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OOfficial Discussion Thread for: SmackDown (September 12, 2017)
OORick - 9-12-2017 at 10:57 PM

Tonight on SmackDown: three title matches, and a rare TV appearance by Vince McMahon... what more can you ask for, you greedy bastards?

Dubbed "Sin City SmackDown," tonight's show in Las Vegas is acting as a bit of a free-per-view highspot in the middle of a lengthy 7 week delay between SD PPVs... the Usos defending their tag titles against the New Day in a Sin City Streetfight stands to be tonight's stand-out match, given the added stip and the quality of preceding matches between the teams... Naomi is also receiving her obligatory rematch for the Women's Title, against Natalya, all while Carmella (and Ellsworth) lurks with the MitB Briefcase... and as a "make good," AJ Styles will defend his US Title against Tye Dillenger, making up for when Baron Corbin ruined Dillenger's previous attempt to answer the US Open Challenge (Corbin is now Styles' likely challenger at the next PPV)...

And on the non-wrestling side, Vince McMahon is showing up to deal with his son Shane... last week, Shane attacked Kevin Owens, and Owens response was to promise he would lawyer up and "own" SmackDown... as a band-aid, Vince suspended Shane from his GM duties, and said he would show up in person tonight to patch things up more permanently... nothing would please me more than to have Vince forced to make Kevin Owens the GM of SD, in exchange for Owens signing a waiver that prevents him from suing WWE, the McMahons, or any affiliated parties over anything to do with Shane...

I don't know how long you run with it, but it's a stone cold cinch that Kevin Owens enacting a hedonistic, hubris-laden, and hilarious agenda of shennanigans would make for quite a bit of entertaining TV... but in the end, the story is still heading towards Owens vs. Shane, and sooner than later...

The rest: Shinsuke Nakamura earned another shot at Jinder Mahal's WWE Title, by beating Randy Orton last week... Orton vs. Rusev may or may not still be a thing.... WGTT v2.0 (Chad Gable and Shelton Benjamin) are just getting started, and Dolph Ziggler's testing out a soft reboot; both fresh acts could stand for a quickie segment on tonight's show, just to keep momentum rolling... and Breezango are always welcome to bring their hijinx to my TV, though some sense that we're close to revealing their mystery attackers from 17 months ago would be even more welcome...

And if you haven't been keeping up, the Mae Young Classic replaces "205 Live" tonight on the WWE Network, immediately following SD... in addition to the finals of the tournament (MMA's Shayna Baszler vs. Kairi Sane), other women from the field of 32 will be on hand to provide an additional undercard match or two... for more on this, be sure to check out our pre-existing thread!

That is all. End communication....

The flOOr is yours, OO Nation. Don't wait till after 11pm to post, either. Pre-show previewing and prognosticating is certainly welcome. So discuss, debate, and rate!


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2017 at 12:20 AM

Owens/Ziggles alliance? That could be interesting.


janerd75 - 9-13-2017 at 12:43 AM

Flyin' blind here. So did Vince come out with Punk yet or payoff that whole "Benoit killed his family" angle by showing up with the Crippler next to him? A/C-less, power-outaged, inebriated minds want to know!!!


Cherokee Jack - 9-13-2017 at 01:35 AM

This Ziggler promo is really hammering home how against using the word "wrestling" WWE is.

"At some point that bell rings and the PERFORMER has to COMPETE..."

"This SUPERSTAR can't hold a candle to my ATHLETIC ABILITY..."

His entire deal now is "all these gimmicks, and the fans' obsession with them, are dumb, wrestling is what matters and I'm the best at that," and yet he never says the word.


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2017 at 02:03 AM

Good ending for a nondescript evening. Congrats to Vince for getting busted open the hard way. The only thing better would have been a pop-up powerbomb on Steph.


bigfatgoalie - 9-13-2017 at 02:21 AM

Owens 3:16 says sorry aboot that buddy!!!


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2017 at 02:28 AM

Nice 'Murika moment too with the fan who yelled at Vince "call the president and have him (Owens) deported!".


janerd75 - 9-13-2017 at 03:44 AM

So you're telling me I missed the greatest SD ever?



ETA: The Day The Canadians Stopped Saying I'm Soory.



