or a couple of TV appearances to promote said matches and the need to sell more subscriptions would go up.

Now yes the WWE has other revenue streams that bring in a lot of cash, but I haven't seen Brock's name on any of the WWE's best merch movers at any point so his worth is probably mostly derived from a couple of main stream headlines and Network subscriptions (when he's showing up the houses for PPV's and so forth are generally already sold out no thanks to him).

Paying Brock that much just feels dangerous and not worth the investment... In sports and entertainment the top dollar guy teds to pull up others beneath him... The whole high tide raises all ships bit... My guess; The numbers MAY be quasi real but there's probably a LOT that's not being accurately reported... Like maybe the $7 million represents a downside, but in lieu of that he forfeits all merch sales unless they hit certain targets or something... Who knows; those numbers just seem crazy compared to the general idea we have about other talents earnings and the bit we know about the money the WWE pulls in.

Also why is it when you fart it smells a bit, but if you accidentally fart into a fan it magnifies the smell of the fart 100 fold.


*I haven't seen any recent network subscription rates recently, the last I saw put it at just shy of 2 million, so for arguments sake I put annual subscribers at 2.5 million. To get the 58333 figure for his salary I basically assumed a full years subscript at aprox $120 and then divided 7 million by 120... I think that makes sense... math is not my strong suit.

I'm not disputing your argument, but keep in mind that WWE made 800 million dollars in revenue last year. So, let's say Brock makes three appearances and wrestles at Wrestlemania. That's 10 million or just a shade over 1% of their total revenue for arguably their most well known start and top draw? That's a bargain IMO


First 9 - 9-18-2018 at 05:50 PM

Also, Lesnar might be a prestige name that sponsors and tv network executives push for. Back in 08 WWE and the USA Network bumped heads as USA demanded Batista be moved to RAW, not demanded another big star, they named him in particular and it fucked with SD's house show attendance as Batista was the blue brand's Cena. When he got injured WWE quietly moved him back.

And that's a full WWE creation, somebody with outside appeal like Lesnar is likely the first guy name dropped when WWE talks with sponsors, shareholders, and the rest of their ilk.

That reported is goddamn insane compared to past top guys but this is the era of WWE's most porfitable period.


GodEatGod - 9-18-2018 at 09:39 PM

It could also be a similar deal to the way, say, Hogan was paid in old WCW (i.e. his contract was paid by Ted Turner/Time Warner as its own thing outside of the budget of regular WCW). The Saudis might've kicked in a specific amount, for example, to guarantee Brock on all the Saudi shows and 7 million dollars is like pocket lint to those guys.


CVD39 - 9-18-2018 at 09:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
What you're describing there sounds exactly like the old Shotgun Saturday Night, or Heat/Velocity days from 15-20 years ago. Or even more recently, the ECW reboot. It would just end up being the same shit as any of those shows... something that starts off unique and different, but then gets watered down and morphed into business as usual.


I loved Shotgun Saturday Night. Well, the first episode or two at least. But they just have to stick with it if they’re going to go that route. NXT has thrived because they’ve put new guys in charge of it and HHH nailed it (I think, I’m not sure how long he’s been a part of it but he gets a bunch of credit). 205 has its own thing going on and while it might not be great, it’s bettet than what SSN, Heat and Superstars turned into. Just gotta stay the course.


Flash - 9-18-2018 at 11:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
It could also be a similar deal to the way, say, Hogan was paid in old WCW (i.e. his contract was paid by Ted Turner/Time Warner as its own thing outside of the budget of regular WCW). The Saudis might've kicked in a specific amount, for example, to guarantee Brock on all the Saudi shows and 7 million dollars is like pocket lint to those guys.


Something like this is along the lines of what I was thinking about how we don't have the full story (and nor should we be entitled to it) about Brock's deal... The WWE does pull in big cash via may revenue streams, but the figures entirely on their own seem inflated.

Like look at it this way... Per wherever those various net worth websites get their figures from they suggest that Cena is worth about $55 million... That's not all WWE money and it also doesn't mean that's what he's got in the bank at the moment either (or his entirely career earnings for that matter); but I'm betting even a part time John Cena brings in more cash to the company coffers than a Brock does... Let's go back a few decades when guys on an INDIVIDUAL basis were making more (I acknowledge the company as a whole is worth more)... Brock's 2003 contract is floating around out there and his downside was $1 million... So he's probably pulled in more than that given how WWE downsides work... Conversely the hottest name in the history of the business Steve Austin's best year thanks to the 3:16 shirts was said to be about $19 million... So for Brock, who does not bring in the cash that an Austin or Cena does to the WWE coffers just seems odd... It may be true, but I'm betting it's being misreported (surprise Meltzer gets something wrong) when there's probably a lot more to the deal than just a straight up per appearance flat rate.


First 9 - 9-18-2018 at 11:52 PM

It probably is inflated but it makes a lot more sense if you remember Lesnar is part wrestler, part celebrity with his UFC success. Sure he won't get the millions of dollars Mike Tyson got to count a 123 and punch Shawn Michaels, but he's closer to that category than a regular wrestler.

He might not affect the general revenue streams(Networks subs, house show attedance, merch) the way Cena does but WWE might be paying the big bucks due to some(maybe imaginary) prestige he brings them.

Also, I don't think the number has been quoted directly from Ol' Dave but instead other sites are attributing it to him so yeah it's probably fake.


Flash - 9-19-2018 at 07:05 AM

I'd really be curious to see what kind of impact Lesnar has on the WWE's business... Like I don't think I've ever seen (modern) Brock show up on any of those top merch-movers lists that float around. He generally shows up at stuff like Summer Slam and Wrestlemania which are sell outs with or without him, and generally speaking the WWE's network growth tends to be more par for the course with year to year growth...

Speaking from a completely my opinion alone with no facts to back it up but UFC doesn't seem to be the colossus that it once was... I'm sure they still do quite well, but the endless stream of Tap Out shirts and what have you seems to have largely dried up around my parts (the irony now being that they sponsor the WWE)... I also can't see Brock wins again and again and again being a massive mainstream headline generating thing either. Yeah his matches cross over a bit from wrestling sites to MMA sites but outside of the odd TMZ report (and their already quasi-friendly to wrestling anyway) you don't see it showing up on E... If anything I mostly recall Brock doing mass media only when he's doing an MMA fight and not so much when he's doing Wrestlemania.

Clearly Vince thinks Brock has a positive effect on his business... hence the big cash (pre this current rumour) and the last two ish years of Brock booking we've suffered through... But I really would love to see some hard numbers attached to it to see just how he benefits them.


CCharger - 9-19-2018 at 01:13 PM

To give a demonstration of how much money the Saudis have to throw around, the Crown Jewel show set for November 2, will include Shawn Michaels return to the ring as he teams with HHH against the Brothers of Destruction. Michaels has resisted efforts to get him to return for Wrestlemania against the likes of Bryan and Styles, but the Saudi royals signed a fat enough check to make it worth Michaels' while.


First 9 - 9-19-2018 at 01:30 PM

12 years ago I would have marked out for DX vs The Brothers of Destruction. Now, I'm just curious to see how good the(almost universally recognized) greatest of all time can be after 8 years of ring rust.


ulsterphil - 9-19-2018 at 01:36 PM

Given that for the previous event the Saudi King wanted Yokozuna and Ultimate Warrior on the card, we can be thankful that its actually someone breathing this time.


Flash - 9-20-2018 at 02:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
12 years ago I would have marked out for DX vs The Brothers of Destruction. Now, I'm just curious to see how good the(almost universally recognized) greatest of all time can be after 8 years of ring rust.


He's a trainer at the performance center; he's probably not bumping like crazy down there and hasn't had the benefit of performing in front of a crowd since his retirement, but I also don't think you'll see him get blown up 5 minutes in either...

It's a throw away nostalgia tag match where none of them are active performers anymore; I'm sure they'll all admirably hit their classic spots and get huge pops from the crowd... I'm also thinking that given the level of compete and professionalism of the guys in the ring it wouldn't entirely surprise me if they bust out some cool never seen or probably shouldn't be done by a bunch of 50 year olds spots too.

Yeah it's a big pay day for these guys, but I'm betting they all have more than enough pride to not just want to go out there and pose a bunch before blowing out a knee and limping to the back.

Now here's the question I'm looking forward to seeing answered; You've got stuff like HBK and Styles talking about why him coming out of retirement means it creates a bunch of well what about this guy or what about that guy type questions... Once this Saudi match happens and the HBK retirement seal is broken (even if for a boatload of cash); would he be open to the odd mini-feud?

Like off the top of my head I'd love to see HBK go against Bryan, Rollins, and Styles... You could do that over the course of a year while giving him a couple months off in between.


First 9 - 9-20-2018 at 03:31 AM

Oh no, I'm not expectinghim to be a sad old man out there. I'm wondering just how good he'll be.

As somebody who enjoys the 00's era Ric Flair matches because he'd do so much with so little, I'm expecting something similar from HBK.


CCharger - 9-20-2018 at 02:36 PM

* Despite rumors of their impending arrival in NXT, Fenix and Pentagon Jr. are signed with MLW until 2019 and with Lucha Underground until 2020. So, unless some agreement or buyout is worked out, they won't be in WWE until then.

* Jason Jordan's wrestling career may be over. His neck injury is worse than originally feared.

* Rey Mysterio has reportedly signed a two year deal with the WWE and expected to retire with the company.

* CM Punk has wrapped up filming the lead role in the horror movie "Girl On The Third Floor" and also played a role in a movie called "Rabid".

[Edited on 9-20-2018 by CCharger]


anglefan85 - 9-20-2018 at 03:42 PM

Hopefully Rey's able to work a part-time schedule. I'm actually interested in seeing him work again since he's regained his speed and is physically looking almost like WCW-era Rey.

I've got no desire to see him work a full-time schedule again, though, due to the risk of him getting back into the shape that he was in during his last few years in the company.


Paddlefoot - 9-20-2018 at 03:48 PM

* turns out Alexa's arm/shoulder injury is legit and she'll be out of in-ring action for a while; apparently it didn't happen specifically because of Rousey's armbar at HIAC but occurred during the set-up for the move

* summary here from a Bob Holly visit to Stone Cold's podcast recently, with some interesting stroll down violent-memory lane of Steve Blackman's time with WWF, the Brawl For All, and how Bart Gunn fucked up all their plans for Steve Williams when he knocked Dr. Death the fuck out during the tourney:

https://411mania.com/wrestling/bob-holly-reflects-brawl/

Stay off of the meth and finish high school, kids, because if you take the wrong path in life you don't want a bail bondsman like Steve Blackman coming after you! Jesus Christ, that would be legit fucking scary.

[Edited on 9/20/2018 by Paddlefoot]


salmonjunkie - 9-20-2018 at 04:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* turns out Alexa's arm/shoulder injury is legit and she'll be out of in-ring action for a while; apparently it didn't happen specifically because of Rousey's armbar at HIAC but occurred during the set-up for the move



I suppose this means Alexa vs Trish won't happen? Bummer for Alexa.


Flash - 9-20-2018 at 05:53 PM

I remember posting something about Blackman being a bondsman (I think it was in the post-WWE careers thread?)... If you look up his website there's a pretty funny video ad on there.

As for Rey.... man I just really don't want him back; The odd pop the crowd spot in a Royal Rumble or something small like that is fine, but WWE Rey probably tops my list of most over rated and boring wrestlers... All of his matches were pretty much paint by numbers, and I hate the whole giant killer thing... it's fine when it's a dramatic moment that's been built to, but him winning constantly when in reality he'd just bounce off some of the guys he'd be in there with just broke that suspension of disbelief wrestling requires.


Paddlefoot - 9-20-2018 at 10:07 PM

* Sheamus disses Total Divas - face turn or future endeavouring now imminent?

IM- pic.twitter.com/UMkepnQMxK

— rich (@bornthisrich) September 20, 2018



"Bulgorian"


CCharger - 9-21-2018 at 02:25 PM

* A meeting of high level WWE and Impact Wrestling officials was held recently at WWE's Stamford headquarters. Vince was not present, but HHH and his guys were. The meeting was described as a "getting to know you" kind of meeting. WWE requested the meeting. This is not the first time WWE and Impact have communicated as WWE reached out to Impact to use AJ Styles footage.

* The Observer has confirmed earlier rumors that the huge money from Saudi Arabia was basically an offer that Shawn Michaels couldn't refuse. It is also Saudi money that is being paid to Brock for him to return for one more match.


ulsterphil - 9-21-2018 at 05:06 PM

They need to bring out the Saudi sports rep at the event. Using the million dollar man theme.

This needs to happen.


Paddlefoot - 9-21-2018 at 05:28 PM

Gonna be interesting to see how much crap we get out of WWE mouthpieces about "it's a country that's changing" if the Saudis continue blowing up school buses full of little kids in Yemen at the same time the performers are doing their goodwill tour of that fucking abattoir of a country.

Just like I said for the GRR they held over their, boycott this fucking show. Seriously this is no different at all than if WWE was around in the early 1940's and went on a tour of Germany at the same time that particular government was killing as many innocent people that they possibly could. "I don't get it, what's the big deal anyway?", just doesn't cut it anymore.

* also, Legit Boss has a legit injury - Sasha Banks has been pulled from the MMC and Mickie James will replace her as the partner for Bobby Lashley; aside from last week's quickie tag-team match against the Riott Squad, where Bayley did most of the wrestling, Sasha hasn't worked in the ring since Sept 3

[Edited on 9/21/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Paddlefoot - 9-24-2018 at 03:35 AM

Online Onslaught Sept 22 - 23, 2018


CVD39 - 9-24-2018 at 06:55 AM

Something about super-Christian Shawn Michaels taking Saudi money for another match kinda rubs me the wrong way. If it were the French? The Japanese? Canada? Sure, but Saudi Arabia? If money is the only reason then taking it from one of the biggest human rights offenders in the world just seems kinda unchristian like.


On second thought, it seems very Christian like these days.


First 9 - 9-24-2018 at 03:33 PM

It sucks that Sasha got injured but hopefully this is a chance to reset her. She is arguably the most well-rounded wrestler in the women's division in terms of in ring skills, charisma and personality.


CCharger - 9-25-2018 at 03:39 PM

* It's rumored that Hulk Hogan will return to the WWE at Crown Jewel in Saudi Arabia.

* No surprise but Liv Morgan is being evaluated for a severe concussion. She reportedly suffered memory loss, and couldn't remember anything after the start of the show. According to Meltzer the "entire middle" of the match was changed on the fly to account for Morgan's injury. The injury was clearly mishandled and the backstage gorilla position was described as being in "pure panic" after the injury.


nOOb - 9-25-2018 at 03:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* It's rumored that Hulk Hogan will return to the WWE at Crown Jewel in Saudi Arabia.



I mean, if you're going to return a guy like Hogan, you may as well return him in a place that still thinks he's relevant and also could care less about any sort of hate speech on his end.


Matte - 9-25-2018 at 04:07 PM

Kofi out here breaking records.



TownOfDalem - 9-25-2018 at 04:13 PM

Kofi is going into the hall of fame eventually. I hope he gets a main event shot before he hangs it up.


CCharger - 9-25-2018 at 04:14 PM

Kofi looks so high.


DKBroiler - 9-25-2018 at 06:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
Kofi is going into the hall of fame eventually. I hope he gets a main event shot before he hangs it up.


This. If there was ever a person who DESERVED an out of nowhere Rumble victory it’s absolutely Kofi. Does anyone really think that 30 minutes of Kofi versus AJ wouldn’t be awesome as hell?


Matte - 9-25-2018 at 06:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I hope he gets a main event shot before he hangs it up.

Looks like Big E agrees.

.@TrueKofi has the most days as a tag team champion in the history of WWE. Never failed a drug test. Never had a brush with the law. Always a professional to the highest degree. Give this man his flowers while he can still smell them.

— Florida Man (@WWEBigE) September 25, 2018


CCharger - 9-25-2018 at 08:58 PM

* Apparently we have an answer as to why Brie is on both brands. Vince sees her as two separate characters: Nikki's sister and tag partner and the other as Bryan's wife.


DKBroiler - 9-25-2018 at 09:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Apparently we have an answer as to why Brie is on both brands. Vince sees her as two separate characters: Nikki's sister and tag partner and the other as Bryan's wife.


The Faces of Bella!

It’s almost like the many Faces of Foley, except Foley knows how to act with more emotion than a standard wooden post.

But totally the same otherwise...


Paddlefoot - 9-25-2018 at 11:29 PM

I suppose if there's any positives from Liv getting her bell rung by Brie it's that it totally undercuts their nonsense of the last few weeks about the "trailblazing" Divas era. Seriously, only Beth Phoenix, Melina, and Mickie knew what the hell they were doing back then. Others like McCool, Maria, and Eve Torres got passably better and developed some personality. The rest though? Bah. And that's not being mean to them either. More often than not, for almost a decade, any Divas portion of the shows was the bottom of the barrel. And the only reason it happened was thanks to Johnny Ace, after rubbing it out to Hawaiian Tropic ads and online wet t-shirt contests, somehow convincing Vince that this was the way to go because "everyone hates women's wrestling anyway". It was like the dark ages for women in this business and most everyone knows it.


First 9 - 9-26-2018 at 01:33 AM

Completely agree with you Pad but I just gotta mention that they also had Gail Kim and Katie Lea as legitimately good wrestlers. Even with Johnny Ace's love for bimbos they still had enough talented women to build a competitive division, they just chose not to.


CheMateo - 9-26-2018 at 02:20 AM

Ugh, the return of Cunt Hogan. I knew it was inevitable but the disgust is no less severe.
It is a perfect (Vince screamy voice) match made in HELL!! One hateful human being and one hateful regime.

I am out of the loop these days. There was Nike/Vince meme which stated something like, "Believe in something even if means pushing Reigns at the expense of your audience." It just killed all of my fringe interest. I would at least catch the odd PPV and keep tabs but I have not bothered as of late.

So what is going on with this whole diva trailblazer controversy and what happened between Brie and Liv Morgan? I would appreciate an update. I recall hearing chatter of Brie botching some dive or something right after her return. I thought everything was being pushed as all is swell and history in the making.


Paddlefoot - 9-26-2018 at 04:28 AM

First they made Carmella say there was nothing wrong with being a diva. Then the Bellas returned, in time for their odious show on E, and they made the announcers pile on with the additional BS of the "legendary" Bellas and the Diva era "paving the way" for the women's evolution. Normally it wouldn't be too offensive, just WWE doing their bit for the Total Bellas/Divas crossover, but then several weeks ago Brie started her now-numerous attempts to kill either herself or someone else in ring which made it all seem even more hollow than the usual WWE propaganda normally is. If they're going to use the badly rusted Bellas as the marker for what made the Divas Era "legendary" then no wonder most of the time the matches back then either fast-forwarded or used just for a bathroom break.

Like F9 said, they could have put together a semi-decent women's division together back then but that's not where their minds were. Aside from the Bellas pulling rank of some sort and wanting to come back to a regular work schedule I have no idea, aside from the promotion of the E shows, as to why they're all of a sudden so damn determined to bring back the memories of something that most fans apparently had zero interest in back when it was new. Doesn't make much sense unless someone, a certain catamite in production perhaps, jogged Vince's memory of how great bikini contests and thirty-second squashes were from circa 2005 thru '14.

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Completely agree with you Pad but I just gotta mention that they also had Gail Kim and Katie Lea as legitimately good wrestlers. Even with Johnny Ace's love for bimbos they still had enough talented women to build a competitive division, they just chose not to.


The unjustly forgotten Victoria too.


[Edited on 9/26/2018 by Paddlefoot]


nOOb - 9-26-2018 at 09:32 AM

The big thing I remember about Katie Lea was that someone very clearly just watched Cruel Intentions for the first time (name rhymes with Rinse That Spam), they gave her Paul Burchill as her brother she wanted to bang, and the extent of character development they did was have Paul lose to Kofi Kingston for what seemed like a month straight while she screamed the entire match to open Raw (which was usually how far I made it).

Three talents wasted in one go...say what you will, but WWE was at least efficient in misusing talent back in the day.


First 9 - 9-26-2018 at 01:21 PM

Sad thing is she's said in interviews she was excited about the incest angle because it'd mean she would have a character and have a story to get over with. Once WWE scrapped it she was just another bitchy heel Diva so I can see her point.

I don't know if it's her vampire looks but wrestling promoters love giving her Katie overtly sexual angles. In TNA she debuted as a supernatural stalker who was obsessed with Angelina Love. She haunted and then drugged Angelina, turning Love into her slave(and lover?) and as goofy as that sounds Katie Lea fucking killed it.


CCharger - 9-26-2018 at 02:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CheMateo


So what is going on with this whole diva trailblazer controversy and what happened between Brie and Liv Morgan? I would appreciate an update. I recall hearing chatter of Brie botching some dive or something right after her return. I thought everything was being pushed as all is swell and history in the making.

Basically, Brie and Nikki have been tagging. Since returning Brie has...not looked good. She botched a couple of suicide dives in embarrassing and dangerous fashion last week. This week, she was doing the Yes! kicks on Liv Morgan and kicked her directly in the face twice knocking Morgan out. She received a ton of shit on social media and everyone has been shitting on her.

To make it (better? worse?) Brie is also appearing on both brands, allegedly because Vince sees her as two different characters. On RAW she is Nikki's tag team partner and on Smackdown she is Daniel Bryan's wife. So, the over-saturation of a "diva" combined with her below average and hurt-y ring work further combined by the now accepted emphasis of skill and athleticism in the women's division is making her stick out like a really sore, swollen, pus-filled thumb.


nOOb - 9-26-2018 at 04:35 PM

Here's a real Sophie's Choice for you: keep the Bellas around and keep two very popular members of the roster around at the expense of averaging a severe concussion or neck injury for the rest of the ladies a month or keep the women's division safe by cutting ties with both at the expense of pissing off Daniel Bryan and forcing him to leave for his wife's sake (John Cena'd stick around, though, because, let's face it, the dude's hella good-looking and charismatic and would rebound pretty quick with a non-reality show woman)?


Matte - 9-26-2018 at 05:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
keep the Bellas around and keep two very popular members of the roster around at the expense of averaging a severe concussion or neck injury for the rest of the ladies a month

One severe injury per month...based on Brie knocking out Liv one time. And is Nikki being lumped into the "unsafe" category based on something she's done in the ring recently or just because she's Brie's sister?
quote:
or keep the women's division safe by cutting ties with both

Brie isn't the only "unsafe" worker they have, she's just at the forefront because she's the most recent example. Every time Nia Jax gets into the ring, I'm worried for her opponent. And if we're going to include Brie's suicide dive as one of her unsafe practices, we need to lump Sasha Banks in there with her.
quote:
at the expense of pissing off Daniel Bryan and forcing him to leave for his wife's sake (John Cena'd stick around, though, because, let's face it, the dude's hella good-looking and charismatic and would rebound pretty quick with a non-reality show woman)?

Aren't Cena and Nikki not a thing anymore?

I don't know, a lot of this talk just comes off a bit too snarky for me to relate with. I realize that Brie mistimed her kicks and someone was injured because of it, but I can't bring myself to rally with others for her to be fired. I don't remember people demanding Seth Rollins be fired after mangling Cena's face with a knee strike.


CCharger - 9-26-2018 at 05:09 PM

I mean Sami Callahan basically made his career after nearly killing Eddie Edwards with a baseball bat botch.

I think the suggestion that the WWE would fire Brie and/or Nikki is laughable. Like it or not, the WWE views them as "legends" and "pioneers" and probably would rank them higher than Lita or Trish. They are as protected as any talent on the roster.

ETA: Meltzer is reporting that Sasha Banks is not dealing with an injury, but rather a "medical issue" that the WWE is being very secretive about.

[Edited on 9-26-2018 by CCharger]


Paddlefoot - 9-26-2018 at 05:10 PM

Can't let Brie continue this trend though even if they end up pissing off DB. And with Rollins they made him slow down a bit and change his move-set when too many injuries to others began to dog him. I say offer Brie the opportunity to go to the Performance Centre for a couple of months for a tune-up, not to mention a physical evaluation to see if she's simply had too much time off in the last couple of years and returned to the ring way too early. If that makes her and DB angry then tough for them. They gotta do their part and work towards a solution to the problem if WWE takes the first proactive step towards fixing the issue. Whatever WWE is expecting to eventually gain from re-signing DB, or what they're already making from the Bella TV shows, isn't worth the health of someone else by letting Brie into in-ring action that she might no longer be capable of performing.


First 9 - 9-26-2018 at 05:28 PM

Just have her ditch DB's moveset and problem solved. Nikki isn't out there causing concussions and nearly killing herself with ill-advised dives because she's sticking to her regular moves.Brie has a nice cross face, keep that and abandon the Yes kicks and the suicide dives.


Accipiter - 9-26-2018 at 05:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Just have her ditch DB's moveset and problem solved. Nikki isn't out there causing concussions and nearly killing herself with ill-advised dives because she's sticking to her regular moves.Brie has a nice cross face, keep that and abandon the Yes kicks and the suicide dives.


Clearly this is the issue, imagine the damage Michelle McCool would've inflicted doing Tombstone Piledrivers each week.


janerd75 - 9-26-2018 at 06:24 PM


nOOb - 9-26-2018 at 06:35 PM

Full disclosure: I still don't watch this nearly enough to make informed decisions about who or who should not be fired from the company. The extent of my WWE viewing in general is that gif. And I may or may not have been fishing for a gif like the one above. So in my uninformed opinion based on the fact that both Bella's are reality show stars with the personality of a sock, I'd say fire them both.