[Edited on 9-13-2017 by janerd75]


Flash - 9-13-2017 at 04:51 AM

Curious if this puts the Vince doesn't like Owens because Dunn buries him constantly rumours to rest... I mean a HITC match against Shane is in Vince's world a pretty big deal still, and for Vince to come out and take a beating really says something as they could have done other stuff... I mean even a Vince sighting is pretty rare these days, never mind getting busted open.

With Steph on hand I wonder if we get HHH poking his nose in there somewhere; and if this could spiral off into a bigger story down the line... a face Owens could still be pretty damned good, and he's front and centre enough about his kid, and Zoo's and even his path to the WWE that stuff like that would make for an easy enough grounds for a likeable dad going toe to toe with the evil "corporate" side of the WWE.

Man; I wish the WWE would turn Reigns... I know he'd then be cheered, but the whole real life fans versus Reigns bit would set him up so much as a mega heel that it would elevate guys like Owens facing him.


Matte - 9-13-2017 at 05:02 AM

Man, that headbutt was brutal. Almost uncomfortably so.


anglefan85 - 9-13-2017 at 05:14 AM

Say what you will about Vince, but the man has no issues in putting himself in situations like this to get talent over


Flash - 9-13-2017 at 05:25 AM

Dude's 72; and you just know he probably told Owens backstage that if he went easy on him he'd be fired...


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2017 at 05:28 AM

Backstage Vince yells out "I've got a new favourite Kevin! Let's beat up the old one!". And then Owens pins Dunn's arms behind his back while Vince starts punching Bukukky in the stomach as hard as he can.

[Edited on 9/13/2017 by Paddlefoot]


rranddm - 9-13-2017 at 05:28 AM

Man, that was a squash on Vince. I'm willing to bet one of Shanes kids passes him the brass knucks because KO hurt popop.


janerd75 - 9-13-2017 at 05:30 AM

Owens has the skill of a surgeon to pull off a nutter like that without breaking the Old Man's nose. And kudos to Vince for not flinching and taking the shot square. But holy shit, Kev, that aim. Hurricane Golly!

quote:
Originally posted by Paddlefoot
Backstage Vince yells out "I've got a new favourite Kevin! Let's beat up the old one!". And then Owens pins Dunn's arms behind his back while Vince starts punching Bukukky in the stomach as hard as he can.



CATA-FITE!!!

[Edited on 9-13-2017 by janerd75]


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2017 at 05:47 AM

I want to work for WWE. Even for just a day and even if all that I get to do is sit there while Old Man Vince shoots elastic bands at my head from three feet away for eight hours straight.


Count Zero - 9-13-2017 at 07:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Man, that headbutt was brutal. Almost uncomfortably so.
My thoughts, in live-time.

Like, that was just an ugly ending. I 'get' it, but I'm past the point where I like seeing somebody's grandpa eat a Zinedine Frenchguy Headbutt. Then the extra beatings after that were even more disconcerting. I don't even like Vince that much! I just don't like seeing old people get beat up.


CCharger - 9-13-2017 at 07:37 PM

Oh, stop the pearl clutching.

Vince, even at 72, could kick the asses of the majority of posters on this board.

I thought the angle was outstanding.


Matte - 9-13-2017 at 08:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Oh, stop the pearl clutching.

Vince, even at 72, could kick the asses of the majority of posters on this board.

I thought the angle was outstanding.

I also thought the angle was outstanding.

I'm not suggesting that Vince isn't tough and that's why he shouldn't take a legit headbutt. By all accounts Benoit was pretty tough. Shibata was pretty tough. Bryan was pretty tough. Being tough, however, doesn't mean that your brain is no longer vulnerable to damage from blunt force.

Again, I thought the segment was great. It made Owens seem like a total threat. He beat the hell out of the owner of the company in very convincing fashion. I just wince a bit seeing unprotected skull-bashing. That's all.


Caesar guy - 9-13-2017 at 08:23 PM

Paddlefoot, not sure if KO would have been able to pop up power bomb Steph in that outfit. The only thing that could pop up was already in my shorts doing so.


Caesar guy - 9-13-2017 at 08:24 PM

I know I recognize him, but the first guy out in the suit that was bald, who was that? First thought was Val Venus but the camera never stayed on him long enough for me to tell.