[Edited on 9-26-2018 by nOOb]


GodEatGod - 9-26-2018 at 07:21 PM

Brie missing a few moves after years of retirement and only getting back in the ring regularly for the last few weeks is hardly worth calling for her retirement. I don't remember her having a long history of injuring people beforehand (and, from watching the spot, I think she screwed up by trying to point and taunt at the corner while kicking, so she wasn't watching what she was doing like she should). I dunno, she had a bad suicide dive but I've seen LOTS of people have bad suicide dives (including Sasha Banks on many, many occasions).

Do I love the Bellas and want to see them every week? No, not really. Are they a terrible scourge that's ruining women's wrestling? No, not really.

I think it's worth noting that they're not likely to stick around long-term either. Both have lots of stuff on their plate, but are clearly being brought in to try to boost attention for Evolution and for particular storyline reasons. They'll be in the Rumble, but I doubt they'll have a match at WM.

And yeah, Nikki and Cena reportedly have stopped speaking entirely and are completely done.


CCharger - 9-26-2018 at 07:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Brie missing a few moves after years of retirement and only getting back in the ring regularly for the last few weeks is hardly worth calling for her retirement. I don't remember her having a long history of injuring people beforehand (and, from watching the spot, I think she screwed up by trying to point and taunt at the corner while kicking, so she wasn't watching what she was doing like she should). I dunno, she had a bad suicide dive but I've seen LOTS of people have bad suicide dives (including Sasha Banks on many, many occasions).

Do I love the Bellas and want to see them every week? No, not really. Are they a terrible scourge that's ruining women's wrestling? No, not really.

I think it's worth noting that they're not likely to stick around long-term either. Both have lots of stuff on their plate, but are clearly being brought in to try to boost attention for Evolution and for particular storyline reasons. They'll be in the Rumble, but I doubt they'll have a match at WM.

And yeah, Nikki and Cena reportedly have stopped speaking entirely and are completely done.

This means nothing, but there are dirt sheet rumors that the Bellas are in for a strong push including being the first women's tag team champions and Nikki challenging Rousey at Mania.

Again, these are dirt sheet rumors, but I wouldn't dismiss their importance to the WWE so quickly.


GodEatGod - 9-26-2018 at 07:37 PM

Charlotte winning the Rumble and challenging Rousey at Mania seems like a pretty easy slamdunk (and women main eventing WM seems like the exactly kind of HISTORIC thing that Stephanie loves). But, yeah, there's a chance they'll get cute with it, no doubt. Isn't there always?


DKBroiler - 9-26-2018 at 08:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Charlotte winning the Rumble and challenging Rousey at Mania seems like a pretty easy slamdunk (and women main eventing WM seems like the exactly kind of HISTORIC thing that Stephanie loves). But, yeah, there's a chance they'll get cute with it, no doubt. Isn't there always?


I don’t think we get Charlotte vs Rousey at Wrestlemania. Eventually, yes, but I think they know what they have with Rousey now and can slow roll many of the mega matches. She has a bunch of people on Raw to work with way before we get into brand hopping she-nanigans.


G. Jonah Jameson - 9-26-2018 at 08:52 PM

I tend to doubt the rumors of Ronda Rousey vs. Nikki Bella at Wrestlemania, if only because Nikki was previously rumored to be Rousey's opponent at Evolution and, with Alexa Bliss already tied up with Trish Stratus for Evolution, I don't know who else you can match Rousey with at Evolution unless you rush the Natalya turn.

Regarding Brie Bella: Are people more enthusiastic about shitting on her because they associate her with the bad old Divas' division instead of the much better modern-day women's division, and are thus inclined to hate her? Well, obviously. But the evidence that she sucks was piling up well before she went all Chun-Li on Liv Morgan: the botched dives, the sloppy mixed tag and screwed-up finish at Hell in a Cell. Plus there's the fact that she apparently blew another spot on RAW when she was supposed to get slingshotted into a shot from Ruby Riott and socked Riott in the jaw instead. Maybe she doesn't deserve the level of vitriol she's getting, but WWE definitely can't keep using her as they have been.


Paddlefoot - 9-26-2018 at 09:51 PM

Good opportunity for that "Brie is gonna kill you!" chant to make it's presence know.


denverpunk - 9-26-2018 at 10:34 PM

Yeah, I certainly don't think Brie deserves to be fired, and I see her value to the company (even if it's something that I personally don't value), but clearly she shouldn't be being pushed as this world beater when she is having trouble keeping her opponents safe, not to mention both Bellas' history of not being very good and having spots that should be going to other wrestlers. If they want to make them the first women Tag Champs, fine, but they should lose those belts the next TV taping in convincing fashion and put someone over (if Sasha is healthy by then, her and Bayley would be perfect in that role).

Matte mentioned nobody thought Seth Rollins should be fired when he hurt both Cena and Sting pretty close to each other. That's probably true, but posters on here were certainly calling him out for being way too stiff and working unsafely, and as much as I love him, the fact is that his move ended Sting's career.


DKBroiler - 9-26-2018 at 11:36 PM

I just watched it on DVR ... sweet Jesus ... she kicked the fuck out of her. The second one she was straight up unconscious already. You guys didn’t sell this enough. That was MMA brutal. It’s legitimately the second hardest hit this year behind Brock stiffing the fuck out of Braun.

Liv is tough as nails for going back in to take that suplex. New Jersey represent!

Anyway, I don’t hate Brie. I just think she’s a bad actress. This was clearly looking the wrong way and the moment she realized she was committing attempted manslaughter stopped and did the best she could to protect Liv. And really Liv needs to be leaning in less. It was ugly, it was a mistake. That’s it. Hopefully Liv is fine in 2 weeks and all is water under the bridge.

But shit ... she got kicked hard as fuck.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by DKBroiler]

Edit for Liz Liv transfusion

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by DKBroiler]


Flash - 9-26-2018 at 11:54 PM

You never want to completely shrug off someone being hurt, but this is wrestling and injuries are part of the business... I mean really, given the split second timing required on most moves it's amazing there aren't more injuries that happen. Brie wasn't taking liberties out there and she doesn't have a long history of being sloppy with a trail of injured opponents... In saying that she should have known that the first kick connected pretty strongly.

Brie apologized back stage reportedly (although the rest of the riot squad was said to be miffed still)... Probably something where Brie should buy dinner for Morgan for a bit or some other mia culpa move.

On the plus side, Morgan going back in there probably earned her props from management, so when she's back she should probably warrant a mini-push... or in Vince antiquated talk a match with Brie where she gets to chop the shit out of her for a minute and then get pinned by Brie.


Paddlefoot - 9-27-2018 at 12:04 AM

The difference between Rollins and Brie is that with Rollins all they had to do was get him to dial down the speed/intensity and he wouldn't end up hurting someone who simply wasn't prepared with how fast and strong he can be. With Brie it seems more like they're letting/making her do more intense moves just to cash in on her relationship to DB without thinking in advance that she might not be physically able to do them properly due to rust/age/never having done them before. Best to let Nikki do the heavy work in the ring and move Brie back to the face-in-peril trying to make the tag moments.

[Edited on 9/27/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 9-27-2018 at 01:47 PM

* To follow up on a previous post, Brie was very apologetic to Liv after the match, and there doesn't seem to be any heat between them. However, Logan and Riott were not happy with Brie, but kept their mouths shut after the match.

* There are rumors that Sasha Banks's "medical issue" is that she is pregnant.

* Lastly, here is a wild rumor. Reportedly, the Saudis want The Rock on the Crown Jewel show, and they want him to come in as champion. They have offered the WWE $20 million to make this happen. I'd take that one with a shaker of salt.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by CCharger]


DKBroiler - 9-27-2018 at 02:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* To follow up on a previous post, Brie was very apologetic to Liv after the match, and there doesn't seem to be any heat between them. However, Logan and Riott were not happy with Brie, but kept their mouths shut after the match.

* There are rumors that Sasha Banks's "medical issue" is that she is pregnant.

* Lastly, here is a wild rumor. Reportedly, the Saudis want The Rock on the Crown Jewel show, and they want him to come in as champion. They have offered the WWE $20 million to make this happen. I'd take that one with a shaker of salt.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by CCharger]


I can’t lie ... The Rock showing up and beating Roman on a random Raw next week would be funny as hell. While I disagree with Saudi politics vehemently, it is quite funny watching them throw thier blood money around.

I have a buddy who used to sell race horses. He told me that he knows of a Saudi Prince who once bought 400 million in race horses - which sounds ridiculous enough - but then he added that it each horse won every race it ever ran it would still lose him like 200 million on the “investment”.

Meanwhile I’m irritated that I’m down $60 on my crypto currency.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by DKBroiler]


Matte - 9-27-2018 at 03:17 PM

Nicole Matthews apparently ran into some legal issues at the US/Canada border and is now banned from entering the US for five years. She didn't have the proper work visa, apparently.


CCharger - 9-27-2018 at 03:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Nicole Matthews apparently ran into some legal issues at the US/Canada border and is now banned from entering the US for five years. She didn't have the proper work visa, apparently.

That seems...excessive?


TownOfDalem - 9-27-2018 at 03:51 PM

I can't say I'm shocked that the default would be the harshest punishment possible. Our current administration isn't exactly reasonable to foreigners visiting the country.


lz4005 - 9-27-2018 at 05:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I have a buddy who used to sell race horses. He told me that he knows of a Saudi Prince who once bought 400 million in race horses - which sounds ridiculous enough - but then he added that it each horse won every race it ever ran it would still lose him like 200 million on the “investment”.

Meanwhile I’m irritated that I’m down $60 on my crypto currency.



Not that saudi princes don't routinely overpay for lots of things, but you're forgetting that successful horses often earn more for stud service after they retire than they took home in winnings while being active competitors. Much like Buff Bagwell.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by lz4005]


DKBroiler - 9-27-2018 at 05:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by lz4005
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I have a buddy who used to sell race horses. He told me that he knows of a Saudi Prince who once bought 400 million in race horses - which sounds ridiculous enough - but then he added that it each horse won every race it ever ran it would still lose him like 200 million on the “investment”.

Meanwhile I’m irritated that I’m down $60 on my crypto currency.



Not that saudi princes don't routinely overpay for lots of things, but you're forgetting that successful horses often earn more for stud service after they retire than they took home in winnings while being active competitors. Much like Buff Bagwell.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by lz4005]


Good point ... but for what it’s worth my buddy studded race horses for a living. I’m pretty sure if one of those horses was a Triple Crown winner he still would have lost overall on the stud fees. The Prince simply liked what he liked. Those piddling $50,000 or 5 million dollar prizes meant nothing to him. He just wanted to win. Didn’t care. Just crazy money over there in the top 0.0001%.

[Edited on 9-27-2018 by DKBroiler]


CCharger - 9-28-2018 at 03:32 PM

* Cody and the Young Bucks are actively preparing for All In 2 for some time in 2019 and it is almost certain the show will take place in the New York City area. Ideally, they would like to book it for MSG.

* Speaking of the Bullet Club, despite their flirtation with the WWE, privately they have no interest in signing with Vince because they would lose their flexibility and creative control. They are using their discussions with WWE as leverage for a more lucrative deal with NJPW.


Paddlefoot - 9-28-2018 at 06:26 PM

* apparently Sheamus caved in and watched an episode of Total Divas


GodEatGod - 9-28-2018 at 09:30 PM

Batista seems to have solved his issues with WWE, as they have announced him as part of an Evolution reunion for Smackdown 1000. Which is weird since Evolution was a strictly RAW faction, but hey...


First 9 - 9-28-2018 at 09:41 PM

I hope this doesn't tarnish the creeper vibe Orton's been nailing for the last two months by coming out all suit up and being buddy, buddy with his old friends.

He'll be the one that stands out as Batista and Flair will get some that returning legend love, and HHH always easily flip flops back to being a face for stuff like this.


GodEatGod - 9-28-2018 at 10:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
I hope this doesn't tarnish the creeper vibe Orton's been nailing for the last two months by coming out all suit up and being buddy, buddy with his old friends.

He'll be the one that stands out as Batista and Flair will get some that returning legend love, and HHH always easily flip flops back to being a face for stuff like this.


I'm just envisioning the other three all classed up in suits and Randy just standing there awkwardly in his underwear and going THIS IS ME NOW


CCharger - 9-28-2018 at 11:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Which is weird since Evolution was a strictly RAW faction, but hey...

Any opportunity to get HHH over will not be overlooked, whether it makes any sense or not.


Count Zero - 9-29-2018 at 02:12 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
I hope this doesn't tarnish the creeper vibe Orton's been nailing for the last two months by coming out all suit up and being buddy, buddy with his old friends.

He'll be the one that stands out as Batista and Flair will get some that returning legend love, and HHH always easily flip flops back to being a face for stuff like this.


I'm just envisioning the other three all classed up in suits and Randy just standing there awkwardly in his underwear and going THIS IS ME NOW


...Okay, that level of Crazy Randy Orton might be a thing I could get behind (if I wasn't so squicked out by the things he's done to Brother Nero ).


Paddlefoot - 9-29-2018 at 08:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Batista seems to have solved his issues with WWE, as they have announced him as part of an Evolution reunion for Smackdown 1000. Which is weird since Evolution was a strictly RAW faction, but hey...


So all that stuff from a few days ago about Hunter trying to bury Bats with no invite turns out to be just more IWC and shit-sheet nonsense? Just more obsessive frothing at the mouth from those stuck permanently in 2005? How about that? Well, it's a-one and a-two and a-how do you do...


Matte - 9-29-2018 at 10:24 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
So all that stuff from a few days ago about Hunter trying to bury Bats with no invite turns out to be just more IWC and shit-sheet nonsense? Just more obsessive frothing at the mouth from those stuck permanently in 2005?

Not exactly. It was Batista himself who started it, first by talking about WWE and HHH ignoring his calls and then tweeting that he wasn’t invited to SmackDown 1000.


First 9 - 9-30-2018 at 12:04 AM

I wonder if Batista was /is setting up a reverse Hollywood Rock angle with Batista being humble about his success but wrestlers,especially management, being bitter about it and turning on him.

Big Dave had been fanning the IWC's flames for months about WWE having it against him. The most blatant one being that he claims they contacted him about teaming with Ronday Rousey for the WM tag match, he said he was up for it and then they never reached back.

Wouldn't be suprised if the Evolutiong reunion is used to plant the seeds of the Batista vs HHH WM match he's been talking about for years.


Paddlefoot - 9-30-2018 at 01:56 AM

"The only things that are real about the business are the money and the miles"

- Kevin Nash


PB-13 - 9-30-2018 at 07:09 AM

Punishment Martinez finished up with ROH tonight, dropping the TV Title to Jeff Cobb at the TV taping. Da Meltz says he's signing with WWE.


Count Zero - 10-1-2018 at 02:01 AM

Huh. I never really saw Punishment as a WWE-Guy for some unknown reason. I wish him the best in his future endeavours. The ones in the WWE I mean.

He's definitely got some flashy moves, if he's allowed to bust them out in the Professional Entertainment.

[Edited on 10-1-2018 by Count Zero]


CCharger - 10-1-2018 at 02:48 PM

* The WWE is going all in on the Miz vs. Bryan feud suggesting that it will be a long build culminating at Wrestlemania

* The fallout from the recent meeting of WWE and Impact officials is that the WWE no longer sees Impact as competition and Impact no longer sees WWE as a threat. The two sides agreed to work toward a friendly partnership.

* Early rumors are that the WWE is planning a major push for Randy Orton in 2019 including a repeat Royal Rumble victory and another championship run


Flash - 10-1-2018 at 05:27 PM

I wouldn't hate Orton getting another (short) title run; like it or not he is one of wrestling's most decorated champions ever so I think there are stories you could tell that might even make Cena's probable surpassing of Flair mean a bit more.... But really, there is absolutely no need for him to win a third rumble... Save that for Reigns to tie Austin as a milestone, or better yet use the rumble to elevate some to the next level.


williamssl - 10-1-2018 at 07:49 PM

There is zero reason for him to win the Rumble again. He can be a fine transitional champ between AJ and whoever is next, but he doesn't need a Rumble victory and subsequent WM title victory in order to do that.

Also, the last time this played out we got Jinder as the play-it-forward champion.


SpiNNeR72 - 10-1-2018 at 08:35 PM

No rush for Reigns to get another win yet, he can wait till he is climbing the hill again. There are two standouts just now for that and they are Lashley and McIntyre, though I will be surprised this (ok, next) year if it isn't the very obvious Strownam win.

In other news - Daniel Bryan has jumped in in defense of his wife and I have to say makes a strong case.


CCharger - 10-1-2018 at 09:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
In other news - Daniel Bryan has jumped in in defense of his wife and I have to say makes a strong case.

Where?


williamssl - 10-1-2018 at 10:20 PM

A bunch of tweets.
rajah.com summary of them

Boils down to "hey a lot of people inadvertently hurt other people in the ring and here's a bunch of examples of when I did it and she's being unfairly singled out / facing heightened scrutiny for it"


It's a fair argument. I would say a potential counter is...he isn't (and others aren't) seemingly injuring people / botching on a weekly basis at the 'level' of WWE.

Can't comment on the social media commentary. I stay the hell out of reading that shit.


Paddlefoot - 10-1-2018 at 11:18 PM

Alternate translation - "I have to stick up for her or I'll never get laid again".


CCharger - 10-2-2018 at 01:51 PM

* Neville, wrestling under his old indie moniker PAC, returned to the ring in Japan for Dragon Gate.

* WWE is expected to move toward a "tiered" programming model with the top tier being more expensive than the bottom tier. The tiers will also be different in terms of ratings with the top tier being TV-14


DKBroiler - 10-2-2018 at 04:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I wouldn't hate Orton getting another (short) title run; like it or not he is one of wrestling's most decorated champions ever so I think there are stories you could tell that might even make Cena's probable surpassing of Flair mean a bit more.... But really, there is absolutely no need for him to win a third rumble... Save that for Reigns to tie Austin as a milestone, or better yet use the rumble to elevate some to the next level.


Better idea ... have Kofi eliminate Orton last to win and restart the push that Orton had haulted like 8 years ago that would have cemented Kofi as a main eventer.

For the love of God, why can’t we get The New Day members into the WWE Championship picture? Kofi hasn’t just paid dues, my man repaid them with interest. What’s not to love?

Over? Check
Merch Mover? Check
Good Matches? Check
Long history of being a professional? Check
Long history of winning every secondary title? Check
Long history of amazing moments without a signature singles win despite DOZENS of life risking signature spots? Check

I can’t even blame his size because he’s the same size as AJ, HBK, Dolph and a bunch of other former champs. Hell, he’s even a minority. That doesn’t hurt even though it’s laughably unnecessary with his list of accolades.

Give this man a title shot. You want to close WM to the cheers of 80,000 people and sell millions of shirts instantly? Let Kofi win the WWE Championship. The you deserve it chants would be deafening.

[Edited on 10-2-2018 by DKBroiler]


salmonjunkie - 10-2-2018 at 06:30 PM

I wanted Kofi to win the MITB match so bad, even though I knew Braun was going to win.

I'd love to see Kofi as the champ. He totally deserves it.

When was the last time he was in a title match? The Brock Lesnar squash in Tokyo?

[Edited on 10-2-2018 by salmonjunkie]


bigfatgoalie - 10-2-2018 at 06:50 PM

Kofi as champ would be great. But....I think things are set up for the WWE title to go from AJ to Miz to Daniel Bryan.

Where does Kofi get a title run? If Miz wins the belt at SmackDown 1000, you could do a surprise win on SmackDown...but that would be 2 quick title changes. Maybe the December PPV before dropping it back to Miz at the Rumble?

And all of that lessens Miz’s expected run.

Over on RAW...Ambrose, Rollins, Braun, KO, and maybe even Dolph or Drew seem more likely to get title reigns. Oh yeah. Roman. He will likely keep the belt for a while.

Is a one month or less Kofi run really worth it?


TownOfDalem - 10-2-2018 at 07:25 PM

Any titles run for Kofi is worth it, but I think he should be the top choice if they decide not to have Miz/Bryan for the title. Kofi/Styles, Kofi/Joe, Kofi/Orton, whatever. They all sound good to me.


First 9 - 10-2-2018 at 07:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
When was the last time he was in a title match? The Brock Lesnar squash in Tokyo?

[Edited on 10-2-2018 by salmonjunkie]


It wasn't even a Title match. With the exception of the Royal Rumble WWE Title match and token participation in stuff like the old Elimination Chamber World Title matches, I don't remember Kofi ever having a real shot.

[Edited on 10-2-2018 by First 9]


G. Jonah Jameson - 10-2-2018 at 07:49 PM

I like Kofi Kingston, and would be 100 percent on board with him getting a feel-good title reign, but I'd prefer the AJ Styles-The Miz-Daniel Bryan sequence we all anticipate play out first. Kingston can win the belt from whoever takes it off Bryan.

quote:
Originally posted by salmonjunkie
When was the last time he was in a title match? The Brock Lesnar squash in Tokyo?
[Edited on 10-2-2018 by salmonjunkie]


Brock Lesnar wasn't WWE Champion at the time. Kingston's last title shot would have been the 2016 Royal Rumble match -- not much of a feather in the cap, considering he shared that title shot with the likes of Tyler Breeze, Curtis Axel and Titus O'Neil.


Flash - 10-2-2018 at 07:55 PM

Hasn't one of the big knocks against Kofi been psychology, or at least consistency... Like he'll sell a move for a moment but then completely forget about it a minute later? Hasn't he also generally gone from high spot to high spot?

I'm not saying he hasn't improved, or taking anything away from him (he might be one of the all time most athletically gifted athletes in the WWE), just that there have been reasons why he might have peaked out for so long before now.

There's no denying that the New Day is amongst the WWE's most over acts for the past several years, but for most of his career I'd lump Kofi in with guys like Kidman, Bourne, Gabriel, Benjamin, Morrison, and X-Pac... He's probably top of the list for those guys, but most of them are guys who had like 80% of the formula to be a massively over guy but just seemed to miss that final ingredient.


Paddlefoot - 10-2-2018 at 08:45 PM

Given the overload of talent they have right now I can't see Kofi getting a good singles run anytime soon. He'll either have to stay on a team perpetually or end up as some kind of better than usual JTTS just to stay on TV, given the number of guys that are already underutilized due to the packed roster.


CCharger - 10-3-2018 at 03:21 PM

* According to Meltzer, the WWE offered Hangman Adam Page a contract, but he turned it down because the Bullet Club - himself, Cody, Omega, and the Young Bucks - are insisting on negotiating and making any move as a group.


bigfatgoalie - 10-3-2018 at 05:45 PM

Rumours are that Survivor Series will focus on Team Corbin vs Team Angle for control of RAW, and not SmackDown vs RAW.

So another 2 months of Shield vs Braun & Friends.

The matches will be fine, but I’m ready for something different. And no, adding in KO and Balor (just guessing) in to the mix isn’t that.


Flash - 10-4-2018 at 03:04 AM

Hey check this out: https://youtu.be/4mcd8BAjU0c (I suck at embedding)

An extremely rare Mark Calloway interview (safe for work) with a pastor, and I mean Mark, not Undertaker; touches on a number of topics but really outside of maybe a PSA he did for an animal rescue shelter a few years ago probably the first time we've seen the man behind the Undertaker talk openly about his life and career.

Lot's in there about psychology, his legacy, the attitude era, his faith, and don't take pictures of him from afar on the sly like a jackass and then come up to him; just man up and ask him for a pic but not when his kids are around.

[Edited on 10-4-2018 by Flash]


Paddlefoot - 10-4-2018 at 09:33 PM

* Psycho Sid commented that he thinks Paige should have been fired by WWE when the leaks of her naughty videos were hacked and released last year

* Jerry Lawler, proving that one pussy-grabber will stand up for another pussy-grabber, was an attendee at the Donald Trump rally in Mississippi a couple of days ago where POSPOTUS ragged on Christine Blasey-Ford for her allegations of being attacked by Brett Kavanaugh when she was fifteen years old

* Shinsuke Nakamura, who has commented that he isn't happy with the way his feud with AJ Styles worked out, says he wants a do-over someday because he thinks that the both of them can do much better than they were allowed to show in their first go-around against each other


CCharger - 10-4-2018 at 11:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* Psycho Sid commented that he thinks Paige should have been fired by WWE when the leaks of her naughty videos were hacked and released last year


Sure. Let's punish the woman for having private photos leaked without her consent. I'm guessing Sid never recommended that Woods should be fired too?


GodEatGod - 10-5-2018 at 12:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Alternate translation - "I have to stick up for her or I'll never get laid again".


Alternate: He genuinely loves his wife and thinks she gets a bad rap from nerds who couldn't lace her boots.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Brie is a great wrestler by any means, but the idea that she's suddenly this horrible hazard because of a couple of missed spots is silly. She went through a bad streak, while rusty. As Bryan points out, she'd never hurt anybody at all in the ten years beforehand.

I get not being fans of the Bellas, but I've never understood the vitriol they inspire in certain segments of the fan base.


Paddlefoot - 10-5-2018 at 03:02 AM

The Bellas got caught in the wake of the forgettable two-minute Divas matches that Vince and Johnny Ace loved to boot. Women's revolution saved women's wrestling on WWE but only after the Divas era had effectively killed it. And, once again with the booking, the Bellas also got caught by the high school mean-girls sort of heel that WWE apparently thought was the only female heel type worth having. With Beth Phoenix long out of the picture, Kharma being kind of a emotional-meltdown debacle, and Tamina occasional-hit-mostly-miss due to repeat injuries and from just being a void of charisma that never connected at all with the crowd, they didn't have the female crusher heel to fall back on at all. High school mean got wildly played out and by the time the Bellas employed it on AJ Lee then Paige they became the de facto recipients of the audience anger/boredom with seeing it over and over and over again.

As for Brie she might be the nicest* person in the world but she's still got to take most of the rap for what happened to Liv as well as her own near-fatal botch spots. A performer does have a certain degree of responsibility to say "I don't think I can do this right" to keep themselves and others safe even if Vince is pushing them hard to go to a limit they're not capable of. Unlike Emma, who got canned for a combination of too many injuries and for openly saying the Emmalina idea was kind of beyond her (and, not to mention, also saying it was kind of stupid), Brie would be in no danger of repercussions if she said "I can't do these rope dives right, I'm not doing these kicks right". For one, being DB's wife she's safe because they're still at the point where they don't want to piss him off and lose him (just yet anyway) and, two, being a focal point on the two E programs means she's even safer. It's kind of like when Hugh Jackman, another notoriously nice person but also basically a huge mass of muscle in his own right, almost broke Ziggler's jaw for real when he got over-excited and legit punched him during one of his promo appearances for a Wolverine movie - both the person and WWE gotta evaluate much better what they're capable of doing without fucking up the other performer. It's simply the responsible thing to do. If WWE is the top of the industry and wants the reputation of taking safety seriously then these kinds of injuries are kind of unforgivable.

* this is keeping in mind that the Bellas also have the rumour-world rep of using their stroke to keep other women off the roster, which has also now morphed into stories of them doing the same to get on the Evolution PPV card and maybe even becoming the first WWE women's tag champs at the expense of far more talented performers that have come up from NXT - "nice" in this business might be entirely in the eye of the beholder

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* Psycho Sid commented that he thinks Paige should have been fired by WWE when the leaks of her naughty videos were hacked and released last year


Sure. Let's punish the woman for having private photos leaked without her consent. I'm guessing Sid never recommended that Woods should be fired too?


As per Brett Kavanaugh, the GOP judiciary committee, and the current POTUS, it's always the women that are entirely to blame. The guys are merely just being happy, horny, fun-loving guys and all that.




[Edited on 10/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Paddlefoot - 10-5-2018 at 07:30 PM

* Pete Dunne suffered a foot injury at a WWE UK event on Sept 30 and has now been pulled from upcoming events

* something insane happened at a MLW indie show in Chicago last night where apparently Low-Ki nearly ripped an entire ear off the head of his opponent, Daga from Lucha Underground; no info yet as to whether it was due to a botch or if the notoriously temperamental Low-Ki spontaneously flipped out and did it on purpose



[Edited on 10/5/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Flash - 10-6-2018 at 08:03 AM

Lawler's commented on his attendance at the Trump rally, as no surprise; he's gotten a lot of hate mail:

“We were asked by some people to go to the rally and I went and unbelievably received from some social media some actual hate mail just for going to the rally of Donald Trump.”

“But I tell everybody… I wasn’t going there to see the President, I was going to see a fellow WWE Hall Of Famer… that’s all.”

He would tell TMZ that he was going there to support a friend.

Bit split on this one; I mean I think the obvious thing here is that Lawler is pretty much missing the boat on people's hate; People don't hate the office of the president, it's Trump that they aren't cool with you supporting, be it POTUS Trump or WWE HOF Trump.

On the other if Lawler's getting death threats over this which has been intimated, that's way too far.


CVD39 - 10-6-2018 at 08:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
Lawler's commented on his attendance at the Trump rally, as no surprise; he's gotten a lot of hate mail:

“We were asked by some people to go to the rally and I went and unbelievably received from some social media some actual hate mail just for going to the rally of Donald Trump.”

“But I tell everybody… I wasn’t going there to see the President, I was going to see a fellow WWE Hall Of Famer… that’s all.”

He would tell TMZ that he was going there to support a friend.

Bit split on this one; I mean I think the obvious thing here is that Lawler is pretty much missing the boat on people's hate; People don't hate the office of the president, it's Trump that they aren't cool with you supporting, be it POTUS Trump or WWE HOF Trump.

On the other if Lawler's getting death threats over this which has been intimated, that's way too far.


His reasoning is bullshit. But death threats? For just attending the rally? Jesus.


CamstunPWG187 - 10-6-2018 at 09:42 AM

Lawler isn’t stupid, and neither are people who he thinks he’s bullshitting.

Then again, wrestling fans, on average, are of lesser intelligence than other sports fans, so I’m not surprised by his treating us like morons.


CCharger - 10-6-2018 at 11:19 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
wrestling fans, on average, are of lesser intelligence than other sports.

Can confirm.


Flash - 10-7-2018 at 05:59 AM

I don't know guys... we've got an awful lot of English degrees on here; clearly that was a wise investment on all of our parts


CamstunPWG187 - 10-7-2018 at 07:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
wrestling fans, on average, are of lesser intelligence than other sports.

Can confirm.


What do you mean? You edited my post with a period after “sports”.


Paddlefoot - 10-7-2018 at 07:46 AM

The average conversation in any NFL chatroom or Facebook page would clearly suggest that football fans would vigourously contest for the title of dumbest-fans-period against any and all comers. They'd probably easily beat out clowns like us for that honour.


CamstunPWG187 - 10-8-2018 at 04:44 AM

We aren’t “average” by any stretch.

I mean, we have all interacted with a variety of arena fans, and I’d say an NFL Crowd seems much more adult by comparison.

[Edited on 10-8-2018 by CamstunPWG187]


nOOb - 10-8-2018 at 10:48 AM

We’ve got to be better than NFL fans. Never mind the fact that half of them are idiots who take a few years to realize someone’s not on a team anymore, or will defend the hiring of Jon Gruden as one of the smartest football decisions of the year (seriously, still people defending that). But have you seen those people on TV? We’ve just got to be better than them. Example: I think we’re all on the same page that we universally love Becky Lynch on these boards here. But 99% of us aren’t going to the arena (or anywhere else) in full Becky Lynch costume, or getting her face buzzed into our hair, or getting a tattoo related to her in any way. Granted, when that 1% does do that, it reflects a lot worse on the rest of us than when those idiots in the Pepsi commercials do similar for their teams. But still.


CCharger - 10-8-2018 at 03:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by CamstunPWG187
wrestling fans, on average, are of lesser intelligence than other sports.

Can confirm.


What do you mean? You edited my post with a period after “sports”.

Sorry. My post seemed to have caused some cOOnsternation.

I was referencing only myself, not wrestling fans in general. The fact that I mis-typed and left off "fans" reinforces this fact.


First 9 - 10-8-2018 at 04:06 PM

I like how this conversation pops up just a few days after the MMA world is set on fire with the batshit public assaults that happened right after the main event of a UFC ppv. With some rabid fans saying McGregor deserved to get cheapshotted by some asshole jumping over the cage or the tribal McGregor fans sreaming out for jail time against his assailants while ignoring the fact thatMcGregor threw a fucking dolly at a bus.



[Edited on 10-8-2018 by First 9]


CCharger - 10-8-2018 at 04:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
I like how this conversation pops up just a few days after the MMA world is set on fire with the batshit public assaults that happened right after the main event of a UFC ppv. With some rabid fans saying McGregor deserved to get cheapshotted by some asshole jumping over the cage or the tribal McGregor fans sreaming out for jail time against his assailants while ignoring the fact thatMcGregor threw a fucking dolly at a bus.
[Edited on 10-8-2018 by First 9]

Yeah, agreed.

The one thing I still don't understand is the whole "McGregor is a racist!" thing that is popping up. I'm not defending him necessarily, it's just no one has been able to point anything specific out to me other than calling Khabib "a backwards cunt" which IMO is stretching the definition of racism pretty damn thin.


Paddlefoot - 10-8-2018 at 04:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
I like how this conversation pops up just a few days after the MMA world is set on fire with the batshit public assaults that happened right after the main event of a UFC ppv. With some rabid fans saying McGregor deserved to get cheapshotted by some asshole jumping over the cage or the tribal McGregor fans sreaming out for jail time against his assailants while ignoring the fact thatMcGregor threw a fucking dolly at a bus.


And injured people on the bus as well, and basically got a slap on the wrist for it. You'd never see anyone in WWE do that and skate off freely afterwards - not even Orton's stupid young behaviour or pre-born again HBK comes close. Dana White's league o' felons is almost the perfect metaphor for the modern age, be as much of a cunt as you want both inside and outside the ring because if you make enough money for the boss what you do or how you behave just doesn't matter. It's almost like UFC is a non-stop 24/7/365 passenger plane Flight From Hell where instead of getting fired or buried the worst offenders end up with the biggest rewards.

Hell, after enough media embarrassment even the NFL would eventually get around to holding any of their guys who behaved like McGregor to account. *cough*cough* Ray Lewis *cough*

EDIT - found this, as per Chuck Lidell on his IG account a couple of days ago:

quote:
Incredible performance by both fighters @thenotoriousmma and @khabib_nurmagomedov But to end it like they did was a huge embarrassment to the sport. We (fighters)are sportsmen and champions and we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. We owe it to our fans and the sport itself. I don't know when things started turning into some kind of s--t show?!!! Unfortunately, when you allow more and more B.S. during weigh ins and outside of fights; You only slap fighters on the wrist for acting like barbarians and then offer them bigger contracts and reward them for this behavior. There is no penalty for their actions and it condones this type of behavior and consequently our sport loses its sacred respect.


[Edited on 10/8/2018 by Paddlefoot]


TownOfDalem - 10-8-2018 at 06:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
The one thing I still don't understand is the whole "McGregor is a racist!" thing that is popping up. I'm not defending him necessarily, it's just no one has been able to point anything specific out to me other than calling Khabib "a backwards cunt" which IMO is stretching the definition of racism pretty damn thin.


The quote you use was used in relation Khabib not drinking alcohol due to his religious beliefs. Sort of the definition of racism (or at least bigoted beliefs) right there. There was also calling Khabib a "smelly Dagestani rat" (Dagestani being where Khabib is from) and his manager a terrorist traitor.

Not to mention the "monkey" and "dance for me, boy" comments when McGregor was facing Mayweather.

Those are five examples.


First 9 - 10-8-2018 at 08:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot

EDIT - found this, as per Chuck Lidell on his IG account a couple of days ago:

Incredible performance by both fighters @thenotoriousmma and @khabib_nurmagomedov But to end it like they did was a huge embarrassment to the sport. We (fighters)are sportsmen and champions and we should hold ourselves to a higher standard. We owe it to our fans and the sport itself. I don't know when things started turning into some kind of s--t show?!!! Unfortunately, when you allow more and more B.S. during weigh ins and outside of fights; You only slap fighters on the wrist for acting like barbarians and then offer them bigger contracts and reward them for this behavior. There is no penalty for their actions and it condones this type of behavior and consequently our sport loses its sacred respect.


Really must dissapoint/piss-off guys from the early 00s like Lidell who were doing everything possible to get MMA accepted in the mainstream and kill it's negative stigma...just for a couple of idiots to take on shit on all that.

[Edited on 10-8-2018 by First 9]


CCharger - 10-8-2018 at 08:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
The one thing I still don't understand is the whole "McGregor is a racist!" thing that is popping up. I'm not defending him necessarily, it's just no one has been able to point anything specific out to me other than calling Khabib "a backwards cunt" which IMO is stretching the definition of racism pretty damn thin.


The quote you use was used in relation Khabib not drinking alcohol due to his religious beliefs. Sort of the definition of racism (or at least bigoted beliefs) right there. There was also calling Khabib a "smelly Dagestani rat" (Dagestani being where Khabib is from) and his manager a terrorist traitor.

Not to mention the "monkey" and "dance for me, boy" comments when McGregor was facing Mayweather.

Those are five examples.

Well, that's not entirely accurate.

Calling someone a "backwards cunt" for not drinking alcohol? I mean I could say the same thing about teetotaling Christians in West Virginia? That struck me as Conor mocking Khabib not drinking whiskey and nothing to do with his religion.

Calling him a "Dagestani rat"? That's racist? It's not bigoted if he just called him a "smelly rat"? Only if he factually calls him one from Dagestan? Again, seems like a stretch.

The terrorist stuff is also factual:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/05/conor-mcgregor-accuses-khabib-nurmagomedovs-manager-being-terrorist/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6e112f10 f4ce

McGregor was referring, at least in part, to reports that Abdelaziz worked several years ago as a government counterterrorism informant. His name appears in a 2013 book titled “Enemies Within: Inside the NYPD’s Secret Spying Unit and bin Laden’s Final Plot Against America,” in which authors Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman (via Bloody Elbow) claim that Abdelaziz was recruited by the New York Police Department to work as a mole within a Virginia-based arm of a group called Muslims of America.

According to the book, the NYPD shared Abdelaziz with the FBI, but the federal agency eventually began to suspect he was operating as a double agent, particularly after he was reportedly administered a polygraph examination. “The FBI severed its relationship with Abdelaziz,” the authors wrote, “and the government tried unsuccessfully to deport him.”

Lastly, the Mayweather stuff. At no time did he call Mayweather a monkey. The "dance for me, boy" stuff happened while Mayweather was shadowboxing for the crowd and can be attributed to the Irishman not knowing the American connotation of the phrase.

Full disclosure: I'm a McGregor fanboi, so my arguments here may come off as excuses. I just think that those who hate McGregor can take things out of context to paint him in a negative light.


TownOfDalem - 10-8-2018 at 09:04 PM

I'm certainly not going to tell you who to root for or not root for. You just said no one has been able to point to anything specific and I came with five specific instances. You can explain away each one, but at a certain point if he keeps quacking like a duck over and over again he just might be a racist. Doesn't mean you can't find him entertaining or even root for him to win, but I would suggest not explaining away shitty behavior.

On the other had, who am I to tell you what to do?


CCharger - 10-8-2018 at 09:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
I'm certainly not going to tell you who to root for or not root for. You just said no one has been able to point to anything specific and I came with five specific instances. You can explain away each one, but at a certain point if he keeps quacking like a duck over and over again he just might be a racist. Doesn't mean you can't find him entertaining or even root for him to win, but I would suggest not explaining away shitty behavior.

On the other had, who am I to tell you what to do?

No, I get it and I am not looking to pick a fight.


TownOfDalem - 10-8-2018 at 09:16 PM

No problems here dude.


CCharger - 10-8-2018 at 10:39 PM

* Apparently the plan all along was Taker/Michaels. The HHH/Michaels vs. Brothers of Destruction was just used to build to that.

* There is a new regime in charge of New Japan Pro Wrestling and apparently several stars including Tanahashi are disgruntled with some of the recent booking decisions.

* It is almost a certainty that Hulk Hogan will appear at Smackdown 1000 and the WWE is trying hard to pair his appearance with The Rock. The hope is that Hogan sharing the ring with a POC will appease those angered with his racist language.


First 9 - 10-8-2018 at 10:43 PM

It'd probably go over better than the time they tried to use The Rock to get Roman over.


vonLampertheim - 10-9-2018 at 12:30 AM

* Dave Meltzer mentioned on Wrestling Observer Radio that while WWE announced an attendance of 70,309 fans, the actual attendance at Super Show-Down was closer to 62,000.

This seems legit, as I noticed a lot of camera shots that kept the frame tight on the lower bowl to try and minimise exposure of the upper decks. I read many complaints about the minimalist house show stage setup (especially in the middle of a cavernous stadium), and I agree that any crowd noise didn't translate well to TV. The was nothing for the sound to reverberate off of, with no roof and the stands being so far back.

I think this whole concept of an open air show on a cricket pitch was a bad idea that wasn't particularly well executed by the company, and it is unfortunate that a collateral damage talking point was that Australian wrestling crowds are crap.


Flash - 10-9-2018 at 09:21 PM

Honestly outside of arena shows where pretty precise numbers are given because they are easier to verify, the WWE only inflating this show by 8-9k is probably one of their smaller exaggerations.


CCharger - 10-10-2018 at 02:44 PM

* Shawn Michaels is planning on wrestling at Mania 35, probably against HHH

* WWE is expected to increase NXT's budget including opening Performance Centers in the UK, Japan, and Mexico.


TownOfDalem - 10-10-2018 at 06:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Shawn Michaels is planning on wrestling at Mania 35, probably against HHH

* WWE is expected to increase NXT's budget including opening Performance Centers in the UK, Japan, and Mexico.


I don't generally rail against the Old-timers like many do, but if HBK doesn't get a couple of matches against new people like Styles/Bryan/KO/Finn/Shield or whoever I will be supremely pissed. The Undertaker storyline is great storytelling (if meh wrestling), but it should wrap up around Survivor Series and transition to someone HBK hasn't already wrestled a million times and not HHH. Having him come out of retirement just to face a bunch of old foes would be a waste of time. I can watch HHH/HBK on the network whenever I want.

Very pro more regional NXTs.


CCharger - 10-10-2018 at 06:44 PM

I think putting HBK up against Styles or Bryan or Rollins or any similar younger guys would really expose HBK's age. I don't think he can keep up with any of those guys, and the matches would be embarrassing and bad.

WWE is smart to put him against older guys where the plodding style doesn't stick out so much.


TownOfDalem - 10-10-2018 at 06:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I think putting HBK up against Styles or Bryan or Rollins or any similar younger guys would really expose HBK's age. I don't think he can keep up with any of those guys, and the matches would be embarrassing and bad.

WWE is smart to put him against older guys where the plodding style doesn't stick out so much.


I think it's premature to make that judgment, I'm not passed the idea that those guys can carry HBK to good matches. Putting him with a fellow old person means HBK has to be the athletic one carrying the match. I suspect that exposes his age more.

However, assuming your correct, he could still go against someone like KO or Ambrose where he can do a more brawling style match that doesn't rely on athleticism. I'd still rather try that then only seeing him against fellow old timers.


Flash - 10-10-2018 at 09:31 PM

I also think HBK has generally had a pretty good grasp on what he can and can't do in the ring; If we do get him back for a few mini feuds then maybe it means adapting shorter 10-15 matches instead of the usual 25 minute plus stuff we used to see out of him.

HBK has always been pretty good as going at a quicker pace and hitting a number of high spots but I think at the end of the day what has made one of the all time greats is his understanding of psychology... I think a good grasp of knowing your audience and what works and doesn't work can carry an average or good ring performer to all time great status far better than being great in the ring but having no grasp of working your audience.


bigfatgoalie - 10-10-2018 at 11:16 PM

You know how folks talk about how they enjoy wrestling Orton because he’s safe?

I think Shawn knows there are better matches to be had, but is comfortable working with Hunter, and Taker. He knows what type of promos to deliver, knows the notes to hit to sell the match, and knows pretty much how the match will go.

If he’s just doing it for the huge payday and fun...easy to see why he’d go that route.

Although if he is going to give the rub to anyone, how about Balor? A simple Too Sweet pose in to a super kick and you are off and running. Shawn can claim Balor is just another HBK rip off, and Balor can bump and sell to make Shawn look good.


AmericanNightmare - 10-11-2018 at 12:41 AM

I only remember this now because of BFG's post, but wasn't there some Bullet Club/DX business at one of the RAW anniversary shows (or something) in the recent past?

Not that I'd expect WWE to follow up in any way, but it's there for them to use. I'd be happy to see X-Pac come back for a bit, as well.


DevilSoprano - 10-11-2018 at 12:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by AmericanNightmare
I only remember this now because of BFG's post, but wasn't there some Bullet Club/DX business at one of the RAW anniversary shows (or something) in the recent past?

Not that I'd expect WWE to follow up in any way, but it's there for them to use. I'd be happy to see X-Pac come back for a bit, as well.


There was. DX & Balor Club destroyed The Revival.


DKBroiler - 10-11-2018 at 03:19 AM

The last time HBK had a comeback he essentially said that he wasn’t sure what he could do and within 90 seconds of the opening bell against HHH they both knew that HBK was 100% ready to be HBK.

I’m guessing that they are slow rolling his comeback with a tag match to see if 100% HBK is even possible. Chances are they have a few plans that range from “oh shit, he’s cooked. Let’s just play the hits” to “holy shit HBK looks like he never left and can run circles around anyone not named Styles or Rollins”.

If he gets through that I’m sure they will re-evaluate. Vince and HHH love the legacy of HBK but not as much as they love money. If all goes well I fully expect another Rock v Hogan WM type 18 feud. As long as they don’t use Roman it will be fine. Bryan, Styles or Rollins would work perfectly. I could definitely see Rollins v HBK being the WM end game on this one.


Paddlefoot - 10-11-2018 at 03:35 AM

It all depends on Shawn and how he feels about a semi-full time role but I'd send him to SD first for a few months because the matches he could have there with DB, AJ, Shelton (again), Miz, Cesaro, and some of the others would be off-the-hook mayhem. Then let him wrap it up on RAW against Rollins, Dolph, Balor, Owens, and whoever else.

It would probably be the greatest out-of-retirement bit of awesomeness ever seen. Normally I want the retirees to stay that way but if HBK is up to it willing to do a couple of jobs against the newer guys then why the hell not. As long as they keep it as pure-HBK solo and not a bunch of unfunny DX crap from the box of stupid skits for the hundredth time then fucking go for broke with him.


OORick - 10-11-2018 at 04:11 AM

Regarding the Saudi show:

I was pretty gung-ho for the first one, being one of the very first bits of "westernization" of the country, as part of a 10 Year Plan.

I think it's getting harder to buy into the "10 Year Plan," when Prince MBS is doubling down on 10 Years Ago. If you've been living under a rock, there's this story:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/crown-prince-sought-to-lure-khashoggi-back-to-saudi-arabia-and-detain-him-us-intercepts-sh ow/2018/10/10/57bd7948-cc9a-11e8-920f-dd52e1ae4570_story.html?utm_term=.f551eec897dc&noredirect=on

At no point does WWE come into play, but if you read a decent amount of news with a global or intelligence desk (I get by with a mix of WashPo and Axios), you know that the influx of western cash that was intended for Saudi Arabia is more or less on hold. Because we're now pretty sure MBS murdered Khashoggi.

This is probably not a big deal for this upcoming Saudi event. But for anyone wondering why I was snarky about the upcoming event? Well, there's your answer. No rational person can believe the narrative that existed 10 months ago when this initial "westernization" pact with the Saudi Prince and WWE was signed....

If WWE chooses to believe it beyond next month? That might not be wise, unless something else is forthcoming soon....

[Edited on 10-11-2018 by OORick]


Paddlefoot - 10-11-2018 at 04:46 AM

No shame in calling a disgrace a disgrace, dawg. We'll definitely hear HHH or Steph go on about the Saudis being "a changing culture, we gotta give them some leeway" again, even though anyone with the slightest bit of knowledge of that place knows it's a complete and total crock on the same level of "this Lord Humungous seems like a decent chap, let's go talk to him". All that's gonna happen is that the Saudis might not drop JDAM's on some Yemeni school buses the week before and the week after the WWE's visit in order to ensure that Vince schedules another visit there soon, but after that they'll quite easily return to their regular daily activities and other assorted murder & mayhem.


CVD39 - 10-11-2018 at 08:28 PM

Yeah, this whole thing feels icky. I’m really hoping I don’t watch this but I know I probably will.


Paddlefoot - 10-11-2018 at 08:36 PM

Gonna have to put up with the icky feels for a long time because apparently the deal between WWE and Saudi is for a decade's worth of shows.

* Kevin Owens will be out for the remainder of 2018 to address his knee issues and in the worst case scenario could be out for upwards of eight months

* the Iron Sheikh, or at least whoever is managing his Twitter account, is playing peacemaker in a truly stupid feud between Insane Clown Posse and Limp Bizkit; over the weekend at a show in New Jersey, Shaggy 2 Dope from ICP went nuts and aimed a dropkick at Fred Durst and they've been arguing back and forth on social media about it since; the Sheikh stepped in and told both of them to knock it off because he's pals with both sides and doesn't want to see them fight; legit or not the idea of the Sheikh playing this role of Ghandi between two teams of total idiots is truly peak-2018, aka the year everything stopped making any sense at all - fuckin' jabronis, how do they work?!?!?!


OORick - 10-11-2018 at 10:01 PM

I thought things would evolve a bit more slowly, as the West took its own sweet time to find its conscience....

But things are picking up quickly, in terms of companies and individuals pulling back from participation in MBS' 10 year plan. Link: https://www.axios.com/companies-saudi-arabia-conference-khashoggi-disappearance-153deaec-1282-4723-91f2-2ea8998d5fe2.html

I thought Crown Jewel would still be safely under the radar in 3 weeks, and WWE would only have to re-evaluate later.... but it would appear that the shit is already hitting the fan, putting WWE in a tough spot if they continue to tout their relationship with Saudi Arabia even as other companies are cutting ties.


the goon - 10-11-2018 at 10:27 PM

As someone who has no idea what the WWE's working relationship is with the Saudis, I wonder if they would be able to pull the plug on Crown Jewel if they so choose or are they contractually obligated to put the show on, no matter how much bad press it may garner?


CCharger - 10-12-2018 at 12:06 AM

I would SHOCKED if WWE does anything to endanger it's lucrative relationship with the Saudis. Maybe a half-hearted press release or some shit, but the Saudi royals are throwing fuck you money at Vince and it's too valuable for WWE to turn down.


OORick - 10-12-2018 at 12:21 AM

Even the most strongly worded contract can be broken, provided the breaker is willing to pay the monetary consequences.

If there are penalties built into the contract, I would be more sympathetic to WWE trying to ride this out. If it's just a matter of WWE losing their negotiated fee for running the show(s), I would be more aggressive in calling for them to suspend such show(s) until the Saudis can provide some, ummmmm, "clarity."

There is some trickle-down to consider: HBK's entire comeback was greased by the Saudi money. WWE can't un-do that, at this point, even if "Crown Jewel" were to be skipped, which means they'd be making up the difference out of their own pocket.