Matte - 9-13-2017 at 08:27 PM

Was it Adam Pearce?


Flash - 9-13-2017 at 09:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Caesar guy
I know I recognize him, but the first guy out in the suit that was bald, who was that? First thought was Val Venus but the camera never stayed on him long enough for me to tell.


Wasn't that Joey Mercury?


Count Zero - 9-13-2017 at 11:04 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Oh, stop the pearl clutching.

Vince, even at 72, could kick the asses of the majority of posters on this board.

I thought the angle was outstanding.
In my case, it's not "pearl clutching". For as much as I enjoy watching scripted pro-etcetc, I don't like seeing "old people get beat to shit" for the sake of a storyline, when there are other more creative ways to accomplish Heel Overness. It's the opposite of Foley's Cheap Heat gimmick. "Let's beat up on an old person/woman/old woman to make this guy EEEEEVIL". It's goddamn Old People In Fridges. Jesus. I know it's not going anywhere, this isn't Shakespeare, etc etc etc. Still don't have to like it.


CCharger - 9-13-2017 at 11:13 PM

FFS, it's pro wrestling. Guys in wheel chairs get rolled off the stage. Guys in neck braces get piledriven. Women get powerbombed through tables. Guys get crucified.

Are we really going to get all upset when a healthy 72 year old - in amazing shape who could probably kick the asses of guys half his age - takes a stiffer than usual beatdown?

Also, I'd point out that Owens wasn't getting heat from beating up an "old guy". He was getting heat for beating up a legend. Same as if he was beating up Flair or Foley or even Austin.

I just think it's a silly thing to get upset about in the grand scheme of it.

As 80 year old Mae Young once told Bob Holly, "Bring it, motherfucker."


Paddlefoot - 9-13-2017 at 11:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Caesar guy
Paddlefoot, not sure if KO would have been able to pop up power bomb Steph in that outfit. The only thing that could pop up was already in my shorts doing so.


That much is certain. Poor in fashion taste but very effective in emphasizing her tig ol' bitties.


Matte - 9-13-2017 at 11:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
FFS, it's pro wrestling. Guys in wheel chairs get rolled off the stage. Guys in neck braces get piledriven. Women get powerbombed through tables. Guys get crucified.

As 80 year old Mae Young once told Bob Holly, "Bring it, motherfucker."

You're comparing fake injuries and standard bumps with blunt force to the skull. A powerbomb is different from a shoot headbutt in the same way a table bump is different from an unprotected chair to the head.


GodEatGod - 9-14-2017 at 01:16 AM

Plus, someone can be like "I don't wanna see that" and not be OFFENDED or clutching pearls. "I don't like seeing old people taking beatings" is a pretty low standard for decency (although I admit, the segment didn't particularly bother me, but I can understand how it would).


janerd75 - 9-14-2017 at 01:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
Plus, someone can be like "I don't wanna see that" and not be OFFENDED or clutching pearls. "I don't like seeing old people taking beatings" is a pretty low standard for decency (although I admit, the segment didn't particularly bother me, but I can understand how it would).



GodEatGod - 9-14-2017 at 01:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75





Paddlefoot - 9-14-2017 at 01:44 AM

Worked once with a crazy (yet oddly logical) pipefitter who said "what's wrong with beating up old people? who do you think all the shitty young people learned being shitty from in the first place?".


bigfatgoalie - 9-14-2017 at 02:43 AM

Reading this thread...is the issue an old guy took a direct shot...or that anybody took a direct shot?

I can understand not enjoying seeing a guy get his brains scrambled. Regardless of age. But if the issue is that the guy is old? WTF?


Paddlefoot - 9-14-2017 at 03:15 AM

It's WWE, not some insane Japanese promotion where they keep trying to kill each other for real.


janerd75 - 9-14-2017 at 04:24 AM

I understand the "cringe seeing the elderly go down hardway" crowd, of which I am a member. However, it's fucking Vince of the Grapefruit Clan. Motherfucker is 72 years old and is taking bloody headshots from the no chance in hell pudgy indy guy. Celebrate it for what it is while we have it. We won't get many more of these.


rranddm - 9-14-2017 at 04:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
quote:
Originally posted by Matte
Man, that headbutt was brutal. Almost uncomfortably so.
My thoughts, in live-time.