Thing is: depending on how the next few days and weeks go, it might be cheaper to do that, rather than to be one of the few entities still pretending like it's perfectly OK to be in business with MBS.

I can't see this issue just going away. I'm surprised there isn't a greater already-existing focus on the status of "Crown Jewel" right now, but it's coming sooner than later. WWE can't sit on the fence much past this weekend, I figure.


CCharger - 10-12-2018 at 01:02 AM

It's important to remember that this isn't just a business deal with the Saudis.

This show along with Greatest Royal Rumble are massive, hours-long propaganda commercials for the Saudi royal family. WWE, like it or not, are not just innocent bystanders. They are at best enablers and at worst complicit.

And we all know this won't hurt their bottom line. Ask yourself, are you going to invest less in WWE because the Saudi government killed a journalist whose name you can't even pronounce?

Be honest.

[Edited on 10-12-2018 by CCharger]


denverpunk - 10-12-2018 at 04:41 AM

Charger has a point. The average WWE fan couldn’t care less about the doings of Saudi Arabia, and given the terrifying climate of our country right now, they might actually like the Saudis more because they murdered a journalist. If the fans can see HBK on a different PPV, then they’ll pay network fees to see him there. I do wonder what Mr. Jesus thinks about being part of this mess, though.

Eventually WWE has to cut their losses for taking blood money from despots, but their bottom line doesn’t change much.


Paddlefoot - 10-12-2018 at 05:22 AM

Trump himself said that he won't touch the new American weapons contracts with the Saudis no matter what they do in Yemen or with whatever hit squads they've got operating because making the money off of them is too important. There's no way that corporate America, including WWE, won't follow that lead. I'd like to think that was just another pure-Trump moment of being a 100% pure asshole, specific only to him because he's such a thoroughgoing and complete bastard, but it's also doubtful that any American president would get too publicly worked up about what the Saudis do. Those fuckers have had the US, and American policy, wrapped around their fingers since World War Two and there's nothing that will ever change that. As for WWE I imagine it would take something like a talent strike, with a large part of the roster refusing to go there, to make Vince change course on this, and that kind of action on part of the performers is so unlikely to ever happen that it's not worth talking about.


SpiNNeR72 - 10-12-2018 at 12:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I think putting HBK up against Styles or Bryan or Rollins or any similar younger guys would really expose HBK's age. I don't think he can keep up with any of those guys, and the matches would be embarrassing and bad.

WWE is smart to put him against older guys where the plodding style doesn't stick out so much.


Not only that but HBK himself has said that in interviews prior to this comeback. That matches against the like of Styles would just be a dissapointment to both the fans and himself, but a good storyline with Taker would be something he could work with.

As for the Saudi thing, it's all a matter of mainstream media perception. In thier own bubble WWE clearly thinks the May Young Classic and Evolution are a fair offset, and possibly so, if you consider that Saudi money to be good for all.


TownOfDalem - 10-12-2018 at 02:19 PM

As Rick indicated, the Saudi show was easier to sell a few months ago when they were making the big PR driven modernization push. I was certainly willing to by into the idea that progress can be slow, but being a part of it for a shit ton of money is worth it and justifiable for WWE. That argument has gotten harder. I think it's 50/50 that the show happens at this point. I'm not sure I can justify watching it.


CCharger - 10-12-2018 at 02:54 PM

*So, there's weird shit happening with Sasha Banks. She was initially reported out with an injury. Then a week later, WWE clarified that it was "medical issue" and rumors were that she was pregnant. Then she was not put on the Evolution poster. Now, reports are that she has "asked for a break". Yesterday, she was scheduled to do the MTV show "Ridiculousness", but was replaced by Becky Lynch. Whatever her situation is, WWE is being VERY tight lipped about it.


OORick - 10-12-2018 at 06:24 PM

Something else to consider: at the first Saudi event, Sami Zayn was not comfortable with the whole situation, and was allowed to stay home as a conscientious objector.

So let's say WWE sides with the mindset that "All governments do bad things, and we're still hoping that this Saudi government will be less bad than previous ones and in turn that will help make other middle eastern states less bad, too, so we're not gonna play the PR game of 'virtue signalling' for the sake of fleeting good press when it would cause long term damage to our bottom line".... and sadly, that has emerged as a vocal minority as most entities are cutting ties.

But if WWE allowed conscientious objection in April, you could reasonably ask them to allow it again now, when there's so much more to which one might object. And that raises all kinds of wacky variables... how many guys might actually feel strongly enough to opt out? If enough guys ask off, does WWE side the Dirty Money and threaten punishments, or do they just let it go? If WWE presents a "b-show," is that enough to keep the Dirty Money, or does it threaten the whole 10 year deal?

I have no idea about any of that. But it's interesting to think about what happens if WWE forges ahead, assuming the fans don't really care about such things.... only to find out their workers care very much, and there's precedent already in place to allow them to skip the show.


punkerhardcore - 10-12-2018 at 07:12 PM

Apparently the WWE has released a statement on the Saudi issue, which was basically, "we're looking into the situation."

That oughtta hold those SOBs-- Vince 'Kent Brockman' McMahon


Flash - 10-12-2018 at 08:16 PM

Just to give a different perspective, and probably not largely reported story down there in the USA/outside of Canada;

Several months ago Canadian foreign affairs minister Chrystia Freedland, who you may or may not know the name from all the NAFTA talks as she was one of the point women on the Canadian side throughout it (Trump took a lot of shots at Trudeau, not sure if he name checked her or not too) tweeted out some concerns about some social and women's activists being arrested by the Saudi's.

The Saudi's raged on about how Canada was interfering with their sovereignty, demanded apologies, and all that other stuff... words continued to be exchanged with both sides digging in.

Within a few days Saudi Arabia then proceeded to expelled all Canadian diplomats between the two countries, suspended all business between us and them, immediately stopped all foreign flights between the two countries, and worse still began to recall all students back to Saudi Arabia... I don't know how it might work down in the USA but Canadian universities are a popular studying place to train foreign doctors; They get a good education, we get countless doctors in training helping out in our healthcare system and hey; if a few want to stay on in Canada all the better. Saudi students represent thousands of these doctors in training. The Saudis have since eased a bit on the students given the damage they would also do to those same students, but the spat is still ongoing.

This was all over a tweet remember.

While most people outside of Canada may not know this story I'm sure many big businesses and countries doing business with the Saudis do, as this is apt to have ramifications both politically and financially for years.

So as much as it would be easy to say Vince and company should take a principled look at who they are in bed with, and that it might be easy to walk away from their deal... yeah you won't get the billions or whatever amount the long term deal is worth but you can feel good and get some good headlines out of it, and if the WWE has to eat this one show and it's big performer contracts no big deal... But the Saudis ARE dangerous, and Vince will have to carefully consider the enemy he might be making by embarrassing the Saudis back versus a few bad headlines that will most likely fade in a few weeks.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's not just over here that Vince has to worry about; the ruling Saudis are dangerous people who are capable of all kinds of shitty stuff and seem to like making examples out of people, countries, and businesses that cross them.


Paddlefoot - 10-12-2018 at 08:34 PM

Yeah, Vince is rich but he's not Saudi-levels of rich. As much fun as it usually is to put WWE on blast for doing stupid things it's kind of pathetic how badly they cornered themselves by making that deal with them. Their "worldwide leader in sports entertainment" propaganda really got them in a bad spot now that they probably aren't going to be able to wiggle out of. If someone at the table when this was being discussed had been ignored if they told Vince and Hunter that the Saudis are about the worst cretins in the world to do business with, and then got shrugged off because of the potential profits, then it's just head-shaking time at how stupid WWE is over the situation they're now in due to their own profit-obsessed myopia. At this stage they probably think it's better to just forge ahead because odds are very good that the majority of WWE viewers simply don't care and won't do things like cancel the Network in protest against the Saudis.


OORick - 10-12-2018 at 09:38 PM

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee just got wind of WWE's relationship with MBS... sounds like most of them were blindsided by the fact of the upcoming show/self-congragulatory-celebration-of-modernization, but the senator from Connecticut (WWE's home base) was more direct in suggesting the show ought to be postponed, at the very least.

Also, Linda McMahon's position as part of Trump's administration (head of the Small Business Administration) has been brought up as another reason why WWE might have to think long and hard about how they play this.

Link: https://ijr.com/senators-wwe-saudi-arabia-event-crown-jewl/


Paddlefoot - 10-13-2018 at 01:13 AM

Ouch! That's gotta hurt!

#WWECrownJewel pic.twitter.com/rtDRERd7uN

— Sean T. Collins (@theseantcollins) October 12, 2018




Wickedfrost - 10-13-2018 at 03:29 PM



To add: You were all thinking it.

[Edited on 10-13-2018 by Wickedfrost]


nOOb - 10-13-2018 at 04:07 PM

I, in fact, was. Good call, good call.


Accipiter - 10-13-2018 at 07:07 PM

This current situation in Saudi is much, much different than any other. The Gulf is tribal. They could care less about some poor Yeminis getting killed but if you mess with one person in their family, there’ll be hell to pay. The guy who died was very well connected. His grandfather was Ibn Saud’s (Saudi founder) personal doctor, his cousin was Dodi Al-Fayed the guy who was with Princess Diana. The family has billions of dollars and connections in Egypt, Saudi, and Turkey, the country who’s sovereignty was just violated by a foreign hit squad. You saw how fast that pastor in Turkey got released, this incident is so much bigger.

There are members of the royal family who want MBS dead. They don’t believe he is the legitimate next in line. Now he’s killed one of their own in Turkey, and his writings weren’t even that bad, more like “This week’s Raw was really good, but they gave Roman too much time”, “This week’s Smackdown was great, but I didn’t like the Orton segment” if Vince was MBS, you’d be dead now.


Flash - 10-14-2018 at 04:11 PM

So unrelated to the above, and not so much news as more odd encounters: but I was at a smaller comic con in Hamilton yesterday and there were a host of wrestlers there. It being a smaller con everyone was pretty accessible and you could generally talk to the guys there minus any lineups... Not "Meet WWF's Virgil" bad, but kinda spotty if that makes sense.

I had my 15 year old niece with me, so by way of kinda trying to include her I'd try and give her a fact about them and then segue into a quick chat:

*Jake Roberts
I think I mentioned something about how I had seen a Foley show in St. Catharines not so long ago and said I hadn't realized he toured Canada that much with a show of his own... I said some "dave" guy or maybe I had the name wrong but he had a lot of tattoo's and worked with Foley on his tours supposedly drove him around... Nope, don't know anyone with tattoos; lying. Oh okay.. I can't remember what else we touched on but he looked good.

*Brooklyn Brawler
I said something about how this guy (Brawler) was maybe the longer in ring guy with the WWE; that maybe only Fink had been there longer... He kept insisting he wasn't fired, he still gets royalties, and his leaving was a mutual parting of ways... He said Meltzer was full of shit and we should start a Brawler for HOF campaign. We kinda touched on Vince purging a lot of the old guys like him and Johnston and he just kept going back to Brawler for the HOF and how full of shit Meltzer was. I agreed with him and said that wrestling message boards are kind of a funny entity as we're all scrambling for every scrap of "news" about inside the WWE, but at the same time acknowledge that 90% of it is sourced from Meltzer and most of that is BS. Oh; and dude is crazy jacked now... like veins popping jacked.

*Cowboy Bob Orton
Fun guy; we talked a bit about his son; and how he's not often mentioned up there with some of the other all time champs despite how many title reigns he actually has; he was really friendly (bonus looks like that arm of his finally healed up) He kept making faces and gestures at my niece about me yammering on. He told her wrestling is fake cartoony stuff.. Really nice guy, and he even waved at my niece later when we were wandering around on another floor.

*RVD
Didn't get a chance to talk to him as he was on his phone in between people and generally had the steadiest table for visitors; from what I overheard listening to him chat with other fans he seems like the mellow "whatever man" guy that he is on TV. I also don't think RVD ages... like he must sleep in a big tupperware container or something at night as he looks the same now as he did 20 years ago on Raw.

*Kelly Kelly
Another one I didn't get a chance to chat with (probably for the best as there would like be a lot of creepy marriage proposals on my part, followed by crying) as she was away at lunch when we swung through the wrestlers tables, but I did see her in passing later and man is she tiny.

Overall I gotta say I was pretty impressed with everyone I met; no hesitation to shake hands, great with their time, and it was cool seeing talents that had entertained me as a kid.

Unrelated, but man; cons really are where some celebs go and die... David Faustino (really short, not taking a shot it just caught me off guard) was there, and so was the guy who played Eddie Munster (Butch Patrick) looks like a bit of a cartoon himself now... just very animated looking. Tom "Dukes of Hazards" Wopat was there and looks like an aged country and wester rock star... Ryan Hurst from SOA walked by me and dude's a big guy. Highlight for me was meeting Jim Shooter, former long time EIC at Marvel in the 80's- we talked for about a half hour and just the stuff he had with him like internal memos, art snippets, and letters from Stan Lee was cool to look at.


bopol - 10-14-2018 at 05:24 PM

Tom Wopat was pretty awesome in Django Unchained.


Paddlefoot - 10-15-2018 at 12:10 AM

For what it's worth Ryan Hurst will be in this season's Walking Dead as one of the new Big Bad's.

* Bryan Alvarez from the Observer said today that when asked privately a majority of the WWE roster responded they really don't want to go to Saudi Arabia while at the same time acknowledging that they don't have any say in the matter; WWE has apparently restored ads and articles for Crown Jewel to their website after they were briefly removed for a day or so, which indicates that they're fully committed to the upcoming show there

[Edited on 10/15/2018 by Paddlefoot]


OORick - 10-15-2018 at 02:35 AM

Mentions of the event have been restored. The show itself is definitely going to happen.

But there are no longer any mentions of Saudi Arabia.

WWE is taking this more seriously than I'd thought they would, and while they still might end up going to Riyadh, they have asked for a "hold" on an extra day at the arena in Manchester, England, where they are doing RAW and SD on November 5 and 6. Depending on how things go over the next few days, "Crown Jewel" could happen there on Sunday, November 4.



EDIT TO ADD: Something of which I was not aware.... there have been no public ticket sales for "Crown Jewel" in Saudi Arabia. It's an open secret that most tickets for the first event were given away (either literally for free to Friends of the Royals, for good seats; or for less than $5 to the public, for the cheap seats), because money means nothing to the royal family. But with them moving to a much smaller venue this time -- purportedly due to construction at the big stadium -- I guess they're not envisioning any reason to put any tickets up for sale to the public? I dunno, but it's another quirk of this story....



[Edited on 10-15-2018 by OORick]


Paddlefoot - 10-15-2018 at 02:53 AM

Next to the time that Kevin "Nailz" Kelly actually tried to kill him, I'm guessing this decision to get into business with the Arabs is something now that's keeping Vince awake at night. He really boxed WWE into a bad corner with this one - keep having shows there and get condemned by the world, or break the contract and get dragged into court for the rest of forever by the Saudis for reneging on the deal. Jerry McDevitt's more than smart enough to win the lawsuits but the Saudis have the money to be a major headache with repeat filings and other legalized harassment. And there's the barely-hidden intimidation angle too with the Arabs, with the Saudis basically saying this weekend that those too critical of them and their policies/actions will "meet their demise". Maybe that's just for show to make themselves look tough but given the personalities involved in the Kingdom at a minimum it opens up the flood of nightmare scenarios of a car-bomb going off outside of a WWE event someday. This has the potential to be the worst decision Vince and the other executives at WWE have ever made.


GodEatGod - 10-15-2018 at 03:45 AM

Tonight's Impact Bound for Glory PPV ended seemingly in controversy. Johnny Impact won the title with his finisher, but Austin Aries immediately popped up after the three count, flipped off the crowd and the announcers and basically threw a little hissy fit.

If it's a shoot, it's a dumb shoot because it'll kill Aries' career, not that I give a shit about Austin Aries.

If it's a work, it's a dumb work because it doesn't make him a bigger heel or work the smarts, it just makes Aries look like a childish ass. If your booking idea was last done on a big stage by Vince Russo, be fucking afraid.


OORick - 10-15-2018 at 04:09 AM

I did not, as the kids say, "have eyes" on the TNA PPV tonight.... but Bound for Glory took place at a weird time in the company's history.

About 2 weeks ago, they went up to Stamford, and apparently had a very positive meeting with WWE that they felt would help their overall standing.

Then, earlier this week, PopTV announced they were bumping Impact to 10pm (eastern) on Thursdays (previously, 8pm), effective immediately. Which can't be good, right?

I doubt I'm alone n trying to figure out what's happening at TNA. Also: not alone in trying to figure out why I should care, yet.


CVD39 - 10-15-2018 at 05:25 AM

The Saudi stuff was the main story on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver tonight. The WWE gets mentioned but besides the obligatory homoerotic joke, there wasn’t much anything other than showing footage and that the WWE was trying to shed light on how Saudi Arabia is changing. The rest of the story? Really chopping SA up.

Later on it mentions that the Crown Jewel PPV is still on (after noting that another big event, the Davos In The Desert Future Investment Initiative has already had big investors like Uber, CNBC, CNN, Viacom, Bloomberg and The NY Times pull out of the event). Oliver says that the situation is being monitored but we already knew that.

[Edited on 10-15-2018 by CVD39]


the goon - 10-15-2018 at 06:04 AM

I just watched fan-filmed footage of the Aries incident, and yeah...that was weird. Not to mention that it's a shitty outcome either way, because the only two scenarios here are either Aries was legit being a dick after the match or they're going for a lame Vince Russo "worked shoot" angle.

But hey, as a Johnny Impact/Morrison mark, good on him for winning the title tonight.


First 9 - 10-15-2018 at 01:05 PM

With how erratic Aries has been on Twitter this might be a mixture of both with hm being the one pushing for the stupid ending.


CCharger - 10-15-2018 at 02:43 PM

Aries is a vegan, MAGA hat wearing CrossFitter which I think makes him the worst man who ever lived.

In other news:

* Asuka's recent slump is due in part to Vince not being a fan of her broken English

* Meltzer is reporting a great deal of dissatisfaction and dissension in the NJPW lockerroom. A new creative direction has pissed off everyone. The recent move toward more American style storylines to appeal to American fans has pissed off the Japanese wrestlers. The push of gaijin wrestlers like Bullet Club and Jay White and Juice Robinson has also pissed off a lot of the Japanese mainstays. The non-Japanese wrestlers have gotten defensive about this and it has caused tension.


denverpunk - 10-15-2018 at 03:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger

* Asuka's recent slump is due in part to Vince not being a fan of her broken English




No idea if this is true, but if so, what in the actual fuck? She's Japanese! Did people not know that when they signed her?


Flash - 10-15-2018 at 04:23 PM

Agree that hiring a Japanese person and then being upset with them being too Japanese sounding is kinda dumb; but any chance maybe that this (diction lessons or whatever) might have been a condition of employment?

It would be hard to call Vince a racist or something like that on this though as he's always had a hard on for how words and people should sound; I mean didn't he make Schivonne (sp?) take diction lessons 30+ years ago too?

The shame is IMO it just sucks when you've got your most talent and diverse roster ever and your biggest focus is on making them sound, look, and largely perform the same... (never the same name though, too many people might be confused if there were two Shanes in a company).


Fandom - 10-15-2018 at 07:55 PM

Man if only wrestling had some sort of system in which the wrestlers who weren't good at talking had someone talk for them...


denverpunk - 10-15-2018 at 08:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fandom
Man if only wrestling had some sort of system in which the wrestlers who weren't good at talking had someone talk for them...


I was just thinking along those lines. There are plenty of ways to effectively book a terrific wrestler who doesn't necessarily know the home language well - it happens in Japan all the time...


CCharger - 10-15-2018 at 08:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fandom
Man if only wrestling had some sort of system in which the wrestlers who weren't good at talking had someone talk for them...

Yeah, but then you'd end up with Roman Reigns being a Paul Heyman guy. Who the FUCK wants to see that?


Count Zero - 10-16-2018 at 02:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Yeah, but then you'd end up with Roman Reigns being a Paul Heyman guy. Who the FUCK wants to see that?
... Okay, I'm not saying we actually SHOULD do this experiment, but... It would kind of be the "Uncheerable Object vs the Unbooable Force" scenario. Scientifically speaking, I wonder which one would win.


Paddlefoot - 10-16-2018 at 03:25 AM

* looks like Austin Aries antics from Impact's Bound For Glory PPV didn't go over too well because the company released him today


janerd75 - 10-16-2018 at 05:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Aries is a vegan, MAGA hat wearing CrossFitter which I think makes him the worst man who ever lived.




AND he's from Milwaukee too!

Also, I'm guessing he's retired now? Because who's gonna employ him after this nonsense?


CCharger - 10-16-2018 at 12:59 PM

Mark my words:

This is an elaborate work. Austin Aries will be back on Impact by Thanksgiving.


nOOb - 10-16-2018 at 02:37 PM

Aren't works, even elaborate ones, supposed to draw interest in the product? I have no desire to tune in to Impact ever to see Johnny Somethingorother's reaction to what could be fake unprofessional behavior (or for any reason). Of all the potential storylines that could ever exist, a feud consisting of "Will this wrestler sell for his opponent or will he be a douche and acknowledge this is all fake?" is at the very bottom of the list (though I am still a huge fan of Braun Strowman getting into feuds with people for hugging them too tight and putting them in coma's). And, hell, the only time a wrestler deciding to break kayfabe and do their own thing has ever kind of worked (or at least made sense) was when Brian Pillman instantly conceded his "Respect" strap match with Kevin Sullivan (because Pillman was a "Loose Cannon"), and that was still Pillman's last major scheduled thing with WCW before he was leaving the company. That just seemed like someone who wasn't getting any more appearances, had already had his run in WWE stall for being the wrong weight at the wrong time, and is probably conceding his future is with Ring of Honor.


CCharger - 10-16-2018 at 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Aren't works, even elaborate ones, supposed to draw interest in the product?

You're talking about Impact Wrestling on the internet right now where you otherwise wouldn't, so yes.


Cherokee Jack - 10-16-2018 at 04:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Aren't works, even elaborate ones, supposed to draw interest in the product?

You're talking about Impact Wrestling on the internet right now where you otherwise wouldn't, so yes.
If I’m no more likely to watch their product than I was before (maybe less), is it really working?

We all understand that wrestling is a work, but just like you don’t want Rick Grimes turning and winking at the camera during Walking Dead, wrestling should always be presenting itself within the realm of the show as being legitimate competition. Pulling some “that wasn’t part of the script!” nonsense is bullshit, because by saying that you’re beating your audience over the head with the fact that everything that happens is scripted, and so there’s no reason to get emotionally invested in anything. Suspension of disbelief doesn’t work if the program is blatantly reminding you that you’re having to suspend your disbelief.

Worked shoot angles can work somewhat if you’re careful about how you do it. Someone could “shoot” on Roman Reigns being Vince’s chosen one and coddled by the office, because within the world of the show one could absolutely make that case based on Roman getting unlimited title shots at Brock Lesnar despite constantly losing. Contrast that with John Cena showing up last year telling Roman he needs to learn to cut promos to be a top guy, then looking right at the camera with his goofy smirk and going “uh oh, I’m breaking the fourth wall!”

If this is a work, it’s a shitty Vince Russo-esque work that won’t lead to any sort of increase in actual business and if anything will continue to demonstrate to fans like myself who gave up on Impact long ago (probably going on at least five years that I’ve watched any of their stuff that wasn’t Broken Hardys-related) that nope, still not worth going back to. They can be as thrilled as they want that I’m writing a paragraph or two about it on an internet message board, but that all adds up to $0.00 in revenue.

And in the event that it’s not a work, this has to be Aries deciding he’s done with wrestling, no? At least on a national/televised level? WWE’s never taking him back, and if you’re ROH, trying to take that next step in building your company, would you trust him after pulling that shit in a PPV main event setting?


CCharger - 10-16-2018 at 04:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Aren't works, even elaborate ones, supposed to draw interest in the product?

You're talking about Impact Wrestling on the internet right now where you otherwise wouldn't, so yes.
If I’m no more likely to watch their product than I was before (maybe less), is it really working?

Yes, because even though you're not watching, a casual fan might pick up on it and tune it to see what all the buzz is about. Any publicity is good publicity in the wrestling business.


denverpunk - 10-16-2018 at 04:59 PM

If there's any wrestling trope, shoot or work, that I'm beyond sick of right now, it's the "Multi-time World Champion who acts like the company's screwing him" angle. It's old, it's predictable, it's really annoying, and it needs go away.


Paddlefoot - 10-16-2018 at 08:03 PM

* in an effort to show that they can still double-down on really bad mistakes today as much as they did when Dixie Carter was the boss, Impact is apparently interested in re-signing Alberto Del Rio - he was let go back around Wrestlemania this year when he no-showed an Impact event that was held in New Orleans that weekend


First 9 - 10-16-2018 at 08:13 PM

In their defense, Pop TV is taking them off prime time and pushing them into late night so Impact is trying to quickly bump their ratings to make themselves look more valuable to other networks.There also trying to get Jericho for a few appearances, even if it's just to promote his cruise.

But this is the company that's way past just giving the benefit of doubt so TNA is going to do what they do I guess.


DevilSoprano - 10-16-2018 at 09:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
If I’m no more likely to watch their product than I was before (maybe less), is it really working?



But it's not like you were going to watch Impact if this didn't happen either. No one is going to stop watching Impact because this happened and if they even get 5 extra eyeballs on the next show, that's a positive to them.


GodEatGod - 10-16-2018 at 11:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
quote:
Originally posted by Cherokee Jack
If I’m no more likely to watch their product than I was before (maybe less), is it really working?



But it's not like you were going to watch Impact if this didn't happen either. No one is going to stop watching Impact because this happened and if they even get 5 extra eyeballs on the next show, that's a positive to them.


The problem with doing that with this kind of stuff is that you also lose people who don't want to deal with Russo shit. That's the problem with Russo shit. It gets attention, but it also drives people off and sometimes the trade-off goes the wrong way.


Paddlefoot - 10-17-2018 at 01:24 AM

* Charlotte Flair is getting sued for $5 million by her ex-husband Riki Paul Johnson (note - this guy is not Bram from TNA) for defamation after writing in her autobiography that he couldn't perform sexually and was physically abusive to her


the goon - 10-17-2018 at 01:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* Charlotte Flair is getting sued for $5 million by her ex-husband Riki Paul Johnson (note - this guy is not Bram from TNA) for defamation after writing in her autobiography that he couldn't perform sexually and was physically abusive to her


Wait, so Charlotte has already been divorced twice? She really is following in Ric's footsteps!


Flash - 10-17-2018 at 03:10 AM

I suck at uploading pics and all that; but Edge did something pretty awesome today... In case you missed it he was one of a handful of celebs amongst the thousands who shamed Piers Morgan for taking shots at Daniel 007 Craig for carrying his new born daughter around in a papoose, basically calling him an emasculated bond.

Edge, being awesome and knowing that being a good dad or human being plays more into measuring one's masculinity than what you carry your kid around in (well, maybe not an empty beer case... that might say something entirely different) sent out a pic of him playing dress up with his girls where he was done up in full Elsa wear.

Cool stuff, and kudos to Edge for doing what it takes to put a smile on his kids face and not caring what the world thinks about it.

Still waiting on the Christian as Anya pick though.....


Paddlefoot - 10-17-2018 at 03:17 AM

Piers Morgan is a special kind of asshole who sets off a wave of hate directed at himself every time he opens his mouth.

quote:
Originally posted by the goon
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* Charlotte Flair is getting sued for $5 million by her ex-husband Riki Paul Johnson (note - this guy is not Bram from TNA) for defamation after writing in her autobiography that he couldn't perform sexually and was physically abusive to her


Wait, so Charlotte has already been divorced twice? She really is following in Ric's footsteps!


Actually, as co-author of the book Ric Flair has been included in the lawsuit, as has WWE for marketing/co-publishing it. I think this guy is the same one who got arrested back in 2008 with Ashley and Ric when they got in a drunk brawl with each other out in public one night. She married him in 2010 then divorced in 2011 and she had a bunch of domestic abuse reports filed against him with the local police.



[Edited on 10/17/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 10-17-2018 at 04:47 PM

* Kevin Owens had double knee surgery recently and will be off TV and out of the ring until the Royal Rumble at the earliest and more likely Wrestlemania.

* David Bixenspan is reporting that the WWE's deal with Saudi Arabia is a ten year deal worth $20 to $50 million PER SHOW

[Edited on 10-17-2018 by CCharger]


Flash - 10-18-2018 at 05:14 AM

I know a fresh start coming back from injury is generally a good reset and push for a guy, but Owens is so awesome that I just think him wheeling around and being all bitchy at everyone would be gold... Especially where he could be close to coming back and could fake being injured for a while but still use a wheel chair, using handicap parking spots, demanding some kind of accommodations for pins or matches... Just basically being a shit.


DKBroiler - 10-18-2018 at 03:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Flash
I know a fresh start coming back from injury is generally a good reset and push for a guy, but Owens is so awesome that I just think him wheeling around and being all bitchy at everyone would be gold... Especially where he could be close to coming back and could fake being injured for a while but still use a wheel chair, using handicap parking spots, demanding some kind of accommodations for pins or matches... Just basically being a shit.


While that would be great ... Owens is comedy gold afterall ... I really want him to take a few months off the road and trim down. The guy is absolutely amazing in every way except his health. If he were to go from near 300 down to 240 or so he would potentially extend his career another decade and his life an extra 30 years.

As someone who went from 304 to 219 in 1 year and then took up weightlifting to now be a much healthier 240, it can totally be done. Since his entire job is built around his body he would have significantly more time and resources to do this.


anglefan85 - 10-18-2018 at 03:54 PM

85 lb weight loss in a year? That is damn impressive, congratulations.

[Edited on 10-18-2018 by anglefan85]


janerd75 - 10-18-2018 at 04:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
As someone who went from 304 to 219 in 1 year...



I'm assuming that's because you finally learned how to bathe yourself? It makes sense considering where you're from.


Paddlefoot - 10-18-2018 at 09:55 PM

* Wall Street analyst estimates that if WWE pulled out of the deal with Saudi Arabia for holding shows there, and cancelled Crown Jewel or moved it to another country, the hit would be from $12 to 16 million to their 2019 revenues:

https://deadline.com/2018/10/wwe-saudi-arabia-crown-jewel-controversy-jamal-khashoggi-1202484980/

So is there any legit reason not to cancel the show right now given that losing that amount of money is chicken feed to a company as large as WWE? And that they'd probably make back double that loss in the good will alone that they'd earn from doing the right thing by cancelling? Seriously, this is not that hard for these business types to figure out so why the fuck is WWE hesitating on a cancellation or, even worse, opting to double-down in defiance of the criticism that's rightly been aimed at them for getting into business with the Saudi murder-regime? Cancel this show in that hideous fucking country, Vince!

[Edited on 10/18/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CamstunPWG187 - 10-18-2018 at 10:07 PM

I went from 320 to 205 in 2009.

205 Live Cam.


CCharger - 10-18-2018 at 10:35 PM

I've lost 50 lbs. since March. I'm hoping to lose another 10 after I get circumcised .


Paddlefoot - 10-18-2018 at 11:40 PM

Pretty sure that former quality OOster Dr. Boz, another ex-fatty who kept boasting of how proud he was at becoming bulimic, kept losing weight until he just faded away altogether. I miss that kid.


SpiNNeR72 - 10-19-2018 at 07:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I've lost 50 lbs. since March. I'm hoping to lose another 10 after I get circumcised .


A vasectomy is a far better way to lose a few pounds. Trust me


CVD39 - 10-19-2018 at 11:59 AM

The more I’m reading about this Saudi thing...... fuck that/them. I’m out. Thinking about quitting the Network, too.


thestoryofmikeb - 10-19-2018 at 12:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
I've lost 50 lbs. since March. I'm hoping to lose another 10 after I get circumcised .


Hmmmm
Cutting off the most sensitive part if your penis is your choice and all... but


CCharger - 10-19-2018 at 03:22 PM


Paddlefoot - 10-19-2018 at 03:24 PM

* talk today is that FOX is pushing WWE to take the "sports" part of sports entertainment much more seriously for Smackdown when the program switches TV networks next year, as they apparently want to see more wrestling and less of the comedy bits & backstage antics on the broadcasts; no mention yet if they are pushing for the same thing to happen on RAW as well

[Edited on 10/19/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CCharger - 10-19-2018 at 03:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* talk today is that FOX is pushing WWE to take the "sports" part of sports entertainment much more seriously for Smackdown when the program switches TV networks next year, as they apparently want to see more wrestling and less of the comedy bits & backstage antics on the broadcasts; no mention yet if they are pushing for the same thing to happen on RAW as well

[Edited on 10/19/2018 by Paddlefoot]

It wasn't long ago that the WWE admitted on a shareholder conference call that they were "shocked" that actual wrestling was viewed more than other content on the Network.

"Let's see...do I want to watch Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard I Quit match or Camp WWE?"


thestoryofmikeb - 10-19-2018 at 04:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger



I blame the post surgery drugs. Sorry bout that


CCharger - 10-19-2018 at 04:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by thestoryofmikeb

I blame the post surgery drugs. Sorry bout that


SpiNNeR72 - 10-20-2018 at 08:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* talk today is that FOX is pushing WWE to take the "sports" part of sports entertainment much more seriously for Smackdown when the program switches TV networks next year, as they apparently want to see more wrestling and less of the comedy bits & backstage antics on the broadcasts; no mention yet if they are pushing for the same thing to happen on RAW as well

[Edited on 10/19/2018 by Paddlefoot]

It wasn't long ago that the WWE admitted on a shareholder conference call that they were "shocked" that actual wrestling was viewed more than other content on the Network.

"Let's see...do I want to watch Magnum TA vs. Tully Blanchard I Quit match or Camp WWE?"


I think this is what HHH gets that sets him apart from Vince and probably most of the McMahons. The rabid loyal fans want wrestling. Casuals will come and go as personalities like Roack and Austin come and go. Lets hope he continues to build influence..


nOOb - 10-21-2018 at 01:06 PM

Pretty excited here because I get to contribute some rumor-newz for the first time.

-Daniel Cormier, he of the "Brock Lesnar pushed me after a fight to set one up but likely won't be un-roided enough to fight me before I retire" Cormiers, is apparently auditioning for a spot with WWE on the commentary team. The audition, and, let's face it, likely hire, was supposed to take place earlier this month but then the UFC needed to rush to save its next Madison Square Garden event from being headlined by a new Women's weight class title fight between two fighters no one has ever heard of, so he's got a title defense the first week of November. After that, he's got his tryout, at which point in time you can just safely assume Brock will show up more to attempt to cross-promote a fight with an announcer.

It's odd news. I mean, they've done semi-retired wrestlers on commentary, and there was that one time CM Punk was an announcer while he was injured, but having a guy on the announce team who you could make the case is legitimately tougher than most of the active roster is just weird.


Paddlefoot - 10-21-2018 at 07:44 PM

Bad security breach at the Performance Centre yesterday


SpiNNeR72 - 10-22-2018 at 07:42 AM

So Reigns has missed the weekends live shows, which wouldn't normall be a huge thing, but one of those was the TLC replacement supershow in Boston.


CCharger - 10-22-2018 at 03:01 PM

* Jim Ross, Chris Jericho, and the Young Bucks are apparently working together, along with some unnamed billionaire, to start up a new wrestling promotion in North America.

* Roman Reign will remain champion to and through Wrestlemania although no decision on who he will be beating has been made.


SpiNNeR72 - 10-22-2018 at 03:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Jim Ross, Chris Jericho, and the Young Bucks are apparently working together, along with some unnamed billionaire, to start up a new wrestling promotion in North America.


This was debunked quite quickly by all concerned.

https://twitter.com/IAmJericho/status/1053444644812546048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1053444644812546048&

[Edited on 10-22-2018 by SpiNNeR72]


CCharger - 10-22-2018 at 03:45 PM

Wow. Thanks. Hadn't seen that.

This was reported on a couple of the more reputable dirt sheets (is that an oxymoron?). SEScoops and ProWrestling.net both had detailed reports about it.

Maybe Jericho is just bullshitting?


Gobshite - 10-22-2018 at 08:06 PM

Robbie Fox at Barstool Sports is claiming/reporting that Reigns missed the weekend shows as he’s injured; and may be forced to miss crown Jewel.

He’s also claiming that Cena and Bryan are currently “refusing” to work the show.

With Saudi Arabia fucking about with admitting what actually happened the the now murdered reporter; it wouldn’t surprise me if in the coming days advertisers and TV networks start leaning on them to pull out, which I’m sure will piss Vince off no end.


First 9 - 10-22-2018 at 09:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger

Maybe Jericho is just bullshitting?


According to Alvarez it was just a guy asking around but nothing close to concrete.


coxito - 10-23-2018 at 12:40 AM

[Edited on 10-23-2018 by coxito]


CamstunPWG187 - 10-24-2018 at 04:33 PM

*It's being reported that Vince is "gung-ho" on putting the title back on Bork enroute to a UFC/WWE Champion clash with Cormier. Vince is said to be very optimistic about the possibility of Lesnar beating Cormier, reportedly saying "Cormier looks soft" after seeing his interviews and highlights.

Vince apparently is even encouraging Lesnar to use PED's to help ensure a victory, with any sort of drug test failure being seen as something that will eventually be forgotten, whereas he can push Lesnar on-screen as the man who beat the UFC Heavyweight Champion while holding the top belt in the company forever, knowing that a rematch between he two positions in either company will be unlikely to take place ever again.


CCharger - 10-24-2018 at 04:37 PM

* Only Vince, StepHHH, Dean, Seth, and the Usos were informed of Roman's diagnosis prior to his show opening promo. The commentary team's reaction were legit as they learned along with the rest of us.

* The shocking news has thrown creative decisions out of whack and there have been multiple creative meetings to decide how to move forward without Roman. Reports are that "everything is on the table" in terms of who to push and what match ups at the major shows.

ETA: Rumors are buzzing that WWE will announce that it is moving Crown Jewel from Saudi Arabia to a US venue - possibly somewhere in the Greater New York area.

[Edited on 10-24-2018 by CCharger]


Paddlefoot - 10-24-2018 at 11:01 PM

* Lana's Instagram account was hacked and used for selling bogus credit cards and other fake promotional items; unfortunately no quality porn featuring her was included

* in a sign that the loss of Roman Reigns and the refusal of John Cena and Daniel Bryan to attend Crown Jewel if it goes ahead in Saudi Arabia, WWE could be panicking enough to let Hulk Hogan out of the doghouse earlier than expected; he's been making social media comments that he'd be glad to attend the event and he's shown no indication in any of his messages that he's bothered at all by recent Saudi behaviour; loathe him or merely hate him, Hogan probably still carries enough weight in the industry, unfortunately, that a crowd in Saudi Arabia would probably pop more for him than they would Reigns, Cena, and Bryan put together


phansett - 10-24-2018 at 11:20 PM

Rumor...or opinion, more accurately: Becky’s twitter game is pretty strong. Has been for a while, but she and Rhea Ripley are getting a nice tit-for-tat going.

[Edited on 10-24-2018 by phansett]


Paddlefoot - 10-24-2018 at 11:33 PM

Yeah, that was a good exchange they had. The problem is that Ripley should have been a natural ally for Dark Becky instead of a new foe. Before the attack happened a couple of days ago Ripley tweeted "boring" during Charlotte's talk. Then she was kind of laughing in the background when Becky attacked. This is the dynamic they should have played up instead, to the point where they could have brought Ripley up and used her as a Tyson Tomko-like hammer to aid and abet Becky's heelishness. I guess they want to push the "Badass Becky goes it alone" as much as they can in order to grab that Stone Cold vibe but I think if she ended up with a stable of heels around her instead as time passes it would be a lot more fun.

[Edited on 10/24/2018 by Paddlefoot]


CamstunPWG187 - 10-25-2018 at 11:14 AM

A stadium of Saudis popping for a man who embodies America and has the theme music to go with it would be quite ironic


First 9 - 10-25-2018 at 01:20 PM

Crown Jewel will go on and WWE's corporate response is saying they have a dedicated fanbase over in SA they can't let down and that other companies are doing business there so they're just following their lead.


The Greek - 10-25-2018 at 01:21 PM

Just heard on Busted Open (Sirius XM broadcast) that WWE is going ahead with the show in Saudi Arabia......


nOOb - 10-25-2018 at 03:10 PM

Last time I couldn’t make it through match one of the half house show/half propaganda event, and kinda felt a bit irritated I got suckered into dishing out an additional $9.99 for it. They might have accidentally fallen into a main event with actual story implications this time, but the glorified house show and propaganda parts aren’t worth money.


Paddlefoot - 10-25-2018 at 04:56 PM

It sucks that they're persisting in going, and probably going to double-down on the "progress" propaganda. What will be worse is if/when they continue with the rest of the shows over there. Even if we grant WWE some kind of a waiver that what happened with Kashoggi took them by surprise and it was "too late" to cancel Crown Jewel, they'll deserve no such break if the go ahead with the shows next year and the years after that like everything is just A-OK. And even giving them that much of a break is debatable in itself because if other companies could cancel deals with the Saudis after what they did in Istanbul then WWE could to, especially when their loss if Crown Jewel had been cancelled would only have been a paltry (for a company the size of WWE) $12 to 16 million.

Goddamn glad right now though that I watch all my WWE via illegal streaming and that I'm not giving them any of my money on the Network.


CCharger - 10-25-2018 at 05:30 PM

On today's Quarter 3 earnings call with shareholders, Vince declined to answer a question about Crown Jewel, saying that "it's a sensitive subject" and referring people to their official statement.

So, in addition to being greedy and possibly morally corrupt, Vince is a coward too.


Cherokee Jack - 10-25-2018 at 06:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
What will be worse is if/when they continue with the rest of the shows over there. Even if we grant WWE some kind of a waiver that what happened with Kashoggi took them by surprise and it was "too late" to cancel Crown Jewel, they'll deserve no such break if the go ahead with the shows next year and the years after that like everything is just A-OK.
This is the big one for me. It’s shitty that they’re still going, but I can grant that I understand why they are. But what will be more important is how they handle it at the show and going forward. They have to realize that playing those “look how awesome and progressive and with the times Saudi Arabia is now!” videos is a terrible idea and should avoid anything of the sort. And after this show, HHH or Vince or whoever needs to get with whoever heads up this deal on SA’s end and tell them that at the very least this deal needs to be put on pause for a while.

Logistically they may have felt like their hands were tied with the promotion and booking and everything for this show having already been in full swing. After this show that is not an issue.


CVD39 - 10-25-2018 at 06:31 PM

Yeah, I’m not watching anything from SA going forward and I’m really tempted to just say fuck it and quit watching again. My 3 month network pass is up next week and I won’t re-up for awhile if at all.


CCharger - 10-25-2018 at 07:04 PM

Meltzer on Twitter:

"They survived Benoit, so they learned people get mad and come back and that's not an issue with their decision making because that's what history has shown."

Can't agree with Meltzer more. The hardcore WWE fans will get mad and stomp their feet and say they won't watch anymore, but by March they will have renewed their Network subscription and started getting excited about the HHH-Shawn Michaels-Taker-Rock Fatal Fourway match at Wrestlemania.

[Edited on 10-25-2018 by CCharger]


TownOfDalem - 10-25-2018 at 07:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
And even giving them that much of a break is debatable in itself because if other companies could cancel deals with the Saudis after what they did in Istanbul then WWE could to, especially when their loss if Crown Jewel had been cancelled would only have been a paltry (for a company the size of WWE) $12 to 16 million.


Isn't the loss more like $400 million over ten years? I'm all for anyone who decides to cancel the network or boycott or whatever in response to this decision, but that is a serious amount of cash for WWE.

Selfishly I love watching the network too much to cancel, but I probably won't watch the show, which I believe will be the first "ppv" I've missed since the network launched.

The leftist in me feels like I should be like fuck WWE and screw Saudi Arabia, but I just can't get there. How are we (in this case meaning the USA/any world power) supposed to treat countries that treat their citizens terribly? Dealing with Saudi and China makes me feel dirty, but it's not like our isolation policies/financial pressure have really helped the average person in North Korea or Cuba. We've tried wars or more subtle coups to disastrous results. Aren't those three the only options? Deal with the countries, isolate/punish the countries, or try to get new leadership in the countries through direct or covert means. I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say what option four is and I don't really like any of the other three options. Foreign policy is really hard.


First 9 - 10-25-2018 at 07:46 PM

There's nothing wrong with WWE selling their product to whoever buys it, but it is pretty shitty to take money to spread propaganda and sing the praises of human scum. Foreign policy is tricky but a private corporation selling itself out to polish a turd is an easy fuck up to call out.

Also, as somebody who lives in a country that's been on the wrong end of foreign intervention, sometimes it's not about how hard it is to fix a country with a shitty government but the fact that the intervening players don't really give a shit about the people and are just looking to serve their agenda.


Laruecifer - 10-25-2018 at 08:16 PM

Can't they just continue to have these shows, but not promote them so intensely? I'd just make them another house show. I'm not sure why the are special shows anyway, I doubt it was bringing in many new subscribers to the network.


bopol - 10-25-2018 at 11:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Meltzer on Twitter:

"They survived Benoit, so they learned people get mad and come back and that's not an issue with their decision making because that's what history has shown."

Can't agree with Meltzer more. The hardcore WWE fans will get mad and stomp their feet and say they won't watch anymore, but by March they will have renewed their Network subscription and started getting excited about the HHH-Shawn Michaels-Taker-Rock Fatal Fourway match at Wrestlemania.

[Edited on 10-25-2018 by CCharger]


Except it isn't true. I didn't come back (it was as much Guerrero as Benoit) and it was really that it took all the fun out of it for me. I've gone towards Chikara for a while and now more NJPW. I've probably haven't watched an hour of WWE programming in the last 5 years, but I've probably logged hundreds of hours on wrestling via YouTube and other sources.


Paddlefoot - 10-25-2018 at 11:29 PM

* in a new interview Sasha Banks said the reason for her time off was to deal with some significant concussion issues

* THE CHAMP Becky Lynch devastated almost the entire Smackdown women's division today with a barrage of taunts and insults on social media. Great stuff, and no profanity required at all:

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2018/10/25/18025132/becky-lynch-verbally-punking-every-woman-smackdown-roster-wwe

Take that ho's and bitches, as they would have said back in the Attitude days.


CVD39 - 10-26-2018 at 12:08 AM

quote:
Originally posted by bopol
quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Meltzer on Twitter:

"They survived Benoit, so they learned people get mad and come back and that's not an issue with their decision making because that's what history has shown."

Can't agree with Meltzer more. The hardcore WWE fans will get mad and stomp their feet and say they won't watch anymore, but by March they will have renewed their Network subscription and started getting excited about the HHH-Shawn Michaels-Taker-Rock Fatal Fourway match at Wrestlemania.

[Edited on 10-25-2018 by CCharger]


Except it isn't true. I didn't come back (it was as much Guerrero as Benoit) and it was really that it took all the fun out of it for me. I've gone towards Chikara for a while and now more NJPW. I've probably haven't watched an hour of WWE programming in the last 5 years, but I've probably logged hundreds of hours on wrestling via YouTube and other sources.


Yeah, I got a really bad taste in my mouth from the Benoit thing and all of the CTE stuff before we knew what we’re learning now. The early deaths and rampant drug abuse (pills mostly) that’s putting these guys away so soon. I eventually said fuck it and quit watching entirely (although I followed along here for newz) until after WM in 2017. I know people like me and bopol are few and far between but we’re out there. And this Saudi thing is pushing me in that direction again. I’m at least missing the PPV.

[Edited on 10-26-2018 by CVD39]


Count Zero - 10-26-2018 at 02:20 AM

I, too, have watched Very Little WWE Lately, but... People like us, we are the outliers. If you're part of the WWE Universe, being a "WWE Fan" is part of your psychological-identity. People are very hesitant to change what-they-think-they-are, and will rationalize (via olympic-level mental gymnastics) a lot of shit to feel mentally safe & secure. And to keep shelling out 9.99 shekels per month to identify in the manner they are accustomed (and perhaps beholden?) to.


OORick - 10-26-2018 at 04:24 AM

I really don't get the equivocation of the Benoit thing and this Saudi thing... Benoit did a shitty thing, and WWE immediately did its best to walk swiftly away and make it clear, "Hey, not our problem" (even if drug abuse and brain injuries by Benoit occurred while doing pro wrestling, some percentage of them even under WWE's watch)... the Saudis have done a boatlad of shitty things -- which have curiously gotten shittier in the 6 months since the first Saudi show and MSB PR Campaign Tour of the US, which must now be dismissed as fiction -- and WWE is making it clear, "You know what, we know it's a problem, but we're doing it anyway."

All that said: Meltzer (and the cynics in all of us) still end up being right that it probably won't matter in 6 months.... it's just that the mechanics of WHY it won't matter are quite different.

Very few people wanted WWE's head on a platter because Benoit did a double-murder-suicide. The usual suspects played it up as another chapter in the narrative about how wrestling is a dirty business where people die young and for the wrong reasons, but as far as people SPECIFICALLY getting pissed at WWE (which by this point had a real wellness policy and was enforcing it), I think way more people I saw/heard were pissed about WWE "scrubbing" Benoit from history than were pissed that they might somehow have been complicit in 3 deaths. And yeah, so all that seemed to pass without a serious threat to WWE's bottom line: they only had to endure a brief onslaught of bad press due to the fact they were/are the de facto proxy for All Of Pro Wrestling As Far As 95% Of The World Is Concerned.

With regard to Crown Jewel? This is no proxy fight, or anything else where WWE gets a free pass for being the victim of circumstance.... they know this is problematic, and have made the conscious decision to lean into it, because the past 2 years have taught us that the news cycle is no longer capable of staying focused on any one bit of wrong-doing long enough for there to be any consequences. So go to Riyadh, do your show, cash your $20 million check, and either (1) MBS and the Saudis will be on Super Duper Double Secret Probation Good Behavior for a while or (2) Something even shittier happens to overshadow the Saudi Royal Family ordering a US-based journalist to be hacked to bits with a bone saw.

Whichever it is, the result is the same: the world at large (and wrestling fans) forget about some rando event WWE did in Saudi Arabia in the fall of 2018. THAT is what WWE is banking on here.

Because their published excuses (in today's press release, which was in no way amended or amplified in real-time interviews/conference calls when people had access to Vince and other WWE muckity-mucks, who all just said "It's complicated, and we aren't saying anything that we didn't already say in the press release") are not good. There's only two of them: (1) "We cannot disappoint our loyal Saudi Arabian fans by cancelling or postponing the show at this late date" (bullshit, tickets aren't even on sale yet)... and (2) "All our revenue guidance for this year was predicated on fulfilling our obligations to hold 2 events in Saudi Arabia in fiscal 2018" (or, in other words, "We'll fall short of revenue forecasts if we don't take the dirrty dirrty money, and since we made all you sons of bitches rich as the stock tripled in price, just shut your mouths and let us do this").