Like, that was just an ugly ending. I 'get' it, but I'm past the point where I like seeing somebody's grandpa eat a Zinedine Frenchguy Headbutt. Then the extra beatings after that were even more disconcerting. I don't even like Vince that much! I just don't like seeing old people get beat up.


Hey Zidane headbutted that guy in the sternum. The Italian flopped like a gunshot. The best part was that it was allegedly over Zidane taking exception to the flopper calling his mother "terrorist whore". Later on momma supposedly replied, "If he said that I want his balls on a stick". Talk about promo worthy


Paddlefoot - 9-14-2017 at 04:55 AM

That Italian flopping when Zidane hit him was the greatest bit of over-acting by a gutless person since Kramer & Newman got spat on by Roger McDowell.


GodEatGod - 9-14-2017 at 12:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by janerd75
I understand the "cringe seeing the elderly go down hardway" crowd, of which I am a member. However, it's fucking Vince of the Grapefruit Clan. Motherfucker is 72 years old and is taking bloody headshots from the no chance in hell pudgy indy guy. Celebrate it for what it is while we have it. We won't get many more of these.


Pretty much this. If it were some random old man or even most legends, I might have a problem with it. But it's Vince so I feel more free to enjoy it. He probably asked for an extra giant steak afterwards and then made Owens amateur wrestle him on the carpet or some shit.


CCharger - 9-14-2017 at 01:00 PM

Meltzer is reporting that Vince bladed prior to the segment and covered it in Nu-skin. Owens headbutt was only strong enough to open the cut, not concuss Vince.


janerd75 - 9-14-2017 at 03:32 PM

I choose to believe it was totally a shoot and now Owens will sit the next week or so out going through the concussion protocols after smashing his head into the brick fucking solid coconut that is Vince's skull.


Count Zero - 9-14-2017 at 05:33 PM

So if Meltzer is right, that takes a lot of the "Vince can take it!!!" factor out of the equation. Even -he- knew that taking a full-on headbutt is stupid and stupid and stupid.

So I get back to the Lazy Booking. Kevin Owens is a heel. He makes Vince say that if "A McMahon raises a hand to him, he can fight back" (spirit of the quote, if not the letter). Then Vince raises zero hands, and gets shitkicked. Somehow beating up Grandpa Vince was necessary for... what? Making him "Shane-worthy"? Did KO really need any more stank on it? He told Shane that it would've been better for his kids if he (Shane) were dead. That pretty much sets the bar. Next week, are we bringing out Shane's Wife, Marissa, for a ritual pop-up powerbomb? Just, y'know, in case the WWEUniverse haven't grasped the subtleties of KEVIN OWENS IS A DASTARDLY HEEL?

I am obviously in the minority, and I won't try prolonging the misery or anything. I just don't see what point there is to it other than SHOCK AND DISGUST!!!! and that's pretty carny. Sometimes I am reminded of the roots of wrassling and I am not fond of those times. I stay because of the flippy-floppy acrobats, not the dog-faced snake-eating geek-boy.

etpunctuatemoar.

[Edited on 9-14-2017 by Count Zero]


Matte - 9-14-2017 at 05:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero
So I get back to the Lazy Booking. Kevin Owens is a heel...Somehow beating up Grandpa Vince was necessary for... what?

I think more weight is being put on his age by some people than was intended. Yes, he's an old man and that does add a little to the gross nature of the attack, but I think the main point of the attack was Vince's job, not his age. It's not necessarily that Owens beat up old man Vince, but more so that Owens beat up owner and chairman Vince.

Back when Orton punt kicked Vince's head off, the reason it was a big deal was because it's Vincent Kennedy McMahon, dammit! Not because it's disrespectful to an elder.


Count Zero - 9-14-2017 at 06:18 PM

I can see what you're saying, Matte. It still kind of strikes me as "stunt-casting for ratings" more than "storylogic", if looked at in that light. But if -that- is the case, it ain't the first time storylogic has fallen by the wayside & I ought to be much used to that by now. Anyway, it won't matter in a few weeks when Kevin Owens is jobbing to Becky Lynch. (I make joke!!)


punkerhardcore - 9-14-2017 at 08:52 PM

Should we mention that Jinder Mahal promo? That was fucking pitiful. You could've heard a pin drop in the crowd, and rightfully so. As if it wasn't bad enough, those two nameless bozos he's stuck with made it even worse with their terrible over acting during the whole thing.