I'm not a fan of any of this, and luckily, I was already scheduled to be having an "off-the-grid weekend" with friends, so watching Crown Jewel live was never gonna happen for me. Now, I can pretend that it's in protest or something, because I'm a better human being than most!

Also, I fully expect that if I am compelled to watch an archived version of the show at some point the following week, WWE will be wise enough to have a grand total of ZERO of the inexcusably hypocritical Saudi PR bits still included.... in fact, the version of Crown Jewel to is available within Saudi Arabia can keep those, but they shouldn't leave its borders, not even on the live version. Fuck that noise.

John Cena was already said to be out. Now Daniel Bryan is apparently trying to get out, too. Hulk Hogan started telling people on Tuesday that he's looking forward to heading to Saudi Arabia.

Oy. So the way to fix your PR problem with going and running a show for a country that has an even bigger PR problem is to book a substitute whose own PR problems deserve their own ZIP Code?

I don't even.....

[Edited on 10-26-2018 by OORick]


Paddlefoot - 10-26-2018 at 06:49 AM

* some talk is circulating about re-uniting Bray Wyatt and Luke Harper with a possibility they'll be some kind of back-up for Braun Strowman to replace McIntyre & Ziggler as Braun's new pack o'goons

* Samoa Joe is off the shelf again with an undisclosed injury; he's not cleared to wrestle right now and has been pulled from upcoming house shows, and he also won't be appearing at Crown Jewel next month

* also, obligatory:



[Edited on 10/26/2018 by Paddlefoot]


First 9 - 10-26-2018 at 12:11 PM

Samoa Joe is starting to feel like the new Edge as the main event guy who's most often on the shelf.


TownOfDalem - 10-26-2018 at 01:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bopol
Except it isn't true. I didn't come back (it was as much Guerrero as Benoit) and it was really that it took all the fun out of it for me. I've gone towards Chikara for a while and now more NJPW. I've probably haven't watched an hour of WWE programming in the last 5 years, but I've probably logged hundreds of hours on wrestling via YouTube and other sources.


I'm not trying to call you out or anything, just actually curious: how is watching something like NJPW better then WWE from a safety of the wrestlers perspective? Unless I'm falsely assuming based on your comment that it's about safety. WWE has made gigantic strides in getting in-ring action to be as safe as possible. NJPW still has a big focus on moves where the impact is on the upper neck and head of the wrestlers. I've slowly been getting into NJPW because they have great talent, but that part of it has made me morally hesitant/uncomfortable while watching.


bigfatgoalie - 10-26-2018 at 01:05 PM

Joe hurt again? Given that mainstay Ziggler has muted pushes due to injury concerns, I imagine this is a reason why Joe isn’t likely to get a major title win.


First 9 - 10-26-2018 at 01:37 PM

It's impressive how it's always after WWE has done a major program with him. Last year he was injured after his program with Brock done, then after the Reigns, and now after the Styles feud is more than finished.

Probably why is he still a top 10 guy.


bopol - 10-26-2018 at 02:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TownOfDalem
quote:
Originally posted by bopol
Except it isn't true. I didn't come back (it was as much Guerrero as Benoit) and it was really that it took all the fun out of it for me. I've gone towards Chikara for a while and now more NJPW. I've probably haven't watched an hour of WWE programming in the last 5 years, but I've probably logged hundreds of hours on wrestling via YouTube and other sources.


I'm not trying to call you out or anything, just actually curious: how is watching something like NJPW better then WWE from a safety of the wrestlers perspective? Unless I'm falsely assuming based on your comment that it's about safety. WWE has made gigantic strides in getting in-ring action to be as safe as possible. NJPW still has a big focus on moves where the impact is on the upper neck and head of the wrestlers. I've slowly been getting into NJPW because they have great talent, but that part of it has made me morally hesitant/uncomfortable while watching.


I didn't quit watching WWE because it wasn't safe, but more that it wasn't fun anymore. Wrestling has always been escapism for me. When Benoit murdered his kid, that really upset me (not so much his wife or himself for that matter, but his kid). I hung in there until Eddie Guerrero died and, at that point, all the fun was out of it for me and I stopped watching.

When I have tuned in to WWE now, I quickly discover I haven't missed much as I don't really get into the characters or the in-ring product. Chikara had better storylines, but their quality has dropped off lately. NJPW is my favorite because the better storylines and I've been a Kenny Omega fan for a decade.

So, it isn't because of some sort of anger towards the WWE that I stopped watching, but more a disappointment and then a realization that I don't miss it and can find my wrestling fix elsewhere. My point is that Meltzer is wrong, fans will go away and not come back.


TownOfDalem - 10-26-2018 at 02:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bopol
I didn't quit watching WWE because it wasn't safe, but more that it wasn't fun anymore. Wrestling has always been escapism for me. When Benoit murdered his kid, that really upset me (not so much his wife or himself for that matter, but his kid). I hung in there until Eddie Guerrero died and, at that point, all the fun was out of it for me and I stopped watching.

When I have tuned in to WWE now, I quickly discover I haven't missed much as I don't really get into the characters or the in-ring product. Chikara had better storylines, but their quality has dropped off lately. NJPW is my favorite because the better storylines and I've been a Kenny Omega fan for a decade.

So, it isn't because of some sort of anger towards the WWE that I stopped watching, but more a disappointment and then a realization that I don't miss it and can find my wrestling fix elsewhere. My point is that Meltzer is wrong, fans will go away and not come back.


I get what you mean now. Thanks.


G-Spot - 10-26-2018 at 06:58 PM

I think instead of comparing the Saudi thing to Benoit, it should be changed to what happened with Owen Hart, where WWE was complicit.

...and it's the same thing then...people were outraged, but came back.


GodEatGod - 10-26-2018 at 10:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bopol

I didn't quit watching WWE because it wasn't safe, but more that it wasn't fun anymore. Wrestling has always been escapism for me. When Benoit murdered his kid, that really upset me (not so much his wife or himself for that matter, but his kid). I hung in there until Eddie Guerrero died and, at that point, all the fun was out of it for me and I stopped watching.



Eddie Guerrero died in the year before the Benoit incident. Just saying. I took a break myself after Eddie died and didn't return until...2008/9? Whenever CM Punk and Jeff Hardy were feuding on Smackdown and I wanted to see it.

I think there's a significant portion of wrestling fans that went away when WCW died that never shifted to WWE after the buyout.

Personally, I enjoy WWE as it exists now, but it's no skin off my nose if somebody else doesn't.


bopol - 10-26-2018 at 11:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
quote:
Originally posted by bopol

I didn't quit watching WWE because it wasn't safe, but more that it wasn't fun anymore. Wrestling has always been escapism for me. When Benoit murdered his kid, that really upset me (not so much his wife or himself for that matter, but his kid). I hung in there until Eddie Guerrero died and, at that point, all the fun was out of it for me and I stopped watching.



Eddie Guerrero died in the year before the Benoit incident. Just saying. I took a break myself after Eddie died and didn't return until...2008/9? Whenever CM Punk and Jeff Hardy were feuding on Smackdown and I wanted to see it.

I think there's a significant portion of wrestling fans that went away when WCW died that never shifted to WWE after the buyout.

Personally, I enjoy WWE as it exists now, but it's no skin off my nose if somebody else doesn't.


You're right, I'm old and forgetful. Get off my lawn dammit. But the Guerrero thing did take a lot of fun out of it for me. Benoit made it much worse. I didn't leave because of some moral cause but because it made me sad.


Flash - 10-27-2018 at 07:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
On today's Quarter 3 earnings call with shareholders, Vince declined to answer a question about Crown Jewel, saying that "it's a sensitive subject" and referring people to their official statement.

So, in addition to being greedy and possibly morally corrupt, Vince is a coward too.


Greedy and morally corrupt, more than likely... The coward part I don't agree with..

I think he's just painted himself/been painted into a no win situation so speaking up beyond their statement has the ability to tip them one way or another... I wrote up a lengthy bit several pages back about what happened to the Saudi and Canadian relationship over a TWEET... So I could see Vince not wanting to say something that could quite literally put him and his people in danger right before they go over there. On the flip side if he's too passive in his response then it's just more fuel for the fire for those that would condemn the WWE for still going over there.

I'll use Canada again as a business example as we have an arms deal with them that naturally with them getting the headlines that they are getting calls into question why a peace keeping country like Canada is selling arms to the Saudi's and about how we should just cancel it... With an election a year away this is getting lots of traction from our Conservative ranks as they are floundering to land any blow against our current ruling Liberal Party that they can... This has resulted in our PM Trudeau to kind come clean about how loaded this deal is; that there are billion dollar(s) penalties for cancelling the deal and other equally severe penalties for even violating NDA's around it... Yeah that might be him trying to get out of having to own up to why we signed the deal (not sure if it was his gov't or the last), but from all we know about the Saudi's way of doing business it's not surprising it's true.

So long story short... Yeah, shame on Vince for getting into bed with some bad people either knowingly, or naively believing them without doing his due diligence, but this might just be a mess where the WWE ducking and covering to ride out the storm might be their best option.

Unrelated to your post...

You know one thing I don't think the WWE gets enough credit for is how far they've come in just even the last few years... I mean if you look at half the stuff that's in place now and that benefits the talent that's quite a large jump in the past 11 years since Benoit. Yeah some of it was PR related, but credit where it's due they've gone further than what they probably needed to... That's not even taking into account all the charity work they do as a company, and their talent does individually as well.


GodEatGod - 10-28-2018 at 04:16 PM

According to a few people on Twitter, during tapings this week, WWE security were passing out signs. Those signs said WE WANT WOMEN'S TAG CHAMPIONSHIPS. So, I'd expect that announcement either tonight or tomorrow on RAW.


G. Jonah Jameson - 10-28-2018 at 08:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
According to a few people on Twitter, during tapings this week, WWE security were passing out signs. Those signs said WE WANT WOMEN'S TAG CHAMPIONSHIPS. So, I'd expect that announcement either tonight or tomorrow on RAW.


I remember seeing two such signs, looking almost identical, in two very different parts of the crowd during RAW, so this would explain a lot.


CCharger - 10-29-2018 at 03:26 PM

* Cody cut a promo after his match on the Jericho cruise and said he was not signing with WWE and was determined to make All In 2 happen.

* John Cena and Daniel Bryan are in fact refusing to work the Crown Jewel event. Cena's absence will be explain on RAW through an angle. Bryan, on the other hand, is still in talks with Vince on appearing.

* Nikki and Rousey spent all week choreographing their match at Evolution.


Cherokee Jack - 10-30-2018 at 03:33 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* John Cena and Daniel Bryan are in fact refusing to work the Crown Jewel event. Cena's absence will be explain on RAW through an angle. Bryan, on the other hand, is still in talks with Vince on appearing.
That doesn’t make sense, and if true, seems really dumb. If Bryan objects to going to SA for any of the totally appropriate reasons that could justify one refusing to go, what could he possibly be negotiating with Vince?

If it’s purely money/compensation based, then Vince would be completely justified immediately after this match to bust Bryan down to the midcard status he tried to force on him five years ago, kill his merchandising and fade him into obscurity for the rest of whatever contract he’s under.

If it’s trying to force WWE’s hand on some other SA-related issue (for example, ceasing the shows over there following this one), well I can’t imagine that Daniel Bryan’s refusal to participate is going to sway WWE’s decision in a matter of hundreds of millions of dollars. Either they’re going to take the moral stand or give in for the money, but is Bryan really going to make them do something other than what they would do on their own?

Maybe they’re not announcing his absence because Vince is pressuring him to appear and still thinks that he’ll show up in the end. Maybe the story that Bryan is refusing to go was all bullshit to begin with. But the idea that there is some kind of negotiation going on seems ridiculous.


GodEatGod - 10-30-2018 at 06:49 AM

My guess is that negotiating would mean "he doesn't want to go but they're still trying to talk him into it."


DKBroiler - 10-30-2018 at 03:13 PM

Rumor - I’m like 24 hours of WWE programming behind and have no way to catch up other than to stop gambling on sports or roping steer on Read Dead Redemption 2.

Fact - I mostly only care so that I can stay on topic here.


DKBroiler - 10-30-2018 at 03:36 PM

As for the Saudi thing ...

Something like 11,000 people have been killed in the US already this year by gun violence. Focusing on one shady death internationally is losing the forest through the trees a bit. This was also my issue with Benghazi.

Also, 14 to 16 million dollars a year isn’t chump change. It’s enough to make the stock dive a bit. Lastly, there is a very real chance that WWE pulling out gets Vince, his employees and some fans literally car bombed so it’s not worth pulling out.

You could say that they never should of actually gotten into bed with the Saudi’s but they did. Now they should honor their contract because - like it or not - the downside of what COULD happen in retaliation is a lot worse than the downside of pissing off some fans.

The only reason I’m gonna not watch will be because I’m like a work week behind at this point.


Paddlefoot - 10-30-2018 at 03:52 PM

* today's latest is that in addition to Rousey vs Lynch, WWE will be doing another brand-crossover champ vs champ match at Survivor Series with Seth Rollins going head to head against Shinsuke Nakamura


First 9 - 10-30-2018 at 04:00 PM

Lady Lesnar vs Stone Cold Becky could be incredible. Especially since Ronda has been so giving in terms of selling and making her opponent look good.

Rollins vs Nakamura is interesting to me because that means Dean is either left off the card or thrown into the big SS match.


DKBroiler - 10-30-2018 at 06:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
* today's latest is that in addition to Rousey vs Lynch, WWE will be doing another brand-crossover champ vs champ match at Survivor Series with Seth Rollins going head to head against Shinsuke Nakamura


I’m assuming that they will have a big title match again as well. Last year’s Styles vs Lesnar match was really good. I wouldn’t mind a second crack at that. I’m assuming Lesnar vs Bryan would make $$$$$$$$$ but might be risking Bryan’s career. I just can’t see them jobbing out Braun to the SD champ in his first win after becoming champ. I’ll wager on AJ losing to Braun.


bigfatgoalie - 10-30-2018 at 07:15 PM

The Universal title situation is up in the air. Remember the plan* was Roman through Mania.

There’s a possibility that the title might change hands multiple times to set up Mania and/or other events.

I’d actually be ok with Brock winning at Dirty Blood Money In The Bank, losing to AJ at Survivor Series, and than dropping the belt to Seth or Dean at TLC or whatever they run in December.

If Braun wins...don’t do a Universal vs WWE champ vs champ match at Survivor Series. Feed Dolph to Braun (save Drew for TLC) and than redo the Gargano/Ciampa/Black angle at the Rumble with Seth causing Braun to lose the strap to Dean.

Hell...have Seth win the Rumble and than INTENTIONALLY help Dean win. That’d be badass.


First 9 - 10-30-2018 at 07:20 PM

Rosters are a bit depleted to do both a World Champion vs World Champion match and an all Main Eventers 5 vs 5 SS Match. I'm thinking they'll just do 5 vs 5 this time.

If it's in the cards, I think Lesnar vs Bryan would be just fine. A less experienced Lesnar faced a heavily inured, shouldn't be in the ring right now Kurt Angle at the main event of WM and the only casualty in that match was Brock's neck after the SSP. Yes, Taker almost died against Lesnar a few years back but the brunt of that was on Taker who couldn't protect himself.

Also Lesnar is stiff but not uncoordinated. He'll send flying but always in controlled fashion, he'll go for heavy blows and knee strikes but he won't purposefully go for the head or anything stupid. As long Bryan keeps up his end of the bargain and not land on his face when he gets those German suplexes it could be a terrific match.


CVD39 - 10-31-2018 at 01:38 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
As for the Saudi thing ...

Something like 11,000 people have been killed in the US already this year by gun violence. Focusing on one shady death internationally is losing the forest through the trees a bit. This was also my issue with Benghazi.

Also, 14 to 16 million dollars a year isn’t chump change. It’s enough to make the stock dive a bit. Lastly, there is a very real chance that WWE pulling out gets Vince, his employees and some fans literally car bombed so it’s not worth pulling out.

You could say that they never should of actually gotten into bed with the Saudi’s but they did. Now they should honor their contract because - like it or not - the downside of what COULD happen in retaliation is a lot worse than the downside of pissing off some fans.

The only reason I’m gonna not watch will be because I’m like a work week behind at this point.


Can’t disagree with the rest but the bolded part? Nah. That’s pretty fucked up to say on many different levels. He was an American citizen that was a journalist who was hacked to death by the people who he was critiquing. To just down play all of that because there’s a different problem ———-> over there is pretty awful. And to further compare it to Benghazi? Nah, man. Nah.

[Edited on 10-31-2018 by CVD39]


CCharger - 10-31-2018 at 02:39 PM

Yeah, I agree. These two issues are not mutually exclusive. You can be outraged by a pretty blatant and bloody government-sanctioned murder of a journalist AND by rampant gun violence. My issue with Saudi Arabia extends beyond the Kashoggi murder. Their treatment of women, the repression of free speech, their criminalization of homosexuality, their financing of the Yemeni genocide, their shady involvement in the 9/11 attacks.

Frankly, fuck the Saudis.


DKBroiler - 10-31-2018 at 04:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Yeah, I agree. These two issues are not mutually exclusive. You can be outraged by a pretty blatant and bloody government-sanctioned murder of a journalist AND by rampant gun violence. My issue with Saudi Arabia extends beyond the Kashoggi murder. Their treatment of women, the repression of free speech, their criminalization of homosexuality, their financing of the Yemeni genocide, their shady involvement in the 9/11 attacks.

Frankly, fuck the Saudis.


I actually agree with all of that. It’s a shitty place with a terrible track record on many levels. They never should have gotten in bed with them.

About the only part I disagree with is the outrage. I’m not changing anything in my day because a journalist was killed 5000 miles away same as none of us are changing our days over the thousands of people killed world wide every month. It sucks. It’s awful, but it’s the way it is.

As for WWE, due to the history of the Saudi’s going insanely overboard I was hoping that WWE would just bury their heads in the sand and honor their contract. The last thing I want to see is a bomb go off in the middle of Raw. That is the literal downside of this. Hurt feelings will go away for most people and onto the next outrage of the day. Exploding humans, not so much.

They can’t go back in time and undo the agreement so they should just move forward with it reluctantly.


punkerhardcore - 10-31-2018 at 04:30 PM

Exactly how I feel, DK. It sucks and it's a shitty place, but they said they'd do the show. Just power through it, own up to the PR hits, and don't go back.

Plus there will be a lot of people there as well, they should just go with the, "we didn't want to disappoint them, it's not like everybody there agrees/acts like their leader" rhetoric.

Which is probably true. How many of you here wanna be associated with acting/thinking exactly like *our* current leader? Go on, raise your hands.


CVD39 - 10-31-2018 at 06:53 PM

If we don’t care about a foreign nation murdering one of our journalist citizens because he was critical of their actions, then we might as well scrap the first amendment. You like John Oliver? This paves the way from him to be permanently silenced. Trevor Noah? Dan Rather? Anderson Cooper? Sean Hannity? Regardless of your politics, if we just “meh” off when a journalist is murdered by a country in their own consulate then we’re stepping back into the stone ages like an oil-less Saudi Arabia.


First 9 - 10-31-2018 at 08:50 PM

Hulk Hogan is confirmed for Crown Jewel.

I gotta admire the savyness of shoving him last minute into the Saudi show. Knock out all the bad PR in one go.

[Edited on 10-31-2018 by First 9]


gaubster - 10-31-2018 at 09:40 PM

The Saudi journalist wasn’t an American citizen. He just lived here...just to clarify. Also, he reportedly had ties to other radical Muslim extremists in the Muslim brotherhood. Lots of bad people involvd in the whole sordid thing. Just saying.


CVD39 - 10-31-2018 at 09:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gaubster
The Saudi journalist wasn’t an American citizen. He just lived here...just to clarify. Also, he reportedly had ties to other radical Muslim extremists in the Muslim brotherhood. Lots of bad people involvd in the whole sordid thing. Just saying.


Technically not but basically:

“Was Jamal Khashoggi a US citizen?

Jamal Khashoggi was born in Saudi Arabia, where he grew up to become a harsh critic of the nation.

The journalist’s career was ultimately tied close to the Saudi Arabian royal family, and he spent time in the country as an editor for the al-Watan newspaper.

He also served as a close advisor to the family, before joining US newspaper the Washington Post.

Mr Khashoggi fled the country following the arrests of his close friends, and took up residence in America.

Since moving to the US, Khashoggi has been a US ‘resident’ as he is employed and lives in the country.

However, he is not a citizen, but he was allegedly in the process of applying for citizenship before he was killed.

In the mean time, Khashoggi was living in the US on the basis of an ‘O-Visa’ which is awarded to individuals of “extraordinary ability and achievement”.

While not a citizen himself, three of his children are, and these facts have led people to state the US government owes Khashoggi justice.“


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1035565/jamal-khashoggi-murder-nationality-saudi-arabia-journalist-remains/amp


He’s still basically one of us.

[Edited on 10-31-2018 by CVD39]


Paddlefoot - 11-1-2018 at 12:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Hulk Hogan is confirmed for Crown Jewel.

I gotta admire the savyness of shoving him last minute into the Saudi show. Knock out all the bad PR in one go.


Well played, young man, well played. Only a great hero like Hulk Hogan can make WWE clean again!


DKBroiler - 11-1-2018 at 02:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
If we don’t care about a foreign nation murdering one of our journalist citizens because he was critical of their actions, then we might as well scrap the first amendment. You like John Oliver? This paves the way from him to be permanently silenced. Trevor Noah? Dan Rather? Anderson Cooper? Sean Hannity? Regardless of your politics, if we just “meh” off when a journalist is murdered by a country in their own consulate then we’re stepping back into the stone ages like an oil-less Saudi Arabia.


It’s not that I don’t care. It’s that I don’t care any more about 1 person than I do the thousands of other people who die each month in awful ways both here and abroad. And while we are at it, most of those people aren’t journalists. They are actors playing journalists causing people to get riled up about shit they otherwise wouldn’t care about.

To be blunt you can get more accurate news from Twitter than most of those people you mentioned. Journalism is a dying industry and none of these people are nearly as important as they like to make themselves seem.

It’s sad. It’s unfortunate. It’s also ... yeah ... not something that was even worth 3 posts on a wrestling forum.


Wickedfrost - 11-1-2018 at 03:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Hulk Hogan is confirmed for Crown Jewel.

I gotta admire the savyness of shoving him last minute into the Saudi show. Knock out all the bad PR in one go.


Well played, young man, well played. Only a great hero like Hulk Hogan can make WWE clean again!




Well...I mean it's only logical he go...Hogan is the right shade of orange for the Saudi's to give their money to.


bigfatgoalie - 11-1-2018 at 04:35 PM

When it comes crashing down Saudi Blood Money, there’s no need for pride.


chefb - 11-1-2018 at 04:45 PM

I wonder if WWE could have run the event in Saudi Arabia as planned, just not air it on the network, and then call their next house show "Crown Jewel" and air that instead. You could honor the date but not actually have to promote or broadcast an event in Saudi.Arabia


Paddlefoot - 11-1-2018 at 05:02 PM

The Saudis aren't dumb though when it comes to making deals. Given the amount of money involved they probably made sure in the contract that they would be given major shows with as much advertising on RAW and SD as possible. Trying to knock the status of those contractual dates down to the status of unimportant house show would most likely violate the agreement and open WWE up to litigation that they'd end up losing.


CCharger - 11-1-2018 at 05:40 PM

Who knew the Saudis had appointed Ted Dibiase as their finance minister?


CVD39 - 11-1-2018 at 06:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by CVD39
If we don’t care about a foreign nation murdering one of our journalist citizens because he was critical of their actions, then we might as well scrap the first amendment. You like John Oliver? This paves the way from him to be permanently silenced. Trevor Noah? Dan Rather? Anderson Cooper? Sean Hannity? Regardless of your politics, if we just “meh” off when a journalist is murdered by a country in their own consulate then we’re stepping back into the stone ages like an oil-less Saudi Arabia.


It’s not that I don’t care. It’s that I don’t care any more about 1 person than I do the thousands of other people who die each month in awful ways both here and abroad. And while we are at it, most of those people aren’t journalists. They are actors playing journalists causing people to get riled up about shit they otherwise wouldn’t care about.

To be blunt you can get more accurate news from Twitter than most of those people you mentioned. Journalism is a dying industry and none of these people are nearly as important as they like to make themselves seem.

It’s sad. It’s unfortunate. It’s also ... yeah ... not something that was even worth 3 posts on a wrestling forum.


This whole post is just sad. What a time to be alive, indeed.


G. Jonah Jameson - 11-1-2018 at 09:42 PM

I'm a journalist (part-time these days, but still), and I have a lot of friends, acquaintances and professional contacts who are journalists. Those are the people I'm worried about in this age of wanton but easily ignored murder/"the media is the enemy of the American people" nonsense. Not famous TV personalities -- normal people trying to do their largely thankless jobs in a world that gets more hostile toward them with each passing second.

OK, venting over. I'm sure everyone can guess where I fall on watching Crown Jewel.


Fifth Horseman - 11-2-2018 at 05:16 AM

I'd really like to know how Michael Cole feels about it. He IS a legit journalist, long before his WWE days.


Katie Vick killer - 11-2-2018 at 06:00 AM

I can't help but think, has Vince invited Meltzer to Crown Jewel?


DKBroiler - 11-2-2018 at 02:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by G. Jonah Jameson
I'm a journalist (part-time these days, but still), and I have a lot of friends, acquaintances and professional contacts who are journalists. Those are the people I'm worried about in this age of wanton but easily ignored murder/"the media is the enemy of the American people" nonsense. Not famous TV personalities -- normal people trying to do their largely thankless jobs in a world that gets more hostile toward them with each passing second.

OK, venting over. I'm sure everyone can guess where I fall on watching Crown Jewel.


This I get. Little known fact ... I’ve been a writer off and on for a long time and even had my own column. I agree with your sentiment. It would be incomprehensible to me that something I wrote could lead to something like this. This whole situation is way closer to home for me than you’d imagine.


CCharger - 11-2-2018 at 02:31 PM

* Unlike Cena, Daniel Bryan has heat with the front office due to his refusal to work Crown Jewel. While outwardly they are accepting of this, internally they are preparing to bury him creatively. This began on Smackdown where he not only lost to Styles but lost by submission. So, expect Bryan to go on a long, embarrassing losing streak.


DKBroiler - 11-2-2018 at 02:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Unlike Cena, Daniel Bryan has heat with the front office due to his refusal to work Crown Jewel. While outwardly they are accepting of this, internally they are preparing to bury him creatively. This began on Smackdown where he not only lost to Styles but lost by submission. So, expect Bryan to go on a long, embarrassing losing streak.


Culminating with a Royal Rumble loss to someone who will boo’d into submission for the next 5 years. If they think Drew McIntyre winning the Rumble is a good idea, they better not have Daniel Bryan in that match.


G. Jonah Jameson - 11-2-2018 at 05:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Culminating with a Royal Rumble loss to someone who will boo’d into submission for the next 5 years. If they think Drew McIntyre winning the Rumble is a good idea, they better not have Daniel Bryan in that match.


Drew McIntyre's a heel, so presumably WWE would want fans to boo him.

Though, having said that, I'll believe a creative burial of Daniel Bryan when I see it. I mean, sure, I can see Vince McMahon blowing a gasket over the whole thing, but his moods change on a dime, especially given that Bryan's refusal to work Crown Jewel doesn't affect storyline plans moving forward in any meaningful way. He was likely always going to lose to AJ Styles, so they move the match to SmackDown!, have Samoa Joe lose to Styles at Crown Jewel instead and continue ahead with what we all assume is a WWE Title win for the Miz in the lead-up to the Royal Rumble. I don't even know what else you do with the WWE Title picture if you don't go the Miz-Bryan direction with it, honestly, unless you want to run with Styles all the way to Wrestlemania and have him drop it there to (sigh) Randy Orton.


CamstunPWG187 - 11-2-2018 at 06:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Unlike Cena, Daniel Bryan has heat with the front office due to his refusal to work Crown Jewel. While outwardly they are accepting of this, internally they are preparing to bury him creatively. This began on Smackdown where he not only lost to Styles but lost by submission. So, expect Bryan to go on a long, embarrassing losing streak.


I pray that this happens just so the pattern of his booking can be exposed on the news as to how fucking petty Vince and Co are.

WWE hasn’t been put under the microscope like this since the summer of 2007.

When it rains, it pours.


Paddlefoot - 11-2-2018 at 06:20 PM

They're overdue then for a good downpour to wash away some of the bullshit that's been building up for too long.


First 9 - 11-2-2018 at 11:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Unlike Cena, Daniel Bryan has heat with the front office due to his refusal to work Crown Jewel. While outwardly they are accepting of this, internally they are preparing to bury him creatively. This began on Smackdown where he not only lost to Styles but lost by submission. So, expect Bryan to go on a long, embarrassing losing streak.


So it's ok for the death-defying,daredevil Jeff Hardy to tap out to Bryan but it's a burial if Bryan taps? The submission lost wasn't in any damaging to Bryan, Styles earned that tap out by working on the leg the entire match. Maybe WWE is pissed but they got no way to really get back at him. They can bury him all they want but he's still locked in a contract with Main Event money and will be a featured part of their beloved reality show so they'll just be shooting themselves in the foot if they don't keep him as one of the top 10 guys on either brand.


GodEatGod - 11-3-2018 at 01:32 AM

The natural story for Bryan is him hitting rock bottom and struggling for a while anyway, so...okay? I mean, I expected to see him jobbing pretty steadily at least until the Rumble.

I'm guessing Miz gets the next title shot at AJ (and that he and Shane are in cahoots after the silly bit at *REDACTED* today). Which mostly sucks just because I don't want fucking Shane McMahon on my TV, but if he's going to be, he should at least be a fucking heel.


SpiNNeR72 - 11-3-2018 at 03:35 PM

As usual the Daniel Bryan thing is proving to be bullshit as it had already been agreed that he wouldn't work any more Saudi shows after the last one, hence him having other appearances pre-booked for the same time.


nOOb - 11-4-2018 at 12:10 PM

Daniel Cormier won his fight last night, so here's the breakdown of how Lesnar/Cormier would work before Cormier retires:

-Brock Lesnar has been re-entered into the USDA Doping Pool, so, barring Vince having spiked any of Lesnar's meals with super grizzly bear hormones, Brock's cleared to fight January 3rd.
-The UFC's first event (that they would actually put Brock on) is UFC 233, which is January 26th.
-The Royal Rumble, coincidentally, is January 27th.
-Daniel Cormier retires in March.
-The only other shows the UFC is putting on (again, that they would use a Brock Lesnar fight for) in that time are March 2nd in Las Vegas for UFC 235 and, this is the wild card but if Vince can find a way to co-promote this with Dana White, it's also very possible, February 17th for the UFC's debut show with ESPN.

So, I guess you can expect one appearance of Raw's main title between now and the Royal Rumble, because there's very little chance Vince is going to risk injury to his dream of having a guy hold both his top title AND the top title in a legitimate professional sport, especially with such a short window to get that fight in.


Cherokee Jack - 11-4-2018 at 05:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
As usual the Daniel Bryan thing is proving to be bullshit as it had already been agreed that he wouldn't work any more Saudi shows after the last one, hence him having other appearances pre-booked for the same time.
Source?

Seems like if it was already agreed that he wouldn’t be working any more Saudi shows, they wouldn’t have booked him as the #1 contender to challenge AJ at Crown Jewel and promoted that match right up until just a few days before the show.


SpiNNeR72 - 11-4-2018 at 08:54 PM

Meltzer :

"The situation with Daniel Bryan not wanting to wrestle at WWE Crown Jewel was said to be complicated as he did the first show in Saudi Arabia with little to no knowledge about any of the political issues in the country. All the wrestlers were told that it was just another huge international show but they weren't told that it would virtually be a long "propaganda commercial" so some participated in pro-Saudi videos because "it's their job" while others tried their best to avoid doing anything in a non-controversial fashion.

With Bryan, after the Greatest Royal Rumble, he felt he couldn't go back there under those circumstances - women not being able to perform for one as he is married to a woman wrestler, the treatment of homosexuals and the fact that the country didn't allow Syrian Sami Zayn to perform on the show, which Bryan considered racism."

This was covered a fair bit back then but forgotten, especially the Zayn aspect.

They were right to carry on the angles as it was, as there were plenty of options to do Bryan/Styles, including if they moved the event.


They one that is quietly not mentioned is Balor, who also objected.


Flash - 11-4-2018 at 11:48 PM

I didn't realize that Zayn was blacklisted by the Saudi's; the last I had heard was that he refused to wrestle there due to well, everything the Saudi's do...


CamstunPWG187 - 11-5-2018 at 05:28 AM

Makes sense. Bryan has a deep professional relationship with Zayn going back to 2007 in PWG when they had a pair of Excellent matches that elevated PWG and the like (something ROH wouldn’t have booked, at the time), and Incan see him really being bothered by a guy like him being screwed around by dictatorships.

Stealth PWG post.


DKBroiler - 11-5-2018 at 10:12 PM

I’ll say this mostly because I believe it but also to troll the “it’s still real to me guys” who take this comedy way too seriously.

Daniel Cormier is going to beat the doors off of Brock, retire, and then main event Wrestlemania in a rematch against him for the Universal Championship in April.

And it will literally be what’s best for business.


CCharger - 11-5-2018 at 10:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I’ll say this mostly because I believe it but also to troll the “it’s still real to me guys” who take this comedy way too seriously.

Daniel Cormier is going to beat the doors off of Brock, retire, and then main event Wrestlemania in a rematch against him for the Universal Championship in April.

And it will literally be what’s best for business.

If Cormier wrestles at Wrestlemania, it will be against the Best In The World Shane McMahon. And Shane's going over.


DevilSoprano - 11-5-2018 at 11:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I’ll say this mostly because I believe it but also to troll the “it’s still real to me guys” who take this comedy way too seriously.

Daniel Cormier is going to beat the doors off of Brock, retire, and then main event Wrestlemania in a rematch against him for the Universal Championship in April.

And it will literally be what’s best for business.


You're still an idiot.


Flash - 11-6-2018 at 03:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I’ll say this mostly because I believe it but also to troll the “it’s still real to me guys” who take this comedy way too seriously.

Daniel Cormier is going to beat the doors off of Brock, retire, and then main event Wrestlemania in a rematch against him for the Universal Championship in April.

And it will literally be what’s best for business.


Interesting thought... I mean on one hand you have wrestling being designed to do something or another to get the maximum eyeballs on the product; but on the other you gotta wonder if there's a tipping point of putting too much emphasis on spectacle over the ongoing product... The fact that the WWE is still in business after Lawrence Taylor main evented a Wrestlemania tells you it will.

I've personally always been in favour of Wrestlemania being the culmination of the years storylines; kind of the massive season finale where you wrap up the stories... it's not that, and hasn't been it in a looooong time, and what's more in recent years its become less about anything the WWE does for the whole year and more as a showcase or advertisement.


CCharger - 11-6-2018 at 01:31 PM

Lotsa newz and rumorz today:

* The Bellas are expected to win the inaugural women's tag titles which will be defended on both brands. They are penciled in to face Trish and Lita at Wrestlemania with those belts on teh line.

* Shane was booked to win the World Cup from the beginning, and it is rumored that this was the first part of his heel turn.

* The planned Shawn Michaels/Taker match is now "in question" with Michaels reiterating that "Crown Jewel was fun, but he's done"

*It is now becoming public that Asuka's undefeated streak had nothing to do with building her up, and everything to do to feeding her to Charlotte to build Charlotte up.

* Prior to Reigns leaving, the plan was for Roman to beat Lesnar clean and have Brock finish out his contract off-screen.

* Miz is expected to turn babyface for no other reason than Vince thinks it would be better for him to be a "good guy" to promote his new reality show


First 9 - 11-6-2018 at 01:38 PM

Can't wait to see Miz teaming up with Bryan.


nOOb - 11-6-2018 at 01:40 PM

No, no it would not be good for Miz to be face for any reason. Ever. He sucks at it. Heel is in his blood. He was born for it. His TV show will never ever be affected by his face/heel alignment.

Which means it’s happening.


bigfatgoalie - 11-6-2018 at 08:14 PM

So...rumour going around that Braun’s knees are shot. No word if he will need surgery or rehab.

If true...push the ever living fuck out of Drew and remember the Balor is on the fucking roster.


First 9 - 11-6-2018 at 10:29 PM

Time for Bray Wyatt to get revitalized and become the top guy he should have been 5 years ago.

Seriously, is he also injured or is WWE ''protecting'' him by keeping him off-screen until they can figure something for him?


GodEatGod - 11-6-2018 at 10:46 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Time for Bray Wyatt to get revitalized and become the top guy he should have been 5 years ago.

Seriously, is he also injured or is WWE ''protecting'' him by keeping him off-screen until they can figure something for him?


He's been hinting on his Twitter feed about a tweaked gimmick, implying that Bray's been in a mental asylum getting 'fixed'. How that manifests in a finished product, I have no idea, but I love the guy as a performer so I hope it's something cool.


Paddlefoot - 11-7-2018 at 04:19 AM

Bray's been involved with some of the production during his time off from the ring, including some work on the Hardy's insane Halloween special.

* Jose Lothario, HBK's trainer, passed away today at age 83

* Zelina Vega was kept off the WWE tour of Britain and Europe due to a concussion - she got the injury when she crashed into Tamina at Evolution after being tossed out of the ring by Nia Jax

* WWE recently acquired the archive for the Puerto Rican World Wrestling Council promotion; the library includes matches from a range of big-name 1980's wrestling stars such as Ric Flair, Randy Savage, The Funks, Stan Hansen, Pedro Morales, and many others: WWC is also unfortunately the promotion where Bruiser Brody was murdered in the locker-room back in 1988; the WWC library was one of the larger collections remaining that hadn't yet come under the ownership of WWE

* Triple H underwent surgery today for the torn pectoral muscle he suffered at Crown Jewel - no word yet on how long it will be before he can begin training again for his annual appearance at Wrestlemania

* looks like the match commentary/hype by Lio Rush for Bobby Lashley has come to an end as he did this week's RAW and a series of recent live events without the mic - HAHA!



[Edited on 11/7/2018 by Paddlefoot]


DKBroiler - 11-7-2018 at 05:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DevilSoprano
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
I’ll say this mostly because I believe it but also to troll the “it’s still real to me guys” who take this comedy way too seriously.

Daniel Cormier is going to beat the doors off of Brock, retire, and then main event Wrestlemania in a rematch against him for the Universal Championship in April.

And it will literally be what’s best for business.


You're still an idiot.


If by idiot you mean the guy who continually gets proven right then sure. Cormier is far and away the best available potential free agent signing in 2019. I bet you also thought that signing Rousey was a bad idea. Or called me an idiot 3 years ago when I kept telling everyone that Braun would be a main eventer.

The WWE is a money making business. That’s what they do. They are not a company who gives one shit about “the artistry of professional wrestling”. They are in it to make money. Daniel Cormier will make them money. Brock Lesnar makes them money. Cormier and Brock will make the UFC a ton of money. Cormier is going to retire shortly thereafter and has already been working as a commentator at the WWE Performance Center.

About the only thing I’m unsure of is the timeline. This year’s WM might be slightly too soon. Maybe it’s at SummerSlam or maybe it’s at WM in 2020. But it’s gonna happen.

Can you even think of a match from Raw that would be capable of legitimately headlining WM this year aside from a Shield triple threat ... which may be literally impossible since Roman is sick?

McIntyre versus Braun or Lesnar MAY be able to pull it off. We’ve seen him against Rollins and Ambrose already. Dolph is great but he’s borderline unbelievable against guys like Lesnar. After that ... Balor? Yeah, no.

So yeah, call me an idiot all you want for whatever reasons you actually failed to mention. But when it comes to this I’ve likely been the most accurate WWE prognosticator on this board for a long time. It’s not about what you want. It’s not about art. It’s about what the McMahon’s want and what they ALWAYS want is the most money they can possibly get.


punkerhardcore - 11-7-2018 at 07:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Daniel Cormier will make them money. Brock Lesnar makes them money. Cormier and Brock will make the UFC a ton of money. Cormier is going to retire shortly thereafter and has already been working as a commentator at the WWE Performance Center.



Will he really make them money? More specifically, will Brock vs. Cormier at WrestleMania really make the WWE any money? I've never bought into this argument.


Think about the two different types of folk who are gonna watch Mania--


a)People like us, the diehards who will watch no matter what. Doesn't matter what matches are on the card, we'll watch it regardless.

b)Casual WWE fans. This is who Mania is for now, which is why it is no longer the culmination of feuds with good matches peppered in between. It's a spectacle of old timers, part timers and celebs in the desperate hope of drawing in some eyeballs that have strayed from the product, and the hope they stay for a while and keep up with things.


So Cormier is on the card. Ok.. so what? I'm a (very) casual UFC fan. I'm not sure I've ever seen a match of his. Maybe I have, I don't know. What I do know is that I couldn't pick the guy out of a lineup, so he means nothing to me in a WWE ring.


A UFC fan who has never watched pro wrestling before isn't going to bother with Mania. If Shamrock, Severn, Tank Abbott, Lesnar and Rousey couldn't draw them in, Cormier couldn't. So WWE isn't making any money there.


Sure, there are probably a few nutjobs out there who WILL watch just because they are Cormier fans, but again-- so what? They buy a ticket to Mania? Mania would sell out anyway. There's no gain there. They sign up for a free month of the WWE Network to check it out? Again, there's no money being made there.


Do you honestly think some diehard MMA and/or Cormier fan, who has never had any interest in pro wrestling before, is going to bother slogging through a 7, 8, 9 hour show just to watch some guy they like in a fake fight? Fuck no. I've been a fan of WWE for almost 30 years now, and I wouldn't attend Wrestlemania these days, even if you gave me a free front row ticket. I can barely get through that shit each year just watching from my couch.


I just don't see how anyone could possibly think that one dude (especially someone like Cormier) could move the needle enough to think he is somehow going to make the company all kinds of money.


CCharger - 11-7-2018 at 07:39 PM

Pro wrestling fans watch UFC. UFC fans do not watch wrestling.

In fact, MMA folks in general turn their noses up at the "fake stuff". You should see the way they turned on Rhonda and scoff at Brock.


SpiNNeR72 - 11-7-2018 at 07:52 PM

As a non-fan, Rousey won a lot of respect from me for this little nugget in a recent interview :

On Sasha Banks being her dream opponent: "I would really love to wrestle Sasha Banks. I think I've just been so impressed watching her work, and see her in the back, and see her work. And I was already a fan of her's before. I think that we would be able to make something great together and I think she has given a lot of women their best matches ever. But I almost feel like I'm not at the right level yet for her. I really think that we could make something really special and really great, but I don't know that I'm at the level that's ready for that yet and I don't know if the company would ever like that, but in a perfect world, I would definitely love that for sure."


GodEatGod - 11-7-2018 at 09:16 PM

If Cormier would be a good professional wrestler, he's welcome to come aboard. If he's a crappy or mediocre wrestler pushed beyond his means because he was famous in UFC, well, that would kind of suck, but I don't know how he'd be one way or the other.

Because it's always subjective to that basic criterion. It's fine if they're good and it's shitty if they suck. I don't really know or care if Brock Lesnar is a draw anymore. I'm done with him because I, myself, no longer find him entertaining. The only match I think they could do that I would care about, Batista, isn't terribly likely and would just be a one time event anyway and certainly not for the fucking title.

Ronda has mostly worked out. She's had a rough patch here and there, but honestly, for about a year of training, a lot of that on the job, she's pretty damn good.


DKBroiler - 11-7-2018 at 09:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
If Cormier would be a good professional wrestler, he's welcome to come aboard. If he's a crappy or mediocre wrestler pushed beyond his means because he was famous in UFC, well, that would kind of suck, but I don't know how he'd be one way or the other.

Because it's always subjective to that basic criterion. It's fine if they're good and it's shitty if they suck. I don't really know or care if Brock Lesnar is a draw anymore. I'm done with him because I, myself, no longer find him entertaining. The only match I think they could do that I would care about, Batista, isn't terribly likely and would just be a one time event anyway and certainly not for the fucking title.

Ronda has mostly worked out. She's had a rough patch here and there, but honestly, for about a year of training, a lot of that on the job, she's pretty damn good.


Damnit! I had an really long winded but well thought out reply that went away because of a phone call. Here are the cliff notes.

- Cormier is the UFC Heavyweight and Light Heavyweight Champion currently. He is highly likely to be one of the 3 best pound for pound fighters in the world. He’s never failed a drug test and is universally considered a good guy. He’s also a part time commentator already and should have no issue with the talking points from the jump. His style is a little bit on the boring side but he’s also a life long huge WWE fan so I have no doubts that he will transition. He’s no worse than 90% of the prospect of Rousey with MUCH higher upside verbally. He’s likely the safest bet to be a deserving World Champion of any non-current professional wrestler.

- While I would agree that he may not have a huge financial impact upon tickets, network buys or merchandise where he absolutely will help financially is to get Fox to shell out another billion dollars from 2025 to 2030. Much like the NFL, MLB and NBA essentially every move now is made with the next TV contract in mind.

- We have to come to grips with the fact that we now live in an age where there are many more avenues to the main event other than spending 10 years grinding at professional wrestling. Did you know that Enes Kanter of the Knicks (he is dating Dana Brooke) has already said he will go to WWE when he retires? Rob Gronkowski may as well do it too. The white whale is actually Jon Jones because he really is the baddest man on earth but he’s a bad bad bad guy so I’m not sure if even Vince wants to go there. All I’m saying is that guys like this have just as much of a shot at being a WWE champion as Omega or Naito. You don’t have to like it, but it’s the reality of the situation.


DKBroiler - 11-7-2018 at 09:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Pro wrestling fans watch UFC. UFC fans do not watch wrestling.

In fact, MMA folks in general turn their noses up at the "fake stuff". You should see the way they turned on Rhonda and scoff at Brock.


Talk to me in a year when John Cena is doing halftime promos during Patriots games. The Fox/WWE deal is a game changer. Even if they get zero MMA crossover fans the number of fans that will tune in simply because Fox tells them to will be outrageous.

When those new fans come pouring in ... and they will come pouring in ... if the first thing they see is a UFC Champion it will give WWE a bit of legitimacy that someone like Seth Rollins never could.

And I love Seth Rollins. You grab them with the heavyweights and you keep them with the entertaining not quite heavyweights. It worked with Hogan and Andre and Savage and Steamboat. It worked with Nash and Hall and the WCW cruiserweights. It will work again with Lesnar and Cormier. They’ll hook the new Fox fans. It will then fall to Rollins and company to keep them.


Count Zero - 11-7-2018 at 11:35 PM

From what I have heard/read (not personal experience, so take with all the salt you want) Cormier is a boring MMA fighter. He's grab-submit city. That... would translate well into "wrestling", but not so well into Professional Scripted Entertainment. I dunno if Casual Fans would really be into it, unless he brings a pretty damn fine talking-game (which I will admit he reportedly does well, again from what I have heard.).

[Edited on 11-7-2018 by Count Zero]


punkerhardcore - 11-8-2018 at 12:17 AM

How the fuck is Daniel Cormier going to bring in an extra billion dollars and all those extra years of contract extension o the WWE?

Also you are nuts if you think the move to Fox is somehow going to cause Smackdown's ratings to rocket to the Moon. Not counting NFL stuff, what is Fox's highest rated show? Empire? The Simpsons? Gimme a fucking break.

Speaking of the Simpsons, all their Sunday primetime cartoons have been on for ages with loyal fanbases, and have the benefit of an NFL lead-in, and they still get what... about 2 million viewers per week or so?

And yeah, wrestling hit a few sweet spots over the years. Hogan and that era, the NWO era for WCW. And you think Lesnar and Cormier will do the same? Jesus. Lesnar would have to show up more than four times a year. And again-- who the fuck is Cormier? For some reason, you are greatly overestimating his celebrity and popularity.


First 9 - 11-8-2018 at 12:43 AM

I'm kinda thorn on wether DK is hilariously talking out of his ass or agreeing on some level with him.

If Cornier makes the jump he has two big things in his favor, he'd be the first UFC name to come into WWE as a conquering hero instead of a cast off and a former UFC Main Event being remade as a WWE match is quite novel.

On the other hand law of diminishing returns will make his jump less of a big deal, Lesnar returning in 2012 was huge, Rousey making the jump made headlines, by #3 the hype machne won't be as hot. And then there's also the fact that unless your McGregor, these guys really do need the UFC hype machine to stay relevant.

Lesnar and Rousey were bigger names than Cormier, so I don't expect the continents to shift if he joins up with them but maybe they can get some mileage out of doing a rematch of a UFC match at WM.

But yeah, that comparison to Hogan and Savage in their 80's prime or Nash and Hall in the 90s is way too generous.

[Edited on 11-8-2018 by First 9]


G. Jonah Jameson - 11-8-2018 at 01:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Because it's always subjective to that basic criterion. It's fine if they're good and it's shitty if they suck. I don't really know or care if Brock Lesnar is a draw anymore. I'm done with him because I, myself, no longer find him entertaining. The only match I think they could do that I would care about, Batista, isn't terribly likely and would just be a one time event anyway and certainly not for the fucking title.



Goddamn it, now that you've said it, that's exactly what they're going to do, title on the line and everything. Especially now that Triple H is likely missing Wrestlemania.


CCharger - 11-8-2018 at 03:06 AM

* Meltzer is reporting that with Reigns on the shelf indefinitely, Vince quietly signed Brock to the richest deal in WWE history, and is planning on moving forward with him as the company's centerpiece. The deal was reportedly so lucrative for Brock that it puts his UFC return in doubt. The deal will require him to work more dates than his previous deal which would interfere with any fight preparation.


nOOb - 11-8-2018 at 11:56 AM

Cormier was going to audition for a commentating spot for WWE prior to his fight with Derrick Lewis being announced. So the move is likely happening. I just don’t think a guy who wants to retire at 40 because of health concerns is going to want to jump into the ring and bang himself up more than he does in his fights. If he joins, he probably does pre-show stuff (like he does for UFC now), and that’s that (by the time they got to a special attraction match, he’d have been out of the spotlight he does get for months, and he’s already no Ronda Rousey). Really, though, so we need another dominant UFC fighter in WWE? The other two they have employed don’t really lose, And there’s no reason to think that Cormier would be given any different treatment.


DKBroiler - 11-8-2018 at 04:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nOOb
Cormier was going to audition for a commentating spot for WWE prior to his fight with Derrick Lewis being announced. So the move is likely happening. I just don’t think a guy who wants to retire at 40 because of health concerns is going to want to jump into the ring and bang himself up more than he does in his fights. If he joins, he probably does pre-show stuff (like he does for UFC now), and that’s that (by the time they got to a special attraction match, he’d have been out of the spotlight he does get for months, and he’s already no Ronda Rousey). Really, though, so we need another dominant UFC fighter in WWE? The other two they have employed don’t really lose, And there’s no reason to think that Cormier would be given any different treatment.