Although I thought it was funny when Jinder asked, "are you laughing?" No, mother fucker! Not a single person was making a peep!


SpiNNeR72 - 9-14-2017 at 08:53 PM

It was done because Shane isn't very good at the talking/promoting thing, that's the crux of it.


GodEatGod - 9-14-2017 at 08:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Count Zero

So I get back to the Lazy Booking. Kevin Owens is a heel. He makes Vince say that if "A McMahon raises a hand to him, he can fight back" (spirit of the quote, if not the letter). Then Vince raises zero hands, and gets shitkicked.

[Edited on 9-14-2017 by Count Zero]


I know you said 'spirit of the quote' and all, but the precise wording is actually important. Because he didn't say 'raised a hand', he said if a McMahon provoked him. Specifically provoked after Vince had said some pretty rough shit to Owens already, meaning he had already decided he was kicking Vince's ass and just wanted to cover his ass from being punished for it. Would he have done it anyway? Eh, probably. But it makes it obviously a deliberate and vindictive act rather than a mere loss of temper.

Owens' character is actually highly consistent and one of the best things in wrestling. Max Landis rightly points out, that character is a disturbed child bully. He throws temper tantrums, disassociates with rage and lashes out blindly while constantly complaining about how nothing's fair. He constantly dishes it out and can take none of it back. He is a hypocrite and a liar and a sneak, but he can also beat the living hell out of just about anyone. He's stewing and resentful and jealous. One of the reasons I think Roman had trouble drawing heat against Owens is that Roman's character is so thin while Owens is so rich - the contrast made Roman's blandness all the more stark. Magnified immensely by having Chris Jericho in the middle of it all, because nobody's better at that stuff than CJ.

[Edited on 9-14-2017 by GodEatGod]


First 9 - 9-14-2017 at 10:29 PM

He's definently one of the better written characters. When he was discussing his ideas for SD under his leadership almost every one of them had a story behind them. Firing Zayn because he'll always hate Zayn, cancelling the Fashion Files because he's previously expressed his disgust towards them, offering to do a favor to the guy whose been kicking Sami Zayn's ass, giving Byrong and Phillips shit just like he always does, etc. You can't do that with just anybody on the roster.


the goon - 9-15-2017 at 04:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CCharger
Meltzer is reporting that Vince bladed prior to the segment and covered it in Nu-skin. Owens headbutt was only strong enough to open the cut, not concuss Vince.


I was wondering if something like this was the case. The way the cut formed and looked after Vince started bleeding just kind of screamed "blade job" to me.

quote:
Originally posted by punkerhardcore
Should we mention that Jinder Mahal promo? That was fucking pitiful. You could've heard a pin drop in the crowd, and rightfully so. As if it wasn't bad enough, those two nameless bozos he's stuck with made it even worse with their terrible over acting during the whole thing.


Lost in the Vince/Owens discussion, 100% this! In the four months that Mahal has been champion, there have been zero promos or matches from him that has made me think he was deserving of his "from jobber to WWE champion" push. If the WWE is making a ton of money from the India market with him as champion than more power to them, but holy shit the guy can't drop the title fast enough for me. My main fear though is that they'll continue to try and "JBL" him into a legit champion and he holds the belt until the Royal Rumble.


Count Zero - 9-15-2017 at 08:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by GodEatGod
I know you said 'spirit of the quote' and all, but the precise wording is actually important. Because he didn't say 'raised a hand', he said if a McMahon provoked him. Specifically provoked after Vince had said some pretty rough shit to Owens already, meaning he had already decided he was kicking Vince's ass and just wanted to cover his ass from being punished for it. Would he have done it anyway? Eh, probably. But it makes it obviously a deliberate and vindictive act rather than a mere loss of temper.
Is truth, what you say. I just didn't parse it that finely, I guess. I'm used to the WWE being heavy-handed with THAT sort of thing. Maybe I didn't figure Vince would get suckered into that bad a deal? Eh. Okay, I 'get' it more than I got it before. You are all very nice for being patient with me.