Do we need one? Probably not. Are we going to get one? Very likely. From the perfect timing department this was just published on The Ringer.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/11/8/18073600/daniel-cormier-next-brock-lesnar-jon-jones

The part thats relevant is as follows ...

“Everyone knows that it’s a match tailored to Cormier. For all that he has meant to the UFC as a commentator and as a savior of events (like UFC 230, which he took on with a little more than three weeks’ notice), giving him one last big payday and a chance to go out on top is a high five from the UFC brass. A win over Lesnar would keep his undefeated record as a heavyweight intact and allow him to segue into the ever-expanding consciousness of the pro wrestling world. The WWE wants him become part of the broadcasting crew as it begins its partnership with FOX, and ending his MMA career with a win over Lesnar creates some interesting crossover possibilities.”

Cormier is not just gonna be some pre-show guy. He has legitimate experience doing color commentary. It’s quite possible that he takes Corey Graves’ spot on Smackdown. That said, the prospect of having a color commentator who could beat the shit out of every competitor sit around and not be used in the ring is just not believable to me. Maybe at first, sure, but eventually - I’d say no later than WM 2020 - he’ll be in the WWE ring competing for championships.

[Edited on 11-8-2018 by DKBroiler]


denverpunk - 11-8-2018 at 05:30 PM

According to the sheets, Braun Strowman has some heat that may be a reason for being yanked around in the title picture. Reports say that he tends to show up late and leave early, and has stepped on some toes due to poor etiquette.


Gobshite - 11-8-2018 at 09:24 PM

I think Brian Campbell’s in this corner podcast mentioned something about him needing surgery or an extended period of rehab on his knees that may require him to be off TV too, so they went with Brock.

Plus Vince thinks Brock can beat Cormier, and loves that idea.


CCharger - 11-8-2018 at 09:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
According to the sheets, Braun Strowman has some heat that may be a reason for being yanked around in the title picture. Reports say that he tends to show up late and leave early, and has stepped on some toes due to poor etiquette.

Yes, PWInsider reported this exactly. In the ring and on the mike, Braun is top notch, but apparently he doesn't do the little things that are expected of a top guy. The exact words wused were "Braun is his own worst enemy and his own worst advocate."


bigfatgoalie - 11-8-2018 at 11:59 PM

Braun rumors are all over the place.

First he was injured.

Then he is his own worse advocate.

I've also seen a rumor that Braun lost to Lesnar to get the fans behind Braun in his chase to eventually get "these hands" on Brock.

Who knows at this point...and the longer Braun fails to break out fully as a guy who can hold one of the top two belts, the less and less I care.


SpiNNeR72 - 11-9-2018 at 12:17 PM

The thing with Braun is interesting. We all moan when they don't "strap the rocket" to the hot new guy, but I am coming to understand why they need to have them prove themselves.

Take Cena - "we" didn't like his push but came to respect him due to his work ethic, something WWE could see in the back way before it filtered out to us.

I can totally understand why Lesnar has respect from Vince. He is a legit draw who does what he says he will do, and is reliable.

It is clear that whatever the truth about Strowman, they weren't ready for him to be champ yet, so give Lesnar a big paycheck for a few more months to keep things rolling and I strongly suspect, given his history and the ending of RAW, that McIntyre is set to be the chosen one.


CCharger - 11-9-2018 at 03:10 PM

* Netflix is ending its deal with Lucha Underground and it is expected that the company will fold


First 9 - 11-9-2018 at 04:39 PM

LU might just have been too good to last.

It was so unique and special because of the people in charge treating it as a tv show with an emphasis on continuity, character work, and compelling stories but it came off at the expense of failing in some ways as a wrestling company.Few house shows despite the demand being there for more, No PPV-style shows on a separate platform, generic merch, etc.


lz4005 - 11-9-2018 at 04:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
* Netflix is ending its deal with Lucha Underground and it is expected that the company will fold


I just read an interview that came out yesterday with one of the producers who said they had funding from El Ray for season 5, but needed at least one more revenue stream to be able to go back to season 3 quality. Essentially acknowledging that the quality of season 4 had suffered because of budget cuts.


Paddlefoot - 11-9-2018 at 05:10 PM

If people actually believe that Braun Strowman, one of the top-five hottest performers of the last two years, is gonna get diminished over something as stupid as showing up late or leaving the tape from his wrists on the locker-room floor then one of two things will be confirmed. One, Vince is really that crazy or, two, the dirtsheets and the IWC are that genuinely stupid to believe that a businessman (who's run a wildly successful company for the last fifty years) like Vince really is that crazy.

If Braun gets less time it will be because he's been worn down by two years non-stop of being the centerpiece in major stories, travelling, and ring-action, and he simply needs a break. It's a fuck of lot more logical than thinking the rest of the men's roster managed to get him de-pushed because their feelings got hurt by him showing up late and leaving early and giving the arena janitorial staff some extra minor cleaning up to do.

[Edited on 11/9/2018 by Paddlefoot]


DKBroiler - 11-9-2018 at 05:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
If people actually believe that Braun Strowman, one of the top-five hottest performers of the last two years, is gonna get diminished over something as stupid as showing up late or leaving the tape from his wrists on the locker-room floor then one of two things will be confirmed. One, Vince is really that crazy or, two, the dirtsheets and the IWC are that genuinely stupid to believe that a businessman (who's run a wildly successful company for the last fifty years) like Vince really is that crazy.

If Braun gets less time it will be because he's been worn down by two years non-stop of being the centerpiece in major stories, travelling, and ring-action, and he simply needs a break. It's a fuck of lot more logical than thinking the rest of the men's roster managed to get him de-pushed because their feelings got hurt by him showing up late and leaving early and giving the arena janitorial staff some extra minor cleaning up to do.

[Edited on 11/9/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Exactly. Bad knees will stop a push. Failing a drug test will stop a push. Being HABITUALLY late or lazy will stop a push. If he has shown a pattern of showing up late and management already warned him about it that’s one thing, but in what world would any company stop a cash cow on a whim without a warning?

Not picking up your wrist tape or accidentally shaking someone’s hand too hard or similar nonsense is just ... well ... nonsense.

It’s 2018. Braun is a cash cow who obliterates everyone on the roster who isn’t Lesnar or Roman. Essentially every report about “backstage heat” for the last few years has been a load of bullshit except for Enzo.

It staggers my brain daily that some of you guys listen to the Meltzer’s of the world. He’s throwing shit against the wall. Sometimes he’ll be right, and when he isn’t he can fall back on vagueries like “sources”. Meanwhile I get called an idiot for sticking to my overall hypothesis of “the McMahon family really likes money” and just follow the clues from there.


Paddlefoot - 11-9-2018 at 05:53 PM

The only way that I could see someone with Braun's status getting punished for being late would be if he ended up hurting his opponent during a match because he didn't show up on time in order to get a rehearsal in with them first. And that's still a big mabey because despite his freakish size, strength, and speed, I've seen nothing from Braun to show that he's reckless or incompetent in the ring to the point where his opponents have to worry about their safety. I said when he first went solo that he was going to turn into the best big-man wrestler WWE's ever had and I stand by it because he's been a total professional with practically every thing he's done since management put their faith in him as a performer back then. Highly doubtful that they'd let the other employee's kids become part of a Strowman storyline if he was some kind of a troublemaker, or an asshole, or even if he was just plain lazy.


DKBroiler - 11-9-2018 at 05:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
The only way that I could see someone with Braun's status getting punished for being late would be if he ended up hurting his opponent during a match because he didn't show up on time in order to get a rehearsal in with them first. And that's still a big mabey because despite his freakish size, strength, and speed, I've seen nothing from Braun to show that he's reckless or incompetent in the ring to the point where his opponents have to worry about their safety. I said when he first went solo that he was going to turn into the best big-man wrestler WWE's ever had and I stand by it because he's been a total professional with practically every thing he's done since management put their faith in him as a performer back then. Highly doubtful that they'd let the other employee's kids become part of a Strowman storyline if he was some kind of a troublemaker, or an asshole, or even if he was just plain lazy.



Once again, completely agree. It’s just too easy to blame Vince McMahon as the crazy evil madman behind the curtain because he’s clickbait cat knip.

Anyway here’s a real rumor ... due to a friend of a friend situation I might get to party in Vegas for a few days with Kenny King completely unrelated to wrestling. Far from confirmed but it’s possible. What is confirmed is that I’m going to Vegas and I’ll live down to every stereotype you’ve ever thought of ol’DK.


Paddlefoot - 11-9-2018 at 06:11 PM

Drink battery acid then throw the battery out of a thirtieth-story hotel room window? [/wwDKBd-Vegas]


GodEatGod - 11-9-2018 at 06:32 PM

Here's the thing...

I don't really care about Braun.

I mean, he's fine. He's had some good matches, a few good angles. He's entertaining enough on occasion. But I don't feel any investment in him. I don't care if he ever gets the title, I don't really root for him, he's just...a guy.

I know there was a sense that he could be the next big thing, but a lot of that was his very hot feud with Roman and him being allowed to be an unstoppable destruction machine with feats of superhuman strength. Which is fine for an angle or a feud but just isn't really a viable long-term character. There's a reason most Hulk stories are eighty percent Bruce Banner - because if you have a character that powerful and destructive, storytelling with him can be limited. He's just not flexible enough to be a centerpiece character in and of himself. Pathos and sympathy are developed through vulnerability and Braun...doesn't really have any (and when he does, everyone's like HIS MYSTIQUE IS GONE).

Now, you can use that kind of character for a limited run. Goldberg's the best example of it I can think of - a guy who was used in limited and very linear fashion until he finished that storyline and then the rest of his career was chasing that glory of his undefeated streak. Braun could have been a champion in that regard, but, frankly, they should have pulled that trigger last year and had him beat Brock then. They didn't and his window is kind of over, imho.

Maybe he can develop something more complex. Undertaker did. Kane did. Nash did. But he has to offer more than just screaming and breaking things.


denverpunk - 11-9-2018 at 06:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Essentially every report about “backstage heat” for the last few years has been a load of bullshit except for Enzo.



But is that really true? I know what's "true" these days is always up for debate, but aside from Enzo, the rumors regarding the following talent having heat or being disgruntled ended up seeming to have some genuine truth to them:

- Cass
- Ryback
- Batista
- Punk
- Morrison
- Barrett
- Neville

Sure, we'll never know the real story, but in most cases I don't think OOsters take the sheets as pure gospel (except for maybe Daniel Bryan, and that's a whole other thing). It's just fun and interesting to talk about.


DKBroiler - 11-9-2018 at 07:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by denverpunk
quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
Essentially every report about “backstage heat” for the last few years has been a load of bullshit except for Enzo.



But is that really true? I know what's "true" these days is always up for debate, but aside from Enzo, the rumors regarding the following talent having heat or being disgruntled ended up seeming to have some genuine truth to them:

- Cass
- Ryback
- Batista
- Punk
- Morrison
- Barrett
- Neville

Sure, we'll never know the real story, but in most cases I don't think OOsters take the sheets as pure gospel (except for maybe Daniel Bryan, and that's a whole other thing). It's just fun and interesting to talk about.


Fair retort. I’ll actually respond to each.

Cass - He was getting a serious push and then ... poof ... gone. I’d be inclined to agree with you on this one but I’d also have to assume a lot of heat on him was likely also due to his Enzo association. Yet, agree. Clearly there was something.

Ryback - I don’t recall this being much about backstage heat but rather more about a guy with an inflated self worth who burned bridges after the fact.

Batista and Punk - Neither one of these were “backstage heat”. Batista left on his own accord, made a bunch of money, and then came back. Aside from a pissy Tweet or two there was hardly any real evidence of heat. Punk’s situation goes so far past the trivial stuff said about Braun that it really needs to be put in a different category. I mean he went to court with them. That was hardly backstage.

I have no idea about Morrison. Barrett left for movie roles. I heard an interview with him a month or two ago saying he’d be open to another run potentially but not in the near future.

Neville - I truly have no idea what happened here but if it really was that he felt misused then he’s an idiot who deserved what he got. The guy was being presented as Raw’s 2nd best heel more or less and got pissy about dropping a championship to an at that time cash machine in Enzo? It’s so ridiculous that I hope that’s just a rumor.

Anyway, I’m not saying stuff doesn’t happen or couldn’t come to a head. What I am saying is that if people think that something trivial on a one off case - like the wrist tape thing - actually causes a major shift in a push, well that’s silly.

So maybe I just have a different version of what backstage heat is. If management frowned upon me because I was consistently slacking off or disobeying orders that heat is on the employee, not the employer. Most of the latest examples, however, seem to be more of someone breaking an unwritten rule and then possibly having future plans that in no way could be proven potentially scrapped, maybe ... according to sources ... at this time.


Paddlefoot - 11-9-2018 at 07:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by denverpunkBut is that really true? I know what's "true" these days is always up for debate, but aside from Enzo, the rumors regarding the following talent having heat or being disgruntled ended up seeming to have some genuine truth to them:

- Cass
- Ryback
- Batista
- Punk
- Morrison
- Barrett
- Neville

Sure, we'll never know the real story, but in most cases I don't think OOsters take the sheets as pure gospel (except for maybe Daniel Bryan, and that's a whole other thing). It's just fun and interesting to talk about.


I'm glad you differentiated between disgruntled and heat because those are definitely two different statuses that shouldn't be conflated. Except for Cass, who openly admitted and regrets that he ended up with real heat because he was acting like such an obnoxious dick, and Morrison, who didn't know when to cut ties with his own troublemaking girlfriend in order to salvage his own career, all those other guys on your list were disgruntled past the point of return as opposed to self-sabotaging by creating the wrong sort of heat. I know that Ryback's an arrogant dickhead but I haven't seen anything from him to show that he was in actual trouble with management as opposed to just being vocally loud about his spot on the roster and the booking he was getting.

This is probably why the talent and backstagers get such a laugh out of marks and the dirtsheet clowns using words like "heat" in a completely inaccurate way because it results in too many piddly little incidents or disagreements being cast into clickbait tales of career-destroying "heat" when nothing of the sort is happening. It's kind of gone from being used appropriately for something like X-Pac "heat", where he was universally hated by the live audiences, to things that are incredibly insignificant like someone having "heat" with Vince because Vince didn't say return a hello to them backstage at RAW while he was talking to someone else. Being disgruntled is one thing but unless it gets out of control or begins to affect other talent it's really not that big a deal to anyone except the performer who's gotten pissed off or to their fans that have put them on a pedestal. Troublemaking though, of the Enzo/Cass/Melina sort? That's different because it's corrosive to the whole roster and ends up destroying story-lines the company puts time and money into developing.


First 9 - 11-9-2018 at 07:26 PM

Morisson gets mentioned because of WM27 when he gave Trish Stratus the cold shouder. Who knows what was that about but the internet christened that moment as the incident that Morisson got in management's shit list.

He main evented a ppv the month after this btw.


Paddlefoot - 11-9-2018 at 08:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Morisson gets mentioned because of WM27 when he gave Trish Stratus the cold shouder. Who knows what was that about but the internet christened that moment as the incident that Morisson got in management's shit list.

He main evented a ppv the month after this btw.


Allegedly Morrison was angry that Trish instead of Melina got added to his match with Snooki from Jersey Shore against Lay-Cool & Dolph Ziggler. To stand up for Melina, Morrison was apparently being rude as shit to Trish and Snooki which got him in trouble with the bosses. Who knows if any of this was real or not but by that time Morrison was getting regarded on the internet as being as laughable a cuck as Chris Candido because during this time frame the stories were making the rounds that Melina had let Batista bang the fuck out of her while she was still with Morrison. Six of one and a half-dozen of the other but who knows if WWE wanted a potentially embarrassing situation to develop with Morrison/Melina with him being led around by his dick by his woman the same way Candido was by Sunny in the old ECW.

Fun to consume as part of our daily internet fodder but until Morrison sets the record straight it's all just more gossip.


DKBroiler - 11-9-2018 at 09:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
quote:
Originally posted by First 9
Morisson gets mentioned because of WM27 when he gave Trish Stratus the cold shouder. Who knows what was that about but the internet christened that moment as the incident that Morisson got in management's shit list.

He main evented a ppv the month after this btw.


Allegedly Morrison was angry that Trish instead of Melina got added to his match with Snooki from Jersey Shore against Lay-Cool & Dolph Ziggler. To stand up for Melina, Morrison was apparently being rude as shit to Trish and Snooki which got him in trouble with the bosses. Who knows if any of this was real or not but by that time Morrison was getting regarded on the internet as being as laughable a cuck as Chris Candido because during this time frame the stories were making the rounds that Melina had let Batista bang the fuck out of her while she was still with Morrison. Six of one and a half-dozen of the other but who knows if WWE wanted a potentially embarrassing situation to develop with Morrison/Melina with him being led around by his dick by his woman the same way Candido was by Sunny in the old ECW.

Fun to consume as part of our daily internet fodder but until Morrison sets the record straight it's all just more gossip.


Now I remember it. I dunno man ... I kind of look at WWE in 2018 as a completely and totally different company than even 8 or so years ago. People bash corporate environments (and there are plenty of things worth bashing about them) but the best part of a corporate environment is that the boys club bullshit is usually greatly reduced.

Here is how I kind of look at WWE eras.

Pre WM
WM 1 to 9 - Hogan Era
WM 10 to 20 - HBK/Hart into Attitude Era
WM 21 to 29 - Cena Era/ PG Era
30 till now - Network Era

While each would bleed into the next a bit as I look back the Bryan WM win was pretty much the jumping off point to the modern WWE. Stuff that happened before that almost barely counts now considering that the company has grown from 3 man-children sitting around a pool into an honest to goodness worldwide juggernaut.

I’m sure petty stuff that lead to “backstage heat” in the past is a fat nothing burger today just as much as I am certain that “ribs” of yesteryear would get someone insta fired today. It’s just a different world now than in the past.


Edit for Mania Years

[Edited on 11-10-2018 by DKBroiler]


GodEatGod - 11-9-2018 at 10:09 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler

Now I remember it. I dunno man ... I kind of look at WWE in 2018 as a completely and totally different company than even 8 or so years ago. People bash corporate environments (and there are plenty of things worth bashing about them) but the best part of a corporate environment is that the boys club bullshit is usually greatly reduced.



This is I think is very much a truth that hasn't entirely filtered its way into wrestling journalism/rumorz circles. Some of them even mourn its passing, as if toxic locker rooms full of bullies and byzantine codes of behavior is a better work environment than boring corporate safety. It doesn't help that WWE and wrestlers themselves tend to lionize the 'good old days' without paying much attention to the massive warts.


Slade - 11-10-2018 at 01:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bigfatgoalie
I've also seen a rumor that Braun lost to Lesnar to get the fans behind Braun in his chase to eventually get "these hands" on Brock.


This can't be true. If true, it's pretty much the dumbest idea ever. A guy like Braun Strowman shouldn't be booked like fucking Johnny Gargano.

quote:
Originally posted by SpiNNeR72
...and I strongly suspect, given his history and the ending of RAW, that McIntyre is set to be the chosen one.


Making Drew McIntyre the chosen one would rival booking Braun Strowman like fucking Johnny Gargano as the dumbest idea ever as he's pretty much the most boring wrestler of the 21st century.

quote:
Posted by CCharger
* Netflix is ending its deal with Lucha Underground and it is expected that the company will fold


Netflix ending its deal with Lucha Underground shouldn't be the death knell of Lucha Underground. I think it will always have the support of the El Rey Network. Unfortunately, I don't think it has the resources to do Lucha Underground justice. The fourth season of the show was shorter and poorer in quality than the first three, so I would believe what lz4005 said about the budget affecting the product. If only they could steal away TNA's financial backers, they could crank out quality television for years to come (after all, people who put money into TNA clearly don't care about turning a profit - they'd make the perfect investors for Lucha Underground).


CCharger - 11-10-2018 at 04:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DKBroiler
quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
If people actually believe that Braun Strowman, one of the top-five hottest performers of the last two years, is gonna get diminished over something as stupid as showing up late or leaving the tape from his wrists on the locker-room floor then one of two things will be confirmed. One, Vince is really that crazy or, two, the dirtsheets and the IWC are that genuinely stupid to believe that a businessman (who's run a wildly successful company for the last fifty years) like Vince really is that crazy.

If Braun gets less time it will be because he's been worn down by two years non-stop of being the centerpiece in major stories, travelling, and ring-action, and he simply needs a break. It's a fuck of lot more logical than thinking the rest of the men's roster managed to get him de-pushed because their feelings got hurt by him showing up late and leaving early and giving the arena janitorial staff some extra minor cleaning up to do.

[Edited on 11/9/2018 by Paddlefoot]


Exactly. Bad knees will stop a push. Failing a drug test will stop a push. Being HABITUALLY late or lazy will stop a push. If he has shown a pattern of showing up late and management already warned him about it that’s one thing, but in what world would any company stop a cash cow on a whim without a warning?

Not picking up your wrist tape or accidentally shaking someone’s hand too hard or similar nonsense is just ... well ... nonsense.

It’s 2018. Braun is a cash cow who obliterates everyone on the roster who isn’t Lesnar or Roman. Essentially every report about “backstage heat” for the last few years has been a load of bullshit except for Enzo.

It staggers my brain daily that some of you guys listen to the Meltzer’s of the world. He’s throwing shit against the wall. Sometimes he’ll be right, and when he isn’t he can fall back on vagueries like “sources”. Meanwhile I get called an idiot for sticking to my overall hypothesis of “the McMahon family really likes money” and just follow the clues from there.

DKBroiler : WWE :: Sean Hannity : Trump Administration


GodEatGod - 11-10-2018 at 07:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Slade

Making Drew McIntyre the chosen one would rival booking Braun Strowman like fucking Johnny Gargano as the dumbest idea ever as he's pretty much the most boring wrestler of the 21st century.




Paddlefoot - 11-10-2018 at 10:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
This is I think is very much a truth that hasn't entirely filtered its way into wrestling journalism/rumorz circles. Some of them even mourn its passing, as if toxic locker rooms full of bullies and byzantine codes of behavior is a better work environment than boring corporate safety. It doesn't help that WWE and wrestlers themselves tend to lionize the 'good old days' without paying much attention to the massive warts.


Stone Cold had indy wrestler WALTER on his podcast and the kid said that the locker-room is now vastly different today when it comes to partying after a show. He said most of the guys don't do anything more severe than having a few beers together and that's about it. He also said that the talent are far more likely now to use cannibis and other more healthy alternatives than opioids when it comes to pain control for injuries, and if they're able to do that it also mean that the promos are no longer taking failed tests for pot use as some kind of a reason to punish the users. It's not that behaviour is being enforced from above but more that the new breed is much more health conscious than the previous generations were. IMO there's also no way these younger guys weren't influenced by the epidemic of deaths from overdoses and suicides of wrestlers from the 1980's and 90's - obviously they were badly spooked by the incessant deaths and are trying to live cleaner in order to avoid the same fate. Obviously there'll probably be no way to end the concussion problems given the nature of in-ring activity but there really is no reason anymore to continue the "traditional" insanity that was going on with really bad alcohol and drug abuse that the previous generation was engaging in.

As for Stone Cold himself he said he's been working out like crazy, doing DDP Yoga, and has even been alcohol-free for several weeks straight now. He says he's feeling great as a result. No more Steveweisers, keggers, stein-hoists, or beer-blasts at the Broken Skull Ranch? Cats and dogs living together? Girls will be boys and boys will be girls? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?


Flash - 11-11-2018 at 01:36 AM

I don't see being late, bailing early as being the same as not shaking someone's hand...

If I'm looking at someone who is chronically late I think it speaks to dependability; If "you" can't show up to your job you've got now on time and are itching to get out the door at the first chance you get I think it's fair to wonder, and this isn't specific to Braun, just how committed one is. I mean how would it be once the WWE machine is behind you and you're jumping from one appearance after another; or as much as the WWE probably shouldn't be rewriting shows on the fly what if you're needed for a pre-tape or something?

Now in saying that I do think that the WWE's business approach of hurry up and wait... ie we want you in the building between these hours is probably a bit dumb considering how much time all these folks are on the road; you'd think being a bit more organized and considerate to their time as well would be great... But it isn't; and everyone knows it so if you want to get ahead in the game you've gotta play by their rules sometimes; and if that means being on time then so be it.


janerd75 - 11-11-2018 at 03:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot

As for Stone Cold himself he said he's been working out like crazy, doing DDP Yoga, and has even been alcohol-free for several weeks straight now. He says he's feeling great as a result. No more Steveweisers, keggers, stein-hoists, or beer-blasts at the Broken Skull Ranch? Cats and dogs living together? Girls will be boys and boys will be girls? Has the world gone topsy-turvy?


Let's, uh, just pump the brakes a bit, okay? I mean, if an Esteemed Redneck In Good Standing can't tune the ol' lady up for getting out of line every once in a while, then what kind of a chance do the rest of us have against #WOMYN? Heed my warning, fellas. Give 'em an inch... and they'll take half.

This message has been brought to you by The Concerned Misogymnasts @ Jancel, Inc.


Ortonmustdie - 11-11-2018 at 05:28 AM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
Give 'em an inch... and they'll take half.




I swore off clicking your links a while ago, but I clicked that one half-expecting John Wayne Bobbit porn....

....I'm a little disappointed, Janard.


Paddlefoot - 11-11-2018 at 09:07 PM

* it's now reported that Alexa Bliss took "more than one" concussion in too short a period of time; as such her time as a manager, or any other non-wrestling role, will be considered indefinite until WWE is confident that she'll be able perform in-ring again without risking further cranial injuries